Buying petrol and diesel

As someone who has kept away from filling stations for the last week as I still have some diesel in  my tank it is worrying to see such long queues of people wanting to fill their tanks earlier than usual and some also wanting to fill extra cans for storage.

Ministers have assured us there is no shortage of fuel in the country, to be met with the reply that nonetheless there are filling station closures and queues. These have been brought on by a large surge in demand which should  abate when more people have full tanks and cans and as concern reduces.

Messages by some in the industry started the extra demand by drawing attention to what were  limited and local delivery problems. Let us hope the industry can recharge the forecourt tanks and resume supply for more usual levels of demand. Those of us who held back would like to be able to replenish emptier car tanks at our regular times.

232 Comments

  1. Mike Wilson
    September 26, 2021

    A headline in The Guardian was ‘Supply Chain Chaos’. Utterly irresponsible. You can’t blame people for reacting to such hysterical headlines.

    1. Cheshire Girl
      September 26, 2021

      Indeed. This has been stoked up by hysterical Media headlines, for days. Now they say that people are panicking – just what the Media wanted to happen.

      Such hypocrites!

    2. John Hatfield
      September 26, 2021

      And the ‘panic buying’ headlines which simply encourage panic buying which is not ‘panic’ buying at all but sensible just-in-case buying.

    3. rose
      September 26, 2021

      The headlines are not hysterical: they are methodically, deliberately manipulative. As was BP’s announcement in the first place. The remainiacs, including those in the Treasury, have not given up and will use any opportunity to bring down the Government

      1. Nota#
        September 26, 2021

        @rose +1 got in one. BP leaked a confidential meeting to manipulate the situation and try to leverage Government. A couple of days ago the reality came out, out of 113 stations BP had problems at 10.

      2. jerry
        September 26, 2021

        @rose; Oh dear, didn’t take long for the conspiracy theories to start, heck even the Brexit supporting MSM must have turned their coats!

    4. MiC
      September 26, 2021

      No, the headline is quite correct.

      The Minister’s statement is also correct, but addresses an implied wrong question.

      The question that the motorist rightly asks is not “Is the country short of fuel?” but “Will I be able to fill my vehicle?”.

      The answer to that question is “Probably not, because the country is short of drivers to get that fuel from the plentiful stocks at the depots to a filling station near you”.

      That is, there is “supply chain chaos”, thanks to both chronic and acute Torysism.

      1. No Longer Anonymous
        September 26, 2021

        Yup. Can’t argue with that.

        Covid lockdown chaos had far further implications than we could ever imagine. No driver training for 18 months.

        Lockdown is more dangerous than Covid but they didn’t tell you that.

      2. Mike Wilson
        September 26, 2021

        The answer to that question is “Probably not, because the country is short of drivers to get that fuel from the plentiful stocks at the depots to a filling station near you”.

        And by the end of this week, after the panic buying caused by hysterical media headlines, the petrol stations will have been refilled and most people will have full tanks and not need any more for a while.

        At this point, an app telling you who has petrol, who has run out and when the next delivery is would be useful to take the panic out of the situation.

      3. jon livesey
        September 26, 2021

        There is a bigger shortage of drivers in Poland than in the UK. Long distance drivers prefer to get local delivery jobs where they can get home every night.

        Stopping employers from exploiting cheap EU labour is *deliberate* Mic. It’s what controlling legal immigration is partly about. But there are driver shortages all across Europe. It’s not a UK-specific phenomenon.

        1. MiC
          September 27, 2021

          Maybe, but that is a chronic position there to which they have adjusted, unlike the acute one here which has the country all over the place.

          Now, what is the difference between the two countries? (Hint: Northern Ireland does not have these problems to anything like this extent either)

      4. a-tracy
        September 26, 2021

        Martin, are you sure that “the country is short of drivers to get that fuel” as a fact? I have seen tanker drivers urging people not to panic buy because there are waiting lists to become fuel tanker drivers and they sufficient drivers. I truly hope someone does a proper investigation into this matter.

      5. Lukas
        September 26, 2021

        Yes MIC – because the Tory ERG types together with the rag press have chased the foreign labour away – without thinking about the consequences

      6. Peter2
        September 26, 2021

        Wow you didn’t blame brexit MiC
        I’m shocked
        I really am.

        1. hefner
          September 27, 2021

          P2, what a wonderful piece of decent debate. Thanks.

          1. Peter2
            September 28, 2021

            Thanks hef
            Like you I was shocked that MiC didn’t claim Brexit was to blame.

    5. hefner
      September 26, 2021

      Yesterday’s (25/09) headlines:
      Daily Mail: Huge jams at forecourts
      Daily Star: Grumpy pumpy
      The Times: Chaotic scenes
      Daily Telegraph: 5000 visas to ease threat of fuel and food shortages

      A bit selective, aren’t you?

      1. Peter2
        September 26, 2021

        The Mail’s new efitor is pro EU and wanted the UK to say in the EU
        Times is pro EU and ….ditto
        Daily Star…who reads thst comic?

        1. hefner
          September 27, 2021

          P2, please give details of how exactly the EU is responsible for the present UK petrol/gas/HGV situation. I love hearing from experts.

          I seem to remember that not so long ago you were saying ‘we’ve left, get over it’. Have you changed your tune? Are we a weather vane, are we not?

          1. Peter2
            September 27, 2021

            Another quiz hefffy?
            I didn’t say the EU was to blame.
            Like MiC you are just making things up.

    6. jerry
      September 26, 2021

      @Mike Wilson; Trouble is it is not just petrol, people walk into supermarkets and see empty shelves, they visit the on-line traders and often see there is zero stock, or huge price hikes on re-stock. It matters not what the reasons are -Brexit, Covid, the Evergreen container ship incident, or the fact that shipping costs have gone well north of late (meaning some importers are waiting in the hope costs come back down); human nature is to panic, more so when reason for concerns are several, especially when something is considered essential.

      1. a-tracy
        September 27, 2021

        jerry, which online traders have zero stock? I haven’t seen any shortages in the Supermarkets I use, there is a massive new German supermarket in my town without shortages, perhaps you should shop around.

        If you tell someone tins of tomatoes are in short supply they’ll suddenly put an extra two tins in their shopping basket they don’t need and may not use for a few months, sadly it is human nature to squirrel away when people are told things are running out. Mass panic over ventilators that it turned out weren’t needed. We can now all see how reliable our news is.

        1. jerry
          September 27, 2021

          @a-tracy; Bully for you!

          “Mass panic over ventilators that it turned out weren’t needed.”

          You mean like the mass govt panic in 1938/9 over gas masks that were never needed, but it would have been a bit late to wait until there was real need, real panic, had there been gas attacks on civilians.

          If you do not want to panic fine, if you would not mind not being able get to work, or perhaps hospital; not be able to physically check on an elderly relative, or perhaps transport a disabled child to and from were ever, because the petrol station(s) in YOUR area ended up being one of the “few” were delivery did not happen. Or last year not minded if you were left gasping for breath, because you caught the “Flu bug other’s were panicking about” (CV19), because there were no spare ventilators – fine, just don’t expect others to live by your ‘principles’.

          By the way, ‘shopping around’ is often a prime cause of sudden shortages, especially where JIT stock control in used, or actual shortages do exist, no shop is going to stock more perishable goods than are usually sold per day or by the date code, this can ever impact problematic bulky non perishables essentials such as toilet paper. The solution is surely not for all the shops to run out, or impose war time style rationing, but to fix the very real problem, in this case a shortage of HGV drivers.

          As for the MSM, I seem to recall the right wing media stoking the anti back in 2000, when the farmers and tanker drivers were protesting about “clueless Blair govt energy policies” etc, the hard right didn’t object to the the creation of mass panic then -a strange world is politics…

          1. a-tracy
            September 28, 2021

            Oh my goodness, calm down Jerry you’ll burst a blood vessel. I have worked in a fast response environment all my working life, sorting out crisis situations. I have many vehicles that require fuel on a daily basis. I have relief workers that I can deploy and plan for all manner of events. I take care of Health & Safety and recruitment. It’s a good thing people like me don’t just get in a right panic about everything. We have calmly and in a planned fashion stayed operational throughout Covid from day 1.

            I objected in 2000 but then I wouldn’t consider myself ‘hard right’.

