What is the cost of large scale migration?

The EU are locked in long and acrimonious talks over EU plans to take over more the tasks of running migration policy at EU level. The EU is wanting burden sharing arrangements. It wants member states receiving a large number of migrants and asylum seekers to be able to send some of them to other countries, or to receive payments from other member states in lieu if taking more migrants.

President  Biden meanwhile  has lost a vote in the Senate to send more money to Ukraine. The Republicans demand he spends more at home on border security to tackle the millions now coming annually over the Mexican frontier. The President who campaigned against Donald Trump’s extension of the border wall is now going ahead with 20 miles  of new wall himself.

The UK when it hit 745,000 extra people in one year coming  here  needed to build   three cities  the size of Southampton just to take that one year’s net arrivals.,You do not just need to build lots of homes for them but also  shops, power stations, water works, schools, surgeries, hospitals and roads. Many of these items require public money raised from taxpayers.

The government is battling the illegals but needs to concentrate more on the legals running at almost 20 times more than the small boat people. If it wants to control public spending, relieve pressures on housing and calm passions about migration cutting the numbers of legal migrants urgently and substantially is the way to go



  1. Mark B
    December 12, 2023

    Good morning.

    What are the costs indeed ?

    We talk about the financial costs. but what of the social costs ? The cost to society due to the lack of integration for example. The damage to the indigenous culture and evermore laws to combat certain behaviour that is not common in the West, like first cousin marriages ? And one could go on.

    We are very much in danger of becoming a ghettoised and fragmented nation with multiple identities. Although parts of London, historically the East End, have always have had high levels of immigrants due to it being the gateway to the sea and beyond, it is other parts that have changed beyond all recognition, and not for the better.

    We now have to compete for jobs, but services too as the government have not planned for this level into the country. I have said on many occasions, that you cannot have MASS IMMIGRATION and a free at the point of use services as the former will swamp the other. This has led to an decrease in the quality of life, another social impact.

    The government has lost control, not that it ever wanted it, it preferring MASS IMMIGRATION. A cost to the nation and the people that will have serious impact on future generations.

    1. Hope
      December 12, 2023

      The destruction of our way of life as we know it being forced to accept hostile alien cultures that endanger our free society. We are being forced to pay for it with the highest taxes on record with 34.3% of GDP! Public services are now dire and social housing mainly for mass immigration with indigenous people sent to the back of the queue.

      This is not England it is a third world country run by idiots.

    2. BOF
      December 12, 2023

      +1 Mark B

  2. Javelin
    December 12, 2023

    I have been posting about the economic and social cohesion issues that would result if this scale of mass migration happened since the 2007 economic crisis. As a banker my job is to foresee latent risks and this one struck me as the largest critical risk.

    The reason I decided this was the largest risk was the 2007 crisis was triggered by wrongly pricing the default rate of Baskets of Mortgage Backed Credit Default Swaps by risk assessors because nobody realised that different cultures had different levels of default risk. If you ever watched films on the 2007 crash you’ll notice the producers show the moment of realisation, but never mention the actual cause. It was a taboo issue.

    If this minor issue could happen in such a minor financial instrument and cause a financial crisis just imagine under estimating this risk across the whole economy. The latent problems we have are unfathomable.

    1. Peter Wood
      December 12, 2023

      It’s worse, we have the highest taxation in ’70 years’ supposedly, and yet still run a budget deficit. This madness under a conservative government with a reportedly financially literate PM.
      This nonsense cannot continue.

  3. Margaret
    December 12, 2023

    Only yesterday I challenged yet again the term ” Task,” There is a preconception which abounds that although a task is a skill there isn’t any thought or intellectual input behind it. We need personnel who can make ethical decisions based on individual circumstance.
    An example of this is as follows.To keep Nurses’ under the thumb ‘with a refusal to acknowledge expertise, understanding and treatment some procedures executed in the general running of their practice are referred to as tasks.From the 1970 ,s I was in charge of Coronary Care Units and for many years took cardiology up as a speciality ,yet today It is written that I only perform a task.This derogatory arrogance is applicable in all walks of life where some assume superiority and others go along with it for the sake of keeping their jobs and trying to justify their approach to cost effectivity.

  4. Wanderer
    December 12, 2023

    People across the EU are fed up with the immigration. Look at the polls and the votes for anti-immigration parties (despite them being smeared as ultra-right).

    I’ve been in Austria for a while and immigration is on most people’s minds. They complain housing is scarcer, their health and educational services are overstretched, unemployment and crime rates are up and taxes are higher. The FPÖ anti-immigration Party is now by far the most popular in much of the country.

    Immigration is also leading to increasing dislike of the EU project, and distrust of the media, which is no bad thing. The authoritarian backlash of the establishment – putting opposition parties under surveillance and calling for their banning (e.g. AfD in Germany) – just hardens most people’s attitudes to the EU. Next year’s EU elections will be interesting.

  5. Lemming
    December 12, 2023

    Our population is getting older. We are in desperate need of immigrants. Will those who want to slash immigration come clean on how this will leave us short of nurses, short of care workers, short of fruit pickers and short of bar staff? Not a problem if you’re rich of course. Most of us are not

    1. Donna
      December 12, 2023

      8 million immigrants have been imported since Blair took Office. (Plus all the illegals who have stayed). How many do you want Lemming?

      Or are you claiming that they are now elderly and/or don’t use public services?

      Employers need to modernise and use technology to improve productivity. Not constantly demand an influx of cheap foreign labour.

