The debate last night

C4 made the debate about trust. It would have been more useful if it was a debate about how we get out of the cost of living crisis, how we tackle public service reform and how we earn our livings in a divided and dangerous world.

Tom Tugendhat had an advantage with the audience that he had not been a member of the government so he had not had to vote for everything it did or defend everything it said. C4 did not press Mr Sunak on why he tore  up a Manifesto promise to put up National Insurance . They did not press him on why he thought printing £450 bn of new money would not be inflationary. They did not even ask how, if  a £12 bn NI tax rise was essential for the NHS it would manage now he had given back some of that money with a partial NI cut.

None of them were asked how they would slim and improve the functioning of No 10.



  1. Wanderer
    July 16, 2022

    I wonder why C4 was used, after all their anti-Brexit, Woke agenda nonsense? Why not GB News?

    Most Tory members have access to a computer or mobile device, so could watch it online. No one else has any skin in the game.

    1. X-Tory
      July 16, 2022

      Yes, I too find it very odd that the candidates agreed to appear on the filthy C4. This just shows how WEAK AND STUPID all the candidates are. GB News is an excellent alternative and should definitely have been used.

      On the substance of the debate, I am astonished that NOT ONE candidate made the point that cutting taxes was the way to REDUCE INFLATION. If you cut fuel taxes you cut inflation. And also, NOT ONE candidate made the point that cutting business taxes would INCREASE government revenues (look up the Laffer Curve if you don’t understand this). Again, this just shows how STUPID ALL THE CANDIDATES ARE.

      Why won’t any of them tell us NOW whom they will appoint as Chancellor? I would only support the one who selected Sir John of this parish, as he seems to be the ONLY Tory MP (or indeed, MP of any party) who understands economics! At the moment I believe ALL the candidates are unelectable MORONS.

    2. Maylor
      July 16, 2022

      Perhaps because GB News would be too near the mark !

      Neil Oliver’s views are interesting, if somewhat depressing.

    3. Sharon
      July 16, 2022

      GB News would have asked more pertinent questions… they seem more clued up about what people think and want to know.

    4. Nottingham Lad Himself
      July 16, 2022

      Yeah, that would really have shown it for what it is.

      What an admission!

    5. hefner
      July 16, 2022

      The three debates are on C4 (Friday), ITV (Sunday) and Sky (Tuesday).
      Could it be that GBNews with 2-2.5 m viewers is not considered as important as channels with 6 to 15 m viewers (statista, 17/01/2022). Furthermore a YouGov poll last year (08/07/2021) clearly showed that GBNews mostly appeal to older demographics (the Boomers essentially, a bit GenX, not the Millenials or GenZ).

      GBNews is certainly ‘more clued up about what people’ like the majority on this blog ‘think and want to know’. Unfortunately these people are not among the majority that the ad people want to reach.

      Simples, the laws of the market. GBNews is Saga TV.

      1. Peter2
        July 17, 2022

        One thing to remember hef is that older voters vote more as a group than the youngsters you mention.

  2. DOM
    July 16, 2022

    Sunak wants programmable cash. This issue is his Achilles Heel. No one wants this most sinister of State weapons against privacy and freedom from the State.

    I don’t want to live in a country (UK) whose politicians and bureaucrats try to mirror Marxist China. That is completely unacceptable in a nation like ours that has been sliding towards State control since 1997

    1. Peter Parsons
      July 16, 2022

      State control has been around for much longer than that and under governments of all persuasions. For example, the changes the Thatcher government made to university funding in the 1980s has been described as one of the finest examplea of Stalinist-style state planning ever implemented.

      1. Mitchel
        July 16, 2022

        Tom Tugendhat wants a ten year plan;even Stalin made do with a five year version!

    2. Lifelogic
      July 16, 2022


    3. Cliff. Wokingham.
      July 16, 2022

      Absolutely spot on Dom. I also see that Tony Blair was again pushing for digital Id cards yesterday according to the Telegraph.

    4. Nottingham Lad Himself
      July 16, 2022

      As James O’Brien said, this isn’t even rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

      It’s moving cat s**t round a litter tray.

      1. Peter2
        July 16, 2022

        I thought you might a fan of that man NHL.

  3. Sharon
    July 16, 2022

    I didn’t watch the debate last night, mainly because if it was anything like the BBC questioning, the questions wouldn’t be very searching. Seems I was right – a waste of time then really.

