The news from Afghanistan is worrying. Twenty years after the first military actions by the US and her allies in Afghanistan President Biden announced a rapid withdrawal of US forces. I have no disagreement with the aim of getting out. I agree that the UK also had to leave quickly as soon as the larger US force left. We were a smaller part of a coalition force and had to think of the safety of our forces in a volatile situation. I do have a disagreement with the sudden speed of the USA planned departure, and the apparent shortcomings in reassuring the Afghan government and leaving in place enough advice and support to make their task easier.
It is surprising that given the longer term cross party aim in the USA to leave defence and policing to Afghan forces that more successful plans were not already effective for advice and training of the now considerable Afghan forces. A lot of effort had we are told gone in to allow them to handle any insurgency or violent subversion of the state. There was a good argument to say that keeping foreign forces there for too long to suppress violence could be seen by some Afghans as a provocation that helped recruit more opponents against democratic government. There was an even better argument that at some point to prove Afghanistan has become a self sustaining democracy it has to be left to Afghan people and institutions to defend its new order and to subsume critics within a democratic system to resolve or handle differences. They can of course ask for advice or specialist help from allies, but Afghan forces should take full responsibility for law and order.
Russia and now NATO have found Afghanistan a difficult place for operations. President Biden seems to lack a clear vision of what if any role he wishes the USA to assume in the Middle East. We know he is not as pro Israel and as anti Iran as President Trump, but we do not yet know what he is trying to achieve and how he sees the new threats instability bring in the region.
August 11, 2021
Very worrying indeed I agree. Biden (or whoever is really driving these things in the US) is also very worrying.
August 11, 2021
No one has really ever justified why we were there in the first place. There are a lot of places on earth where the ruling classes are not nice but we don’t invade them. Uyghur Muslims anyone? A lot of our people lost there lives in this pointless war, Blair should but won’t hang his head in shame!
August 11, 2021
+1
August 11, 2021
Afghanistan,vacated by the Soviets, was the consolation prize for the US/NATO after being kicked out of Iran with the Islamic Revolution-giving them proximity to China and USSR/Russia.
August 11, 2021
On the other hand, the “cheese-eating surrender monkeys” – as GWB called them – have done rather well against Boko Haram in W Africa, haven’t they?
August 11, 2021
The odd cartwheel and skipping of light fandango… I’m sure our own SAS could manage that.
August 11, 2021
Good Morning,
Who provides the arms used by the Taliban?
August 11, 2021
good question..the Taliban have now taken over many areas .. is there any hope that they wont achieve total control in Afghanistan?
August 11, 2021
Everyone who invades. The Taliban eventually drive them out and have an arms bonanza
August 11, 2021
MB
“the Taliban have now taken over many areas .. is there any hope that they wont achieve total control in Afghanistan?”
…..let them have it, not our problem.
August 11, 2021
Various sources, including Afghan defence forces leaving them behind when they run away, despite being funded 5-10 times more, with modern weapons including attack helicopters.
The Taliban supply themselves in the form of suicide bombers. The Afghan forces can’t match that. Why would anyone blow themselves up for such a worthless cause?
August 11, 2021
Nah, the Taliban donât commit suicide. Anyone who invades is committing suicide.
August 11, 2021
At a guess Iran, I don’t think Russia with their past experience or China with their anti Muslim stance would support the Taliban.
August 11, 2021
Russia left behind enough weapons to start World War III when the Taliban kicked them out.
August 12, 2021
And the Americans havenât?
August 11, 2021
Pakistan?
China doesn’t have an anti-muslim stance-Xinjiang is the historic trade route out/invasion route into China.The British tried to infiltrate it from India in the late 19th c as it adjoins what was then imperial Russian Turkestan(now Uzbekistan).Watching the increasing decay in the Qing dynasty’s power in China,the British sponsored an uprising by an Islamist adventurer,Yaqub Khan, in Xinjiang province in an attempt to steal a march on the Russians.The Russians,with their greater local knowledge, were more circumspect and refrained from overt interference.
Unfortunately for the British who lost their trading rights and were kicked out and Khan whose head was displayed on a pikestaff, the Qing proved to be not quite as decrepit as thought and cobbled together a sufficiently powerful army to crush the rebellion.
A further attempt was made in the 1920/30s when China dissolved into the chaos of civil war/warlordism/Japanese invasion but Stalin stepped in,taking over the province before handing it back to Mao when he emerged triumphant from the civil war.
August 12, 2021
And where do Pakistan get their weapons from?
Not convinced that this old trade route is of any use to China now.
Maybe ask the Uyghur muslims where China stands on religion.
August 12, 2021
Pakistan’s historic weapons supplier was the USA.
That route is very much of interest to China-high speed rail to Europe-through friendly countries-Kazhakstan and Russia-means possibility of a successful maritime blockade is reduced.
China frowns on religion generally.It ruthlessly stamps out Islamism but has good relations with many muslim states,both Sunni and Shia.There is undoubtedly some repression going on(many Uyghurs were in Syria with the jihadi forces) but hard evidence of the extravagant claims made by the UK/USA has not been presented.There is an immense propaganda war being waged by the globalist west-you can see that from the rubbish that is published re Russia,even in the “quality” press.
