My Question to the Chancellor about the difference in taxes taken in 2022 compared with the last Budget forecasts

Treasury has provided the following answer to your written parliamentary question (11536):

Question:
To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, what recent estimate he has made of the difference in tax taken from (a) VAT on fuel, (b) North Sea oil production and profits taxes and (c) all taxes on petrol and diesel sales in 2022 compared with the last Budget forecasts. (11536)

Tabled on: 01 June 2022

Answer:
Helen Whately:

Forecasts for Government tax revenues are provided by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR).

Their most recent published forecast, provided for Spring Statement 2022 on 23 March, is available on the OBR website at the following link https://obr.uk/efo/economic-and-fiscal-outlook-march-2022/.

For the financial year 2022-23, Value Added Tax is forecast to be ÂŁ154.2bn; UK oil and gas revenues are forecast to be ÂŁ7.8bn; and fuel duty revenues are forecast to be ÂŁ26.2bn. An updated forecast will be published by the OBR at the next Fiscal Event.

HM Revenue and Customs publishes monthly tax receipts statistics, including for UK oil and gas production, VAT, and fuel duties, on a cash receipts basis, at GOV.UK at the following link https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hmrc-tax-and-nics-receipts-for-the-uk.

The answer was submitted on 13 Jun 2022 at 13:40.

 

JR Reply VAT on domestic fuel must be delivering considerably more VAT now the typical bill has gone up by 50%. VAT on petrol and diesel must also be substantially up  on forecast now pump prices are in the 180s and 190s.

74 Comments

  1. Javelin
    June 16, 2022

    We are learning that the rule of “go woke go broke” is scalable from a small shop to the whole economy.

    Trying to eliminate carbon energy pushes petrol and fertiliser prices through the roof, causes inflation. Shutting down the economy to save “every life” because of a virus causes immunity failure, untreated cancers, furlough money printing and massive inflation. Uncontrolled mass immigration causes housing price inflation and homes to become unaffordable and crime hotspots.

    The reason it is scalable is because to “go woke” is a plan straight out of the command economy. It is Soviet style planning that replaces the markets with dream-think.

    1. SM
      June 16, 2022

      The only amendment I would make to your admirable post, Javelin, is to change the penultimate word to ‘nightmare’.

    2. glen cullen
      June 16, 2022

      Not just ‘woke’ its net-zero – energy prices up, inflaction up, cost of living up, interest rates up….all due to the policies of net-zero

      1. glen cullen
        June 16, 2022

        also stock market tanking

    3. Lifelogic
      June 16, 2022

      Indeed and all entirely predictable- yet Socialist Boris and Sunak still pushing this appalling agenda.

    4. Lifelogic
      June 16, 2022

      Indeed.

      Allister Heath today is spot on rather depressing alas:- “Britain is in ruins thanks to the failed dogmas of our permanent Leftist elite. Tony Blair was devastated by the referendum, but he is having the last laugh. We’ve ended up with a technical Brexit in which Britain is subservient to a permanent Left-wing, politico-managerial class. Many Tory MPs might as well be Labour MPs, and vice versa. Nothing has changed: Whitehall Blairites seized the power relinquished by the social democrats of Brussels.”

      Tony Blair has had the last laugh. The European Court fiasco shows who really rules in the UK

  2. Nigl
    June 16, 2022

    I guess the Treasury is giving the minimum of information because any more would confirm the points you seek to make.

    In other news Boris has lost another ethics minister, two honourable men going because the man they report to isn’t. No doubt my MP Leo Docherty, one of his closest supporters and the rest relying on him for their jobs will turn yet another blind eye.

    1. Mark B
      June 16, 2022

      It is a non-job.

    2. MFD
      June 16, 2022

      NIGL ,
      Are we witnessing the rise of a dictatorship as Johnson seems to but following his own policy despite all criticism of his cowardly way.
      Will we ever by allowed to vote again?

  3. Berkshire Alan
    June 16, 2022

    This outlines the real problem with Governments of today, a very, very simple question, replied to in the most complicated and long winded way possible, and which is not actually an answer at all.
    It seems to me that everything the Government does, discusses or proposes, is now so convoluted and complicated, that it ends up being completely useless.
    We could stop people entering the country when we demanded test certification, but that did not include illegals.
    Tax take has risen by 21% in a year, but we still have tax rises because VAT take is inflation proof, but tax allowances are not.

  4. Everhopeful
    June 16, 2022

    Well JR
that’s you told.
    I hope that in future you will consult the internet rather than a fellow MP and Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury ( who one would be forgiven for imagining might know a bit about Budget divination etc.)
    Rude doesn’t come into it.

