The government this week moved to honour its Manifesto promise to tighten up on fraud at elections. There have been cases of impersonation, harvesting postal votes by individuals who wish to dictate the voting intention, influencing people to vote in a particular way through undue pressure or power over them, and voting more than once in the same general election by those with more than one residence.
Central to the government’s response is to introduce the need for voter ID at polling stations, to cut out impersonation and vote theft. Controlling postal vote abuse is more difficult, though modern postal votes are addressed directly to the named voter and do include the double envelope system to encourage proper checks on the eligibility to vote and to give people the chance of privacy of their ballot. These precautions do not prevent a residential home manager or a dominant parent or guardian intercepting or influencing someone’s vote in their care.
The government has allowed EU citizens exercising their right to stay here to continue to have a vote in local elections. New arrivals from EU countries will only gain such a right if their country offers a similar right to UK citizens living in their country.
Some express concern about the requirement to show ID to vote. As most other things we do today requires us to prove identity or enter through password controlled systems it is difficult to claim people will find this difficult. As someone who does not welcome more controls and use of passes, I do think voting integrity is crucial. I accept the need to have strong security on work computers for example requiring my ID to enter and would regard the integrity of the vote as very important. There have been enough cases of voter fraud to warrant some action to tighten up. Is this enough?
September 9, 2021
Any electoral system that gives a you a choice between Brexit or Corbyn is not, in my view , worth saving. ID to vote is a good idea and actually can we have ID cards , it would be so much easier and , as I am not a criminal, I have nothing to worry about.
September 9, 2021
+1
September 9, 2021
That’s a very strange analogy. Brexit or Corbyn ! I voted for brexit in a democratic referendum … I didn’t vote for Corbyn in a democratic general election. I don’t regret either vote, but I do regret bigots trying to conflate the two.
September 9, 2021
There was never a vote of Brexit or Corbyn. The vote simply was about EU rule or no EU rule. No other option was on the voting paper
September 9, 2021
I assume Newmania is implying that voters may have reluctantly voted for Corbyn in December 2019 in the hope of reversing the referendum decision to leave the EU.
September 9, 2021
Probably more tightening of postal voting is needed, there is clearly extensive fraud especially among particular groups in certain labour areas. I would restrict it to people who have a valid reason, are ill or are away. They should also publish voting for postal and in person votes to see if there is any significant difference in the direction of votes cast.
Then again if the Tory party publish a manifesto full of promises and then do the complete opposite as they have done with Boris, May, Major and Cameron then what on earth is the point? Not even any serious back bench rebellion – pathetic and totally misguided. So much waste that could be cut, but no they would rather wreck the recovery with these tax borrow and piss down the drain policies and with the net zero lunacy on top.
September 9, 2021
âThe government this week moved to honour its Manifesto promise to tighten up on fraud at elections.â
The irony in this initial sentence.
No sign of tightening up on fraudulent party manifestos though.
September 9, 2021
+1
September 9, 2021
+1 – or indeed just doing things that work for a change. Tax increases and state monopoly healthcare do not work.
September 9, 2021
Your first para is the real issue. Duplication, fraud, and manipulation of votes from a family need proper ID shown at a Polling station.
September 11, 2021
The stats for such offences completely contradict your claim.
September 9, 2021
+2
September 9, 2021
LL – Postal voting is the biggest fraud ever, DELIBERATELY introduced by Globalist Blair. And which sector abuses postal voting the most – Say no more.
September 11, 2021
Evidence please.
Such claims were made about the Peterborough by-election.
No evidence was found, but sadly the claimants were not charged with Wasting Police Time.
September 9, 2021
Off topic
Home Secretary Priti Patel has reportedly defied French officials by instructing the Border Force to turn away migrant boats from British waters.
Iâll believe it when I see it, this should have been done years ago, parties are put into protect the people of this country not invading entityâs so letâs hope Priti is as good as her word and turns these migrants round and speeds up sending the ones who have landed on our shores back to Europe
September 9, 2021
Mick.
I don’t believe that will ever happen. We have been promised action for months, but nothing happens.
I believe it is just a delaying tactic, to quell the uproar that is building among the general public.
September 9, 2021
We have been promised action for YEARS and not just on illegal entry. All academic really anyway because this Government carrying on from Cameron’s/May’s and of course Blair’s will make it all ‘legal’ soon anyway.
It might be quicker to just send out planes full of British passports and blanket drop them throughout the world with a note saying arrive as and when you please, if you come via France we’ll pick you up in the channel.
September 9, 2021
Its costing ÂŁ1.4 billion and rising to support these unknown men annually. A flight home is cheaper than years in 4* hotels. Is the true reason for the tax rises from this dishonest Government?
September 9, 2021
C G
Agreed, they will just jump off the dinghy and into the water to be rescued.
No Asylum claims should be allowed at all by people who have entered our Country without an invitation.
For those who do not comply, the only way is immediate return from where they came, or a return of even greater distance to somewhere else or their home Country.
We currently finance Camps for refugees near to troubled lands where people can apply for asylum, so send all arrivals to that location.
Where there is a will there is always a way.
No more excuses.
September 9, 2021
Park a floatel off the south coast. All illegal migrants to be taken directly there
All to be fingerprinted and DNA taken. Processed and assessed for the legality of their claim for asylum.
Genuine asylum seekers welcomed
Illegals to be transferred to a permanent floatel until they are found residence other than in the UK.
JF
September 9, 2021
CG – it is all part of the Globalist plan. There is no intention (at this time) to prevent it.
Hopefully when the World Wakes up and it is waking up, the situation will change.
September 9, 2021
It will not happen, Boris, bureaucrats or the courts will surely stop her if she does try it. No political will, so the problem will get larger and larger. Soon Boris will want a hypothecated illegal immigrant tax too. The Sunak measures so far have already given us (effectively) about a 6p rise on income tax. This starting from absurdly high tax rates with generally piss poor public services too.
