My question about the Government’s Schools White Paper

Rt Hon Sir John Redwood MP (Wokingham) (Con): How will the poorly performing schools get the brilliant teachers and better professional development that the Secretary of State rightly wants, because that is what they need?

Nadhim Zahawi, the Secretary of State for Education: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. We endowed the Education Endowment FoundationĀ when the coalition Government came into office, and I have just announced a further endowment for the next 10 years. It has evidenced the qualifications and quality of teacher training that are required, whether in the early careers framework, initial teacher training or later in life in professional development, and we are following that evidence and scaling up half a million teacher training opportunities. That has never been attempted, certainly in my time in Parliament; it is a huge scale-up of teacher training and that is what we will deliver.

 

96 Comments

  1. Everhopeful
    March 31, 2022

    Ask him rather how children will keep warm in schools and what they will eat for their lunch.
    Or is the plan for them to freeze and starve at home in front of an intermittent internet?
    What on earth is the point of an ā€œeducationā€ in a shattered economy?

    1. Roy Grainger
      March 31, 2022

      No-one in the UK will freeze or starve. Get a grip.

      1. Richard II
        March 31, 2022

        Let’s hope you’re right, Roy. In the meantime, this is from the local paper in Sir John’s constituency today: ‘The founder of the Wokingham charity [First Days] says families are no longer turning on heating as the cost of living crisis continues to impact residents.’ I wonder what you know that she doesn’t.

        1. a-tracy
          March 31, 2022

          Richard, Every band C house and below has been allocated Ā£150 council tax rebate to spend on energy – don’t know why Rishi bothered he should have done this in a different way because it never gets discussed.

          Most people in the UK say they turn off the heat come 14th April, according to research done by energy provider npower.4 Mar 2021. 31 Aug 2021 ā€” According to Utility Bidder, most households will turn their thermostat down on Sunday March 14th to save money as the weather warms up

          ‘Although there is no optimum date for switching the heating on, our research would suggest that most UK residents tend to have the heating on more regularly, around October 1st,’ says Andrew.24 Sept 2021

          Governments got six months to work out a solution.

          1. Richard II
            April 1, 2022

            Yes, A-Tracy, in the warmer months, it gets warmer. Let’s hope this isn’t the gist of the government’s energy policy.

      2. Everhopeful
        March 31, 2022

        RG
        Youā€™ve never heard of hypothermia?
        Five stages.
        The fifth being death.

        Itā€™s snowing today.
        People are fearful about their fuel costs.
        The price of secondhand paraffin heaters has doubled since last week.
        People will be stockpiling paraffin.
        Think on.

        1. Fedupsoutherner
          March 31, 2022

          Everhopeful. I totally agree with you. There are people who are literally living on the edge financially now. The real increases haven’t come in yet. I’d like to see how people are managing this winter. That’s when we will see the damage and hardship.

      3. Mickey Taking
        March 31, 2022

        please direct us all to the sunny uplands, any housing available?

      4. No Longer Anonymous
        March 31, 2022

        RG – We are talking 1920s deprivations on the way.

        I new iron curtain has just come down and this time we’re on the wrong side of it.

        Replete with thought police and loonatic ideology. I heard Sharon Davies trying to defend women on R2 this morning. She was accused of being trans aggressive. Jeremy Vine would not answer a direct question on what a woman is.

        1. Nottingham Lad Himself
          April 1, 2022

          Against what or whom was Davies defending presumably simply the dictionary definition of “woman”?

          There is no law to say that the word means anything else.

          People take too much notice of grossly over-represented, shrill but tiny minorities on the internet.

          Still, it gets listeners, as you demonstrate.

          1. Peter2
            April 1, 2022

            She was speaking out in support of elite swimmers who see trans swimmers coming into their sport and taking away their chances to compete fairly.
            She said they are afraid to speak out knowing that the woke protest mobs would attack them and they see no support from their professional body.
            Sharon Davies can afford to speak out as her competition career is over.
            But even she has suffered abuse and a reduction in offers of public appearances and TV and radio work.