            Now your turn which “online traders have zero stock’ that you referred to?

  2. Jacob
    September 26, 2021

    ‘Industry’ is not going to recharge the forecourt tanks – only HGV Tank drivers can do

    1. glen cullen
      September 26, 2021

      The story is hitting the USA saying that ‘the green folly in the UK could happen here’…they think we’re mad

      1. Nota#
        September 26, 2021

        @glen Cullen +1 Sad though most of us think they are correct

      2. jon livesey
        September 26, 2021

        This has all already happened in the US. Remember Jimmy Carter and only being able to buy gas on alternate days? Americans are remembering things that really happened to them.

      3. Micky Taking
        September 26, 2021

        THINK OR KNOW?

      4. MiC
        September 27, 2021

        That’s not what the NY Times says.

        They report that the problem is largely caused by European drivers having left.

        1. Peter2
          September 27, 2021

          Well if the New York Times says something then it must be right.
          Hilarious MiC

          1. MiC
            September 28, 2021

            The point is not whether the NYT report is correct or not.

            It is whether the US media are reporting the matter as Glen claims, and it is clear, that in this major instance at least, they are NOT.

        2. Peter2
          September 28, 2021

          It is one reason MiC
          But one of many.
          Therefore the New York Times article is partial and poor.
          Bit like your beloved Guardian

  3. Everhopeful
    September 26, 2021

    Who fomented this for their own ends maybe to get cheap EU Labour?
    Seems a bit Remainerish to me. Linked to a “climate emergency”?
    Surely this is as bad as shouting “Fire” in a cinema.
    ie a crime!

    Doesn’t really matter whether there is or isn’t an actual fuel shortage because people are queuing.
    After all the bloody government has put us through…and now this!

    1. MiC
      September 26, 2021

      Oh, the irony, after screeching “150 million Turks are coming to the UK” during the referendum campaign.

      Aaagh, my aching sides….

      1. No Longer Anonymous
        September 26, 2021

        MiC’s ancestor circa 1833 “Seen the price of cotton since they abolished slavery ???”

        (MiC claims to be Labour and working class – happy to see drivers crapping in bushes, eating cold Ginsters and sleeping in cabs week in week out… thanks to the EU.)

        1. Peter Parsons
          September 27, 2021

          Drivers don’t do that in France, so how can that be “thanks to the EU”?

          How about “thanks to the UK government” which would be a much more accurate statement.

      2. jon livesey
        September 26, 2021

        And after Remain threatening us with “three million lost jobs” and sky-rocking unemployment?

      3. Peter2
        September 26, 2021

        Who said that exactly?
        You making things up again MiC

        1. hefner
          September 27, 2021

          P2, you’re right: Vote Leave and Leave.EU had only said that 76m Turks would be coming to Britain (N.Farage, B.Johnson, 18/04/2016, express.co.uk).

          1. Peter2
            September 27, 2021

            No
            They said Turkey would eventually join the EU and under freedom of movement rules they would be able to leave Turkey and move to the UK and that potentially 76million would be legally able to come here.
            That is correct isn’t it heffy?
            PS
            I remember when we were told only 15,000 Poles would come here and nearly a million came.

          2. hefner
            September 27, 2021

            As for the Poles, P2, hang the responsibility at the proper door. UK, Ireland and Sweden were the only countries in 2004 to open up their countries to citizens from the new entrant countries. Practically all the others used the legal possibility of a delay (transition period) between two and seven years before accepting the free movement of workers.
            This was a decision of the UK Government.

          3. hefner
            September 27, 2021

            ‘Polish emigration to the UK after 2004: Why did so many come?’, M. Okolski & J. Salt, 2014, 1-27, Central and Eastern European Migration Review.

          4. Peter2
            September 27, 2021

            Having lost your original argument you switch to a new substitute one heffy.
            Hilarious.

        2. hefner
          September 27, 2021

          No, P2, it is not correct, British politicians had been saying so, but already by Q1 2016 it was clear that Turkey would not be joining the EU. Out of 35 chapters being discussed as part of the accession process started in 2005, only one had been agreed by the two partners (Turkey/EU) by Spring 2016.
          Furthermore some major differences could not even be addressed (status of Cyprus, opposition of France, Germany, and Greece, internal democracy with Erdogan in March 2016 saying that ‘democracy and freedom are phrases of absolutely no value in Turkey, …).

          You only remember what Vote Leave was saying, without having ever properly researched what the difficulties with the actual accession of Turkey to the EU were.

          1. Peter2
            September 27, 2021

            Still going?
            Hilarious.

          2. hefner
            September 28, 2021

            P2, what is really hilarious is that when you have nothing new to add to and defend your originally wrong comment you just go … ‘hilarious’. Weak my dear, really weak, and nothing like a ‘decent debate’.

          3. Peter2
            September 28, 2021

            Still going?
            Yes you are!

          4. hefner
            September 28, 2021

            Oh yes I am. I thought you wanted ‘Decent debate’. So why are you opting out as soon as you are contradicted? Rather strange.

          5. Peter2
            September 28, 2021

            Turkey will one day soon join the EU.
            And its people will then get freedom of movement as all member nations do.
            Therefore the original statement is correct in my opinion.
            Assuming I am allowed to have a different opinion to you heffy.
            The reaction by remainers like you is predicable.
            You would like it kept very quiet and denied at every airing.

      4. Dennis
        September 27, 2021

        “150 million Turks are coming to the UK” who said that? Wasn’t it ‘150 million Turks will legally be entitled to come’ somewhat different.

        Rather like bus £350m promised, pledged to the NHS when not a penny was so deemed.

        1. a-tracy
          September 28, 2021

          26 Nov 2018 – Spending increases announced for NHS England’s budget mean that £20.5 billion more will be spent on it in 2023/24 than in 2018/19. That’s £394 million more a week by 2023/24.

    2. glen cullen
      September 26, 2021

      …and stop giving air time to Mr Grant (I’ll give you an HS2 review after the election) Shapps MP Secretary of State for Transport

      1. No Longer Anonymous
        September 26, 2021

        On that. I bet HS2 lorry drivers aren’t being re-assigned to emergency goods haulage !

    3. zorro
      September 26, 2021

      I am tempted to call it akin to an act of economic terrorism.

      zorro

    4. Micky Taking
      September 26, 2021

      there will be a fuel shortage due to media pushing it, encouraging panic queuing.

      1. Rhoddas
        September 26, 2021

        Prenez-vous un grip …

      2. a-tracy
        September 26, 2021

        Micky the real question is who fed the media on the weekend of the Labour Party conference with this story. Let’s have the facts please media, just how many fuel tanker drivers are the companies short, how long have their vacancies been advertised? How many EU drivers did they employ to move fuel? How many have left the UK since when? Were they furloughed when the fuel purchases dropped because of working from home, covid lockdowns and less commuting.

        1. Micky Taking
          September 27, 2021

          If you are an HGV driver needing more money, now would be a great time to go off sick.
          I think a payrise is on the horizon.

          1. a-tracy
            September 28, 2021

            Micky, I hope that before the government train up a load of army personnel that the government get the facts first and checks that there are tankers sitting in the yards without drivers, lets be told the actual facts from each fuel tanker company, how many vans are driveable but sat empty in the yard, how many drivers do you need this week? Transport companies usually have 10% more drivers than vans to accommodate holidays and sickness, sometimes you get a peak if too many drivers are unexpectedly sick.

            How many hgv drivers have been on furlough in the last 3 months Sunak has that information at his fingertips.

            When the RHA talk about 100,000 HGV vacancies is this employees or owner drivers using their own trucks?

  4. Lifelogic
    September 26, 2021

    Indeed but there is so little trust in politicians & ministers that as soon as they make any promise such as “the lights will not go out” they buy candles and torches, if they say there is no shortage of petrol they fill up their tanks, if they say we will not run out of gas they buy some fan heaters and if they say we will not increase NI, Income tax and VAT and keep the triple lock – they know what to expect.

    Can we please now ditch the lies and the Boris/Carrie/May net zero lunacy & hypocrisy and get real please. It is Boris who needs to grow up. At least they can blame the closure of the gas storage facility on Ed Davey (PPE Oxon. yet again) as energy Sec. and the idiotic LibDims. Can we have a competent engineer or physicist as energy Sec. please?

