This week when many of us would have liked more time to debate the cost of living response or to talk to people on doorsteps in the run up to the Council elections MPs have been detained late at Westminster each day to vote down a large number of Lords Amendments to the Borders Bill and a couple of other pieces of legislation. I have no problem with our second chamber wishing to probe, criticise and propose improvements . That is their worthwhile and legitimate constitutional function. There is more to question when they persist in challenging the Commons on matters where there is public will, manifesto commitments and a clear statement of intent by the elected House.
Of course in a free society peers like anyone else are entitled to their views and can use their constitutional rights to the full. They also need to ask themselves if it is wise to constantly disagree with central policies they do not like when they have been put to electors and when they attract large majorities in the Commons. The bishops with a guaranteed 26 unelected seats in Parliament say they intend to oppose the government’s policy to reduce people trafficking and illegal migration when the majority of the public and the majority in the Commons is urging the government on to do more to tackle these abuses and dangers. They highlight this issue when there are so many injustices and abuses worldwide at a time of war in eastern Europe, of starvation and civil war in some African states, and serious human rights abuses in a number of autocracies.
There is no likelihood of Lords reform on a grand scale. Tony Blair looked at it when he had a large majority and strong political support countrywide and decided it was too difficult given the likely opposition of the Lords themselves to reform. This present government would be wrong to divert energies to it when there was no Manifesto proposal and so many other matters more relevant to people’s lives. Maybe it will be possible over time to evolve a better Lords. The current imbalance in membership means it heavily over represents an establishment view that does not favour an independent UK shaping her own policies, preferring a world of global treaties, so called independent bodies and the rule of the technocrats. It could do with a few more people who are entrepreneurial and freedom loving. Maybe it should move to single ten year terms for peers. Maybe retirement should be accelerated, allowing people to keep the title but lose the vote. The Lords is very large and only works because a good number of peers do not seek to engage day by day in its proceedings. It needs  to show a bit more political balance or avoid looking like an establishment stitch up against the popular will.
April 28, 2022
The Lords is a disgrace especially the church contingent.
They are unelected, unwanted and anti British.
The sooner they are gone the better.
I see there’s been a reduction in channel gimmigrants now the prospects of resettlement in Rwanda is possible. Make sure some are sent there to reinforce the policy.
April 28, 2022
Ian
Why would people already in France and close to the UK suddenly not try and come across just because of Rwanda ?
And did you know that the Rwanda deal means that we have agreed to take Rwanda’s refugees ?
Section 16 of the deal đ
April 29, 2022
Why would they not continue to try to come across, you ask ?
Because the government have already announced that anyone arriving in the UK illegally from 1st January 2022 is liable for deportation to Rwanda for processing.
Given that this will probably be the outcome, would you give people traffickers âŹ5,000 or more to try and get you across ?
Thought not !
April 28, 2022
But it is indeed an establishment stitch up against the popular will.
Look at the many appalling, deluded people that Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Labour, the Libdims and even the Greens have stuffed into it.
Then we have lots of largely idiotic lefty unelected Bishops too.
April 28, 2022
So now Rishi Sunak is threatening oil and gas firms with a windfall tax. What a damn tax, borrow and piss down the drain fool he is! Copying Labour – the man is almost as almost pathetic as the Labour are!
April 28, 2022
On your latter point, Nigel Farage puts the reduction down to wind direction/strength. But let’s hope!
April 28, 2022
Like direction, Perfection is a moving target, needing frequent maintenance to stay near-perfect. Unless the Lords use qualities their purpose exists to serve they should lose their position. Too many are appointed of a low standard in the first place. Applying a lower tariff than âlifeâ would be a start in removing the wasters. The standard of the members is often kept low anyway, with even those discredited or ex-convicts remaining in post as if probity didnât matter.
April 28, 2022
All attendees of the House of Lords are unelected and there by appointment and owe patronage to their party.
To be appointed they must be overly successful, to be overly successful they are divorced from most people’s reality.
While the Lords carries out its champagne socialism they are useful to the types who usually complain about “privilege”, seems privilege is OK when it works for you.
April 28, 2022
Sorry to disappoint you Ian, but the recent reduction in dinghies coming from France is due a strong East to North East wind which has been blowing for the last few days. If the high pressure system currently near Scotland slips South the wind will die and we will get another 2 or 3 hundred coming across.
We have had unusually calm weather for the last 2 or 3 months which is why the numbers of crossings are high. ( and we are struggling for electricity!!!!!!!!!!!!) Roll on Rwanda and using our own gas wells.
April 28, 2022
some might have ‘set sail’ but find themselves drifting out towards the Atlantic!
April 28, 2022
Indeed the Lords is stuffed with all the wrong people. If anyone deserved to be elevated it is surely Nigel Farage for getting (of rather nearly getting) a clean Brexit. But they prefer to fill it with lefty, climate alarmist, big government, pushers of green crap & remoaners or purveyors of other religions.
April 28, 2022
Who allowed Clegg to put over a hundred lib dumbs after their election drumming? Cameron. How many Brexit politicians ennobled, none despite 4 million votes. Your political cartel to blame. You had 12 years to change composition, Blaire creatures changes not altered at all. So the blame squarely lies at your partyâs feet. The rest is sound music.