    2. Barbara
      December 12, 2023


      We turn down up to 80,000 British youngsters EVERY SINGLE YEAR from nursing training, in favour of bringing in cheaper ones from abroad (the checking of whose supposed qualifications leaves a lot to be desired, imo). This has been widely reported in the national newspapers and has been going on for a very long time. Let’s train our own, as we used to, instead of importing other cultures just because it is cheaper. It is adding insult to injury, banning Britons from training into their chosen jobs and then telling them we ‘have to import others to do the jobs British people won’t do’.

    3. Denis Cooper
      December 12, 2023

      You should come clean about what you would do with said immigrants when they aged and/or sickened.

      Would you send them back home once they were no longer useful to us, and were becoming a burden?

      Or would you bring in further tranches of immigrants to look after the no-longer-young immigrants?

    4. Mark B
      December 12, 2023

      What you are proposing is a human Ponzi scheme. And we all know what happens at the end of that.

      There is not a problem with targeted skilled immigration, especially when those who come here are more than able to both support themselves and any dependants. This is the kind of immigration I would like to see, not what we currently have – a free for all.

    5. Dave Andrews
      December 12, 2023

      Why aren’t the millions that have come here over the past couple of decades enough, that we need yet more?

    6. Berkshire Alan
      December 12, 2023


      How about those who are going to lose their jobs through Ai being retrained for the openings you mention ?

      Many people change their careers many times inter life in order to adapt to changing circumstances, I have done it, other family members and friends have done it.
      There are no jobs for life anymore unless you work for the civil service the NHS or some other Government department.

    7. Old Albion
      December 12, 2023

      Do you honestly still believe that hogwash ‘Lemming’ We have 2 million unemployed and vastly more on ‘the sick’
      Perhaps we should train some of these to do the jobs you highlight. Amongst such a vast number there must be thousands who could fill the vacancies.

    8. beresford
      December 12, 2023

      The best thing about immigrants is that they never get old, of course. Nor wish to be ‘reunited’ with dependants who are already old. Why not change society to incentivise having children? Why not train those children to be health workers or whatever? Why not pay for automation to perform low-paid labour-intensive work?

    9. Martin in Bristol
      December 12, 2023

      With 70 million people now in this small island I thing we have enough people to manage the core tasks.
      Education and training and automation is the way to deal with shortages in particular areas.

    10. Paula
      December 12, 2023

      Leave it out. We’d have the best pensions and NHS by now if mass immigration of this sort were the solution. For every nurse that comes in there are thousands of sick and lazy coming with her.

    11. Lynn Atkinson
      December 13, 2023

      You are not rich because you are supporting so many immigrants. More every day. You will become seriously poor. If you were not so poor, you could afford children and the population demographic would not be as it is.

  6. DOM
    December 12, 2023

    Your party’s to blame for appeasing indigenous hating Labour and their woke client State. It destroyed, and it is destroyed, this nation because you feared nasty words being thrown at you. Personal interests placed before democracy, freedom and our integrity

  7. Mick
    December 12, 2023

    You do not just need to build lots of homes for them but also shops, power stations, water works, schools, surgeries, hospitals and roads. Many of these items require public money raised from taxpayers
    And in the meantime for Sunak to get the Rwanda bill through he’s offering his MPs the earth to get it through, all he cares about is his reputation and staying top dog and to hell with the impact on the general public , will Mr Sunak the public have seen through you and your government so you might as well go to the country and call a General Election because it’s not going to get any better for you

  8. Denis Cooper
    December 12, 2023

    Sir John, it has been said that the Rwanda Bill is not fit for purpose and the government needs to start again with different legislation, but what the government really needs to do is to start again with a different destination.


    “Perhaps some MP will mention the possibility of using Ascension Island?”

    1. glen cullen
      December 12, 2023

      Correct – if the principal of sending immigrants to Rwanda is valid & lawful, then there’s no issue with sending them to any of our overseas territories or indeed any ex-military camp in the UK

    2. Mark B
      December 12, 2023

      We do not need Ascension Island (the US will not like it), nor do we need the Falklands or South Georgia or anywhere outside the United Kingdom. We have plenty of deserted islands, most around Scotland facing the North Atlantic. Yes it is jolly cold. But they will still be on UK soil, safe and, above all, secure. Not able to absconded plus, it would save on the transport costs.

      Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

      1. Denis Cooper
        December 13, 2023

        I take it you have asked the Americans whether they would object to us making this use of our own territory.

        1. Mitchel
          December 13, 2023

          I don’t think you understand-to the USA the whole world is their territory,part of “manifest destiny”.
          They are ,of course, being disabused of this conceit in many parts of the world currently,but not where the UK is concerned.

    3. Lynn Atkinson
      December 13, 2023

      Why not use France – a safe country from whence they came?

      1. Denis Cooper
        December 13, 2023

        No longer one of our possessions!

  9. Bill B.
    December 12, 2023

    I was fascinated to see online page after page of law firms’ websites offering to challenge a UK visa refusal. It’s obviously a flourishing business. Still, it helps to keep up our GDP, I suppose.

    1. glen cullen
      December 12, 2023

      Glass half full ….nice

    2. Mickey Taking
      December 12, 2023

      Legal work increasing GDP – really? It is work that ought not to be necessary.

  10. agricola
    December 12, 2023

    The EU solution would seem to burden the immigrant problem with more and more burocracy, but many of the member states question this and a few are directly opposed. They ignore the flow from North Africa so the problem is never ending. The answer is to return these largely economic migrants at a greater rate than they arrive.

