I find it bizarre that the government does not have an answer to this question which it can share with the rest of us. Given the high numbers of migrants welcomed into our country in recent years, it has taken considerable investment in social housing, primary and secondary schools, new surgeries and other capacity to accommodate them. The EU last decade suggested a figure of around 250,000 Euro for the set up and capital support costs for new arrivals, given the need for homes and good quality public services.
The Home Office has provided the following answer to your written parliamentary question (92052):
Question:
To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, if she will make an estimate of the average capital cost of providing (a) housing, (b) school places, (c) health services and (d) transport capacity for a new migrant family. (92052)
Tabled on: 21 November 2022
This question was grouped with the following question(s) for answer:
- To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, if she will make an estimate of the average cost to the public purse of providing (a) housing, (b) benefits and (c) public service capacity for a new migrant who takes a job below the average wage in their first year in the UK. (92051)
Tabled on: 21 November 2022
Answer:
Robert Jenrick:
The Home Office does not hold this information.
The answer was submitted on 29 Nov 2022 at 15:46.
December 3, 2022
The Economist, Bagehot, 01/12/2022 āEmigration is in the air for Britonsā.
560,000 left Britain between July 2021 and June 2022.
December 3, 2022
A junior doctor I know has just gone off to Australia is now paid circa Ā£90k more than double the NHS rate she was on. Plus the working conditions and respect given far superior to the dire NHS.
December 3, 2022
Lifelogic,
Do Australia train their own doctors? Or does the UK train a good % of their doctors for them?
Is it exactly the same hours, terms and benefits (guaranteed final salary pension), overtime/weekend rates, shift allowances etc? Is she working for a state hospital or private?
Are her Australian taxes the same/similar as UK taxes or higher?
Does this doctor still have to pay her student loan debt or is this another 9% tax saving (or is she Scottish, Welsh or Irish)?
Itās fascinating, how can Australia afford to pay healthcare workers double yet pay roughly the same national insurance (health tax) package as those in the UK?
December 3, 2022
I would also like to know who funds Wanted Down Under, the TV programme, Iāve asked under the FOI and been refused this information. It is an ongoing advert for British Professionals to leave. Itās been on for years and is repeated on many channels. Can you address this please John?
December 3, 2022
The student loan can not be collected unless the ex-student is being paid in the UK a-tracey.
Conscientious debtors can make voluntary payments but I suspect this is unlikely. If the ex-student is not earning in the UK the Student Loans company do not pursue the debt as the taxpayer will cover it when it is written off.
December 3, 2022
Medical training in the USA is very expensive, how do the UK propose to keep any UK trained doctors if they have to pay 9% extra student loan tax only in the UK? Do they have to sign up for a number of years in the NHS? We train lots of students from Australia, do we give them student loans too?
December 3, 2022
If there was somewhere better with a future I think that estimate would be a factor of 5.
December 3, 2022
Digital Nomad visas are enticing those who can work from home to move abroad. This is what happens when our government increases taxes.
December 3, 2022
You cannot help but think the current cabinet personal circumstances influences their policy for more mass immigration.
December 3, 2022
Indeed, Hefner.
I would rather that Sir John had asked:
To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, if she will make an estimate of the average cost to the public purse of providing (a) housing, (b) benefits and (c) public service capacity for a disruptive, education-immune child born to Leave/ukip/reform/tory voters who takes a job below the average wage, over their life in the UK.
Tabled on: 21 November 2022
December 3, 2022
how sad!
December 3, 2022
Socialist Tories are not interested in cost, why would they? Look at how much they are currently spaffing all around the world!
Heaton-Harris currently exacting coercive control over N.Ireland MPs threatening to cut their pay if they do not cave to EU demands! He should be sacked. He will not because Snake and Hunt want close alignment to EU and have already given away so much to EU in the last month!!
Traitors the lost of them.
December 3, 2022
Now there is no doubt where you are coming from. The thin lipped branch of socialism at the base of the money tree awaiting windfalls.
December 3, 2022
Insults do not constitute an argument, fun though they are.
December 3, 2022
The Home Office (HO) report and accounts says the ten year contract for “asylum” and “detention” was priced at Ā£4.6 billion. It looks like it spent Ā£1.6 billion in 21/22 alone. The HO accounts deliberately reveal little more than a written question.
December 3, 2022
The polices you would have the government pursue encourage that type of behaviour NLH. You are a stalwart of t cradle to grave government intervention.
December 5, 2022
It is common knowledge that the type you describe are without doubt mainly firmly in the Labour camp.
Labour and those wishing to make this country virtually ungovernable through its policy of clashing cultures, and naked hatred of the heritage population need the ‘education immune’ as you put it so nastily.
Come on, how else do your type get to see yourselves as so superior??
December 3, 2022
If they were like me when I went to live in another country for a prolonged period, they would have paid their own way in their new country.
They will increase the cost of living for those in the new country by increasing demand, but hopefully will be productive within their sector (even if that is just being a bar fly) and bring gains in the economy.
That is not the case with most of those coming into this country. They are impeding automation or just taking.
December 3, 2022
Here is a House of Commons Library Research Briefing on “Migration Statistics” published on Thursday:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/
I expect that will be the source for the Economist article.
There is a chart going back to 1964 showing immigration, emigration and net migration. I would say that immigration is now more in the air than emigration. I will let other people form their opinions.
I was not actually looking for that report; I was looking for one with some kind of answer to the question of costs posed by JR, but the most recent one which is immediately visible dates back to 2008:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/rp08-65/
“Impacts of immigration”
I don’t know whether a single MP can get them to do the research and write a report answering his question.
December 4, 2022
Some of the best research was done by Prof Rowthorn for Civitas. His analysis was very thoughtful, and considered many aspects that were omitted in much of the government commissioned work (e.g. Dustmann and Frattini). Unfortunately, his last contribution was in 2014 (he is now 83), but his methodology is written up for researchers to work with to provide more up to date numbers. His conclusion was that on a current basis immigration was about neutral economically, but it would become a negative as the immigrant population aged, increasing welfare dependence and health care need. Of course, that was based on earlier patterns of migration.
