My intervention in the King’s Speech debate (2)

John Redwood (Wok, Con):

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it does not work in its own terms? If somebody gets an electric vehicle today and goes home and plugs it in, they will have to burn more gas in a gas power station, because there will not suddenly be more renewable power to recharge that car.

Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg:

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right but at least, thanks to this King’s Speech, it may be a little bit more British gas that we will be getting out, and that of course should be pushed further. There has been some talk that the proposals have been watered down. Well, they should be watered back up again, so that we get as much out of the North sea as we possibly can. It is in our economic interests and our environmental interests because the emissions are lower when we use domestically produced resources. But, as I say, we have to go further.





  1. Mark B
    November 10, 2023

    Good morning.

    Fun fact about EV’s. Did you know that when charging your EV at home you have to convert the AC to DC (good name for a rock band that) and by doing so you consume more energy (around 10%) compared to a dedicated DC charger.

    So to charge all these EV’s (assuming they are coming from a domestic supply) we have to factor in 10% more energy requirements.

    I am so glad those EV insurance premiums are going through the roof. That’s is the cost of virtue signalling I suppose 😉

    1. Donna
      November 10, 2023

      No I didn’t know that. But since I couldn’t charge an EV at home even if I wanted to (along with at least 50% of current car owners) it makes no difference to my decision not to get one.

    2. Peter Wood
      November 10, 2023

      Yes, it’s strange to think that most (?) people don’t know that all batteries are Direct Current, and our wall sockets only provide Alternating Current; but there we are….
      Would everyone go and read ‘CO2 is not a bogeyman – and here’s the proof’ on TCW, and watch the brains behind it, Prof. Willian Happer, who presents on a YT video. It is the clearest demonstration of how CO2 affects us and the scam of the CO2 threat being put about by politicians and vested interests.

      1. David
        November 10, 2023

        Public charging points are no more DC than domestic 13A sockets are DC. They take in high-voltage AC electricity from the national grid, rectify it and charge the battery at whatever voltage it may be. This avoids the losses in the low voltage 240 V AC system. However, losses in high-speed charging are greater than in charging a car slowly at 240 V AC over say 8-12 hours overnight. It’s swings and roundabouts.

        A friend with a 8 year-old elec van told me recently that he has to try not to charge his battery above 80% capacity or discharge it below 20%. It’s bad for it. Keeping it at 50-80% is best. There are other rules to obey. He rarely drives more than 100 km on one trip.

        After 120 years there are few such rules for liquid-fuelled cars. Re-fill to the brim, if you’re prudent drive it very gently, after 1,200 km (75 km) (if you bravely let the tank become 90% empty) re-fill it in 5 mins. with 45 litres of diesel. I consume 15 litres per month, people doing normal distances might need 30 litres.

        Peak oil worldwide was in 2018 so life is set to get very tough … as I and colleagues were aware ~40 years ago. But it’s facile nonsense to think that within 27 years we can manage a transition that took ~100 years for oil-fuelled cars. In the 1890s most cars were steam or electric.

        I even think we should look at Carbon Recycling International of Iceland. CRI is making e-methanol from unwanted geothermal electricity and the CO2 in the geothermal hot water. EU petrol is 3% methanol. One can probably do the same using CO2 from major industrial processes like steelmaking or cement manufacture.

        I don’t think we can ever make all our 2023 petrol consumption this way but as the world situation worsens the situation will become one of ‘every little helps’. Probably petrol engines could be drastically uprated if they ran on a methanol-rich mixture, i.e. they’d consume less fuel (litres/kilometre). The deadlines to phase out petrol and diesel cars are absurd.

    3. Lifelogic
      November 10, 2023

      indeed huge energy is lost in manufacturing the EV and battery as soon as you order one perhaps 50,000 miles worth typically in manufacture alone. It is lost at the power stations, lost in transmission to the charger, lost in voltage & AC to DC conversions, lost as heat in the battery when charging, lost by cooling fans to cool the battery when charging, lost while the battery is just standing still, lost in battery discharge… plus each charge/discharge cycle depreciates the battery and thus the car. This devaluation is often by more than the value of the electricity in each charge.