          2. Nottingham Lad Himself
            April 1, 2022

            Her position is entirely reasonable and good sense, and all but a tiny percentage – probably even a fraction of one – of the UK’s population would support it.

            Who do you imagine comprises these “mobs” of whom you write?

            Yes, there are a few hundred attention-seeking obsessives who spend all their time on the internet perhaps, and it is pretty dismal of the BBC to follow the Daily Mail and Express in trying to convince the public that these few silly people are a threat to civilisation as we know it.

          3. Peter2
            April 1, 2022

            You may continue to pretend to yourself that cancel culture and wokeness doesn’t exist by trying to claim there are only a few extreme examples but that is not correct.
            It is a growing problem in many areas of employment and sports.
            People have lost their careers or see their chances of being successful in their sport ruined.
            Just because there are, as you claim only a few pushing this agenda, doesn’t mean they have little effect.
            Quite the opposite, their effect is greatly out of proportion.

          4. Nottingham Lad Himself
            April 1, 2022

            As I have said previously, if employers are able to sack people simply for expressing reasonable opinions, then UK Tory employment law gives those employers far too much arbitrary power.

            Yes, some sporting authorities – and it’s entirely down to them and not to any law – have made occasional silly decisions.

            But then it’s only sport anyway, for pity’s sake.

          5. Mickey Taking
            April 1, 2022

            Martin,
            ‘Yes, there are a few hundred attention-seeking obsessives who spend all their time on the internet ‘.
            err…we’ve noticed.

          6. Peter2
            April 1, 2022

            NHlL
            Sport is the only career for many talented people who strive to become the world’s best.
            It is how these individuals earn their living.
            You sneer because you obviously don’t like sport or understand sport.

            Others outside sport cannot sue when their University doesn’t promote them or an author whose publisher declines to publish their book or a celebrity who suddenly finds all TV radio and endorsements stop.

          7. Nottingham Lad Himself
            April 2, 2022

            As I say, employers and prospective employers have too much arbitrary power under Tory employment law, Peter, and you implicitly accept that.

            The rules made by sporting bodies are entirely for them, or do you want laws passed about that too?

            I thought that you were for deregulation and cutting red tape?

        2. MFD
          April 1, 2022

          Remember NLA that anybody with right of centre thinking is sgressive to the far lefties of the BBC. I have not listened to R2 fir years as it is mostly lies and psy-op stories.

    2. Peter
      March 31, 2022

      Teaching used to be regarded as a vocation. That is not so much the case these days.

      Therefore ā€˜Brilliant teachersā€™ might be attracted to better paid jobs in other lines of work, particularly if they are mathematics graduates.

      Parents with only basic education often used to value education for their children more than many of todayā€™s parents. This made them more supportive of teachers.

      Todayā€™s teachers have to cope with constant form filling and oppressive direction from above. Within the profession, better salaries are available to managerial types who oversee all this stuff.

      Abolition of grammar schools was effectively cutting off the bottom rungs of the ladder for many.

      1. Peter
        March 31, 2022

        I regard this ā€˜Endowmentsā€™ statement from Zahawi as so much BS.

        If you have a sound basic syllabus it should not need to change much. Examination boards should have standards that are constant, so grade inflation is not an issue.

        1. Peter
          March 31, 2022

          You also need a method of dealing with disruptive pupils who are now treated more leniently in schools than in previous eras.

          Ship them off to a sink school seems to be the only option. They cannot leave school at 15 nowadays and corporal punishment is long gone.

          1. Mickey Taking
            March 31, 2022

            The main problem with education in the UK is the fact that in the early years and foundation stages youngsters are allowed to stagnate. Qualified teachers and enthusiastic support staff are required to ensure the basics of behaviour, listening, speaking with confidence, reading and writing are delivered. As soon as slow learning is perceived steps need to be taken to bring them up to join others with ability. It is a sad fact that poor learners at these very young years, often with inadequate support at home, continue to stay behind their peers. Eventually they become bored stiff and become disruptive due to no stimulation and face no challenge to improve. Result is attention sought by bad behaviour. It is this objective that will pay dividends as the years of support will eliminate most poor achievers.

