I reproduce today the views of an EV car owner sent to me recently. He agreed I couldĀ share this with you. As it reveals this is someone who bought into the greenĀ idea and wanted the EV to work for him. Experience was very disappointing. I have shortened and anonymised it:
“Some 5 months ago I was in a position to change my Petrol vehicle (Peugeot 3008) for an electric one. Unfortunately the 3008 has only just been released as a Hybrid and the full EV is not due until later next year (2024). As a result of this I was obliged to go to the E2008 which is a smaller vehicle. Despite this the E2008 was considerably more expensive than the petrol 3008.
The cost of a home charger was nearly Ā£1000 extra to have installed. Even the domestic “granny” charger was another Ā£250 to charge at home until a home charger could be installed.
I try to have “green thoughts” about the environment where possible and use Solar Panels and have recently installed a Combi Boiler.
However after using the Electric car for 5 months I have reverted back to a petrol driven model due to the following reasons.
My wife and I had range anxiety. Most manufacturers quote a range of in excess 200 miles. In practice the best I could get was about 150 miles in fair weather. With the recent cold weather I found that range could drop down to as little as 110 miles.
We had to make a number of trips to townsĀ about 120 miles awayĀ and required a charge on the way home. Of the 5 trips we made we found that none of the high speed type were working, after trying 5 different chargers we finally found a charger which was at a hotel. When we arrived at the hotel the charger was in use and the guy had only just started charging so we knew it would be about an hours wait. Also there is no queueing spaces so we had to double park until the space became free.
On our most recent trip away I wanted to use one of the regular chargers only to find there were already 3 cars waiting to use the one charger.Ā This would have meant waiting up to 3 hours before I could connect.
I also had a friend visit from Slovakia and we decided to take her out shopping by car. We knew that it would be risky trying to complete the journey without recharging on the way home. We tried 5 different chargers and found that they were not working.
We decided that the only way was to hope for the best and try to get home without the charge and made it home with just 11 miles spare and no reserve having turned off the heater on the way home to save energy.
On these occasions we were in contact with the Network Operators who tried to be helpful but could only suggest using low power chargers at supermarkets which could mean a stay of 7 hours, plus the devices have a maximum stay time of 2 to 3 hours without a penalty of Ā£100-150 for an overstay.
(He gave up on the EV )
Unfortunately I lost about 30% in the trade in of my electric vehicle after just 5 months and had to pay a premium of about 20% in buying a 2 year old petrol model.
Reply: This explains why EVs are a hard sell to non fleet buyers. The motor industry has here lost a customer who bought into the idea but was thwarted by the costs of the product and the difficulties of recharging when away from home.
January 2, 2024
My son has a well known American brand and is really enjoying it. He regularly goes to Cornwall with one charge on route and is enjoying the experience. While I understand the fears of the post it high lights the need for more charging points.
January 2, 2024
EV make little or no sense for most users even if you (quite wrongly) have fallen for the CO2 devil gas religion. They cause more CO2 overall not less, mainly in the manufacture of the car and short lived battery than just keeping your old car for longer. For a typical user of a larger EV then finance costs and depreciation (the batteries to not live that long) can easily be Ā£1 a mile alone, insurance is more expensive too and tyres wear often 30% higher. Anyway we have no spare low carbon electricity to charge them with. Plus who wants to hang aroung for hours waiting for them to charge.
Charging them using electricity generated from at power stations for gas, coal or wood at Draz make no sense at all, (driving heat pumps for such electricity does nothing for CO2 either) Charging them with electricity generated by a hybridās petrol engine is rather daft and inefficient too.
Plus of course the tax and subsidy advantages of EVs (petrol is circs 50% tax only 5% on electricity) will surely be withdrawn. Plus most people in cities have nowhere to park and charge them at home anyway.
Range in the cold with lights, wipers, on hilly roads especially when cold can nothing like the claimed range. The battery guarantee is often very poor indeed is you read all the small print.
January 2, 2024
@LifeLogic – “They cause more CO2 overall not less” everyone appears to know that. Over 60% of the production takes place in the highest Carbon Emitting Countries, by the highest Carbon emitting methods known to man then transported across the Planet by the highest Carbon emitting method. So the UK is now a high Carbon producing Country by proxy.
This Conservative Government in desperate need to signal its Virtue then steels money from the taxpayer to subsidies the Worlds highest Carbon emitters. Then to rub our faces into their mess they create Laws that more than 180 of the UK’s competing Nations don’t have on their own Statutes, therefore the Conservative Government creates costs on UK Industry and its People that more than 90% of the world doesn’t have to endure. That is a Conservative Government serving their electorate that then expects everyone to vote for more of the same
January 2, 2024
Indeed even if charge entirely on low carbon electricity (and they will not be) there is rarely any C02 reductions. Not that CO2 plant, tree and crop food is a problem anyway.
January 2, 2024
They will have to tax EVs in other ways rather than a tax on electricity. Pay per mile or higher road tax to recover all the losses they make by no longer get 50% of the fuel pump price. They will certainly find a way.
January 2, 2024
ā This explains why EVs are a hard sell to non fleet buyers. ā
Can someone tell me what sort of fleets buy electric vehicles?
In earlier times, many who had company cars would be travelling salesmen and the like who put in considerable mileage. Such people would not have time to waste recharging the vehicle during the day.
January 2, 2024
Peter
EV’s Purchased and popular because of personal tax breaks on Company cars as a benefit, much less tax on a so called low emission vehicle, hence why they became popular as Company took all the risks with servicing, insurance, devaluation and repairs.
January 2, 2024
Rishi Sunak’s claim to have cleared asylum backlog branded ‘misleading’ (rather a huge understatement).
Rishi Sunak pledged to clear the legacy of backlog of asylum claims by the end of 2023, and the Home Office says it has been achieved.
More blatant lies from Sunak, this on top of the ones in his New Year Message (on Growth, the NHS and Government Debt.). No one sensible is remotely fooled Sunak, we are not complete idiots Sunak. Endless blatant lies will get you nowhere.
But well done on lowering the inflation that you caused, but inflation at 4.5% double the target does not āreduceā the cost of living as you pretend does it?
January 2, 2024
Nor is it, in effect, a pay increase quite the reverse.
January 2, 2024
Of course, none of little Rishi’s actions has anything remotely to do with inflation appearing to lower (although watch out for underlying inflation) last time I looked the BOE was an independent body – LOL
zorro
January 2, 2024
I saw Cleverly claiming success but overlooking the 50,000 allowed to remain in one year and the pathetically feeble number actually deported again claiming an increase of 60% in one year when they’ve actually dropped by half over the last 5 years.
Totally dishonest and disingenuous Government and my wife and I agreed we don’t want to here from any Tory Government Minister or spokesperson again as they just………..lie.
In a later broadcast the Japanese Prime Minister and another Transport Minister came on air to explain what had happened in the plane crash in Tokyo. Totally honest/ believable, caring, compassionate.
Sir John, your lot need to go as no one believes a word they say anymore, they spin everything and we ALL know it. All talk and no delivery.
January 2, 2024
They can clear the asylum backlog as much as they like, but they’re not going home ….the staying in the UK just under a different government heading
January 2, 2024
I imagine they stamp a bit of paper with the claimant name on it, and say ‘Approved, you are in off you go’.
January 2, 2024
glen
An amnesty in all but name, which will attract even more !
Quite shameful !
January 2, 2024
What does he do while sitting around & waiting for it to charge or to wait for the charger to be free. What does he think the Tesla (I assume) will be worth after say 3 years. How is the electricity he uses to charge it is generated. I assume he has parking at home for it, but most city dwellers do not.
When fast charging esp. on hot days the cars pump out large amounts of wast heat to keep the batteries from over heating. A large waste of energy and the batteries last far less long if you use much rapid charging.