April 28, 2022
Just an update today wind is providing 1.06gw to the grid. This is 2% of demand. When Bozo triples the amount of wind power that will be a massive 6% of demand and how many ÂŁ billions in subsidy will it cost.
The great green con.
April 28, 2022
Please please just start fracking for shale gas
April 28, 2022
Ian Wragg
The point is enforced poverty. You will either be able to drive and heat your home or you won’t.
This is a class war.
April 28, 2022
Doesnât it worry you that the Conservative Party wants to shut down anyone and anything that doesnât agree with it? The Lords, the church, the BBC, universities, peaceful protestersâŠ.
April 28, 2022
Peaceful protesters should not stop me going about my business.
Same with striking
April 28, 2022
âThere is no likelihood of Lords reform on a grand scale. â
Sounds like another excuse for failure. I thought governments were supposed to govern.
That would include fixing any issues that prevent them doing so.
April 29, 2022
80 seat majority
April 28, 2022
The 26 Bishops can have a presence for guidance to the members but no vote. Before they get involved with politics they should devote all their time to the dwindling congregation, addressing it and put their own house in order.
Lower the retirement age and reduce the number of years one can serve as a member albeit retain the title. Start a process of change and slowly reduce the numbers and end up with an elected House.
April 28, 2022
I fully agree on your point about the Bishops putting their own house in order.
The church it seems like so many of our institutions now are all but a mouthpiece for a certain political persuasion.
Perhaps if the church took itself out among its flock and showed itself to be good in deeds it might help clear up the social misery being caused in many places.
Charity should always begin at home.
April 28, 2022
Spot on. 26? Probably more than most of their congregations. I see there will be a couple of legal challenges as well. We are indeed at âwarâ with the left/liberal/elites.
Time for a very loud concerted push back from HMG. A real vote âprotectorâ Itâs management of the news agenda is weak.
April 28, 2022
Nigl – HMG, for what it is worth, does not want to manage the “news” agenda. It openly supports and promotes and encourages the agenda.
Remember, “news” is not what happens, it is what a fairly small group of individuals decide is the “news”.
April 28, 2022
Good suggestions.
Here’s one, only the first 100 members of the HoL to arrive on any day will be allowed to sit and claim their allowance. The rest are told to go away and try to come earlier next time and receive nothing.
April 29, 2022
A bit like trying to get an appointment to see your doctor.
April 28, 2022
Yes, anything which restrains the snarling dog, straining at the leash towards the small child is too much for you, isn’t it?
That said, as Sir John suggests there are considerable improvements which could quite easily be made.
April 28, 2022
You actually think that ridiculous metaphor is an accurate representation of the House of Commons?
Oh come on NHL
April 28, 2022
although at times your penchant for creative writing attempts bring a smile, perhaps you go just a little over the top? 7 out of 10 for visualisation, but only 5 out of 10 for relevance. Must try harder, or maybe not bother.
April 28, 2022
Be bold, implement a fully elected Lords at the next general election, one per county with a five year term
April 28, 2022
All Independant
April 28, 2022
We can all see where Politics is going.
The LibLabCon uni party are all too far to the left to make life affordable. The ONLY option for people to live a life will be a party that is genuinely far to the right.
Living a life trumps the current unaffordable UniParty politics.
April 28, 2022
Good morning.
Yet it was OK for the Commons to challenge and now ignore the will of the people on matters such as leaving the EU and MASS IMMIGRATION.
Where there is a âwillâ there is a way. You can imprison an entire population for the best part of two years, you can easily reform, or my preference replace, the HoL.
I grow tired of hearing the same meek excuses for this antiquated and bastardised tier of government. Reform my hairy backside ! It needs replacing full stop ! But the HoC will never allow an upper chamber to be elected because that would give them real political legitimacy. It would also deprive the political parties a means of rewarding friends and former colleagueâs, especially now the EU route is now closed, another job on the hard pressed tax payer.
The Lords have frustrated a government and deprived our kind host of time better spent trying to save his party at council level. Canât blame him. But his party have been in office for well over a decade and many here have constantly argued for reform of not only the HoL, but electoral boundaries and voter fraud, especially postal voting. All of which it has done little.
You have no one but yourselves to blame, not that you would ever think to do so.
April 28, 2022
I suspect there is no proposal to reform the House of Frauds because it suits the Government very nicely to have an obstructive Chamber of Establishment Placemen/women to blame for blocking policies which they’d really rather not have to deliver but know they have to make at least a half-hearted effort to meet promises they made in order to get elected.
There is no justification for the make-up of the House of Frauds in a country which calls itself a democracy. They are unelected, unaccountable, appointed for life, many under dubious circumstances; cost us a fortune and are in no way representative of the people whose lives they seek to control.
And they won’t restrain themselves. They don’t have to because they know they are untouchable.
