The path to net zero in transport

Yesterday the UK government published its 220 page document on how it wishes to transform the way we and our goods get about. At its heart was a contradiction. The early paragraphs promise us “it’s not about stopping people doing things: it’s about doing the same things differently. We will still drive on improved roads, but only in zero emission cars”. The vision is of keeping the flexibility of personal road transport with that still be the dominant way of getting about. There will also be new planes to offer good value flights with carbon free fuels so no need to rein in the holidays abroad.

Whoever wrote that bit did not bother to order a rewrite of the rest of the document. A bit further on we are told the opposite. “We must make public transport, cycling and walking the natural first choice for all who can take it”. We are offered a world of car sharing, car clubs and much less car use, alongside a target that “half of all journeys in towns and cities” are to be walking or cycling by 2030. The plan confirms their wish to end all new diesel and petrol van and car sales from 2030, all fossil fuel lighter HGVs from 2035 and the rest from 2040.

In some areas under direct government control the plan lacks the same crusading energy. We are only offered a net zero railway by 2050, even though it is already heavily electrified. There will still be diesel trains in 2039. We are promised a railfreight growth target which could relieve our main roads and help a great deal in many ways, but there is no agreed one in this document from the government and the railway , currently effectively nationalised. There is no date yet decided for the phase out of fossil fuel buses, with non fossil fuel fleets still at the demonstration city and project stage.

We are told that “We will continue to support demand for zero emissions vehicles through a a (sic) package of financial and non financial incentives”. Given the millions of vehicles they want replaced that could prove very costly.

I am all in favour of more freight going by rail. That requires work on smaller track bypasses and extensions, new sidings and branch lines into industrial parks, and new depots. I am all in favour of new electric cars and vans once they are seen by more of the public as better than the diesel and petrol versions and are attractively priced by the market so they fly off the shelves. More work is needed on this strategy, with more reassurance about what its aims are. Transport is crucial to our lives, central to our food and goods supply, crucial to services provided to us and vital for many of our jobs. People will want to know the change planned does not make these things worse for us.

239 Comments

  1. Mark B
    July 15, 2021

    Good morning.

    First we must ask – “What is ‘Net Zero’ ?”

    To be ‘Net’ there must be a ‘Gross’. Does that mean that there will be ‘some’ greenhouse gas emission’s allowed ? And if so, what and by whom ?

    The plan to me is simple. It is to reduce peoples reliance on the car and restrict our ability to move around independently, and not saving the planet. Admittedly the use of the car has grown exponentially since the 1950’s, with cars becoming both cheaper and more reliable, and therefore more numerous. But to many living in rural areas the car is very much an essential part of life. They cannot just jump on a bus, tube or train and go to their local shops and services. What about those people ? Or what about those with limited mobility ?

    It seems to me that only the very rich and the elites will benefit from this whilst the rest of us will be corralled into large towns and cities. Not very inclusive is it !

    1. J Bush
      July 15, 2021

      +1

      I live in a rural area and need a car to get about. I certainly can’t afford his alternative car and even if I could, where would I recharge it?

      The nearest rail station is in a town, over 5 miles away and where I do my weekly shop. The nearest bus service is about 1½ miles away and runs once an hour, so even for a young fit person hauling a weekly shop that distance home, is a bit of a tall order. However, I am no longer a ‘spring chicken’ and have been waiting for a hip replacement for over 2 years. The knee on the same leg keeps dislocating so walking even a 100 yards is not possible, even with the aid of a stick. Cycle? I can’t even lift a leg over the cross bar! 🙂 I am also aware I will have to live with what my children call my ‘dodgy scaffolding’. And I am just one of a substantial number of the population in not dissimilar situations. Just how does this government think we are supposed to realistically get about in his Utopian World?

      The only thing this government has proved, is its myopic ignorance and crass stupidity, also see virus hyperbole and hypocrisy e.g. G7 etc and the NI debacle. The country desperately needs adults with knowledge and experience of the Real World to take over and return us to sanity.

    2. glen cullen
      July 15, 2021

      And the EUs and Elites answer to achieving net zero is ‘carbon trading’ and ‘plating trees’ in South America
      During covid there was a period of 12 mths with almost no car/air travel but the CO2 level didn’t and hasn’t decrease….maybe car/air transport has nothing to do with the cycle and alleged increase in CO2
      We seem to be jumping on a media agenda

    3. Bryan Harris
      July 15, 2021

      @Mark B

      Does that mean that there will be ‘some’ greenhouse gas emission’s allowed ?

      That goes without saying – The well heeled and political elite will of course have to continue to zip around the world in luxury simply to tell us what we should be doing.

      Don’t forget the golden rule: “Do as I say, not as I do”

    4. Dave Andrews
      July 15, 2021

      How to achieve net zero.

      Net positive for the executive (and climate change scientists and their conferences).

      Net negative for the proletariat.

    5. Andy
      July 15, 2021

      Electric cars work in the country too. Who knew?

      1. NickC
        July 15, 2021

        But no better than in the city, Andy. Which is not very well. So you’ll need a petrol car for those long trips and maybe a battery car for short commuting and shopping. But that means you’ll have to buy an EU toaster to have the electricity to charge your car!!

      2. lifelogic
        July 15, 2021

        So long as you do not go too far that is. Still far more expensive than keeping your old car and they creates more CO2 too if you buy one that causes one to be built. Useless at towing too. Allow for new battery after 7 years and range declining by the year and best not use the heater take a hot water bottle perhaps. So why would you?

        1. Original Richard
          July 15, 2021

          Lifelogic : “So why would you?”

          I guess you mean “why would you buy an EV?”

          Because the government will make sure that EVs will become the only vehicle of any practical use through what they describe as “non financial incentives”, such as where and when and for how long you can drive a fossil fuel vehicle.

    6. The other Christine
      July 15, 2021

      Hear, hear. All part of The Plan. “You will own nothing and you will be happy”.

    7. Ian Wragg
      July 15, 2021

      The government would like a total electrified future. This fits in with smart meters and dynamic pricing.
      They would have total control by switching off supply or making peak pricing unaffordable.
      They can’t do it with gas as it is too dangerous.
      Get rid of cash and we have authoritarian government.
      These people need voting out of power.

      1. Fedupsoutherner
        July 15, 2021

        Ian, Oh great. so they decide to turn off your electricity when you go to plug in your car. What I want to know is what happens when we have a storm and thousands of homes are without power? Answers on a post card please.

        1. Original Richard
          July 15, 2021

          Fedupsoutherner :

          The plan includes taking power FROM car batteries of cars plugged in overnight if the power generated by the wind turbines is insufficient to power critical users, such as hospitals.

          The really clever bit is that through smart meters selected individuals will not be affected.

        2. APL
          July 16, 2021

          Fedupsoutherner: “What I want to know is what happens when we have a storm and thousands of homes are without power?”

          What happens when you are in your car on the motorway, and it’s snowing and the traffic stops and you get stuck for eight or ten hours without the ability to run your car engine to heat the passenger compartment, because the battery will shut down in the extreme cold.

      2. John C.
        July 15, 2021

        Not easy when all the main parties are vying to be the most green.
        Behind all this are the increasingly crowded roads brought about by overpopulation. This really has nothing to do with green policies, but is an attempt to make car ownership unaffordable, and to get the hoi polloi onto bikes or buses. If you live in a remote spot, well, tough is the attitude. If you’re old and cannot walk or cycle far, well, tough. It’s an inhuman policy, and even worse by being disguised as something “virtuous”.

      3. acorn
        July 15, 2021

        So who are you going to vote for at the next General Election? It will be for the Conservative Party (CP) won’t it? Even though comments on this site say the CP is following a Marxists agenda? Not that there is any evidence in comments on this site, that there is any understanding of what Marxism actual is.

        I would like to know just how many commenters on this site; that accuse this government of having “… myopic ignorance and crass stupidity”, are dependent on this government for the majority of their income from the DWP/HMRC or other government agency.

        1. dixie
          July 16, 2021

          @Acorn – So what is Marxism actually? be careful now, you can only offer the one and true version …

          Whilst considering your answer please make sure your answer is both complete and correct, unlike your comment on income – the HMRC taketh, they do not giveth, at best they might returneth.

          For that matter, the state pension is for many dependent on what they has contributed over their working life, so also not a gift.

  2. lifelogic
    July 15, 2021

    The government see a bit worried about the politics of footballers and taking the knee. Wait until the public realise what the mad new zero agenda is. To me it is a moral duty to boo footballers who take the knee to Marxism.

    The current global average temperature is below that of 1983, this despite the 38 years of slightly increasing CO2 concentrations.

    The solutions they push to reduce CO2 do not really work even in CO2 terms to any significant degree anyway.

    As Feynman puts it:- “It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t make any difference how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is. If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.”

    1. Nig l
      July 15, 2021

      That you weave in Marxism to justify your agenda and as an excuse to hoo them indicates how ‘nasty’ and out of touch (again) you are.

      For those footballers and many more the Marxism side was left in the station a long time ago.

      1. NickC
        July 15, 2021

        You think BLM isn’t marxist, Nig1?

        1. X-Tory
          July 15, 2021

          Not only is the BLM organisation clearly marxist, but the slogan “Black Lives Matter” implies that White lives do NOT matter, and so this is clearly racist. So unless you think that anti-white racism is now acceptable, it is surely your duty to oppose BLM and the taking the knee gesture which supports them.

      2. lifelogic
        July 15, 2021

        They can kneel to BLM if they want Marxism and to defund the police, but I can boo their stupidity when they do and Boris can criticise me for booing but he is clearly wrong. It is surely a more duty to boo them until they stop.

      3. Mark
        July 15, 2021

        Some of the footballers are quite explicit in supporting BLM. Tyrone Mings attended one of their demonstrations, after which he said, “I make no apologies for standing up for what I believe in.” He wears his heart on his face covering.

    2. hefner
      July 15, 2021

      What is your reference for 1983 being the warmest year? As a Richard Feynman devotee you must have such information at the ready.

      1. lifelogic
        July 15, 2021

        UAH Satellite measurements lower atmosphere global V6.