January 2, 2024
Well if itās a minimum 1 hour wait at an hotel, thatās lunch isnāt it? Add the cost of the meals to the charge
If itās a 7 hour wait, that and overnight stay. š¤Æ
January 2, 2024
Indeed perhaps quicker with all that charge time to cycles and better for the waistline than those charging lunches. Cyclist can refuel quickly with nice sandwiches.
āBRITAIN experienced a record number of excess deaths last year amid repeated NHS strikes and the continued cost of the pandemic.
Nearly 53,000 more people died in 2023 than normal ā the highest figure recorded in a non-pandemic year since the Second World War, Daily Telegraph analysis shows.ā Says the front page of the telegraph.
Yet no mention of (a possible ed) cause which seems to be the Covid Vaccine if you look at the timing of the figures and other data worldwide. Nor that post the Covid excess deaths it should be circa 5% lower not higher post the covid deaths. See Dr John Campbell on the excess death figures and the Death of Science videos and Prof Dalgleishās excellent book.
January 5, 2024
The 208 is a short range electric car, suited to the vast majority of journeys that people do in small cars. If your drive to the shops is frequently 120 miles then one with a bigger battery makes much more sense. If you do need to make a long journey then use one of the apps to find a supercharger and it will add 120 miles in 20 mins. Not as good as a normal car but fine for the occasional long trip.
I’ve had an electric 208 for 3 years / 28000 miles. Just used a Ā£250 granny charger and recharge outside the house 1-2 times a year.
January 2, 2024
It takes 10 minutes to refill a petrol or diesel car with no queues. Cheaper to buy, efficient, and reliable, why bother with anything else?
January 2, 2024
5 mins to fill and then you can drive another 800 miles not 100! Not likely to freeze to death either should you get snowed in somewhere remote the heater will still work.
January 2, 2024
But your not pretending to save the planet from the CO2 bogy gas, a plant food with out which we all die!! The Climate Change Committee are using the msm to feed the “highest UK temperature’s on record last year”. The problem is NO ONE NOTICED OR BELIEVE IT.
January 2, 2024
John, when are you going to do an article about the path to Net Zero. The bit where all regional airports are closed, non compliant (99%) of ships not being allowed to Dock impeding our imports and exports.
Closing down farming and the remainder of industry.
It’s all available on the HoL and CCC reports.
That would make interesting reading.
January 2, 2024
Indeed this religious agenda is insane it will kill millions if they really cut CO2 to net zero. They would starve or freeze to death.
January 2, 2024
…and all energy from europe interconnectors and manufactured goods from China ….we’re all green now !
January 2, 2024
How about an article on the road to Net Zero the next ruinous 5 year plan.
January 2, 2024
Not ruinous to China/ India or Russia, just our fools in Westminster who have bought the religion hook line and sinker!
Its time for an honest campaign this year. Legacies – We are going to bankrupt our Country and its industry on the Temple of Net Zero. We will allow and encourage all forms of mass immigration, waiting for any meaningful change until their is disorder at our A&E’s and Doctors surgeries as English taxpayers cannot get any services, pushed to the back of the queue by minimum wage workers and their entire families. Etc
January 2, 2024
Presumably he pre-charges to full before setting off? Has he done the journey in cold, wet weather using wipers, lights, radio and heating? Has he identified a good place to stop and always uses it?
January 2, 2024
He regularly goes to Cornwall with one charge on route. And how long does that take. Okay, sounds like he’s got a Tesla and can access Tesla’s supercharger network. My daughter in law has a Volkswagen ID4 as a company car. She’s had it about 6 months. It has been, and is, a complete nightmare. She drives a fair bit for work and spends her life with range anxiety. Half the chargers don’t work and the other half only give out about half (or less) of their rated power. She’s given up and the company has agreed to take it back. They’ve given her a hybrid instead. The charging infrastructure is simply not there. When they come to us (120 miles) they invariably have to charge on the way here or on the way back – adding a couple of hours to a 2 1/2 hour journey. Maybe, just maybe, if you have a Tesla and do most of your charging at home and don’t often need to charge on the road, they make sense.
January 2, 2024
Good morning.
In August I took delivery of an eHybrid. I had not owned a car for many, many years before, just hiring them when needed, public transport, my bike and walking be quite adequate at that time. But my circumstances have changed which necessitated me getting a car. I originally looked at getting a small petrol car but, when I did the maths, it being on a company lease plan, the cost to me personally was too great. This led me to look at hybrids (I could see at the time EV’s were a non-starter – pun intended) and so I settled on a larger car.
Yesterday I came back from the Cotswolds, a round journey of 240 miles. My average MPG for the journey there and back was 55.4mpg, which is quite bad. I have done trips which have been as good as 68.9mpg. So why was my trip yesterday worse than before. There are a number of factors, such as topography (the Cotswolds is quite hilly), but the main reason is I could not find a charger to top up my battery so had to rely on the engine instead to do the job. As I got into London I switched over to EV mode as this was much better for that kind of traffic.
I mention this as I too believe that governments should not be limiting peoples ability to make important choices. What next ? Where and what we should like in ? Or what type of haircuts (North Korea) that we should have ?
Dear Big State. Please stay out of my business.
January 2, 2024
Indeed stop rigging markets in cars, home heating, TV broadcasting, transports (public transport is hugely subsidised cars and trucks hugely over taxed), in schools (you pay three times over to use private ones four times if Starmer and Gove get their way with VAT on school fees), four times over already with private healthcare with IPT tax.
January 2, 2024
Also homes: jobs (mass immigration); the health and benefits market (adding millions who cost but have not paid) – just STAY OUT OF THE MARKET.
January 2, 2024
Indeed. How many of the mass migration people now make up the 5.6 million on welfare and the 7.4 million on English health waiting lists? Perhaps you could ask Sir John as your Government legislated non Equality laws for their preferred race, gender and religious characteristics. It appears the mass working migrants and students never go home and need replacing every year!
We desperately need English tax payer representation, we need Reform.
January 2, 2024
Steampunk/Heath Robinson.
EVs probably more about imposing totalitarianism than travelling.
We know that the powers tb do not want us to travel donāt we?
That personās car took the decision to turn off the heater!
Apparently a breathalyzing car is on the agenda too.
And all these dreadful cable-dependent gadgets that worm their way into our psyches!
Said gadgets of course are exerting more and more control.
January 2, 2024
Dwell also on the implications of Smart metresā¦not least the incredibly hard sell.
January 2, 2024
Smart-Meters = Government Scam
January 2, 2024
Sounds as though you have a PHEV? A plug in hybrid. These can be particularly inefficient. Most of them will do 20 to 30 miles on battery alone, and then change over to the petrol engine. This is great for short journeys within the range of the battery. On longer journeys, once the batteries are exhausted, the petrol engine is then lugging a motor and quite substantial, heavy battery around that are then contributing nothing. My hybrid does 60 mpg all the time. Local driving or motorway driving makes little difference. I have had 65 mpg on a motorway journey.
January 2, 2024
Indeed when on battery they are lugging a petrol engine round and when on petrol a battery and motor. An alternative to avoid this is keep an old diesel for long journeys and have a new cheap small EV city car for short city journeys and to save on ULEZ etc. muggings. But then you have two cars to fund, depreciate and park.
January 2, 2024
If you fill your tank to that what you need, plus a little extra and use the battery for town / city use they can be quite efficient. The battery is charged whilst the car is moving down hill or through regenerative braking, slightly increasing the range.
In the past I use to just fill up my car to the full, this too is weight that is lugged around, although it does reduce as you consume it.
The trick with PHEV’s is to use the battery around town with lots of stop / start motoring, and the engine on the motorway, with a battery top up at the other end. This I could not do on my trip to the Cotswolds as stated. The car I have is still miles better than my old car but, the underlying point of my post was, had the government not rigged the tax rules to favour EV’s and PHEV’s then I would have leased a smaller more efficient car that overall would be better for the environment.
January 2, 2024
Canāt see the point in this. I know two people who run Teslas and do some significant mileage and are happy with their cars.