April 28, 2022
+ many Donna
Our democracy is under threat anyway, with MP’s and political parties getting elected on false promises, but the HoL has been made a joke by the choice and vast numbers of people our politicians put in there and the way the Lords disrespect the wishes of the electorate. It is as daft and wasteful as the monthly pilgrimage of the EU to Strasbourg.
It is nothing more than a reward system for the yes-men and financiers, but it has such far reaching damaging consequences for our democracy.
April 28, 2022
We don’t live a free society not can we express our views in an open forum and in time online thanks to anti-libertarian laws passed by your party and the filth that faces you each day in the Commons. And all driven to protect the three party status quo and to implement the new CCP inspired collectivist orthodoxy driven by US based and Davos based Marxist attack dogs
Cheers Mr and Mrs Tory party, you’ve only gone and destroyed centuries of civil cultural and political tradition and for what? To taunt those who vote for you? Very sad
The Tories have become facilitators of victim and the deceitful harm culture and have rejected their beliefs and once deeply held principles
Shameful and the Tories know it
April 28, 2022
Here is a recent tragic example of an evil perpetrated through the agency of the Lords.
A Baroness Sugg amendment to the Health and Care Bill passed quickly to the House of Commons where, on 30 March, MPs voted by 215 to 188 to make DIY abortion permanent (after an undertaking when the Covid crisis hit in March 2020, to make DIY abortion a âtemporaryâ emergency measure).
Thus, the Health and Care Bill went from being new legislation to improve the health of a nation to one which suddenly sanctioned a death-by-mail scheme which will put the health of thousands of vulnerable women at grave risk. (See Society for the Protection of Unborn Children website for the horrific details – in my book, a crime against humanity.)
Simply tragic!
April 28, 2022
The UK is ‘supposed’ to be a democracy. Why are so many politicians arrogantly convinced they should defraud or override democracy because they think they know better. They don’t, but the electorate has no way of removing them except for GE’s, and never for the Lords. The majority serve themselves or some other (EU/global?) master, and not the people they are supposed to serve and who pays their ‘wages’.
April 28, 2022
The unelected Bishops in the Lords should preach from the pulpit and nothing more. At least that way if people don’t like what they have to say they can walk out and ignore them. The church has not kept pace with modern life and does not represent the views of the majority. As usual all these do gooders groups tend to work against the best interest of not only the country but it’s people and those people are often the most needy in our society. It’s the poor that suffer the most when overlooked in favour of illegal immigrants. They are the ones being pushed down on the housing list all the time we have to accommodate so many refugees. The church must start looking after our own and they should be out amongst the people working for them. Perhaps then we might not see so many churches given over to development.
April 28, 2022
F U S
Very good post.
April 28, 2022
‘The House of Lords’ An anachronism from a long bygone age. Get rid.
April 28, 2022
Revive the notion of moving the ‘Lords to York and create c.500 more whose views are more in tune with the reality of an independent Britain. Job done. Why are we waiting?
April 28, 2022
There is no prospect of Lords reform because ……….. neither Labour nor Conservative PMs want to lose their power of patronage. And that’s exactly why the Lords needs reform! The biggest disgrace at the moment is seeing politicians rejected by the electorate – such as Barwell and Goldsmith – enobled, so that they can continue politicking at the expense of the public purse. Action in your next party general-election manifesto, please.
April 28, 2022
Lords reform would be difficult and time-and-human-resource consuming. It is also completely unnecessary. I have explained very clearly previously that all the PM needs to do is appoint the 100 most hardline Conservative constituency party chairmen to the Lords and hey presto … problem solved.
April 29, 2022
That would just add to the problem, and the next time Labour is in power they will appoint 150 hardline party members and before you know it we have thousands trying to sit in the Lords.
April 29, 2022
What a pathetic lack of confidence in your own policies. If you believed that your policies were right and popular you would have the self-cofidence and belief that, if you were able to implement those policies, you would win the next election. If you fear a Labour win you are saying that you fear that your policies are rubbish. Mind you, given what this government is doing, you may be right!
April 28, 2022
It clearly isnât working.
How about a private memberâs bill proposing the establishment of a Royal Commission to explore the issue?
I know Commissions are often mocked as an excuse for punting tricky issues into the long grass.
But it will never be the right time for the Commons to champion, it is contentious, it shouldnât really be a party political issue, and it is a constitutional matter.
It would take several years of course.
But the alternative is to do nothing, ever.
April 28, 2022
It was the Conservative MPs who blocked House of Lords reform in the Coalition government.
Chickens coming home to roost, I think.
Reply Not true. There was no way through both Houses that would have worked.
April 29, 2022
The 91 Conservative MPs who voted against a three line whip on the House of Lords Reform Bill 2012 are a matter of public record.
April 28, 2022
There is no doubt that the Lords does not work any more, stuffed as it is with political appointments in return for favours.
It used to work when professional individuals of merit were given a seat and a title, and even the old hereditary system produced a better mix of character, intelligence and some degree of political independence.
Certainly we should make the Lords a Chamber that doesn’t rely on political affiliation, which is why we should never have an elected HoL’s.
Lords should be selected by a truly independent body, because when government gets involved it all ends up with the sort of diabolical mess we have today.