    1. Lifelogic
      July 16, 2022

      Indeed nothing on the large open door immigration policy needless to say. Nor our chocolate teapot police & joke criminal justice system. No really serious discussion on the net zero insanity either.

      1. miami.mode
        July 16, 2022

        They all seemed to commit to net zero as non-negotiable and yet our most pressing and immediate problem is energy which impinges on every aspect of our lives and work.

        1. Lifelogic
          July 16, 2022


    2. Bloke
      July 16, 2022

      The Debate was of a low standard, Sharon, as you expected. All 5 candidates plodded along without much progress or adequate contrast. Being mutually chummy is fine for working together, yet solely DIFFERENCES enable voters to choose between best and worst.

      Lively voters should interrogate candidates harshly for better revelation of distinction. In a 2 or 3 candidate contest, candidates interrogating each other would be more revealing and fit for purpose.

  4. BOF
    July 16, 2022

    What a very uninspiring quintet on TV last night, and a very uninformative debate.

    I agree with your summary Sir John.

    1. Lifelogic
      July 16, 2022

      Indeed please can we have the pre-Carrie Boris back? The one before Boris was turned (by Carrie or Covid?) from a small state, libertarian, climate realist into essentially a tax to death socialist, big state, lock down enthusiast, open door to illegal immigration, tax to death, net zero loon? One who instead of sorting out things like the incompetent NHS just banged pans for them like a performing seal.

  5. agricola
    July 16, 2022

    The country needs the debate on GB News who are much more likely to dissect rhetoric. I have no faith in the establishment channels to follow anything but their own agenda. When asking candidates to justify tax cuts does anyone ever consider reducing government expenditure. Expenditure which currently supports a dependency socialist state while conveniently ignoring many who really need help. Who are the real Conservatives among the residual runners.

    1. Shirley M
      July 16, 2022

      Agreed, Agricola. Trust was the correct word, and is virtually non-existent among politicians. I regularly see how few politicians act in the interests of the UK. Point scoring and prioritising every other country and citizen of the world is more important, for some reason.

      Trust and democracy. The majority of current politicians respect neither. I am so disillusioned with UK politics and politicians of ALL colours!

    2. Donna
      July 16, 2022

      I’d love to see a debate on GB News, chaired by Nigel and Mark Steyn. Now THAT really would be worth watching.

      But the “talent show” CONs on offer wouldn’t dare do it.

  6. BW
    July 16, 2022

    If this was about trust, how is Mr Sunak even there. Anyone who can say he is a tax cutting chancellor whilst increasing them blows his honesty out of the competition. Standing side by side with your boss ready to plunge the knife in blows his integrity out as well. He is just a well polished man in front of the camera. Like Mr Blair, and that didn’t turn out well.
    Mr Tugendhat. A staunch remainer who is still trying to overturn the democratic vote who’s wife works for Macron. No thank you.
    Then we have Penny. Woke as you like. Already telling porkies about her past record to get the job. So she, they, her is out.
    I think Liz (now a brexiteer) is the one, especially if she has Braverman as her Home Secretary as Braverman is the only one who has said she would get us out of the ECHR and get rid of the Human Rights Act giving us a proper Brexit.

    1. John Miller
      July 16, 2022

      My thoughts exactly and our conclusions are identical.

    2. glen cullen
      July 16, 2022

      Sadly I agree that this Tory government (with any leader) will never take us out of the ECHR

    3. Barbara
      July 16, 2022

      I would agree with you, except Liz has said she is committed to the deardful Net Zero.

      1. Barbara
        July 16, 2022


      2. Original Richard
        July 16, 2022

        Barbara :

        The difference between exiting the ECHR and exiting Net Zero is that the latter will eventually happen. It is just a question of when and how much damage the green saboteurs can achieve in the meantime.

        As both Newton and Feynman said “Nature can’t be fooled”.

        Yesterday I saw that our 27.5 GW of installed wind power managed less than 1GW of power.

        The current Net Zero Strategy of relying on Chinese built renewables (wind and solar) and electrification (with China supplying the raw materials for batteries and motors/generators) is designed to eventually fail.

        If net zero CO2 is the aim (which it isn’t because CO2 is plant food and there is no correlation between CO2 levels and average global temperature) then we should be using nuclear and green hydrocarbons (methane).