The EV is the future and with billions going in to develop them will evolve significantly.
You should concentrate your efforts on the market share the Chinese are/will develop and their strategic control over rare metals.
The pathetic efforts and investment from the U.K. government are no more than rounding errors compared with elsewhere.
January 2, 2024
The EU is attempting to achieve energy independence through Green Energy. That is why it wants control of Ukraine’s mineral reserves of which lithium and rare earths alone are valued at up to US$12 trillion. To that end the EU and Germany blackmailed Zelensky three days after Russia invaded Ukraine: weapons hitherto refused, including Leapard 2 tanks, in exchange for signing over the future sovereignty of Ukraine to the EU.
January 2, 2024
+++
How about Gaza Marine?
1 trillion cubic feet of natural gas apparentlyā¦..
January 2, 2024
Flattening Gaza is extremely convenient for the construction of the Ben-Gurion canal as a competitor to the Suez canal (Egypt has joined BRICS+ this week).
Some other potentially big news today:Somaliland is leasing 20km of its coastline for 50 years to landlocked Ethiopia(which has also joined BRICS this week and is the second largest Orthodox Christian country in the world,after Russia).In return,Ethiopia becomes the first country to formally recognise Somaliland which is a breakaway from Somalia and the largest hitherto unrecognised state in the world.
Look where it sits on the map.
January 2, 2024
+++
Agree.
Whatever the objective it is always like ā Thereās gold in them there hillsā.
Look at Iraqā¦and all similar ā¦.always and for ever.
January 2, 2024
Do you think that Russia is not interested in those resources?
At least the EU has used a business-like approach to Ukraine.
January 2, 2024
I expect Russia probably is interested?
Why not?
Everyone used to be interested in spices and tulip bulbs and gold and diamonds.
Youād think theyād have learned their lesson by now.
The the whole miserable, greedy kit and caboodle.
January 2, 2024
Nigl,
I would be more convinced if your opinion and experience was first hand.
The EV is not the future in the UK. Principally because we are incapable of producing enough electricity or have sufficient grid capacity to move it around. Then there has been a lacklustre attitude to produce sufficient working chargers of uniform accessability. The greatest strategic danger is to be tied to one power source and to have to compete with every other user of that power source. UK government presides over all the above negatives and frankly they are not potty trained.
Why try to compete with a totalitarian monopoly to survive when there are acceptable alternatives. Long term the market will decide, not the Chinese or UK governments, neither of which can be trusted. Check out japanese and porsche developement work for the propulsion of road transport, not forgeting our own JCB.
To replace the excellent diesel SUV I ran in Spain would cost in excess of 40k so for less than that, later this year I will buy from a range of second hand candidates comprising the Jaguar F Type, the 840d BMW, or an unlikely Bentley Continental GT. All of which can sweep me around Europe in comfort without the downsides of what inspired SJRs contribution this morning.
January 2, 2024
Or as the Fairy Godmother said to Cinderella while waving her magic wand over a random pumpkin and six miceā¦
āGood luck with that!ā
January 2, 2024
Hybrids (especially self charging) may well be the future but fully electric is not.
January 2, 2024
Once people have decided to spend Ā£40-100k on an EV they tend not to want to admit, even to themselves, they were perhaps rather foolish. Keeping your old car is the best way to go for most people and for the environment as then new EV cars and batteries do not need to be mined and built . Wait for better tech and to see which way the market goes.
January 2, 2024
Indeed, over the last few years I feel that a lot of people have made decisions that they will regret, and will move heaven and earth to convince themselves that they were not duped.
zorro
January 3, 2024
Covid Vaccines perhaps?
January 2, 2024
In 10 years all EV will be made in China
January 2, 2024
very ‘green ‘ shipping all our cars round the world.
January 2, 2024
G C
Perhaps by then the CC fraud will have been exposed, we will once again be driving sensible, environmentally friendly ICE vehicles and China will have no market for their junk EV’s.
Yes, I know, a dream.
January 2, 2024
A recent YouTube video about the coal mining areas of Kentucky, West Virginia et al, and the decline of which has impoverished thousands of inhabitants, featured an interview with someone from what’s left of the coal industry where he chuckled as he pointed out that more EV’s means more demand for coal as there isn’t the capacity for charging from renewables.
The Manhattan Institute report of last July, “Electric Vehicles For Everyone – The Impossible Dream”, may interest anyone considering buying an EV. Without tax payer subsidies they may well have a bleak future.
January 2, 2024
It is hard to know whether it is the drive to green energy itself that is the problem or it being implemented in the UK incompetently. I suspect it is largely incompetence driven by a false sense of urgency and thus not allowing normal market forces to operate.
I am interested in this because, my petrol car having completed 210,000km falutlessly (Toyota so not surprising), I need a new car. I was discussing this with my brother, a practicing engineer, whereas I switched occupations out of engineering some years ago. We agreed that from the point of view of engineering alone and pollution (CO2 is not pollution) an electric car makes a lot of sense. An electric car held the land speed record in 1900. A hybrid appeals ( I don’t live in UK) particularly because they have much better fuel consumption than an equivalent petrol car and eliminate the problem of finding an available charger where and when you need one. Like using gas for electric power generation as a transition fuel, hybrids would have allowed the UK more time to build the charging infra-structure while still significantly reducing CO2 emissions.
The other big issue is battery technology which is still immature so everyone in UK is being forced to buy into what engineers call not the leading edge but the bleeding edge of technology that will probably prove ill-advised and a great opportunity cost. Remember the flourescent light bulb mandate? It was a complete waste as they were all replaced by LEDs within a few of years. The government seems to be making the same mistake but on a massive scale. What is the government’s plan for disposal of many thousands of tonnes of already obsolescent Li-ion batteries when the switch is made to sodium or other battery technologies?
January 2, 2024
The projection was for 70% of cars to be EV by 2035. This projection has been halved to 35% by both Ford in the US and VW in Europe, showing problems with EVs are everywhere.
In reality 16% of the cars are EVs but this dropped from 17% last year.
China has just started battery tariffs to the US.
EV insurance has doubled, tripled and quadrupled because a small accident requires the batteries to be replaced. This also means older EV cars will be written off after minor accidents.
We have seen peak EV.
EV owners will make substantial financial losses over Ā£10,000.
My conclusion is that buying an EV is a very expensive vanity project. I laugh every time I see one.
January 2, 2024
+1
I go to the car forums and everyone, whether they have an EV, Hybrid or fossil fuelled car are complaining about the large rises in insurance.
EV’s are today’s fad and tomorrow’s scrap.
January 2, 2024
16% full EVs or 16% full EVs plus hybrids? Hybrid are really essentially petrol cars (but heavier and cost more).
January 2, 2024
I heard, sorry no names were given, that some insurance companies refuse to cover EVs? Please share if you can atest to that.
January 2, 2024
Correct Javelin – A world leading vanity project, just like wind-turbines & heat-pumps ….its all about our government getting another gold star from the UN at the expense of its people and economy
January 2, 2024
There’s another reason insurance costs are so high. We’re not hearing much about that Luton Airport car park fire are we ?
Reply We do need a definitive report on what caused these various fires. The Luton fire included a denial that it was an EV that caught fire, and a counter that it was possibly a hybrid with a battery fire. Also would be good to know the basis for insurance charges as I have seen arguments that EVs do not cost more to insure, sometimes attributed to extra costs of damage repair as the battery is built into the chassis and sometimes to general risks. Need some facts about these issues.
January 2, 2024
The write off for the Luton fire is reported to be of the order of Ā£30 million. That is just Ā£1 per insurance policy on 30 million vehicles, but it does make a very good excuse for jacking prices 30-50%.