    Biden is an undoubted liability for the USA and a danger to the democratic West. We witnesed his flight from Afgahnistan so his seeming abandonment of Ukraine should come as no surprise.

    For us in the UK the headline catching and politically damning are the boats across the Channel. However your consocialist party lacks the will to do anything about it. As you point out the more damaging are the net 745,000 legal migrants. The gross figure is more accurate at around 1,200,000 who all demand more in services than those who left. Ergo make it four Southamptons. In their case your government are directly and quite deliberately responsible. They set the rules at the behest of their globalist and home grown cheap labour demanding masters, in direct conflict with the majority of the UK population. They, your government and the scribes that run them, are sticking plaster economists.

    To your credit you articulate the problem and its solution very ably, but nobody in government is listening. I was very impressed, after many days in purdah, with Nigel Farage’s assessment of the situation the UK presently faces. On GBNews last night he was right on the money. You would do well to realise that he is an ally in the fight for what you want, the enemy surrounds you on the consocialist benches.

  11. Old Albion
    December 12, 2023

    Your Government has been in power for 13 years now. Under this Gov. immigration has soared and you have done nothing. Complaining about the cost now sticks in the craw somewhat.

    1. Mark B
      December 12, 2023

      Hear hear.

      They will have something else to complain about post GE. Why there are so few of them and, the usual, “Oh why did we not listern ?”

    2. Lifelogic
      December 12, 2023

      They have not “done nothing” the Government have actively encouraged it for 13+ years.

  12. Narrow Shoulders
    December 12, 2023

    It’s not just the infrastructure costs though is it Sir John large though these are.

    There is the extra crime, the slums created and the extra time ordinary people have to take when applying for schools, doctors and finding rental properties. Then there is the increased costs of these rental properties and of buying a house due to demand (government anti-landlord legislation and money printing is not helping here either). Other living costs are increased due to demand and wages are suppressed because transient immigrants living dangerously cramped in digs are only here to earn quickly and leave.

    Immigration should be a benefit to the country but it has been used as a false bump to GDP and to make money and save money for business and the establishment.

    1. Mark B
      December 12, 2023


    2. Paula
      December 12, 2023

      Yes. And all the qualified people quitting the UK (because only qualified people CAN quit the UK) because of the mess that mass immigration is making here.

  13. Brian Tomkinson
    December 12, 2023

    JR: “If it wants to control public spending, relieve pressures on housing and calm passions about migration cutting the numbers of legal migrants urgently and substantially is the way to go.”
    This government allowed this level of legal migration and their latest proposals to reduce it don’t begin for months. No sign of urgency at all. In fact, it must be assumed that, after 13 years of reneging on manifesto promises to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands whilst seeing numbers rise to nearer 1 million per annum, this government has no intention of calming passions other than just pretending to be doing something.
    How can you continue to support such duplicity?

  14. Lifelogic
    December 12, 2023

    1.2 million total inward migration and 508k leaving. It would be interesting to see the average capital these two groups have. I suspect most arriving have rather little capital and need housing and most leaving often have housing, some capital and pensions investments. Many leaving to retire of investment income perhaps.

    You correctly mention more power stations, if our moronic government stick to net zero, heat pumps, EV cars agenda the extra cost on improving the grid to cope are huge virtually impossible anyway. Indeed running EV cars and heat pumps off mainly gas produced electricity or burning imported wood is absurd even in just CO2 terms. Not that CO2 is a real problem anyway.

    1. Lifelogic
      December 12, 2023

      So Sunak wants us to believe he lost his Whatsapp messages when he changed phones. But the “brilliant” KC did not even follow up on this issue. How did this happen? Where are the old phone, has an engineer tried to recover them, did sunak himself set up the new phone and whatsapp accounts.

      I know no one who has ever lost messages in this way when changing phone.

      Sunak also apologised to the victims but failed to say what he was actually saying sorry for!

      Then he said the enquiry must “learn lessons” but the enquiry is set up to deliberately avoid the main questions and “lessons to be learned” which surely are:-

      Was Covid manmade after gain of function lab experiments? Surely Yes.
      Was it a leak or released on purpose? Yes but prob. accidental.
      Who funded this gain of function experimentation? USA, China and others?
      Did lockdowns do huge net harms to health and the economy? Yes.
      Did the new tech. “vaccines” do net harm to health on balance? Almost certsinly Yes.
      Was coercing & giving largely untested new tech, vaccines to children, the younger people and people who had already had covid (and so had almost nothing to gain even had they been safe and effective) a crime? Surely yes.

      But lets look at that Dr Death claim and the other nasty names.

      Eat out to help out did not seem to cause any increase in deaths (death brought forwards slightly) but it was of course an idiotic way to use tax payers money to buy other people restaurant meals. After wasting millions in collecting it and distributing it and doubtless much fraud too.

      1. Lifelogic
        December 12, 2023

        Merely putting the old sim back in the old phone would surely enable the messeges to be easily accessed (or did the phone fall off a the boat or get lost on a private jet, helicopter perhaps) and the Cloud copy for magically lost? Perhaps Sunak can clarify. Has whatsapp confirmed they are really are lost?

    2. Lifelogic
      December 12, 2023

      Also what their crime risk profiles are too.

  15. Cliff.. Wokingham.
    December 12, 2023

    Morning Sir John,
    It’s a real mess isn’t it?
    I cannot argue with anything you’ve said this morning, for me it’s just common sense.
    Perhaps we should play the green card in order to trump the one nation Conservatives argument.
    It is green to reduce the population of our country to a more sustainable level. It is not green to keep increasing our population by bringing more and more people in. Use the left”s own stick to beat them with.