    1. Everhopeful
      September 26, 2021

      +100%

    2. No Longer Anonymous
      September 26, 2021

      It’s a good thing, this crisis.

      A glimpse of things to come for all to see.

    3. Mark
      September 26, 2021

      I think Greg Clark was the minister when the Rough storage closure was agreed in 2017. At that stage, it became a producing field again, delivering gas in store and also the cushion gas that helped to maintain higher pressures and faster delivery rates when it was used for storage, but at relatively low production rates. It is still dribbling out small quantities, and expected to close in 2023.

      1. Lifelogic
        September 27, 2021

        Why on earth was the appalling man Greg Clark let back into the Conservative party after his appalling “remoaner” actions that many rightly regard as pure treachery.

        I read somewhere was Ed Davey mainly responsible for the bonkers gas agenda but perhaps I am wrong.

        1. Mark
          September 27, 2021

          Richard North has a comprehensive writeup of Ed Davey’s involvement with gas storage policy over the years at the Turbulent Times website. It starts with his calls for more storage in 2006, and covers his subsequent failure to support several other storage projects while he was minister. The first problems with leaks at Rough emerged during his time, resulting in a reduction of capacity.

          Of course the other big Lib Dem failure was the zero carbon housing policy that had to be rescinded for being infeasibly costly, even though it was only to apply to new homes. It seems energy ministers never learn.

  5. Alan Holmes
    September 26, 2021

    Yet another fear narrative promoted by our wonderful msm who rank as the biggest threat to our society second only to our government.

    1. John Hatfield
      September 26, 2021

      Correct Alan.

    2. MiC
      September 26, 2021

      The Right were more than happy with the fear narratives about the European Union that they trumpeted endlessly during the referendum run-up.

      As you sow, so shall you reap.

      1. jon livesey
        September 26, 2021

        I’ll take a shortage of petrol over German corruption any day.

        1. Peter Parsons
          September 27, 2021

          Because looking at the way Covid-related contracts were handed out, nothing similar ever goes on in the corridors of power in the UK. Yeah, right.

      2. Peter2
        September 27, 2021

        Project Fear was the remain campaign tactic MiC.
        Are you revising history again?

        1. MiC
          September 27, 2021

          So what was the utterly misleading “Breaking Point” poster, then?

          1. Peter2
            September 27, 2021

            So one poster about freedom of movement translates in your mind to ” trumpeted endlessly”
            Ridiculous compared to the endless Project Fear Campaign mounted by Remain
            Mind I’m very happy you lot did mount a totally negative referendum campaign because it helped us win.

    3. Hat man
      September 26, 2021

      Yes, Alan, our media is doing a great job, especially the BBC, which is why its Chief Exec. Tim Davie has just been given a £75,000 pay rise. His extraordinary talents would surely have been wasted had he stayed as a Conservative Party local politician, as he was in the 90s.

    4. Nota#
      September 26, 2021

      @Alan Holmes +1 so, so true. Then again it plays into the controlling hands of a dictating Government

    5. jon livesey
      September 26, 2021

      No, sorry, but the media only publish what readers will read, because these days they make their money by selling advertising.

      Any time you object to what the msm are writing, it’s really about what people want to read. Many people want to read what is sensational, melodramatic and exciting.

      This is why Project Fear keeps evolving. First we were going to starve as soon as we voted to leave the EU, then we were supposed to starve when they refused us an FTA, then we were supposed to starve when we actually left, now it’s next Christmas, and when Christmas comes and goes it will be the following Christmas.

      It’s the drama readers want, not the facts. Readers will read about starvation in the UK while the turkey is in the oven. It’s that Dunkirk Spirit.

      1. hefner
        September 28, 2021

        jl, +1, as recently written by Jim Waterson ‘the UK (is)… a load of messy types who live for drama’. And I would add with Becky Brown ‘but think of themselves full of Blitz Spirit’.

    6. Cheshire Girl
      September 27, 2021

      +1

  6. The Prangwizard
    September 26, 2021

    The problem, as I see it, has arisen as part of big businesses wish to sabotage Brexit. It would not surprise me that the story put about that deliveries couldn’t be made was helped along by their broadcast media friends who made as much they could by repetition, saying later there was no problem (to cover themselves) but this was of course too late.

    The worse thing though is that people have lost confidence in your party’s government and its competence and any belief in what your PM and ministers say. I have.

    An example of lack of ‘Boris’s word and leadership – we were told there would be no relaxation of the issue of work visas, and in my view there needn’t or shouldn’t be. But guess what, being a weak leader, he panicked and relented thus confirming in peoples mind there is a problem.

    Why did ministers not emphasise firmly on the media that steps were being taken to loosen things up on getting more HGV drivers here at home? Maybe they knew that more than likely he would cave in so didn’t want to risk their reputations.

    When this particular panic dries up we may have thousands of foreign drivers -should they be foolish enough to come over here -undermining the whole issue of controlling immigration, encouraging self-reliance and sufficiency – and remedying low wages. There will no doubt be more demands for more workers in more areas.

    Total farce. There can be no doubt now this country is going down the pan under ‘Boris’.

    1. MiC
      September 26, 2021

      No-one need lift a finger to “sabotage” brexit.

      It is an inherently self-destructive enterprise in its very essence.

      All right-minded people are trying to limit the damage on the other hand, yet get called “traitors” by the fundamentalists for so doing.

      1. No Longer Anonymous
        September 26, 2021

        MiC

        Thanks. You were happy for drivers not to see their kids, have to sleep in their cabs for rubbish wages and crap in bushes.

        You are middle class and I claim my £5.

        Thank you very much for confirming.

        1. Peter2
          September 26, 2021

          He is retired and enjoying a fat public sector pension.

        2. MiC
          September 27, 2021

          As someone else said, drivers on the Mainland don’t have to do that, so the difference would appear to be Tory rule, and not European Union membership, wouldn’t it?

      2. Micky Taking
        September 26, 2021

        You lift and press fingers on a keyb every day hoping to sabotage it.

    2. Nota#
      September 26, 2021

      @The Prangwizard +1 and a few times over. The real suspicion is that Boris cant think on his own he needs the Overlords of the EU Commission to tell him what to do. He needs the UK to fail so as to remove the last remnants of democracy in exchange for the autocratic dictatorships we had from the EU. He is trying to win David Cameron’s referendum stance for him by the back door

    3. jon livesey
      September 26, 2021

      “The problem, as I see it, has arisen as part of big businesses wish to sabotage Brexit. ”

      That’s one way to put it. In fact, big business are trying the cherry pick Brexit. They like the freedom to trade worldwide without EU interference and over-regulation, but they also liked the way they were able to exploit part-trained EU labour at rock bottom wages that undercut UK wage levels and set very low floor on what UK low income workers were able to earn.

      A world in which they can trade freely but still exploit imported EU labour is their dream, so that is what they are asking for.

      We ought to remember that No 10 works for us, and not for the EU, so we should only allow EU labour into the UK depending on actual need, not based on EU “ideals”. Let the EU exploit their own workers, and let us not help them.

      1. MiC
        September 27, 2021

        Employment, contract, strike, and TU law – apart from H&S such as WTD – is an entirely sovereign matter for member countries.

        THAT is why UK workers got such a raw deal, because thanks to Tory rule they cannot defend themselves as can their peers on the Mainland.

        1. Peter2
          September 27, 2021

          Twaddle the EU treaty laws developed treaty based rules regulations and directives which impacted employment laws
          PS
          Still no answer to my challenge to you.
          Would you reverse secret ballots before strikes and would you reverse legislation to prohibit secondary picketing?

          1. hefner
            September 28, 2021

            P2, what challenge? That he is ‘retired and enjoying a fat public sector pension’?
            Is this how you initiate a ‘decent debate’?

            Could you please help me and put ‘reverse secret ballots … picketing’ into anything that had been written above by any of the contributors. Thanks.

            You are the one ‘twaddling’: whatever ‘EU treaty based rules regulations and directives’ their application was left to the individual member states to apply.
            As the international exporting businessman with experience trading in the EU (you claim to be or have been), can you please explain why the labour laws are different in France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Poland, … Can you explain why provisions for social security, compensation for workers’ sickness and unemployment are different in the various EU27 countries.

