Better ventilation

I am pleased to report some progress with the idea that more can be done to extract air and to use UV filters to clean air to reduce the risk of infection transmission. The following has appeared in the latest government Covid 19 Plan:

“Ventilation

Due to the importance of fresh air in limiting the spread of COVID-19, the Government will set out in guidance the practical steps everyone can take to maximise fresh air in order to reduce the risk of airborne transmission, taking into account the colder months when more activities take place indoors.

The Government will support improved ventilation in key settings by:

  • a. Providing further advice and support to businesses to help them check their ventilation levels and introduce Carbon Dioxide (CO2) monitoring where appropriate.
  • b. Conducting further scientific research to assess ventilation levels in a range of business settings.
  • c. Investing £25 million in c.300,000 CO2 monitors for schools.
  • d. Improving the management of ventilation across the public sector estate alongside bespoke guidance to maximise the effectiveness of existing mechanical and natural ventilation. This has included deploying CO2 monitors in courts as well as targeted rollouts and trials of these monitors in other settings.
  • e. Continuing to support and promote pilots of how to limit transmission through ventilation or air purification, such as the trials of high-efficiency particulate absorbing filters and ultraviolet-C air cleaners in 30 Bradford schools, as well as working with stakeholders such as the Rail Delivery Group and Rail Safety and Standards Board to trial the use of upgraded air filtration devices on passenger rail stock.”

 

53 Comments

  1. X-Tory
    September 15, 2021

    CO2 monitors are a complete and total waste of time and money. Utterly pointless.

    UV air purifiers are what is required, in hospitals (primarily) and also in schools, pubs, restaurants, etc. But what do we get? This: ” Continuing to support and promote pilots of how to limit transmission through ventilation or air purification, such as the trials of high-efficiency particulate absorbing filters and ultraviolet-C air cleaners”. We’ve had the pilots – now it’s time for mass implementation!

    The slowness and incompetence and indecision of this government make me vomit. I want ACTION NOW – not just in this area but in all other areas too. Immediate action is required, not more pilots, and studies, and discussions, and consultations, and negotiations, blah, blah, blah. In wartime governments take immediate decisions. There is so much wrong with this country, so many changes that need to be made, that the government should be on a constant war-footing, taking immediate, urgent decisions. There is no time to waste!

    Reply
    1. Nig l
      September 16, 2021

      Yes this is the usual kick it into the long grass with ‘pilots’ at minimum/low cost, whilst at the start of the pandemic and no pun intended, airlines like Easy Jet installed clean air systems to keep people safe.

      Why are the railways now only looking at trials when science is established, even schools knew because they kept the windows open.

      Umpteen months on all we get from this pathetic government is CO2 monitors, advice etc.

      Totally useless and in the meantime more people get it, maybe die, lockdowns threatened, the economy suffers.

      I know how hard you have been pushing this Sir JR but if you view this as a success, there truly is no hope.

      Reply
  2. Ian Wragg
    September 15, 2021

    So we are to build houses insulated to within an inch of their lives and leave the windows op in winter.
    Heat pumps won’t work with the windows closed do we are supposed to freeze to death.
    Once again wind supplying 4% of our power whilst the Irish interconnected is off line, the French at reduced capacity and we are running coal, open circuit gas turbines and STOR diesels on a mild autumn day.
    Rl on winter.

    Reply
    1. Zorro
      September 15, 2021

      Best that you freeze to death rather than get COVID 19, it’s the New Normal 😉

      Zorro

      Reply
    2. Lifelogic
      September 16, 2021

      Government insanity yet again.

      Reply
  3. Ian Wragg
    September 15, 2021

    So we are to build houses insulated to within an inch of their lives and leave the windows open
    in winter.
    Heat pumps won’t work with the windows closed do we are supposed to freeze to death.
    Once again wind supplying 4% of our power whilst the Irish interconnected is off line, the French at reduced capacity and we are running coal, open circuit gas turbines and STOR diesels on a mild autumn day.Roll on winter.

    Reply
    1. Iain Moore
      September 15, 2021

      I gather the French interconnector fire hasn’t been put out, they were initially talking about it coming back on line in October , but now think it won’t be back online until March. Newspapers are beginning to catch up and the likes of the Telegraph are talking of power cuts.

      There they will be telling us to reduce our CO2 output at COP26 while we will be sitting in blackouts . Great! How to antagonise a population in one easy move.