  2. Bob Dixon
    March 31, 2022

    Good God!
    A proper answer!

    I predict this minister will go far.
    Look out Boris.
    He is behind you

    1. Lifelogic
      March 31, 2022

      Well he is one of the brighter ministers and has a science degree unlike nearly all other MPs. Though failed to save many lives by vaccination men about 5 years younger than women in the vaccine roll out as was obviously the correct thing to do (given the risk stats) to save most lives. An appalling and very basic error by JCVI and himself.

      My experience with teachers is that most subjects languages, english, history… have reasonable teachers but some (science & esp. Physic and Maths teachers) can be rather or even very poor indeed. Many not even having a degree in the subject they teach and many who must have struggled with their own A levels. You need to inspire children in these subjects and few are inspiring. They surely need to pay rather more for teacher in these subjects. But off course the teaching unions would block this just as they block the removal of poor and useless teachers in general.

      But then who would want to teach now that it is so regulated and controlled? Where teachers forced to teach exaggerated drivel and lies things like climate alarmism, the renewables religion, miraculous human sex changes, other religions and the “net zero” insanity? Teachers nearly all seem to be very or at least rather left wing too – as indeed are university lecturers.

      Also a very female profession now with circa 77% of teachers being women & in primary schools nearly 90%.

      Only about 20% of STEM subject undergraduates at university (even now) are females. It seems most are not very keen on Stem and any decent STEM graduates would probably want A. not to have to teach the above lies to the children & B would probably want or need to earn more than a typical teachers salary.

  3. Everhopeful
    March 31, 2022

    How? How?
    JR reminds me of a tale in which a civil servant boss asked about recruiting certain specialist staff for a project.
    ā€œ The people arenā€™t out thereā€ was the reply from a soon-to-retire expert.
    How can you have ā€œbrillianceā€ from an education system that has been flagging for three decades at least?

    1. Fedupsoutherner
      March 31, 2022

      Everhopeful. Yes and a uni education that’s woke, left wing and PC?

    2. Nottingham Lad Himself
      March 31, 2022

      Maybe brilliant people go to countries where they are better treated and respected than here?

      You know, where people aren’t “fed up of experts”?

      1. Fedupsoutherner
        March 31, 2022

        Nottingham perhaps? They could join you instead of in Cardiff.

        1. Everhopeful
          March 31, 2022

          +100

  4. Lily
    March 31, 2022

    Also ask why teachers in state schools are still having to cope with classes of 30 or more pupils while those in private schools have far fewer to teach. Also ask why private schools are able to claim charitable status by virtue of putting on a few “free” events each year. Perhaps the tax they avoid could help fund more staff in state schools, including teaching assistants whose numbers are being cut because schools can’t afford them but whose support is essential with special needs pupils. Also ask if he knows why so many teachers are leaving the profession.
    I wonder how many Education ministers have ever shadowed a teacher for a couple of days, rather than going on brief photo opportunity visits?

    1. Narrow Shoulders
      March 31, 2022

      The Ā£5K per pupil saving to the government that each private school pupil saves the state more than offsets any tax savings on profits.

      Careful what you wish for

      1. Everhopeful
        March 31, 2022

        +many, many
        Agree 100%
        Politics of envy leave us all much poorer.

    2. Narrow Shoulders
      March 31, 2022

      Each refugee shoehorned into schools despite the class sizes to which you object cost at least Ā£5K per year towards SEN and takes attention and opportunities away from the pupils you pity.

      Put your ire in the right direction not that of private pupils who actually save the state money.

      1. Everhopeful
        March 31, 2022

        ++++++100000

      2. a-tracy
        March 31, 2022

        Narrow Shoulders, wouldn’t you expect a % of Ukrainian teachers to be refugees in relation to the rest coming to the UK? Ukrainian nurses and doctors, dentists etc. It would be interesting to see the skills of people applying to gauge what resources the government has to facilitate this influx.

        1. Cheshire Girl
          April 1, 2022

          A. Tracy: Also, the qualifications of those who are coming across the Channel everyday – whose numbers are no longer being reported.