December 3, 2022
It is obvious.
There are no entry qualifications to come to Britain.
There are entry requirements to every other developed country, therefor the outflow is of better quality that the inflow.
We simply do not need politicians if they are going to run our country this badly.
We are border-less therefore we are now country-less and going down fast.
December 3, 2022
Dear Sir John,
There is no cost benefit analysis to low wage immigration, given the volume it will cost.
December 3, 2022
Why doesnāt it have this information? Not to have it is surely a dereliction of duty! It seems that there is not a single thing the Home Office can do competently!
December 3, 2022
It doesn’t have the information because the figured would be staggering. It would expose the lie that immigration financially benefits the country.
We all know it’s a source of poverty and crime but its waycist to mention it.
December 3, 2022
Why do all think council tax is hiked beyond belief? Might it be the costs of the socialist Tory mass immigration is further burdened upon us through council tax increases! Might it be that is why school places, doctor appointments etc etc cannot cope because of the sheer volume. This is the dishonesty of socialist Tories in action.
December 3, 2022
Apparently, nor does it hold stats for those that may arrive via Eurotunnel & in the backs of vehicles. Under F O I requests to obtain a rough estimate of figures an official reply reportedly stated “There were approximately 5000 in-country detections January to August 2022” ( SteveLawsReport ) It’s also reported that the number of hotels being used as of early November was 419.
December 3, 2022
All those highly paid civil servants in top level meeting all day ā doesnāt any one of them ask āāyou know all those immigrants we receive, I wonder just how much its costing usāā āāyeah maybe the minister, the exchequer and the taxpayer would like to knowāā
December 3, 2022
Not just the Home Office. How can our Government know how high to set the income thresholds for immigrants allowed to come here unless they are sure they won’t be a burden on English tax payers? So they must know to set those. Perhaps they’re just totally incompetent and don’t!!
December 3, 2022
Good morning.
Here is my question.
Why ? Why do we have to house them, provide FREE schools and healthcare ? We owe them nothing !
December 3, 2022
Iāve always wondered why we have to provide a whole new lifeā¦ for free!
My daughter emigrated, and a condition of her visa was that her husband is to provide for her in the event of her not having a job. Simples!
December 3, 2022
+1 Sharon. I’m an EU citizen and move around Europe a bit. Even the deal there, is that you can’t stay more than 3 months unless you can financially support yourself. No money? Then it’s “adios”, “au revoir”, “auf wiedersehen” for legal internal migrants.
Having said that they seem to be pretty lax about illegals, but less generous than the uk. Numbers of illegals are worrying. I’m currently in Austria where they got 80 000 last year that they know about (in a country of 8.9m).
December 3, 2022
And why would they be entitled to benefits? I thought a person had to live here for a number of years before they could claim.
December 3, 2022
I have entered āthe dole officeā once in my life. It was 1990. The Tories had created the usual boom and bust and in the construction industry we were already in a slump. After years of self employment I had taken a salaried job to shelter from the Toriesā economic storm. But it didnāt work. After 1 year and 9 months I was made redundant – last in, first out.
With a family to support I swallowed my pride and went to sign on. All they would pay me was to pay my national insurance stamp – a couple of quid a week just to keep my NI record intact.
Still, why should I get any help? I was born here and had worked and paid taxes all my life. Clearly I was not deserving of help. It was the start for me despising the state. Retired now, I have arranged my finances to pay as little tax as possible. Alas I canāt dodge council tax, VAT and duties on fuel. But can aboid income tax, NI and capital gains.
December 4, 2022
The only time I visited one was to apply for a National Insurance card as a teenager.
December 3, 2022
And whatās your solution. Herd them into a compound without food, shelter, water etc?
Maybe some knowledge of what our responsibilities are (minimum UNHRC) that we will have signed before you write this stuff.
Get real.
December 3, 2022
What’s the solution in France if you rock up and spend more than 90 days there?
December 3, 2022
If you are to spend up to 10 years there, you can get āune carte de resident de 10 ans dāun Ć©tranger en Franceā. Among various types of ādemandeursā there is even the possibility for a āretraiteā (retired person). It costs ā¬225. (service-public.fr 13/04/2022 āCarte de resident de 10 ansā. It includes the list of documents to be provided) .
One is expected to have a residence there and to be paying the local taxes on it.
Also expected is to have enough funds to live there (proof of pension(s) is required) but access to āSĆ©curitĆ© Socialeā (doctors, hospitals) is usually done in parallel (Carte Vitale, http://www.ameli.fr, you will be likely to have to fill āCerfa 15763 Demande dāouverture des droits a lāassurance maladieā demarchesadministratives.fr, 29/07/2022).
The obtention of such a residence card can be initiated from the web, but there will be a compulsory face-to-face interview in a prefecture, sous-prefecture, or mairie to get the final document.
Not surprisingly all websites are in French and so will be the interview.
December 3, 2022
Nig1 – isnāt the solution to start with being aware of what this minimum UNHRC costs? For Jenrick to have no idea because the HO doesnāt hold that figure is unbelievable.
When the average Jane or Joe get into money problems, one of the first thing an advisor would ask them to do is to make a list of how much does everything cost that you spend money on. Focus on listing every 1p, even that Ā£2 lottery ticket, or Ā£1 chocolate treat. Know exactly how much per week your energy, water, rent (mortgage), rates (the big bills cost).
December 3, 2022
Nigel,
We have a moat. Prevent them coming or ship them out ASAP.
December 3, 2022
Nigl.
Real? They get little in France where they live in squatter camps or on the streets. Here they get everything including GP appointments. We owe them nothing. Stop them in the channel and turn them back.
Leave the UNHRC and every other organisation preventing this.
December 3, 2022
Agreed BOF. But the Blu-Green-Socialist-CON Party will never do it. They don’t want to.
December 3, 2022
The LAW is there, it just needs enforcement
Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002
Asylum claims by persons with connection to safe third State (ie France)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/41/section/80B
December 3, 2022
Look at ā¦/section/80C (the five conditions) and you will see why France is not a āsafe third countryā if the immigrant has not specifically claimed for asylum there (which is the case for all those going to Calais).