      Reply
  4. Nota#
    September 15, 2021

    Sir John
    Ventilation is a massive overlooked subject. Most of the so-called trials and research is already proven

    UV light kills covid on exposure, else where in the world UV light inside ventilation trunking is used specifically for that purpose. Think not just offices but public transport.

    The ventilation mandated in UK Homes is mickey mouse at best. The cheap very cheap(when I say cheap I am talking £1.50p its a joke) options currently used are to reduce condensation nothing else. They add to noise and heat loss exponentially. It is simple and cost effective to use heat exchangers – that then reduces condensation and heating bills.

    Many more examples of waste by not listening

    As proven technology that is straight forward to implement, it doesn’t need the dumping of more taxpayer money with friends at the cost of over burden citizens – Government needs to get a grip on the economy.

    Reply
  5. MiC
    September 15, 2021

    You’re not going to get many people back into commercial shared indoor spaces until you do something about the disgusting lack of basic hygiene and manners amongst so many of the public, John.

    You can bang on about better ventilation until you’re blue in the face, but when coughers and sneezers are spraying everyone within range with complete abandon – as they are almost everywhere – that won’t change a thing.

    Reply
    1. Zorro
      September 15, 2021

      Yes, that’s right MiC, absolutely everybody everywhere, it can’t be denied. Pull your mask over the nose and suppress your snot, it’s the New Normal.

      Zorro

      Reply
      1. Peter2
        September 15, 2021

        Indeed Zorro every where I go everyone is doing it.
        Coughing and sneezing over everyone literally.
        Its not safe to go out.
        And avoid Cardiff.

        Reply
        1. MiC
          September 16, 2021

          It only takes one-in-fifty in a room with fifty people in it to spoil it for the other forty-nine.

          You clearly don’t get out much.

          I’ve been to two restaurants in the last five days. Both had more than one person with a hacking cough who did not cover their faces when so doing, and the same in nearly all the half-dozen or so pubs that I’ve visited over the last couple of weeks.

          Reply
          1. Peter2
            September 16, 2021

            Stop in MiC
            It is the only way to keep safe.

          2. MiC
            September 16, 2021

            Many, many people are doing exactly that.

            John’s ventilators and air cleaners won’t change their minds either.

            The uncivil are destroying the hospitality sector.

          3. Peter2
            September 16, 2021

            It is OK where I live
            Maybe it’s just a Cardiff phenomenon.

    2. Everhopeful
      September 15, 2021

      From yesterday.

      Oh yes!
      Such a good point.
      Just open everything up and get the tills ringing!
      However, the plan must be to impoverish us. Tax, tax, tax.
      Then roll out the universal income thing having taken control of all small/medium businesses.

      I WAS BEING PERFECTLY SERIOUS. I ADMIRED AND AGREED WITH WHAT YOU SAID. I WON’T BOTHER ANOTHER TIME.

      Reply
      1. MiC
        September 16, 2021

        I’m sorry – you weren’t at all clear, and seemed to be caricaturing my comment.

        Reply
  6. X-Tory
    September 15, 2021

    Off topic, but astonishing news: The Scottish Government-owned Ferguson Marine shipyard is so badly run and so incompetent that it has been ruled out of an order to build two new ferries for the Scottish Government itself. Instead, the four shipyards invited to submit detailed tenders are based in Poland, Romania and Turkey. In other words, the Scottish government does not trust itself to build its own ships. And not surprisingly, either. The Scottish Government is still waiting for the last two ships it ordered from Ferguson to be delivered. So far they are more than four years late, and will cost the taxpayer more than double the original contract price. So the Scottish taxpayer is out of pocket, Scottish money is going overseas and so are the related jobs.

    What I want to know is this: Why did the cretinous Boris Johnson not refer to this in today’s PMQs? Why is this not being used as a massive stick with which to beat Nicola Sturgeon over the head with? Why is this useless, treacherous government doing nothing to attack the appalling Holyrood regime?

    Reply
    1. MiC
      September 16, 2021

      It’s not a regime, it’s democratically-elected, and by a far more representative system than the UK Parliament is.

      You have no evidence to support your claim against the shipyard either. Different facilities have varying scope and pedigree, for instance.

      Yes, by all means hasten the break-up of the UK.

      The European Union’s looking pretty secure on the other hand.

      Reply Is that the same EU that lost its second largest member state and a main contributor in January?