    4. Pauline Baxter
      July 16, 2022

      BW. Thank you for saying all that. I was wondering what Tugendhat really stood for, now I know!
      Agree about Sunak. He is a big tax big State man. Just about the last thing we need.
      Also agree about Liz Truss being the best we can hope for.
      She did get us a trade deal with Oz (who have plenty of uranium).
      AND Lord Frost wants her – presumably she’d get him back as an advisor.
      The most depressing thing about the debate is that apparently, Truss has lost points as a result of it.
      She could hardly criticise Boris’s pet scheme for net zero, while she was in his cabinet.
      Presumably they were not asked about that by Channel 4.

  7. None of the above
    July 16, 2022

    I do not usually watch these TV debates and your precis sums up why. TV presenters are after sensationalism not policy illumination.
    I am not a party member but I am a supporter and therefore interested in the choice that they will have. I am dismayed that almost one third of the parliamentary party do not seem to understand the mistakes that Sunak and the BoE have made and the damage that will ensue if the course is not altered.
    I await Mondays ballot with interest.

  8. Cuibono
    July 16, 2022

    Oh my goodness…what an awful programme.
    Utterly dire! Could not bear to watch.
    If they are asking about trust…then not a shred.
    We have been lied to too much.
    Even sheep learn ….eventually!

  9. Sir Joe Soap
    July 16, 2022

    Sunak also had the advantage that he could knock the others for their plans but they couldn’t knock the government. He did however face a pincer of people who didn’t believe him. Trust in his policies even amongst his colleagues was absent. Still not certain whether he’s thick or deceptive.

    1. Donna
      July 16, 2022

      He’s definitely not thick, but he completely lacks self-awareness and cannot be trusted. A Chancellor cannot blatantly break Manifesto promises; refuse to reverse them when ordinary taxpayers are being hammered by a cost of living crisis which HE largely created and then plead that he’s “being responsible.”

      During last night’s performance, he reminded me of Kaa, the snake in The Jungle Book, who tries to hypnotise Mowgli before throttling him:

      Trust in me, just in me
      Shut your eyes and trust in me
      You can sleep safe and sound
      Knowing I am around

      Slip into silent slumber
      Sail on a silver mist
      Slowly and surely your senses
      Will cease to resist

      Trust in me, just in me
      Shut your eyes and trust in me

  10. Donna
    July 16, 2022

    Only 0.9GW of electricty is being provided by the heavily subsidised windmills this morning …… and solar is just 2.2 GW.

    Gas …. 14.9 GW.

    We are paying 25% “green levies” on our energy bills for this madness. But every candidate last night committed themselves to the Net Zero lunacy, although some (Truss in particular) said they would amend the policies intended to achieve it.

    1. Lifelogic
      July 16, 2022

      Indeed. We should abandon the green levy and net zero. The solutions being pushes and subsidised Wind, Solar, walking, cycling, heat pumps, hydrogen, more public transport, EVs… do not even work in CO2 terms to any real degree – let alone in world climate terms. The policy is deluded and unscientific.

    2. Sea_Warrior
      July 16, 2022

      Disappointingly, the nanny state has been advising us against drinking beer in the sunshine. I will be!!!

      1. BOF
        July 16, 2022

        Cheers, S W. 😊😊😊

      2. glen cullen
        July 16, 2022

        The Sky TV weather reporter advised against driving in ‘older’ cars if you need to travel on Monday or Tuesday

  11. Cheshire Girl
    July 16, 2022

    Surely, you didn’t expect anything else. As soon as I heard that Channel 4 was going to present the debate, I didnt bother to watch it. It would have been all about making the odious Guru Murphy look good, and the Tories look bad.

    Remarks in the Daily Telegraph today, confirmed my suspicions. It was said that Guru Murthy didn’t allow anyone to ‘get a word in’. He always asks a question, and then tells the interviewee what he thinks the answer should be. I don’t watch Ch. 4 News for the same reason. All of the team there are as bad.

  12. Lifelogic
    July 16, 2022

    No question on the 400+ per day illegal economic migrants as one would expect from Channel 4. Perhaps 2000 a day when their families follow.