    3. Nigl
      March 31, 2022

      Once again. When you canā€™t match/beat, dumb down and blame lack of resources.

      We see brilliant state schools I guess with the same resources as the rest. Whatā€™s the difference?

      Leadership as in any organisation. Look a bit closer to home Lily and stop blaming everyone else.

    4. Neil Sutherland
      March 31, 2022

      Perhaps the state should provide some choice for parents by offering money equivalent to tax payer funding for a child’s education if they choose private schooling? Ditto healthcare and council services.

      1. hefner
        March 31, 2022

        Ah the blessed Lifeā€™logicā€™ solutions?
        The present system more or less works for non-state schools because they only deal with about 7% of the total children population. What proof do you have that a private education sector dealing with 50% or 100% of the children population would keep its advantages on the present state sector?

    5. alan jutson
      March 31, 2022

      Lily
      Because the parents who’s children go to private school value education, and are prepared and can afford to pay twice for it.
      They pay once for a state place they do not take up, and then the full fees of the school of their choice.
      Contrary to much belief, not all parents of fee paying schools are rich and spoilt, many just have different priorities, and are prepared to suffer and go without expensive new cars or luxury holidays that other parents choose to take.
      Our own children did not have private education, they went to our local state School, but were encouraged by us to learn, and they could read and write albeit rather untidily, before they even started infant school.

    6. a-tracy
      March 31, 2022

      Lily, class sizes don’t always follow success, the poorest performing primary in my town only had 16 children per class.

      It would be a good idea for people in the Education department working for Zahawi spent a week in the best performing, then a week in the worst-performing school as a teaching assistant.

    7. Fedupsoutherner
      March 31, 2022

      Lily. If a teacher has full control of a classroom then numbers don’t matter. There were 44 in my class in 1966. We all managed.

      1. hefner
        March 31, 2022

        So 56 years ago, when parents (and children) respected teachers, when information was not readily available to most people, when a large fraction of the population were still cap doffers and knew their ā€˜place in the order of thingsā€™, when ā€¦
        Have the world and the UK not changed a tiny bit since then?

        1. Fedupsoutherner
          March 31, 2022

          Hefner. If anything with all those extras available now, yes, it should have changed for the better. I think you’ll find the behaviour of some children has changed for the worst and the attitude of some parents stinks.

      2. Mickey Taking
        March 31, 2022

        as it was in the 1950s Primaries, but lower at Grammar school.

    8. Lifelogic
      March 31, 2022

      Lily the tax payer cannot afford more teachers for lower class sizes. If they increase tax rates further from the current absurdly high rates they will get even less tax not more.

      People going to private schools already pay three times over once for others to go to state schools they are not using, once for the tax on the money they have to earn to pay the large fees and then the huge fees themselves. They are taxed far too much already. We should have a level playing field between state and private – a voucher for every child that can be topped up and nearly all schools should be private and compete for students. If you tax even more you push more on to the state system and then the state systems costs even more.

      I went to state schools and my primary school class up north (about 50 years back) had 44 children, it seemed to work OK to me but then the kids behaved rather better back then.

      1. Fedupsoutherner
        March 31, 2022

        LL. Just what I’ve just replied to Hefner. The attitude of both parents and children needs addressing.

    9. alan jutson
      March 31, 2022

      Lily if you were to shut private schools the education budget and the number of teachers would need to go up to cater for the rise in student numbers from those schools.
      It would be my guess that many teachers in Private schools would sooner give up than teach in state schools, so they would not switch, thus class sizes in State run Schools would be even larger than at present.

      What we really need is for the parents in State schools to have the same commitment to education that Private school families have, and to thus raise the standards in State Schools. That needs a different mindset and probably an increased budget, so even more taxation.

      1. Narrow Shoulders
        April 1, 2022

        What we really need is for the parents in State schools to have the same commitment to education that Private school families have, and to thus raise the standards in State Schools.

        I put myself forward as a parent governor as I could not afford private education for my children.