January 2, 2024
I have had an electric car for four years and I cannot imagine returning to an ICE car. The initial purchase costs were expensive but the running costs are very low. Charging is not an issue. At home I use solar electric on sunny days and on the road there is an extensive fast charger network on motorways. On long journeys the navigation system selects a route to my destination to include any necessary fast chargers and stoping every couple of hours to recharge is a benefit to driver safety. The car gets frequent software updates while parked on my drive and is now a far more capable vehicle than it was when I first bought it, I have had zero breakdowns in the four years and one Recall that was done by the visiting engineer on my drive and took half an hour, Otherwise no repairs in four years and NO scheduled services needed. I anticipate keeping the car for another four years, The message is do your research against your own Use Case BEFORE you buy. All electric cars are not equal.
Reply The electricity supplied by the grid is usually mainly coming from fossil fuels and wood
January 2, 2024
āThe initial purchase costs were expensive but the running costs are very lowā Yes but the finance costs and depreciation alone can be Ā£1 to 50p per mile alone yes the electricity at home can be cheaper but not taxes as much as petrol which is 50%+ tax. Use more tyres as heavier too, Circa 30%. Keeping your old car is almost always far cheaper, produces less CO2 and has no range issues. EV insurance rather higher too plus parking at home is needed. In london this might cost you Ā£100k extra on you house to buy.
January 2, 2024
No services in four years? I hope you are not behind me next time you brake.
January 2, 2024
I think the key thing is you have a space to park and charge your car. I was in an Uber (in London) the other day and the driver said he had gone back to an ICE car having had an EV – despite the strong financial incentives – as he couldnāt rely on the range. At the end of his days work he had to reckon on one hour to charge his car and would often have to wait an hour or two for a charger to be free.
Perhaps the products will improve, but until they do consumers will be wary. As Sir John says, they arenāt all that green as they are generally powered in reality by fossil fuels, just at one remove. Then add in the manufacturing and its many years before most EVs re likely to be CO2 reductive.
January 2, 2024
Comparative running costs of EVs versus ICEs (petrol or diesel) are distorted by the different levels of taxation applied at different points of the ownership experience. Currently taxes are piled on ICE powered cars while EVs are subsidised with tax breaks. If/when the EV share of the car market grows bigger then that will no longer be sustainable as the government loses tax revenues from the sale and use of ICE engined cars.
January 2, 2024
Stopping every couple of hours! Who has the time? What company can afford that on full pay? So to the cost add in 2 hours pay for an accountant (say) one charge going and one charge coming home, add VAT to that and the initial expensive cost of the car and added insurance. What is the overhead the customer going to be asked to pay?
January 2, 2024
Thatās your choice and your circumstances ā¦.but what about the 2/3s of the country that live in an apartment or terrace house and canāt charge from home, having to rely on high street charging
January 2, 2024
“The message is do your research against your own Use Case BEFORE you buy.”
This.
Don’t, for example, buy a 2 seater sports car and then complain when your family of 5 can’t all fit in it. Buy the right vehicle for your needs.
The average car journey in the UK is less than 10 miles and EVs work perfectly well for the many people who only do those shorter journeys.
Reply You do not undertake an average journey, but a range of journeys including some long ones
January 2, 2024
We have a plug in hybrid, mainly because for this vehicle 90% of our journeys are between 10 & 20 miles. For these trips it runs totally on the electric motor. Over Christmas we did a round trip of 300 miles without needing to stop and either recharge the battery or fill-up with fuel.
The app that comes with the vehicle showed that the petrol engine returned 62mpg and 59 miles were travelled using just the electric motor.
So, this works for us [at the moment] but, we are in a position to charge at home where others can’t
And a bit of a scam from the electric suppliers seems to be that you can charge your car at an advantageous rate over night (8p per kWh) but they hike their standard rate to cover this. Typically EDF are on a standard rate of 27.5p per kWh but if you go for the “Special” EV rate that goes up to 34+p per kWh so you need to do your maths carefully on that…
January 2, 2024
Not everyone does long journeys. Some members of my immediate family never drive more than about 30-40 miles one way, and most of the time not even that far. An EV would work perfectly well for them. I tend to do fewer, longer journeys (150+ mile round trips), so I would (and have) make a difference choice until such time as the EVs with the sort of range I would want (400+ miles) become available at a price I am willing to pay (which they currently are not). I expect that, with improvements in technology over time, that will happen.
Please re-read my last sentence.
January 2, 2024
Most of us hope for future improvements – so why buy now?
January 2, 2024
If current EVs meet your usage requirements, why not consider them, especially used?
Let someone else take the depreciation hit, just as with petrol and diesel cars.
January 2, 2024
My neighbour has a 19 reg Tesla. He wanted to px it after 3 years but was offered Ā£19k
Purchase price Ā£47k. He’s still using it now nearly 5 years old because he can’t sell it for a sensible price. Battery capacity is down to 82%.
Say no more.
January 2, 2024
…and still the sea level isn’t rising, the ice in Antarctic remains the same, polar bear still about, the barrier reef is in good health and we still have four seasons …so whats it all for ?
January 2, 2024
err….money, control, virtue signalling and keeping up with the Jones’.
January 2, 2024
But the data shows that the average sea level is rising and the amount of ice in Antarctica is reducing (and playing a part in those rising sea levels).
Average sea levels rose a little under 5cm in the last decade. It’s not uniform globally either, being, for example, higher than average on the eastern seaboard of the USA. The US is predicting up to a 30cm rise in average sea levels on its coasts in the next 30 years. 40% of the US population are estimated to live near a coast and be vulnerable to those rising sea levels, and they are by far the only country with such concerns.
Reply Very few have a home that would get wet from a further 5 cm rise
January 3, 2024
That is a very “burying your head in the sand” reply. What happens when that 5cm becomes another, and another, and over time it becomes 1m (which for the UK projections show it could be by the end of the century), not 5cm. Do nothing now and it will be too late then.
Have a look at how much more the Thames Barrier has been closed in recent years compared to back when it was first built back in the 80s. Ask yourself why is that? (Or better still, find out why.)
January 2, 2024
Great. When I’m in the area can I charge from your home solar power then ? It’s a good idea actually – all you people who have home charging stations should be forced to allow other people to use them when they are not using them themselves – that will give a good boost to charger availability.
January 2, 2024
I did do my research James and concluded that I could effectively drive for free by purchasing an ICE (rather than it’s equivelent EV) simply because the initial difference in purchase price was large enough to fund both petrol and VDE (at the milage i do annually) for many years. I’ve given these numbers before, so won’t repeat them.
. Just assume that the price difference can easily be upwards of Ā£10K and work out how much petrol that would buy you at (say Ā£1.40/litre) – that’s 7,143 litres or 1,587 (UK) gallons. My car averages more than 40mpg – so that’s 63,492 miles I can drive “for free” – with no addition to my household electricity bill, no expensive fast chargers and absolutely no range anxiety….
I’m sorry EVs work for some people but the numbers simply don’t add up for many…
January 2, 2024
IanT
+1
January 2, 2024
You can’t circumvent the fundamental laws of finance and buying an EV simply doesn’t make financial sense. No wonder the State tries to foist them in such a surreptitious manner, guilt tripping.
January 2, 2024
āYou canāt circumvent the fundamental laws of financeā (or those of physics) even if many moronic scientifically illiterate people in government (and on the Climate Change Committee) think you can.
Batteries need to be cheaper, lighter, quicker to charge, far longer range, far less depreciation & need more capacity per KG when/if the scientists sort these issue then they might make more sense. Also far less embedded energy in manufacture of the battery.
āFor a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled.ā
Richard P. Feynman
January 2, 2024
I agree DOM …and if EVs where so good and popular, why the need for state subsidy
January 2, 2024
“No wonder the State tries to foist them in such a surreptitious manner, guilt tripping.” – Usual MO undertaken a couple of times over the last few years on different things such as experimental vaccines, heat pumps etc….
zorro
January 2, 2024
Sir Stephen Powis (NHS CEO) warned: āThis January could be one of the most difficult starts to the year the NHS has ever faced.ā. āSix consecutive days of industrial action comes at one of our busiest periods ā the action will not only have an enormous impact on planned care, but comes on top of a host of seasonal pressures such as Covid, flu, and staff absences due to sickness ā all of which is impacting on how patients flow through hospitals.