    Sunak is very confused. Looking after “the environment” is one thing, his mad expensive intermittent energy agenda, net zero and a war on plant, tree & crop food it a quite different matter and clearly just a con trick for more taxes.

    Sunak caused this inflation yet now says we have to wait for tax cuts only when he has got it under control. But his incompetent policies or tax, borrow, print and piss down the drain caused the problem. He ratted on the manifesto promises too – so who would trust him now? As Truss puts it you cannot tax your way out of a recession!

    1. Donna
      July 16, 2022

      If Sir John will permit, here’s the latest “instruction” to elected Governments from the WEF on the subject of “green” energy.

      Apparently, gas and oil prices must be forced even higher and taxes imposed on non-compliant countries so that “green” energy will gain in popularity and “save / spread democracy.” And it seems every “talent show” candidate is fully on board with this policy.

      1. Sharon
        July 16, 2022

        Sounds like that WEF article was written by Kaa too! Sickly!

      2. glen cullen
        July 16, 2022

        I don’t recall seeing the UN WEF on the ballot paper at the last general election !

    2. Diane
      July 16, 2022

      LL No question on the 400+ ….. So far 1804 known arrivals ( MoD figures ) 03 July to 15 July inclusive but the chain migration you suggest is important but never seems to be addressed. Interesting article on Politico in the last few days titled “Ireland runs out of rooms for Ukrainians – and blames UK’s Rwanda policy”

  13. , George Brooks.
    July 16, 2022

    The C4 debate was pathetic with the first section all hinged around Boris and trust and as you say Sir John nothing on a future administration. In fact is wasn’t a debate it was a series of answers to what appeared to be a few planted questions delivered by some representatives from a small section (about 14 – 15%) of our population.

    After 45 minutes I switched over to the England/NR girls match which was far more enjoyable, but went back for the final speeches. Here again C4 cocked it up by only allowing 45 seconds. It should have been at the very least a minute and even better at 90sec.

    The Nigerian lass has got what it takes to lead but it is far too early in her parliamentary career, Tom T is a light weight and Penny M, I would not trust as far as I could throw her and she is a big girl. I hope to goodness that Liz and Rishi are the last two.

  14. Mark B
    July 16, 2022

    Good morning.

    Pardon me, but I do not remember when both Labour and the Liberal Democrats were deciding a new leader they having to go through this charade.

    Why does the Conservative Party think it appropriate to do this ?

    1. None of the Above
      July 16, 2022

      Well Said!

  15. Denis Cooper
    July 16, 2022

    It concerns me that Liz Truss keeps going on about the UK having had “low growth for decades.”

    This provides an interesting historical perspective:

    “Does Brexit mean a “cliff edge”? More a shallow pothole”

    “If we compare any single year with its neighbours, acceleration and deceleration are real enough. But compare one decade with another and a different picture emerges. Indeed if we look at Office for National Statistics figures for the year-on-year growth of the UK’s GNP from 1949 to 2016, booms and busts make little difference to longer-term trends. Macmillan’s consumer bonanza; disengagement from empire; entry into the EEC; the miners’ strike; Thatcherism; Blairism; globalisation: these things produced, at most, modest effects. Background noise apart, UK GNP since 1949 has grown at about 2.5 per cent per annum, irrespective of the party in office, regardless of geopolitical events.”

    That was from October 2017 and it could not anticipate the massive disruption caused by the pandemic, but as we come out of it we seem to be reverting to a similar trend growth rate, as shown here:

    So it is simply not true that we have had “low growth for decades”; we have had irregular growth but over more than seven past decades, basically since the Second World War, we have had growth averaging 2.5% a year, and I do not expect that Liz Truss or any other Prime Minister will be able to permanently accelerate it.

  16. Bryan Harris
    July 16, 2022

    Let’s face it, such debates are part of the election circus, and while some may say it entertains, you have to ask who controls the format and questions, and just who does it influence?

    The Tory party wants to control, or at least have a great deal of influence on who their leader will be – but for a role of such importance we cannot trust the instincts of a by and large federalist party.

    Left to those that run things, Tory members will end up with only 2 establishment figures to vote for – that is hardly a choice. There won’t even be a ‘none of the above’ option on the ballot papers so that members can reject all candidates.

    In such situations where candidates are immediately catapulted into power, a more comprehensive democratic approach is overdue to get approval for a new PM.