  16. The PrangWizard
    December 12, 2023

    Typical of a debate-only person to divert attention from a difficult illegals problem, and this piece is of course politics to promote his party’s interests. He does not have the courage to propose anything determined against criminality. That would not go down well and be bad for the party. Sitting in the HofC must be very nice hideaway place, where a nice warm feeling is felt after asking a question and even when getting lied to in answer or deceived. Even so haven’t I been strong he thinks. My party is wonderful.

    He proposes a decrease in legal immigration, how imaginative. By what figure? 50,000pa? 150,000pa? 300,000pa? 500,000pa? His party has come up with a plan claiming 300,000pa anyway so why bother. I dare say he goes with this and dare not demand more.

    So 450,000pa immigration is fine with him and therefore he thinks his party may benefit at this level. Not the country of course the destruction of which continues apace under his and its control.

    In the meantime the illegals are untouched, and thus at say 60,000 pa is regarded as acceptable, a bit a useless faffing and stage-managing is good to pretend it is being solved. Paying £32 million a day soon is acceptable too. However Mr Redwood may question the accuracy of the figure and that will be regarded as enough of a criticism.

    Will you vote against the Rwanda deal? of course not.

  17. Sea_Warrior
    December 12, 2023

    ‘President Biden meanwhile has lost a vote in the Senate to send more money to Ukraine.’ Many reasons for that – but Ukraine has done itself no favours by seemingly wanting the West to pay for:
    (1) Weapons.
    (2) The running-costs of government.
    (3) Elections.
    (4) Supporting the economy.
    (5) Reconstruction.
    (6) Preparing for EU accession.
    I wonder how much use it is making of debt-finance to pay for its needs – like we had to in two world wars. Our aid to the country should be limited to what the existing foreign-aid budget can spare. The EU can take on the lion’s share of the job.

    1. Lynn Atkinson
      December 13, 2023

      That’s what Biden says 😂🤣
      The EU manufactures 4,000 155cm shells a month. Ukraine was and still needs to fire 20,000 a day.

    2. Mitchel
      December 13, 2023

      “Elections”?What elections!

  18. Des
    December 12, 2023

    The ruling class use the population as surety for their profligate spending and cash cows to milk. If you have a native population that is declining due to low birth rates you need to replace them just like you would if your cattle were not producing calves fast enough. There is no intention to halt or even slow immigration and I suspect you are well aware of that Mr Redwood. This pretence of concern is merely to prevent the serfs rebelling and stringing the ruling class up with barbed wire necklaces.

  19. Sakara Gold
    December 12, 2023

    “The Republicans demand he spends more at home on border security”

    I would disagree with this statement. A small pro-Putin (??) minority of MAGA Republicans have held up further military aid for Ukraine for weeks – as they bicker over the annual debt ceiling negotiations. A vote in the Senate was held last week, where Biden’s funding proposal for aid to Israel and Ukraine was voted down by 4 votes – as a tiny Democratic group demanded funds for social programs. This is typical American politics

    Our brave Ukraine ally is currently absobing and throwing back Russian WW1-style human wave assaults on their defensive positions. If there is any prospect that Trump and his MAGA minority will succeed in their partisan politics and cut off military support for Ukraine, NATO will have to put boots on the ground, at Stoltenberg and the governments of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia have pointed out.

    1. Mark B
      December 12, 2023

      Why should the US taxpayer pay to defend a corrupt foreign government when their own President will not defend theirs ?

    2. Hat man
      December 12, 2023

      Meanwhile in the real world, Sakara, the US is trying to manage a soft landing for its project of ‘weakening’ Russia using Ukraine as a proxy. The big summer offensive has failed with high casualties and Zelensky’s leadership is being openly questioned. The bottom line is that Ukraine is running out of trained manpower and its recruitment is faltering. It cannot long sustain this war, which cannot and should not be prolonged any further. I was glad to see our government seems to have stopped throwing good money after bad.
      The hope was earlier that a Korea-type ‘freeze’ of the frontline could be arranged, so the Biden administration would not lose too much face in the run up to the US elections next year. That may still be just possible. In any case, recent statements from the Kremlin suggest there’s no longer any chance of negotiations between Russia and Ukraine. They will now have to be between Russia and NATO/US, and the sooner the better, or else Ukraine’s pointless suffering will continue.

  20. Hope
    December 12, 2023

    Your party/allowed 3.5 million gross came here in two years JR. Stop minimising the actual figure. Your party/Govt has no control who leaves, that was pure luck and based on estimates! Hence why a huge upward revision. Your party/Govt chose to allow 3.5 million coming here against it s repeated promises to cut numbers to tens of thousands, under 219,000 etc. 3.5 million allowed in placing huge strain on public services for the people of this nation JR. The deliberate dishonesty of your party/Govt on this issue is also overwhelming.

  21. Lifelogic
    December 12, 2023

    Much talk of a dream team of Boris and Farage. This is highly unlikely in my view.

    Boris is obsessed with net zero Farage knows it is economic and environmental lunacy. Boris has failed to deliver Brexit properly and has betrayed NI, Boris is in favour of essentially open door migration. Boris even thought HS2 was a sensible use of tax payers money plus he still champions his very sig. net harm Covid vaccine roll out. There is no return for Boris.

    Reply Neither are MPs so neither can be PM

    1. formula57
      December 12, 2023

      @ Reply – as Alec Douglas-Home showed, very nearly.

    2. Hope
      December 12, 2023

      Make them Lords, worked for Madelson and serial ratter Cameron.