December 3, 2022
section/80C …
(5)Condition 5 is that, in the claimantās particular circumstances, it would have been reasonable to expect them to have made a relevant claim to the safe third State (instead of making a claim in the United Kingdom).
December 6, 2022
āReasonable to expectā: indeed but given there is no compulsion (and probably no desire/intention to compel) from any of the states the migrants met āen routeā we get to the present situation.
December 3, 2022
They should get tents or sheds. Basic foods and nothing else, then they wouldn’t want to come. I still can’t understand why they are not being deported at the same rate as arrivals. If the law needs changing, change it or get out of or amend the ECHR/Human Rights nonsense. Are our Government clowns good at anything? Today I heard how Kent Council are overwhelmed with unaccompanied Albanian children. Why? Why aren’t they sent back to the Albanian Authorities to reunite them with their own families. This Government is simply beyond repair.
December 3, 2022
It is what we do to our own (homeless) isn’t it ?
Although they are not heard or crowded in as there are many doorways and underpssess for them to shelter. Just walk around Westminster and Whitehall like I have. Not far from where our kind host works (across Westminster Bridge) you can often find homeless people there. No Four Star Hotels for them.
December 3, 2022
Mark B Oh yes we do – we had the Empire, we told them how generous Britain and the great white Queen was and that all would be welcome in blighty – then we started the latest iraqi war and were in Afghanistan until the end – we stirred it all up so what do you expect?
December 3, 2022
Then tell them to stay at home and sort out those problems. We had to change our country over centuries. Why can’t they? Mind you with all this going on it won’t be long before the public have to take action again. At the rate our population is growing and the escalating discontent from those that live here and are paying for all this we will soon look like a 3rd world country.
December 3, 2022
Do please tell us about the war in Albania that all the Albanians are fleeing from, James. Tell us about the war in Iran we’re responsible for, or the one in Nigeria? Tell us when we invaded Somalia, Zimbabwe or the Congo. These have been among the countries where the highest numbers of ‘refugees’ to Britain originated in recent years.
December 3, 2022
It started in the middle East when Bush and Blair kicked it off but Israel was also in the mix and like the domino effect it spread to Syria, Libya, Mali, Northern Nigeria and so on – the domino effect – it gave all refugees and others the idea of going to Britain, especially with so much war and poverty going on all around them and then after brexit we find we don’t even have a say at the big table in Europe anymore.
As an aside it can be argued that the attack on the twin towers might not have happened at all except Bush was in the White House while Netanyahu was in power in Israel both at the sa me time – the extremists saw no hope for the palastinians future. It always comes back to thd Middle East and we had to go in instead of staying at home and minding our own business ‘ just like now with our political leaders going out to Ukraine playing the big shot – so are we going to involve ourselves here too?
December 3, 2022
‘IT’ ? started in the Middle East? when Bush &poodle Blur…..
‘IT’ has been going on for generations, in recent times creating Israel, oil wealth and USA have contributed to the ‘tribal’ battles.
December 3, 2022
We owe them nothing !
I would vote for a party that had this as their strapline and it should apply to more than immigrants. There are those who genuinely need our help but we do not owe them our help, we should choose to help the very small minority who need it.
I owe nobody anything.
December 3, 2022
I believe that we are the only country in the world that provides free education to work immigrants
December 3, 2022
This does not surprise me . When it comes to monitoring spending the Public Sector is absolutely useless. The NHS cannot tell you haw many of anything they have bought or how much of their budget on a service they have spent
December 3, 2022
Quite right.
These people need to be cleared out: the arrogant civil servants and the politicians that follow them
December 3, 2022
Oh!
We do actually HAVE a minister for immigration then?
I thought the whole thing sort of took care of itself!
December 3, 2022
Yes but this Jenrick guy is useless. He’ll be spending more time with his developers after next GE.
December 3, 2022
Yes, and he repeatedly broke the ‘stay at home’rules during the 2020 lockdown.
December 3, 2022
No, he took things to his parents. Would you rather he hadn’t?
December 4, 2022
If I’d taken things to my parents, travelling 100 or so miles to do it, I could have been arrested under their ludicrous rules. So yes ….. the Government he was part of made the ludicrous rules ….. and he should have therefore stuck to them.
December 3, 2022
Yeah ā¦I thought weād subcontracted UK immigration to the Albanians
December 3, 2022
Disgusting. He is extracting the urine.
Totally unfit for office.
The people of this country deserve so much better. But with all that is happening with this government it comes at no surprise.
December 3, 2022
+1
December 3, 2022
+1 I canāt believe not one single MP appointed to the home office, in an ministerial role, has never asked for that data ā¦I blame the MPs
December 3, 2022
One can only assume that if the real figures were made available they would end up with civil unrest on the streets, as they must be horrendous.
If they don’t get their A’s into gear, that situation could easily arise as the people are sick to death of all this incompetence and arrogance.
December 3, 2022
We know the answer. We keep getting told that we need immigrants to pay current pensions. Do the sums and you will find that low pay immigrants will never contribute enough to fund their own state pensions, never mind NHS, etc. . A low pay job is only beneficial to the country if it takes an existing citizen off the dole. Low pay immigrants will be a drain on the taxpayer the whole of their lives. We could train them up, but why not train a Brit? It would be a darn site cheaper overall and more beneficial to the country.
We do not owe everyone in the world a place in the UK, as this government appears to think! Especially terrorists, criminals and those who do not respect our culture and think they can live b their own laws! However, all appear to be welcomed, treated better than our own and given priority in every way!
December 3, 2022
Shirley M
+ many
December 3, 2022
Your last paragraph says it all. Why would any UK government think we have a duty to try to house the world? Especially when our recent decades of history show the immigrants largely establish communities of their own kind, culture and laws if they can get away with it.
December 3, 2022
Shirley
Agreed, not really surprised the Minister does not have a clue, but surely someone must know otherwise the overall Government spend calculations will always be wrong.