  17. ChrisS
    July 16, 2022

    We watched the programme throughout and I have to say I was not greatly impressed.
    For all the reasons our host has stated, I would not back Sunak’s high tax agenda.
    Of the other candidates :
    Tugendhat really didn’t come out with any firm policy ideas of his own. He should stay on the FA select committee.
    Badenoch was far better than I expected, but has too little experience to be remotely credible as PM.
    Mordaunt seemed nervous and ill-at-ease and similarly has too little experience. She could be a good bet later, but only if she gets a big job in the new government and does well in cabinet.

    Which leaves Liz Truss, my preferred candidate before the debate. She did not come over as well as I had hoped but if one rejects Sunak on policy grounds, she was clearly the best of the bunch. Not sure she will go down as well as Sunak in the country, but her economic agenda should appeal to Conservative party members.

    1. ChrisS
      July 16, 2022

      PS : Liz should easily be able to beat Starmer or anyone else on the Labour front bench !

      1. ukretired123
        July 16, 2022

        Liz Truss is from the Red herself and converted with conviction and results.
        Starmer is from London left champagne socialist & Corbyn Marxists.
        He will be red meat ready to beat.
        I would like to be in her situational shoes not his.
        She went to a comprehensive school but is an achiever by half punching above her weight.

        1. ukretired123
          July 16, 2022

          Red Wall Leeds, UK that is. Read wiki on her formidable achievements – Don’t arm wrestle with her as she is a winner. Underestimate her at your peril like Mrs T.

    2. Sea_Warrior
      July 16, 2022

      I’m more relaxed about Kemi’s lack of experience. Cameron didn’t have much when he became PM and he did OK. Kemi has the great advantage of thinking like a Conservative.

  18. Richard Oliver
    July 16, 2022

    I hear that the Labour Party and the Lib Dems are going to use a similar idea when they choose their next leaders. When they get their shortlists down to five or so they will then hold three tv debates.
    The first one will be on Talk TV hosted by Julia Hartley Brewer and Mike Graham.
    The second debate will be on Spectator TV and will be hosted by Fraser Nelson and Douglas Murray.
    And the third on GB News hosted by Nigel Farage and Mark Steyn.
    Both Labour and the Lib Dems don’t forsee any issues with this idea.

    1. SM
      July 16, 2022

      Great comment, Richard!

      And by the way, I have just (2.15pm, 16/7)) looked at the BBC online news, and noticed a brief report on the C4 debate, in which the ex-Chancellor is referred to as Rishi Sunk …. predictive text in its full meaning?

  19. X-Tory
    July 16, 2022

    Sir John,
    There is one thing I really don’t understand: You, presumably, have a favoured candidate. So why on earth are you not briefing him or her on economics??? Why aren’t you telling him or her – privately, in one-to-one tutorials – what to say?

    Or do you not support ANY of the candidates? Is that why you are not telling us who you are voting for?

    Reply I am setting out my views for all to use. I have been talking to all the candidates as I have set out here. I never provide a running commentary on private conversations.

    1. Geoffrey Berg
      July 16, 2022

      That is presumably why Sir John can’t sensibly say who he is or has been voting for -if he did all the other candidates wouldn’t even listen, let alone heed him and even the one he was voting for would probably just take his support for granted.

  20. Fedupsoutherner
    July 16, 2022

    I watched some of the debate last night. I was totally uninspired by all. The only person I could possibly vote for is Truss. Her approach to taxation is sensible, her thoughts on the environment are doable and she’s a Brexiteer. She’s got Suella Braver man behind her too. A bonus. Penny was a let down. She seemed way out of her depth. No questions on illegal immigration that I heard. All in all pretty downbeat and I think people will be sorry Boris came to a bad end.

  21. Donna
    July 16, 2022

    We all know there is an underlying reason why C4 made the debate mostly about “trust issues.”

    It had a great deal more to do with C4’s perception of the Conservative Party and Johnson than anything to do with the “talent show” candidates for the Party Leadership.

    Imagine if this was a Labour Leadership “talent show.” Would the Labour candidates be questioned about the significant trust issue of attempting to overturn the result of the largest democratic vote the country has ever held? Personally, I doubt it.