          2. Peter2
            September 28, 2021

            Marty wrote recently (you must have missed it being so busy responding to me constantly) that he wanted to reverse the Tory employment laws.
            I asked him if he wanted to therefore reverse laws on secret ballots before strikes or laws on secondary picketing.
            And he never replied.
            So I was reminding him about it heffy.
            Got it now?

          3. hefner
            September 28, 2021

            P2, indeed, I had missed it. I cannot ‘monitor’ several days in one go. Apologies.
            As someone else had said some days ago, there is still life outside this blog.

          4. Peter2
            September 28, 2021

            The amount of time you spend researching and writing your responses to me I’m surprised you have any time left heffy.

  7. mancunius
    September 26, 2021

    As you say, it was the multinational petrol companies that put out the word ‘rationing’ to trigger panic-buying. The multinationals have wormed their way into a virtual retail monopoly that is abusive for producers and wholesalers. The retail sections need to be broken up, to make the majors less complacent about reducing supply. Then they will automatically be forced into ensuring that they have adequately-paid, adequately staffed tanker fleets.
    Maybe just coincidentally, it was the EEC that allowed them to occupy their monopoly position in the 1960s, consolidate it in the intervening decades, and use tailor-made EU regulations to exclude entry by competitors; and they were also some of the biggest cheerleaders for remaining in the EU, and now for rejoining, as it is so amenable to their ‘needs’ for the low-paid cross-frontier workers the EU so kindly provides them with.

    1. No Longer Anonymous
      September 26, 2021

      +1

  8. Ian Wragg
    September 26, 2021

    I believe there ha been some mischief making by a Remainer TV announcer.
    The thing is it worked and you’re issuing temporary drivers visas which will become permanent.
    How about getting the DVLA back to work and start issuing licences.
    How about clearing the backlog of tests.
    This is what you get when the Civil Serpents are left to run the country.

    1. MiC
      September 26, 2021

      I wonder if the driver of the white van pictured by Emily Thornberry has been able to fill up?

      That’s the end of his income until he can, if not, isn’t it?

      I doubt that this is wasted on him and on his millions of peers, do you, Ian?

      Labour would have kept us in the Single Market, and he’d have been fine then. Those drivers wouldn’t have gone home.

      Incidentally, the pan-European association of drivers has strongly advised its members against coming back to the UK. Given how thousands of them were treated here last Christmas I doubt that they’ll need much dissuasion either.

      1. a-tracy
        September 26, 2021

        The thousands of drivers got stranded in the UK at Christmas because of the French! What on earth are you talking about how they were treated, we gave them free tests to get home. The French just blockaded the port.

        1. MiC
          September 27, 2021

          They didn’t see it that way.

          They rightly saw the problems as being created entirely by the UK’s leaving the European Union – thanks to the Tories.

          1. a-tracy
            September 27, 2021

            no they didn’t Martin, I spoke to several of them and they blamed the French.

        2. Micky Taking
          September 27, 2021

          more lies from Martin.

        3. Micky Taking
          September 27, 2021

          there were Brits walking along the lines of foreign lorries handing out food and drink.
          Did you miss that in the news Martin?

      2. Peter2
        September 26, 2021

        What a dreadful sneering post MiC
        Labour has been rejected by the electorate.
        Their worst election result since 1935.

    2. No Longer Anonymous
      September 26, 2021

      My recent trip abroad… the private airline and Covid testing documentation was all easy peasy and efficient… except the YouGov forms which had my wife and I tearing our hair out for their illiteracy and convoluted format.

      It’s as though they want to stop you from doing things.

  9. Stephen Reay
    September 26, 2021

    If a £30 limit becomes the normal, then this will cause problems for me . I have booked holidays from October to December using my motorhome. £30 will just fill over the 1/4 tank mark. I would just end up having to cancel the trips. Thanks very much conservatives.

    1. Sharon
      September 26, 2021

      Stephen
      Go to different garages on different days until your tank is full?

    2. X-Tory
      September 26, 2021

      In this case it is the stupidity of the petrol stations that needs to be blamed. Far from imposing a maximum sale, they should impose a MINIMUM one. A maximum limit on fuel forces drivers to keep returning to the petrol station more often than necessary, creating more queues. A minimum sale would prevent the panic-buyers from topping up a fuel tank with more than enough in it already. Of course, ministers are also too stupid to recommend this …

    3. Mark
      September 26, 2021

      It is the wrong solution. Drivers should only be permitted to fill up if their tank is less than say an eighth full. Let them fill to the brim at that point, but then they must wait until either the situation is normal again, or their tank is once again only an eighth full. Such a rule would bar most from filling up immediately, and lower demand, allowing replenishment of petrol stations.

    4. a-tracy
      September 26, 2021

      Stephen, how long does a quarter of tank last you?

    5. Micky Taking
      September 27, 2021

      well if you are starting with an empty tank – who is to blame?

    6. MiC
      September 27, 2021

      If you voted Leave then jolly good.

      You didn’t care about the results of your irresponsibility on millions ranging from seafood fishers to cheese exporters to car engine makers, did you?

  10. Brexit has FAILED
    September 26, 2021

    If only we could have access to a labour market in the European continent.

    1. X-Tory
      September 26, 2021

      Where there is a shortage of 400,000 drivers? Remoaner idiocy never ends!
      Besides, all the EU drivers who were living and working in the UK before Brexit have a lifelong entitlement to remain in the UK. So Brexit has NOTHING to do with this shortage of drivers.

      1. Callum
        September 27, 2021

        X-Tory, thanks for showing up the idiocy of Brexit. Yes, they have an entitlement to stay. No, they won’t in fact stay, because they are sick of being demonised by right wing politicians and they can get better jobs in a borderfree market of 27 countries. Result? We don’t have enough drivers. Stupid stupid Brexit

        Reply They we’re not demonised but offered the right to stay here!

    2. Dave Andrews
      September 26, 2021

      Yes, we could use the low wage expectations of eastern Europeans to suppress wages of British drivers.
      That does mean however that new British drivers are unlikely to come along, as the pay won’t constitute an adequate livelihood (given the hours and working conditions). Unless we can employ entirely from Europe and other low wage regions, we will still be short.

      1. Micky Taking
        September 27, 2021

        Perhaps we could employ 50,000 drivers from China? just a thought.

      2. a-tracy
        September 27, 2021

        Dave Andrews: The hours – “The maximum number of hours a HGV driver can work in any given week is 56 hours. This is worked out by driving for nine hours on four days, and 10 hours for another two days.” that is if they choose to work a day’s extra overtime, many work five days per week. “After 4.5 hours of driving, HGV drivers are legally mandated to take a break of at least 45 minutes. “. The rules on driving hours are based on regulations set by the European Union, but they’re also enshrined in British law.

      3. Original Richard
        September 27, 2021

        Dave Andrews :

        Importing cheap labour from an ever expanding EU to avoid the expense and trouble of training our own people plus depressing wages always was the Remainer plan as evidenced by Mr. Cameron’s speeches in Ankara and Kazakhstan :

        In Ankara 2010 Mr Cameron said : “I am here to make the case for Turkey’s membership of the European Union and to fight for it. Why so soon?’ Well, I can tell you why: because Turkey is vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our politics and our diplomacy.”

        In Kazakhstan July 2013 Mr. Cameron said he wanted the EU “to extend all the way from the Atlantic to the Urals” – thus including 7 or more ‘stan’ countries.

        Unfortunately the Labour Party also supported the globalists wish for large scale immigration because they believed that they would gain electorally from decreasing wage levels.

    3. Peter2
      September 26, 2021

      We do.

  11. Stephen Reay
    September 26, 2021

    It might be better to just cancel Xmas this year. There’s no turkeys, no toys and probably no veg as no one is available to pick them. Parents can say to their children that santa has covid and his little helpers have had to self isolate.

    1. Andy
      September 26, 2021

      There were 17.4m turkeys in 2016.

      1. Micky Taking
        September 27, 2021

        my god – humour from the winner of the misery prize.

    2. glen cullen
      September 26, 2021

      There’s no vegetables because of all the new woke pretend vegans

      1. Mike Wilson
        September 26, 2021

        I’m a vegan. I eat lots of vegetables. The greengrocer in town, which stocks produce from local farms, is overflowing with produce.