I have been saying for years, the experienced high earners and go getters are leaving, the low wage (if any wage) and unskilled are arriving, hence our GDP per person is not going up at all.
New low wage immigration is a drain on the taxpayer resources hence one of the reasons why taxes are rising.
December 3, 2022
Lets face it, the Government don’t want us to know this information. They just want the taxpayer to pay up, and stop asking awkward questions.
The truth is, the whole thing is completely out of control, and they have stopped even trying to do anything about it.
If I am still around at the next election, I will not be voting Conservative (or Labour). Maybe not vote at all, for the first time in my long life. I never thought I would see the day, when this Country was in such a mess.
December 3, 2022
Agreed, CG. They dare not release that information but we can do our own calculations! We are being deliberately deceived (and impoverished), as usual with this anti-UK anti-Brit undemocratic government! Why on earth does democracy not allow us to get rid of such a BAD (and some would say, evil) government?
December 3, 2022
Cheshire Girl, I do hope you will stick around long enough to be able to vote for Reform, the party which really cares about our country, and which has recognisable traditional conservative values. You know, the traditional conservative values which Sir John often propounds here.
https://www.reformparty.uk/
December 3, 2022
Reform, just sank in Chester, a pointless vote, if they were making the ground they claim theyād have been all over this area with a decent candidate.
Labour need not crow, people arenāt cheering them either, only around 40% bothered to vote yet Labour gave the streets a pounding and were in the local newspaper all the time. I didnāt ever see any other candidate in the paper. That is who is meant to win next time tie us into the EU unable to sign off all these trade agreements, there are enough remain Tories and government staff to delay.
December 3, 2022
+1
Do let the Tories scare you to vote for them under the Lifelogic scare you might get Labour! This lot are far worse and very much more dishonest!
Javid applied for PM a few months ago his conviction for conservatism or to prevent Labour being elected so strong he is leaving!! Remember that when Tories or LL try to scare you to vote for them. They also only want a two horse pro EU socialist race.
December 3, 2022
+1
December 3, 2022
I do not āwantā a two horse race (and both dire tax to death socialist, net zero & clearly often corrupt and dishonest parties) but that is the system that pertains.
December 3, 2022
LL,
Read what I wrote I did not write you wanted a two horse race. Your repeated line is regularly seen for all to see.
December 3, 2022
Spot-on ‘Chesire girl’ It’s all part of the cover up. I’m seeking a new political party to receive my vote.
December 3, 2022
Indeed hard to see Sunak (the major cause of inflation and the huge economic and health damage of lockdown) turning the ship round. He has started with a huge turn in totally the wrong direction.
The public want controlled and high skills immigration only, to ditch the net zero insanity, to kill government waste/corruption and serving vested interests, to ditch HS2, to stop blocking the roads and to kill the absurd war on motorists and plant food. An NHS and education system that was at least half competent would help too. Hunt too was an appalling Heath Secretary for circa 5 years. Hunt and Sunak are hugely unpopular and surely rightly so.
December 3, 2022
+1
December 3, 2022
LL,
Far simpler than that. They had to deliver Brexit putting the country first! The other parts of the manifesto would be minuscule by comparison. The country was sick of corrupt parliament trying to stop the electorate wish to leave EU in its entirety after May and her cohort dishonestly betrayed the nation.
May still in office is clear indication the betrayal will continue, as we have seen with Hunt and Snake over the last few weeks.
VDL of EU releasing very excited statements about united Ireland! Just as it did about capturing our military under their control. This should ring alarm bells for more acts of treachery from Snake and Hunt.
December 3, 2022
That’s why they keep raising taxes to pay for their mass immigration policy and benefits bill. How can raising benefits by inflation be fair when working people can only wish that figure. Then they wonder why so many are on or going on strike.. Consocialists are toast.
December 3, 2022
The Home Office released visa, asylum and immigration statistics pertaining to the year to June 2022.
These reveal a large increase in immigration since before the pandemic, with an astonishing 1.1 million visas granted for people to come and live in the UK
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/news/2022/08/25/immigration-at-all-time-record-level-with-record-1-1-million-visas-issued-to-come-and-live-in-the-uk
December 3, 2022
Pathetic as usual if they do not have estimates it is gross negligence. Likely to be more like Ā£500k in the UK I suspect. The government admit just the average hotel cost is Ā£150 per night = Ā£55k PA. Plus have extra demands on legal aid, translation services, roads and much else. If they are a minimum wage worker they will almost certainly pay less in taxes than they get back in direct benefits such as help with rents, schools, healthcareā¦so this ~ Ā£500k bill will have to be paid by other tax payers lowering over all standards of living and making work less worthwhile for them. Also by depressing wage levels they reduce the taxes paid by others and further lower overall living standards.
December 3, 2022
A recent letter from the NHS contained three pages of A4 two of the pages outlined the twenty-three languages where translation services were available.
December 3, 2022
This times by 100,000 or so in government. While many people die waiting 12 hours for an ambulance or even for any triage at A&E.
December 3, 2022
LL,
If the numbers of immigration are based on estimates everything else is pure pie in the sky as I suspect a man of maths and science would know.
December 3, 2022
I’ve never believed any immigration figure since we left the EU. We were told we had 3m EU citizens in the UK and had 6m apply for settled status. That is a LARGE error and/or the legal requirements for settled status were applied very ‘flexibly’, just like approval for asylum. We seem to authorise them all, regardless of genuine status or criminality. Maybe throw the odd one out to pretend they are doing real checks.
December 3, 2022
‘The Home Office does not hold this information.’
But, they will know exactly what they need and what it will cost for their departmental Christmas party, or do they now call it a Winterval party? A department not fit for purpose, and Jenriick.
Really Sir John, this government is well past its use by date. The cost of all your requests is known so not even a fob off but deliberate withholding of information.
December 3, 2022
BOF
Bang on the money.
December 3, 2022
+1
December 3, 2022
But they will know the square root of any other minority/ diversity perceived disadvantage. We are led by left wing fools.
December 3, 2022
Perhaps HMG does not wish to know.