    There were no direct questions yesterday about at least one very important issue which is infuriating about 80% of the population: immigration and in particularly the hordes of illegal migrants being ferried across the channel and accommodated in 4* hotels at OUR expense, or the Rwanda proposal and the related issue of the ECHR/HRA.

    Now why would that be? Cynical old me thinks it’s because C4 doesn’t have a problem with tens of thousands of 3rd worlders forcing their way into the UK for a life of Riley paid for by British taxpayers.

    When it comes to the candidates and trust, we already know:

    1. Sunak can’t be trusted on the economy; or to keep major manifesto promises which he controls through his brief
    2. Tugendhat can’t be trusted to honour the result of a democratic vote – and he proposed yesterday that we should “restore trust” with an EU which has spent the past 6 years attempting to punish the UK for rejecting membership and is actively trying to prise NI out of the UK. So he is basically an EU-appeaser and certainly can’t be trusted with Brexit.
    3. Mordaunt can’t be trusted on cultural/woke issues.

    Badenoch is basically an unknown quantity. She certainly talks a good talk, but that hasn’t been tested by being in a senior Ministerial position and facing tough decisions where “manoeuvring” on a former commitment may be deemed appropriate

    That leaves Truss, who appears to be no different to the Maybot: a Remainer; a LibCon; a bland, boring personality-free zone who struggles to communicate effectively and, in my opinion, would be incapable of winning the next election. The Maybot couldn’t be trusted …..

    I cannot imagine a “debate” between Truss and the equally bland, boring, personality-free zone that is Starmer.

    Perhaps they’re aiming to bore us to death?

  22. turboterrier
    July 16, 2022

    As one hears many times at sporting events
    “What a load of ######## seen more life in a graveyard at four in the morning.
    Partly due to the presenter.
    No mention on immigration, energy security, government waste etc etc etc
    A uninspiring exercise to confirm it the running of this country will be same old , same old perfect example of yes another situation normal mind set.
    What I stupidly wished for would have been interview with SJR, Steve Baker David Davis Andrew Bridgen and Chris Heaton- Harris.
    People who can and do think outside the box, because they understand what’s in it.
    This country voted for Brexit I think those would have made the debate more enlightening and exceeded our expectations.

    1. ukretired123
      July 16, 2022

      “People who can and do think outside the box, because they understand what’s in it.”
      Excellent, thanks!

  23. Berkshire Alan
    July 16, 2022

    Did not view it, so cannot make a comment, but sounds like the usual stitch up fiasco from a media broadcaster who have their own agenda.

  24. John Miller
    July 16, 2022

    Pretty dire fare.
    Net Zero, or political extinction, approved by all (except perhaps Liz Truss).
    Lots of trying to appeal to voters who would rather lose a limb than vote Tory. Silly.

  25. glen cullen
    July 16, 2022

    And they’re all going to continue with the lunacy policies of net-zero

  26. ukretired123
    July 16, 2022

    Starting with do you trust Boris and ending with are you a green were typical MSM trick questions designed to damage. It was for C4 anti agenda and
    lefty audience. You knew what was coming up and MPs would regret its beauty contest gets ugly – fortunately Liz Truss got serious and led not critical of her colleagues demonstrated unflappable under pressure, TT smiling cynically and RS quips fairy tales.
    KB was sensible and torpedoed Mission Ms Mordant on gender bending. MMM highly practiced regardez moi, moi, moi me too from mirror gazing photo shoot therapy for stressed egos like RS who thinks he is entitled to it. He belittled LT and abused his position elbowing someone who comes from the Red Wall herself – how ironic indeed.
    In 2024 the only one who can deliver what voters want is Liz Truss in my opinion coming from Leeds and she is a convert more determined by conviction. Voters will forgive you are not like Boris if you just deliver, deliver and deliver believe me.

  27. Lindsay McDougall
    July 16, 2022

    And none of them were pressed on how they would deliver the clearly necessary cuts in public expenditure. It is the dog that didn’t bark and it’s high time that it should. The Autumn budget is at most 4 months away and nobody is talking about the measures that will need to be at its heart.

    The notion that State debt can be allowed to increase is baloney. It is almost 100% of GDP, at the top end of bankers’ ramp territory. If you don’t believe me, just ask Greeks and Italians.

