Have the Government ascertained that there is enough old steel and metal around for the recycling facility? Do their wider plans for steel in the United Kingdom include retaining capacity to produce new steel?
My right hon. Friend is always absolutely hot on these topics. There is enough steel, because we export so much of it and we can now use it on the site. Considering the age of the current furnaces, the reality is that electric arc furnaces are, within the timescale, the best way for us to transition. There is of course a supply chain in place that enabled Tata to put the business plan forward, for it to commit a substantial amount of money, and for us to support its plan.
CommentĀ Ā Others took up this issue in the exchanges. There is a need for the UK to retain capacity to make new steel, and not to be limited to just producing remelted old steel. The UK needs to have the capacities to make new steel and to be able to transform that steel with alloys into the specialist products needed for advanced manufacturing.
Comment. In a subsequent exchange the Minister accepted the need to keep blast furnace capacity somewhere in England. Others pressed the point that we will need some new steel as well as recycled. There are still issues about the supply of domestic scrap to Port Talbot when the arc furnaces are operating.
Comments are closed.
September 24, 2023
To produce new steel we need coal so that will have to go. Scrap reworked steel has only limited use.
September 24, 2023
Spot on. A sustainable steel industry is a very heavy user of energy which needs to be as low cost as possible, to compete with the major steel producing countries committed to fossil fuels, and to avoid constant demands by whatās left of the UK steel industry for ongoing subsidies. āTransitioningā the steel industry is a sickening charade being acted by a political class that thinks that those who elect them are taken in by their simplistic statements.
September 24, 2023
+1
September 25, 2023
Agreed.
September 24, 2023
The thing about scrap metal is that it is impure. New steel and its content can be controlled to produce different types of steel for different purposes.
Chinese steel is not known for its quality and consistency.
September 24, 2023
Absolutely Mark – but I do wonder if these people simply think “Steel is Steel isn’t it?”
Well not if you want to make aerospace components, medical equipment or just about any other advanced technology. I have a well equipped workshop and will happily demonstate the difference between turning a length of scrap rebar versus EN1A (Leaded) steel for example. One would looking like a ploughed field and the other shiny bright. Of course i couldn’t harden that EN1A (because it’s low carbon) nor would I try to weld it. Metals are a complex subject (especially for an amateur) and I suspect some of the people making these decisions know even less about it than I do.
September 24, 2023
Agreed, we are sacrificing our steel industry on the alter of Net Zero.
September 24, 2023
We’re sacrificing our manufacturing industries and much more on the alter of net zero. The only way to stop this is to elect different parties as the shower in Westminster are all committed to bankrupting this nation in their beliefs. They think that manufacturing goods in China, transport it here saves CO2 production. You couldn’t make up that stupidity.
September 24, 2023
Yes Iain, We are sacrificing all of our industry in the push to destroy our country by our so called āGreen ā enemies!
September 24, 2023
Once again this tory government not being honest about the costs of net-zero, and their future import plans ….all hail china, all hail the UN
September 24, 2023
I struggle to understand the āplanā.
What?
Do they require us to surrender our NHS saucepans for melting?
Not that I banged a single, solitary item. (Imagine! The nonsense!).
But Iāve got an old sink that the council refuses to take.
They can have that!
September 24, 2023
A new area at the local Tip ‘Stainless steel’.
September 24, 2023
Nusrat Ghani, Minister for Investment Security does not seem remotely suitable for this job. Rather like most of Sunakās ill qualified ministers.
Forcing people to switch to electric arc steel furnaces is another a huge government error like net zero and HS2. So Boris, Osborne & Cameron are against this long over due HS2 row back I assume as it show them up for supporting and funding this Lord Adonis lunacy. The project was insane from the very outset. Surely only driven by Corruption and Vested interest few other explanations.
September 24, 2023
I think that the govt. is giving ( well WE are giving ) a vast amount of money (Ā£500 million) to make the change. AND PT will be laying off many, many workers.
I thought that business=capitalism and capitalists make their own investments?
Silly, naive old me!
September 24, 2023
+1 taxes being used to destroy and export jobs for a mad religion – great plan!
September 24, 2023
Prob like this electric furnace business.
HS2 HUGE virtue signal to all the nonsense.
Never mind all the trees etc destroyed. ( Well actually they donāt like trees anyway soā¦)
HS2 is supposed to be Zero whatever and a symbol of speeding towards 2050 and Zero carbon.
Or some such tosh.
Anyway I reckon that was why they embarked on that particular wrecking scheme.