        We managed to support the head teacher raise the school from needs improvement to outstanding. My children are predicted to get A*, A, A* this year and nine GCSES all above 7* this year.

        * The percentages required to achieve these grades are lower than I would anticipate but they have outperformed their cohort so have earned the grades on a curve.

    10. Mickey Taking
      April 1, 2022

      Education, Science and Technology never feature in Governments’ thinking do they !

  5. Sharon
    March 31, 2022

    One of the big problems in teaching is the politicisation. Teacher training must be non -political and to teach the trainees to keep politics out of the classroom. And that would include all the lefty critical race theory, sexual connotations, green crap agenda and so on. Teach not indoctrinate!

    The response to your question, JR, is an encouraging start.

    1. Everhopeful
      March 31, 2022

      +1

    2. Nottingham Lad Himself
      March 31, 2022

      But simple facts themselves are political, Sharon.

      That is, politicians often want some taught but not others, especially about history.

  6. Michelle
    March 31, 2022

    One of the major problems within many schools is not lack of funding but the destruction over a few decades of the social fabric.
    What is happening in the locality will inevitably find its way into the school.
    Where drugs and excess alcohol, to name just two of the social ills allowed to flourish, are prevalent in an area it is naive to think it won’t have knock on effects. It is why so many parents move heaven and earth to get their children away from certain schools.

    A young family member started her teaching career in a school that served what is termed as a sink estate.
    This was not its former state as she was told by older staff who witnessed the decline and their shift from roles as educators to social workers.
    She has been threatened by drugged up parents, drunken grandparents and pupils messed up by the former.
    Then there are the children blighted by the cruel fostering system.
    All these things do make their way into a classroom and much time is spent and wasted in trying to minimise the disruption to learning.

    Our children’s education should not be hostage to the politics of teachers, unions or anyone in any educational capacity either.

    1. Peter
      March 31, 2022

      Michelle,
      Good point about the decline in social fabric. Generations who have grown up in a world of fecklessness. There have always been bad types around, but they were to some extent kept in check by the disapproval of the communities in which they lived.

      Teachers operating as social workers was not so prevalent in earlier decades.

  7. Dave Andrews
    March 31, 2022

    Johnson blames exporters for their lack of imagination in failing to export. That makes me so mad, when it’s his government that stifles UK industry with excessive taxes and housing costs. The employer’s NI goes up this month and corporation tax next year; foreign companies must be so pleased.
    On the subject of education, what I find is that school children have no horizon of technical careers, so how is the technological industry going to survive with no recruits?
    The focus needs to be taken off the diversity and inclusion religion and put on STEM subjects.
    I see the Welsh government has banned smacking, so don’t expect any discipline from their youngsters.

    1. Fedupsoutherner
      March 31, 2022

      Right Dave.

  8. No Longer Anonymous
    March 31, 2022

    Children don’t need brilliant teachers.

    They need good parents who back adequate teachers up.

    It does not need a lot of money but it does need a lot of will.

    Problem kids must be kept well away from the others. Even a brilliant teacher will fail with these in his class. I know what damage mixing problem kids with others did to my own school education, with teachers from the closed grammar. I had to recover my own education through years of night school and correspondence courses – reaching degree level aged 30.

    1. Dave Andrews
      March 31, 2022

      Agree regarding problem kids. Mix them with the sensitive clever type and bang goes their potential for achievement. My respectable grammar school became a contemptible comprehensive when the secondary moderns were incorporated during my secondary education. The ostensibly disadvantaged secondary modern stream gained no advantage from the change, whereas the grammar school stream were severely damaged.
      Levelling up was decidedly levelling down.

    2. Nottingham Lad Himself
      March 31, 2022

      The election of Tory governments depends upon continued widespread anti-intellectualism – “had enough of experts” – and on general ignorance.

      I wouldn’t hold your breath.

      1. Peter2
        March 31, 2022

        Keep insulting the voters NHL
        It is an attitude the left regularly display for all of us to see.
        Thanks

      2. No Longer Anonymous
        March 31, 2022

        NLH – I do recall the Tories trying to reform the education system but being beaten back by The Blob.