September 9, 2021
@Lifelogic – Boris has even suggested an amnesty for illegals
September 9, 2021
More hot air. Not one illegal has been deported and no boats will be turned round.
Anchor a derelict ship in the channel an put them on that and watch the numbers drop.
September 9, 2021
Ian Wragg
Well said. It was good enough for HMS Maidstone an old submarine depot ship to be used in Belfast during the troubles.
September 9, 2021
This, or an island is the only solution that will prove operable (and even then the handwringers will decry the conditions so must be ignored). The first passenger who dies after being turned round will lead to untold had wringing and calls for even easier ways for the influx to happen.
We need a migrant ship or island where they can be (slowly) processed and returned to a paid for camp in Africa (doesn’t matter where they came from they have made themselves stateless).
September 9, 2021
This government is not interested, they have obviously entered into a global pact to take so many asylum seekers, they couldn’t fly here so someone is making all these boats and selling them, they could find them if they wanted to.
There have been plenty of old cruise boats without any work for months on end, they could have been processed on without being allowed to roam. London will be overwhelmed soon.
September 9, 2021
Ian Wragg : “Anchor a derelict ship in the channel and put them on that and watch the numbers drop.”
Yes, for all those illegal migrants who come without any documents, we should keep them on a ship in the Channel and say we will not allow them to come ashore and apply for asylum until they produce ID.
We must stop inviting illegal migrants to come to the UK with offers of 4 star hotel accomodation, ÂŁ40/week pocket money and the freedom to roam our streets until they abscond.
September 9, 2021
OR
We already spend ÂŁ1 Billion a year funding a refugee camp in the Lebanon, simply send them there and tell them to make a proper application., then we only have one travel cost to pay for, not board and lodging.
The word will soon get around that crossing the Channel and illegal entry is pointless.
September 9, 2021
Snap! I hadn’t seen your post, great minds etc…
JF
September 9, 2021
I don’t think this will happen. We don’t have enough patrol boats out there anyway. As soon as one boat gets into difficulties they will abandon those plans anyway. More hand wringing.
September 9, 2021
We donât need a flotilla of patrol
boats, we just need the MCA to monitor proprietary marine satellite images and intercept small vessels that stray in our direction. We should also be reminding the French Navy that theyâre already in breach of maritime law by not rescuing migrants in their waters, they canât all suddenly be âat riskâ when they cross over the border when they werenât at risk minutes or even hours earlier, the Channel isnât the Bermuda Triangle.
September 9, 2021
How many times can someone lie and still be believed?
They had us on a piece of string re the EU for 40 odd years.
Surely lessons have been learned?
They are doing as they are told!!
September 9, 2021
Exactly Everhopeful.
Next, we will be told they don’t have equal representation in jobs and on the tv adverts and we must share more.
September 9, 2021
+1
September 9, 2021
A better idea is NOT to send them back to Europe, but to a bribed Third World country outside of Europe. After any medical treatment and a cursory ‘asylum’ hearing before a single judge, give them a choice of returning home (with our assistance if necessary) or forcible transfer to their ‘new’ country. Nobody needs to be put ‘at risk’ in boarding actions at sea. We could even have a partnership with France to give similar treatment to those squatting in France without making an asylum claim. Trying to return them to France not only means fighting the French but allows the smugglers to activate their ‘second crossing if the first fails’ guarantee.
September 9, 2021
It’s just more talk. Nothing will be done. She will back down at the least resistance as will ‘Boris’ the gutless blusterer. O
Our country is lost with these Tories, as expected.
September 9, 2021
Mick : âOff topic
Home Secretary Priti Patel has reportedly defied French officials by instructing the Border Force to turn away migrant boats from British waters.â
With up to 1000 illegal migrants a day, 90% + who are young men of fighting age, at what point does the Government believe this is an invasion and decide that the MOD/the military should be dealing with this issue instead of the Home Office?
September 9, 2021
I don’t know why she will take on the bad press from this, she has no intention of doing anything and it is unfair of this government to put all this on one person’s shoulders. They should all be concerned and act to sort this out instead of letting Pretty take a constant battering when they are collectively responsible for turning the other way.
September 9, 2021
‘speeds up sending the ones who have landed on our shores back to Europe’
Have any been sent back?
September 9, 2021
dito – now thats Funnier than Andyâs daily laugh
September 9, 2021
It is a moral travesty that both parties have passed laws to prevent a full and open debate taking place on issues such as this. We all know who is committing this appalling abuse of our electoral system and yet your party actually works with one of the perps ie Labour, to stop the man in the street under the threat of criminal prosecution from publicly pointing the justifiable finger of blame at those who’ve been scamming votes since Blair slithered into power in 1997.
Protecting democracy from scammers both within and without official political activity is a matter for the public. The political interests of the Tory and Labour parties sink into meaningless when compared with the primary aim of preventing open abuse of our democracy
Of course the Tories nod to this voting scam if it excludes political competition from Parliament as we saw at Peterborough.
So this policy development is the Tories protecting the Tory party in relation to Labour but it does nothing in generating electoral competition to both main parties who arrogantly believe they have the democratic system sown up
With Gove removing the Electoral Commission’s role in the licencing of political parties the Tories have also become the gatekeeper to who and who cannot compete at each GE and by-election
Replacing one divine scammer for another. Nowt ever changes
September 9, 2021
I wasn’t aware of Gove’s electoral commission decision making, though it does explain why at least one potential party has been denied a licence.
So it must have been done with Johnson’s approval. Mussolini and CeauÈescu would be proud.