    3. BOF
      December 12, 2023

      Reply to teply.

      And indeed, neither are in the House of Lords!

    4. glen cullen
      December 12, 2023

      Make them Peers (then PM – its been done before), this government likes making everyone a Peer

    5. Lynn Atkinson
      December 13, 2023

      And Farage knows nothing. He reads other peoples books etc and like all narcs ‘pilfers the character traits’.
      But in response to Reply – the Tories would think nothing of sending both to the Lords. They might as well, it a chamber pot large enough to accommodate more.

  22. Bloke
    December 12, 2023

    Cutting the legal migration level is easier and has most effect. This daft government should have foreseen and acted to prevent what has occurred and remains out of control. However, illegal entrants are more at fault in breaking our law. Both must be prevented efficiently.

  23. Berkshire Alan
    December 12, 2023

    Interesting that the integration into our society, traditions, respect for our culture, pride in our Nations history and democracy and way of life, is virtually never mentioned or taken into account.
    Mass immigration wherever it occurs causes all sorts of problems with regards to the above as new immigrants tend to gravitate towards existing immigrant communities, which whilst perfectly understandable for reasons of language, support, known way of past life etc, does not help with proper integration at all, indeed it almost prevents it.
    Not singling out any nation in particular, as British nationals tend to do the same when emigrating abroad.
    Too much change too quickly with too many people actually causes friction and divides a Nation, rather than bringing it closer together

    1. Mark B
      December 12, 2023

      Very well put.


  24. Donna
    December 12, 2023

    The true cost of large scale immigration (legal and criminal) is the destruction of the NATION.

    Definition of a nation: “a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.”

    In what way are the British people united by common descent, history, culture or language with the hordes who have been invited/allowed to come here over the past 20 years? As Jenrick said the other day, it is impossible to assimilate the numbers now coming.

    Mass immigration is destroying the UK and is now also destroying Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands, Denmark …. all the civilised western NATIONS.

    But then, that was the intention and Sunak is going to do nothing to even try to stop it.

    1. Hope
      December 12, 2023

      +many. Destruction of nation state is globalists aim.

    2. BOF
      December 12, 2023

      +1 Donna
      The Balkanisation of Britain.

    3. Sharon
      December 12, 2023

      Plus, Donna – the woke brigade are re-writing history, fussing over language causing offence, numerous accusations of phobias or ists, everyone is judged by their skin colour…. that’s not done our culture any good either!

  25. Bryan Harris
    December 12, 2023

    The whole subject of taking migrants in is filled with absurdities and deception.

    There would NOT be so many people wanting to come here if there were fewer wars and the West could learn to use diplomacy, but the fact is that war machines need feeding regularly to bolster the income of the manufacturers that supply death on command.

    Why is it that all Arab migrants come to the West? Arab countries should be taking them in – NOT US!
    Politics comes into play here, along with globalists solutions to non-existent issues, and we know the West is being saturated with foreigners for political not humane reasons.

    Arab countries have a much higher birth rate than the West, meaning that no matter how many migrants we take in it will make very little difference to the overall population of the ME.

    Do we really want a proper solution to this issue – or is it more theatre?
    Build a safe enclave in the Middle East, where all refugees can go – then have decent troops under the UN banner patrol and give support — It’s not rocket science!

  26. glen cullen
    December 12, 2023

    The cost of large scale migration is a Labour government – due to this Tory governments inability to do anything

  27. majorfrustration
    December 12, 2023

    Agree the Government needs to cut numbers but the Government is not running the country.

  28. MFD
    December 12, 2023

    And with Spain trying AGAIN trying to grab Gib, we are very much in need of a Government that is strong and willing to fight for our country.
    The EU have danced rings round our politicians. Look at Northern Ireland.
    Where has the Brit spirit gone to!
    Both the migrant problems could be solved quickly if we acted strong , Firstly by withdrawing from the ECHR which has out lived its use! Then putting native Brits first!

  29. Ian B
    December 12, 2023

    Today the UK Parliament will vote to confirm that it is a puppet of a Foreign unelected unaccountable power. The UK Parliament will confirm that they, the MP’s, are not the UK’s legislators, but are subordinate ‘actors’ of others.
    Thus, confirming that the UK is not a Democracy but someone else’s Colony and its so-called MP’s are but stooges in the charade.
    Our elected MP’s will continue to encourage the Worlds Criminals to force themselves on to/in to the UK they will cause the UK Taxpayer to pay for this Criminal activity, support this activity by showering Criminals with the support that the UK Citizen is denied, Parliament will trash the Human Rights of every UK Citizens. All to confirm that our MP’s are puppets of a higher power.

  30. Bloke
    December 12, 2023

    Splitting Home Office ministers’ responsibilities might make some sense, but having a minister ‘FOR’ illegal immigration is errant. The moniker ‘Illegal immigration minister’ is even dafter unless he’s that way inclined.
    Unemployment is a problem for government to manage but ‘Minister for Unemployment’ also signifies unintended purpose, so ‘Employment’ is used. Similarly Education is FOR education not of it.
    Minister AGAINST illegal migration would be more accurate, unless he’s encouraging more of them.