December 3, 2022
āThe Home Office does not hold this information.ā
That is incredible! How can they not know? Thereās enough people arriving, and for some years now, that they must surely have the back of an envelope figure at least! Are they to be believed in their assertion of not knowing?
December 3, 2022
Sharon, they do know, they just donāt want us to know.
December 3, 2022
GOD HELP US
December 3, 2022
The title of your book springs to mind John. We Don’t Believe You. They must know but wont tell us as the figure is so high. There seems to be no progress in dealing with the current crisis. Just sit on ones bum and wait for some other government to deal with it. The problem with that is there is no other government that has a clue other than a new one in the shape of Reform.
December 3, 2022
It is our last hope. The Tory’s are woke/PC fools. Wrapped up in their warped left wing world of woke/pc mass immigration, net stupid, high taxation. We need Reform.
December 3, 2022
Unfortunately Reform will not win, and maybe not even get one MP elected. Did you see, in the recent Chester by-election, the numbers of voters who still voted Tory, and the numbers who still like Labour ?
There is no hope for England, absolutely none. Emigration is all that is left, and forgoing any state pension increases if retired and moving to Australia, New Zealand or Canada.
December 3, 2022
Political parties only get elected when they are on the telly and even then it’s a hard slog.
Even when the Greens were heavily promoted by the BBC during the 80’s and 90’s (when they had a handfull of councillors), they only managed one MP
December 3, 2022
It shows the contempt this government has for the British people
December 3, 2022
Even now, nobody wants to confront the awful truth about Britainās pandemic lockdowns
As the Chinese people protest against zero Covid, some reflection on our own awful experiences might have been expected
DOUGLAS MURRAY
Indeed not the awful truth about the fairly ineffective and dangerous vaccines coerced into people even those at no real risk. Sadiq Javid will surely be remembered for his appalling forcing of (net harm it seems) vaccines on to care workers and trying to do so for NHS workers too. Even young ones and ones who had already had Covid anyway.
December 3, 2022
The families of the UK 100,000+ dead, and the 500,000 still badly affected will say you are off your rocker, mate!
December 3, 2022
MT, the many people who’ve now seen the figures the government finally admitted to a few months ago after an FOI request – 17,500 deaths only mentioning Covid on the death certificate, all the others with one or more life-threatening morbidities – know that LL is quite correct. And that’s even before we get into vaccine harms, sorry: ‘sudden unexpected deaths’.
December 3, 2022
Well I just look at the stats. Over 200 a day excess deaths main non covid that is circa 80k PA plus it should be below average after the Covid death bulge too. Many are young and so far more quality years lost (than to covid) due to NHS failures, delays, non treatments and Vaccine damage.
December 3, 2022
Jenrick might just as well have written “Eff off Sir John.” Because that’s what he, and the Officials who wrote this reply for him, really meant.
And it’s what the entire Blu-Green-Socialist Government has been saying for the past 3 years to the Conservative/conservative voters which gave it an 80 seat majority. And now they’re surprised that we are.
December 3, 2022
I suggest Sir John now puts this question to The Office of Budget Responsibility which sees itself and is widely seen as God-like on all matters concerning finance and financial forecasting which must surely be significantly influenced by the number of immigrants coming into this country!
December 3, 2022
I suggest this question and reply is posted by Reform through every constituent’s letter box in 2 years time. Certainly in Jenrick’s constituency.
December 3, 2022
Obtaining any such numbers from the OBR would be revealing if accurate, but they would squirm and avoid replying at all costs.
OBR estimates and forecasts are nearly always misleading, yet if they were compelled to provide a figure in this case one wonders in which direction they would risk going. Their output is irresponsible anyway and even the word āResponsibilityā in their title deceives.
Maybe an Office of Boat Refugees would do a better OBR job as Ministry of Truth.
December 3, 2022
What a pointless question and it got the answer it deserved. An immigrant of my acquaintance has been here a number of years and contributed an estimated half a million pounds in income tax alone. This false narrative that immigrants take British workers jobs is yet another lie associated with all the other falsehoods linked to Brexit which now appears to be regretted by the majority. I know a number of EU migrants who came here to pick up skills and learn the language and, because of freedom of movement, returned home thinking the UK is wonderful. We have lost that benefit and it is proving difficult to regain. Paul
December 3, 2022
Paul, was your immigrant friend and illegal immigrant?
I know lots of immigrants who came with skills legally and contribute.
December 3, 2022
What planet are you from? Where are there any stats to back up your opinions. Why are you still here? Go live in the EU. I don’t want their Bill’s or costs.
December 3, 2022
Timeaction
Do your research before you write such nonsense. Paul is right
December 3, 2022
they could have stayed – 6m chose to.
December 3, 2022
Paul. Nobody has a problem with legal immigration if they work, pay taxes and provide for themselves and their family. It’s those that are an unknown factor that are bleeding the taxpayer dry whilst then, in many cases gong on to join gangs abd commit crimes or languishing at our expens. There’s also the problem of services and homes which are already overstretched. You are a fool if you overlook these issues because the future isn’t looking good. What part of unknown people do you find palatable? We have areas where many immigrants settle where TB is on the rise. Other diseases are being brought in too. At what cost?
December 3, 2022
I gave up data mining these written questions long ago. A minister is never going to disclose any data that could be used against him by the opposition or the tabloid media. JR has submitted 287 questions since Boris started as PM, with little gained.
https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions?SearchTerm=&DateFrom=01%2F12%2F2019&DateTo=28%2F04%2F2023&AnsweredFrom=&AnsweredTo=&House=Commons&MemberId=14&Answered=Any&Expanded=True
December 3, 2022
Some people need to run a couple of miles every day to keep fit, some others have to fill one question every working day to prove they still exist. Frankly I am not sure what good it does to the Wokingham constituency, and to the food, petrol, rate, tax bills of his constituents.
December 3, 2022
If the government will not admit how much taxpayers’ money it’s spending on accommodating the Channel invaders, I as one of Sir John ‘s constituents think it’s important to know that. How else can it be shown that a government is hiding the truth, but by asking questions which they refuse to answer informatively?