        1. hefner
          July 15, 2021

          These results stop in 2015. Then 1983 is not warmer than 2015 in Fig.3, same in Fig.6. And the decrease in stratospheric temperature shown in Fig.6 (the green LS curve) is quite consistent with a tropospheric warming. As for the TP (tropopause) curve, higher in 1983 than in 2015, it shows that the tropopause has shifted upward (something obvious given the very wide weight function of the microwave MSU/AMSU channels that Roy Spencer uses, see Fig.7) again in agreement with a tropospheric warming).

          You might want to read the latest Roy Spencer’s blog of June 21 and look at the figure there: is 1983 warmer than mid-2020-mid-2021?

    3. oldtimer
      July 15, 2021

      Exactly. If you have not already come across Dr Steven E Coonin’s “Unsettled?”, his book examining in a factual and dispassionate way, the “science” behind the global warming et al may I recommend it to you. He looks at the evidence published by the IPCC and others to tests the claims made and finds it wanting. In short, ignorance reigns, not certainty. He finds no justification for the extreme measures now proposed.

      1. hefner
        July 15, 2021

        Oldtimer, thanks for the tip. I’ll try to find Coonin’s book.

      2. lifelogic
        July 15, 2021

        He is right it is a political/religious movement socialism in essence.

    4. lifelogic
      July 15, 2021

      “We will still drive on improved roads, but only in zero emission cars”. Sure but the is no such thing as a zero emission car they are emissions elsewhere cars they have to be manufactured and need charging. Even tyres use loads of oil to manufacture.

      Cycling is also far from zero emission it is fuelled by extra food intake. If five people cycle say London to Manchester they produce far more CO2 (and some methane) from this extra food production, its packaging, processing, transport, fertilisers, harvesting, butchery and cooking than they would ever have done going together in an efficient car. In the car they would not need hotels, a rest and hot showers on arrival and could read, work or talk on route. Steak, chips and a bottle of wine is not a very inefficient form of fuel. Plus their journey will be about 20 times more dangerous than by car so more hospitals beds and staff required.

      So why are the government so pro cycling exactly, walking is about 3 to 4 times worse in such food emissions per mile. Plus hips, knees and ankle joints do wear out and we have rather long waiting lists for such operations.

      1. hefner
        July 15, 2021

        So what’s your advice Dr Lifelogic? Should I stay in bed all day long?

        1. NickC
          July 15, 2021

          No, Hefner, my advice is to ignore the CAGW hoax.

          1. lifelogic
            July 17, 2021

            Exactly.

    5. lifelogic
      July 15, 2021

      Douglas Murray is right as usual today in the Telegraph.

      Britain is sleepwalking into a state of endless Covid tyranny.
      While the US fights for freedom, we risk turning into a land of ID cards and endless mask mandates.

      1. Hat man
        July 15, 2021

        Yes, it was good to see this much-touted philosophical celebrity finally expressing a view on the Covid subject. I wonder where he’s been for the past 16 months.

    6. lifelogic
      July 15, 2021

      700 staff off work at the Nissan plant after being pinged by track and trace – it must be doing wonders for UK productivity rate and the UK’s ability to compete. But not nearly as damaging as the insane net zero soon will be.

      I really do not want Henry Dimbleby, the fast food chain operator telling everyone what to eat and suggesting vegetable as NHS “prescriptions”. Looking at the pictures he looks about a couple of stone over weight himself (as does Boris) this rather negates their message. Yet more “do as I say not as I do” it seems.

      1. Fedupsoutherner
        July 15, 2021

        L/L Yeah, hubby saw the fattest doctor yesterday and when she was asking about his lifestyle he felt like saying “What about yours?” Hubby is only 10st 4lb and at 74 years of age is pretty fit walking on average 12000 steps a day. Alcohol only at weekends or socialising. Some of these NHS workers need a lesson from us.

    7. MiC
      July 15, 2021

      And your guesses and fantasies disagree with all credible, properly-researched data.

      The experiment is the Earth, under what mankind is doing to it, and the results are flooding in thick and fast now.

      1. NickC
        July 15, 2021

        Does that include the “credible” GCMs, Martin? You know, the models that tune out natural warming in order to “prove” the warming is all man-made. Has anybody pointed out to you that’s a circular argument? And since when did computer runs become data? Or do you just think what you’re told provided it’s on the BBC?

        1. hefner
          July 15, 2021

          No, you did not get it. What these GCM hindcast experiments did was not to turn off natural warming (by twitching the temperatures themselves) but turn off the increase in CO2 observed since the ‘70s. Then GCMs started from 1970 initial conditions were run with the 1970 CO2 concentration kept fixed for 50 years, or run with the CO2 concentration (the one observed at MLO) updated every week (I think, but it might be every month) or for the most recent experiment with whatever explicit representation of the CO2 cycle that some models have now included. Unfortunately I do not think this very last set of experiments is public yet. It might appear in the next IPCC WG1 report. Stay tuned.
          The huge advantage of these experiments is that they can be compared to meteorological observations and analyses.

          You might argue as some have already done that keeping CO2 at its 1970 value is unrealistic as there might be some naturally-induced increase in CO2 concentration. Problem is very few solutions exist to define how such a natural background CO2 concentration would have behaved in the absence of anthropogenic CO2. So the fixed 1970 CO2 is likely to provide the minimum set of temperatures, the observed CO2 allows to see how the models behave (all show temperature increases, but differ in some important features like locations and durations of droughts, heat waves, storms, …).

          And you know what, doing this type of work looks much more fun than the type of stunted thoughts you appear so keen on displaying time and time again. But keep the ‘good’ work: from your half-thought musings, it is always possible to explain why you might not be right and bring more proper information. So thank you NickC (and I mean it).

      2. Micky Taking
        July 15, 2021

        we could start with welcoming a predator on humans, you know – many more communist leaders, western warmongers, mad fanatic religious leaders, release the serial killers, stop making vaccines available. Some governments manage it as an intended consequence of their actions…

      3. lifelogic
        July 15, 2021

        Yes but not results that support the alarmist position.

        1. MiC
          July 16, 2021

          Are the people terribly worried by the hundreds missing in the unprecedented floods in Germany “alarmist”?

          Or the bereaved from the victims of the crucible in Canada etc.?

          I think that you should choose your words more sensitively.

          1. Peter2
            July 16, 2021

            MiC
            Whilst it is very sad for those involved who have been injured or died in the two examples you mention, it is worth remembering that deaths from weather events have fallen by a remarkable 90% since 1900 (to 2010) despite a 4 fold rise in world population.

          2. dixie
            July 16, 2021

            The floods are unprecedented, Germany had flood disasters in 93/4, 95, 97, 2002, 2013, 2015 at the least.
            Exaggeration and lies are the hallmarks of the AGW alarmists which is why their credibility is in gutter and they desperately latch onto any natural disaster and take it for their own.
            You should choose your words more wisely.

          3. dixie
            July 16, 2021

            The floods are not unprecedented

    8. DavidJ
      July 15, 2021

      +1

  3. Nig l
    July 15, 2021

    And there is land available for all railway spurs not to mention planning and purchasing?

    I don’t think so.

    As for the rest no idea about cost/payment/ technology, typical Boris waffle and B.S.

    The town bit maybe but who goes into town much, not me. I can just see senior citizens cycling or walking 3 or 4 miles, not.

    Great speech yesterday. Appeasement. Sums up everything this jelly spined government does with a good disease of hubris and spin.

    1. lifelogic
      July 15, 2021

      +1

    2. NickC
      July 15, 2021

      Nig1, If land can be compulsorily acquired for something as useless as HS2, I’m sure it can be made available for improving local rail traffic. In any case, underground systems for the major cities would be a far better use of our grandchildren’s money than HS2.

  4. DOM
    July 15, 2021

    Only the voter can destroy the two main party parasites and their vile leaders to stop this descent into a Socialist abyss of command, imposition and dictatorial action of a State that has become a direct threat to our world, our lives and our freedoms

    This is no longer about capture politics (though the Tory party is now completely controlled by the race lobby) green issues, diversity fascism, tolerance, racism (and not a white phenomena) and all the other progressive poison we’ve had to tolerate since 1997 but about the construction of a State determined to smash our freedoms and impose itself on every aspect of our daily lives

    We can only hope that the electorate will eventually twig when the tax bill arrives and I can only hope that they smash the Tory-Labour construct that has destroyed our once great country, its values and our fundamental nature

    1. Everhopeful
      July 15, 2021

      They are busily doing away with democracy.

      1. Everhopeful
        July 15, 2021

        No voting soon I bet.

    2. GilesB
      July 15, 2021

      A Conservative government should be about maintaining, and indeed increasing, freedoms not telling people what they can and cannot do.

      It will not work.

      The backlash against this vicious authoritarian regime will make the campaign to leave the EU look like a mild tut at the vicar’s tea party over who spilt the milk.

      A true blue party will arise against this green nonsense.

    3. hefner
      July 15, 2021

      Big words, as usual, but you would be a bit more credible if you were calling for a change in the voting system. Without it we are stuck with ConLab(Lib) for ever.

      1. NickC
        July 15, 2021

        Are you about to join the Heritage party or UKIP, Hefner?

      2. Mark
        July 16, 2021

        No. The most efficient way to get rid of a stale party is under FPTP. Check the history.

        1. hefner
          July 16, 2021

          That’s a very limited British view of history: Whether one likes him or not is another story, but in France Macron and his EnMarche party wiped both the Republicain Party and the Socialist Party in one go in 2017. Please give details how you expect FPTP to be the most efficient way to get rid of a stale party. Then explain how in the 2019 European elections the UK TBP was able to get the majority without FPTP.
          Thank you in advance.

          1. Mark
            July 16, 2021

            TBP never got a majority – only the largest number of seats: under PR other parties could gang up to exclude it from government. But it might have had a landslide majority of seats at its peak polling under FPTP when the Tories were on 18% and Labour on 20% as May was ousted. The UK is not the only example of FPTP killing off parties. It’s happened twice in Canada in recent decades.

    4. David Cooper
      July 15, 2021

      They will need to twig long before then. How might they react to the succinct message “your political elite want to make you cold, poor, hungry, dirty, immobile, bored and miserable”, and who might be best able to deliver that message?

      1. Micky Taking
        July 15, 2021

        do you really need help with that?

      2. Fedupsoutherner
        July 15, 2021

        I know the answer to that Dave C.

    5. DavidJ
      July 15, 2021

      Well said Dom.

    6. John C.
      July 15, 2021

      The March to the Left aims to introduce socialism, which is essentially rule by the State, and is the next stop to total dictatorship. We are well on the journey now, in fact, a couple of stops away.