        1. MiC
          September 27, 2021

          Yeah, they don’t need carbon dioxide to stun them before harvest, do they?

        2. Micky Taking
          September 27, 2021

          doesn’t sell it all due to price?

        3. glen cullen
          September 27, 2021

          I acknowledge and respect that you’re a vegan and not a woke pretend vegan…hope I didn’t offend you

    3. a-tracy
      September 26, 2021

      Oh get a grip Stephen and stop over reacting. There are plenty of the produce and products you mention around, perhaps you should shop early if you are so scared and freeze your bird ready for Christmas. Perhaps it will do everyone a favour to not spend so much on toys at Christmas and take a leaf out of the money saving experts advice sheets.

      There are plenty of unemployed people in this Country, perhaps our benefits system needs a serious looking at if they don’t have to take available work because they’re better off unemployed.

      1. Micky Taking
        September 27, 2021

        ah- Tracy….I think we are getting close to the crux of the ailing economy.

  12. oldwulf
    September 26, 2021

    Presumably, when petrol and diesel vehicles are abolished …… the fuel shortage problem is resolved.

    1. glen cullen
      September 26, 2021

      Now I understand why the tories have been building all those cycle lanes

    2. Mike Wilson
      September 26, 2021

      Not at all. The fuel (electricity)!will be rationed.

  13. harry again
    September 26, 2021

    The HGV driver shortage is caused by incompetence and mismanagement of the companies affected.
    Instead of training drivers and paying a decent wage they imported labour from the EUSSR to avoid the expense.
    The usual short term thinking.
    The problem doesn’t end there, the whole gamut of building trades is also affected (the next pigeon to come home to roost).

    Now they blame anyone but themselves, they’ll be looking for taxpayer handouts next.

    1. Everhopeful
      September 26, 2021

      +1

    2. Shirley M
      September 26, 2021

      +1 harry again. I saw this happening years ago, when drivers were forced into freelancing and agency work (to save employers even more money), and suffered the extra costs and taxes via IR35. Many HGV drivers packed it in and who can blame them?

      1. Jamie
        September 26, 2021

        Same thing happened with our merchant navy .. now it’s all gone as we knew it .. gone to agencies and foreign flag

    3. MiC
      September 27, 2021

      They mistreated their staff because sovereign Tory employment law absolutely allows them to do that.

      It’s why not many people want to be drivers.

      1. a-tracy
        September 27, 2021

        Who mistreated their staff, Martin? Name and shame.

      2. Peter2
        September 27, 2021

        With hundreds of thousands of drivers from Eastern Europe willing to work for min wage what would you do if you were the MD of a transport company in a very competitive market MiC?

        1. MiC
          September 28, 2021

          It’s not a job I’d want.

          Incidentally, Germany has a whole range of different minimum wages for various jobs.

          I think that the UK should too.

          (You won’t hear that on the BBC.)

      3. dixie
        September 28, 2021

        @MiC You better have a word with your Labour party execs then.
        From an Independent article dated 25 July 2021;
        “Labour is quietly recruiting staff on insecure temporary contracts with worse employment conditions while it moves to make a third of its existing permanent employees redundant, The Independent can reveal.
        The party is being accused of using underhand “fire and rehire” practices condemned by Keir Starmer himself in a speech just a few months ago.”

        Doesn’t make you proud to act the proselytizing socialist – instead of dealing with the reality of being etc ed.

        1. dixie
          September 28, 2021

          @ed – thanks for the editing ed, now he will be up all night wondering what I wrote 🙂

  14. zorro
    September 26, 2021

    Agreed, likewise for me too. This looks like a bit of a manufactured crisis just after the big companies met with the government two weeks ago (and subsequent leaks to maximise their profit) as they have managed OK in the last six months. There are underlying issues that we have mentioned which need sorting, but there is no excuse for shortage apart from the lemmings who drive 5 miles before needing to fill up again! Including some of those who are no longer working when I have walked or driven past a petrol station.

    zorro

  15. zorro
    September 26, 2021

    The concerning issue for me is that this government is getting a reputation for being on the back foot and a bit useless.

    zorro

    1. X-Tory
      September 26, 2021

      A “bit” useless? Hahahaha – they are a bunch of complete morons. It’s not as if the answers were that hard to understand. People like our host are constantly telling them what needs to be done, but they steadfastly refuse to act. They are a complete disaster.

    2. MiC
      September 26, 2021

      No, stop, please, Zorro, it’s painful…

  16. Mark B
    September 26, 2021

    Good evening.

    We are well aware of the root cause of the problem and the government’s solution to it. Pity the solution does not address the root causes but rather papers over them as, tackling said causes would require the government to reverse certain policies which would be embarrassing. As I mentioned in the piece on 23rd of this month where I gave a list of how the government responds to such matters, it procedures, such as they are, rarely solve thing.

  17. Newmania
    September 26, 2021

    Shortages of carbon dioxide food, petrol, construction workers , drivers of course ,care home workers , gas , blood collection tubes , cheap nasty development forced down our throats to kick start construction all due to Brexit or made worse by Brexit. The late small and inadequate visa scheme was delayed because to admit it was required was to admit Remain had been right .
    This is just the start. Our debts are much worse because of Brexit, inflation is higher because of Brexit and the UK now confronts barriers with our largest trading suppliers and partners. Much of these more serious problem will take years to work through the system.
    Meanwhile America has twice told us we mater as much as a Mosquito to them , no trade deal and not a word on Afghanistan . Taxes up , opportunity down, the country slipping into chaos and the useless system by which we are misruled consists of tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber both agreed we shall all pretend none of this has anything to do with Brexit.
    Nothing has only one cause but one cause is common to all our problems . Brexit

    Reply The main cause of extra debt was COVID!

    1. villaking
      September 27, 2021

      Sir John: reply to your reply – no the main cause was the government’s overreaction to Covid, not Covid itself

  18. agricola
    September 26, 2021

    Reduce the problem by setting minimum order levels at, for example £40.00. This would frighten off those who queue jusr to top up because failure to meet the minimum would cost them. Confine can purchases to 2 litres max for lawn mowers and similar.

    I suspect but do not know that this media led panic buy was triggered by feeds from industry who wanted access to cheap driving labour. The answer is for government to free up the process of obtaining an HGV driving licence and to do so rapidly. Then to look at the infrastructure in the UK that should be there to support drivers. Compared with Europe it is abysmal.

  19. Chris S
    September 26, 2021

    Not everyone was out filling cans for extra fuel for their regular car. I wanted 10 litres of super-unleaded for my 54-year-old MGC Roadster into which I have just re-installed the engine after a clutch change and gearbox and overdrive rebuild. The tank is empty and until I can get some, I can’t get it back on the road. Round here, super-unleaded appears not to be a high priority for deliveries, yet many cars over ten years old would be expensively damaged by being filled with the new E10 fuel. Without super-unleaded, these cars are effectively forced off the road.

    1. glen cullen
      September 26, 2021

      The Tory green dream

    2. No Longer Anonymous
      September 26, 2021

      In a fuel crisis you shouldn’t be allowed to drive a hobby car.

  20. formula57
    September 26, 2021

    All well and good that “Ministers have assured us there is no shortage of fuel in the country…” but I wish to rely upon and so await Marcus Rashford’s view.

    1. glen cullen
      September 26, 2021

      I thought that was the funniest thing I’ve read all week until I realised that 650 people will take the advice seriously

    2. Micky Taking
      September 27, 2021

      Marcus will reassure all those single mums living in cold and getting colder housing dumps, that not only will they have to continue finding food for the kids from donations, but cost of electricity and gas is not going to be a problem because they can’t afford to use it anyway. And they have never visited a petrol station so must wonder why roads are crammed with queues of cars.

  21. miami.mode
    September 26, 2021

    Both Huw Merriman and Grant Shapps have been on TV recently commenting on how few women HGV drivers there are.
    Do they not live in the same world that the rest of us do?
    Women do not necessarily pursue certain types of employment because of the conditions or type of work involved.
    Truck drivers based in a depot often have to start work at various times of the day with many having to start at midnight or in the very early morning and long distance drivers often have nights away whilst virtually living in their cabs and sometimes going away on a Monday and returning on Thursday or Friday which obviously does not fit in with the lifestyle that most women aspire to, especially if they have children.
    It’s no wonder that many people have such low opinions of some MPs.