September 24, 2023
Correct. Looking at her bio on Wiki she, like my Tory MP, has never worked in the private sector. Only charities and government jobs. I am sure she is a good MP and admin person, but whilst she remains in a government that is actively seeking to completely de-industrialise the UK and send all our jobs to China and India (where she originally came from) I will not hold out much hope.
September 24, 2023
Long interview with Dame Jenny Harries: Weāll behave more like Sweden when the next pandemic hits.
Strangely no mention of the circa 100,000 (net harm) vaccine killed or seriously injured for no sensible or rational reason. Why did government employ such duff deluded experts and ignore and even rubbish the sensible ones.
September 24, 2023
Of course the next pandemic may be very different perhaps harming the young rather than the old, being spread in different ways, with better treatments available, or perhaps vaccines that are “safe and effective” might be developed more quickly. We will need to judge on the facts at the time which may well be very different.
Foolish to judge in advance but we can safely say they got all the big decisions wrong on Covid. It was almost certainly a lab leak, the vaccines did net harm and should certainly never have been coerced into the young or children, lock down did net harm, test and trace was a rip off sick joke as were the unused Nightingale Hospitals.
September 24, 2023
Plus some simple and cheap treatments, that clearly worked, were actively denied to people (one assumes as they preferred to push the vaccine instead). If some died who would have lived so be it.
September 24, 2023
It was part of the TENs (EU) project to connect all of Europe. Shows the calibre of our current crowd in Westminster.
September 24, 2023
+1
September 24, 2023
LL – your last sentence which I quote – “Surely only driven by Corruption and Vested interest few other explanations”.
This could be applied in MANY instances. We the people are continuously lied to.
September 24, 2023
Almost all Government initiatives to subsidise industry, have turned out to be wrong, and it sounds as if this is just such another.
September 24, 2023
Some ministers seem unaware that their actions risk slowly unravelling modern life…
Thank you, Sir John, for challenging this with your questions.
September 24, 2023
Good morning.
Energy, energy, energy ! We need energy. Both in industry and government. We need people that believe in Britain and not some hoax / SCAM that a trace gas is going to destroy the planet unless we send all our manufacturing capacity to China, India, Brazil and elsewhere.
The Conservative Party looks more and more like the Mad Hatters Tea Party every day.
September 24, 2023
+1 they need full 180 degree U turns on nearly every issue, start will net zero, HS2, the far too many duff degrees, tax levels, the size of the state, the state of the police, NHS, defenceā¦
Instead they want to piss about with A levels, force people who do not want to to sturdy maths and english to 18 and ban young people buying cigarettes for life. Yet hard drugs and indeed shoplifting are, in effect, legalised.
September 24, 2023
there has been this strange idea that forcing 2 more years from 16 on ‘students’ who have already given up on maths, english and the sciences is bound to reap rewards of improvement.
Why doesn’t the effort, the cost and probable success get focussed in junior school where young minds have not got turned against education and its resultant failed exams.?
By 16 it is all rather late.
September 24, 2023
I totally agree with you Mark B the enemy is within!
September 24, 2023
Strategically we need new steel of which one component is carbon of which we have a sufficiency such that we are intent on burying it. We also have coal should gaseous CO2 prove unsuitable. All it would seem we need to invest in is some replacement blast furnaces. Yes if there is a demand for steel from scrap we need electric arc furnaces. Good place to site a couple of SMRs and start an industry scrapping shipping past its sell by date. The strategic need, I accept can be subsidised by government ( Us Taxpayers). That for which there is a commercial market is down to the company to invest.
September 24, 2023
Was the complete lifecycle for the process and usage presented and debated? I understand there are alternatives for parts of the process, eg H2 instead of coal for reduction and I suppose you could use biochar or old tyres instead of coal for the necessary carbon. But how does the overall process work and what are the supply chain and recycling requirements, economics and logistics – is there enough material available in the right quantities at the right time?
September 24, 2023
To make weapons you need steel. As was shown in WW2 and currently in Ukraine industrial might is essential. Steel is a security issue.
September 24, 2023
So is self sufficiency in energy but our lot think we should import some of ours from Europe by interconnectors instead of being self sufficient. Remember the French quite recently were going to stop electricity supply to Jersey unless they got their way on fishing licences. The legacies don’t understand or practice national interest as witnessed by the Windsor Agreement, the EU, sell out, trade agreement and all its catches, fishing rights and thew Ā£38 billion bung to the EU for ………nothing.