  5. Nig l
    July 15, 2021

    And in other news, zero leadership on post lockdown, if three haven’t worked a fourth won’t. We need an alternative, like live with it, personal responsibility etc. No surprise use back door I.d. Cards are being worked into our psyche via ‘passports’. Oh yes pubs etc are going to turn away custom if you haven’t got one and there will not be a blizzard of fraud.

    So I turn up with my Covid passport, unless I also have photographic evidence, real passport, driving licence, I could have ‘borrowed; my Covid one for a friend. And thirty thousand going to a football match are going to be checked?

    Your government is spouting utter boleaux.

    1. Dave Andrews
      July 15, 2021

      Right now cases are increasing. How come, since everyone is being “safe” by wearing face coverings in shops and on public transport?
      What would be a big help is for the public to be told how the virus is being spread, so they can mitigate that risk. I begin to wonder whether for all the expert virologists, epidemiologists and public health professors, in reality they haven’t a clue.

      1. J Bush
        July 15, 2021

        I strongly suspect there is no increase in the virus spread, but testing school children twice a week,using a flawed process resulting in false positives is giving Johnson’s mob the number of ‘cases’ needed to justify their claim.

        If the virus was mutating as dangerously as they claim, why isn’t this reflected in hospitalisations and deaths?

        1. Fedupsoutherner
          July 15, 2021

          J Bush. Apparently school children have been adding orange juice to their test and coming up with a positive result so they get 10 days off. Who would have thought?

      2. Richard II
        July 15, 2021

        What would be an even bigger help, Dave Andrews, would be if the public woke up to the fact that the so-called ‘cases’ aren’t cases of anything. They’re just positive lab results using the discredited PCR test that even the WHO expressed serious doubts about back in January. The false positive rate is massive, especially in the summer when real respiratory virus infection incidence is low. But try and get the Daily Telegraph to print that, let alone the Guardian!

        I’d also point out, with regards to what you say, that many doctors, virologist and other scientists have a lot more than a ‘clue’ as to what’s going on. They include Germany’s Dr Wolfgang Wodarg who was on an EU committee which bust open the swine flu scam, last time this was tried on. But there’s zero chance they would be allowed anywhere near mainstream media now.

    2. No Longer Anonymous
      July 15, 2021

      I am never EVER going to isolate from my Mum and my brother nor any of my friends ever again. Everyone I know says the same.

      Boris is going to have to send a lot of his voters to prison if he tries it on again.

    3. a-tracy
      July 15, 2021

      Nig1. The bigger problem is what happens if you do go to a pub or to a venue theatre etc. You were nowhere near a person that 2-3 days later tests positive but the pub owner contacts you and tells you to isolate because you were in that pub during the same hour the other person was you have to isolate 10 days; Is the pub is shut down or not? – Who covers all their wages? Do you get SSP/furlough? How does your small employer cope, this is more onerous than during the entire lockdown period? Do all government workers get full pay whilst self-isolating if so this isn’t going to trouble the decision makers?

      It is weird, if someone comes in from abroad they have to have a test to travel, they then have to isolate 10 days with a test on day 2 and 8 or pay extra for a test on day 5 to release early – but the family they live with – none of them have to isolate as well?

      An entire class is isolated even if the child with a positive test has no symptoms, does that child’s whole family have to isolate – sisters, brothers, both parents?

      What if a fellow worker comes into your workplace, you all sit 2m away/screens up, wear masks when you are walking around, they casually tell you they were in a pub last week or a theatre that has closed due to a covid scare do you have to send that person home (even if they’ve not been contacted by test and trace), can you demand they take a test, do you have to send everyone else home because they walked in the room and were there an hour? The potential SSP bill which the employer pays 100% of will kill off small businesses or is the government continuing to cover the 100% SSP but who will cover the lost business turnover for 10 days? We haven’t had this much stress the entire period of covid lockdown from March last year, the new “everyone out” mantra is causing a big problem.

    4. MiC
      July 15, 2021

      The leadership is absolutely fine and clear here in Wales, thanks.

      You got exactly for what you voted.

      1. NickC
        July 15, 2021

        So the clever virus can tell the difference between people living in Wales and in England, Martin? Amazing – especially as there’s little difference in the DNA mix. I suppose it’s a bit like the virus being able to tell the time; and being able to distinguish between a G7 attendee and a waiter?

      2. Fedupsoutherner
        July 15, 2021

        Ha, ha MIC. Half the population of Wales is English at the moment on holiday there and it will get worse this weekend with all the little darlings off school now. Still, Wales needs the English money.

      3. DennisA
        July 15, 2021

        The leadership in Wales is equally useless, also relying on the labelling of positive tests as “infections”.
        There are currently 79 confirmed covid patients across the whole of the Welsh hospital system, which is 0.003% of the Welsh population and less than 1% of all hospital in-patients. https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Health-and-Social-Care/NHS-Hospital-Activity/nhs-activity-and-capacity-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/hospitalisations-by-date-localhealthboard

      4. a-tracy
        July 15, 2021

        MiC, so what does Wales say to do in my scenarios Martin and who pays what in Wales [even though you’ve said you are now in Yorkshire]?

        1. MiC
          July 16, 2021

          Do you know what “travel” is, a-tracy?

          1. a-tracy
            July 16, 2021

            I do, so you have to follow the Welsh rules and English rules on a regular basis,
            So what does Wales say to do in my scenarios? It will save me looking it up as you know all the rules. Thanks in advance.

            Do you continue to follow the Welsh rules when in England?

  6. agricola
    July 15, 2021

    You describe them as changes planned. I very much doubt it, the ill informed are talking the talk.
    Where is the plan for vastly increased electricity generation and more significantly distribution. An ex generating board electrical engineer told me only this week that current distribution equipment would only sustain three Tesla high speed chargers per street in the streets that could afford Teslas. Anything more would be like a very cold Christmas day with everyone roastng turkeys, the system could not take it.
    You deprive people of their personal mobility by herding them onto our trains, buses, bikes and their footleather and you are in big political trouble. Add to this the cost you will heap upon them and the trouble becomes a political disaster. I liken it to giving any member of our government the personal task of creating an effective Covid vaccine. It would be pissing into wind.
    Assuming you had the electricity to charge all these vehicles, how are you going to do it for the great car park of vehicles that live in the streets of our cities. Cables running everywhere, competition for a parking space increases to more competition for one with a charging point. It will vastly increase the range of criminality. I will personally hang onto my very efficient diesel, already ahead of european requirements, until such time as Toyota for instance are producing hydrogen fueled small and medium vehicles in volume at acceptable prices. They have already started at the top end. Both Shell and BP are looking at hydrogen distribution I read.
    Our governments drive to green is a supertanker run by a drunken crew who have forgotten their destination and how to get there. Not surprising as they lack masters tickets, but think the law is the solution while failing to realise that real lawyers make a very good living well away from the HoC.

    1. Nig l
      July 15, 2021

      This is a positioning document setting out direction and ideas for the next umpteen years. Why do people always jump on it because it can’t be done now.

      Maybe a bit of visioning would help.

      1. NickC
        July 15, 2021

        Nig1, because it has to be done now! The planning for the expansion of demand for electricity to fuel the battery cars and electric for your ill-advised future should have already started if it’s to be available on time. And indeed for Nuclear the early build work should have commenced (and not just for replacements). The fact that neither have occurred (BEIS isn’t even projecting an increase) shows that it’s either green waffle or the establishment is planning millions of cold carless peasants.

        1. NickC
          July 15, 2021

          “electric homes” tsk, tsk.

    2. 37/6
      July 15, 2021

      There won’t be the trains. I cannot stress the impact that Covid has had on railways. Trains are only officially allowed to run at 50% capacity with aisle seats taped off.

      Huge cuts are on their way.

      So just as cars are about to be made prohibitively expensive for people the railways start folding up. Cosmic !

    3. MFD
      July 15, 2021

      +1 We have nut- nut and the greens with net-zero intelligence pushing the dishevelled idiot to the edge of disaster.
      And no one watching the kings new clothes has the guts to tell the twat HE is wrong

      1. Timaction
        July 15, 2021

        Indeed. He is now leader of the Green/Yellow former Conservative Party. Who is going to vote for this bs?

    4. lifelogic
      July 15, 2021

      +1

    5. zorro
      July 15, 2021

      Agree with this comment almost in its entirety…. very rarely do you see anyone challenge the absurdity of the proposition that everyone will be able to have an electric car and tootle around. The government knows full well that they will never get that generating capacity. Perhaps they are not expecting to be that many people who will need them for whatever reason? Your guess is as good as mine….. And in any case, there are only so many Congolese children who will be able to work in the cobalt and nickel mines….

      zorro

    6. kb
      July 15, 2021

      I think this answers the question about electricity generation capacity. There’s no plan because it won’t be needed. Only the top few per cent will have a car. That is your answer.

      1. Andy
        July 15, 2021

        I’m not sure what you all think is going to happen here. We are not suddenly going to wake up on 1 January 2030 and find every car is electric. This is not a dumb Brexit cliff edge stuff.

        There are around 30m cars in the country – and we buy around 2m new ones each year. It’ll take well into the late 2030s or early 2040s until most cars are electric. By then, not only will those cars – and everything else – be massively more efficient than they are today it also gives us 20 years or more to build up extra generating capacity – if we need it. Which we may not.

        Your home is packed full of gizmos and gadget that, just 20 years ago, you didn’t have. And yet an average U.K home now consumes nearly 25% LESS energy than it did just 20 years ago. We use less energy as a country than in 1970. Staggering, eh?

        Energy efficiency has had a massive impact. You all ridicule EU efficiency rules on fridges, TVs, lightbulbs, toasters but the fact is they work. The EU gives us more for less. The Tories just give us less.

        Anyway, calm down. Your lights will still work and you’ll still be able to watch Countdown.

        1. Peter2
          July 15, 2021

          If your magic toaster is half the usual wattage it will take twice as long to toast your bread andy.
          Thus it may well end up using the same amount of electricity.

          1. MiC
            July 16, 2021

            Yes, but if everyone’s is halved then the power spike at breakfast time is only half of what it was, and the expensive standby capacity, inefficiently idling away can be closed.

            This is utterly basic stuff, but you clearly struggle with it.

