Some of you wish to post items based on Labour’s latest campaign about the conduct of Conservative MPs. Others wish to counter post, examining cases involving Labour MPs and their conduct. This site has no wish to do this and is not equipped to investigate the truth or falsehood of the various charges being made. Both sides need to understand that both sides will have their posts binned to be consistent and fair. Writing andĀ publishing an untrue attack on anyone could be a libel.
48 Comments
Comments are closed.
November 12, 2021
No, there’s not much need for that, so long as we have publications such as Private Eye, and which have a far, far wider readership than does this site.
Incidentally, the BBC’s “must see” list of publications might include the Daily Telegraph, the Sun, even the Observer at times, but never seems to include PE for some reason…
November 13, 2021
The reason is that PE makes no secret of its policy: publish without checking for truth, and pay up if they sue, which they probably won’t be able to afford. The other publications and the broadcasters used to have a policy of checking there were two independent and reliable sources. Not sure if they still do that.
November 13, 2021
No, they are quite circumspect, probably more so than the tabloids or even the “broadsheets” – Johnson lost his job over writing baloney for them, remember?
No publication could afford to do as you say as a matter of course.
November 12, 2021
Very wise John.
Am I allowed to suggest that if I had a member of staff accused of bullying their underlings I would look for an online course for them to do (absolute minimum) in order to meet the standards expected of a manager? If the Manager is new to the role and has never been in a position of authority before I would normally put them on an NVQ supervisory management course. This should then quieten the workforce representatives down and satisfy the people that action has been taken and the situation addressed.
November 12, 2021
@a-tracy; “Am I allowed to suggest that if I had a member of staff accused of bullying their underlings I would look for an online course for them to do (absolute minimum) ../etc/..”
Thus in less than two dozen words you have demonstrated what is going so wrong with modern management, how the MSM comment on events and thus how it feeds into social media sites. If I had a employee, customer, anyone, ACCUSED of wrong doing I would want first to get to the hard FACTS, and only then pass judgment, never mind rectification or punishment.
To me, judging from your comment, that NVQ supervisory management course you speak of sounds more like a course in PR, not dispute resolution techniques…
November 12, 2021
I bothered to look around for such courses rather than pre-judge…
Course overview for a Level 3 NVQ in Occupational Work Supervision;
Confirming the Occupational Method of Work in the Workplace
Confirming Work Activities and Resources for an Occupational Work Area in the Workplace
Confirming Work Meets Quality Standards in the Workplace
Contributing to the Circulation of Construction Related Project Information in the Workplace
Co-ordinating and Confirming Dimensional Control Requirements of the Work in the Workplace
Co-ordinating and Organising Work Operations in the Workplace
Developing and Maintaining Good Occupational Working Relationships in the Workplace
Implementing and Maintaining Health, Safety and Welfare in the Workplace
Implementing Procedures to Support the Teamās Performance in the Workplace
Monitoring Progress of Work Against Schedules in the Workplace
Looks an eminently suitable introduction to managing activities in an organisation. No mention of PR but then it doesn’t automatically assume a manager had actually bullied someone, eg as opposed to merely requiring them to actually do their job ..
November 12, 2021
I was thinking of the article about a cabinet member in the Guardian today and yes perhaps I should have been clearer, that was the incident which I understand was investigated.
Thanks Dixie. I actually feel sorry for some MPs that are promoted into positions without first getting a good grounding in HR, after 38 years of hiring and managing staff and accommodating the myriad of employment contract law over that period I find that you canāt get enough information quickly but everyone needs a starting place and the NVQ level 3 Supervisory Management course I would recommend as a building block.
November 12, 2021
Totally agree tracy.
My experience too.
November 13, 2021
@dixie; Well I assume you have at least the NVQ you cite, yet you still made the now common (HR department) error in your original comment, assuming guilt upon an accusation being made…
Never mind an online NVQ in Occupational Work Supervision, some need to consult the online version of the OED! š
November 13, 2021
Jerry, Iāve put four people through the NVQ level 3 supervisory management course and qualification and one current trainee and I find it very beneficial, two people gained the level 4 and a couple the level 5 operational management – one never presumes guilt upon an accusation without a thorough meeting to gain all the accusation (minuted – copies to all parties and preferably recorded with permission of the accuser/accused). An investigatory meeting with the accused, then take the necessary action and yes I have an NVQ Level 3 and an NVQ level 5 and other qualifications relevant to HR. They were not online, but online courses are becoming very useful right now and enabled us to carry on training during covid without stopping staff training so donāt be so dismissive – have you done an online course recently?