        What I cannot stand is Lefties who use private education for their own children whilst demanding mixed ability classes for others, including SENs and nutters among them.

        I had such a phobia from my own experiences that I became obsessed with my boy’s education and their peer groups – moving to a different area to ensure that they were not exposed to things that I was in the 70s and 80s in Sth London. I went to a school where far more pupils went to prison than university and we had four convicted murderers whilst I was there and more since.

  9. Donna
    March 31, 2022

    If the Education Endowment Foundation has been doing such a marvellous job since 2011 (when the Coalition Government first funded it) how come we have 30% of children who are not meeting the standards for writing and arithmetic at key stage 2?

    I bet those failing children have all been successfully indoctrinated with the Eco Loon Religion and LGBTQXPDAWY blah blah blah Issues.

    1. Timaction
      March 31, 2022

      Indeed. The Tory’s have added every minority issue and put bells on it. Indoctrinating young pupils in their belief and value system, undermining in many cases , sensible and caring parents who should decide the age their children are to be made aware of sexual orientation. etc. BLM and ER have placed the Tory’s in the margins like Labour.

  10. Nigl
    March 31, 2022

    As usual. We get the ā€˜spend more moneyā€™ guarantees improvement from a politician.

    Yes more resources, but poor/negative leadership will render them as inefficient as the rest.

    It needs a drive to improve senior management as well.

  11. Everhopeful
    March 31, 2022

    The government prosecutes and fines or imprisons parents who keep their kids off school.
    How does the government answer for the chaos it has inflicted on education in the past three years?
    And planning more no doubt.

    How are banks allowed to continue functioning when they provide no service whatsoever?
    A physical bank to protect our money should be a basic.
    If a transaction goes wrong there is now no solution.
    Will MPs always be immune to the chaos?

  12. formula57
    March 31, 2022

    Delighted to see reversion to agreed form after the Prentis lapse with “: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. “

    They admit the soundness of your words and then do nothing! What a waste of a government.

  13. DaveM
    March 31, 2022

    Sir John,

    At some point can you please give us a situation report on the progress of the Nationality and Borders Bill? Thank you.

    Reply Returning soon to the Commons to deal with a large number of Lords amendments

    1. Mickey Taking
      March 31, 2022

      reply to reply…..does this indicate pain in the bum Lords, or poorly conceived and drafted Bills?

  14. agricola
    March 31, 2022

    Sounds as if our Education Secretary is trying.

    Try to rid the teacher training system of it’s left wing and cranky political ideas, in fact rid the system of politics all together.

    Encourage cooperation and interactivity between good schools, private or in the public sector to spread success. Encourage lots of physical activity and an understanding of diet.

    1. Nottingham Lad Himself
      April 2, 2022

      Cranky political ideas, like teaching actual facts about UK history rather than a highly-edited, flattering-to-jingoists version, you mean?

  15. alan jutson
    March 31, 2022

    Perhaps it may, just may be a good idea to teach them something useful, practical and relevant to work and survival in todays world.
    A good start would be that at age 11 years all children should be able to read and write well, and should be numerate enough to complete a food shopping task, after planning a list and budget. all without the use of a calculator.
    Good grief at 11 years old I could do all of the above, and read a map, work out distances and heights understood topography, and read a bus and relain timetable, all over 50 years ago, but I failed the 11 plus exam.
    Had a paper round at 13 years old which taught me the discipline of getting up and going to work, also found out you only got a tip at Christmas from most houses if you actually knocked on the door, and actually gave them the paper whilst wishing them a merry Christmas, rather than just pushing the papers through the door.
    Compare to many of todays 11 year olds.
    In my view we have gone backwards with education in the last 50 years.

  16. a-tracy
    March 31, 2022

    Check the qualifications of teachers teaching in the poorest performing schools,
    what % of the teachers, compared to the best performing schools, were teaching assistants without degrees trained on the job, they only need GCSEs for that and they don’t have anything like the depth of training that degree qualified teaching professionals.
    I’m not saying that on the job training isn’t a good idea and the experience is good for all new teachers to assist. I would just be interested to look at the results of that experiment in detail and make sure it isn’t failing pupils in hard to hire schools.