          2. Peter2
            July 16, 2021

            MiC
            I wasn’t commenting on grid loading MiC which may be a small advantage, just on the fact that andy’s electricity useage may well not reduce with the use of his EU half power toaster (and vacuum cleaner and kettles and hair dryer) all of which will need to be used for longer to complete the task they are designed for.
            This really is utterly basic stuff which you clearly fail to understand.

    7. Original Richard
      July 15, 2021

      Agricola :
      I agree with you.

      With regard to hydrogen’s use in small personal vehicles, even if it is technologically possible to improve the 25% efficiency when hydrogen is burnt and remove the NOx emissions or improve on the 50% efficiency and high prices of fuel cells there is still the problem that the energy density of hydrogen, even when stored at 10,000 PSI (700 bar) is a seventh of E10 petrol.

      So to go the same distance you would need fuel tanks 7 times bigger than currently required for petrol or diesel cars.

      1. Alan Jutson
        July 15, 2021

        O Richard

        Suggest you look at the range and performance of the new hydrogen powered Toyota that is actually in production, and on sale at the moment.
        The problem is not what you suggest, but the availability and price of hydrogen.
        Last time I looked (about 3 months ago) there were only 11 refuelling stations in the UK, many more existed in Europe, but still nowhere near enough to even consider a sensible purchase.

        1. Original Richard
          July 15, 2021

          Alan Jutson : Thanks for your information.

          I have checked Toyota’s spec on the fuel celled Mirai. They say that the cruising range is up to 342 miles if the 182 litres of the twin tanks can be filled at 70 MPa (700 bar).

          A diesel car at 40 mpg consumption would require 40 litres for 342 miles.

          So the Mirai requires 182/40 = 4.5 times the tank volume for a given range.

          I admit this is less than the 7 times I previously quoted but 4.5 is still a large multiple and must impact upon the available space for passengers/luggage.

          BTW, I don’t think Toyota specify the weight of these tanks.

          1. Alan Jutson
            July 15, 2021

            O Richard

            Yes tanks larger but can be filled in 5 mins (just Like ICE Cars), think tanks are located under the floor, and very heavily protected from all reports I have seen, although more detailed information needs more research as there are a number of reports.

            Certainly agree big drawback is the lack of filling up stations, and the cost of the Hydrogen.

            Agree diesel is still the most efficient with no range problems and a quick fill up time, although petrol with mild electric hybrid units are now starting to come onto the market, thus no range anxiety as main source of fuel is petrol, which also helps regenerate the batteries.

    8. DavidJ
      July 15, 2021

      +1

  7. Old Albion
    July 15, 2021

    And all to save 1% of global CO2, ridiculous.

    1. NickC
      July 15, 2021

      And it won’t even do that, Old Albion. It won’t work (properly), and it won’t be done on time, and it won’t be anything like as effective at removing CO2 as the establishment think. In the meantime we’ll all (us peasants) get poorer, colder, and carless.

  8. Sea_Warrior
    July 15, 2021

    I would like to see the government abandon its attack on ICE-powered vehicles, and the associated targets. If electric vehicles are good enough, people will buy them without having their arms twisted. I have two return journeys to make next week (Portsmouth to Headcorn, Kent and Portsmouth to Christchurch, Dorset). Only one of them – to Christchurch – could be done without re-charging. Using the train alternative triples my journey times.
    P.S. I was disappointed to see a report, in the Daily Mail, that Grant Shapps has ‘no sympathy’ for those whose holidays are being affected by the latest Green-to-Amber movements. What is it with the Ministry of Transport that seems to make it revel in sociopathy?

    1. NickC
      July 15, 2021

      I’m getting tired of the government telling me how to live all the waking time of my life. I’m tired of finger-wagging politicians telling me I can’t hug my grandchildren whilst they hug their mistresses. I find politicians very tiring who tell me that we have left the EU, when part of the UK – Northern Ireland – remains under EU control. I am especially tired of being told that clean natural gas must be banned in the UK because politicians insist there will be a catastrophic meltdown of the planet unless it is, when climate scientists say there’s no such thing as CAGW. I’m really tired of politicians telling me HS2 is a good use of my children’s money. I’m tired of being told I must genuflect to BLM, male athletes competing in women’s events, 8 year old boys who tell me they’re really girls, snowflakes who don’t like English pronouns. I’m tired of people who expect me to subsidise the BBC just because they like it. I am truly tired of the establishment virtue-signalling with my money as they splurge on foreign aid. I’m tired of being told by technically illiterate activists that my petrol car must be replaced by a BEV even though a battery car is bad for the environment.

      You know what? – I’ve had enough. I don’t care any more what the government tells me. I have no intention of pandering to the whines of the wokerati. I’m going to do my best not to live in fear any more.

    2. DennisA
      July 15, 2021

      This constant dribbling out of “new initiatives” will continue until after the UN gathering in Glasgow in November. Hopefully, after that, the government can quietly forget some or all of this Alice in Wonderland policy.

      1. Mark B
        July 16, 2021

        That’s what I am hoping. That, and all the others disagree and we can use that as an excuse to drop it.

  9. Dave Andrews
    July 15, 2021

    I looked up the figures for energy density of petrol and compared it with Li-ion battery. Petrol has 100 times more energy density, so a 50kg fill of petrol is only equalled by 5 tons of battery. The higher efficiency of electric vehicles might reduce this to about 1.5 tons for comparable performance, but it still means doubling the weight of the vehicle.
    Presumably the calculation for an HGV is similar, so the trucks are going to double in weight. Has anyone calculated what that will mean for road durability?
    EVs seem to be a good solution for shorter journeys, but for a longer journeys it seems to me that the ICE is a better solution with the fuel synthesized from the energy at power stations. Filling up is much quicker – just think of the prospect of arriving at the service station with a queue of 5 vehicles in front. A nuisance when you want a tank of fuel, but suppose each vehicle is going to take an hour – that’s most of the day gone before you can continue.

    1. Alan Jutson
      July 15, 2021

      Dave

      A proper hybrid solution would seem to be the one that gives optimum performance, range, and fill up times, where the limited range of electric batteries are constantly being charged up for use whilst on the move, by the ICE powered engine and any braking/freewheeling effect of the vehicle, the battery power helps the ICE engine through the whole power cycle, so that its use is optimised.
      This solution means the ICE engine runs more efficiently, gives greater miles per gallon travelled, and gives out less “harmful” emissions per mile travelled.
      It’s often called a Mild Hybrid, but so far the Government does not seem to recognise this form of power solution (what a surprise) which comes from Formula one development.

    2. Chris S
      July 15, 2021

      Energy density is not the issue. The real comparison between petrol and batteries is not weight, it’s volume. In that comparison, the extra volume in the vehicle taken up by a traction battery is relatively small compared with a petrol tank and is much easier to accommodate within the floorpan than the tank.h

      1. Mark
        July 16, 2021

        Weight is an issue. It takes more energy to move more weight – especially at higher speeds. E=0.5mv^2

    3. Mark B
      July 16, 2021

      This is why I think Hybrids are a way to go. Electric for short urban journeys, ICE for longer ones. But this idiotic government has even decided to ban those. Gobsmacked !

  10. Everhopeful
    July 15, 2021

    What is there left to say to political parties that have relentlessly laid waste a country?
    Is this descent into lemming-like madness driven by fear or greed?
    Who is the director of all this?
    Whoever, whatever, we have been betrayed on an epic scale, our justified fears over many years dismissed angrily as conspiracy. People who just might have saved us, mercilessly destroyed.
    Diverted and divided, it seems we have no option but to do what a Belgian friend said they did during WW2. Turn up your collar, look neither left nor right, see nothing, hear nothing, keep walking.
    We are a defeated and occupied country now.

    1. NickC
      July 15, 2021

      Everhopeful, That is a very good summary of where we are. The public are now bit-players in the new farce: “Carrie on Boris”.

      1. Everhopeful
        July 15, 2021

        +1

      2. Mark B
        July 16, 2021

        +1

  11. Sharon
    July 15, 2021

    The whole net zero thing is ill thought out, and as you say, JR, contradictory and will cost trillions of pounds.

    Over time we’ve been encouraged to travel further to work; travel further to school; take gap years to travel abroad, many settling there; holiday abroad…. now suddenly all that has to stop, why? Because we need to reduce our carbon footprint in the non-greenest green way possible. At the expense of the environment and the people on the street who shall end up poorer and colder and unable to travel much!

    And that’s building back ‘better’?

    It surely must fail!

    1. Timaction
      July 15, 2021

      Indeed total bs as the Chinese, India, etc etc have no plans soon to do this nonsense. So it’s gesture politics at vast expense a d inconvenience to the English taxpayer, most of whom are politically homeless now!

  12. Brian Tomkinson
    July 15, 2021

    Yet another tentacle of government imposing authoritarian state control. How can you bear to be part of this?

  13. Everhopeful
    July 15, 2021

    I see that some “food tsar”or other ( FGS!) is popping out of his box.
    We will cut our meat consumption by 1/5 apparently, reduce sugar, eat fermented stuff etc etc.
    Don’t they realise that we have always eaten according to their decrees, sometimes on pain of death?
    No one asked for plastic, no one asked for crowded roads and skies, constant noise and emissions and all the other unpleasantnesses forced on us.
    With every edict coming down from on high we have always adapted our little lives accordingly.
    Like hamsters in cages.
    And now with supreme cruelty the plug is being pulled…again.

  14. P. Else
    July 15, 2021

    Tell us how will those zero emission vehicles get their power? Magic? It must be because the only reliable and efficient power generation comes from fossil fuels. The same fossil fueled power generation that is being phased out by this idiotic government. Will solar or wind power take over? No, it has totally failed in Germany where the same stupidity is playing out a little ahead of us. This policy reads like a ridiculous fantasy sci fi script where laws of thermo dynamics don’t apply and wonderful new power sources with no downsides are invented at will.
    This is not a surprise given that this government claims to follow the science about the virus whilst totally ignoring it in practice. The green agenda is entirely driven by the very same people for the same reasons as the virus agenda. Power, control and money.

    1. Everhopeful
      July 15, 2021

      Wet and clad only in a loincloth, The Dear Leader will be hefted onto a mighty plinth where he will extend a damp forefinger Heavenwards.
      Thus he will conduct electricity to the waiting earth.

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      July 15, 2021

      P.Else. totally agree with your post. Madness at best.