September 9, 2021
Well said
September 9, 2021
You surely aren’t going to claim that the Electoral Commission is fit for purpose? Designing a replacement is not easy if you wish to break the mould of the established parties. New parties need some sort of right to a fair hearing. At the same time you have to consider what to do about extremists. Many mainstream politicians seem to be taking some extreme positions- in support of net zero, for instance.
September 9, 2021
Everything about this government is about the drip, drip, drip introduction of ID cards and control; the EU has taught them well. We’re being softened up on the overall principle of carrying ID card and all those “heavy hearts” nestled comfortably on the Green and Red benches will nod it through; it’s writ LARGE. Why fill your wallet with all those different IDs when one “convenient” card can do it all, eh? You can never stop fraud and ID cards will be no different and our freedoms will have been lost for nothing. I suppose we could all be microchipped at birth…………..think I’m joking?
September 9, 2021
+1
And the establishment certainly doesnât appear to want to stop crime.
Yes! I thought those âheavy heartsâ could have come straight out of a Dickensâ novel.
September 9, 2021
+1. This is the thin end of the wedge, and frightening.
September 9, 2021
If I recall correctly, there was some talk about a voting card with photo, but that fizzled out.
That aside, as far back as I can remember voter ID used to be the electoral card you received through the post, but for some reason this is no longer required. Bring this requirement back. This would alleviate the need for an ID card, which I am sure the Johnson regime would like to include the jab passport. However there are problems with that, as it would create an a partite voting system that discriminates against those who are exempt. It also doesn’t answer the multiple address problem, though perhaps introducing a ‘main address’ system would help, nor will it address the cohesion problem. However, that problem is the direct result of politicians wanting to “rub the Right’s nose in diversity” along with all the avid ‘diversity’ supporters.
Postal voting should be returned back to the original system, there was very little postal fraud then.
Ultimately at the end of the day, politicians are going to have to recognize we are not all equal (jobs and associated pay being 1 example) but fairness to everyone is achievable. One country, one law and the same rules for all. Or whether they continue pampering to noisy minority factions and carry on creating rods for their own backs.
September 9, 2021
Sorry, but the electoral card you get through the post at elections is NOT required when you go to vote, and wasn’t in all the years I worked as a teller at polling stations.
September 9, 2021
I can only speak from my experience and others I know. I have been asked to show this card in 9 different constituencies between the South East and Scotland over a period spanning 40+ years. Why? Because I suppose it basically proved who I claimed to be.
September 9, 2021
Certainly you are asked for it as it may make the clerk’s job easier, but you do not HAVE to present it to vote, and many people do not.
September 9, 2021
J Bush. I’ve never had to show my card in Scotland or the W Midlands.
September 9, 2021
+1
Agree entirely.
I was just reading about that particular meeting. The guy came away feeling that they wanted to rub our noses in diversity. I hadnât known before who actually attended. They gave away something that was not theirs to give. And we are still seeing the results.
It always reminded me of a deceased local councillor I knew who told me he had been at a meeting the previous night to decide what would happen to the rest ( the fields) of ( this town).
September 9, 2021
Why would the âgovernmentâ want to honour this particular manifesto pledge when it blatantly ignores others? Manifesto pledge indeed! Good grief.
The pledge not to raise taxes? Get us free of the EU? Take back control of our borders�
We know this âgovtâ lies with every word it utters. No jab passports etc etc etc etc. No credibility more like!
This is just a new way of getting ID cards imposed I would imagine. Or is it to use technology for voting? Something truly horrible no doubt.
Just stop postal voting and any block voting that might exist.
September 9, 2021
Protecting and expanding the power of the Tory party is now Johnson’s only priority. It is testament to the decency of Mr Redwood and his moral and democratic values that he sees this even though on some issues he does fall into line out of party loyalty
Come on John, resign your seat and let’s have your warts and all autobiography ala Alan Clark!!
September 9, 2021
You should watch Michael Portillo’s documentary on the Tory party. Gaining and retaining power has always been the number one priority of the Tory party. What is done with that power has always been secondary to having it.
September 9, 2021
Are the other political parties fundamentally very different?
September 11, 2021
Absolutely – simply because it prevents anyone else occupying that office who might address the historic injustices afflicting the people of this country, which the Tories are dedicated to preserving and perpetuating.
September 9, 2021
+several billions.
Oh YES!
Thatâd fix âem!!
September 9, 2021
Mass postal voting is obviously open to fraud. It should be restricted to those who cannot attend a Polling Station for reasons of age; disability or absence/distance. It is also about time that Constituency sizes were equalized, with a variation of no more than +/- 3%.
What I am more concerned about is the blatant FRAUD of voting for a Conservative Government and then having a Socialist-Green one imposed on me.
September 9, 2021
+1
I canât see why such horrific and horrendous FRAUD should not be prosecuted.
WellâŠexcept I suppose, that our law courts arenât up to much.
September 9, 2021
+++ to your last paragraph.
September 9, 2021
Seconded
September 9, 2021
The Labour party hypocritically rejects suggestions of voter ID for national and local elections but demands ID for voting at its meetings and conferences.
September 9, 2021
Oh ho!
WEF has an article stating that a Democrat candidate failed to win The US election because poorer voters could not afford time off work, or find the fares to get to the polling station. This apparently led to what was regarded as a disaster by the Left.
The answer of course is digital voting.
Soooo incredibly secure of course! So reliable.
Is that the way ODLâs âŠumâŠ.mind is being led?
September 9, 2021
I vote digitally for many things. As a shareholder, I’ve voted digitally at company AGMs. As a member of various organisations, I vote digitally at AGMs, for directors and members of various other bodies in those organisations. I keep the register of electors entries up to date digitally.
September 9, 2021
From The Guardian. March 2015
Jason Kitcat â leader of Brighton and Hove City Council â isnât a fan of e-voting (nor is his party).
âThrough working on this I came to the conclusion, now shared by most computer scientists, that e-voting cannot be delivered securely and reliably with current technology. So I stopped developing the system but continued to campaign on and research the issues,â he said.