August 11, 2021
…and who provides the money to buy the arms?
Rich Arab countries, or elements within them, do
The war was always against the wrong people
August 11, 2021
In 20 odd years I’ve never heard a journalist ask that question; why?
For sure the US, UK etc, know, but it would appear they haven’t had the motivation to do anything about it. I wonder why…
This ‘war’ makes the Vietnam conflict seem well managed.
August 11, 2021
@Peter +1
August 11, 2021
Apparently U.K. declined to follow US in embargo against weapon supply to Saudi and UAE in February 2021. How about lockstep then?
Weapons used as currency by purchasers to buy loyalty of various sectors.
So who knows where they end up.
It is claimed that U.K. weapons ended up with al Quaeda when we supplied the Syrian rebels.
August 11, 2021
The US has abandoned a copious supply which has already been plundered.
August 11, 2021
+1
August 11, 2021
Did not Gordon Brown assure us British troops were in Afghanistan to make the streets at home safer? So what can we expect now, after twenty years of failure as confirmed by President Biden?
August 11, 2021
Indeed. We are not walking away from this without consequences – rather like posting the keys through the building society door.
This war is coming to a street near you by means of rubber dinghy.
Making our streets safer is the total and utter reverse of what has happened. It was a dirty lie, just as every other “we’re doing it for your own good” policy is.
August 11, 2021
Exit the US, enter China.
Biden has no vision nor principle on any matter of any significance. His presence in politics is personal not moral. Almost a conduit for those with a more brutal vision for the US
August 11, 2021
‘Biden has no vision nor principle on any matter of any significance’
I agree but nor does Trump (and seemingly many – perhaps more – Republicans AND Democrats).
I wonder how many Democrats / Republicans actually know of, let alone have studied Cyrus the Great -arguably the greatest political leader in history – a hero at least to the ancient Jews (and then Christians), Romans, Greeks and Persians. A true king in the Jungian sense (and every other sense). And a REAL man – not a mythical figure!
If I had my way, I’d build a great big statue to Cyrus the Great outside the main entrance to The House of Commons – and anyone who wanted to become an MP would have to at read and study at least one book on Cyrus the Great (and MPs would then have to pass a short exam before they could become MPs). I don’t really mean this (although I do think there should be a statue to Cyrus the Great on Parliament Square). But in an ideal world.
How the politicians of the West today fall short of this great Persian Emperor. They are like shadow kings compared to the great king himself: Cyrus the Great.
Reply Mr Trump is no longer in office and Cyrus the Great is long dead. We need to deal with current problems by influencing those chosen for office.
August 11, 2021
For politicians not to know of and have studied Cyrus the Great, is like a samurai warrior not to know of and have studied a great samurai warrior such as Miyamoto Musashi or someone like that.
August 11, 2021
‘Cyrus the Great is long dead’
– sorry, sir, that’s a fallacious argument!
That’s like saying, we’ve got nothing to learn from the following because they are all dead: Mrs Thatcher, Sir Winston Churchill, Queen Elizabeth 1, and so on.
The dead have A LOT to teach us – not about the specific political issues of their time but the UNIVERSAL qualities of political leadership (strategy, tactics, courage, wisdom etc) – which are applicable to ALL ages. That’s the point!
August 11, 2021
And Cyrus didn’t do all that conquering without shedding blood ?
August 11, 2021
@Margaret,
‘And Cyrus didnât do all that conquering without shedding blood ?’
– It’s heresy to suggest the ‘shedding of blood’ is in itself immoral.
Do you think the Brits in WW2 was immoral? No.
There is such as thing as a just war.
The Jews and Christians believed Cyrus was great because he was, overall, a just king and warrior (as well as being a skilled warrior and king). Similar for the Persians, Romans and Greeks (Alexander the Great thought Cyrus the Great was a genius).
August 11, 2021
Also, if Blair had studied and been inspired by Cyrus the Great, then he wouldn’t have made the disastrous move into Iraq (and other disasters). Maybe he did read Cyrus but wasn’t impressed enough by him.
Maybe if Blair really knew what it takes to be a real political leader, like Cyrus the Great, then maybe Blair wouldn’t have entered politics at all – and stuck to law.
August 11, 2021
No, Blair just embroiled us in these wars in order to suck up to Bush. USA’s lapdog, as Luckashenko correcctly said yesterday.
All Prime Ministers since Thatcher, and probably before, are USA’s lapdogs.
To his eternal credit, Wilson kept us out of Vietnam.
August 11, 2021
Are you going through your Persian phase now,Ed M?!
August 11, 2021
@Mitchel,
Cyrus the Great was a (benign) genius! (Yes!!). Both as a Warrior and King.
August 11, 2021
Apologies for banging on about Cyrus the Great – but it’s hard to imagine such a great political leader existed and yet so few people really know about him.
August 11, 2021
Ah, the Victor Sylvester of those days, Ed eh?
August 12, 2021
@MiC
‘Ah, the Victor Sylvester of those days, Ed eh?’