  31. Timaction
    December 12, 2023

    YOUR GOVERNMENT Sir John, I repeat, YOUR TORY GOVERNMENT, decided by way of policy to issue 1.2 million visas last year. That’s 3287 people for every day of the year. This follows on from record numbers every year since Brexit after pledges/promises in your 2019 manifesto to bring the number down from over 200,000.
    As you have legislated to bring in a points based system it is a matter of Government choice on how many visas across every category they allow. Same with EU people and cut off dates repeatedly extended. They knew and chose to bring in this number and now must pay the price for their deliberate policy betrayal of English taxpayers. We don’t benefit or want any more immigration. We want the reverse!
    We all live out here in the real world where there are limited Doctors, no dentistry, a housing crisis, building sites everywhere, no school places, congestion everywhere etc. It is beyond belief that YOUR Government imports tax payer subsidised minimum wage workers allowing 20% discount on wages whilst paying 5.6 million to sit on their asses. Increasing their welfare by inflation, above average wages and additional cost of living payments. Madness. Then they import illegals living in tents in Calais with no welfare to ferry them across the Channel place them in 4* Hotels all mod cons, food, pocket money, mobiles etc. More madness.
    Your Government have lost the plot, continually lie to stay in office. Just go, we need REFORM.

    1. Hope
      December 12, 2023

      3.5 million allowed to feed on the teete of UK taxpayers in two years! Govt does not control who leaves, the leave number is based on estimates!

  32. Keith from Leeds
    December 12, 2023

    Promise after promise to reduce Immigration, both legal and illegal, going back to the 2010 Manifesto and still most Conservative MPs don’t seem to get it. What kind of legal advice are the Government getting if they can’t produce a watertight bill to solve the problem? Most Conservative MPs seem to be sleepwalking to a wipeout next year in the General Election. Who is going to believe a word in their GE Manifesto? Under Sunak they have been 20% plus behind in the opinion polls for a year and that is not going to change, unless they change him, and get rid of Hunt, the most negative Chancellor of the last 30 years, against stiff competition, and the Remain loving Lord Cameron. Give us a proper Conservative Government or I, like many others, will vote Reform!

    1. Lifelogic
      December 12, 2023

      +1 but zero sign of a proper Conservative Government not had one in my lifetime yet – even Thatcher made huge errors falling for climate alarmism, the ERM, the EU TREATIES, and failed to cut the state remotely sufficiently.

  33. Everhopeful
    December 12, 2023

    I’ll tell you one of the costs.
    We have no “Health Service” any more.
    My son went into A&E on Saturday night with testicular torsion.
    5 different doctors…5 different diagnoses…5 different types of advice.
    Yet no action taken.
    And now they say removal.
    Contact with anyone in charge…impossible.

    1. Everhopeful
      December 12, 2023

      QR code scanning only for hospital car park.
      We can’t do that. No idea.
      Ward on 9th floor. I literally can not use lifts.
      We are shut out of the world.

  34. Madge
    December 12, 2023

    I agree that the Government can and should reduce legal immigration as soon as possible but I think that most voters have some sympathy with those admitted from places such as Hong Kong, Afghanistan and Ukraine though less so for students on mickey mouse degrees etc. Emotionally, however, the illegal boat people cause the most angst amongst voters with their immediate cost in hotels, benefits etc.
    Any new bill must be watertight in removing the chance of legal arguments and appeals. Grant Shapps claims that few such appeals will succeed, though seemingly on the grounds of hope, with little evidence to support his claim. It is likely that many, if not all, will try to claim exceptional grounds to stay, aided by legal aid lawyers. This will clog up the courts and just delay removals.
    As Churchill said – action this day – the bill must be tightened up!

    1. Timaction
      December 12, 2023

      They will all claim LGBTxyz exemptions and stay. Its all a can kicking exercise until after the election. Every single Country should have an immediate returns policy agreed if in receipt of foreign aid. Is’nt that what the politicos claim is their purpose? Tory’s have only had 13.5 years to sort it. Never does though except hair trigger tax rises for their incompetence.

  35. Nigel
    December 12, 2023

    If the EU sends immigrants to Ireland, will they then be free to come to the U.K. with no questions asked?

    1. MFD
      December 12, 2023

      Yes Nigel, they are already doing that. They are not even checked when the board the ferry. Its the eu present to Britain for daring to leave!

    2. Lynn Atkinson
      December 13, 2023

      They do and yes.

  36. Mike Wilson
    December 12, 2023

    The President who campaigned against Donald Trump’s extension of the border wall is now going ahead with 20 miles of new wall himself.

    I read that he had to do that because the money had already been allocated and the contracts were already signed.

    The fact is that millions, maybe billions, of people live such horrible lives that they will do anything to escape. The countries they come from are either corrupt or repressive and they have no chance of a decent life. Given it seems one only has one chance at life, you can’t blame people for migrating. I figure we have to budge up.

    1. Timaction
      December 12, 2023

      It won’t be long the English will be fleeing their homeland from the imported 3rd world and their values and beliefs. Legacies are wholly responsible.

    2. Everhopeful
      December 12, 2023

      Until you fall off the end of the bench?

    3. Clough
      December 12, 2023

      No-one’s blaming migrants for wanting to live a better life in a country that offers them opportunities, welfare benefits etc. The issue is whether British people here should be expected to cope with the serious consequences of mass migration for their quality of life.

      People who can’t find a dentist or a place to rent, or have many others in front of them on a long waiting list for medical treatment, may feel they’ve already had to ‘budge up’ quite enough, thank you, Mike.

  37. Original Richard
    December 12, 2023

    “The government is battling the illegals but needs to concentrate more on the legals running at almost 20 times more than the small boat people.”

    Yes, the requirement for “shops, power stations, water works, schools, surgeries, hospitals and roads” may be 20 times less for “small boat people” but what about the costs of additional security, barristers, lawyers, courts and prisons etc. plus the danger to the public of over 100,000 arrivals composed mostly of young men of fighting age with no ID and with completely alien cultures, aims and allegiances?