( He developed GNU.FREE an online voting system.)
No doubt this âgovernmentâ will totally trust any new and convenient science which gives a thumbs up to online voting ( itâs cheaper) and force it on us should they so wish!
September 9, 2021
“Current technology” and a quote from 2015. Technology moves fast and innovates a lot. Estonia has been offering online voting as an option for well over a decade now.
September 9, 2021
Thatâs why I said ânew and convenientâ. Obviously current to 2015..why do you think I put the date?
If this govt wants to do something it will not listen to any sane advice. Things have moved on from a position of sanity.
In 2014 up to 25% voted online in Estonia. That figure has apparently risen to about 50% in 2019. Back in 2014 there were grave concerns about the security of the voting.
Now it is being hailed as a means of fighting covid!
ie keeping us in our homes!
It is just part of The New Normal.
Lovely.
September 9, 2021
You say there have been “cases”. You don’t say how many. It’s 2, maybe 3. Funny how you oppose vaccine passports but demand ID for voting. Straight out of the Republican playbook, you are trying to suppress poor and black people’s votes. Shameful
September 9, 2021
Racial bullshit.
September 9, 2021
@GM Exactly how does requiring someone to present a photo ID suppress poor and black people’s votes?
September 9, 2021
In 2019, 595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution. (source: Electoral Commission).
Yet, in the 2019 general election, of the 32 million votes cast, only 9.4 million votes (just 29.2% of the total) determined the result. Yes, less than a third of the votes cast actually counted for something, the other two-thirds plus were a waste of time.
If this government were serious about democracy in the UK, it would deal with the fact that most of us have no say in UK democracy because of the electoral system. The fact that it wishes to defend and extend a system which renders most of us irrelevant says a lot about what it really thinks about us.
September 9, 2021
Red herring alerts
There are two separate problems you raise Peter
One is your preference for a PR system of voting.
The other is fraud due to postal voting.
The problem with voter fraud us that it us very difficult to detect and even more difficult to secure a conviction in a court of law.
However there have been several important cases and I am unimpressed with the performance of the Electiral Commission
It seems the rules make it easy to abuse postal voting.
September 10, 2021
Worrying about fraud is surely linked to its ability to impact the outcome, and given that the vast majority of votes have zero impact on the outcome, it is perhaps less of a concern than if the UK used a system where every vote did actually count for something in the result.
If someone wished to try and use my vote fraudulently, I would question their sanity and intelligence for engaging in such a worthless activity under the UK electoral system.
September 10, 2021
If it swings an election in a few constituencies then it can have a big overall impact
I’m not impressed by your relaxed attitude Peter
Especially as you keep telling us how the result of the election is in the hands of just a few swing constituencies.
September 10, 2021
I’m far more interested in having a real democracy where we all have an equal say.
September 11, 2021
Fine.
But if fraud is prevalent then whatever system the election is held under you do not get a proper result.
September 9, 2021
Gary, the next move will be to reduce the number of polling station, just like the Republicans are doing in the USA. Naturally, the reductions will be in Wards that have a habit of not voting for the Conservative Party.
September 9, 2021
More fantasy conspiracy theories from you acorn.
The Electoral Commission organises polling stations.
Not the government.
September 10, 2021
Wrong as always Peter2, but it would be pointless explaining the system to you.
September 10, 2021
Your fantasy conspiracy theory statement requires some proof.
You have proof I presume acorn?
PS
Are you actually claiming the Electoral Commission (or opposition parties) would just allow your scenario to take place?
September 10, 2021
Although the Electoral Commission has the responsibility for running elections, the practical aspects of getting a Presiding Officer, poll clerks and organising the place where polls are held is left to the local councils/authorities dealing with that particular constituency.
Taking the Wokingham constituency as an example, there were about 30+ polling stations in the last two GEs. Even limiting the average number of polling stations per constituency to half that, that would still make 650*15 = 9,750 of them.
So say 10,000 polling stations âorganised by the Electoral Commissionâ?
Really, P2?
September 10, 2021
Yes really H1
Do you therefore agree with acorns conspiracy theory or not?
Or do you think that it would result in the media, the Electoral Commission and opposition political parties would mount a huge legal challenge to acorns fantasy scenario.
September 9, 2021
What are the objections to ID cards? You have a NI number which is unique. Stick that on a card with your photo – whatâs the issue?
September 9, 2021
Agree Mike. It’s no different to a passport or driving licence. Nobody minds producing those when required.
September 9, 2021
They won’t be free. Eighty pounds was the suggested price when Blair put them forward. I suspect that figure would rise now. Another nice little earner for the gangster state plus, all that extra lovely data.
September 9, 2021
There isnât such a thing at the moment. The issue is the expense. It costs ÂŁ75 to get a passport – plus postage and photos. That is a lot of money for some people – particularly when your Brexit is massively increasing prices. We donât all get hundreds of pounds a month in pension handouts.
If you are poor the cost of a passport or driving licence is prohibitive. This means poorer people and those from minority communities are disenfranchised by voter ID. These groups are also less likely to vote Conservative.
So the Tories are disenfranchising people who are more likely to vote for other parties. It is effectively cheating – particularly as electoral fraud is all but non-existent in this country. But cheating and lies is now all they have left.
September 9, 2021
Twaddle
An seperate ID card can be obtained for ÂŁ15.
September 10, 2021
Yes and no, what you are talking about is the ÂŁ15 âIDâ card, the proof of age card, called Citizen Card, offered by the NPCC (National Police Chiefsâ Council) often asked/required from teenagers not looking their 18 years when entering pubs.
Try to use that to do anything official with such a card, youâll be asked for much other proof of your identity, address, DoB, etc.
Have you ever been overseas with such a card?