– I wonder what Cyrus the Great would have thought of our political leaders of the 20th century? Hitler, Stalin etc?
The ancient world produced some amazing (although flawed) people, not just Cyrus the Great but also: Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Plato, Pythagoras, Pericles, Socrates, Homer, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Cicero – and Christ.
The Renaissance world knew this – the Renaissance world was founded on the classical world – as the modern world rushes further away from it. The only real advantage we have is technology (but the ancients were great scientists for their era too).
August 12, 2021
‘Christ’ – not flawed obviously nor produced by any era – if you believe him to be who The C of E, for example, officially teaches him to be.
August 11, 2021
Lastly, I have great respect for politicians and Houses of Parliament. I’m a Patriot. But soooo many people I speak to have no respect for politicians at all. They see politicians at the lowest order of the pecking order of respectable jobs. I do my bit to defend politicians and that they need to be respected more.
But at same time, politicians also have a duty to do the best they can to be the best politicians they can – by just doing basic things like understanding the basics of political leadership – not just in theory but from great political leaders such as Cyrus the Great from the past.
By just studying Cyrus the Great alone, for a few hours, many politicians would be greatly inspired – and given a vision – exactly how to lead properly. And the great satisfaction of being a true political leader such as Cyrus the Great. So politicians have to do far more to help themselves if they want to be better connected with and respected by the ordinary voters (and not just to win votes but for a sense of self respect as a political leader – otherwise what’s the point of politics / having political ambition).
August 11, 2021
Mr. Redwood, you are in a far better position than your readers to influence those in office.
Could you see if you could influence the minister responsible for education to end the utter farce that means 40% of pupils get top marks in an exam. It renders the examination results pointless and meaningless.
Is there anything your government is doing well?
August 11, 2021
Mike
This was the big fear last year when the Government attempted to modify the results of teachers marking their own pupils work, problem for the government was they used a faulty computer programme to do the dirty work, and so got criticised for that choice, and had to do a u turn.
When we get back to proper examinations and proper marking by outsiders, standards will be seen to drop, and every one will complain again.
Agree students have had a rough time, with many getting absolutely sub standard teaching, but getting above average rewards as compensation, is not fair on past years, or next years students.
Companies I am sure will take the last two years into account during interviews, or ask students to complete their own in house company tests.
Just like self regulation of anything, many take advantage of that situation schools and teachers are no different.
August 11, 2021
“We need to deal with current problems by influencing those chosen for office”. In Boris’s case his new deluded “green” wife too it seems.
August 11, 2021
Didn’t anybody learn the history and lessons of the Vietnam War
August 11, 2021
‘Didnât anybody learn the history and lessons of the Vietnam War’
– No. Like the political leaders of the Vietnam War hadn’t learned the lessons of history before them. Except the lessons of Afghanistan were even easier: the Russians had been in Afghanistan and failed (as had so many military forces before them). There was no clear REALISTIC goal in Afghanistan. It was a political reaction by politicians who had allowed power to go to their heads – and incapable of thinking straight.
August 11, 2021
Glen, hence the wise advice which almost no-one ever seems to take on board:
if you don’t learn from history, you are condemned to repeat it.
August 11, 2021
‘if you donât learn from history, you are condemned to repeat it.’ – And said by Sir Winston Churchill who was a real student of history.
August 11, 2021
Actually both Churchill and Edmund Burke said something similar, so not just Churchill.
August 11, 2021
Indeed thank goodness Harold Wilson kept the UK well out of it.
August 11, 2021
Seemingly not. The parallels are many. The biggest mistake of late has been to close the American base at Bagram.
August 11, 2021
Lije him or loathe him, Trump was more positive and open about what he wanted to achieve.
August 11, 2021
Trump is sound on energy and climate too – and modest with it too!
August 11, 2021
More deceit and spin as rich as Croesus ex politicians, Blair and Cameron, Bush etc get one with their gilded lives leaving behind the carnage from their useless virtue signalling exercises to impose western values (whatever they are?) on Afghanistan and the Middle East.
And domestically the policy of letting people down continues with its total capitulation to the unions in education, the spin that the âevery one gets a prizeâ grades have the same value as the previous exam driven years is risible and allowing the rip off testing industry to get fat on the back of ordinary families misery whilst lying about the reason for post holiday PCR tests when a very small percentage are sampled for these so called variants.
And the climate tsar swans around the world because face to face meetings have more value (funny the government doesnât think the same for businesses and swans around in a diesel car whilst berating us to go electric âbut he is going to get one next timeâ. Another Minister down at âthe Animal Farmâ
August 11, 2021
+1
August 11, 2021
On more than one occasion you do wonder about the sense of getting involved in the internal affairs of foreign affairs to such a degree you complete air strikes, and have boots on the ground.
I can perhaps understand advice, training, logistic supply support, and the offer of diplomatic help, but we have seen time and time again, the failure of the United Nations on who’s head this should really fall.
August 11, 2021
The withdrawal from Afghanistan marks the end of another failed US military venture, like it’s Middle East predecessors.
August 11, 2021
Not forgetting Korea & Vietnam.
Post WW2 Europe was helped by the “Marshall Plan”.