November 15, 2021
@a-tracy; Apologizes for the late follow up.
It took three comments before you accepted allegations can be fails, although you have not told us what action, what punishments, you would hand out as a HR manager to those making fails/unproven allegations – remember allegations can wreck lives, proven or not.
November 15, 2021
@Jerry, you do so much assuming and accusing…
“To me, judging from your comment, that NVQ supervisory management course you speak of sounds more like a course in PR, not dispute resolution techniquesā¦”
Looks like a false accusation based on a false assumption.
You claim you would get the “hard facts” before judgement but you demonstrate the complete opposite.
November 15, 2021
@dixie, you do so much assuming and accusing. Ho-hum…
“You claim you would get the āhard factsā before judgement but you demonstrate the complete opposite.”
Mr Kettle, how about looking up the word “debate” in the OED before you make any more accusations of your own. Duh!
November 13, 2021
What would you do if the permanent staff were trying to get rid of the new, temporary manageress, because she was a determined new broom and not inclined to be as subservient as her temporary predecessors? Because she was trying to put the interests of the customers first?
November 13, 2021
It happens Rose, some people take against someone new and want them out. Especially if the new Manager is better than the previous manager and makes them work more efficiently and productively or just wants to change the way that things were done because of inefficiencies, even if those meetings take place prior to change and 95% of the other staff are in agreement with the change you will invariably get one who it doesnāt suit that wants to cause a problem.
November 12, 2021
I’m inclined to think there are “naughty MPs” in all the Westminster parties.
Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
November 12, 2021
Let he who is without a second job, cast the first stone
November 12, 2021
Even if they’ve been convicted of a serious criminal offence?
November 13, 2021
@Donna; First you’ll need to define “a serious criminal offence”…
November 12, 2021
Repeating a claim published (front page style) by a national daily newspaper, or BBC internet media news page, ought to be a subject of potential libel claim by the alleged miscreant. Where does drawing attention to anything become binnable?
If names are avoided, and allegations are kept as generalisations surely you would continue to consider value of posting?
Reply No
November 12, 2021
Sensible, but such a shame that some MP’s find themselves in such a position.
Guess it reflects society in general.
November 12, 2021
Thank goodness!
And as you have made clear hitherto, this is a diary not a news site so readers ought not to be looking for a full array of current news items.
(I recently enjoyed making your point (which I attributed) to an interlocutor that second jobs are undertaken by some one hundred M.P.s who work as government ministers.)
Reply Yes, and that can conflict with the constituency where you have to follow the government line and cannot express your constituents disagreements
November 12, 2021
Reply to Reply: That is very interesting. Maybe I don’t want you in government after all, Sir John.
November 13, 2021
A clear criticism of the role of Whip !
November 13, 2021
@MT; Not at all, just the Ministerial code, @formula57 and our host was talking about Minsters, not MPs.
I actually raised an issue at the outbreak of the Covid pandemic here, asking our host if an MP could raise an issue on the floor of the house, because I knew my own MP as a Minster could not.
November 13, 2021
I suppose that would depend on whether he is a York Minster or a West Minster…
sorry, couldn’t resist that.
November 12, 2021
Some good news in that COP26 is finally over and all the deluded hypocrites can get get back on their private jets and go home. Let us hope we never hear any more drivel from any of these people ever again.
In my book Jeffrey Cox is exactly the sort of person who should be in parliament – even if he is a lawyer!
November 13, 2021
He is an outlier, one that was known about all along, and looked at askance by his fellow Members, but is now being made out by our dishonest media to be typical.
Imagine if you were living in a lovely part of the country and your MP were appointed Housing Minister. Would he not have a greater conflict of interest than a backbench businessman or lawyer? Hence the by elections on appointment in the bad old days. Besides, he would have much less time to be your social worker. This hue and cry is humbug – as ever. It is intended to affect elections and to bring down the Brexit government. Starmer has just told us he accepts Brexit but that the arrangements will be changed. That means we go back into the SM, the CU, and under the ECJ. The FT, Times, Guardian, Observer,and their broadcasting equivalents are not giving up.
November 12, 2021
Well!
I had no ideaā¦.
š§
November 12, 2021
Sir John, Priti Patel has proved to be useless, yet she still draws her salary and expenses no doubt. See you in court. Boris has let us all down. See you in court. I have just paid Ā£6.50 for a pint of beer on the real economy. how much would it cost for one of the parasites in the house of wind I wonder, in there many bars subsidised blah blah blah.