      Reply
      1. MiC
        September 16, 2021

        Arguably it is quite a different one now, John, since you mention it.

        Reply
  7. No Longer Anonymous
    September 15, 2021

    Doubtless to be made from Chinese parts.

    Meanwhile… the police, under Dick of Dock Green ( recently awarded the Tory Common Purpose Cross with Tea Leaves, Honey Nut Clusters and bar) has instructed her officers to go gently on Green demonstrators and officers were seen to say “If you have any questions, if you are uncomfortable then let us know. We will deal with you … in a good way” whilst not giving a shit about kids with toothache, people trying to get to hospital and people worried about their non-State employment who were trapped in the obstructed traffic behind them – in fact, only getting tough with those non-demonstrators who lost their tempers.

    Up to four hours to decide what to do with these demonstrators.

    The police officers on scene ought to have been arrested themselves for aiding and abetting the obstruction of a highway.

    But all to the good.

    The public are seeing the Tories in their true light.

    Reply
    1. No Longer Anonymous
      September 15, 2021

      Face it. The ventilation AND the disgraceful vaccination of kids (6 times more likely to hurt them than Covid) is to appease the teaching unions who have basically called a general strike and caused secondary picketing (workers trapped at home.)

      The worst government in our history.

      PS, the Insulation demonstrators are State actors – hence the kid gloves.

      Reply
      1. Zorro
        September 15, 2021

        It will help them get their anti-demonstration bill through with some bogus insulation protestors – but don’t worry, it’s the New Normal!

        Zorro

        Reply
  8. acorn
    September 15, 2021

    Can this power hungry ventilation and air filtering equipment be fitted with a Downing Street bullshit filter?

    Also, it must be time to re-nationalise the electric power industry, bring back the CEGB I say. Like we have just done to the Rail Network; and, should do to the Water/ Sewage Industry as well. There is no future for the laisse-faire neoliberal free market ideology. Sadly, it has taken a global pandemic to prove that ideology was a very bad mistake, that only benefitted those who live in the big houses at the top end of town.

    Can I suggest a nation wide government subsidy for the purchase of portable electric generators. Preferably those that can run on mains natural gas and supply sufficient electric to power for the controls and pumps of your mains natural gas central heating and cooking appliances; 1600 to 2000 KVA should be more than adequate. Do not try to synchronise your generator to the national grid, always keep the two totally separate by the mains switch on your consumer unit.

    PS. I am assuming that when the s**t hits the fan, the natural gas grid would still be operating at some level and the gas pipeline compressor stations will still be working.

    Reply
    1. MiC
      September 16, 2021

      Well said, Acorn.

      The profit motive must be excluded from all important or potentially hazardous undertakings where wrongdoing and corner-cutting can be concealed, even if only temporarily.

      Reply
      1. Peter2
        September 16, 2021

        State enterprises have had poor records of safety and quality too MiC

        Reply
        1. MiC
          September 16, 2021

          OK, compare Dwr Cymru with Southern Water then Peter.

          Reply
          1. Peter2
            September 16, 2021

            Look back at British Leyland or British Steel

          2. Micky Taking
            September 17, 2021

            as always you dig up one exception to try to present a reasonable argument. Failed!

          3. MiC
            September 17, 2021

            Southern Water are just one amongst many companies discharging egregious amounts of raw sewage.

          4. Peter2
            September 18, 2021

            As you keep saying MiC
            Millions of successful decent businesses, run well, employing millions of people in Europe, generating billions in taxes yet you want to tear it all down and replace it with one employer, the State.

  9. Everhopeful
    September 15, 2021

    The edition of Old Bailey rebuilt post Great Fire 1673 had no front wall on the ground floor in order to combat gaol fever ( typhus). Later it was covered in to prevent chills and regain privacy.
    Nosegays of aromatic herbs were placed on the judge’s bench and strewing herbs covered the floor.
    My favourite is the wind powered ventilation system built over Newgate. Wind powered!! How Johnson would love one on top of the House of Commons.
    All ideas that could be adopted to combat our new plague perhaps?

    Reply
  10. Jim Whitehead
    September 15, 2021

    Do forgive me for my profound scepticism. For an uncertainty of any discernible measurable improvement I fully expect to be inundated with an avalanche of rules and regulations, audits, experts, and expenses. As usual, the small business will be hit hardest, the big boys absorbing the costs of the impositions and imposts.
    The idea that any believable improvement to the Covid stats will emerge is surely fanciful at best, and I rather expect that the army of climate change fanatics will commandeer the debate and the airwaves to further choke off open debate and free choice.
    I fully agree with the value of fresh air and open spaces but I despair at the thought of more top down nannying.