To paraphrase Paddy Ashdown “don’t go to war unless you can win the peace”
August 11, 2021
Never go into a war unless you are certain of winning the war and winning the peace too.
Unless that is you are being attacked and simply have no choice.
August 12, 2021
I should add, Cambodia & Laos and the CIA in Persia and Indonesia…
August 11, 2021
Prior to the US led invasion the Russians warned that Afghanistan is characterised by warlordism and is unamenable to centralised governance or western style democracy. We have learned that the hard way and now face a resurgence of terrorism from that country. Biden has accelerated that process.
August 11, 2021
Yes, it took a thousand years or more for a consensus to develop in Britain that allowed democratic government. But our politicians think it is as simple as giving the inhabitants of a country a vote. Now our elites work to break the British consensus by importing disparate groups from around the world so they can dispense with the inconvenience of democracy and revert to the ‘good old days’ of masters and peons.
August 11, 2021
I’m still waiting for that democratic government. How about you?
August 11, 2021
Your assessment is Spot On
August 12, 2021
+
August 11, 2021
The Soviets only got involved in Afghanistan with extreme reluctance and against their better judgement.They didn’t go in gung-ho.
August 11, 2021
I see Tory Defence Minister Ben Wallace recently told the Mail he’d quietly pressured other countries to send their soldiers to Afghanistan to replace US troops. Their governments quite liked the idea, but their parliaments rejected it. Tsk tsk, that’s parliamentary democracy for you, how inconvenient for Mr Wallace! Then again, wasn’t parliamentary democracy what we were supposed to be bringing to Afghanistan?
But not to worry: According to Ben Wallace, “we’ll probably be back in 10 or 20 years.” Bringing democracy of course.
August 11, 2021
Biden has other geoplitical issues on his mind just now. Like us, the Americans like to win their wars. After 20 years of fighting a resourceful opponent, $trillions spent and thousands of casualties, he has decided that, as with Vietnam, the war is unwinnable and it is best to pull out.
Britain has been militarily involved in Afghan four times in the last 150 years. We have never been able to prevail. Let us hope that the politicians can learn the obvious lesson from this.
August 11, 2021
Sakara Gold: Politicians learn obvious lessons? You’re having a laugh.
You’ll find it was Donald Trump who decided on the Afghanistan pull-out, and he wasn’t really a politician.
August 11, 2021
Trump said that while leaving Afghanistan is “a wonderful and positive thing to do,” he had set a May 1 withdrawal deadline and added that “we should keep as close to that schedule as possible.”
“I wish Joe Biden wouldn’t use September 11 as the date to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan, for two reasons. First, we can and should get out earlier. Nineteen years is enough, in fact, far too much and way too long,”
August 11, 2021
+1
August 11, 2021
Sakara
“Like us, the Americans like to win their wars”
…..but they don’t usually win.
August 12, 2021
Have they won a war in 200 years? Talking about WW2, my old dad used to say that when the Germans fired the British ducked, when the British fired the Germans ducked, when the Yanks fired everyone ducked.
August 11, 2021
Someone on this morning saying there are around 2.8 million Afghan refugees. All running from a Taliban force of no more than 100,000.
August 11, 2021
Probably less than 50,000 (same size as UK combat troops) but they coercion Afghanistan soldiers to fight for them on pain of torture and death âŠ.their numbers of conscripted/slave soldiers increase â fear is the Talibans biggest weapon
August 11, 2021
Good morning.
You can add our name to that list. Those who forget the lessons from history are doomed to repeat them.
Afghanistan is a country in name only. It is tribal and has not changed socially since the dawn of time. Best thing to do is simply leave them alone.
I don’t think that it is his vision that is impaired IYKWIM đ Anyway, the Democrats are embarking on their on form of culture wars and their ‘March through the institutions – ie New Labour 2.0.
August 11, 2021
Thank you for the messages of support yesterday – I did reply but that dis . . . .
August 11, 2021
Who trains and funds the Taliban troops/fighters?
After twenty years why aren’t the Afghani forces trained and ready to protect themselves by the USA and British forces that were sent out there?
How long do we take to train the British fighters we send there?
How long do we take to train the British leaders who lead the teams more than twenty years?
Have we left the Afghanistan troops with the equipment to protect themselves?
August 11, 2021
The US Army left hundreds of “Humvee” personel carriers behind, adapted to resist the IEDs that killed and maimed so many British soldiers. The Talibs have filled them with fuel and obtained ammunition for the 50cal machine guns on their roofs. This is why their advance has been so rapid.
August 11, 2021
“Sandhurst-in-the-Sand” was modelled on the prestigious Royal Military Academy in Berkshire; it was a gift to Afghanistan that came with a promise: the British trainers would remain for decades to see it through. […] Only once the head of then Afghan Armed Forces was British trained, would they be able to leave, job done. That was what we were all told, at least.
(Alistair Bunkall, Middle East correspondent, Sky News.)
August 11, 2021
The US spends $800 billion a year on military personnel and wizz-bangs (40% of the world total). It makes weapons systems that can reduce other countries to even smaller fragments; but alas, never has been able to “build back better” as some say.