    1. Mark B
      June 16, 2022

      But it underlines what we have been saying here when it comes to these QUANGOS and Minister responsibility – “Not me guv’ !”

      1. Everhopeful
        June 16, 2022

        +100
        It certainly does!!
        Meanwhile countless numbers still rampage up our beaches.

  5. Everhopeful
    June 16, 2022

    How weird.
    On first reading the “answer” a previous experience came to mind.
    When working I visited a once-marvellous Care Home which had been “new broomed”, “regime changed”.
    Desks and filing cabinets and folders gone from office, coffee machine and pot pourri installed
all documents piled on floor.
    The sight of the “Manager” scrabbling on the floor amongst the financial records, not knowing which resident was dead and which still alive was something to behold.
    Then I looked up the bio of the MP in question.

    It ended badly for the Home. Chaos,sackings, prosecution and finally demolition.

  6. Bloke
    June 16, 2022

    The Question was about the DIFFERENCE.
    Helen Whately’s response was a reply; not a proper direct answer.

    Her reaction was rather like that of a trainee Customer Services contact at a call centre, using the fall-back script of ‘Have you seen our website?’

    Does she think a ‘direct’ answer should direct the enquirer to search somewhere else?

  7. Narrow Shoulders
    June 16, 2022

    I reforecast monthly because I have to know (and I care) – just sayin’

  8. No Longer Anonymous
    June 16, 2022

    The Government could easily ease the cost-of-living crisis by cutting tax but won’t.

    This is a socialist Government. The most socialist we have ever had.

    It beggars belief that any real Tory in the Conservative Party remains in the Conservative Party.

    1. The Prangwizard
      June 16, 2022

      There are no true Conservatives in the Tory party. They have all moved in the direction of the party, some a little slower, pretending to dispute where it’s going. But they all stay and put it first, attempting to fool all of us that they are different.

      If they were true believers in freedom they would have left it.

    2. glen cullen
      June 16, 2022

      You either have a socialist government or a capitalist government
we have a socialist government with social engineering & control at its core

  9. Michelle
    June 16, 2022

    Well it’s one thing to talk about how the money is raked in (and I think most of us know only too well how that goes) it’s another to get to the nitty gritty of how it’s spent!!!

  10. Ian Wragg
    June 16, 2022

    He won’t reduce fuel duty because he needs to cover the shortfall from zero tax on useless EVs.
    It’s time these polluting vehicles were taxes according to their weight to cover for the tyre pollution they cause.

    1. glen cullen
      June 16, 2022

      Agree – just reset the car tax at a standard ÂŁ100 per car no matter its cc or ev or ice…..its equal and fair

  11. Bill B.
    June 16, 2022

    In other words: we’re not gonna tell you what the forecast was, it’s online, look it up for yourself. Not very helpful.

    But like that, of course, the public don’t get to know what the difference was, i.e. the whole point of SJR’s question.

  12. Lifelogic
    June 16, 2022

    Helen Whately and Sunak bother read PPE after good private schools. Never a good sign. Why can they not just not just answer simple questions honestly and clearly. What is the point of questions if they do not bother to answer? Just lots of people wasting lots of time and wasting lots of our money.

    Tax borrow and piss down the drain continues. So now it seems if I rent out my property it can be wrecked by numerous cats, snakes, dogs
 whether I like it or not. Then I will have to give a prove a “reason” to evict them. Then we have second homes banned in Whitby. All profoundly socialist and unconservative policies from this socialist government. Appalling attacks on private property to deter lettings and kill the marked will not even benefit tenants in the end.

    1. Dave Andrews
      June 16, 2022

      Don’t worry about your rental property. So many people will sell theirs you will have the pick of renters.

    2. Know-Dice
      June 16, 2022

      And illegal immigrants are complaining that they are being treated like criminals… Could be because they are.

      1. MFD
        June 16, 2022

        Boom !!Know-dice, bullseye!

  13. BW
    June 16, 2022

    Can’t we have a windfall tax on Human rights lawyers as they must be swimming in taxpayer money (sarc)

    1. Lifelogic
      June 16, 2022

      Just kill tax relief all the very many dubious charities and legal aid for these types of lawyers.

      1. Mark B
        June 17, 2022

        Exactly !

        We also need to bring in a law that prevents so called charities being charities if they get more than 10% of their income from government and especially foreign governments.