      1. Fedupsoutherner
        July 15, 2021

        Not long before we are a banana republic.

    3. NickC
      July 15, 2021

      P. Else, Just so. Though Andy – one of the regular Remain commenters here – thinks we’ll get the power by having EU kettles and toasters. I guess our government thinks the same way. Oh, it’s hilarious!

      1. Mark
        July 16, 2021

        I guess the EU has magically changed the specific heat of water – the amount of energy required to raise a given quantity by one degree. Because more powerful kettles boil faster they are on for less time. The result is that given that we use our kettles randomly there is the same demand on the grid whether we have 1 million kettles working at 3kW or 3 million kettles boiling slowly at 1kW. The faster kettles are much more convenient.

        It is a myth that TV pickup is about simultaneous kettle use. Most football fans drink something a little stronger than tea, and they tend to make an urgent dash and flush the lavatory at half time, which sets off water pumps throughout the water supply system: that is the main source of extra demand.

  15. Narrow Shoulders
    July 15, 2021

    Did the geniuses who compiled this report comment on what other countries will be doing at this same time? Will we make ourselves less competitive to make little impact to the carbon emissions of the world (I doubt the report dwelt on whether this was actually a good measure)?

    If we are truly serious about this we must put massive tariffs on goods imported from countries that do not follow the same self destructive path as us and start to provide more of our own food and goods. Prices will go up but at least we will have an internal market in which to trade instead of being overrun by food and goods made much cheaper elsewhere because energy, infrastructure, and transport costs are lower.

    1. NickC
      July 15, 2021

      Narrow, Our government simply has no idea. None. Any government which thinks the EU will be reasonable over the Northern Ireland Protocol, is the sort of government that thinks it can overturn our entire economy by decree without a hitch, and without providing the fuel to do it with.

  16. Alan Jutson
    July 15, 2021

    The Government simply has a wish John, it does not have a plan to move forward towards that wish, all it can offer is more Regulation, Restrictions, Penalties and Taxes.

    Simply put it does not have a clue, and it certainly has not taken into account Human Nature, or the simple function of power generation and distribution to meet proposed demand.

    I see now we are going to be taxed further on our eating choices !!!!!!!

  17. MPC
    July 15, 2021

    ‘More work is needed on this strategy’ sounds like you have accepted that Net Zero as a concept is rational and necessary and government policy just needs some tweaking to facilitate it all. To think that it used to be Labour that destroyed the economy when in office, for it to be revived by the Conservatives and their emphasis on personal freedom. Net Zero is set to destroy our prosperity and way of life with the Tories entirely to blame and no one else.

    1. Fedupsoutherner
      July 15, 2021

      MPC. I’m sure Labour would say they could do it all better and faster. Anything to outdo the Tories. Isn’t half the problem due to Milliband signing the ridiculous climate change crap? We are on a hiding to nothing and the country will go down the pan. All that blood, sweat and tears for what? Why did our ancestors bother building such a great country when this lot couldn’t give a toss?

  18. glen cullen
    July 15, 2021

    The path to net zero in transport is pure madness…..SirJ your party and its leadership are mad
    2/3 households can’t directly charge from their home (flats terraces etc)
    4/5 households can’t afford the an electric vehicle
    9/10 don’t agree with a ban
    No one voted ‘green’ so why is this government pursuing ‘green’ policies….there is a reason why we only have one Green MP

  19. SM
    July 15, 2021

    Don’t worry, Sir John, everything is going to be ok, all the Government’s green yearnings will be fulfilled with absolutely no implementation problems … just as soon as all the Tory-voting pro-Brexit pensioners have been bumped off.

    Oh, perhaps you didn’t realise it’s that cohort of the UK electorate that has viciously and selfishly denied its children and grandchildren a smooth transition into a flawless future?

  20. Iain Moore
    July 15, 2021

    Path to net Zero is probably the right description, for as sure as heck it won’t be a road for us plebs in the build back better new world order. It will be shanks pony for us while our betters get to waft down their Zil lane motorways in their Tesla cars.

    1. DennisA
      July 15, 2021

      I am delighted to hear that the NHS will be Net Zero by 2040:
      https://www.england.nhs.uk/greenernhs/a-net-zero-nhs/

      1. Mark
        July 16, 2021

        Does that mean they won’t be using anaesthetics in future? It’s quite revealing to see all the kinds of pollution that come from hospitals. It’s a cost of being made well again.

  21. Ian Wragg
    July 15, 2021

    The great leap back.
    Load of tosh and hot air.

    1. glen cullen
      July 15, 2021

      I do believe that our green party of government is trying to wear us out by a thousand cuts (a thousand unless green policies)

  22. David Cooper
    July 15, 2021

    Any attempt to lead our political/governing class to think again about the futility of the measures they contemplate in pursuit of Net Zero aka the Great Leap Backward is welcome. However, at times they seem oblivious to reason and logic, our esteemed host’s customary approach, and they might only sit up and listen if they feared joining the ranks of those very hoi polloi whom they intend to make cold, poor, hungry, dirty, immobile, bored and miserable.

    “Net Zero: no Net Benefit.” How will this message be hammered home to them, and by whom?

    1. Everhopeful
      July 15, 2021

      The very best soundbite I have seen!
      Beats all govt. pathetic attempts used in their puerile propaganda.

      NET ZERO:NO NET BENEFIT !!

      1. David Cooper
        July 15, 2021

        Thanks, appreciated. Let’s circulate it far and wide!

  23. Richard1
    July 15, 2021

    Here’s the issue I’d like them to address. In 2018 total electricity generation in the U.K. was 335 TWh. electricity currently accounts for only 20% of total energy consumption. Presumably ‘net zero’ requires that to rise as close to 100% as possible. Even allowing for much more efficient devices and machines, we will surely need c. 3-5x the electricity generation we now have. Where are the plans for that? We are informed eg that total offshore wind capacity will be 140 GW by 2030 (a huge increase). Assuming 40% load factor (capacity utilisation) that would allow generation of about 500 TWh (In 2018 we got 58 TWh from wind in total).

    Where is the rest to come from, the other 1,000 – 1,500 TWhs? Are there any MPs who look at these numbers and ask these questions?

    1. Mark
      July 16, 2021

      Part of the problem with trying to rely on wind is that there are times when it doesn’t blow enough to turn the turbines, so you need to have other generation to make up for it. Your 140GW of wind may produce as little as 2GW when demand will be anywhere between 10 and 40 times as much, or maybe more. At the other end of the scale, when we get very windy weather it may produce 100GW or more, or would do – except the extra has to be curtailed because there is no market for it and it is too costly to store. According to BP World Energy statistics, in 2016 Europe had just over 160GW of wind capacity.

      This chart shows what it generated:

      https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/QcA5c/1/

      Bear in mind that we are talking about countries as widely spread as Cyprus and Norway, Portugal and Romania.

  24. hefner
    July 15, 2021

    Please tell me. Is the MoS for Transport (Chris Heaton-Harris) and various USoS (Baroness Vere of Norbiton, R.MacLean, R.Courts) not ultimately responsible for what is published by the Ministry of Transport? Aren’t all these people Conservatives?

  25. Bryan Harris
    July 15, 2021

    Why does the government think it can push us around so easily? – Well yes, the NUDGE units are working overtime to help us relate to what the government want us to relate to…… but the double speak highlighted by our host is but the tip of the iceberg.

    I’m afraid I want nothing to do with any of the plans for NET-ZERO, or indeed any plans that give the authorities more power over our daily lives — WE are moving in the wrong direction as a society.

    BTW – Does this new report have a name/link…. Please

  26. glen cullen
    July 15, 2021

    Nobody has a problem with anybody wanting to buy an electric vehicle, that’s the right of every consumer in the free capitalised country

    We don’t like being controlled with a BAN, with a feel of a marxist communist state and social engineering

    Banning consumer choice is a communist principle

    1. Alan Jutson
      July 15, 2021

      Glen

      It will not be a ban, it will be by huge tax increases, then the Government will say it gave you a choice.

      Thats the way government thinks and works, whilst its Ministers are driven about at someone else’s expense (ours)

    2. MiC
      July 16, 2021

      Oh, so when my consumer choice to have my energy etc. supplied by a not-for-profit publicly-accountable supplier was removed by the Tories, does that mean that Thatcher was a Communist?

  27. Micky Taking
    July 15, 2021

    Did the authors, clearly not just one with the contradictions, visit counties outside big cities? Public transport is incredibly thin, inadequate, loss-making and unreliable. Many routes only survive off-peak by meandering through villages and more recent housing estates picking up those who cannot afford a car, have the time to sit while visiting indirect areas they are not interested in, and minimise trips due to the high cost.

    1. SM
      July 15, 2021

      +10

  28. a-tracy
    July 15, 2021

    Is this for UK roads or England roads, it seems the smaller nations are saying the PM can’t speak for them anymore on more and more topics. I heard yesterday on the news Drakeford’s gang doesn’t want government proposed road-building in South Wales. So why is your government proposing to spend money there on roads they don’t need or want?

  29. Jim Whitehead
    July 15, 2021

    Long past time for you to weigh anchor, Sir John.
    Many of us already have done so from a totally addled Party.
    Even the daft Caroline Lucas doesn’t give us such a feeling of dread.
    DOM, and Peter Hitchens, May your dreams come true, along with mine.

  30. 37/6
    July 15, 2021

    Net Zero on the railways.

    Pfffffff !

    So obsessed with going electric they’ve been forced to adopt complicated and heavy hybrid diesel/electric trains which have to carry a huge amount of dead weight. Not all areas are suitable for electrification but that hasn’t stopped them trying will billions wasted in project overruns and cancellations.

    German MTU diesel engines are as clean as it gets but they ditched them and went heavy hybrid instead.

    https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2020/07/Travers-Net-Zero-Distribution-Grid-Replacement.pdf

    This is on the hidden costs of upgrading homes to electric. A friend suggested that lamp posts could be turned into charging points. I sent photos of my locality of drive-less houses and all of them are set back away from the curb so they would all need to be moved to the curb to prevent trip hazards – in any case there would only be one lamp post per 20 cars. Imagine the fights and the mischief.

    1. Micky Taking
      July 15, 2021

      would somebody tell me what power is available at a lamp post? If sufficient to recharge a car -how long would it take? Given that in many stretches of roads with housing it would cause a queue to form for the use of, and what about the total consumption along the supply line with perhaps dozens of cars hooked up. How long before fuses blew, or demand safety switches off?