      Plus a bit more CO2 is a net good anyway. EV cars rarely make sense financially, in CO2 terms, in practical terms, cost more to insure, produce more road and tyre wear particulates need vast numbers of chargers, slow to charge, impractical…

    4. Peter Wood
      November 10, 2023

      BTW, more relevant to yesterday’s post – the US Treasury had ‘weak demand’ for its long bonds overnight, meaning higher yields being sought by buyers (why wouldn’t you, when you know there’s another $ trillion on the way!). Is the BoE watching; if the World’s reserve currency is seeing lower demand for it’s debt, who will want Gilts from a weak economy with an incompetent government soon to be replaced by socialists?

      1. Lynn Atkinson
        November 10, 2023

        The USD has lost its petro-dollar status, and as a result it’s just a matter of time before it loses the Reserve Currency status. So its bonds are being ditched by all the world and thus the USD is in a much weaker position than Sterling. The EURO is in existential decline.
        Sterling might well be the last western currency standing because in spite of being attacked by the Treasury/BOE they can’t kill our economy. Must be very frustrating for them!

    5. Ian B
      November 10, 2023

      @Mark B – “That’s is the cost of virtue signalling I suppose 😉” we have a virtue signaling party that has hijacked Parliament, where any other than the job at hand is considered a result

    6. Lifelogic
      November 10, 2023

      If the heat were produced in the house then this waste heat might usefully warms the house, but usually they voltage converters charger electronics are in garages or outside probably safer that way. Plus in winter you probably do not want the extra heat anyway.

    7. jerry
      November 10, 2023

      @Mark B; What is a “dedicated DC charger”, and were can they be bought…?!

      Given it is decades since the last public DC power distribution grid was switched off in the UK, every battery charger, whatever its size or the end-user device, has to have both voltage a step-down transformer and a rectifier to convert from alternating current to direct current, with the same inefficiencies, those losses have become less due to solid state electronics in recent years.

      1. Lifelogic
        November 10, 2023

        Well depends where (and how) the power is coming from to supply the chargers there are such things for special circumstances. If it is something like a COP22 conference they absurdly/moronically usually power the EV chargers using diesel generators trucked in on diesel trucks. Thus wasting far more diesel than would have been used had they all arrived in Diesel Cars at least triple I estimate.

        But larger scale voltage AC to DV voltage converters supplying multiple EV chargers are usually rather more efficient than say 50 small units in 50 different houses. Not that efficient though in that all the people waiting for them to charge doubtless have to sit around waiting for ages and order coffees or meals in a heated cafe. Not so good for productivity.

      2. Know-Dice
        November 10, 2023

        A dedicated DC charger is one that feeds DC (400v?) to the car rather than AC (240VAC), but you knew that already. That’s what these commercial fast & ultra charge points are.

        But, as you say even a dedicated DC charger will have AC as its input.

        In both cases whether the “charger” is in the car or external there will be losses and may be better put up with possibly a larger efficiency loss at home due to I squared R losses in the connecting cable than pay a premium for charging from a commercial charge point

      3. Atlas
        November 10, 2023

        This is true for non-incandescent lighting as well.

      4. hefner
        November 10, 2023

        j, +1

  2. Javelin
    November 10, 2023

    I have made many comments on this forum saying that foreign wars would create domestic conflict.

    This has turned out to be another one of my predictable predictions.

    I think the apex of the most recent conflict is that if those supporting Palestine split from the Labour Party then the Aspire Party would benefit and get between 10-30 seats. This could create the third largest party in the UK. Worse still it would literally Balkanise some cities where mass migration from Aspire Party supporters have migrated into concentrated groups.

    My prediction here is not that the 20 MPs that would drive further Balkanisation. The Aspire MPs would simply act as a shield.