Let’s have a set of criteria to establish the worth of serving lords, and remove those without merit. After that we should start on Parliament and insist on minimum standards of intelligence and effectiveness in life.
April 28, 2022
I agree Bryan
April 29, 2022
Bryan
And who will select the body that will select those elegable for the HoL ? I bet it will be the same people who select the person to run the so called independent Bank of England đ
And to underline you other point, Norman (see above) mentions a Baroness Suggs. I suggest readers go and read her bio. Most interesting, especially from someone able to influence our laws and way of life.
April 29, 2022
In a rational world we’d have people doing the selecting who were not part of the establishment, but it will be a while yet before sanity returns, if it ever does.
In any case if the criteria are defined properly, selection should be a matter of ticking boxes.
April 28, 2022
If the Lords can not be reformed then it can at least be curtailed. Stop making appointments, get Party consensus that there will be no more appointments. The Lords will die off in time and only the Church will remain. Not a good look if it opposed abolition.
April 28, 2022
The problem with the Lords is that it is used by the government to reward it’s cronies and donors and provides a nice retirement income for them in later life, so they do not want it reformed. It’s a closed club that the rest of us have no access to. We need a new political party that has the guts to pledge to reduce the number of Lords and change the way they are appointed.
April 28, 2022
could I insert an adjustment? ‘used by the government to reward itâs FAILED cronies and donors’.
April 28, 2022
In a free society of course peers like anyone else are entitled to their views.
However, this free society for the little man is becoming less and less free isn’t it.
Especially when it comes to opinions that upset the prevailing political correctness.
Unbelievably now in this country people can be slapped with a criminal record and even face imprisonment for a few words that might hurt someone’s feelings.
April 28, 2022
Lords is an anachronism. In the late part of the 20C and clearly in the 21C the house seeks to impose action against the electorate wishes. The institution should be ended, and a small newly designed body of perhaps 30 experienced learned persons of varied background ought to be constructed to serve the purpose of ‘to probe, criticise and propose improvements’.
April 28, 2022
Why are there bishops in the House of Lords? Are not bishops professed disciples of Jesus, who said that his kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36)? Release them from the worldly affairs of earthly government, that they may better devote themselves to their christian duty of shepherding the flock of God.
April 28, 2022
Have a core of voting Lords elected on a proportional basis and let the rest of them attend and speak in debates but not vote.
April 28, 2022
It is claimed our constitution is one that evolves , so perhaps the Lords is in need of some evolution. With Prime Minister’s incapable of restraining themselves and turning the Lords into a dumping ground for party hacks it is in need of reform. I can see the benefit in having people from a wide range of back grounds being able to participate in debates , in fact some of the best speeches I have heard come from them, but I also see the problem of having unelected people having a say in our laws.
Time may be for a hybrid chamber, to have an elected part , people with a different constituency than MP’s , say on a County basis, there are 48 counties in England , call them County Lords , with a rolling election to avoid the party swings in the Commons , only these County Lords should be allowed to vote, but also keep a much slimmed down unelected Lords to participate in the debates, to bring their different experiences and expertise to debates, being able to participate in a debate in Parliament is not something to be sniffed at.
April 28, 2022
The fact that the House of Lords is such a mess is a monument to the difficulty of finding a satisfactory replacement for heredity as a qualification for membership. Blair’s reform was conceived in haste and we are suffering at leisure. Not only are there far too many members, but a prime qualification seems to be sub optimal performance in the appointee’s day job.
The continuation of the ex officio 26 seats for Bishops is a scandal given the level of C of E church attendance. If religion is to have a right to seats, what about all the other ones?
I agree that the Government has many other important things on its hands, but until someone grasps this nettle your time will continue to be wasted by this gang of second liners. Surely it is time the Government at put in hand some process to reach a cross party solution for completing Blair’s half baked muddle?
April 28, 2022
Perhaps with a dwindling congregation there should be a dwindling number of Bishops
April 28, 2022
On twitter, so who knows if it is true or not, just announcing this policy has reduced the boats coming to the UK down to 1 for a week.
These Bishops should be asked what church estates can be used to pursue the policies they want to pursue, one bishop doesn’t need a palace, they could live in a small house and hand their palaces over to the groups they want to bring here.
April 28, 2022
26 Bishops, good grief how many does the Church have in total if 26 of them can be missing from their real calling ?
Let’s face it, the Lords is a busted flush, you outline what it should be doing JR, but that was decades ago, before it was messed about with by Blair and others who followed, time for a reform on the basis that you outline.
You make a striking point about numbers when you say, it only works because many do not bother to turn up !
April 28, 2022
Sir John, you are well aware that by convention, the Lords will not obstruct legislation enacting a specific manifesto commitment. Your party’s manifesto commitments were not so specific and the Lords’ amendments were hardly unreasonable. Why for instance would you not want asylum seekers to have the right to work if their asylum claim has not been decided after 6 months? Why would you vote against an amendment that states that childrens’ best interests are paramount or that rights to family unity are upheld? Why would you specifically not want a commitment that the legislation is compatible with the Refugee Convention? None of these amendments contradicts your broad manifesto commitments and your assertion (without evidence) that the public is against these amendments does not stand scrutiny. All mature democracies have a second chamber to do this job. The Lords may not be ideal but the last thing we want is a second chamber that dutifully passes any legislation the Commons passes its way. It seems to me that despite your words to the contrary, you would rather the Lords become a ceremonial rubber stamping house
April 28, 2022
I think an idea stands or falls on its own merit, regardless of any other factors.