  28. paul
    July 16, 2022

    Turning down your hot water boiler control is more beneficial than listening to hot air from the con party.
    The con party manifesto is not for the public but for the house of Lords, it is a statement of government to Lords of the business of the government over it elective term and the order of business to be passed by the Lords for the people government, if not in the manifesto the Lords do not have to pass the bill put before them and can alter the bill or play for time. The NI bill which is not in the manifesto will be one of those bills. The treaty with the EU at the moment has been signed by PM BO might suit the next PM of the con party or might not, the treaty can be sent back to the EU for alteration to made within six months as new PM sees fit or the new PM can call for No deal on the treaty and walkaway.

  29. Christine
    July 16, 2022

    The Conservative Party has been so infiltrated with WEF stooges over the last few decades that it will be impossible for them to overturn their damaging policies on tax, net-zero, and immigration. All the main political parties are the same and until the public wakes up to this fact and elects an alternative we are doomed to reduce our standard of living. I’ll continue to support the Reform party as it is the only one with sensible policies I agree with.

    1. Donna
      July 16, 2022

      I agree. I was already highly unlikely to vote to be CONNED again and whichever of these lacklustre candidates wins, has reinforced that.
      If you support the cause of reform of the Civil Service, our governmental institutions and the electoral system, then the CON Party has nothing to offer you. In fact (much as it pains me to say it) a Labour/LibDem coalition, where the price is a version of PR which means smaller/newer parties have a chance of gaining seats might be beneficial in the long run.

      1. Original Richard
        July 16, 2022

        Christine & Donna :

        I agree.

        If the Conservative Party MPs fix it so the Conservative Party members are left with a choice between two woke WEF candidates supporting Net Zero, uncontrolled immigration and high tax/spend policies etc then there is a very good chance they will lose the next GE and proportional representation will come. If the last EU MEP elections are an indicator it could be the end of the Conservative Party as we know it.

  30. Sea_Warrior
    July 16, 2022

    I don’t much like stridency in women but I would advise Kemi to be just that when presenting her views to the British people. They will be highly receptive to clear views.

  31. acorn
    July 16, 2022

    The bottom line is the Conservative Party must survive. Which of these candidates is most likely to con the electorate into voting the Conservative Party back into government at the next election. Is ideology trumping ethnic identity in this contest to make sure? Conservative Party members and the wider Conservative voter have to be thrown some red meat at any election time. Tax cuts; public spending cuts; immigration cuts etc etc; regardless of them ever getting delivered. One thing you can guarantee is that this bunch has even less idea of how to restructure UK plc than the last lot.

    1. Peter2
      July 16, 2022

      You sound worried already, that your lot will do badly in the next election acorn.
      For “con” read seek to persuade or encourage
      For “throw some red meat” read offer voters policies that are popular or they find agreeable

  32. Original Richard
    July 16, 2022

    “C4 made the debate about trust. It would have been more useful if it was a debate about how we get out of the cost of living crisis, how we tackle public service reform and how we earn our livings in a divided and dangerous world.”

    Of course the debate was useless as far as the general public are concerned because the candidates still need to first get through the Conservative MPs vote.

    The majority of Conservative MPs are woke and are happy with Net Zero, uncontrolled immigration (legal and illegal) and the OHB so none of these issues will be discussed.

    This is why the CP selected Channel 4 as the ideal medium for this debate.

  33. Margaretbj.
    July 16, 2022

    John I partly agree with you But isn’t the basis of all the manoeuvring trust , distrust and a downright lack of moral fibre.When I do speak of moral fibre of course, people Will put their own interpretation on what they think is ethical but we all know ambition and power is a strong motivating force.

  34. paul
    July 16, 2022

    Next con party PM needs to offer the public a referendum, on the EU deal made by parliament and it helpers.

  35. turboterrier
    July 16, 2022

    The principles of the whole thing reflected badly on the party. The minute they put their names forward, any underlying past comments, thoughts and actions should have been raised quietly before acceptance into the process. Character assassination is all well and good for the media but in light how the last tenure of No 10 fared it maybe it would have only allowed candidates with no skeletons to give the media and opposition ammunition in the months and hopefully years ahead.

  36. paul cuthbertson
    July 17, 2022

    Channel 4 is anti everything the people stand for, Brexit, Trump etc.
    Tom Tugendhat attended this years Bilderberg gathering along with Liz Truss who attended 2 years ago.
    And these two, along with all the others have the interest of the people at heart.????

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