  22. Mark
    September 26, 2021

    There has been a shortage of HGV drivers for months, but no shortage of tanker drivers. It is evident that desperate distribution companies have temped a few tankers drivers (normally the best paid HGV drivers because of the added skills required) with big pay offers, creating a shortage at one particular firm that performs deliveries on contract for BP and Tesco as I understand it. Tanker deliveries are no longer made by major oil brands’ own drivers, and indeed most of our refineries are now run by independent companies. This has been allowed to escalate thanks to fill-ma-can journalism at the BBC and elsewhere.

    The average motorist gets through a tank of fuel about every three weeks or more. If tanks are half full on average and everyone tries to fill at once that is increasing demand by a factor of 10 in the short term, and while petrol pumps can fill cars very rapidly – 300 miles of range per minute – there is no way that deliveries can keep up with such a surge.

    Of real concern for supplies is the story that HMRC are threatening to ask that Stanlow refinery go into administration over VAT bills deferred from lockdown that are now becoming payable. Whether other refineries are similarly affected is not in the public domain, but it cannot help that refineries are now incurring extra costs in supplying lower mpg E10 fuels. As refineries are no longer oil company owned and depend on offtake agreements with major retailers including the former oil companies and supermarkets, they are probably hamstrung by contracts that did not envisage the sorts of consequences that lockdown has imposed on their operations. Mr Kwarteng and HMRC need to tread carefully to ensure continuity of supply.

  23. Ian Pennell
    September 26, 2021

    Dear John Redwood

    As a Conservative MP of many years’ standing you will know that when you have an Inflation Problem and a Supply Crisis- Petrol, Gas, Food, Commodities, Clothing, etc., that the Economic solutions that are required are the truly Conservative ones: That is Tax Cuts and Deregulation so that the Producers and the Suppliers can manufacture goods and import goods (to sell on) more cheaply.

    What you do not do is put taxes up on businesses (i.e., the proposed Corporation Tax and National Insurance Tax hikes) and tell companies to “Pay Higher Wages”! That only excacerbates the Inflation Problem by piling costs onto Britain’s Producers. How many of your Conservative colleagues actually understand Supply-side Economics who can then get the Government to change course before we have blackouts and double-digit Inflation like in the 1970’s? Perhaps, Sir you could educate the younger Conservative MP’s on the subject of Supply-Side Economics and on the policies needed to tame Inflation- and increase real- terms Economic growth- and, in time- extra revenues for the Treasury to improve Public Services.

    If taxes must be raised (at all), why not put a Wealth Tax on mansions or a Luxury Levy on sales of Fine Art and yachts? These would less impact the Productive side of the general Economy and – in line with the Levelling Up policy- would be more progressive? A bonfire of Quangos and axing HS2 would also raise over £100 billion to fund Levelling Up and Social Care; that should be considered before resorting to Tax hikes.

    Someone also needs to tell the Bank of England to “Stop Printing Money” ASAP: The Markets are beginning to circle and doubt the Bank of England’s credibility and we now have Short-Sellers betting against Sterling! Boris Johnson would do well to -in his Party Conference speech-tell the Bank of England to “Stop Printing Money Now” and to tell it to concentrate on its day-job of “Getting Inflation Back To 2%”. That would go some way to reassuring the Currency Markets and thus further preventing Inflation getting out of hand.

  24. Original Richard
    September 26, 2021

    “….and some also wanting to fill extra cans for storage.”

    I need to fill my cans for fuel for my mower, strimmer and blower/vacuum but I daren’t go to the filling station for fear of being lynched by people who have been gaslighted into a permanent state of fear and panic by our national broadcaster.

    1. Micky Taking
      September 27, 2021

      do you still own a lawn rake, shears, and is the grass growing?

  25. glen cullen
    September 26, 2021

    I can understand people panic buying petrol…. we’ve only got 8 years left to use it

    You reap what you sow – mad panic queuing for EV electricity will become the norm 2030…this is just the prelude to the new tory green age

  26. Hazlet
    September 26, 2021

    What we clearly see is the shortage of petrol and diesel in the forecourts

    What we don’t see is the amount of milk that is being poured down the drains

  27. Mark
    September 26, 2021

    Mr Shapps and Mr Kwarteng should note that the present elevated demand for motor fuels is exactly what would occur with EVs operating under a V2G grid top-up scheme. The whole vehicle fleet would end up with depleted batteries following a period of low wind, and look to recharge at once, instead of the steady daily average that could be expected with a reliable electricity supply. Moreover, with an extended period of low wind such as we have endured recently, many would be unable to do so at all for days or weeks at anything other than a high premium price or simply because they are denied by smart metering. They should review what happens to the economy when there have been fuel shortages due to strikes: these events would become regular occurrences, dependent on the weather.

    1. Mark
      September 26, 2021

      I note that GWPF have started to announce their findings about CCC costings of net zero, beginning with an underestimate of the likely extra cost of buying EVs between now and 2050 of up to £1.8 trillion. So we have £1.4 trillion plus £1.8 trillion = £3.2 trillion so far, before we even being to look at the real costs of insulating homes or the unaffordable and infeasible schemes for producing energy or the economic consequences of high cost energy on GDP and employment and the balance of payments and health and life expectancy.

      Net zero is a policy that needs to be ditched. I also note that during hi UN speed, the PM promised to reduced our emissions from 56% of 1990 levels in 2020 to 32% of 1990 levels by 2030 – some 3/7ths, or 42.8%. He appears not to have consulted Parliament about this, and perhaps not anyone other than his wife. The only way to attain such a target will be to switch off our gas supplies, slaughter our cows and shut down the economy. Never mind Kermit, he appears to be as mad as a box of frogs.

      1. Mark
        September 26, 2021

        …. his UN speech…
        Strangely a massive commitment apparently completely ignored by the press. You’d have thought that a plan to close the economy would be top headline.

      2. Sakara Gold
        September 26, 2021

        Y@Mark
        As usual your arguments are demonstrably false

        The costs of doing nothing and allowing the status quo to continue would be far higher than going for net zero burning of fossil fuels. The current price rises for fossil fuels are being forced upon us – by large multinational corporations who are facing an exisential threat to their business model from the disruptive renewable green energy industry. Hence the greenwashing by the fossil fuel companies

        The algorithm used by GWPF their CCC costings has been criticised as biased and favouring highly exagerated inputs.

        “economic consequences of high cost energy on GDP and employment and the balance of payments and health and life expectancy” Exactly – and which industry has imposed the current destabilising quadrupling of the gas price upon the world?

        THe cheapest form of energy available to us today is onshore wind, followed by midsummer solar.

        Reply Gas was dear because there was so little wind!

        1. hefner
          September 27, 2021

          Reply to reply: Sorry Sir John, but you will have to put a bit ‘more meat’ on your comment. As written it does not make any sense.

        2. Mark
          September 27, 2021

          I think that what is being demonstrated is that the CCC have provided grossly underestimated costs of their net zero programme. The alleged benefits you claim are vanishingly likely to be attained, both because there is no way that global emissions will be cut to net zero and because the estimates of the degree of change assumed are vanishingly unlikely. The net result is that it is clear that the superior strategy is to adapt to such climate change as occurs, and meanwhile to ensure that we have a vibrant economy that can easily afford to handle that. That entails having low cost energy and continuing to work on developing more efficient ways of using it, and on the only technology capable of keeping civilisation going as and when oil and gas from underground become scarcer – nuclear.

      3. Sakara Gold
        September 26, 2021

        @Mark
        “switch off our gas supplies, slaughter our cows and shut down the economy” This alarmist nonsense

        During the recent once-in-60 years shortage of wind – which only lasted 3 days – the gas powerstations easily coped with the the current demand and the price of overnight “Economy 7” nightime electricity remained substantially below daytime spot. On the fourth day once again wind, solar and low-carbon provided 57% of electricity demand.

        New nuclear, providing it’s traditional base-line electricity plus it’s ability to cope with other plant outages will deal with intermittent EV charging due to variable wind. Long term, the introduction of utility scale energy storage will resolve the problem

        1. Mark
          September 27, 2021

          We are in the middle of a warm autumn, not the depths of cold winter, and yet we have repeatedly turned to coal to keep the lights on. One of the more surprising features has been that even overnight in the small hours we have seen very high electricity system prices. I plan to go through the tedious process of downloading all the data a day at a time and producing charts to show what has been happening. The reality is that wind has been underperforming all year.