  14. glen cullen
    June 16, 2022

    The Sheriff of Nottingham would be impressed

    1. Mickey Taking
      June 16, 2022

      DWP doesn’t resemble Robin Hood, does it ! But lots of ‘friends’ of Cabinet are getting fat, like Friar Tuck.

  15. turboterrier
    June 16, 2022

    We keep hearing from these treasury people about taxes and incomes but never about how much money is wasted.
    It won’t be Net Zero and all the other crap Boris goes on about that will bring this country to its knee’s. It will be the addressing of simple things like:
    Waste of taxpayers money
    Pollution of air, land and sea
    Immigration
    Security of food supplies
    Security of energy production/distribution
    The path we have been forced onto is totally unsustainable

    1. glen cullen
      June 16, 2022

      Agree

  16. Donna
    June 16, 2022

    And another non-answer “answer” from a Minister to a senior backbench MP. I’m really surprised Government Ministers haven’t created a logo of the Agincourt Salute to append to their evasive responses. It would demonstrate nicely the contempt they have for MPs who dare to ask impertinent questions.

    Allister Heath in today’s Daily Telegraph is compulsory reading. He starts “Who governs Britain? It certainly isn’t Boris Johnson” and correctly identifies that Blair created a permanent left-wing Establishment which is effectively over-ruling a pathetically weak CON Government. He continues “Tony Blair was devastated by the referendum, but he is having the last laugh. We’ve ended up with a technical Brexit in which Britain is subservient to a permanent Left-wing, politico-managerial class. Many Tory MPs might as well be Labour MPs, and vice versa. Nothing has changed: Whitehall Blairites seized the power relinquished by Brussels’ social-democrats.”

    Well he hit the nail right on the head there. And Johnson is either too frit, too lazy and too disorganised to do anything about. Or he doesn’t want to.

    1. Mickey Taking
      June 16, 2022

      It is said the Queen decided to give Blair a Knighthood…age sadly not on her side.

      1. rose
        June 16, 2022

        Not until after the Duke of Edinburgh had died. Blair had a long wait, with other PMs backing up behind him.

    2. Lifelogic
      June 16, 2022

      Indeed.

      Alister Heath is always worth reading alas no one in government seem to take any notice of his wise words!

    3. Sharon
      June 16, 2022

      I read Alastair Heath’s gem too.

      It’s been obvious for a while that most of todays problems can be tracked back to Blair’s time as PM
. and he’s still meddling in the back ground! Awful man!

  17. Denis Cooper
    June 16, 2022

    Off topic, I’ve sent a letter to the Times as follows:

    “Thank you for your headline “Johnson’s Northern Ireland bill is illegal, warns EU negotiator”.

    If I had developed any doubts about my decision to vote to leave the EU then they would be dispelled by current events, including such arrogant assertions by an unelected Brussels bureaucrat.

    Our national Parliament is sovereign, and therefore by definition none of its Acts can ever be condemned as illegal.

    Unwise, maybe, or unjust, possibly, but never illegal; and if any of its members think otherwise then they are not fit to be part of it.

    And, thinking back half a century, were we not assured by the then Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath that our essential sovereignty would not be affected if we signed up to the European federal project?”

    1. Jason
      June 16, 2022

      Unelected the EU negotiator may be but he has been appointed by the EU Commission
      on behalf of the heads of state of 27 countries with the approval and vote of the EU Parliament – all elected – a bit like the American system where the President is elected and appoints the Administration.

      When the United Kingdom itself was founded it wasn’t ratified by people’s referendum – and now looking back we can see there are plenty of examples throughout history where we acted illegally like in China, Africa, India, Ireland etc- need I go on.

      1. Denis Cooper
        June 17, 2022

        Parliament is the supreme legal authority for the UK, and by definition none of its Acts can be illegal.

  18. Lifelogic
    June 16, 2022

    We desperately need a bonfire of red tape so what do we get but loads more of it, this time it in relation to tenancy agreements and effectively theft of private property values. It will benefit few but parasitic lawyers and cost both landlord and tenants in extra time, court costs, money, agents extra fees, loss of rents and delays
 profoundly misguided as usual from Socialist fools Boris, Sunak and housing minister Andrew Stewart


    1. rose
      June 16, 2022

      It looks, LL, as if we are going back to the dark days of the sixties when, thanks to rent controls and over regulation of tenancies, including granting full security of tenure for unfurnished lets, landlords and ladies almost became extinct – except for the Rachmans. We need the rented sector, so there needs to be something in it for landlords and ladies. It is more flexible than the old council housing of yore, which kept tenants immobile as serfs, and in a state of social apartheid, yet that is what they seem to want to go back to.