    1. alan jutson
      March 31, 2022

      a-tracy
      Seems to me most of the teachers time is now spent on being a Social Service worker, rather than time spent actually teaching.

      1. Mickey Taking
        April 1, 2022

        and a lot of time reporting on whether child z has improved in all manner of things, and a percentage improvement calculation done. If child z has exceeded a random target they might be now ignored, but if behind the curve they might take over teaching time. In other words teaching time is used up by the slowest, the more able are left to get bored.

  17. turboterrier
    March 31, 2022

    Have got to change the whole system.
    From the first year introduce through play scenarios the life skills they will need and more importantly business and commerce need.
    It is not only about academic capability but also about applied common sense.
    The school itself should be working to and achieving ISO 9000 accreditation. When pupils study within that environment it is a slow drip feed learning process that is around them during the teaching day.
    The need for certain types of study can be reinforced by relating them to whatever part of the ISO process applies. Statistical Process Control, Contract Review, Just in Time, Right First Time, Cost of Non Conformance. to name but a few

    1. agricola
      March 31, 2022

      Tt.
      Didn’t realise ISO 9000 was being applied to education establishments. It has transformed the automotive industry for the good, so if it has I look forward to the results.

    2. Peter
      March 31, 2022

      turboterrier,

      I am assuming your post is sarcastic. I had enough of ISO 9000 bureaucracy at work without wishing it on the poor schools. A complete waste of time.

      1. turboterrier
        March 31, 2022

        Peter

        It’s not a one size fits all, all I can say is working in and with ISO organisations especially those with Self Directed Work Teams always seemed to be leaner and always searching for continual improvement. But some companies used it the wrong way for their own personal agendas and it then was always the system that was wrong.

      2. hefner
        March 31, 2022

        Peter, +1,
        I went through ISO9001. My place of work was already overall much better than ISO9001 criteria/specifications, but did not have the official accreditation and there was ā€˜grumblingā€™ from external partners about our lack of it. So we all had to go through a ridiculous ā€˜managerial-heavyā€™ speech by the leader of the inspection, spent another day with the inspectors asking ā€˜randomly chosenā€™ people about various essentially irrelevant questions given the type of organisation for which I was working at the time, then having to read the resulting report and applying the ā€˜recommendationsā€™. It did not change one single thing in our way of working, the final products and services being produced, whether internally or wrt external partners, but the organisation could say that we were ISO9001-compliant. A full exercise in futility.

        Is the UK Parliament ISO compliant?

        1. Peter
          March 31, 2022

          hefner,

          Yes. We needed ISO 9001 accreditation for government contracts. There was a later requirement for ā€˜greenā€™ accreditation too.

          There was a requirement for extensive paperwork to prove what we were doing and random people were interviewed by ISO inspectors. All this took a considerable amount of effort over many days and involving virtually everyone.

          It was just a time stealer.

        2. alan jutson
          March 31, 2022

          Hefner
          Not had any recent experience, but certainly when it first came out our Company looked at it in some detail, at the time we felt it would be of little use as all it proves is that you have an efficient and accurate, fully traceable paperwork trail, and system in place.
          Many think it’s all about quality of product, and certainly at the time that was simply not the case, because you could be producing the worst product in the world, but as long as your paperwork system could help track and trace it, then you gained accreditation.
          Talking of which, I wonder if the Ā£37 Billion track and trace was compliant ?

  18. Fedupsoutherner
    March 31, 2022

    OT but slightly to do with the standards of pupils behaviour due to lack of interest from.parents. Will the mother, Miss Cononley, of baby P be allowed to become pregnant again once released from prison? If so, why?

    1. Peter
      March 31, 2022

      More like feduptotalitarian I think.

      1. Fedupsoutherner
        March 31, 2022

        Peter. Don’t be ridulous. So you’re another PC idiot who thinks it’s ok for child murderers who have shown themselves for what they are to have more kids to torture and give a life of hell to? There are too many children being brought into the world for all the wrong reasons and then either ending up in care or dead. There are too many dogooders turning a blind eye now.