In particular, I much prefer Archbishop Welby’s idea on how to deal with the criminals making huge profits out of people trafficking compared to Priti Patel’s.
Oh. Wait…
April 28, 2022
When it is not necessary to change it is necessary not to change. It is now necessary to change.
This anachronism must be ended and replaced by an elected body.
JF
April 28, 2022
It is wrong and immoral on every count for an unelected body to be able to interfere/stop the work of a government/body that was democratically elected by the citizens of this country.
Perhaps curtailing or stopping their generous expenses would be a start.
April 28, 2022
I wonder what the split in the Lordsâs makeup is as between peers who have made the bulk of their career in the public sector versus the private sector? We hear all sorts of sanctimonious posturing about diversity, but that never extends to diversity of opinion nor the huge over-representation of the 20% or so who work in the public sector.
April 28, 2022
I have no issue with the House of Lords acting as a debating chamber even though it is skewed to the far left in line with our institutions, civil service, quangos and educational establishment. Nor with the fact that this group of people are mainly appointed by politcians.
The problem is that this elitist and unrepresentative group are all allowed to vote.
Voting should be restricted to the same number of people as MPs in the HoC and each party after each GE is allowed to nominate voting peers in numbers proportional to the number of votes they received in the GE.
This would apply to all parties who have candidates in a GE and obtain a minimum vote share of 5% even if they do not actually manage to elect an MP because of our FPTP system of election to the HoC.
The HoL would then be more representative and balanced but without the need for direct elections.
April 28, 2022
When I first read the title of this post I thought it was “The Lords and their allotments”
I don’t care about ANY of our institutions anymore. Not even the Queen. Was that the plan all along ?
April 28, 2022
‘The Lords and their allotments’ should be encouraged, nay, forced to retire to among other worthy pursuits – an allotment!
April 28, 2022
It is reported today that a public health official who is perceived to have done a bad job and given bad advice during the pandemic was given a payoff of nearly ÂŁ400k when his quango got âclosedâ and he lost his ÂŁ200k pa job. Only it wasnât really closed as most of us would understand that word, and the guy is now a senior adviser at the health dept. So taxpayers have given him a nice big payoff and promptly re-hired him. Doubtless thereâs a completely off-market pension to go with it. Itâs always a mystery how it is the state raises record amounts in tax, borrows record amounts, yet provides in so many areas such a terrible or inadequate service. It seems this is the sort of thing our money is being wasted on.
April 28, 2022
There can be no more alienating sight than that of those unelected Champagne socialists of all parties playing at their barricades day after day, affecting superior wisdom and morality, in the great cause of sabotaging the popular will. Let people have a good look at them, and then say to themselves, this is what PR looks like.
April 28, 2022
While the voters can show their democratic wishes to our MPâ s we have no veto over the numbers of Bishops or the Lords, and purely from an economic point of view that is wrong. Their house just gets progressively bigger which costs the public much more to support their club. Even my golf club has a maximum membership and people must wait for a position to become vacant. That and a maximum age limit should be pushed through. As for the Bishops- their cause is getting progressively more insignificant and therefore their numbers must be reduced as the least and my opinion is they should go as politics and religion should not be mixed.
Democracy is struggling these days!
April 28, 2022
Make the payment to the Lords the same as minimum pay and see how many turn up for a nice subsidised lunch, drink and a kip on the red benches. I doubt there are any poor Lords so they can afford to do he job for the same as other basic pay operatives.
At the very least, the bishops should not get any seats as the CofE is no longer relevant and congregations are diminishing to vanishing point.
April 28, 2022
Just a fundamental point if I may.
The purpose of the House Of Lords is not to uphold the popular will.
It is to avert unintended and untoward consequences of the expression of the will of *Parliament*.
Without a formal UK constitution saying otherwise, that would remain the function of any second house, however it were convened.
April 28, 2022
If that really were the case, there would be no political affiliations, just competent people studying the proposals and pointing out the possible errors for correction. As it is, it is is very much political and Prime Ministers stuff the place with their cronies and so we get the place over populated and unrepresentative of any interests but their own personal interests.
April 29, 2022
I wasn’t claiming that it fulfilled that nominal purpose optimally, simply that no second house will ever exist to assert “the will of the people” without major constitutional change in the UK.
April 28, 2022
and the will of Parliament SHOULD be to carry out the bidding of the Electorate expressed via GE !
They cause INTENDED consequences by sending back that bidding.