December 3, 2022
30/03/2022 migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk āThe fiscal impact of immigration in the UKā
Next update is scheduled for 03/2024.
All these figures are available in various reports to which Sir John is very likely to have (had?) access as a MP. One can wonder whether he, with his multiple repeated questioning, is simply playing to the gallery.
Reply Try answering my important questions if you are so well informed. Your pathetic attempts to defend the indefensible will not stop the rest of us probing a policy which is very unpopular and bad for the legitimate asylum seekers as well.
December 3, 2022
That is one immigrant – there were nearly 800,000 last year – if they all contribute that much tax then I can stop paying any tax instead of seeing my bill go up.
December 3, 2022
‘contribute that much tax’ …stop it my sides are killing me with laughter
December 3, 2022
A pointless question that got the answer it deserved. We have examples of immigrants who contributed greatly to our country and some who have not – averaging the numbers is not a useful exercise and your figure of 250,000 Euros does nothing to forward what is a complex and worldwide problem. I am more concerned about the number of EU nurses, doctors, vets, hospitality workers, have drivers, fruit pickers who contributed so much and have now been banished.
December 3, 2022
Paul
We can all find special examples, no matter what the subject, but what we need to know, is what the overall result/effect is, and in this case is it a plus for the economy and treasury, or a minus.
Do you have the real answer, if so please do let the treasury know, because with all of their information at their disposal, they do not seem to have any idea.
GDP per person is the Clue !
December 3, 2022
At minimum wages they are a direct cost in health, housing, education costs. Are you wilfully blind?
December 3, 2022
Timeaction
Do your homework
December 3, 2022
@Bill
Minimum wage approx Ā£9.50 x 40 x 52= Ā£19,760 per annum.
NI and Tax thresholds are Ā£12,570 so tax = Ā£1,438 and NI = Ā£992 (we won’t count Employers’ NI as they would have to pay that whoever they employed.) Total tax = Ā£2,430. Council tax Ā£1,500 (having been given a three bedroomed house), VAT and duties Ā£1,500 (assuming they drink and smoke).
So that individual is contributing Ā£5,430.
Public sector expenditure 2022 = Ā£1,058,000,000,000
UK population 2020 67,800,000 so it costs Ā£15,604 per person to run our country.
There are 12,000,000 pensioners (let’s say 6,000,000 still work) and 14,200,000 school aged children and 3,000,000 people unable to work so the rest of the population needs to contribute Ā£1,058,000 / 44,600,000 to be a net contributor or Ā£23,700 to pay their way.
Now many of our resident brethren and sisters do not make a net contribution it is true but why would we want to import more people who contribute Ā£18,000 less than we need while we have unemployment and school leavers who could work?
How was my homework?
December 4, 2022
billy wont reply NS
He is just a pro EU troll
December 3, 2022
No-one was banished. EU immigrants were invited to remain in the UK and 6 million chose to do so. Funnily enough, the Home Office thought there were only 3 million here. Sheer incompetence or deliberate under-counting? I know which I think.
Highly skilled immigrants – from the EU or elsewhere – are still welcome here. It’s the low-skilled, taxpayer subsidy-demanding ones we don’t want …… or the criminals the Government is ferrying-in every day across the channel.
December 3, 2022
Actually, we were told by government there were a million here from the EU. It was the immigrants themselves who decided they were “The Three Million.” Then we found out, as you say, they were six and half million. I think quite a lot came in at the last minute to get the permanent residence.
December 3, 2022
Paul
I volunteer at a migrant and refugee organisation.
A lot of the EU people, once pushed to fill in their right to remain forms, are now working or continuing to learn English. Remember, some EU citizens had lived and worked here for decades. My nephewās Spanish mother-in-law, over 30 years.
Non-EU – a large variety of countries of origin- are desperate to learn English. Some are doing part time work that doesnāt need perfect English, one or two are doing volunteer work themselves. The Ukrainian refugees are the same, some work, some do not. Most of the females who come to our classes have working spouses.
But! They are all legal, are keen to integrate and are desperate to learn English!
We are complaining about mass numbers of people who do not want to integrate, and the Albanians who are openly coming to join criminal gangs. Thatās what we are grumbling about.
December 3, 2022
Our incompetent Government should have a ready reckoner for every visa applicant to cost their health, education, dependents costs, housing and any other bespoke costs, whether it be worker or student to ensure they are NO burden whatsoever to the English taxpayer. Like any other sensible Government would do (America/Australia etc). They would also ensure that any health costs are recovered from their insurances they they must have before being granted a visa, like any other sensible Government. Unfortunately we don’t have sensible Governments, just the useless legacies who think English taxpayers should pay for the world or anyone that chips up here. Foreign Aid/boat people?
December 3, 2022
If he had given an answer like that during his short commercial career he would have been out on his ear.
” Go and bloody well find out laddie!!!”
December 3, 2022
His answer shows the contempt this pretendy conservative holds for real conservatives. How dare we question their mass migration policy that means we all suffer the consequences of less health, housing, education provision, higher taxes. Congestion, building on our greenbelt, culture and values. What’s it got to do with us? We need Reform.
December 3, 2022
I expect the cost needs to be obtained from each separate government department. You also have the additional cost of money being sent abroad to fund the arrival of other family members.
I expect our government is pandering to big business lobbying who want cheap labour, subsides by us the taxpayer. We all know from history that innovation happens when human labour is in short supply.
December 3, 2022
Uncosted immigration to go alongside uncosted public sector pensions and net zero. Why donāt ministers commission the answers if this stuff does not exist?
You should follow this up and ask the ministers if they intend to make these estimates. The OBR could then add them to their models!
It would also be helpful to know how much we lose when top-rate taxpayers (now Ā£125k) emigrate, the overall cost for asylum seekers and other migratory groups like students. Do they monitor the incomes of people leaving and arriving in the country?
December 3, 2022
Such a vague reply:- The Home Office does not āholdā this information.
Do they have access to it, has any computation ever been done, are they aware of any computations from other departments or elsewhere? If they have not done any computation then it is surely gross negligence so why not? How do they define āholdā. Does he mean the home office chooses not to āholdā such information for political reasons?