        1. Peter
          March 31, 2022

          Fedupbusybody,

          If you are seeking idiots, look in the mirror.

    2. turboterrier
      March 31, 2022

      F U S
      Today’s group think may well throw their hands up in horror, but I can see exactly where you are coming from and I like you think questions should be asked.

    3. a-tracy
      March 31, 2022

      FuS she had four children, one of her children spoke out against letting her out a few years back. She has been allowed to contact them and is hoping to rebuild a relationship with them, I hope that they are allowed a say in that.

      1. Fedupsoutherner
        March 31, 2022

        A TRACY. I’m sure they will be but one won’t.

  19. john McDonald
    March 31, 2022

    The unanswered questions.
    1) Does anyone wat to be trained as a teacher these days?
    2) How do the existing Teachers cope with the overpopulation of children to teach. This is not a racist comment but just common sense- will they have to teach in Ukrainian in addition to the other languages they have to deal with from daily new arrivals at schools?
    It’s not the Politicians who have to do the teaching and cope with the increasing school population.

    1. Nottingham Lad Himself
      April 1, 2022

      For the record, English kids in Yorkshire from locally-rooted families have had to be taught English As A Foreign Language because they can barely speak or understand any recognisable form of it, and cannot understand their teachers.

      Those with more than one language generally have no problems whatsoever on the other hand.

      Which is what one would expect.

  20. Denis Cooper
    March 31, 2022

    Off topic, DUP MP Ian Paisley Jr says that the “Conservative and Unionist” party is becoming like an English nationalist party, and surprisingly Labour is better for Northern Ireland:

    https://www.gbnews.uk/news/dups-ian-paisley-jr-says-labour-party-treats-northern-ireland-better-than-tories/261700

    I say that Tory MPs should worry less about the strict parliamentary protocol which seeks to confine their attention to communications from their own constituents and worry more about the NI protocol which is rapidly brewing up a resurgence of communal violence in Northern Ireland, and potentially beyond:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/threat-of-violence-rises-as-loyalists-vent-frustrations-with-protocol-1.4840243

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/03/30/news/loyalists-believed-to-be-responsible-for-belfast-to-dublin-rail-alert-2629586/

    But Liz Truss is in India today, so I expect she will have more important things to think about.

  21. turboterrier
    March 31, 2022

    In the light that it has been reported in the DT about the Ā£36 billion that is being considered to cover our green and pleasant land with solar panels, yet another sacrifice offering on the altar of Net Zero. Cannot help but wonder when all the subsidies and constraint payments that will need to be made, how many state-of-the-art centre of excellance schools could be built in their place across the country for the benefit of the future workforce?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/03/29/england-faces-

  22. turboterrier
    March 31, 2022

    Our education system has got to get on top of the core subjects and the standards for reading, writing, science, and arithmetic have got to improve dramatically. There is no finer example of the need for this to happen in the following online headlines:

    Calculated Destruction: Counting the True Costs of Net-Zero CO2 Emissions Madness.
    Reported on the Stop These Things blog on the 30th of March. Well worth the read

    It would appear that the guesstimates by the CCC are hopelessly out 0f sync with the real world by a magnitude of 4. These are the people (apart from Carrie) pulling the PM and his cabinets strings.
    This and all the other waste in grandiose projects send out all the wrong signals to impressionable children and the teaching staff why bother, it’s not real money if something so important cannot even begin to be properly costed. There is a heck of a lot of politicians who should do the honorable thing, stand up, throw their hand on the table, and walk away, they are in a high stake game where they are completely out of their depth and are drowning and taking the country down with them.

  23. glen cullen
    March 31, 2022

    BBC reporting that Boris has postponed the concreting of the shale fracking gas well-heads for 12 months to allow for further researchā€¦.that should help with my next quarter energy bills

  24. Margaretbj.
    March 31, 2022

    We have all had teachers.Some were well qualified but lacked talent , some simply blamed the pupil for everything not understood and there were a few who were truly good at their job despite qualifications. How do we find these talented.?

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