We really do need change, we’re way past being sold out. Sir John complains enough but IT’S HIS GOVERNMENT and he has no influence either to stop these fools.
September 24, 2023
Reaching high melting points pulls heavily on energy.
Overloading electrical capacity risks blowing its fuse.
September 24, 2023
as we approach the Election the fuses will blow one after another by the Electorate.
Sadly the PM, Cabinet and CCHQ have no clue as to where the consumer unit is.
September 24, 2023
As usual you have a lot to say, you ask the questions, but it amounts to nothing.
Time for change and I don’t mean Starmer
September 24, 2023
I have no confidence in ministerial replies on this subject.
It would appear that they don’t care that much that Britain should be able to produce it’s own goods — But just think about this reliance on China, and what will happen when HMG bans all cargo boats! This is set out most clearly in HMG’s netzero consultation paper.
September 24, 2023
The biggest issue is actually what happens when sanctions are in place on China (as would happen if, for example, they were to invade Taiwan).
N.B. We would also lose AMD as one of the world’s two major chip suppliers in that scenario.
September 24, 2023
Either way, it would be back to the dark ages, but my scenario would be darker
September 24, 2023
The government with its risible and damaging “net zero” policies has all but cleared out the steel industry in Britain.
September 24, 2023
I am no scientist but I believe that we must retain the capacity to produce steel . Steel is a basic requirement for many industrial activities and it would be a major mistake to lose this within our range of production . Like all organisations there are good ones and not so good ones ; Tata should be investigated to determine whether its efficiency can be improved to a suitable international level – the sooner the better .
September 24, 2023
Will you be asking your government why they are going to be levying a Ā£15,000 fine for each petrol car sold ?
September 24, 2023
Fines, coercion, compulsion & threats to make criminals of us all for not adhering to their obscene diktat is the ‘go to’ method of control by these morons and fanatics. Our very own EU style Infraction Procedure. We probably don’t know the half of it although perhaps increasingly more than they would like us to know. They’ve tied us up and signed us up to heaven knows how much regulation & legislation & will not stop. They can’t. Loss of face is just a small part of it. The rest more sinister.
September 24, 2023
Do people in government know anything about metallurgy or manufacturing steel products? Do they know the difference between black steel and bright steel? Clearly not. Do they imagine all our production capability is now safely under third world ownership so they can continue to blather in parliament and do nothing when asked a technological question?
September 24, 2023
Why are people getting so upset about not being able to produce stee?
In future the majority of people will live in 15 minute cities and get state authorised transport. Only those in Government who make the important decisions will need cars. Those who do make money can buy expensive cars and pay the expensive car tax.
In the the future being happy will be a distant memory in the minds of old people and the Government will employ disinformation officers to erase false ideas that people were happy in the past.
Democracy will be suspended in a state of emergency about the climate. The fact tempretures have not risen will be evidence the Government is doing everything they can to save the people.
September 24, 2023
Hey Javelin
Take heart. It will not come to pass.
More and more see it.
It’s a communication thing.
It’s definately not a R versus L thing.
Good communicators are cool, assured and they know their message will prevail.
September 24, 2023
The Online Harms Bill will give the government to power to censor the internet and prevent uncomfortable truths. We already see this with the removal of videos concerning MASS IMMIGRATION.
September 24, 2023
This is totally unbelievable!!! We have a Government that is so stupid, it’s hard to understand what is going on!
Never has there been a more important time to challenge their thinking, by MP’s with even just half an idea!
Some important idea’s embedded in the comment of IanT above, and other’s; Energy, Energy, Energy,…
This is an important time in which to the point out; Is Tata Steel thinking of it’s interest, or of British Interest? And, the answer is obvious! Tata does not want to make the investment in new Ore Furnaces, and Opencast! Going for the cheaper, with less commitment, Subsided, Electric Arc! Raising the idea of a Recycling Economy with impressionable Ministers! This is wrong, not in Britain Interest! British Interest; We need to build, from the ground up, Added Value, making as many People more productive and wealthier! Not on Benefits, because they can see themselves better off!
This will not only destroy large number of Peoples livelihoods, but make Britain dependent on India and Chinese Imports of Virgin Steel, Specialist Steels, and Scrap!
What we really need is an mayor investment plan in new Ore (Virgin Steel) Furnaces, Opencast for coking coal, and a Cheap Energy Strategy! Fracking would be a good contribution!
Anything else, would be a failure of Government, and the Political Establishment, not getting to the Truth!
Try your best; talk to all that will listen!
Wish you all the best!
Regards,
RDM.