December 3, 2022
@Lifelogic
Yep.
I would expect financial information to be held by HM Treasury.
December 3, 2022
…. and maybe the OBR hasd access to this specific information to assist it in making its forecasts …. but then again, maybe it doesn’t.
December 3, 2022
Just another way to embarrass the government into more action. What difference will an answer make to reducing the influx? Nothing. We know itās too much. Just more bureaucracy.
December 3, 2022
So all the claims the Government says about immigrants making a net contribution to the country is a lie, for if they can’t tell you the basic infrastructure costs of homing immigrants, all the rest they say about them making contribution is a fabrication. It also rubbishes all the claims made by the OBR etc who equate mass immigration with growth.
December 3, 2022
Spot on Iain, excellent point
December 3, 2022
But mass immigration does lead to growth – growth of charities servicing them, growth of building companies, growth of solicitors fees, growth of education and heath need, growth of house prices, more rents paid more services provided.
Unfortunately the free stuff that is being provided needs to come from the same pot as that which provides for the general population so the per head amount is grossly reduced. What that means in practice – 11 hour ambulance waits. No houses for those who need them, not enough school places etc, MORE TAX stolen from us and higher inflation.
The quality of our restaurants and food on offer has improved though so that is at least something.
December 3, 2022
Iain
That is a brilliant point !!
December 3, 2022
It is most likely that the information is too toxic for public release. I am forced to conclude that this government and its civil service have no intention of resolving the immigration crisis. I can accept that we have a moral obligation to many Afghanis, Hong Kong Chinese, Ghurkas, and Ukranians. Baring in mind that the problems bringing these people to the UK came together causing a bounce in numbers. In addition they a likely to quickly become self sufficient and a positive asset. We need to produce acceptable clarity around the categories we need like doctors and nurses. Time they can stay, dependants they can bring with them etc. Finally the illegals, embeded and still damp from the Channel must go. As this involves changing the international protocols we adhere to it needs to be done with despatch.
December 3, 2022
Of course they have no intention of solving the immigration crisis. They are implementing Agenda 2030 …. and that requires the levelling down of wealthy western nations through various methods:
1. Importing poor immigrants who will be subsidised by British taxpayers and will transfer money acquired here to their extended families “back home.”
2. The “Foreign Aid” racket
3. Taxpayer funded contributions to Charity-Quangos who are implementing the UN/WEF objectives
December 3, 2022
+ many Donna. They care absolutely nothing for Brits. We are just useful idiots and cash cows, and the remainers, wokies, oil and climate protesters are the most useful idiots of all. They actively assist the politicians to destroy democracy and our freedoms and encourage politicians to impose totalitarianism upon us. Democracy is our ONLY protection against unpatriotic politicians but some people are so short sighted they would throw it away because democracy gave the ‘wrong’ result (for them).. Democracy has already been sidelined and ignored, but hopefully the next GE will be fair and above board. If not, we are well and truly snookered!
December 3, 2022
If the Home Office does not hold the information then who does? Money cannot disappear into a black hole with no accountability, can it?
December 3, 2022
Whether the children are children of work immigrants or asylum / refugees, every school in the land will record that fact, and the associated costs can be easily assigned
The same data is recorded by our prison service and NHS ā¦and no doubt the local government
December 3, 2022
Oh danny, don’t be so naive!
December 3, 2022
There appears to be a growing number of scarlet fever cases developing in Dover Walmer and Deal – why could that be?
December 3, 2022
Major. My thoughts exactly
December 3, 2022
An honest answer would of course provided ammunition for HMG to be attacked – rightly so. HMG is all too willing to throw our hard earned taxes on anything they deserves it but gives no benefit back!
The bottomless pit that absorbs the money spent on immigrants well being would pay for so many other things – and should have done. Everything from new/extra buses to cheaper petrol…. but no, HMG have their dictated priorities and we are bottom of that list.
Given we know how many immigrants arrive, we could put an arbitrary conservative figure of Ā£100 per day – giving: 100 x 500,000 x 365 = Ā£18,250,000,000 PA, minimum.
We should publicise this figure to make them give us the actual cost of our stupid welcoming attitude.
December 3, 2022
Can you not ask the Minister to request they work out the figures for him, so he can report them to Parliament and that he ensures in the future they hold this information?
December 3, 2022
@ Wanderer (have you cut the RNLI taxi service out of your Will yet?) – A good point but would not the answer be something like: –
” My Right Honourable friend makes a good point and it is of course something the Government will consider in any future review. For the present however I regret there is no spare capacity available to undertake such work and it is not at all clear if the costs, were they incurred, could yield sufficient benefit to Ministers to make it worthwhile.”
December 3, 2022
The Home Office will not be holding this information because it is simply not required. Mrs. May signed us up to the UNās Global Compact for regular migration and hence keeping these figures will not change the policy for the UK to become a āworld majority countryā.
BTW, it is insufficient to ask simply about the costs for providing ā(a) housing, (b) school places, (c) health services and (d) transport capacityā.
What about the costs of additional policing, judiciary and prisons?
And economic migrants are not necessarily cultural migrants.
December 3, 2022
The coming Labour government will do no better, but at least we will be rid of people like Jenrick.
Regrettably people like Javid are already going.
December 3, 2022
Javid going ?
So what ?
December 3, 2022
Mark Steyn calls him, āso what Javid!ā
December 3, 2022
The only thing that Labour has in their favour is that theyāre not dishonest about the levels of immigration
December 3, 2022
Quite outrageous.
December 3, 2022
Why do you find it bizarre they won’t answer ? They are pursuing a policy of uncontrolled immigration and they don’t want to publish any facts which might help the opponents of that. Indeed you yourself supported Truss who had increased immigration as one of the elements of her growth package so you can’t just position yourself as a neutral observer.
December 3, 2022
We have had on average, a net increase in population of more than 200,000 a year over the devcade of the last census. The latest figures showing that there were 503,000 net arrivals in the last year, resulting in a total increase in population of almost 3m during the lifetime of this government. I suspect that the real figure is considerably larger.