    Reply
    1. Zorro
      September 15, 2021

      Remember small businesses are so pre-COVID, this is the New Normal. A week’s notice to allegedly get a system in place to check the vaccine passports when the Government feels like it, that’s so New Normal.

      Zorro

      Reply
  11. Lester_Cynic
    September 15, 2021

    It’s a useless suggestion and is another crackpot idea connected with the Covid-19 nonsense

    And I BET that doesn’t appear!

    Reply
  12. Jim Whitehead
    September 15, 2021

    L_C, +1

    Reply
  13. Stred
    September 15, 2021

    Try 4 air changes/hr when the air temperature is 5deg C. You wil need a heat exchanger and even then it will only half work. That’s why viruses infect more in winter when we’re trying to keep warm.

    Reply
    1. Micky Taking
      September 17, 2021

      ahem….hospital wards always too hot! Windows always closed.

      Reply
  14. DOM
    September 15, 2021

    Proper ventilation is essential to extract the Socialist stench coming from No.10 and the putridity steaming from the rotting corpse that is British liberal democracy.

    Reply
    1. Jim Whitehead
      September 15, 2021

      DOM, +1,
      It’s hard to decide whether to hold the nose or hands over ears when Johnson makes any speech these days. Like with T. May, I cannot stand the sound of the voice let alone the insult to the senses of the words.

      Reply
    2. MiC
      September 16, 2021

      The problem with British democracy – as with it anywhere – is the moral degeneracy of a critical mass amongst the electorate who then vote for vicious motives, not to better the lot of the country and its people.

      The game then descends into the footballification, which is endemic now amongst the right wing media, to pander to these very types.

      So, for what exactly do you vote then, Dom?

      Reply
      1. Peter2
        September 16, 2021

        Until the left stop denigrating all those who currently do not vote for left of centre parties they will find it very difficult to get elected.

        Implying they are all moral degenerates with vicious motives, doesn’t exactly encourage people to move their vote.

        Reply
  15. glen cullen
    September 15, 2021

    Nanny state at it again…..lets go the whole hog and get school children to wear hi-vis and hard hats and gloves

    ……have I missed something, are school children dying in the hundreds/thousands are they even ill with the infection ?

    Reply
    1. MiC
      September 16, 2021

      You are indeed missing something.

      That is, a vulnerable person who does die must still catch the virus from someone.

      This aims to make schoolchildren less likely to be that someone.

      Reply
      1. No Longer Anonymous
        September 16, 2021

        The vaccine is shown to be 6 times more dangerous to children than Covid. But you carry on your moral high ground, MiC.

        (Relax. Bojo is giving you more of what you want than what I want.)

        Reply
        1. Micky Taking
          September 17, 2021

          The ‘danger’ you suggest is many, many times more without the jab!

          Reply
  16. alan jutson
    September 15, 2021

    Why not really go back to basics, turn down the heating, leave the windows open, and wear a couple of jumpers and a wooly hat when indoors.

    We did not have Covid or Flu back in the 1950’s, but then we had coal fires to sit in front of !
    Thus my very simple scientific study finds that Burning Coal is the solution.
    Oh wait a minute, houses now not built with open fireplaces, no coal miners, no coal mines, too much pollution!
    But
    Ok to Import and Burn trees in Power Stations, but only if you call it Biomass fuel, not wood !.

    What a mess we have got ourselves in.

    Reply
    1. MiC
      September 16, 2021

      You certainly have.

      Reply
      1. Micky Taking
        September 17, 2021

        You being who?

        Reply
    2. glen cullen
      September 16, 2021

      its madness

      Reply
  17. The other Christine
    September 16, 2021

    Interesting that this is being rolled out in Bradford schools. Now I wonder why that is (ahem)?

    Reply
  18. L Jones
    September 16, 2021

    Perhaps there should be discussion, then, about encouraging people to get as much fresh air as possible for the good of their immune systems – while at the same time telling them they should wear a bit of suffocating, CO2 and bacteria-trapping Chinese paper or dirty rag over their faces, whenever possible. How ridiculous.

    Reply
  19. Micky Taking
    September 17, 2021

    and today’s article poster, winning by a country mile is …….MiC.

    Reply

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