Well Sir, ditch the vast bloated management, become more efficient & pay the junior doctors and medical staff properly so they do not leave. My relative, a first year junior doctor in London, has negative disposable income after student loan interest, rent on a small room, commuting costs, council taxā¦what is he expected to live on further borrowings or parents? He already has had 6 years training and 100k of student debts.
Ditch the diversity and net zero crap in the NHS for a start.
January 2, 2024
If I’m really lucky I may be driving for another fifteen or so years (I’m getting on in years). If I get myself a replacement ICE car by around 2033/2034 that will see me out.
The green zealots can keep their overpriced electric cars and I’ll stick with my well established petrol engine thanks.
Though having said that, the way Government and local authorities are behaving we may all be driven (no pun intended) off the road by then.
January 2, 2024
If you believe the lies that politicans and the media tell you end up with poison medications and cars that don’t work. Next you’ll have a chip in your head and live in a 15 minute prison.
January 2, 2024
At the next general election we will not forget that it was a Conservative Prime Minister who banned the future purchase of new cars that work properly, and which are preferred by the vast majority of people.
January 2, 2024
You would probably only buy an EV if you believed in Net Zero, or you wanted to virtue-signal. Neither good reasons, in my view. Of course if you live I a Ulez zone you might be pushed into it.
January 2, 2024
To Reply āThe electricity supplied by the grid is usually mainly coming from fossil fuels and woodā Wood is young coal imported on diesel ships- old coal is better for the environment and cheaper too.
This will larely remain the case until we sort out better nuclear as wind and solar cannot be stored cost effectively.
January 2, 2024
Did all of this start because of āpeak oilā?
Was that a reality?
Mr Bates vs The Post Office is a pretty stunning mini series ( content wise).
Waiting for JR ( actor) to appear.
Of course they wanted to get rid of the PO for years ( to āharmoniseā with the EU) and we now know that they have not ONE SINGLE CARE for the ordinary person!
Ā£300,000 legal costs charged to one postmaster who was defending himself in court!!
Reply I and a few other MPs stated in the House that it was very unlikely on the advent of a new computer system a whole lot of honest and respect PO managers suddenly became fraudsters. I also pressed for early end generous compensation when even the PO had to agree some of it was their problem.
January 2, 2024
That was an absolute shocker of a case – if that doesn’t convince anyone of the non-benevolence of the state, nothing will…. They knew the truth and yet still went ahead to persecute these people because they didn’t want to lose face.
zorro
January 2, 2024
+++
Absolutely!
I donāt think Iād ever take a job now where you signed to say youād be liable for loss or discrepancy.
Far too risky.
January 2, 2024
Reply to reply
Yes. I knew that you took an interest in the case.
I wonder whether MPsā input will be mentioned later in the series?
Iāve only seen the first episode.
Terrible what they did to those people.
January 2, 2024
Small railway footbridge takes longer to build than Empire State Building in the Telegraph.
Network Rail’s construction of the bridge at Theale station is more than 10 years overdue and ‘a case study in British inefficiency’
January 2, 2024
reminds me of the footbridge over the tracks at Twyford some years ago. By the time it was done I thought they would fix ‘Site of Special Interest ‘ on it.
January 2, 2024
But it takes ten years just to write the environmental impact study, the diversity & inclusion plan, the climate change decarbonisation plan and net-zero compliance statement
January 2, 2024
Glen
You forgot the public enquiry.
January 2, 2024
A graphic illustration of how one particular instance of Net Zero browbeating shows it in its true colours as the Great Leap Backward: a sound and reliable private car, one major symbol of quality of life for the non-elite, substituted with an expensive and inferior alternative. Indeed arguably an immoral alternative, once the movement of all that earth (by diesel powered heavy plant) to get at the raw materials is reckoned in, to say nothing of the nature of the labour involved to reach the end product.
January 2, 2024
Private enterprise provided and provides the network of petrol stations that ICE drivers use. They were not provided by the state. The state is obliging car manufacturers to build and sell EV cars. Why do the manufacturers, or for that matter someone else, not provide networks of chargers for their customers? That is what Elon Musk did. What the government must provide is the generating and transmission capacity to deliver all the electricity that is going to be required.
January 2, 2024
We have reached this deplorable point through the medium of left wing fantasy.
(āOh I beg to differ MY EV got us from Land’s End to John o’Groats on one single sparkletā)
And of course so-called conservatives FELL FOR IT!
January 2, 2024
Jeremy Hunt is about to flood the UK with Chinese made EVās, made by the country which is top coal for power user and which is increasing coal use (opening about 90 new coal powered stations a year).
This is part of the āgreen speechā coal = green (if it is Chinese.
January 2, 2024
What could possibly be influencing Jeremy Hunt about that….?
zorro
January 2, 2024
Yeah but he has skin in the game
January 2, 2024
I wonder who he’s married to and what political party/Country she supports?
January 3, 2024
Don’t ask him, he got it wrong when asked.
January 2, 2024
The idea of the EV is as old as that of the ICE engined car. EVs didn’t catch on because they were too expensive. The current EV wave owes everything to government incentives and propaganda. There are huge benefits from the use of electric motors and batteries, which is why they are so ubiquitous in so many other applications. But that use did not result from government force feeding but from technological developments that proved a better alternative to the prevailing sources of energy, often manual or steam driven. EV technology still has a long way to go to match the ICE. I do not object to government contributing to research into alternatives to the ICE but I do object very strongly to it attempting to force feed consumers into immature EV technology using my/taxpayers money.
January 2, 2024
If you want to go green, ditch the car and cycle.
My morning cereal of about 400 calories powered me to work, enjoying the great British outdoors, with energy to spare until lunchtime.
Had I taken the diesel car (to whimp out because of a little rain), it would have consumed about 1/2 litre of fuel or 9,000 calories.
The only rare earth elements might be found in small batteries for lights and the energy to make the steel for the bicycle frame is a small fraction of what’s needed for any car.
Tell me you want to get an electric car to go green and I tell you you’re a phoney. Get a bike.
January 2, 2024
Dave
Ok for perhaps younger people who have no disabilities, and when the distance is reasonably short, with no need to carry anything like tools, shopping or a passenger, or when going to a business meeting etc etc..
Problem is with cycle theft so high, is actually managing to keep a bike for more than a few weeks at a time. !
Nothing against cycling for those who want to, indeed was a keen cyclist myself for many years when younger. Indeed used to cycle to work every day way back in the 1960,s as did many thousands of others, we even had a wide and separated cycle track on both sides of the A4 Great West Road, at the time knowns as the Golden Mile of West London, but then employees used to have many secure cycle racks for their workers to use.
January 2, 2024
We have a Conservative Government that doesnāt give Two-Hoots (not a pun for Wokingham Cheese) about the environment, the Country or its People. Everything done is to Signal Virtue while avoiding the job at hand.
Why does the UK have Laws that the competing World does not, why does the UK Industry and its People have to fight for a living when competing with the wider World with one hand tied behind its back?
Some one somewhere has it in their head that signalling a virtue wins votes, and a thriving economy doesnāt ā that the New Conservative World brought to you by those you will have to endorse come the election.
January 2, 2024
We have a weird lot in Parliament and not just in this Conservative Government. We do not know what tomorrow will through at us and as it is said you need to expect the unexpected. To that end sensible caring people try to create the environment and framework for a backup plan, in most instances that mean money, wealth, for a Country that means a strong resilient earning economy to have the resources at itās disposal to cope.