September 24, 2023
RDM, I disagree with you. We have a government that is so stupid, it’s pretty easy to see what’s going on. The government has been told to wreck the country’s prosperity in the name of the Net Zero creed and Build Back Better. It’s dumbly following orders from globalist billionaires and their head honchos without questioning them. Only when some Tory MPs start to worry about getting re-elected does a faint flicker of the self-preservation instinct stir in what’s left of their intellect, but by now it’s rather too late, I fear.
September 24, 2023
“There is enough steel, because we export so much of it…”
Two obvious points of logic seem to follow:
1. If we’re recycling what we’re producing, then… we need to keep producing it?
2. However… if we’re exporting it, then it’s no longer ours to recycle?
The answers here don’t suggest that any rational thought processes have been deployed.
September 24, 2023
There seem to be too few people in government with any technical or manufacturing knowledge and experience. Does the minister actually understand what steel is, the nature of the demand for mild steel and for particular steel alloys and how they are best made? I don’t know her background but right across the Government this kind of knowledge of manufacturing and construction is lacking and the minister seems on the face of it to be yet another one..
September 24, 2023
I suggest you look at her Wiki page. I did. What you will see won’t come as a surprise. Typical modern MP.
September 24, 2023
PDG – Summed up perfectly. They are ALL career politicians. Jobs for the boys and girls and a nice index linked pension. I do not trust any of them and just think there are 650 of them!!!!!
September 24, 2023
Was listening to Americast (?) the other night on R4.
It’s REALLY, REALLY excruciating in it’s attempt to be hip.
Which is good because it clearly demonstrates how out of touch the
“establishment” are.
I detected a shift though. I think even they are catching on.
Also marianna was firmly sidelined.
p.s I think R4 is great ( on the whole ).
September 24, 2023
Boris or Cummings had a band of boys who had spent too much time watching the Thick of It.
Not cool, silent operators.
Labour don’t do that but they haven’t on the whole got the bigger picture. thing.
You don’t need superbrains you just need to see the good v evil.
September 24, 2023
Just put the cost on the pleb and joe blogs bill.
September 24, 2023
Religions teach moral codes. Young people are very moral ( without religion ) Media make out another story.
Most Con MPs are in my opinion without morals
I exclude Rishi, Suella and Pritti who come from religious backgrounds and a few others.
Labour are ok moral wise they just havent seen the bigger picture re whats going on.
Some men are groomed when young because of their pretty face by old sad gits.
This sets them on a narrow path from which they should break free.
September 24, 2023
The Bush Presidents claimed strong religious conviction and influenced Blur to join in the mass media deceit.
Then they unleashed ‘Shock and Awe’
..need any more?
September 24, 2023
Fine. But how do you win the next general election ? Sun readers are being told that shop keepers are now turning to hired muscle rather than the police in Tory Britain. How long before mafia protection racketeers take over our high streets ?
September 24, 2023
There is security at my local. Back in the day, 70’s and 80′, when things were really tough, but not as tough just after the last war, there were no security guards. People on the whole, despite their deprivations, were more honest.
September 24, 2023
Police weren’t attired like robo-cop. Shop assistants didn’t need bodyguards and personal security cameras. Banks and betting shops didn’t have shutters on them – even some Kentucky restaurants look like Fort Knox.
Oh. And you can literally be eaten alive in the street if some chav decides to set his dog on you.
September 24, 2023
Another attack upon us by this rotten government!
Is the plan that when we have no industry left from which to earn a living we must rejoing the E.U. to then live of German hand-outs?
September 25, 2023
German handouts?Have you seen the state of the German economy?As an illustration of German’s irrelevance on the world stage,look at the footage of Scholtz’s address to the UNGA last week and observe the size of the audience for Scholtz’s address to the UNGA.A handful of people.
September 24, 2023
I recall we were promised a coal mine and extraction in Cumbria. Where are we with that? Guess what – nowhere.
September 24, 2023
Blame that on RedEd and the Climate Change Mafia.
September 24, 2023
It’s an absolute joke all the little ” groups ” within the Cons. The reds, the norths, the Middles, the Europeans, the centrists etc, etc. All with their Chairman and Deputy and Secretary etc. What happened to Mr Tinkles of the highly influential whatever it was
group ? Another dinner, another Whats app Group to stave off examining their own soul.
September 24, 2023
I have posted on here off and on since the Brexit Days, using a different name nearly every time I post. My posts are nearly always printed ( Will this one be ? )
Brexit for me and the rest of us Plebs who voted for it wasn’t for Hedge Fund gains
and the things jumped on by the Cons but it was against what has come about now.