September 10, 2021
Did andy suggest the card would be needed to go abroad?
I though he was moaning that you needed to have a passport costing ÂŁ75 to vote.
Read it again hef and have a think.
September 10, 2021
Couldn’t the ‘poor’ approach the nearest little old lady in the street with her battered carrier bag, a small loaf, can of beans and left over veg, pleading for ÂŁ75 to buy an ID? They all live in rent free mansions, after all!
September 9, 2021
Who told you that NI numbers are unique? Whitehall will tell you that enough NI numbers have been issued for the current resident population, on average, to share three NI numbers between two citizens. A better identifier would be your UTR (Unique Tax Reference) and your NHS Number. The latter you will shortly need for your vaccine passport which, I am expecting, will be a fudged copy of the French “passe sanitaire”, which has been a big hit for Macron.
Macron told the French that if they didn’t have a “passe sanitaire”, there would be a lot of places they couldn’t go and a lot of fun things the wouldn’t be allowed to do. Did the trick. Even 66% of Secondary School kids have turned up for their first vaccination already.
Imagine having a Head of State that knows how to kick the arse of his own citizens for their own good.
September 9, 2021
More odd arguments from you acorn.
If you add up the total number of NI cards ever issued since the beginning of the scheme then that will be an excess because many will be dead.
September 10, 2021
A totally meaningless statement: what does it prove? You could say that about any series of numbers/identifiers that have ever been issued and expire after a while because people have left school or uni, moved, left the country, got married, died, âŠ
September 10, 2021
Oh sorry hef to cause you extra work
I wasnt looking to prove anything.
But I think it is meaningful because it helps explain why there are more NI numbers issued that one might expect.
I think you should aim your post at acorn who doesn’t understand why this situation exists.
September 9, 2021
I object to the current system where they send you a polling card with a unique number on it. When you go to the polling station they give you a ballot paper with that number on it. If they wanted to they could find out how you voted.
September 9, 2021
Ballot papers are numbered and retained for some years for a good reason: it is necessary proof if a serious case of fraud is reported. It would require an immense amount of work for some malign entity to try and identify how Mr M Wilson voted.
September 9, 2021
Mr. Redwood- why the change to the powers of the Electoral Commission?
Itâs nice when some things are independent of government.
September 11, 2021
I think that you know the answer to the question that you ask.
September 9, 2021
I fail to understand why this issue is judged to be so important that taxpayers money is going to be spent solving a “problem” that apparenty does not exist
This from the Electoral Commission:-
“In 2017, there was one conviction and eight suspects accepted police cautions.”
“In 2018, there was no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud.
Of the 266 cases that were investigated by the police, one led to a conviction, and two suspects accepted police cautions.”
“There remains no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud in 2019.
595 cases of alleged electoral fraud were investigated by the police. Of these, four led to a conviction and two individuals were given a police caution.”
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/our-views-and-research/our-research/electoral-fraud-data
September 9, 2021
Sakara Gold :
We all know that the Electoral Commission is not fit for purpose.
In 2018 a High Court judgement described the Electoral Commission as âunconstructiveâ, âarbitraryâ and lacking âany rational basisâ for its actions and ruling that the Electoral Commission itself does not understand electoral law.
So just because the Electoral Commission has not reported extensive voter fraud does not mean that it does not exist.
Furthermore we should be supporting womenâs rights by ensuring they can vote in the privacy of a voting booth in person and thus cannot be bullied into voting for whom they do not wish via corrupt postal voting practices.
September 9, 2021
How far a relatively peaceful nation with trust in one another through deep rooted connections and culture has fallen.
I’m sure we can all recall elections of old whereby you trusted those officiating and those in your street to do the right thing, even if they did put up a poster in their window or placard in their garden showing a different voting preference to yourself.
Now no one trusts anyone and we are expected to prove who we are, treated like children or criminals in the land of our forefather’s who toiled, fought and died to give us such a home.
There are parts of this Country now where people are too terrified to put a poster in the window or placard in their garden, for fear of being attacked.
The mainstream media and assorted groups go on the attack of those political parties/individuals not in the establishment who try to bring about change and/or crack the duopoly and we are told we have democracy and choice.
Why should we have to throw everything away, things we are told we should open our doors to millions to come and take benefit of, all the while they are being chipped away at for us it seems.
Why should we surrender to having to have ID cards and prove who we are just because it is easier to handle the mess created by the British establishment, their ‘managed decline’ of the nation.
It is surrendering just as if we have to have a permanently armed police force on our streets would be proof of surrender to criminals because our nation has been so utterly smashed to pieces by successive Labour/Conservative Governments so much so that there is no longer control and it is the law abiding that pay the price for that.
As many from my parents generation have said, was it really all worth fighting for given what has been done here since the end of WW2 because it seems just about everything they did fight for is going down the pan swiftly.
Why should I have to prove who I am when day upon day people are pitching up on our shores with no ID whatsoever, actively being encouraged to throw away anything that could identify them or where they have come from ( and that people, has been going on for years) Why are people being allowed to go out and instruct these people in how to scam the system.
Millions of illegal’s seem to be getting by just fine here without any ID at all, now I have to prove who I am just to collect a parcel from the post office!!!!
Is it just me or is something terribly wrong here.
September 9, 2021
Passports need to be cheaper, and issued more quickly, as waiting weeks for a new passport is becoming a very big deal for everyone.
September 9, 2021
A third of US voters believe that Joe Biden was only declared the winner of the 2021 presidential election because of voter fraud.
I donât know whether it was a result of voter fraud or not.
Nor can anyone else!
It is irrefutably clear that there were major failures in controls throughout the election process from the maintenance of electoral rolls, through the legislative process to change voting practices, and the supervision on voting day, to the count itself.
Such failures in control make it impossible to know for sure whether or not the reported counts accurately reflected the views of the electorate.