    The cost to our nation of this uncontrolled immigration, both legal and illegal, will be enormous.

  38. Lynn Atkinson
    December 12, 2023

    Like South Africa, the U.K. Government needs to withdraw from the UN Migration Treaty. South Africa is also battling millions of migrants – all legal because in the AU, like the EU, there are no borders.

  39. Michael Saxton
    December 12, 2023

    Just stop ALL migration except a controlled number of singleton students and freeze it for five years. We are already vastly overloaded with immigrants and the strain on our exchequer and infrastructure is intolerable. Illegals must be immediately returned to the safe EU country they set sail or departed from. We are pussyfooting around wasting time, energy and vast amounts of taxpayers pounds pursuing flawed alternatives eg Rwanda. Why is this government incapable of taking really positive robust action and get this matter sorted out once and for all?

    1. BOF
      December 12, 2023

      M S

  40. Bert+Young
    December 12, 2023

    We – like most economically developed countries , are overloaded with migrants ; we cannot sustain this situation and action on an international scale is required to tackle the problem . Some migrants bring skills and are not a drag but the vast majority are not ; illegals – well , they should simply be kicked out . Europe seems to be waking up to the problem in a much more determined way with border closures and stronger statements of public resentment . Maybe now the ECHR and other bodies will note the change and keep their noses and mouths shut .

  41. Lindsay+McDougall
    December 12, 2023

    Why can’t you just say zero population growth (ZPG) and specify the measures needed to achieve it? (Hint: we white British are already doing our bit).

  42. mancunius
    December 12, 2023

    A friend who lives in the Thames Valley is upset that his rather isolated immediate neighbourhood is to have a massive new housing estate foisted on it, with no additional infrastructure. No GP surgery, no shops, no new main roads – it is just to become a suburb from which the entire new population will have to drive to the town centre for everything, along a single existing highway.
    My friend is also full of praise for his Tory MP, who is very supportive of immigration, both from the EU and from the rest of the world. He says she is a ‘tremendous local MP’.
    I have attempted to help him join up the dots, but he cannot ‘really cannot see the signal’.

  43. Ralph Corderoy
    December 12, 2023

    We now have an NHS manpower plan, probably largely thanks to your continued lobbying. Presumably, as well as saying ‘We need to recruit N nurses in year Y to cover demand growth and those leaving’ it says whence they come. Whether new nurses trained here, old ones lured back into NHS nursing, and imports trained abroad at the other countries’ expense. How much would severely cutting legal immigration nobble the manpower plan’s assumptions?

    1. mancunius
      December 12, 2023

      Take a look round the hospital ward to see who the patients are, and ‘whence they come’. For every immigrant working as a nurse there is a multiple of ten who are either not working as anything, or claiming in-work benefits, and using the NHS.
      We need the NHS replaced by a tiered, contributory health system funded and used by those who have paid adequate amounts of tax to justify their use.

  44. Berkshire Alan
    December 12, 2023

    In short, National identity and culture, amongst many other things.
    Almost impossible to put a price on that, as once it’s gone, it’s gone.

    1. Everhopeful
      December 12, 2023

      Hear, Hear!!
      Spot on.

  45. Peter Gardner
    December 12, 2023

    The UK is a walk-over and a soft touch for both legal and illegal migrants. It’s up to the Government to address it. Nobody else can. But the Government hasn’t the political will. It lacks the political will because half the Conservative Party opposes anything being done. This is how the impetus for riots and people taking the law into their own hands is grown and nurtured: the elites ignoring or defying majority sentiment of the population – as they did with Brexit. When the backlash boils over into violence, be in no doubt the blame should be directed at the Tory Party.

  46. formula57
    December 12, 2023

    Biden cannot get wall monies reappropriated to another purpose so evidently has no choice but to build.

    O/T Your 23 September diary re the Bank’s bond sale losses – sent to my MP and my weekly reminders seeking a response have produced one. Alas, it remains 649 wasters to 1 working for the people. I am told the Bank is independent, the sales are a necessary anti-inflation measure and apparently it would not be appropriate for an MP to question its methods! I have replied in Redwoodesque terms with a renewed call for action.

  47. MWB
    December 12, 2023

    In addition to the measures you outline, we also need to urgently locate illegals who should not be here, and then deport them, as the Germans and Danes are doing.

  48. a-tracy
    December 12, 2023

    Where are they all settling? London, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow?

    Is this why London looks and seems like a foreign country? We can’t say what we think about this. It is taboo. When British people move to London for work, they have to pay private rentals at £800 per month for a single-person shared room in an HMO or £2100 for a one-bedroomed flat because there are no social homes to rent anymore, no matter how impoverished you or your family are.

  49. Berkshire Alan
    December 12, 2023

    Why when everyone, well nearly everyone appears to be suggesting that Ai will be taking over more and more jobs, do we require more and more people in the Country, surely it will eventually mean that we have fewer people in work, and more people on benefits of some sort, which will mean more expense for the fewer taxpayers who are needed to fund it all.
    Why simply not stop all immigration for a period, take stock of actually where we are, and then take simple steps sort matters out for our future.