All current war zones are proxies. Two or more opposing regimes fighting it out in someone else’s backyard. Take the complete mess NATO caused in Libya. UN members officially supporting the government in west Libya, while continuing to sell weapons to the government in east Libya. The latter, being supported by members best arms customers; Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates.
August 11, 2021
Since the US and UK have had troops deployed in Afghanistan for 20 years since 2001 I would have thought that this would have been sufficient time for the Afghans to plan for our departure.
Especially as we were informed at the time by the Blair Government that our presence was short-term and it was hoped that we would leave Afghanistan without firing a single shot.
On the other hand it was always a foolâs errand that we could turn this country into a democracy in the space of just 20 years.
And was it right to even try to do this?
August 11, 2021
Its interesting that just a little while back the Taliban as it was then was a friend of the UK. My understanding is we trained them to fight the Soviets. They were even glorified in the movies – James Bond.
Things turned sour once they started providing a safe haven to Al-Qaeda
August 11, 2021
Hard to comment on Bidden I was never a fan.
It is surely wrong that anyone expects the USA to be the World’s Policeman to intervene when other States don’t have the gumption to stand on their own 2 feet. Then wont contribute the same proportion of resources money men and equipment as the US. There is a slight hypocrisy to assume they will always pick up the load and heavy lifting
August 11, 2021
Big tech in the US have put the world in danger.
They have obviously done deals with the Democrats that Trump would not have liked. In return they got their puppet elected.
It is the job of the UK Government to find out who is really running the US and establish a rapport with them. In particular, our security services have to find out who is in charge of the Big Red Button.
August 11, 2021
+1
August 11, 2021
Afghanistan was invaded because of the failure of the Taliban to hand over Osama bin Laden to face charges of orchestrating 9/11 when the only evidence that the US had of his involvement was repeated accusations to that effect during the entirely unexpected event itself.
When Afghanistan was invaded it consisted of tribal areas not a unitary state; however, one of the benefits of Western meddling in other people’s countries is the bequest of a Western friendly central puppet administration.
300 fine Englishmen have died in Afghanistan and many more left with lifetime disabilities in order to further US global belligerence. It is time we had an independent foreign policy driven by British interests. This is unlikely whilst we are unable to elect a government with a popular mandate rather than a Tory/Labour stitch-up whose main foreign policy is total subservience to US interests du jour.
August 11, 2021
It’s hardly a retreat – It is abject surrender
How many native lives will this affect? How many will die?
How many women were growing up in normality that will soon have their freedoms dramatically reduced as the Taliban impose their 12th century society on everyone they will come to rule?
Not even Biden knows what he is trying to achieve, except that it will be more chaotic world.
It would be pointless to have UK forces remain – they would have quickly been overwhelmed, humiliated and defeated. The West with its current inability in terms of diplomacy has no hope of quelling the forces that operate in the Middle East just to spread their virus.
Leaving the Taliban to take over the region will mean more problems for Pakistan, which may yet fall. Meanwhile the Chinese and the Russians are looking to see what influence they can gain from the present opportunities Biden has given the Taliban.
August 11, 2021
//Not even Biden knows what he is trying to achieve//
A video clip of Biden returning to the White House, one of the Presidential security detail points for him to walk down a path which he ignores and walks into the bushes instead.
August 12, 2021
What a horrible thing – walking into a Bush.
August 12, 2021
Pakistan supports the Taliban and has moved from the American camp to the Chinese (and is an important component of the BRI);it even enjoys very cordial relations with Russia now-something which the latter’s close relationship with India had historically precluded.They are all focussed on Eurasian integration,albeit not all with exactly the same agenda.Russia,China,Pakistan and India are all members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
August 11, 2021
So all the previous sacrifices were for nothing?
Perhaps now people will recognise just how great Donald Trump is, there was no way he was getting a second term, and the way that Johnson couldnât wait to welcome Biden to the White House is very revealing thus removing any doubts as to Johnsonâs direction of travel
August 11, 2021
The UK in its little attempt of support of the coalition in Afghanistan did not put in a similar effort to solve the situation. Just in terms of shear numbers the valiant men on the ground were disadvantaged, under equipped and basically sold out by the UK Government. In operational terms the UK base in Afghanistan could at best just defend itself, nothing else, the shortage of numbers meant it did not have the capability to advance and help contain the aggressor. When the UK did retreat the US moved in with vast numbers and was incredibly more effective.
There is an old military thinking when taking on an aggressor in that you always do it with a 10 to 1 advantage.
We must never loose sight the UK’s Army, as highly trained and professional as it is, it is a mere pin prick, a well dispersed pin prick, more a token than a fighting force. Gather them all together and you couldn’t fill Wembley Stadium.
The UK’s ‘taking heads’ believe the numbers should be reduced more. All the while the political commentators call for the Army to be called in for this or that. Latest demand is to line the Army up to fill Supermarket shelves due to the shortage of 2,000 heavy goods drivers. Someone actually believes the UK Army has 2,000 heavy goods driver based in the UK!