Do you not remember when the police used to have social clubs. You hypocrites shut them down. The police argued that they needed a place to relax whilst have their lunch. the politicians demanded they be shut down and be more visible to the public. The social clubs are no more. How many subsidised bars and restaurants are in the House of hot air.
Close your subsidised bars, restaurants, stop the expenses, no pension until you are 70 like the rest of us. Then I might take this seriously.
reply I have no idea what a pint costs in Parliament as I do not drink alcohol when at work.
November 12, 2021
Useless pensions are what you get, if you vote for a party which destroys what is often your only means of achieving and retaining decent ones – unions.
It isn’t like that in countries with less supine, know-your-place electorates.
November 12, 2021
Unions?..Blair and Brown wrecked pensions.
November 13, 2021
They didn’t seem to harm mine.
November 13, 2021
NLH, that would suggest that you do not have a “money purchase” scheme where Gordon Brown added tax to dividends thus removing around Ā£5billion each year which would be considerably more nowadays.
November 13, 2021
Your pension is lower than it would have been due to the changes Labour made.
November 13, 2021
MM, my scheme is fully funded and subject to the dividend tax. Gordon Brown as Chancellor introduced that for managed pension funds – whether DC or DB – just as many countries have. It cost an estimated average of less than a hundred pounds per beneficiary per year, to be met by increased employee and employer contributions. In fact it helped many funds, because they changed their composition away from shares, protecting them from the 2008 crash. The Tories have never reversed it, and it would make little difference to pensions if they did. People went into BTL etc. because of shocking annuity rates, and not because of that.
Whatever, if you want to protect your terms and conditions of employment – including a pension – then voting Tory is about the worst thing that you could ever do.
November 13, 2021
No matter how much you carry on NHL, your pension was diminished by the changes Brown and Blair made to pension taxation.
These changes will be hitting young andy far more than it has affected you.
You mention shocking annuity rates.
Have you ever considered why they are so low?
November 14, 2021
My pensions are NOT diminished, because my employers and I all paid slightly increased contributions – if they were even needed at all owing to wise management – to ensure that the contractually-promised benefits were paid.
Why must you continually state matters of fact about which you know literally nothing?
The thing which would really hammer your pension would be to return to the pre-HRA position, where funds were available to courts to be used to defray creditors in bankruptcy, rather than being the property of the beneficiaries.
That is what the Tories appear to want.
November 14, 2021
To come back on that NLH, you mention that there were contractually-promised benefits which again would suggest that it is or was a defined benefit scheme and not a defined contribution scheme. Most employers on a defined contribution scheme would only continue with contributions that were agreed when the employment started.
November 14, 2021
You must have retired many years ago then NLH
Recent retirees in the private sector have seen their pensions diminished.
I note you say contractually promised benefits….try doing that in an SME and the business would struggle or go broke.
But in the public sector or charities quangos and NGOs they can afford to be generous.
Check the articles on the internet from pensions experts NHL, explaining the effect of the changes Brown and Blair made on pensions as the years moved forward.
You seem to be one of the lucky well cushioned older retirees.
November 14, 2021
You should look up article NHL
from This is Money called Has Labour Really Ransacked Our Pensions?
10 April 2010
Have a think on this quote…a 40 year old planning to retire in 25 years … paying Ā£250 pm..will lose over Ā£120,000 on the final value of the pension pot because of these tax relief reforms.
November 13, 2021
A former General Secretary of a very major Union retired last year. It was reported that his final salary was Ā£288k pa, he received a Ā£500k lump sum as a parting gift, plus an Ā£80k long service payment, a car and a Ā£60k annual pension. He obviously knew how to do a great deal for himself.
November 13, 2021
I’m sure all those who paid their union dues were very happy.
November 13, 2021
@SM; Your point being what, if the MEMBERS of the said trade union do not like the rules they can vote to change them, just like with any golf club etc…
November 13, 2021
@BW; Yours was a clear example of a rant built in the fallacy of jealousy.
November 13, 2021
Not at all. Anger is the word I would use.
November 12, 2021
Perhaps if cases of corruption/sleeze/nepotism etc in “high places” were properly investigated and dealt with, there would not be any need for online discussion and gossip.
Too many cases are quietly brushed under the carpet and all too often, politicians seem to get away with crimes that would send ordinary people to prison.
November 13, 2021
@Maylor; Your second paragraph nicely exposed the flaws within the argument made in the first, the only way there will be less online discussion and gossip is if the outcomes to accusations are what the gossipers want, otherwise they just make ever more accusations on top, this time that cases are being “quietly brushed under the carpet”…