April 28, 2022
Of course it is not to uphold the popular will, NLH: the Upper House has a specialised occupation, to revise legislation sent up from the Commons, to improve it, and to send it back gain. That is what the hereditaries used to do, with very great conscientiousness and application. They used to sit long and late getting it all right. Not any longer with the Clegg and Blair crowd. They fancy themselves to be HM’s Official Opposition with a stonking majority. They aren’t revising or improving. They are sabotaging Brexit – and anything else they disagree with.
April 29, 2022
+100 Rose
April 29, 2022
Rose-tinted spectacles about the past, I think.
April 29, 2022
perhaps, but you carefully avoid the WHOLE TRUTH about the present…
May 1, 2022
For example, checking (quickly) the transcripts of debates on the parliament.uk website shows that:
– the Environment Bill was at one stage discussed in the HoL on 07/06/2021 between 2:30 pm and 9:35 pm;
– the Nationality and Borders Bill went through debates in the HoL over three days in Decâ21 and that the final meeting to discuss the HoC amendments on 08/03/2022 went from 3:22 pm to 1:57 am.
It is possible for anyone to go the parliament.uk website and look for transcripts of the debates in the HoL. The starting time and end of sessions are there for anyone to check.
To say as rose does that the present crop of Ladies and Lords do not do their job âwith very great consciousness and applicationâ and do not âsit long and late getting it all rightâ is rather an empty smear.
Some members are clearly doing not much, for example The Lord Lebedev, âBaron Lebedev of Hampton in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames and of Siberiaâ, who according to his profile on parliament.uk has since the 19th of November 2020 (when he entered the HoL) been recorded with the following comment:
âThere is no voting record to show for Lord Lebedevâ.
April 28, 2022
“The bishops with a guaranteed 26 unelected seats in Parliament say they intend to oppose the governmentâs policy to reduce people trafficking and illegal migration when the majority of the public and the majority in the Commons is urging the government on to do more to tackle these abuses and dangers.”
A classic politician’s approach of conflating two different things. The Bishops are opposing a specific policy – the Rwanda one – which does not have the support of the majority of the public. In the surveys I have seen, more of the public are opposed to the Rwanda policy than support it.
Reminds me of the politicians’ fallacy from Yes Minister: “We must do something. This is something. Therefore we must do this.”
April 28, 2022
PP, Thanks for showing how politicians (well, one particular one here) are used to dissemble. I am afraid this type of exercise that could be done on most daily servings is not going to be popular with Sir John.
April 29, 2022
Hefner, indeed. I am one of those who would urge the government to do more and I am completely opposed to the Rwanda policy which, if the now abandoned Australian experience is anything to go by will be nothing more than an expensive failure and PR stunt, meanwhile the traffickers simply change their business model again, as they did from lorries to small boats.
The Home Office’s own figures show that the vast majority of those crossing on the boats are genuine asylum seekers whose claims are upheld. However, they are not able to make that asylum claim until they actually arrive on UK soil. So, one possible solution the UK government could bring in is allow them to make their claim before arriving on UK soil, for example, at any UK embassy or consulate worldwide. Then provide safe and legal routes for all successful claimants.
April 28, 2022
It would appear that the arch bishop of Canterbury and his fellow bishops have largely given up on the main task for the C of E and are trying to convert it to a political party or are they grabbing the opportunity of one job and two paymasters? The Church and the tax payer for attendance at the H of L?
April 28, 2022
Sir JR
Interesting perspective and changes are necessary.
However saying people who prefer international treaties and agreements are not freedom loving is much over the top. And it’s strongly related to your anti EU point of view.
April 28, 2022
And it is strongly related to your pro EU point of view Bill
April 29, 2022
Peter 2
When you do contribute make sure it is worth while reading. I was talking about how to not categorize people but you missed it again.
April 29, 2022
Well not only did you read it bill but you were driven to responding.
I was making the point that your profoundly pro EU stance blinds you in everything you write to see the real argument.
But you missed it again.
April 28, 2022
I acknowlege that there are some very good peers, improving Commons legislation in an unpartisan manner. Due to the totally corrupt feeding of the Lords with political placemen/ women by prime ministers past, it is a blot on democracy. If the USA can survive with 100 Senators, what are we doing with I believe over 800. Our Lords should comprise 100 people of proven talent on a five year contract, selected by a board of the great and the good. No political affiliations should be asked of them. In fact those that have in the past displayed political tendencies should be avoided. Said thinking of the present Archbishop of Canterbury. Were they elected they would become reduced to yet another political talking shop. With over 80 years of life experience I would suggest that it is impossible to be 100% party political loyal. Parties shift like sand bars but rarely in harmony with all who sail in them. The merits of legislation fed from the Commons should be the subject of their judgement, not the vagueries of political fashion. Is it for the greater good and will it work.
April 28, 2022
“stitch up against the popular will” – what percentage of the people voted Conservative at last General Election? Less than 50%. Your party benefits greatly from the present electoral system, I wouldn’t complain too much. A majority in the commons can also use the parliament act to override the Lords.
The Lords may be an inconvenience when in government, doubtless less so when in opposition.
April 28, 2022
I understand there are some members who ‘sign on’ to get the daily expense payment and then leave without any attendance. Let’s make a start by ruling that anyone who does that is suspended for 6 months. If repeated they lose the vote and are banned from attendance.