Like all professions the actual numbers are a big factor. 40,000 soldiers isn’t 40,000 that can be placed in front of a challenge, there is rotation, there is training, there is 24 hours in a day. 40,000 is at best just 10,000 at anyone time. The UK Army is with all its defences is pitifully small ill equipped and not capable of anything major.
At the other end we are getting massive press coverage for the so-called Navy Carrier task force. A couple of things to note the Fleet Air Arm has almost been disbanded, the fighter planes on board are from elsewhere and manned primarily by the US Marines. The carrier itself is limited in range and has to be refueled every 7-10 days, and as one Chinese commentator pointed out the carrier is not a threat – they only have to sink the supply tanker and they have destroyed its capability.
It all adds up to lazy thinking by Governments as to the purpose of having Armed Forces.
We have a Government that is stuck in a trance as if its the metro left of London that matters in the real world. They are stuck with the concept of a ‘grandstanding virtue signal’, as if it can solve anything.
COP 26 solves nothing it just reinforces the them and us. We can get together you cant. The so-called carbon reductions in the UK will do nothing all the time 50% of the World has another agenda and the UK perpetuates the situation by importing products from areas that produce the bulk of carbon emission – the emissions still happen. What has Government done to ensure the UK can survive in a more polluted warmer World – I would suggest nothing.
We appear to inherit one inept Government after another. The only thing that matters is the economy without a strong vibrant economy we can never build, protect or provide.
August 11, 2021
The civil war in Afghanistan isnât about religion, its about money, power and a warlord land grab
The Afghanistan warlords are just filling the void left by the US military
The Afghanistan government is weak, built on sand and corruption; their government was paid for by the west and not developed for or by the peopleâŠit was always going to fail
August 11, 2021
It is also about the brutal, abusive tyranny, of the physically stronger half of the human species over the lesser so – male over female that is – as we see elsewhere.
August 12, 2021
That’s religion. Even our own CofE and certainly the Catholics still have fits of the vapours over women priests and bishops.
August 12, 2021
A twisted interpretation of a religion is the excuse.
Many people are pretty barbaric.
August 12, 2021
Agree
August 11, 2021
20 years of help crumble within days of us leaving , all that training of their forces comes to nought, their army abscond across the border and their air force pilots do a runner , hopeless, utterly hopeless . We are told the liberal values of women’s education ,elections etc are really valued and the Taliban are really beastly , but no so beastly for the Afghans to fight against them , instead they get to walk into all these regional towns .
Next we will get inundated with Afghan men of fighting age invading our country, happy to avail themselves of the democracy and rule of law we have created, but not willing to fight for their own. We should pack these cowards back to their own country and tell them to fight for it, not sponge off us.
Talking of hopelessness, of the 50 criminals being deported to Jamaica it seems that only 15 are so far going to be on the flight, and no doubt they too will get some HR layers and complaint judge to allow them to stay as well. Talk of the rot in Afghanistan, it seem we have a terminal case of it as well. Your Conservative Government needs to shape up or ship out.
August 11, 2021
We should probably be worried about extreme Islam spreading across from Afghanistan & Iran to nuclear armed Pakistan.
How will the world handle this lethal alliance?
August 11, 2021
The usual way, I’d expect.
August 11, 2021
Afghanistan- graveyard of empires.
If the withdrawal is based on the 2020 agreement between the Taliban and America then we have to watch this space. In the agreement the Taliban promised to cut ties with al Quaeda but al Quaeda has stated that it will continue the war until the US is expelled from the rest of the Islamic world. Is Biden being naive?
The greedy folly of interfering in other peopleâs countries!
August 11, 2021
Judging from the numerous reports by Spectator TV Australia about President Biden’s inability to string a handful of words together to make a real sentence, I doubt if he knows what time of day it is let alone what he is trying to achieve in the Middle East.
You cannot MAKE a foreign country/culture embrace democracy. At best, Afghanistan may become the kind of “democracy” found over the border in Pakistan which is hardly setting the bar very high. I fear that the British efforts, and the many deaths and injuries to our forces stationed there, will be demonstrated in a few years time to have been completely pointless.
August 11, 2021
Donna
“You cannot MAKE a foreign country/culture embrace democracy.”
True, but in any case I don’t think we’re in a position to preach democracy to any country.
August 12, 2021
Why not ? UK has an unbroken tradition of democracy stretching back centuries, itâs just that we have a section of malcontents who donât like the results.
August 12, 2021
depends how you define and experience democracy.
August 12, 2021
property owners, females, voters.
August 11, 2021
Iâm more worried about our lack of retreat from the effects of Pakistan
Pakistan is the staging, funding, training and command & control for the soldiers of the TalibanâŠ.remember where Osama bin Laden was found
August 11, 2021
“President Biden seems to lack a clear vision.”. (full stop)
August 11, 2021
Will China be able to resist filling the vacuum in Afghanistan?
And face the financial consequences? 100 yearsâ war?
They say it didnât do Russia much good!