  50. Ian B
    December 12, 2023

    Lord Hague warns Conservatives could be ‘permanently’ ousted from power
    Former party leader calls for unity before Rishi Sunak’s Rwanda Bill vote and says rebel MPs ‘have only got opposition to look forward to’
    Which rebel does he refer to. Those that refuse a Democratic HoC as its Legislator accepting the UK needs permanently to be ruled by the unelected unaccountable talking heads in Foreign Domains? Or those standing up for good Democracy and serving the UK beyond self.
    If the Sunak/Hunt government goes to the people in a GE as the sitting tenants of these pseudo-Conservatives asking to be voted back into power then the Conservatives all Conservatives will be permanently ousted from power

    1. Ian B
      December 12, 2023

      To days Media is full of ‘talking heads’ that have failed as MP’s, failed as Democrats, failed to Serve, all have supported the destruction of the UK from within. Now they are trying to stoke up ‘Project Fear’ all over

    2. Mark B
      December 12, 2023

      Pity he did not ask the party to unite behind Liz Truss MP rather than stabbing her in the back and installing the Little Usurper.

    3. Dave
      December 12, 2023

      Lord Hague behaves as Leader of the WEF Universal Global Government Party, which is currently in the ascendancy.

      Maybe we need a political realignment into authoritarians wanting top-down global government (e.g. as in France which is run from Paris or as the EU wants) and libertarians wanting devolved, bottom-up arrangements (as seen in Switzerland and advocated by the US Founding Fathers).

  51. robert Lewy
    December 12, 2023

    The question is what is the cost of large scale immigration.
    I have seen no attempt at an answer in this discussin.

    To fill the vacuum I refer to Patrick Minford’s study in 2016 on this very subject.

    The conclusion was that based on 1.2 million immigrants the additional cost os Health education and welfare benefits and associated infrastructure costs exceeded the tax revenue on immigrant earnings by £3.5 billion per annum.

    If one considers this calculation in relation to subsequent exploding immigration one cannot excape the conclusion that it is a very large number.

  52. G
    December 12, 2023

    Once again, straight to the heart of the issue – legal migration.

    But surely the universities are reliant on foreign student income? Surely business and industry is reliant on cheap foreign labour?

  53. Mike Wilson
    December 12, 2023

    I hope Australia has a lot of immigration places available for those of us who will soon, finally, had enough of watching our country turn into an overpopulated, third world dump.

    Everywhere you look around the world, wherever different races and cultures share the same space there is, sooner or later, trouble. And we have welcomed millions here who won’t allow their children to marry an English person.

    Why have politicians done this? Are they idiots? My sons are off to Australia next year. I’m praying we’ll find some way to follow them.

  54. Mike Wilson
    December 12, 2023

    I see some MP – for Darlington I think – told it like it is – to cries of ‘shame’ from the opposition benches and, no doubt, from some Tory MPs too.

    There is an argument for MOs to be paid £25k a year and be forced to live in a gritty area in their constituency. This might focus their minds on actually improving things.

    1. Diane
      December 13, 2023

      MW: Darlington ..? That brings to mind the northern MP for Hartlepool ( Con )who made an impassioned speech in plain English in the H O C some weeks ago & forcefully demanded removal of migrants from the area ( This was after the awful incident where a local man was, allegedly, killed by a migrant, all reported in the media at the time ) I now see yet another northern MP ( Con – Doncaster ) is telling it like it is in plain English and also being castigated. Seems that pussyfooting is preferred to plain speaking. Now see the UK GOV website page / section ‘ What you’ll get ‘ ( Asylum Support ) ” You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast. You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England”
      I’m also noticing week on week the drip feed of information to the public via the media about the ongoing legal resettlement of thousands of Afghan citizens to the UK presumably adding to the already settled 25.000+ already completed back in August. This is not meant to be disparaging but people do notice and judge accordingly.

  55. hefner
    December 12, 2023

    O/T but really worthwhile. A. Evans-Pritchard, Daily Telegraph, 12/12/2023 ‘My heat pump experience in France’.

  56. iain gill
    December 12, 2023

    So the “kicking it into the long grass” party, has kicked something else into the long grass… which was designed the kick something else into the long grass.

    Even when you choose not to decide you still have made a choice…

    Electoral oblivion awaits the Conservatives.

    1. Jeffrey Palin
      December 13, 2023

      I’ve witnessed governments intervention itself regards sponsoring health carers workers from abroad with tax payers money giving them 40 hour week contracts and undercutting British health carers pay and conditions who work work on zero hour contracts, forcing them out of their jobs.
      Disgraceful misuse of public funds against British working people.

      1. iain gill
        December 15, 2023


        they are even giving foreigners who have gained indefinite leave to remain and British passports simply for working here a few years on work visas… security clearance now. its a sham. people who are as anti British as it would be possible to find actually working on secret defence projects with security clearance. meanwhile it takes native Brits 6 months to get security clearance preventing them getting many roles which need security clearance.

  57. Derek
    December 13, 2023

    Indeed, a very good question, SJ. What is the true cost? Also, I ask, ‘can we actually afford it’? I presume the answer to that is a firm, “No”! And that means we are losing our money each and every year.
    Now isn’t securing taxpayers money a key task of the Treasury? In which case they should be focussing on this subject, continually pressing the Home Office and judiciary to get it right. And why not involve the OBR too? If they are up to it. Unfettered immigration has become a serious concern for the nation, and the hoards of anti-Israeli protesters blocking the streets of London each week are testament to the fact that multiculturalism has not worked.

  58. Frances
    December 13, 2023

    Students can study online. They dont need to come here.
    Stop chain migration. One doctor brought in 20 family members.

    1. Derek
      December 14, 2023

      More evidence, the policies of the Home Office and the FCDO require immediate updating. LOL it’s rather an oxymoron calling the latter, the Foreign, Commonwealth and DEVELOPMENT Office.

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