Any trust in government is impossible if a third of the electorate believe that there was decisive electoral fraud.
The system has to be simple and transparent, in order for the people to be convinced that it is accurate.
Simplicity means that there cannot be lots of exceptions. For example, I would ban all postal voting. And organise voting in person by the military in overseas bases, supervised by the military with results transmitted to the respective home electoral offices. Yes it means some bedridden people would be disenfranchised. That unfortunate loss is worth it, if the alternative is to undermine the integrity of the entire system.
September 9, 2021
My reservation would be that we have the most controlling Government ever to visit this country, for them to issue State ID’s has undertones of the worst of the worst. There of course will be mission creep by the authorities, with more State funding for control and manipulation of the People.
What ever the well meaning start out position is this Government has a record of distorting it for control – in fear of its people. It no longer serves but dictates
September 9, 2021
Are all these refugees going to end up eventually with a vote?
Will we be following Denmarks lead that all of the immigrants will have to work for 36 hours a weeks to pay towards their keep?
Answers on a postage stamp!
September 9, 2021
Well I suppose we should be pleased that Johnsonâs Government intend to honour one of itâs manifesto commitments but we wonât hold our breath. As for â Controlling postal vote abuse is more difficult,â the answer is simple to all but this incompetent Government. Ban all postal voting except for the elderly and infirm who are unable to get to the polling booth. If people canât be bothered to get off their aâ-s and get themselves down to the voting station then they lose their right to vote.
September 9, 2021
What about people who have got off their a***s to find work and get a job in another part of the country and are therefore away from home from Monday to Friday for example? Would you happily exclude all those people too (assuming they lived in one of the few constituencies where voting actually makes a difference so it would be worth them actually bothering)?
September 9, 2021
Of course not but it is a well known fact that the number of postal voters is growing rapidly and many now just see it as the norm to vote from home from the comfort of their armchairs when the polling station is only down the road. Correction to above. Elderly, unfirm and all those unable for genuine reasons to get themselves down to the polling station. This still leaves the majority who have no excuse and should therefore lose their right to vote if they canât be bothered to get down to the polling station every couple of years.
September 9, 2021
And what would be your definition of “genuine reasons”?
September 9, 2021
jools gave examples Peter.
September 10, 2021
Jools simply stated “genuine reasons”. I think it a fair question to ask what that actually means as it is very much open to individual interpretation.
September 10, 2021
But he gave genuine reasons such as the elderly and the infirm.
He was saying that the automatic right to have a postal vote should be greatly reduced to those who have genuine reasons.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
September 9, 2021
JB, Your argument is only half reasonable as not everybody is a retiree. It could be even more so (reasonable) if elections were not held on a Thursday (working day).
See brilliantmaps.com âWhat day of the week elections are normally held: Election days by countryâ. So why holding all UK elections on Thursdays? It has been like this since 1931, and in the good olden days reasons about pub-goers or church-goers had been made. So is there nothing more to it than tradition?
As any of our ÂŁ82k MPs ever thought about the possibility of moving election day to a day in the week-end to possibly increase the number of in-site voters/decrease the number of postal voters?
September 9, 2021
Have you not heard of proxy voting?
September 10, 2021
P2, Indeed I have, but not everybody has the time nor good friends around to ask them for such a thing.
September 10, 2021
Really?
People with absolutely no friends, no neighbours, no family ?
Not even a social worker?
Yet who still have no time to find anyone.
I hope you aren’t talking from experience hef.
September 9, 2021
The main manipulation and distortion at elections is by the Foreign Powers that by their own deeds this Government ensure happens.
The proposed changes to the GDPR increases this Foreign manipulation. It starts with the UK Government sanctioning the removal of personal data from the UK to other domains. Domains they cant possibly know about, countries whos Political Power is outside UK jurisdiction. Data is collected inside the UK but collated sold and reused outside of it. The UK Government is ensuring this type of political manipulation by others is maintained.
This a bigger and more manipulated side of elections than the very minor problems of someone getting hold of an individuals voter card/number.
I should say GDPR are has from the outset been a corrupting safety blanket that does not and cannot do what the politicians imply.
The Government should in the first instance have a conversation with probably Sir Tim Berners-Lee. He I am sure has a better idea than they do. It wont happen as the Government and their Agents are lazy and are concerned more with Control out of their own fear of being found out.
September 9, 2021
Nota# Wrong from start to finish. You are more likely to have your personal data sold to the best offering company without than with GDPR. The problem mainly relies in its implementation with so many companies launching numerous add-on screens asking you for this, that and the other.
I am in France right now, and it appears that some French companies have reduced their GDPR questions to âdo you want personalised ads or no: Y/Nâ and thatâs it.
Very different from the UK where one has to answer about âlegitimate purposesâ and the likes and often has to switch on/off five to twelve different Y/N windows.
September 9, 2021
No problem with proving identity for voting, but can we have a range of means for identification, driving licence, bus pass, utilities bill, etc.
We do not need to go to the expense of yet another card.
Postal voting has got out of control because once you request it for a genuine reason (Holidays, hospitalisation,) etc you seem to have it for life, which is a nonsense.
A new application for a postal vote should be required for every election, that would certainly cut it back a bit.
September 9, 2021
You will never stop fraud with a postal vote system. I have never understood why I need to show photographic ID to pick up a parcel at the Post Office but not to vote for a government. It is ludicrous. I have no objections to an ID card. The sooner the better.
When a person is caught committing a driving offence requiring 3 points and they do not hold a driving licence, or indeed they hold a foreign licence which is often the case. DVLA will create a Non Drivers Licence so the points can be recorded.
Perhaps everyone should have a Non Drivers Licence, as ID which would be upgraded when passing the driving test, then we don’t have to start from scratch as the system already exists.