To add to this if a Lord does not attend in say six months they are suspended for a year. If they don’t attend in the six months following their suspension the same application is applied.
It would be interesting to see the effect of these rules on attendance. But schemes should not be abandoned because they throw up surprises.
Something must be done. It’s no good arguing as many do that the whole problem is too difficult and thus nothing is possible.
And if rules can be introduced because a vote is needed it proves the system is corrupt and thus revolution is justified.
April 28, 2022
Pootin is easily the most dangerous threat to the UK since WW2.
We’ve been asleep, focusing on and wasting money on dumb wars like Afghanistan and Iraq (where Hans Blix warned he hadn’t been given time to discover WMD or not) whilst Putin building up his hypersonic missiles and other weapons of mass destruction.
Our number 1 priority should have been to try and build a laser defence system against hypersonic missiles and others (Israel has begun to work on one which can shoot down drones and some missiles). Spending our time and money on that. Money that could have contributed to our economy as well. As well as joining our efforts with others in our geographical area to create this defensive technology. Possible. But sure, challenging.
Please God we get through this Pootin situation, safely. But then get on with a proper defence system. Not forgetting all the other stooges lying in the background behind Pootin in Russia. As well as stooges in China, Iran, North Korea, Terrorists and whatever other nutcases the world throws up.
This is a wake-up call. Must act as soon as we can.
April 28, 2022
I don’t think I’m a religious nutter. I’m a Capitalist, Tory and Monarchist. I love the good things in life and having a laugh. But I sure am concerned by Russia. If anyone is the praying type, please pray to stop Russia doing anything dangerous and for this war to end as soon as possible. Prayer is powerful. Thanks.
April 29, 2022
OK – not a RELIGIOUS nutter, but pretty guilty on the other 3 counts – send him down!
April 28, 2022
This has gone on for many years. The Lords is not fit for purpose but I believe it suits whoever the governing party is, to blame the Lords.
Abolish the Lords and let us have an elected house of no more than 100 members, elected every five years. The obvious thing wrong with this idea is that it will not be in the gift of the PM to promote his cronies, or family!
April 28, 2022
The other thing wrong with it is that you don’t say which House should back down in a conflict when they are both elected.
April 29, 2022
Interesting, in most countries with a bicameral Parliament where both Senators and Representatives are elected, usually based on different constituencies, and/or different length of stay in the legislature, and/or based on different voting systems, ⊠it does not seem to be a problem, as their constitutions clearly define the functioning and the likely interactions between the two chambers (see USAâs House of Representatives and Senate, Spainâs diputados & senadores, Franceâs Parlement & SĂ©nat, Germanyâs Bundestag & Bundesrat, NLâs Senaat & Tweede Kamer, âŠ).
Why do you think it is such a problem in the UK?
April 28, 2022
Vote Reform and get rid of the House of Cronies.
April 28, 2022
Also, you can’t negotiate with Putin. He’s a serious psychopath – like Stalin, Hitler and the rest.
All we can ultimately do is pray and build the Laser Star Wars Defence System as quick as possible. Israel has already started, able to shoot down drones and small missiles. If we (USA) could send man to the in 1969 (and we are the nation that gave Sir Isaac Newton and Cambridge to the world), I think we should be able to create this kind of technology (and also stimulating the economy – although we have no choice, we have to build this technology) to turn the UK into a fortress and therefore not just protecting us but also giving us more leverage over countries with deadly weapons (and the weapons will only get more deadly and sophisticated as time passes, easier to get hold of and more prolific).
April 28, 2022
Your first sentence is key.
To negotiate there have to exist at least some agreed principles. With Putin it appears that there are none. There is a social dimension to morality, and he does not appear to function in any recognisably normal social manner at all.
It is hard to conceive of a more serious situation facing the world.
The best minds on the planet are no doubt completely engaged with the implications of this as we write.
We wish them every strength.
April 29, 2022
Well said.
I for one am praying (even one of my good buddies, where I live, who normally says he’s an agnostic / atheist, is praying. When Field Marshal Alanbrooke heard the Nazis bombers humming over London, he got down on his knees and prayed. St Joan of Arc prayed and was given great victory over the enemy. Prayer is the most powerful tool we have in situations like this. Although practical effort is also essential too. Not either / or – both).
April 29, 2022
I think I’m correct in saying London got a pretty awful bombing? And poor Joan got rewarded for her tragic naivety! Praying didn’t quite deliver the result you try to suggest!
April 29, 2022
Hold on – heroism isn’t about putting one’s life before others!
Joan of Arc sacrificed her life for France. She could have been killed in the battle field before her eventual death but didn’t. Don’t forget who she was:
An 18 year-old peasant girl who led an army that defeated an enemy that they had been at war with for over 100 years! That is extraordinary. And like many heroes, she lost her life (one of the definitions of a brave warrior is that you might lose your life in the process).