    My prediction is that the road to further Balkanisation would run through winning the local councils inside the cities. This would create a situation where services delivered by local councils would act as a catalyst for Balkanisation. For example education, roads, environmental protection, social housing etc, etc. So much is managed by local authorities that councils could Balkanize the UK to a far greater extent than MPs could.

    It would then fall on MPs to bring in laws to stop local authorities Balkanising the UK which would create a huge amount of political noise and distraction.

    History has shown us that eventually these enclaves come into conflict with the state because of domestic issues rather than international wars.

    1. BOF
      November 10, 2023

      +1 Javelin
      Conflict, not only with the state, but with their neighbours as well.

    2. Ian B
      November 10, 2023

      @ Javelin – I see your point , but when we have the baulk of Parliament that is against the UK, that won’t represent their electorate, it is not the structures that are wrong but the candidate selection that puts us in jeopardy. While theoretically the opposite, our political structure of gang leaders choosing candidates with external(to the constituency) financial support , denies the electorate real candidates that will support them.

    3. Everhopeful
      November 10, 2023

      I am sure that you are spot on.
      No wonder our dear leaders want to keep us all indoors and not travel.
      No wonder they have trashed OUR cohesion and trad ways of life!
      They know what they have done…only certain people allowed to go to the Cenotaph apparently.
      What an utter, utter shameful sh*t show!

    4. Narrow Shoulders
      November 10, 2023

      The inevitable of a modern culture that is more interested in self-flagellation and navel gazing becoming outnumbered by a medieval culture fixated on its own values.

      1. Narrow Shoulders
        November 10, 2023

        Inevitable result

    5. Lifelogic
      November 10, 2023

      Indeed indoctrination of young children into religions both the old and the new ones (like climate change and the woke lunacy does not help to say the least). Was it not the dire (now Lord) Blunket MP who gave us even more religious schools so as to increase such damaging cleavages in society.

    6. Hope
      November 10, 2023

      Guido highlights the person arranging this weekends protest worked for Starmer up until this week. I am surprised Tories have not questioned this, especially if they genuinely cared about racism in society. Before critiquing Braverman perhaps Labour gets its own house in order.

      What does this say about the Labour Party and total lack of progress to change it’s institutional racism towards Jewish people.

      EU and UK establishment want Balkanisation of UK. That was the EU plan to divide our country into regions. This is why we have imposed mayors forced upon us with police commissioners.

    7. Bloke
      November 10, 2023

      Foreign wars are mainly matters for others. The domestic conflict you describe is likely caused by people living in the UK who favour their foreign country origins above the UK as their chosen home, intending to create such ways of life here, and clashing when opposing sides are chosen. Foreign wars are such a negative stimulus here as you indicate.

      1. Mickey Taking
        November 10, 2023

        Exactly the fear growing in the UK. There are more and more areas of original culture and preferred laws developing in UK, against the centuries old developed society.
        Multiculture is bring disharmony, not peace.

    8. jerry
      November 10, 2023

      @Javelin; Well yes, any world situation can be used to stoke domestic conflict, as indeed your very comment is attempting to do, next you’ll be claiming credit because you predicted Wednesday will follow Tuesday!

      Also do not assume the right could not also split due to the Palestine-Israel situation, indeed there appears to be a split among the right-wing press this morning judged from the front pages, some on the right need to be very careful of what they wish for.

      1. Sam
        November 10, 2023

        Do you take the opposite view in every post to write Jerry?
        Is it a hobby or do you genuinely hold these various opinions?

        1. jerry
          November 11, 2023

          @Sam (or is it really Peter2); It’s called having a debate….

          Do you troll everyone who happens not to think how you think they should; think, you must be popular in the pub!

          1. Sam
            November 11, 2023

            Pot kettle eh Jerry
            No actual answer to my question I note.

          2. jerry
            November 12, 2023

            @Sam; I did answer, but just for you, once again: It’s called having a debate….

            What is more, if our host objects he is free to delete my comments, no help from you needed!