This Conservative Government doesnāt believe in that, they appear to be maliciously destroying the Country for know other reason than personal self-gratification. That is why they are robbing the Country to pay to exasperate situations rather than doing their job controlling their excessive expenditure creating a framework for a vibrant resilient economy. If EVās were a necessity going forward why isnāt the money going into the UK instead of subsidising foreign competitors that are not competing in this bizarre race.
Itās the same old thing it always has been āItās the economy Stupidā , the UKās economy not everyone else’s
January 2, 2024
OK, so as I thought it’s a charging issue. Don’t forget money was available to invest in 40,000 extra charging points – Kwarteng cancelled it as part of the “fiscal event”.
I don’t have any problems charging my Tesla at home off my solar panels and I think the “range anxiety” issue is pro-fossil fuel propaganda. This Christmas I used it to drive a comfortable 200 miles from Berkshire to N Yorkshire. I could have done it on a single charge but I stopped at the Gonerby Moor service station for a coffee and a top up rapid charge, which cost me Ā£12.48. The charge, not the coffee.
It’s horses for courses – if you want long distance driving buy a large saloon EV. For inner city driving – where there are more chargers – buy a smaller one. Especially a very cheap one-year old example with less than 10,000 miles. Don’t buy a brand new one.
Year to date 286,846 BEV cars have been sold here – source SMMT. About half of them were bought by private motorists. EV’s are the future of transport in this country. Get over it.
January 2, 2024
“if you want long distance driving buy a large saloon EV.” – Yeah, they are so cheap aren’t they?
zorro
January 2, 2024
How about ‘stop’ telling us what to buy and how to live ….it was once called democracy & freedom of choice
January 2, 2024
that seems such a long time ago!
January 3, 2024
@glen cullen
I suggest that you visit Rwanda for a very long break
January 3, 2024
Illegal foreign criminals shouldn’t have freedom of choice
January 2, 2024
You don’t have any problems charging your expensive Tesla at home off your solar panels ? Good for you. I live in a flat with nowhere to put solar panels or a personal charging point. So I’m not going to vote for a party that requires me to buy an EV, or a heat pump come to that. And there are more people like me than like you. So I suppose it’s YOU who’ll have to get over it. Just like Remainers will have eventually to get over Brexit (exports from UK to EU at the highest level since records began I see).
January 2, 2024
Excellent
January 2, 2024
It is not just full blown EVs that are cause problems. I recently decided to replace my Subaru Forrester. The new model makes a great virtue out of being a self charging Hybrid, but that brings with it a considerable reduction in range, due to the space taken up by the electric motor and battery, which is clearly taken from the fuel tank. In my old (petrol) Forrester, while it was thirsty round the lanes, I could be confident of getting over 450 miles from a tank full; with the new one, I would be lucky to get 270. That means I cannot avoid buying petrol at Motorway prices on a trip North. Added to that, while the new car’s petrol consumption is better on short trips, the old one was significantly more economical on the Motorway. It is easy to see how much petrol the hybrid quality is saving, and it has never exceeded two pints on a fill up. A total waste of time and money!
January 2, 2024
The more rational response to change how we consume as in cutting waste. Having a New Car forced on you is waste, its is a Carbon consuming waste. Having a New Boiler forced on you is waste a Carbon producing waste.
Then add in this Conservative Government is forcing people only to buy foreign production from the highest Carbon producing Countries it becomes a tired joke on us all. Chinese energy is created from Coal Burning power stations. Your VW Car hitting UK streets is produce by VW owned Coal Burning power stations. These 2 entities alone emit more Carbon than a life time of a UK produced petrol car.
The PMās much heralded subsidising a battery assembly plant in Somerset is no different, this is not a UK investment it is giving UK Taxpayer money to 2 of the worldās greatest Carbon emitters to import from their home Countries components to assemble a battery in the UK.
Likewise, the trumpeting of taxpayer money being pumped into steel production seemingly in the UK is another sleight of hand. It is the paying foreign companies that take the UK taxpayer money home and to shut down speciality steel production in the UK and import it back from those same high Carbon producing companies abroad. The few jobs saved in the UK are just for low grade recycled bits of steel that are as cheap on any market. So, expertise and know how lost and the Taxpayer pays.
January 2, 2024
I had a choice to make 12 months ago when I wanted to change my 22 year old Japanese 3 litre petrol 4 x 4 which returned 18 mpg (used to be 24 mpg before the latest ethanol was introduced into the mix)
After much soul searching I settled on a 4 month old Mercedes GLB220 Premium Plus all wheel drive model, a 2 litre Diesel powered Turbo charged SUV with 7 seat option. Over the last year it has averaged 45 mpg in total, on lengthy journeys to the South of France and Cornwall, it returns 50 MPG with a range of 600 miles plus, and fill up time of 5 mins.
I had spent a year looking at a range of alternatives and models including hybrids, but the last straw for hybrid and EV was seeing a 3 hour queue last Christmas for an EV charging point at Membury services on the M4.
Our voluntary stop was for a simple comfort break as traffic was very heavy at the time, the thought of being stuck there for very many hours was an absolute turn off (excuse the pun).
A hybrid vehicle of any sort seems to add about Ā£10,000 to the purchase cost of a simple ICE alternative, and the additional weight of batteries makes little sense on long runs or motorway use.
If you are only going to complete very short runs then I can perhaps see the sense in an EV if you are only ever going to charge it from home, but the up front cost for such a vehicle for that sort of use is prohibitive.
The Mercedes with 1,900 miles only was purchased from a main dealer at a Ā£6,000 discount on new, plus a few extra’s thrown in.
I tend to keep my cars for about 20 years so depreciation is really not a big factor, the only disappointment is that as it is regarded by the Government as a luxury vehicle (new cost over Ā£40,000) it attracts an extra Ā£400 per year Vehicle excise duty for it’s first 4 years.
Our second car a 2 lite diesel 17 year old Toyota Corolla, daily used for shorter trips, but still averaging 43 MPG overall, will come up for replacement in about 5 years time, I will then do another comparison, meanwhile I am very , very happy with the recent purchase above as it suits all of my needs, with no compromises.
January 2, 2024
BA : āI had a choice to make 12 months ago when I wanted to change my 22 year old Japanese 3 litre petrol 4 x 4 which returned 18 mpg (used to be 24 mpg before the latest ethanol was introduced into the mix)ā
For anyone who has noticed a large increase in petrol consumption as a result of using E10 petrol I recommend trying E5 petrol (search for 99 octane in preference to the 97). The calculations for my vehicle show the reduced fuel consumption outweighs the extra cost of the fuel and the vehicle runs better ā and it works far better in my ice garden tools too.
January 2, 2024
This is what I do, use E5 and drive at a steady pace.
January 2, 2024
O R
Indeed that is absolutely true for some vehicles, but that means the government forced some of us to use a higher cost octane fuel than was originally needed, and thus increased our motoring costs at a stroke, because the lower octane with additives did not become less expensive !
January 2, 2024
There is no CAGW and the Net Zero Strategy, which in itself makes no sense as doubling CO2 does not increase GHG warming because of IR saturation, as shown by Happer & Wijngaarden, is a fifth column communist device to impoverish and control us.
At this present time EVs do not save on CO2 emissions and are less practical and more expensive. A capitalist approach would have been to simply allow evs to grow organically from small, second car town run-abouts for those fortunate enough to have their own driveway but instead the communist stick is being imposed to force us to use evs, starting this year with Ā£15K fines for car manufacturers exceeding their ice sales quota.
As well as impoverishment through the expense and impracticality of evs the reason for evs, and electrification in general, is the control it gives the state via the chargers and smart meters. Electrification means private travel can be stopped at a stroke either for individuals or for the whole country. Very useful for either control or simply because of a lack of electricity when the wind isnāt blowing.
[BTW I read this morning that a fire charging an EV at home is potentially excluded from home insurance. The ev has to be charged at least 15 metres away from the insured building.]
January 2, 2024
Correct
January 2, 2024
A government that acts first and thinks only after is backward: As unfit for purpose as EVs.