August 11, 2021
One can but hope that, if the reason for our invasion of Afghanistan was because they allowed Bin Laden to train people there, then, given the Taliban are about to take over, I would assume that someone will say to them:
âLast time we made the mistake of thinking if we got you lot out of power by putting soldiers on the ground and encouraging democracy – then the problem would be solved. Next time we wonât make the same mistake. If you want to live in the Stone Age, thatâs up to you. If you play a part in exporting terrorism to us, we will wipe a city off the face of the earth. Itâs up to you.â
August 11, 2021
It is right for Mr Biden to end George Bushâs war.
Sadly it will result in even more refugees -thousands of whom the Brexit Taliban can rage at in the English Channel next summer.
August 11, 2021
Andy
Fully agree with your first sentence, do not agree with the last.
August 12, 2021
Since when was Afghanistan on the other side of the English Channel ?
August 11, 2021
I hate war. But having got into this war I believe our country should at least honour its commitments.
Any Afghan who translated for or helped British forces should be offered immediate asylum for themselves and their families in the U.K.. I find it abhorrent that this government is trying to weasel out of this commitment in many cases.
There should be no questions. It should be automatic. If you helped British troops – no matter how long you helped for, or how useful you help was – you should be welcome in the U.K.
August 11, 2021
Andy
” I hate war.”
Not good is it.
“Any Afghan who translated for or helped British forces should be offered immediate asylum for themselves and their families in the U.K.. I find it abhorrent that this government is trying to weasel out of this commitment in many cases.”
…….+100.
Then again Andy there are Gurkhas on hunger strike right now outside No 10, thus I think of one word when thinking about the current occupant…….’shyster’, no other word fits.
” If you helped British troops â no matter how long you helped for, or how useful you help was â you should be welcome in the U.K. ”
Absolutely, no question about it.
August 12, 2021
â If you helped British troopââ
You do understand that youâre talking about hundreds of thousand from Afghanistan, Iraq, Belize, Cyprus and Serria LeoneâŠfrom translators, to advisors, to cooks, to security, to cleaners etc
August 11, 2021
+1000
August 11, 2021
Christ, a comment I agree with.
August 11, 2021
When will we in the western democracy’s face up to the fact that some parts of the world will never become prosperous or democratic because their religious and tribal structures will never accept our ways. And no, this is not racist just fact.
August 11, 2021
Completely agree….we need to stop being the policeman for the world
August 11, 2021
What is a âpolicemanâ? Do we have any in this country?
August 12, 2021
They appear via coaches parked in side streets and on overtime pay. Sometimes in regulation blue uniform, other times in bio-hazard or high-viz clothing and threatening poses with automatic weapons. Usually summoned to watch destructive and often violent protests against silly activities, they never intervene but merely watch with interest. Other times they corral elderly pedestrians, or tourists without water for hours ensuring the hundreds of people suffer degrading things like wetting themselves, crying and missing flights, or hospital appointments to deal with life-threatening conditions. On occasion small groups in several vehicles have descended on isolated parks to threaten arrest and eject pairs of females carrying bottles of water and walking within 10 feet of one another.
Best avoided.
August 12, 2021
And there’s me thinking that they’re just road traffic tax collectors
August 12, 2021
glen,
‘road traffic tax collectors’.
Wrong. The highest number of cameras per mile in the world manage to do that very well. Humans not required.
August 11, 2021
It was always going to be so, Sir John.
Muslim states (and particularly those were the likes of Al Quaeda / Daesh, Taliban, Boko Haram operate) do not ‘think’ in terms of days, months or years. Not even Presidential or Prime Ministerial terms of office. Nor even in decades.
They ‘think’ in terms of generations. Those organisations were only ever going to wait for western (or even Russian) forces to leave ………. and then start to reinforce their religious hold over the population once again, and with harsh measures to discourage the population from ‘erring’ from the ways of Allah ever again.
We should not be surprised by what is happening there now. And if we are – then we are stupid.
August 11, 2021
The US actually started all this when they supported and armed Afghan opposition to the Soviets.
They shouldn’t have interfered.
However we are where we are, and I can’t disagree with Biden’s decision to pull US troops out.
August 11, 2021
We can only speculate as to Biden’s mindset, we won’t know for certain what he had for breakfast unti MiC makes an appearance.
August 11, 2021
We can only speculate about anyone’s Steve.
August 12, 2021
we don’t need to speculate about yours, nor the boy wonder’s.
It’s writ large.
August 11, 2021
About the sudden departure of US troops – so think Vietnam and wonder what it was all about? and just then think about what our role was – for instance it was not our first time sending the army to this country – we were there several times in the 19th century but always in the end we had to get out
August 11, 2021
Sir John,
I understand the Defence Secretary has been trying to persuade some of our Nato allies in Europe to send troops to Afghanistan, along with the UK, to replace the soon departing Americans. In this aim he has the support of two conservative MPs, both former soldiers. Sadly they seem to still be living in the last century.
August 11, 2021
A number of nations have tried and paid with gallons of blood and thousands of injured young men and women to try and put Afghanistan on a solid foundation and all have failed.