    9. Mitchel
      November 10, 2023

      The entities that later became the nation states of western Europe were mostly formed within the Roman Empire whilst it still appeared to be an empire.The collapse of central power(in part due to economic collapse) emboldened these entities to declare themselves kingdoms and when it became clear the centre could do nothing about this(no money,no significant remaining military),the centre was demolished and the western emperor was “retired”,his insignia of office returned to the eastern emperor in Constantinople.

    10. Roy Grainger
      November 10, 2023

      What would speed that process is if Starmer had to promise the LibDems he’d bring in PR voting to get them into a coalition. One upside is that an election run on PR would eliminate the LibDems.

  3. Lynn Atkinson
    November 10, 2023

    Bravo both!

  4. Donna
    November 10, 2023

    The King’s Speech was a waste of time and the money it cost taxpayers to transport Charles from Buck Palace to Westminster. It wasn’t a conservative King’s Speech, just another exercise in fiddling whilst Rome burns.

    A Conservative MP, on Nigel’s GB News Show yesterday (forget his name) when asked what united all the various factions in the Not-a-Conservative-Party said the Party stands for CHOICE and freedom for people to make their own decisions.

    For a start that hasn’t been on display for the past 3 years, under the Covid Tyranny. And the PM has now destroyed that “unifier” with his tyrannical policy of making it illegal for an adult to CHOOSE to buy cigarettes for the whole of his life, if he/she happened to be born one day after the cut-off date the PM has decided on.

    I don’t smoke and I never have. I dislike it. But this is about freedom and CHOICE. And I am sick to death of politicians and their out-of-control Health Quangocrats assuming the power to micro-manage our lives.

  5. Roy Grainger
    November 10, 2023

    “If somebody gets an electric vehicle today and goes home and plugs it in, they will have to burn more gas in a gas power station”

    Not strictly true John because lots of EV charging stations don’t actually work – up to 30% in some cities.

  6. Clough
    November 10, 2023

    Javelin, if I understand you right “balkanise” means fragment support for Starmer’s Labour Party. I don’t have a problem with that.

  7. Lifelogic
    November 10, 2023

    Plus you produce typically about 50,000 miles of CO2 production just by ordering the EV car causing it to be manufactured.

    1. Lifelogic
      November 10, 2023

      So on a typical UK electricity energy mix they rarely repay in CO2 terms – before the battery falls and the car goes for recycling or burial and a new one is constructed. Even wind power is not CO2 free after constructions, concrete, grid connections, maintenance using diesel ships, lubrications oils, manufacturing, their fairly short lives, recycling… are all considered fully. Not that reducing CO2 should even be a goal as it is a net good.

  8. Ian B
    November 10, 2023

    We have a weak Government, a government that is not a Conservative Government that people were asked to vote for at the last Election. We ended up with WEF Socialist acolytes that are endeavoring by stealth to trash the UK, its very being and its survival.
    This Government is that weak, that they are forced to toe the line of the demands of the collective ‘blob’ and the MsM even though those entities are not the whole electorate. We are seeing this playing out daily whenever a ‘Conservative’ raises their head all the above as a result of this weak Conservative Government campaigns and briefs against them. Not are they allowed to get away with it the current cabal in government bend to the directions that are dictated to them. This is a result of our PM, our 2 Chancellors having no convictions, they have no interest in the UK other than its demise and quite frankly they act as if why should they care, they are off any day now and everyone else can pick up the tab for their inabilities and mistakes.
    The so-called Kings Speech, a joke, a deflection with no meaningful substance that supports the UK

  9. Lifelogic
    November 10, 2023

    The King’s Speech was pathetic hugely misguided & totally uninspiring.

    So Sunak has distanced himself for his Home Sec. letter. There is surely not the slightest doubt that the police are extremely selective in whom they choose to arrest and charge usually totally the wrong people. Basically they arrest easy targets and rarely Net Zero vandals, Hamas supporters of terrorism and even take the knee like the foolish Starmer and Labour to Black Lives Matter. Rather like the idiotic BBC agenda.

    We even have our King of Climate Alarmism delusion & of gross hypocrisy wearing a black poppy Farrage tells us on GB news.