January 2, 2024
Hi sir John
First of all it grieves me that a french car was purchased when there are British made cars available, I know we say we don’t make anthing or cars in this country but tell that to worker at Nissan Sunderland and Vauxhall and land rover, jaguar this creates employment in this country and not in france and is good for the economy
I can’t understand why the police and local governments buy foreign cars,
But well done to our friend highlighting the problems that come with Ev’s we don’t know what the tax cost will be be when the government start losing revenue from petrol
And road tax
January 2, 2024
Seems to me that individuals need to do proper research into their own needs (and suppress any desire to signal their green credentials to the rest of us) before embarking on a switch to EV.
Would I buy one? Never.
Why? Because of range anxiety, cost and depreciation of vehicle, time taken to refuel if out and about and expectations about future developments in hydrogen powered ICEs (Lord Bamford and others are on the case) & hydrogen fuel cells. I don’t do local school runs or deliver milk in dense urban areas like London. I love the feel and sound of ICE (especially petrol) driven vehicles and the joys of open top motoring on the open road in a small vehicle or classic car rather than the huge, heavy monsters you see on the roads these days.
January 2, 2024
A small electric car would be fine for 95% of my journeys – which are in to the nearest town(s) and back. If I had solar panels and could charge it using them, I guess it would be a cheap and green(ish) motoring solution. I’d still want a petrol engined car for long journeys. If I could buy a small electric car for sensible money – say Ā£20k – I’d be quite happy with one.
January 2, 2024
You can buy some good ones for around Ā£10,000 – BMW i3 – not bad at all particularly with a range extender – worth considering – but I will never be without my main ICE baby.
zorro
January 2, 2024
Good article highlighting some of the shortcomings of owning an EV. There are many others. Mining for lithium, the manufacturing process causing more emissions than ICE manufacturing, the additional weight of the vehicle producing more brake and tyre particulates. Re-sale value of EVās is woeful and replacing the lithium battery cell is prohibitively expensive. That said, for those who can afford it a small EV as a second car to be used as a āshopping trolleyā with home charging may be viable? But for working families without a garage or off road parking and those with small businesses an EV is not the answer. We should be improving ICE fuels for better economy and lower emissions. Government obsesses over Net Zero but thereās no calculation offered of the emissions from over three quarters of a million migrants entering our country this past year or indeed the building of homes and associated housing? Why?
January 2, 2024
Iām not bothered by the EV green credentials, nor its range or charging time. Iām not bothered that EVs have taken the soul, the spirit, the fun out of driving, its peoples choice if they want to buy them (by 2030 that choice will be removed by law)
ā¦.what Iām bothered about is āfreedom of choiceā a phrase, a topic, an idea which both labour & tory ignore. Imposing EVs by regulation of manufacture & purchase is beyond Marxism, itās the tyranny of Stalin
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/60f9a3918fa8f5042aecd384/transitioning-to-zero-emission-cars-vans-2035-delivery-plan.pdf
Mark my words, āfreedom of choiceā will not appear in this years Tory manifesto
This Tory government is still on track for all its net-zero policies, it may have delayed the introduction of a couple but NOT a single policy has been repealed
January 2, 2024
Dear Mr. Redwood,
The biggest problem for electric cars, for the manufacturers of them and, unfortunately, for buyers is this fake-Conservative government.
From 1st January 2024, the Conservative government’s Zero-Emission Vehicle mandate has come into being whereby manufacturers are required to produce a certain percentage of new zero-emission vehicles every year over the next 12 years or they can be fined for non-compliance including Ā£15,000 per car. The target for 2024 is for 22 per cent of new cars sold in the UK to be zero-emission rising to 80 per cent of new cars by 2030 before rising to 100 per cent of total sales in 2035.
If you are considering waiting until 2030 or even 2035 before rushing out to buy one of the last remaining petrol/diesel/hybrid vehicles then you will need to be alert. Before then, manufacturers may have switched their entire production to EV’s to avoid fines.
It would not surprise me to see the government rig petrol supplies in order to ‘nudge’ people to buy EV’s. It is quite obviously determined that we do so.
I look forward to what the government has got planned in order to make us eat less meat. It denies having such plans but the CCC (Climate Change Committee) says that a reduction in meat-eating will be necessary on the ‘electrified-road’ to Net Zero. Perhaps, the government will issue us with WW2-style ration books that we can take to the butchers to collect our allotted portion.
January 2, 2024
@Alan Paul Joyce – yet this imposition isn’t placed on any of the other more than 180 Nations the UK has to compete with. These so-called zero-emission vehicle that will be hitting our streets to avoid the fines will come from some of the highest carbon emitting countries on the planet – the UK will not be manufacturing the alternatives but at best assembling them from components supplied by the Worlds Polluters.
This Conservative Government is upping its punishment of the UK Citizen while sending what little money we have abroad. Just think we are being taxed and have to pay interest on the debts created by this Conservative Government – so they can have more removed from the Country.
Then they will be wanting you to endorse and re-elect them in the coming GE
January 2, 2024
Sorry, not quite true: France has the same objective of 100% electric vehicles by 2035. And since 01/01/2024 it has put in place āMon leasing electriqueā, an offer of a leased electric vehicle for ā¬100/month (gouvernement.fr, 26/12/2023, āCe qui change au 1er janvier 2024ā; ecologie.gouv.fr āMon leasing electriqueā).
Interestingly all vehicles parts of this scheme are Continental-European built.
January 2, 2024
APJ :
Correct. The purpose of Net Zero is to drive us into a communist state with the stick replacing the capitalist carrot and where food, energy, heating and transport is deliberately in such short supply that control is maintained by rationing and decided by unelected Zil Lane elites shopping in their private stores and flying off in their private hydrocarbon fuelled jets for their COP meetings in expensive holiday resorts.
There is no CAGW, itās a scam. 1800 scientists and professionals have signed the Clintel World Climate Declaration which says there is no climate emergency.
January 2, 2024
There was once another socialist country in Europe that manufactured a āpeoplesā car
January 2, 2024
Simple question, why is the Taxpayer forced to fund EV Charging points? Where as all fuel filling stations are self-financing.
January 2, 2024
Ian B
It is about demand. If there is a large demand then there will be private investment as there is a good chance of a return.
For the government to make this even half work it has to invest our cash into this White Elephant.
January 2, 2024
Another thing most politicians forget about. Not all car drivers live in cities and use their vehicle solely for passenger transport,
My four wheel drive Subaru does so much more . From pulling a trailer between fields to change sheep to carrying sacks of feed from the suppliers. Including also going to town and school etc! My hobby is hill walking and mountain climbing.
A delicate vehicle like an ev is no use to me!
The inky fingered civil servant have not a clue!
January 2, 2024
….and by all reports, they appear to go on fire a lot ! and when they do they take a lot of other assets with them, e.g the Luton Airport carpark fire, the cargo ship I posted about yesterday etc
Reply Causes of these fires are contested
January 2, 2024
Reply-Reply
The original cause my be contested John, but if an EV does start to self combust, or catches fire due to other causes, then it is almost impossible to control, as the seat of the fire is simply not accessible and you get runaway accelerated burning until eventual burn out, and that is not contested by anyone to the best of my knowledge.
I forecast that perhaps eventually EV’s will be banned or numbers restricted on the Channel Tunnel and ferries, as they did with Auto gas.
Will house insurance be affected eventually, and certain terms and conditions, or extra premuims be added ?
Rest assured the insurance companies hold the key here 1
January 2, 2024
Re fires, data from the U.S.A. (where the much larger car parc allows for a bigger sample size) for (I beleive) 2021 shown by insurance referral website AutoinsuranceEZ on its page gas-vs-electric-car-fires using data from the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS) found car fires by fuel type per 100,000 sales were: ā
Hybrid (electric plus ICE) 3,474.5
Petrol or diesel 1,529.9
Electric 25.1
It is the case that EV battery fires are less easy to extinguish that those arising in ICE vehicles, burning hotter and releasing fatally toxic gases.