The country has always been a bandit country and all the time the prime source of income and associated work revolves around the poppy fields the peasants will take the easy option. Ultimately will be the Afghanistan people who will after all these centuries of accepting their fate who will eventually have to stand up to all their aggressors. Tribal law dictates that loyalty is a very fine line no matter which side you are on. With all the technology now available drones and satellite surveillance can seek out the terrorist bases, poppy fields and destroy them with little or no footfall. All the while investment to rebuild the country and at least give some hope and a future to the population.
August 11, 2021
This was the draft letter:
Dear Mr Biden
Congratulations on your victory. Gaining more votes than any previous President and getting above 50% of the popular vote gives you a clear mandate for your policy of uniting the USA.
Your opponent succeeded in boosting his vote by an impressive 8 million extra votes, demonstrating considerable support for his Republican vision of growth promoted by lower taxes, putting America first when dealing with China, promoting peace in the Middle East, and protecting individual liberties. It is a pity he has chosen to query the election outcome without setting out convincing evidence of the voter fraud he alleges. It makes your task of uniting America more difficult. The U.K. respects democratic mandates and agrees with you that the results of counting all the valid votes are the sacred instruction of the people which all true democrats respect.
The U.K. looks forward to working with you as President. Our two countries often find ourselves in agreement. We think NATO remains a fundamental part of our security. The U.K. makes an important financial and military contribution to the Alliance and is willing to help the USA secure similar pledges from other members. We support US efforts to secure peace in the Middle East. Through the 5 Eyes arrangements we co operate closely on intelligence. We agree on the need to be vigilant to Russian and Chinese cyber threats, and to take a robust position over trade cheating.
I must stress that the U.K. does uphold the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland. As we leave the EU we have no plans to impose a hard border between the U.K. and the Republic of Ireland, contrary to false EU rumours. It is the EU which seems to be planning new border controls on their side of the border which you may like to take up with them. The UKâs EU referendum gave us a larger percentage mandate for exit than your own convincing win, so you will understand the importance to us of becoming a truly independent country again on 1 January next year. As such we can be of more assistance in world trade and foreign policy matters, and look forward to working with you where our views and policies align.
Yours sincerely
John Redwood
Reply Yes I remember writing it. What is your problem with it.
August 11, 2021
An observation from India
China is looking to make big-ticket investments in Afghanistan as it is home to one of the worldâs largest unexploited reserves of copper, coal, iron, gas, cobalt, mercury, gold, lithium and thorium, valued at more than US$ one trillion. China has already invested in oil exploration and mining in Afghanistan. In 2011, the China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) won a US$400 million contract to drill three oil fields for 25 years, containing about 87 million barrels of oil.
August 12, 2021
India’s observations concerning China’s motives are bound to be less than objective.
August 11, 2021
Afghanistan Taliban = Return to the dark ages
UK Zero Carbon = Return to the dark ages
August 11, 2021
Some interesting observations from the Indian press
China is looking to make big-ticket investments in Afghanistan as it is home to one of the worldâs largest unexploited reserves of copper, coal, iron, gas, cobalt, mercury, gold, lithium and thorium, valued at more than US$ one trillion. China has already invested in oil exploration and mining in Afghanistan. In 2011, the China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) won a US$400 million contract to drill three oil fields for 25 years, containing about 87 million barrels of oil.
August 13, 2021
Interesting points, thank you. You would have thought that India has a strong incentive to be doing more to prevent its progressive strategic encirclement by China in South Asia. But I suppose they have been happy to do nothing in Afghanistan given the US/NATO presence for a long time now: old habits die hard.
August 12, 2021
American air support will play some part in resisting Taliban control, for example at border crossings. The Afghan Government has to win hearts and minds. My guess is that the main hope here is to ‘weaponise’ women. Women cannot possibly welcome the restricted life that the Taliban plans for them – wear the Burka, no education, stay in the kitchen and the bedroom, make lots of babies.
August 12, 2021
Sadly, I suspect few Afghani women or girls would have the mental or physical strength to fight against the extreme views of the Taliban and their ilk.
August 12, 2021
We taught them utter athiest woke garbage. We could have taught them Christianity.
August 12, 2021
Having been taken to task repeatedly, as has the USA, for being colonial and imperialist I would have thought praise for this swift withdrawal would have been in order. Youâll struggle to find many voters who would support further UK involvement there and so there shouldnât be any.
August 12, 2021
So all the fancy weapons failed against determined peasants?
August 13, 2021
If you think fighting the Taliban staffed by peasants in fields with brooms, you couldn’t be more wrong.
August 13, 2021
My personal opinion is that I’m glad policymakers have faced-up to the reality of the situation in Afghanistan and taken the (difficult) decision to withdraw.
I hope that they will do a better job of learning the lesson from Afghanistan, which is the same one that should have been learned from Vietnam: it is extraordinarily difficult to build up the determined fighting capability of a foreign state if political alignment between leaders and the people is so weak that foreign-supported political challengers are circling. There’s an irony here, I suppose: those states where political suport and structures are healthy are the ones where such aid can make a difference but equally are the ones where it’s not generally needed.
I really do wish that Ministers at the MoD would take a moment each morning to read the brass-plate by the (immense) front doors and remind themselves that the Ministry should concern itself with Defence, not Well-meaning Foreign Interventions.