    1. Lifelogic
      November 10, 2023

      A red poppy surely remembers all those (of every skin shade) who suffered or laid down their lives. Another big mistake Charles, like Climate Alarmism, so please get out of politics like your sensible mother in your own interests.

  10. Lifelogic
    November 10, 2023

    So you will not be allowed to travel in driverless cars if a bit drunk. So will driverless taxis be aloud to take drunk passengers or people who cannot drive. Surely there is little point in these cars if they have to carry a sober and capable driver anyway? Surely the driverless taxis need to be able to travel safely even when empty to be much of an advantage to get to the next job.

  11. XY
    November 10, 2023

    Latest figures on EV sales that I read earlier in the week say that they have gone up… by a whole 0.6% to just over 15% of car sales. Way short of the govt 2025 target. Can we expect another set of daft rules to try to force us to use them?

    And talking of watering down… the King’s Speech was so thin many Tories are wondering if Sunak has already checked out of No 10 in spirit. It’s a long way short of our host’s recent liost of proposals on this site, which were remarkably similar to the list of policies on the Reform UK website, although their list goes further and even has a few radical ideas that I’d have to understand further – such as ownership of utilities 50% govt/pension funds with private sector involvement (presumably in managing them). It would be interesting to see some of those ideas analysed here.

  12. Denis Cooper
    November 10, 2023

    My view is that we must regain energy independence. As the King said, “reduce reliance on volatile international energy markets and hostile foreign regimes”, but the reality is that any foreign regime can potentially turn against us and become hostile. We should not forget that after we voted to leave the EU some French politician publicly called for the interconnector to be shut down to deprive us of electricity. So we should stop arguing about it and get on and expand renewable energy to cover all our needs plus some, and that should be secure generation on the land, not out in the sea where an enemy can disrupt it. I realise this will be expensive and we may lose some beautiful countryside, and it may affect wildlife, but we are going to have to do it sooner or later and it would be better to accept that and get on with it. Otherwise we will always be vulnerable to energy blackmail.

  13. Keith from Leeds
    November 10, 2023

    There is nothing in the King’s speech to inspire & enthuse voters. Sunak is a safety-first, cautious PM with no vision for the UK. The cigarette ban by age is complete nonsense, even though I am a non-smoker. As is his study maths to 18 rubbish as well. Only proper tax cuts can save & lift the Conservative Party now, and with Mr Negative, no room for tax cuts Hunt, there is zero chance of that. It is a disgrace that under a conservative government, we have the highest tax burden for 70-plus years! Yet there is no will, no determination to cut spending & make room for proper tax cuts.
    At least we have a Home Secretary prepared to speak blunt truth, which the majority of voters agree with, but seems to give so-called conservative MPs, Labour MPs and the Blob the vapours. Media reports that Sunak is being advised to sack her are interesting. The PM should be standing firmly behind her & speaking the blunt
    truth himself

  14. Bert+Young
    November 10, 2023

    Sir John’s intervention did criticize the BoE and its uncontrolled effect on the economy – I am pleased about that , however , he was far too gentle about its independence and to its Bond buying . In the last few weeks criticism has substantially increased over Sunak’s role and I consider that the Conservative Benchers have not been forceful enough in the way they have responded to him . Labour have sniffed out this reluctance and the opinion polls confirm this . Today I am equally upset about the criticism levied against Braverman ; she has every right to express her concern about the Metropolitan Police – after all , she is their Home Secretary boss and they must follow her direction . Of course the public have every right to protest – but not in a manner that interferes with other priorities such as the dignity and tradition of Armistice Day ; if she is re-shuffled out of the way it is another sign of Sunak’s weakness .

  15. glen cullen
    November 10, 2023

    China’s state planner said on Friday coal-fired power producers will be guaranteed payments based on their installed capacity regardless of how much energy they actually produce.
    Forget Net Zero, China is subsidising a coal expansion.

  16. glen cullen
    November 10, 2023

    No tax cuts with this government for at least a decase ….money needed to subsidise net-zero

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