  31. majorfrustration
    July 15, 2021

    and still Westminster dream about tomorrow but fail to deal with the problems of today

  32. The Prangwizard
    July 15, 2021

    I think most of us will know that the contradiction referred to in the introduction is not some accident or carelessness, but is the typical deceitfulness of government and the bureacracy.

    The unprincipled, when defending criticism of the authoritarism and denying such intent will simply refer to the introduction.

    Suits the deviousness of our government and the environmental zealots perfectly.

  33. Andy
    July 15, 2021

    The assumption you all make is that these necessary changes will make things worse. Why do you all presume that?

    On the contrary – quieter, cleaner, more automated transportation will cut CO2, improve air quality, reduce noise pollution, lead to much less crowded streets and can significantly improve journey times too. These changes can dramatically improve society.

    What is needed is a competent government to actually make it happen. And that’s where we currently fail.

    One thing I do find particularly interesting that none of you who rant on about the awfulness of electric cars seem to have actually ever even have been in one. The are – quite literally – the best vehicles you can buy. A perfectly sensible alternative for most drivers most of the time. Don’t believe me? Test drive one.

    1. Micky Taking
      July 15, 2021

      What is the point when most of the population cannot afford one? And tell the elderly you hate so much, that they should swap their 2 or 3 cruises a year to buy one, rather than keep the 5 to 10 year old fossil fuel vehicle parked handily anywhere.

    2. NickC
      July 15, 2021

      Andy, It’s not an assumption – the changes are worse.

      Battery electric cars have short ranges (worsened by high-speeds, night-time, rain, cold, and heat) and long fill-up times. They cost around 50% more than an equivalent petrol model (so most people cannot afford one), and are about 50% heavier (so worse in a crash). Battery life (to c70% of new) is about 8 years, shortened by frequent charging cycles, age (c2.3% deterioration a year), and by fast charging. It is probably uneconomical to replace the battery, meaning a car life of only c8 years, and/or very low re-sale value. That’s very bad for the economy, the owner and for pollution. It also means that the “gain” on CO2 emissions will be much less than hoped, maybe only just breaking even.

      Then there are no plans for the fuel for battery cars. No plans to increase the amount of electricity being generated – and, yes, planning and even building (for Nuclear) should have started now for 2040. The Grid will also need upgrading, but there aren’t plans for that either. And no your EU toasters won’t hack it.

      If the public wanted battery cars because they really were better than petrol cars, there would be no need for the coercion, or your propaganda.

    3. Alan Jutson
      July 15, 2021

      Andy

      Whilst I agree with many of your points, it needs to be done with choice.

      Why should I and millions of others have to scrap a perfectly working ICE vehicle, which does everything we need, for something that is very expensive and will not.

      2030 is too shorter time scale for efficient and sensible engineering development & research, not just for the vehicles themselves, but for the infrastructure that will power them.

      And Yes I have driven an electric vehicle, but only whilst on holiday, and for very short trips.

  34. NotA#
    July 15, 2021

    I note that all the UK’s major competitors in industry etc. will not be hoping to achieve NET Zero for at least another generation.

    It would appear that the UK at 1% -ish of the Worlds population will be committing commercial suicide just so its naïve government can ‘grand stand’ and send a ‘virtue signal’ to any one that can be bothered to listen.

  35. agricola
    July 15, 2021

    `Instruction.
    Make absolutely certain that Tokamac Energy is never financed by the Chinese or any other foreign power. It never employs anyone of foreign extraction, and those it does employ are positively vetted. Ensure them the same level of security as we would our atomic submarine bases. What they are doing is greater in potential wealth creation than the invention of the wheel or jet engine. It is not something to be shared willingly or by accident.

  36. Andy
    July 15, 2021

    Malta. Chile. The Seychelles. Israel. Bahrain. Mongolia. Hungary. Iceland. UAE. Qatar.

    What do these countries all have in common?

    They have all fully vaccinated a higher percentage of their populations than we have. Some of them a significantly higher percentage.

    When your friendly local Tory MP – or your prime minister – asks for your vote by telling you our vaccination programme is the best in Europe – or even that it is ‘world beating’ – tell them that, whilst the NHS has done well, our vaccination programme is still behind Mongolia’s.

    Good, yes. World beating, no. Best in Europe, also no. Why does Johnson choose to repeatedly lie about this stuff? Do any of you even care that your prime minister is a compulsive liar?

    1. Sea_Warrior
      July 15, 2021

      I gather that The Seychelles is having a rough time of it, having injected Chinese vaccines into its citizens’ arms. It’s off my holiday short-list fo now.

    2. Peter2
      July 15, 2021

      Easily achieved when your country has a small population andy.
      Malta is about half a million people on one small island.
      Southampton is nearly double that on its own.
      Your comparisons are ridiculous.

      1. MiC
        July 15, 2021

        Germany and France have pretty well caught up with the UK now.

        1. Peter2
          July 15, 2021

          About time too.

        2. MiC
          July 16, 2021

          With far fewer deaths per unit of population than the UK, I’d leave them alone if I were you.

          1. Peter2
            July 16, 2021

            per unit of population?
            But recorded deaths:-
            UK 128k
            France 111k
            Germany 92K
            There are many and various reasons fro the variences including population density, ages of population, health of population, obesity in the population and different definitions and methods of counting Covid deaths.
            I think you should leave it alone if I were you

    3. Alan Jutson
      July 15, 2021

      It’s the youngsters who are holding us up Andy.
      A far bigger percentage of that age group are refusing the jab than any of the older cohorts.
      Fully aware they were offered it last, but the under 30’s are taking longer, because fewer in percentage terms from that age group are actually coming forward.
      Hence they have the largest rate of recorded infection. !

  37. NotA#
    July 15, 2021

    They will have the French and Chinese taxpayers laughing their socks off.

    This Government rather than invest in the UK has committed UK taxpayer funding to support the French taxpayer owned electricity company, the amount of UK taxpayer money committed is greater than the value of the company. Does the UK taxpayer have a say? No. Does the French government have a say yes. Does the UK taxpayer get a share in the company? – No. That is just one of the many examples of the disdain and disrespect this government shows its taxpayers and its people in general.

    There is no desire by this government to encourage UK independence all the time it is using UK taxpayers to support the Foreign taxpayers ahead the UK’s.

    This government throws our money around to anyone and everyone, particularly in support of the foreign taxpayer long before they consider the health and wealth of the UK.

    How about instead of throwing away our taxpayer money away they either invest for a return in the UK or better still let us all have some of it back

    1. graham1946
      July 15, 2021

      The Tories are viscerally opposed to nationalisation – British natioanlisation that is – foreign government owed is perfectly acceptable. And we should of course pay them much more than the electricity (if it ever is generated) is actually worth for the next 50 years. All this just to avoid fronting the cost of power stations ourselves, although the country found the thick end of a trillion pounds to bail out the banks and almost half of that for Covid. We could have had a fleet of power new stations for far less.

  38. Roy Grainger
    July 15, 2021

    The EU have already postponed the elimination of fuel-driven vehicles from 2035 to 2040. Even that target is unachievable. I see the Government have also postponed a report on how they plan to make us pay £10,000 for the privilege of scrapping our gas boilers. That policy will have to be abandoned too. If they don’t we’ll vote for a party which will scrap it. That party may not exist yet.

    Meanwhile elsewhere in the enlightened green paradise that is Andy’s EU guess what date Germany has committed to to eliminate their coal burning power stations ? 2038.

  39. turboterrier
    July 15, 2021

    Situation normal then.
    Ministers once again showing their heads are where the sun doesn’t shine.
    Before they even embarked on this road to be a world leader in net zero. Not one minister has told us about the cost of an infrastructure to provide base load power 24/7 and its transmission for all these excessive demands that will be made on the network for all the EVs, heat pumps, industrial and commercial use. Not building from a sound foundation will end in tears, as what is dreamed about is totally unsustainable.
    If the targets had been extended for another 20 years (2070) the engineers and scientist’s will come up with viable alternatives to cover all eventualities, it has to be an all or nothing programme. Please tell the ministers to stop peeing down our necks and telling us it’s raining. Let’s have some real honesty.

  40. Mark
    July 15, 2021

    It’s bonkers Sir John. We are going to run head first into the immovable rock as defined by the laws of physics and thermodynamics. Have the planners and civil servants even considered the impact on the national grid and power generation needs? And on the topic of EVs – the extraction costs and environmental damage are immense. But that’s just brown kids far away so I guess they don’t matter much.?

    And battery disposal ? That also is a non-trivial issue.

    The list goes on …

    1. turboterrier
      July 15, 2021

      Mark
      Don’t forget turbine blade disposal, damage to peat bogs, concrete bases affecting natural water supplies, turbines off shore destroying fishing grounds, and the destruction of wild life.

  41. oldtimer
    July 15, 2021

    You reveal the true intent of these proposals – drive private cars off the road – level down not up – create dependency on state provision, crush freedom to travel at will. Of course the covid pandemic has provided the opportunity and cover to test run control measures from lock downs to apps to covid passports (it is only a matter of time before they are required). The misguided preoccupation with CO2 is causing governments in the west to put their finger firmly on the self destruct button and the Prime Lemming is leading the charge over the cliff edge at the forthcoming climate conference. It can only be ended once voters realise they have been conned and eject the current generation of politicians (most MPs) for a new generation that actually has their interests at heart and rejects this current version of project fear.

    1. beresford
      July 15, 2021

      Where is this new generation of MPs that has our best interests at heart to come from? ‘Meet the new boss; same as the old boss’. Remember they can say what they like at election time and row back afterwards when the Grandees have had a quiet word in their ears. I’m afraid they escaping this situation merely by voting is wishful thinking.

      1. turboterrier
        July 15, 2021

        beresford

        Where is this new generation of MPs that has our best interests at heart to come from?

        If you wait long enough they all eventually climb over the wall of their local asylum.
        Some if not a lot of the blame has to be directed at the people who selected them and wrote the requirements of the position.

      2. graham1946
        July 15, 2021

        The only way forward is to get rid of the party system. You cannot become an MP without joining one of the big parties and kowtowing to their leadership. Hell, you can’t even get elected to our local council with joining the Tories.