          I note that ROCs submitted under the renewables obligation for 2020/21 have fallen short of the requirement by a record margin because of much lower than anticipated output. The way the scheme works the ROC generators will be compensated despite their failure to produce. The effect will be even greater for 2021/22 unless the wind blows strongly all winter.

        2. Mark
          September 27, 2021

          Storage to balance a renewables based grid is infeasibly large and costly, and will always remain so. There will always be another 2021 (or worse) that would require large amounts to be delivered from storage over many months that would have to have been put into store perhaps several years previously. It’s never going to happen.

          1. Sakara Gold
            September 27, 2021

            @ Mark
            Look, how many times do I have to explain to you that I DO NOT propose to flood hundreds of square miles of the Highands to build another pumped water reservoir system. I only used water because its a heavy fill for the storage tank and as 1 m3 weighs 1 tonne. It sits in an excavated cavity 100m deep and 220m X 140m square. You read “water” and immediately came to the wrong concusion. Repeatedly. Far from being unfeasible it is eminently so, being a simple idea using off-the-shelf technology

            You are also mistaken on the costing of the large mass storage system. A respected contruction industry chartered quantity surveyor has contacted me with an estimate of £188 million to build a fullscale demonstration plant. I suggest that you go back to school and do an “O” level in maths.ths.

          2. Micky Taking
            September 27, 2021

            Sakara – ‘Look, how many times do I have to explain to you that I DO NOT propose to flood hundreds of square miles of the Highands to build another pumped water reservoir system.’
            Oh I was getting quite interested in the idea.

          3. Mark
            September 28, 2021

            Your nonsense on stilts proposal?

            Several commenters with engineering experience gently tried to explain the problems with your scheme. But what you simply haven’t grasped at all is the scale of storage required to balance a renewables based grid. We are not talking about a few GWh, as at say Dinorwig. Whatever scheme is devised must handle many 10s of TWh, just at present levels of electricity demand. Run the entire economy on electricity and you would be needing the best part of 100TWh of storage. Over 100,000 times the size of of your scheme. So if for the sake of the argument I accept your £188 million costing for one unit, we are looking at a ~£20 trillion investment.

    2. No Longer Anonymous
      September 26, 2021

      +1

    3. Sakara Gold
      September 26, 2021

      @Mark
      Your points are overly pessimistic and alarmist

      The V2G grid top-up scheme includes provision to restrict the amount of electricity paid back into the grid by EVs charging overnight. In any case the fleet operators such as the ambulance service will install their own limiters which will disconnect when say 80% of charge. Long range EV models from Toyota, BMW, VW and GM with solid state batteries will hit the market in 2022 with ultra-fast overnight charging and will have built-in smart limiters

      1. Mark
        September 27, 2021

        I have looked very carefully at the results of the experimental V2G programme run by Cenex. I note that participants were paid about twice the standard tariff for electricity supplied back to the grid, and they did not have to fund the expensive two way chargers. There was no consideration of the consequences of a period of low wind leaving batteries depleted across the vehicle fleet, and there was the security that the grid was not relying on V2G to keep going.

        These toy studies lie behind the unrealistic assumptions made by the CCC, BEIS and National Grid on the role of V2G. They have ignored criticism of their lack of realism. As it seems do you.

  28. Andy
    September 26, 2021

    The Brexitists are out in force today, desperately trying to claim Brexit is not to blame for the chaos. Nobody believes them.

    The Brexitists are frit. And so they should be. So they should be.

    1. No Longer Anonymous
      September 26, 2021

      Andy’s ancestors circa 1833 “You seen the price of cotton since they abolished slavery ?”

      You were happy to see drivers on rubbish wages crapping in bushes and sleeping in the middle of nowhere in their cabs so your kids could have a “gap yah” in the French Alps.

      There is no shortage of fuel tanker drivers. This is Remainer stoked panic.

      1. Mark
        September 26, 2021

        I think you are right. There were enough drivers to keep forecourts supplied until the first reports of a few sites running out on Thursday. I suspect that some drivers had been lured away by higher pay by supermarkets trying to keep their supplies moving. The more general shortage is in HGV drivers and has been going on for ages, not tanker drivers. Supermarket shelves have had empty spaces for months, with many lines taking many weeks to be resupplied.

      2. Micky Taking
        September 27, 2021

        Andy and his Tesla ilk have been joining queues to petrol stations – well you’ve time on your hands…

    2. Peter2
      September 26, 2021

      Nothing to do with Covid.
      No , just brexit.
      Everything is brexit eh andy?

      1. Andy
        September 27, 2021

        Yes. Everything is Brexit. You better used to it.

        1. Peter2
          September 27, 2021

          Hilarious andy
          You are obsessed.

      2. hefner
        September 27, 2021

        ‘I just prefer decent debate’ …

        1. Peter2
          September 27, 2021

          Unlike you.

    3. a-tracy
      September 27, 2021

      Andy, we’re not the ones flapping around.

  29. jon livesey
    September 26, 2021

    You can create panic buying any time you want, just by predicting shortages. And in this case some very unethical employers are trying to bounce the Government into “temporary” free movement by creating just such a wave of panic buying of fuel, so that they can then employ imported EU drivers at undercutting wages.

    The thing that is really surprising is that a lot of leftists are supporting the unethical employers just because of their hatred of Brexit.

    1. MiC
      September 27, 2021

      The facts that we have legalised exploitation and a silly puritanical brexit are both because of Toryism, and the two compound each other’s effects.

  30. Narrow Shoulders
    September 26, 2021

    We spent all of Covid-time begging our government to give us freedom to choose. Unfortunately freedom to choose with our current panicky population means panic buying of toilet rolls and petrol that won’t be needed.

    Our population needs to grow a pair and stop watching the news.

    1. hefner
      September 27, 2021

      NS: ‘grow a pair’. I wonder, is it where what takes the place of your brain resides?

      1. Narrow Shoulders
        September 27, 2021

        cool, slightly detached, built in redundancy, highly productive, the product of iterative evolution, production methods which weed out weaker performers. Not a bad place from where to do some serious thinking @hef

      2. Peter2
        September 28, 2021

        What was it you were advising me heffy?

  31. jon livesey
    September 26, 2021

    Angela Rayner calls Conservative voters, no, just Conservative Party members, no, just Conservative MPs, no, just the PM “scum”.

    Tell me this isn’t the first move in mounting a Leadership campaign.

    1. MiC
      September 27, 2021

      She missed a chance to channel Churchill, I think it was.

      Member: “Half of the party opposite are absolute scum”

      Speaker: “I insist that the Honourable Member withdraw her last comment”

      Member: “Very well Mr. Speaker. Half of the party opposite are not absolute scum”

    2. Micky Taking
      September 27, 2021

      I look forward to more balanced eloquence from the opposition front bench.

  32. Dave Andrews
    September 26, 2021

    So the fuel companies have a shortage of drivers. Well why didn’t they see that like years ago, and got training organised? No, they had to employ contractors, whilst the driver pool reduced with retirement.
    Not particularly government’s fault, except for making it unattractive for industry to do training. You’re a mug if you train anyone, because all you do is supply a talent pool to be poached by others who don’t bother.
    Yes Brexit is a factor, but only one amongst many. Eastern Europeans made it possible to suppress wages, but the number who returned and have not come back is well below the shortage.
    This problem isn’t going away any time soon. It would help if government recognised the work done by companies that still do their own training, and making those costs deductible from their tax bill.

    1. MiC
      September 27, 2021

      Maybe they believed Daniel Hannan et al in the Leave campaigns, who said that “No one is thinking of leaving the Single Market”

      1. Peter2
        September 27, 2021

        Or maybe they believed the Prime Minister and his Cabinet and the EU elites who repeatedly said leaving the EU meant leaving the single market.

        1. MiC
          September 28, 2021

          Cameron’s useless apparent leadership of Remain was full of gaffes like that.

          He meant it as a warning, as to just how dire Leave would be without replacement agreements – by no means certain.