Is it any wonder that public services, housing, and everything else we have to provide is under the greatest strain?
December 3, 2022
At last! It might not be fit for purpose but like a stopped clock it can be right on occasion. A clear, concise and believable answer from the Home Office! Wonders will never cease.
The fact no information is held is of course proof that the Home Office and whole Government does not care what the true answer might be. It is simply not relevant to them.
December 3, 2022
Needed and unwanted immigration are two very different things . Our system of assessment should be sharpened up at the point of entry . There is no room now for a soft hearted approach .
December 3, 2022
Our useless government has gone completely rogue!
December 3, 2022
Well they donāt appear to represent the conservative voter, the conservative backbench MP, nor their publish manifesto ā¦.if it were a company, its shareholders would demand the whole board of directors resign
December 3, 2022
I dread to think what this country will he like in another decade.
Population out of control.
Public services totally broken.
Wages far below true cost of living.
Ghetto communities.
Taxes through the roof.
WOKE ideals being law.
Need I go on?
This Government still does not grasp that the UK cannot help every single ‘hard luck’ case in the World. By trying to doing so, they slowly buckle the UK.
We should certainly not be giving away any money or ‘freebies’ to those that arrive illegally from safe countries.
They should be immediately deported. Until this deterrent is finally in place, the numbers will never drop.
However, it is very clear this Government has no desire to do so. Talking about what they want to do, and hiding behind various rules and laws that supposedly stop them taking action.
They were quick enough to introduce laws during Covid, but are pedestrian in comparison when bringing in laws and policies to deal with Illegal migration.
December 3, 2022
+1 the problem is that we just haven’t got a conservative government – plain and simple
December 3, 2022
A pertinent question to the government. The reply shows the governments utter disregard for those who are concerned about the effects that immigration is having.
It looks very clear that the political class has an agenda of deliberately shipping in illegal immigrants and admitting numerous legal immigrants too. The fact they have no estimates of the cost, shows their agenda comes first and the cost is of no consideration to them. One can only conclude this is to spite the British people who want no more immigration, and who suffer the impact of it.
December 3, 2022
As we see with Net Zero, where no cost benefit analysis has been done .
December 3, 2022
Couldnāt we issue a National Insurance number indicating whether youāre a born citizen, naturalised citizen, work immigrant, asylum seeker or refugee ā¦oh it already does ā therefore recording and estimating associated costs are quite straightforward
December 3, 2022
So the rumours are true then! Sir Humphrey still runs the Government and OUR country.
December 3, 2022
So, presumably there will be a follow-on question to ask WHY the HO doesn’t hold this information.
This is of major interest to the voting public, the HO must begin to calculate and publish this as a matter of urgency.
When you consider that some British people pay tax all their lives… just to fund the arrival of one migrant. It brings into sharp focus Hunt/Sunak’s recent tax hikes.
December 3, 2022
This capital cost does not seem to be included in the models which apparently calculate that immigration is a net benefit. Only ongoing costs and benefits are included in the models, with no initial lump sum to pay for.
How much is it? I guess you could add up the value of all infrastructure in the country and divide it by 67 million. I don’t know what that would come to, maybe about a million each?
December 3, 2022
A very good interview on GB News today 3/12 on the Saturday Morning with Esther McVey and Philip Davies programme with Robert Jenrick. Good questioning by Esther & Philip. ( See GB News + Youtube + Esther & Philip – it’s available to view )
December 3, 2022
On that show Robert Jenrick MP confirmed that 40% of students don’t leave after their course
December 3, 2022
I didn’t believe a word Robert Jenrick MP said ….your party is lost
December 3, 2022
and then bring in the family.
December 3, 2022
and they don’t leave either
December 3, 2022
O/T: āFakers, fast sign-ups and fraud: the crisis at the UKās Companies Houseā, Guardian, 03/12/2022.
Why should we be surprised that hundreds of dubious companies suddenly appeared on the register in Spring 2020 as PPE and Covid test providers? One might have thought that the Government, MPs and CSs would have been aware of the possibility of such fraud. Were they aware or were they āall in it togetherā?
December 3, 2022
these opportunist companies still needed ‘ friends’.
December 3, 2022
May I suggest a follow up question?
To ask the Minister, given the large deficit this country is running and the increase in taxes that his government is seeking are there any plans to collect this information?
As an example, Hillingdon Council in 2012-13 were very proud that they were investing Ā£180 million into new schools to increase the number of places. The resident population was not having more children so those Ā£180 million of additional places were not for the current incumbents and legacy Council Tax payers.
December 3, 2022
Hillingdon and Heathrow — almost conjoined twins.
December 3, 2022
Privatise the profits (of the immigrant’s employer) and socialise the losses. Where have I heard that before?
December 3, 2022
It would be of interest to me, for a current project, to know how many of you neoliberal armchair capitalists (Thatcherites), who regularly comment on this site; are dependant on both State Pension benefits and Non-State Pension Benefits (DWP Welfare payments), for your continued existence?
December 3, 2022
Not I (but I live in hope, why work when you can shirk).
December 3, 2022
mind your own business !
December 3, 2022
Just so I know, am I one of your āneoliberal armchair capitalist (Thatcherite)ā? š¤ Are you just making up ātypesā?
If I am,
A) not dependent on State pension benefits got to wait another ten years for mine, if they donāt get rid of them by then, by which time incidentally I will have been working 50 years and paying NI every year without any gaps.
B) no welfare payments ever.
December 4, 2022
State pensions are not welfare acorn
35 years of NI contributions are required
December 3, 2022
Cyprus deported 70% of its illegal migrants.
Clearly some inside the Government want this.
December 3, 2022
Yeah but Cyprus hasnāt the same number of UK enlighten politicians
December 3, 2022
It’s the Tory government, its administration and global and EU belief to change and destroy Uk, and in particular, English identity; they are happy with all immigration,legal or otherwise. While this goes on they claim the opposite with lies.
December 3, 2022
The House of Lords answered your question a few years ago. Perhaps Lord Green of Deddington can help the Minister and the famous modellers can bring the answer up to date.