  42. turboterrier
    July 15, 2021

    With all this pontificating by our ministers about net zero, the chorus of the song “on the bridge at midnight” comes to mind..
    It’s the same the whole world over its the poor that takes the blame. Its the rich that get the pleasures and its always been the same.
    It is one big ask of the taxpayers on top of everything else they perceive they are getting hammered for. Has anyone asked about the extra costs that will be added to the social, civil services budgets? All will be paid by the taxpayer. The energy infrastructure by the bill payers. The re fuelling networks.
    Not convinced this is a totally thought out project. All the time China will carry on as it does and sweeps up the remains of a once great country.

  43. John Miller
    July 15, 2021

    The problem politicians have is that climate change has become a religion. Therefore facts are seen as blasphemy. What tools in the past have been used by politicians in the past to change the perception of religion?
    My own knowledge in this area is scant, so I cannot offer suggestions.
    But using logic and science is not the way to solve the problem.
    The problem will be solved when the costs and measures required to achieve the required suicide become apparent. But this will be a death knell for the Party that announces them.

  44. No Longer Anonymous
    July 15, 2021

    O/T but seeing as this Govt wants to tax sugary and salty food (for our own good, of course) how about a hefty litter tax on drive-thru takeaways ?

    It is patently obvious that people too lazy to get out of their cars to buy a meal are too lazy to find a bin after they’ve eaten it and their litter is a blight on this area nearly ten miles from the nearest outlet.

    PS, yet again the majority are punished for the excesses of the minority with this proposed tax. Drink driving and no seatbelts and smoking were reduced by stigmatising these things. Obesity is defended and being embraced as ‘normal’ so we shouldn’t be surprised that it’s becoming …. well…. normal.

    We’ve even had woke magazines telling us that “This IS healthy.”

  45. MikeP
    July 15, 2021

    Morning Sir John, have you or any other MPs asked what happened to the global climate during the MASSIVE reduction in car, plane and train use and economic downturn in 2020? For once in the fight against the climate change dogma we had real world evidence that the Earth’s climate is pretty much independent of what Mankind does but the propaganda continues.

    1. Alan Jutson
      July 15, 2021

      +1

  46. Mactheknife
    July 15, 2021

    Clearly the views of those who voted to put this government in power are to be ignored. Nobody voted for this eco-loon nonsense and its up to MP’s to tell Johnson this immediately. I wont even mention the science or rather the corruption of science by the green lobby who will stop at nothing to get their way. Others have pointed out more serious direct issues such as generating capacity required for all these new EV’s and the charging points required on busy streets and apartment blocks. The government seem to promise financial assistance but are they going to pay the massive extra costs for an EV that struggles to do more that 40 miles before a recharge ? We are subsidizing green energy massively and yet we will need vastly more electricity – who pays ?

    The Conservative party are going down a path of socialist madness. You used to say you were the ‘party of choice’, but are moving to command and control.

    We see today that you want to tax salt and sugar. So you attack the proles again in their pockets.

    Shame on you. This is not what I signed up for.

  47. jerry
    July 15, 2021

    Hopefully this is all just “Puff” in the lead to COP26, the EU also came out with similar nonsense yesterday, once the political grandstanding is all done and plaudits handed out, some sanity will emerge.

    1. turboterrier
      July 15, 2021

      jerry
      some sanity will emerge.

      Don’t hold your breath

  48. Martin
    July 15, 2021

    I really do not know how you stay a member of the party John.

    1. Micky Taking
      July 15, 2021

      Sir John doesn’t warrant the likely level of abuse he’ll get from the numbskulls still there.
      ‘There’s always tomorrow’.
      Hope and pray – but it looks very much like a lost cause.

      1. Micky Taking
        July 15, 2021

        If only we could get 100 Sir Johns to go Independent, then it would put party politics on its head.
        No more Whips beating up on ridiculous policies, a group size whose clout would need to be listened to.
        No – I haven’t been at the happy pills.

    2. Everhopeful
      July 15, 2021

      Me neither.
      It must be daily torture.
      And so disappointing to have dedicated one’s life to a party/politics and see this mayhem.

    3. graham1946
      July 15, 2021

      He saw what happened when two left for UKIP – crushed.

  49. Dave Ward
    July 15, 2021

    “I am all in favour of new electric cars and vans once they are seen by more of the public as better than the diesel and petrol versions”

    Then you’ll be waiting for a long time!

    “And there is land available for all railway spurs not to mention planning and purchasing?”

    I’m sure you are aware that Highways England are wrecking the plans of several railway restoration groups by under filling (potentially) hundreds of existing rail bridges. This is also going to disrupt many countryside paths – so much for “sustainable transport”…

  50. BJC
    July 15, 2021

    This is a government lacking any cohesion; not just through opposing views, but opposing objectives, none of which can easily be equated to the mandate we voted for. We witness the flip-flops of indecision on a daily basis, when those anointed with extraordinary powers use flawed data to control the narrative (“green” and Covid), yet aren’t held accountable to anyone. It’s the PM’s responsibility, of course, yet the post is occupied by someone who clearly doesn’t like or want the job now he’s got it, neither does he have the strength of character to challenge such well-organised and aggressive lobbying. He simply can’t manage the resources of UK plc effectively on the basis of unproven ideology or fearful acquiescence to every evolving nuance. Mr Johnson’s personal failure to lead incisively is a direct link to delaying business decisions/investment and impoverishing millions of lives. We deserve better.

  51. kb
    July 15, 2021

    It was in Private Eye recently, that the transport minister is ordering all local authorities to drive bus lanes through areas no matter what. He knows there will be massive objections but he is not bothered, and he is planning that the local councillors take the blame for it.
    This is democracy is it?
    This is a Conservative government behaving like this. More authoritarian and stupid than any hard-left government we have been scared with. It beggars belief.

    1. Micky Taking
      July 15, 2021

      Just another way to raise fines for the authority budget.

    2. graham1946
      July 15, 2021

      Transport, probably the most important dept. in government, as nothing and no-one moves without it, is always given to the least talented individual MP going. Shows what they are, they like the showboating of the Foreign Office etc. rather than any hard graft, so we end up with stupid laws made by stupid people with no experience of anything much. Planning is another one such.

  52. chris hook
    July 15, 2021

    Does the Tory leadership realise that a sizeable proportion of Conservative voters just cannot believe the nonsense coming out of No 10.

    1. DOM
      July 15, 2021

      Hear, hear. Non-Tory Johnson and his party of woke grifters are destroying our nation and our freedoms. Time for backbenchers to bring this clown down. He’s sold us down the river, big time

  53. zorro
    July 15, 2021

    “Given the millions of vehicles they want replaced that could prove very costly.” – Do they say that number in the report? I think that they have very carefully shied away from claiming how many vehicles will be needed. There’s a reason for that…. Seek and ye shall find….

    zorro

    1. Micky Taking
      July 15, 2021

      There were 38m vehicles registered in GB 2020, subtract the 60,000 electric ones and that is a lot of cars to be replaced.

    2. graham1946
      July 15, 2021

      They are talking car sharing etc. How long before individuals are banned from owning private transport?

  54. mongoose
    July 15, 2021

    Ok, I’ll play. A strategy for personal transport, you ask? Let’s try hydrogen. Yes, one can burn hydrogen in an ICE without a mad amount of redesign. Hydrogen production though needs a lot of energy because, err, physics. Hydrogen molecules just don’t want to be simply hydrogen molecules. This cannot be changed. Anything like the amounts required will be a) a huge electrical draw which can only be met by nuclear power, b) entertainingly dangerous. (Think “Hindenburg”.) It is not impossible to overcome a) and b) but the work needed to have started a few decades ago, especially on the power stations. And the cost will be insane.

    Or let’s try electric vehicles. See above re nuclear power. And then think about charging/storage. it is true that most car journeys are short. So range really isn’t an issue 90-odd times out of a hundred. But charging will have to be cable-free. See “inductive charging”. (NB we used to have two cars – one small for local and one large for long journeys. We no longer have the large one and just hire a car when we need to go a long way or carry a lot of stuff. It’s cheaper in the long run and only minimally less convenient.) But I digress, like hydrogen, the cost of all this infrastructure will be eye-watering.

    Travel though will be the least of the problems. Removing gas boilers will sink the eco-ship. The sheer stupidity of it boggles the mind. (Folk dying through energy poverty? By the thousand? In Blighty, you say, not Canada. Crikey. A covid holocaust every winter – by design. )

    The long march through the institutions has ruined western critical scientific thinking and engineering commonsense. We now teach school children crypto-Marxist political dogma and call it physics. People who disagree with us, we attack via ad hominem cant and label – ‘deniers’, ‘anti-vaxers’. May as well be honest and just call them heretics. It is quite, quite wicked and it will end in tears.

    Finally, as I am here, there isn’t a shred of a chance of the electrical generation capacity being in place to meet the green agenda. If a body doesn’t understand this, a body should not play with toys a body does not understand. But, heck, I’ve only been an engineer for 40 years. What do I know?

  55. lifelogic
    July 15, 2021

    Michael Howard today on the Telegraph today.

    Sidelining England is a blow to democracy
    The Government is wrong to abolish rules giving English MPs a special say over matters in England

    Surely a foolish move by the Conservatives in electoral terms, they are essentially an English Party.

  56. Donna
    July 15, 2021

    I drive a small petrol driven car. I usually do about 6,000 miles a year.

    I have no intention of scrapping my cheap, fuel efficient and very convenient car or changing it for an expensive, inefficient and (where I live) impossible to charge electric one. I’m currently planning to keep it to 2029 and then buy another one.

    If the Government wants to move towards net zero, instead of targeting every car owner and attempting to force them off the road if they can’t afford to switch to electric, they should either ban or tax the huge and (for most people) unnecessary 4 x 4s off the roads.

    1. Dave Andrews
      July 15, 2021

      I sometimes wonder if people run 4x4s because they cope better with the potholes.
      On that basis the need must be great.

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      July 15, 2021

      Donna. I thought we were living in a free society where you can choose to drive what you want to. I find with arthritis in my knees, hips and back that a 4X4 suits me well and is more comfortable than other cars which we have had in the past. You may be happy with a noddy car but its not for me.

      1. Donna
        July 15, 2021

        You must really be looking forward to a Noddy electric one then; or being forced to walk, cycle or use public transport.