  19. Nottingham Lad Himself
    June 16, 2022

    Well, we need revenues to make up for the countless billions that the Government has thrown away on “consultants” and on various abysmally poor value contracts, don’t we?

    1. Mickey Taking
      June 16, 2022

      and to finance the State ‘maundy money’ freely given to all abroad.

    2. hefner
      June 16, 2022

      I read this morning that with the recent Government’s efforts towards reintroducing imperial units the Office for Product Safety and Standards (certainly full of ‘lefty socialists’ 😇) is relinquishing the certification of commercial weighing and measuring instruments. It suggests its potential customers three alternative providers, the BSI (British Standards Institution), the SGS UK the subsidiary of a group (Societe Generale de Surveillance) quoted on the Swiss Stock Exchange, NMi Certin UK the subsidiary of a Dutch group (Nederlands Metrologisch Instituut) based in Delft, Zuid-Holland, the last two advertising their EU and international credentials.

      That was not among the nine Brexit opportunities recently advertised by JR-M.

      1. Peter2
        June 16, 2022

        Those are just 3 of many certification bodies and companies who can calibrate and certificate weighing and measuring machines.

  20. Everhopeful
    June 16, 2022

    More govt. madness.
    Presumably Gove is trying to destroy the rental sector?
    (And the lives of long suffering neighbours).
    I feel for those people who innocently thought they could replace their ( stolen) pension with a modest rental.

  21. ChrisS
    June 16, 2022

    A typical weasel answer to your sensible question.

    Of course, they know exactly how much extra revenue they have received and expect. It’s just hiding behind the OBR to avoid telling us just how much more they are receiving in tax because the answer will certainly tell us that they have received more additional revenue than they are to receive from the NI tax rise, proving it could have been cancelled.

    Now we have an equally unnecessary increase in interest rates from the Bank of England. As if the increase in fuel and other extra costs is not taking enough money out of the economy, the Bank is determined to put household budgets under even more strain.

    Another utterly pointless and damaging action.

    1. Mark B
      June 16, 2022

      Watch as the economy stalls. But as always, it is someone else’s fault.

    2. Mark
      June 16, 2022

      Unfortunately it is looking like the interest rate increase was insufficient. The pound has fallen because the dollar is offering a higher interest rate, and so our import costs are being pushed up, adding to inflation. Real interest rates are now strongly negative for mortgage borrowing, even if those who borrowed large sums are now finding cashflow constraints.

  22. Ed M
    June 16, 2022

    As The Culture / Civilisation of The Western World crumbles, China is leaping ahead (it’s now supporting Pootin’s war more outwardly). China’s success isn’t just down to a desire to go from a relatively lowish standard of living to a leading one, a strong (albeit flawed, Communist) leadership but also a country still rooted to its cultural heritage of Confucianism and Taoism.

    We need to return to our cultural heritage: our Judaeo-Christian and the best of our Greco-Roman heritage if we are to have a hope of stalling The Decline of the Western World and a decline that will only get worse and worse as China emerges stronger and stronger – all 1.5 billion of them.

    1. Philip P.
      June 16, 2022

      On the contrary, China is now losing its competitive advantage thanks to the whack-a-mole Zero Covid policy they’ve been following, shutting down whole cities any time a ‘Covid case’ pops up. It has been especially damaging for trade via Shanghai, which hurts global trade but also China itself. The country now has massive unemployment amongst the young, and educated people increasingly turn to international news available via VPNs, as they no longer trust their government. Countries that previously would have been delighted to sign contracts with China are no longer so keen, apparently. If these trends continue, Xi Zhin Ping may face difficulties being re-elected for a third term in the autumn. We can but hope.

      1. Ed M
        June 17, 2022

        Interesting feedback, thanks. Taken on board.
        However, I would argue that the Covid thing is a blip in China’s onward drive from a more peasant economy back in the 1970’s to a more leading economy now.
        Don’t forget, big problem holding China back is its Communism. Get rid of that, and then the country might really take off (although like Japan, the good years only last about 30 or 40 years or something but Japan still has a relatively strong economy).
        Again, I make the point, 1/5 billion Chinese … And well educated with a rich heritage.
        I’m essentially just saying we in The West need to pull our socks up (but in the way I suggested previously).

      2. Ed M
        June 18, 2022

        What on earth is China up to with this neurotic Covid clampdown?
        Utterly bizarre. Crazy.
        10% more people in China are fully jabbed than people in the UK. And we’re like over Covid here in the UK. I hardly hear anyone talk about it compared to one year ago.