          Then your type twisted it into a promise for your lunatic demands, and now we have that dire position of which he tried to warn.

          Well done.

          1. Peter2
            September 28, 2021

            Gaffes?
            He and many others explained exactly what leaving the EU meant.
            Even Remain did in their campaign of Project Fear.
            He and others in the Government said leaving the EU meant leaving the Single Market.
            It is the beating heart of the EU.
            If the UK stayed in the SM then it would have remained in the EU

  33. Iain Gill
    September 26, 2021

    got to do a long return journey next weekend, I should have enough to get there, not so sure I will be able to get back

  34. Iain Gill
    September 26, 2021

    I notice one of the refineries is on the brink of going bust, no doubt the government will bail them out like they have done with the CO2 producers. Really the state intervention is all parts of our life is getting a bit extreme.

    1. MiC
      September 26, 2021

      Bribe them, like the foreign car makers, with your and my money, you mean?

      Yes, I expect so.

      1. Peter2
        September 26, 2021

        Who bribes foreign car makers MiC?
        You msking things upbsgain?

        1. hefner
          September 27, 2021

          06/03/2012 bbc.co.uk ‘The secrets behind Nissan’s Sunderland success story’, £9.3m grant from the Regional Growth Fund.
          Nissan was offered £80m for UK Brexit commitment in October 2016 (news.sky.com, 04/02/2019).
          27/05/2021: Nissan seeks government support for its battery plant gigafactory (Sunday Times, 27/05/2021). Ashwani Gupta, Nissan’s COO, July 2021 ‘For sure, without the government support, it would not have been possible’.

          P2, didn’t you know that?

          1. Peter2
            September 27, 2021

            Yes but that isn’t a bribe.
            Surely being very very clever you understand the difference heffy?

          2. MiC
            September 27, 2021

            ???

          3. hefner
            September 27, 2021

            Is that nuanced or un-nuanced semantics, P2?

          4. Peter2
            September 27, 2021

            A bribe is illegal hef and marty.

            Surely you understand the difference?

            If you think it is illegal then e mail the CPS

          5. MiC
            September 28, 2021

            Nah, there’s simple bribery and criminal bribery.

            It’s not an offence to bribe children with treats to do what is required, for instance.

            You don’t seem to have much experience of life or of language.

          6. Peter2
            September 28, 2021

            MiC
            Wrong yet again.
            When you originally accused companies of bribery you knew what you meant.

            You should report your obvious concerns to the authorities.
            But you won’t because nothing illegal has happened and you know it.

        2. hefner
          September 27, 2021

          ‘I just prefer decent debate’ …

          1. Peter2
            September 27, 2021

            Unlike you it seems heffy

    2. Mark
      September 26, 2021

      The alternative is real fuel shortages. Refineries expect much of their supply as crude oil, and fill product tanks ahead of maintenance shutdowns. They are not equipped to import finished products in the volumes required to meet demand without operating.

  35. Mark
    September 26, 2021

    I have taken a look at what has been happening with deliveries of petroleum products and produced the following chart

    https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/amcBl/1/

    The dramatic effect of the pandemic and lockdowns is easy to see, with demand dropping sharply, aviation demand almost zero, the apparent virtual closure of naphtha dependent industry etc. Demand overall is still down about 20% having more than halved in the first lockdown, indicating that the economy is not firing on all cylinders, but also creating a little headroom in road tanker delivery capacity. Unless we are planning on a permanent immediate diminution of the economy, it seems reasonable to plan for restoration of previous levels of demand. There is no way that EVs are going to make much of a dent in the short run (and perhaps not in the long run either when reality hits).

  36. alan jutson
    September 26, 2021

    First it was toilet rolls, then food, then bottled water, now its fuel.

    Certainly all caused by panic buying, the filling station opposite us had a tanker delivery Thursday morning, looking out of the window during the day and evening could see cars queueing all day long Thursday and Friday until filling Station run out on Saturday morning.

    Could not be arsed to queue up myself as had half a tank of fuel in the car.
    Not planning any long journeys, so happy to wait it out until the position is resolved, probably in a couple of weeks.
    Not many cars on the road tonight when I ran a family member home.
    Not the governments fault if people act in a stupid manner, as have the media with speculative headlines.
    Problem is no one believes a word the Government say any more such are the amount of u turns and broken promises, so the more they speak, the worse it gets.

    1. a-tracy
      September 27, 2021

      You forgot ventilators, Alan. This government is being pushed around!

  37. Nota#
    September 26, 2021

    Sir John, The good news is that come next weekend all the panic buying will see people overloaded with the stuff and know where to store it, so there will plenty for every one else.

    The problem the Daily Mail today – ” Up to 90 per cent of forecourts are out of fuel”

    Then of course that failing company BP goes to the Government starts a panic by leaking their concerns. Just to drive home that they need taxpayer money – of course why not, everyone else is getting hand outs.

    The Government is being lead by the MsM because they are so indecisive. They should start with concern for the safety and security of the UK at large.

  38. Nota#
    September 26, 2021

    The Government mustn’t loose site that the ‘driver’ situation is because some noisy companies liked the idea of employing ultra cheap labour. If the UK is to allow a temporary visa for drivers, at the very least it should be mandated that the receive the full going rate for the job and not treated as semi-slave labour. Keep the wages at the going rate and the problem will subside as quickly as it arose

  39. jon livesey
    September 26, 2021

    I thought some facts might be useful. The UK’s current unemployment rate is 4.6% compared to the EU 7.6%, US 5.2%, France 8.0%. Italy 9.0%. Among major Eu economies only Germany is lower than the UK at 3.6%. And this trend is not recent, because the euro area has had almost twice the UK’s unemployment rate for over a decade.

    And since January, employed persons in the UK has risen by 200k, from 32.1m to 32.4m. We may be short of a few HGV drivers, which is why Remain is making such a big song and dance about this, but the overall economy is humming along.

    And that means that local shortages will go away in time. Next month Remain will be screaming about too many truck drivers, or a shortage of beggars on our streets.

  40. Bryan Harris
    September 27, 2021

    This panic buying seems to be different to other times we have seen petrol shortages. This one is induced by fear that normality is slipping away.

    It’s also a reflection on how much trust people have in the government to make problems go away.
    This government has mishandled so many things, blaming the pandemic for issues they should have seen coming and put plans in place for.

    Most people have little hope that this coming winter will not be one of immense shortages, across the board, on top of energy rationing. With lockdowns expected from this government, because they can, there will be very little cheer this coming cold year.

  41. alan jutson
    September 27, 2021

    Wife just spent 30 mins in a traffic jam of cars which were trying to get PAST a queue waiting for fuel at a garage which has just had a delivery.

    Jam from the Bulldog Garage included fouling up two roundabouts and one set of traffic lights on the A329 with cars at a standstill unable to pass.

    Not helping the Green emission lovers, mileage economy, or anyone who wants to try to be efficient for business and or pleasure. Not a soul trying to control this nonsense.

    The world is going crazy !.

    1. a-tracy
      September 27, 2021

      The AA revealed that 250 drivers had to call out breakdown services because they put in the wrong fuel this weekend Alan, this is what panic creates.

      They’ll try a new panic next week with Turkeys for Christmas but people have a choice of other meat or fish and other supermarkets and local farms, we have no choice with fuel we’ve gone from over 13,000 fuel stations in 2000 to 8380 in 2020 source Statista 35% less, lots of Independents closed and a concentration on the big three and hypermarkets. It’s actually interesting that the EU monitors this look it up.

      1. MiC
        September 28, 2021

        The good burghers of the European Union enjoy right old belly laugh as much as anyone else does, Tracy.

        1. Peter2
          September 28, 2021

          Hilarious you call the unelected elite of the EU burghers and even more hilarious you think they are good MiC

  42. ferd
    September 27, 2021

    A further problem is that a large number of cars cannot use the new E10 petrol so pumps selling this product are already rare.

  43. ukretired123
    September 27, 2021

    IR35 bites back the government in more ways than ever imagined.

    1. a-tracy
      September 27, 2021

      Who pays the IR35 the worker (contractor) or the company that engages them?
      Isn’t it the equivalent tax of an employer’s NI?

    2. Peter2
      September 27, 2021

      Correct UKretired.
      It is having a big effect in many areas.

Comments are closed.