Before I get shot down it is just an idea. The status quo is not working.
September 9, 2021
Gosh! Do the proposed electoral reforms mean that Mr Putin can no longer vote in British elections?
September 9, 2021
Yes,
A lot more needs to be done to stop the fraud around postal vote. They need to be reviewed upon receipt, and as many checked as possible for anything illegal.
September 9, 2021
I don’t really have a problem with proving my identity. I do have a problem with postal votes and any form of electronic voting or vote counting. Postal votes are wide open to fraud, and electronic voting and counting are not secure . As politicians you rely on us believing in the integrity of elections, if you allow any doubt to creep in then your authority disappears. You politicians should be paranoid at that happening but far from it you have been playing fast and loose with the integrity of pour elections. If there wasn’t the Trump derangement syndrome so prevalent in our chattering classes then they would be horrified at what has taken place in the US presidential elections , lessons quickly learn and all postal voting and electronic voting dropped as fast as they could.
September 9, 2021
I have been horrified twice recently at US presidential elections. Firstly in 2000 when the Democrat Al Gore narrowly won the popular vote, but when the Republican majority on the Surpreme Court ruled that votes couldnât be counted in Miami – handing the election to the Republican George W Bush.
And, secondly, in 2016 when Hillary Clinton won 3m more votes than Donald Trump and was denied the presidency – in an election when Russian agents had actively tried, and succeeded, in determining the result.
The reality is that there are simply more Democrats in America than there are Republicans. This is why the Republicans have only won the most popular votes in a presidential election once since the end of the 1980s. Unable to win fairly at the ballot box Republicans are now involved in widespread voter suppression. If they canât get enough people to vote for them – and they canât- Republicans, and Tories – instead try to reduce the number of people who can vote for other people. This is what voter ID and the attack on postal voting is about. They canât win fairly so they want to cheat.
September 9, 2021
It is a collegiate system Andy.
Do you not understand?
September 10, 2021
Given that you appear to understand everything, do you know anything about American history, P2?
history.com, 14/12/2020 âWhy was the Electoral College created?â. I want to poke your wisdom: how sure are you that a system painfully designed in 1787 is still the perfect one 234 years later?
September 10, 2021
Oh I love a quiz heffy.
But first, do you actually agree with andy and his analysis on the USA Presidential elections or are you just trolling me as usual?
September 10, 2021
‘Horrified’ Andy? You usually tell us how you laugh at disasters.
September 9, 2021
Iain Moore :
Agreed
September 9, 2021
I would end postal voting except for medical reasons or for those out of the country on Election Day. Frankly, everyone should be prepared to make the effort to vote in person and the polling station is the place least likely to facilitate the influence of others.
September 9, 2021
Yes electorate ID is crucial to the integrity of the voting process and many other aspects of life in the UK. When you consider how much information on individuals is held by government and private organisations, much of it to enhance the profits of said organisations, it is nonesense to shy away from an ID that upholds the law.
It would provide a means of identifying the bloated illegal immigrant population we carry, totally unnecessarily. You probably won’t like this, but factually it is true that voter integrity only became questionable after Blair opened UK doors to vast numbers of economic migrants from places where electoral integrity does not exist.
September 9, 2021
agricola :
Agreed.
September 9, 2021
”honour its Manifesto promise”
I can’t believe you used that term in your first sentence
September 9, 2021
@glen cullen +1
September 9, 2021
Funnier than Andy’s daily laugh.
September 10, 2021
gc, yes, it is proof that Sir John was full of good humour this morning.
September 9, 2021
I support the use of a photo ID for voting and believe postal voting should be stopped.
September 9, 2021
Good morning.
Not difficult at all, Sir John. Just limit it to those who are either disabled and a member of the armed services serving abroad. One could extend it to those who have booked, or are working abroad but this has to be strictly controlled.
September 9, 2021
For those living abroad who are entitled to vote in UK national elections by post the vetting is quite comprehensive and information given is verifiable. In practical terms it is much better to arrange a Proxy Vote. This is because the time lapse between the announcing of candidates, printing, mailing the voter, and getting an answer/vote from the voter is too tight. This comes from personal experience.
September 9, 2021
Thanks :o)
September 9, 2021
There are other changes I would like to see:
1) Student votes allocated to their hometown and not the place where their university is. It is unfair to skew the voting for the permanent residents of university towns/cities who have to live under the elected official long past the time the student has left the area.
2) Only allow postal votes in extreme circumstances where it is difficult to attend the polling station.
3) For people living permanently abroad only allow a vote if they are a UK taxpayer.
4) Ensure the suspect counting machines used in the US are never allowed here.
5) Remove the ability to see who has and hasnât voted. I was appalled to be able to see the electoral listing on the table in front of the official and could easily identify who had and hadnât voted. For the unscrupulous, without voter ID, these details could be passed on to allow fraudulent voting to take place.
September 9, 2021
For democracy to work it is necessary for there to be losersâ consent.
This requires losers to know that they have lost a fair contest and hence why it is absolutely imperative that not only electoral fraud should not exist but that it should be shown to not exist.
That is why any possible fraudulent votes, even those which may be thought to be infrequent, must be eliminated.
September 9, 2021
Does it really matter who wins a election.
September 9, 2021
Thatâs not even sarcasms but a valid point
September 10, 2021
Paul, gc, +1
I happened to live in France when there was a âUnion de la Gaucheâ government with socialist and (quick, garlic) communist ministers under Mitterrand. And the impact after seven years (the length of a French presidency in those days), well not much, neither awfully bad nor brilliantly good. There were ups and downs but not necessarily much worse than the first three years of the brilliant wonderful Mrs T.
At least the French election system allows this type of things to happen, so people can see the impact or not of such a âdrasticâ change. Now France thanks to its voting system voted in a brand new cock-a-doodle-doo president, Macron, where as in the UK, âŠ
Is there such a big difference between the mixed hotchpotch of the CUP and the similar one calling itself Labour?