Technocracy, Control, Centralisation etc.
I and the rest of the Plebs dont huddle in little groups
I belong to no group. I think for myself.
Over the 6/7 years or whatever it is since Brexit my eyes have been opened to the sleaze and corruption. So too have a lot of the eyes other Plebs.
September 24, 2023
May I take the liberty of writing about a different topic, the future of HS2 and our rail network. Demand for rail travel is down by between 20% and 25% since the pandemic, so the old arguement about urgently needing additional capacity does not hold water. Delaying or cancelling some sections is a possibility.
I don’t see much point in cancelling the Old Oak Common to Euston section. After all, demand for rail travel between Birmingham and Old Common must be limited. Completion of this section should be a priority. I think that Birmingham to Crewe should be built but not necessarily immediately. It would first be a good idea to wind up the current HS2 Limited, which has been poor at cost control. The Government should define the route and all of the main design characteristics, then let a fixed price contract by competitive tender. This should be possible because Birmingham to Crewe is across fairly open country.
Once HS2 from London to Crewe is complete, we need to do two things. First, to consider what is the best means of improving rail services in the north of England – it could be a series of step improvements rather than an expensive ‘big bang’ new route between Liverpool and Hull. Crewe is already a major hub on our rail network and we should look for synergies between HS2 and that network.
Secondly, we should use the rail network to best effect. The existing West Coast Main Line from London to Glasgow could be prioritised for freight. There are genuine environmental gains in diverting road haulage to rail.
There are too many passenger trains running empty or half empty to say that about passenger travel. On the WCML, passenger trains would have to fit round freight provision. Secondly, provision of passenger travel should be demand driven. Network rail should be ordered to make a profit and the no redundancies promise to the rail unions should be withdrawn. There should be three classes of rail travel – business class with all facilities need to work efficiently on the train, standard class on which passengers must be seated, and standing room only for the young and hale and hearty (innovative designs needed).
September 25, 2023
‘cancelling the Old Oak Common to Euston section’ saves about Ā£10bn – you know, enough for another 2 aircraft carriers.
September 24, 2023
I was under the impression that high quality British Steel was valued and exported. With normal the day-to-day commercial quality this country could not compete with the RoTW. So, why has our special expertise not been promoted more across the globe?
September 24, 2023
Right. We distinctly remember – when speed cameras were first introduced – Chiefs of Police assuring us that speed cameras were there to correct serious over-speeders and not to become cash machines for the authorities for minor infractions.
Well. After 14 years of Tory rule they ARE cash machines for the authorities.
It’s this sort of thing that is going to see your party obliterated and even big name Tories ejected.
The Sun/Express/Mail campaign to demonise Starmer is not going to save you. We’ve been through this before and you just abuse our votes when you get them.
September 25, 2023
Serious speedsters are those who drive at 22 in a new sign ridden 20 zone, and those boy-racers who have to travel at breathtaking 32 in a 30 limit. Attend a speed awareness course and you will have it all explained. Forget the 90mph commuters they are not to worry about.
September 24, 2023
“My right hon. Friend is always absolutely hot on these topics” but is never allowed to control the narrative because it shows up the puny MPs who dominate the airwaves with shallow media sound bytes which get the attention instead. Complicated topics don’t play well for mass audiences.
September 25, 2023
Why do you believe steel is more important than semiconductors, electronics and software?
September 25, 2023
It’s not, both are fundamental to our manufacturing base, except;
We have very little control over much of Semiconductors, even ARM only does licensing of IP.
Software; we are dependent of oversea (USA) company’s. MS, IBM, Oracle, ….
Electronic components; we import large quantities!
I’m not saying we don’t have any, but we seem to have lost that race, and Politicians prefer Finance and other Services sectors!
But, if you want a Domain that the Poor, Working Poor, and Blue Collar Workers can occupy without needing extra benefits (as is the case with the EU Customs Union, and Universal Credit, which it was designed for), then you need a High Value Added Manufacturing Domain! As we had before 1997!
And, Steel, Specialised Steel, Scrap processing, Opencast Mining, Manufacturing, so on… Provides!
Within this Domain, these People have Self Determination and a High Value jobs that would maintain their livelihoods (Pay a Mortgage, savings), also a large number of Self Employed, flattening and distributing wealth for those that work! (Problem now with the effects of QE x 2, Asset price Inflation a real problem for startups)!
Benefits Vs Self Determination?
So, yes, both are important!
BR
RDM.