  23. glen cullen
    June 16, 2022

    My petrol up again overnight to ÂŁ1.91
    Its crazy

    1. Bill B.
      June 16, 2022

      Nope, it’s policy, Glen. Slava Ukraini!

    2. B Harris
      June 16, 2022

      …and all because the government has removed our capacity to process the raw material into petrol

      1. Mark B
        June 17, 2022

        . . . and reduce our so called Carbon Footprint.

        Madness.

        1. glen cullen
          June 17, 2022

          not ‘reduced’ but ‘transfered’

  24. bryan Harris
    June 16, 2022

    Why do they never give a direct clear answer to a question?

    We’d all like to know where our extra taxes are being wasted

    1. mancunius
      June 16, 2022

      +1

  25. glen cullen
    June 16, 2022

    I’m all for reducing the size of government; but please start with the Lords and Quangos and not the Ethics Advisers

    1. Mark B
      June 17, 2022

      glen

      I’ll take the loss of a non-job, Ethics Adviser for now.

      An Ethics Adviser is a grown up employed to tell other grown ups how to behave. Why ????????????

      1. Mickey Taking
        June 17, 2022

        Ethics advisors are there to guide dim poshboys as to what the serfs out there expect in terms of what they feel fully entitled to do, and that which might cross the line.

      2. glen cullen
        June 17, 2022

        Agree
        The same with ‘equal opportunity officers’ …thats part of a managers job

      3. rose
        June 17, 2022

        The Ethics Advisers were invented by Blair. Need one say more?

  26. Mark
    June 16, 2022

    Let me see if I can provide a better estimate. Petrol deliveries are running at about 3 million tonnes a quarter, and diesel at 6 million. With the higher ethanol content of E10 petrol, I estimate its density will be about 1375 litres per tonne, while diesel is 1200 litres per tonne. At a pump price of 180ppl 30ppl is VAT, and for 192ppl it’s 32ppl. If we compare against a pump price of 126 ppl for petrol and 132ppl for diesel a year ago the VAT would have been 21ppl and 22ppl respectively, an increase of 9ppl and 10ppl. So that’s 16.5bn litres of petrol and 28.8bn litres of diesel per year, giving VAT increases of ÂŁ1.485bn for petrol and ÂŁ2.88bn for diesel, or ÂŁ4.365bn in total.

    Of course, it may prove to be the case that motor fuel sales decline in the face of high prices, although there was no sign of this in March – the latest month for which I have deliveries data. But if we take the revenue loss as 30ppl it would have to be a very dramatic drop in sales volumes to eliminate the extra tax revenue – almost a third.

    1. Mark
      June 16, 2022

      I suppose I should have couched my answer in terms of the prices in early March, when the OBR would have made their estimates. At that point petrol was around 150ppl, and so VAT would have been 25ppl, so instead of a 9/10ppl increase we are looking at around 6ppl as an average – still over ÂŁ2.5bn more in VAT.

      1. Mark B
        June 17, 2022

        Yet they cannot find any money to fix and paint the roads. Where is all this additional money going ?

  27. anon
    June 16, 2022

    Perhaps are government is trying to engineer a fiat collapse. It only takes a loss of faith in governments and its over. Fiat is backed by the people that work. Once they decide its pointless. Its game over.

    It time to watch whoose currency blows first!

    So Boris government fails again, to a highly predictable last minute move and ECHR challenge. The PM should have already expedited the passage of laws to render the ECHR impotent where the UK courts have ruled.

    Another day another deception or delay and or obfuscation.

    This is how it works the “cabal” work when people vote the wrong way or decisions go the wrong way.

    Eliminate the supply of money to the hangers on of the charitee industry.

    1. Mark B
      June 17, 2022

      I would imagine interest rates will have to rise much further to offset the falling pound vs the dollar.

  28. mancunius
    June 16, 2022

    That the Treasury Minister’s reply stated that the Treasury is reliant on the OBR for ‘forecasts’ suggests the Treasury does no ongoing measurement of what its ongoing revenues actually are, which also implies – rather strangely – that it does not communicate with the OBR.
    The closest business model to this that I can discern is haruspication and other forms of soothsaying and divination during the Roman Empire, and the casting of runes in early medieval Iceland.
    There is a faint resemblance with the Victorian sĂ©ance, yet the major difference is that if there is ‘anyone there’ during a sĂ©ance, they manifest themselves, whereas the Treasury evidently prefer not to communicate at all.

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