Regarding WW2, it was remarkable that things didn’t turn out worse for us. The Nazis had superior air power and the UK was for the taking. What is remarkable is the relative success we had against the Germans. And, again, the warrior spirit isn’t that you don’t take a hit. But that you overcome your fear to fight an enemy for the common good. And in the case of WW2, it paid off (although I think the victory of Joan of Arc more extraordinary and if you’re a believer than you believe she’s in Heaven now – the ultimate success for a Christian believing woman like her).
April 28, 2022
Seriously? The Bolsheviks would have had no trouble getting rid of them. Let them oppose! Who cares. Force reform on them. As for âthe titleâ, theyâll wait a long time before I call anyone âLord this it thatâ.
April 28, 2022
Does the Tory Party claim a ‘popular mandate’ for continuing to import about net three hundred thousand mainly South Asians and Africans every year? Does the Tory Party have a ‘popular mandate’ for Net Zero by 2030 or whatever? Does the Tory Party have a mandate for starting WWIII? Does the Tory Party have a ‘popular mandate’ at all in an electoral system in which currently two thirds of those who bother to vote have no effect on the outcome of a general election?
The British constitution brings in mind the Irish joke of a local advising a lost traveller not to start from where he currently was. There is very little right about it. The Chinese system might be less democratic but who can tell? The majority of votes do not count which deters people from voting for parties with policies with more potential support than those pursued by the liblabcon in parliament, often ignoring their manifestos, because they think their vote will be wasted; thus we have established parties which can be bought and owned by people with an agenda inimical to the interests of the English people whatever their orientation on the left/right spectrum; those with political ambition overwhelmingly simply deciding which of the three to join.
The House of Lords is an indefensible anachronism whether it contains Bishops or not; whether we should ideally have a unicameral or bicameral system is a matter for debate but if the latter than that chamber must have democratic legitimacy; furthermore it might not be sensible to have a total overlap in the chambers’ areas of responsibility otherwise the second chamber will simply fill with jobsworths worse than we have now. Any constitutional changes should be legitimised by referenda as they had in New Zealand for their change in the voting system to get rid of the inherited, deeply unfair, FPTP system. Whatever happens, the CofE Bishops and other religious leaders should have no place in a secular legislative institution; furthermore, the CofE should be disestablished because that is a fairly simple constitutional change to rectify an anomaly introduced by Henry VIII.
JR would know whether the quality of his colleagues is on the whole diminishing but the impression of the casual observer to their antics is not reassuring quite apart from whether they understand the modern world of science or not.
April 28, 2022
Iâm sick to death of unelected Lords and Ladies lording it over us, bin the lot of them.
April 29, 2022
I don’t think the equivalent in France or anywhere else is much better. To be frank, it’s a bit of a none issue / red herring compared to:
1) How to deal with Putin
2) How to build up adequate defence against hypersonic missiles
3) How to help build up our high tech / digital economy
4) And then all the cultural / social dysfunctionality in our country that negatively impacts on the Economy, Productivity, Exports, Patriotism, Family Life, Mental Health, Physical Health etc – and the ENORMOUS cost to the tax-payer (and general happiness of nation in general) etc .. Conservatism does have a role to play here. Through politics. But also through Church, Arts, Media, Education – we need to spread the net of Conservatism to cover much more than just politics / economic policy – important as these are.
Actually, if anything the set-up of the Lords is a quaint distraction from the really serious things going on (or not going on and should do).
April 28, 2022
Would you take a seat there if it were offered ?
Reply Of course not, I am an MP and wish to stay in the Commons to carry out my promises to electors.
April 29, 2022
reply to reply….admirable and you are likely to survive the Tory wasteland, and Wokingham’s changing democratic picture. However I imagine it will be lonely on the opposite benches and having even less say in what Government of the day do!
April 28, 2022
Why not just abolish them as well as the BBC?
Any scrutiny of bills should be done by working groups on a cross-party basis. They could propose , amend and vote within the group before passing it to the main HOC to vote it through.
A body of non-voting volunteers could be used to facilitate amendments at the direction of the working groups.
The whole process should be sped up. The HOC are paid like professionals they should work like them.
April 29, 2022
No, the Law Lords for instance consider very carefully how a new law would sit in relation to the entire body of existing law – which requires extremely extensive knowledge of it – in order to avoid clashes, the creation of ambiguities, and so on.
However, there are too many in the Lords who are not there because of expertise but because they are politically reliable party stooges when it comes to voting.
Nonetheless the body of expertise, of experience, and of knowledge there is very considerable and of enormous value.
The challenge is to keep the good while losing the bad.
April 29, 2022
*The Law Lords are now generally retired Supreme Court judges and do not exercise any longer a judicial function in the House.
April 29, 2022
I feel sure that you would be willing to decide for us?
April 29, 2022
In principle there is nothing wrong with the concept of an appointed second chamber to advise on and revise legislation formulated and drafted by the people’s elected representatives in the Commons. The problem has arisen because the wrong people who have little to offer have been appointed to the Upper House and there is no way they can be removed when either they disgrace themselves (which unfortunately is becoming increasingly common) or outlive whatever usefulness they might have once had. An overhaul of the rules is urgently required and better selection and appointment procedures need to be approved.