        The point is, we’re not going to be living in a free society where we can choose drive what we want to. The CONservative Party gave up any belief it may once have had in a free society a long time ago. The intention is to tax, coerce, legislate or socially-credit us into doing whatever the lunatics in charge decide they want.

    3. graham1946
      July 15, 2021

      Donna, you may well buy another ICE car, but will you be able to afford the fuel? Will it even be available? This is the way they will get you, as always, by taxing the plebs out of what they themselves will carry on doing at public expense.

  57. Elizabeth Spooner
    July 15, 2021

    Where is this manipulation of the public going to end ? Today’s proposal is to change our diets.
    Getting goods about – we are so short of HGV drivers there may empty shelves in the shops quite soon.
    A lady transport official said on TV yesterday that the plan was to “move people¬ away from cars” back into buses and trains. This would be for journeys that would be at least twice as expensive for a family and taking twice or three times as long. That is if there is not a strike of train drivers, guards and bus drivers which was not an infrequent occurrence when we did not have our own transport. It was a major bus strike that started to see the end of mass use of the buses.
    When all parties agree on a policy which the public do not like – then you get new parties emerging which reflect the public’s will – see Brexit.

    1. turboterrier
      July 15, 2021

      Elizabeth Spooner

      then you get new parties emerging which reflect the public’s will –

      Can we be that lucky?

      1. graham1946
        July 15, 2021

        Nope, it’s all sewn up and will remain so. Turkeys, Christmas and all that. We tried that one once, a new party got 4 million votes and no seats. That’s how it is and will remain.

    2. Micky Taking
      July 15, 2021

      All these cuts in train services. When are we going to hear about redundancies among train drivers? Good luck with that.

  58. Barbara
    July 15, 2021

    Really, if everybody wanted this nonsense they would have voted Green in huge numbers.

    They didn’t.

    1. Sea_Warrior
      July 15, 2021

      +1.

    2. glen cullen
      July 15, 2021

      +1

    3. MiC
      July 16, 2021

      If everyone wanted brexit then they would have voted ukip too.

      They didn’t.

      1. Peter2
        July 16, 2021

        MiC
        Nonsense
        Didn’t need to vote UKIP when the Conservatives fought the last election on their policy of getting brexit done and gained their huge majority whilst remain focussed Labour slumped to their worst loss since 1935

  59. DavidJ
    July 15, 2021

    The “Net Zero” concept cannot be justified by real science. Of course real science doesn’t suit the government / globalist agenda so must be ignored. The real purpose behind that and other government nonsense is absolute control over us. It is as if the writings of Orwell and Huxley are being used to develop the necessary policies to do just that.

  60. X-Tory
    July 15, 2021

    Idiotic and confused mixed messages are the problem with EVERYTHING this cretnous government does:

    Northern Ireland: First Boris says there will be no paperwork, now Lord Frost admits that the paperwork is so onerous British companies have stopped trading with NI.

    Fishing: First we are told that we will regain control of our waters and our fishing industry will be revived, then it turns out that the EU fishermen are allowed to catch over 8 times as much fish from British waters as British fishermen can catch from EU waters – and supertrawlers are allowed to continue destroying our fish stocks.

    Covid: First we are told that vaccinations will mean that all restrictions will be lifted on 21 June, then 19 July, and now we are told to still wear masks, and show vaccine passports to enter pubs and clubs, and still not be allowed to travel abroad.

    BBC: First we are told that refusing to pay the Licence Fee will be decriminalised, and now that the BBC are appointing even more left-wing journalists than ever, that promise has been completely buried.

    Political oppression: First we are promised a ‘war on woke’, and now even merely criticising those footballers who put left-wing politics before practising penalties sees the government call for your head.

    Illegal immigration: First we are promised that all illegal migrants will be deported, and then … nothing happens and instead they are housed in hotels, while Priti Useless puts forward a Bill that will be impossible to implement (given Human Rights laws) and achieve nothing.

    I could go on but I think you are getting the point by now …

    1. Fedupsoutherner
      July 15, 2021

      X-Tory. Yeah, total bull shit.

    2. NickC
      July 15, 2021

      X-Tory, Very well said on every one of your points.

    3. graham1946
      July 15, 2021

      Bang on the money

  61. mancunius
    July 15, 2021

    ” People will want to know the change planned does not make these things worse for us.”
    Sir John, you came quite close there to the truth, you just need to rejig a word or two:
    ” People will want to know the change *is* planned *in order to* does not make these things worse for us.

  62. Pauline Baxter
    July 15, 2021

    The whole Net Zero policy is totally unrealistic. So not surprising the document contained a contradiction.
    The whole Net Zero policy is completely unnecessary. CO2 is a harmless gas and in fact, essential to life.
    Try to keep ‘them’ focused on sensible things that might help Britain’s economy instead of wrecking it (and many people’s lives as well).

  63. glen cullen
    July 15, 2021

    Has anybody asked the public yet for their opinion

    1. Micky Taking
      July 15, 2021

      It happens at the GE. However, it is always ‘this is what we will do’, never ‘forgive us for the balls-up we made of most things’.

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      July 15, 2021

      We don’t count. It’s only our money they need. Not our opinions.

  64. Bryan Harris
    July 15, 2021

    I’m assuming the government has accepted (yesterday) the document independently produced on behalf of the Department for Transport by Mott Macdonald as it’s official policy. It was completed in March 2021.

    It considers what needs to be achieved over the next 30 years, in terms of technological solutions, to reduce and remove direct emissions from the UK’s domestic transport sector across modes by 2050.

    So although an independent document, the government have accepted it as the way forward – A mix of solutions for decarbonising transport…..
    Link: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/decarbonising-uk-transport-technology-roadmaps

    It is worth taking the document to pieces because this will be our future. Can I request an extra day?

    The roadmaps have been drawn up to reflect credible pathways towards decarbonisation of direct (tailpipe) emissions. Given uncertainty in both the balance of solutions and speed of progress, along with very demanding timescales, achieving this across the domestic transport sector by 2050 is not certain and indeed in some respects is not likely in full.


    This I interpret as meaning that as these changes are imposed upon us, very expensively, we are in for a very bumpy ride.

    1. Mark
      July 16, 2021

      If the government is incapable of producing its own documents it is incapable of evaluating those produced by others. We see that repeatedly on all the net zero issues.

  65. Micky Taking
    July 15, 2021

    OFF TOPIC.
    The government’s wine cellars were topped up to the tune of £73,000 last year – an increase of £26,000 on the year before, latest figures reveal. The wine cellar – run by the Foreign Office – stores alcohol to be served at government events and receptions. Since 2011, the cellar has been funded by the sale of high-value wines and payments from government departments. The government said the spending rise “reflects the fluctuations in currency rates and the needs of the cellar”.

    An increase of £26,000 ? A group of my friends must have run that pretty close …we should be on first name terms in the wine section at Waitrose. Several visits at the buy 6 get 25% off.

    1. graham1946
      July 15, 2021

      Well, Boris has probably used up all the stuff he doesn’t like, so we get Eton taste wines I expect.

      1. Micky Taking
        July 16, 2021

        even those who wouldn’t eat it, all understand about an Eton Mess.

  66. Original Richard
    July 15, 2021

    I haven’t yet read the government’s path to net zero for transport but I am hoping that in its 220 pages we will find the government’s answers for such items as :

    – The total amount of electrical energy required by 2050, taking into account that our government has signed us up to the UN Global Compact for Migration and already is expanding our population by 300,000 each year. So by 2050 we will have at least another 9m people.

    – How this energy will be produced, and, if by renewables such as wind and solar panels, how much land (or sea) will be required bearing in mind that wind for instance requires 1300 times more land than a nuclear power station for the same power output.

    – The plan and costings for upgrading the electrical distribution network and what methods will be used for either backup generation and/or storage.

    – How we will obtain the necessary elements and chemicals when, according to Michael Kelly, Emeritus Prince Philip Professor of Technology at the University of Cambridge, fellow of the Royal Society and the Royal Academy of Engineering, replacing the UK vehicle fleet with EVs will require between half to twice the world’s annual production of cobalt, lithium carbonate, neodymium and copper, all elements and chemicals currently essential for the production of EVs.

  67. Original Richard
    July 15, 2021

    Even if climate change is man-made and we need to reduce our output of CO2 then it makes no sense to be the leaders in this project and thus making all the expensive mistakes whilst our competition benefits not only by adopting the later and more efficient/working technologies but in the meantime continues with the much cheaper existing technology.

  68. ukretired123
    July 15, 2021

    As many folks have observed this “Blue Sky thinking” document burns out when “Reality kicks in” and the “Rubber hits the road” as the engineers are expected to become magicians.
    The diesel-gate scandal exposed how ALL the major premier German engineering companies desperately struggled to make impossible targets set by politicians and the Eco lobby a reality.
    Now they are asking “Mission Impossible”, implausible and no Plan B only Plan Z.
    In project management there is golden rule not to change more than one major foundation at the same time such as location and also your main computer system – a classic recipe for chaos. I fear the Eco bandwagon have listened to their group-think BS and are literally railroading us to a land of make belief.
    Where are the devil’s advocates as you never hear them on MSM.

  69. Ed
    July 15, 2021

    Only two groups support net zero. The first group are the eco loons. The second group are those who, as yet, have not grasped the magnitude of the calamity coming towards us. Net zero can only be described as catastrophic lunacy.

  70. glen cullen
    July 15, 2021

    Why do governments continue with follies and appear unmoved to changed direction in fear of the media backlash…climate change, car ban, police commissionaires, regional mayors, devolved NHS, devolved government, NI protocol, fisheries – the list goes on and on

    1. Micky Taking
      July 16, 2021

      Lobby groups – pure and simple. They have vested interests.

  71. Jacob
    July 15, 2021

    Doesn’t matter now, looking at things from outside and from last weekend the brand sign England name is besmirched – myself am keeping a low profile my head down and don’t understand anything about path to net zeros transport or otherwise

  72. mancunius
    July 16, 2021

    MaybeThe solution is obviously for everyone to buy one of these:
    “Aston Martin unveils its first hybrid supercar – but it needs a recharge after 10 miles
    The 217mph Valhalla will cost around £700,000.”
    Its high speed will make it tremendously advantageous in all the new LTNs, before it has to stop to recharge the engine every 10 miles. And I can’t think of a more appropriately surreal symbol of the government’s energy policy.

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