September 9, 2021
The Taliban are condemned for their lack of womenâs rights but in the UK it continues to be perfectly feasible, and indeed very common, for husbands to vote on womenâs behalf through postal voting.
September 9, 2021
I agree measures need to be taken to prevent voter fraud, especially with in person voting. Postal ballot voting is now far less open to fraud (outside individual families but though not ideal that is less serious as family members will generally influence each other anyhow) due to the relatively recent requirements to provide both a date of birth and a signature which are both checked before being allowed as a vote.
The truth appears to be that in over 80% of the country (including where I live) there is negligible voter fraud but elsewhere where it does exist it does need to be eliminated, albeit with measures that apply to the whole country (as one cannot reasonably have one law for some parts of the country and another voting law for other parts- so we will just have to put up with extra precautions in those areas which don’t suffer from voter fraud.)
September 9, 2021
Geoffrey Berg :
ââŠ..Postal ballot voting is now far less open to fraud (outside individual families but though not ideal that is less serious as family members will generally influence each other anyhow)âŠ.â
Family members euphemistically âinfluencingâ other family members is a serious matter and our country should be showing the world that we are supporting the right of all women to vote for whom they wish by not allowing the corrupt and third world practice of âfamily (postal) votesâ.
September 9, 2021
Itâs basically a form of voter suppression. Why would this Brexitist government want to suppress the vote?
Because people see the huge economic decline, the collapse in trade, the masses of bureaucracy, the loss of freedoms, the effluent filled rivers, the burning pig carcasses, the shortages and consequent price rises, and returned roaming charges Brexit has brought and nobody with a brain cell would vote for the Brexitists again.
I say we remove them anyway.
September 9, 2021
You need lessons at the BBQ.
September 9, 2021
Are you Martin in Cardiff’s Bruv? Or perhaps a 2nd account?
September 9, 2021
Oh Dear.
September 9, 2021
Yet polls show little change since the referendum.
September 10, 2021
Indeed, people are a bit slow to realise ⊠or another possibility could not care less, contrary to the political aficionados of this blog.
September 10, 2021
You are very keen to follow my every word hef.
I take it as a compliment.
September 9, 2021
Postal ballots remain the weak spot. We should ban them and have proxy votes instead. People should register with the constituency party of the party they wish to vote for, and their proxy should be allocated by that party to activists who can be entrusted to vote honourably.
ID to vote is critical and must be introduced ASAP. Voter counting machines must be banned completely. Our own Scrutinized Count is the best method by far.
September 9, 2021
While the Government are active in this field, when might we expect to see the constituency boundary changes recommended by the Electoral Commission some years ago now implemented?
September 9, 2021
The tighter the better! You should see the amount of voter fraud in the United States! It is taking a Herculean effort by all concerned to get the ‘authorities’ to step out of the way and allow us to present the evidence we have uncovered already. And there’s much more to follow.
Voter fraud is so very dangerous as it undermines the people’s faith in the Democratic process. Furthermore, it allows some very corrupt people to usurp power, whose policies are so bad, they could not expect them to be accepted via a legitimate and fair election. I’m hoping it won’t be long before we see the back of the crooks altogether!
September 9, 2021
Sir John,
My ‘Conspiracy Theory’ Tinfoil Hat (which seems to have turned into a Crown of Knowledge these past 15 months) makes me wonder whether the right to vote will not also be linked to the Vaccine Passport (a device which your colleague Nadhim Zahawi [amongst other too numerous to name here] had previously said was not even being considered, let alone be rolled-out in the UK).
I would presume that you would vigorously oppose – and lobby your colleagues in Parliament to vigorously oppose – any such move in that direction?
September 9, 2021
First of all we need to change from our first past the post to proportional representation
Secondly we should go to digital for internet voting as an option – for instance.. If can do my banking and everything else online with the correct passwords and safety in place then why not?
Third – we need to abolish the HoL and put in place an elected senate – max 200 members
September 9, 2021
I am puzzled as to why the UK doesn’t allow voting through the Internet as it seems to me that we’d get far more people voting.
Also… one factor I have never seen discussed is where let’s say I want to vote Conservative but I don’t like the conservative candidate put up for my constituency. So it’s either I just bite the bullet and vote for him/her or I choose to not vote at all.
It just seems to me that there should be a way to register the fact you don’t like a particular candidate but do support the party.
September 9, 2021
Alastair McIntyre : “I am puzzled as to why the UK doesnât allow voting through the Internet as it seems to me that weâd get far more people voting.”
I’m sure you’re right that we would get far more people voting, or rather an increase in votes cast, from all over the World.
September 10, 2021
+1 OR.
Or should that be +100,000,000 ;o)
People should get orf their @rses and go to a polling station.
For those that can’t and DO need a postal vote, then there should be stricter protocols on the numbers of postal voting forms sent out….. and by recorded delivery for a signature on receipt?
September 10, 2021
OR, come on, there is usually a trillion dollars swishing around the various stock exchanges every day these are open for business. And that is said to be very secure.
If the Government wanted to set up a secure voting system with two-way authentification (as now often activated when dealing e.g. with bank transfers from standard run-of-the-mill individual bank accounts) it could be done.
September 10, 2021
AMcI, Or the opposite, I might like the candidate but would not want to support the party.
September 9, 2021
Our current voting procedures have worked well for over 100 years, and the number of alleged electoral fraud cases are in the low hundreds and the number of convictions even lower. This proposal is a continuation of the increasing state control and erosion of our individual freedoms perpetuated by this government.
I suspect how it would work in practice, with officials at every polling station given the task of deciding whether every voter bore a true likeness to his/her photo, and whether a document with a small discrepancy on it was acceptable, has not even been considered.