January 2, 2024
Reply :
The causes of the fires may be contested (although not for much longer I believe) but the fierce heat of ev battery fires which are un-extinguishable and cause building collapse whilst emitting toxic chemicals such hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen chloride and hydrogen cyanide, is not contestable.
January 2, 2024
The driver could have used the EV chargers at WBC’s white elephant Coppid Beech P&R. These are never full, in fact I’ve not seen a single user since the facility opened. Likewise not a single car in the 200 space car park so plenty of options for queuing as well.
Reply The driver does not live in Wokingham
January 2, 2024
I would not have an electric car because I believe owning one does not add to the benefits of a green economy . The future lies elsewhere and at the moment the science is not there ; at one stage I thought hydrogen sourced vehicles would be the answer . Travel is no longer a pleasure on our congested roads .
January 2, 2024
You only need to purchase an EV if you believe the climate forecast of the UN IPCC and our current road congestion is a direct policy, imposed by this government, of road management restricting, the what, the when, the where and how drivers drive
January 2, 2024
I think that EVs are not as flexible in their use as petrol/diesel cars. If you have an EV range of 200 miles ((say) then pottering around the town you live in to do your shopping will not be a worrying experience. Even driving, say 60 miles, to visit a relation who can ‘plug you in’ while you are there is fine. It is when you have to make long trips with no friendly charger at the end that the stress comes into play (as Sir John’s contributor described).
January 2, 2024
He bought a combi boiler ? They will be banned in 2035 – the original plan was to ban them in 2025. He should have gone for the heat pump option for maximum expense and minimum effectiveness, just like the EV.
January 2, 2024
Where is your logic? I replaced my 10 year old Worcester, for a new 10 year guarantee one only 1 year ago.
Ok – so just over Ā£2000 as it fits current space and pipework, but nothing else to change. If I get 10 years use thats Ā£200 a year – suits me!
Heat pump and 13 rads to be changed, lost of extra insulation on solid walls etc – and no chance of ever getting above about 19C. No financial sense whatsoever.
January 2, 2024
Whatās wrong with you Mickey, donāt you believe the UN IPCC, donāt you want to save the planet ā¦.buying a heat-pump from China will save the planet, get with the programme
January 3, 2024
Saving the planet would appear to mean getting China, India, Brazil etc to cut use of resources by half, and stop producing babies (good luck with that). And countries like USA to realise the excessive consumption has to be cut too!
January 2, 2024
Oh – and sadly I doubt either of us will be around in 10 years.
January 2, 2024
Depending on usage there will be pluses and minuses to buying and running an electric car. In time the range problems will be sorted and prices come down. But the Government should never try to force the market as it is currently doing. Whether it is EVs, Heat pumps or anything else people will buy when the prices are affordable and the item does the job they want. Only a Government of fools, joined by the majority of MPs, could try to force the market when the electricity supply cannot cope. They are putting the cart before the horse. Back off trying to force the market, ( aren’t we supposed to be a free country? ) and let it happen over five or ten years. By then the CO2 myth will have been exploded, Global Warming shown to be a scam, and we might have a Government which believes in the UK and seeks to grow the economy, not strangle it with taxes and regulations!
January 2, 2024
Keith from Leeds : “Only a Government of fools, joined by the majority of MPs, could try to force the market when the electricity supply cannot cope.”
They are not fools but a CCC, Government, Parliament and many quangos, such as Offgem, stuffed with fifth column communists with the aim of destroying the West by denying us access to cheap, abundant, reliable energy using a totally false claim that anthropogenic CO2 emissions will lead to runaway global warming and the destruction of our planet. The fools are those who believe this nonsense.
January 2, 2024
The recent change in legislation forced on the EU by Germany and Italy, has thrown us a lifeline for IC-engined cars.
They will be allowed to remain in production, as long as they can run on a new mix of plant-based artificial petrol.
Several small British companies are working on this kind of fuel, and at least one is already in limited production.
Currently their fuel is too expensive for mass produced cars, but it does offer a way of running classic cars indefinitely and for future breeds of high-powered cars. Eventually the cost will come down, especially when the big oil companies complete their own development. We do not seem to have adopted the EU scheme here, yet, but elements of our motor industry would certainly benefit from it.
January 2, 2024
PS : The fuels under development require no alteration to existing engines.
January 3, 2024
One need not ābelieveā if one can run a radiation transfer scheme (like the one by W&H) within a one-dimensional radiative convective model, something that can be done by anyone with a bit of physics and a present-day laptop running Fortran.
When such a thing is done, replicating what Nobel Prize (Physics) Prof.Manabe and collaborators were doing in the 60s-70s, instead of the static calculations of W&H, the heating impact of greenhouse gases is easily obtained as instead of only looking at the change of fluxes at the top of the atmosphere, it shows the changes over the whole vertical of the temperature, humidity and radiative fluxes profiles.
Thatās the type of exercises that BSc students in Meteorology/Atmospheric Sciences are likely to be asked to perform.
And if one still wonders why W&Hās work has not been taken on-board by IPCC, it is simple: it is not even reaching what a BSc student can do. Simples.
January 2, 2024
Your constituent’s experience is the inconvenient truth for the Green Lobby, the motor industry, and the government.
As a long-term Jaguar owner (39 years) I tried a Jaguar iPace for a 24-hour test drive not long after the car was launched and I had attended a lecture at the Jaguar factory where Mike Cross, the lead engineer on the car, addressed the audience. The car was well made and light years ahead of any Tesla in fit and finish ( that’s still the case today ).
When I collected the iPace from my local dealer, the salesman asked me where I was going in it. I said, Exeter, a 92-mile run which immediately drew a sharp intake of breath from the garage chap. I was told to shorten the journey, even though the official range of the car was 298 miles. I heeded the advice and reduced the journey to 86 miles.
In fact, the range on the car’s computer predicted 190 miles, even though it had been fully charged. When I completed my journey West, I was alarmed to see that I had actually used 62% of the range. I only made it back by crawling along several stretches of road at 50mph, carefully monitoring the sat nav distance to destination and the range indicator. Even then, I only just made it home, and had to charge the car overnight before I could take it the 5 miles back to the garage!
The Jaguar was Ā£75,000 with no discount. I actually bought a new Audi A7 3 litre turbo diesel which was discounted to half the price of the Jaguar, despite having a RRP of Ā£62,000.
I won’t be buying an EV. I am keeping the Audi which has been superb, and have acquired an additional classic car, a ULEZ-free 1955 Rolls Royce which cost less than the difference between the Audi and the Jaguar, and will not depreciate, is cheap to insure and requires no MOT or Road Tax. I would recommend anyone to consider running a quality classic car, as well as a modern one, because, apart from the higher fuel consumption, they are lovely to drive and are so inexpensive to run.
January 2, 2024
…and still the last general election only returned one (1) Green Party MP
January 2, 2024
“a ULEZ-free 1955 Rolls Royce which cost less than the difference between the Audi and the Jaguar”
So is that less than the *list price* difference of Ā£13k (Ā£75k – Ā£62k)?
Or less than the difference between the Jaguar (Ā£75k) and the *actual price* you paid for the Audi (presumably circa Ā£37.5k) which would mean the RR cost Ā£37.5k or thereabouts?
There’s quite a difference between Ā£13k and Ā£37.5k.
January 2, 2024
P.S. Where did you actually buy it? It doesn’t sound like the kind of thing to get from a private sale in Autocar…
And doesn’t it cost a lot to maintain? Some of those old cars had parts made of expensive metals – not to mention the difficulty of getting the parts when you need them? Who makes the parts for a 1955 RR?!
I’m genuinely interested by the way – I’m not suggesting that what you say is wrong in any way.
January 3, 2024
How many 1955 Rolls are being used?
January 2, 2024
Private buyers concerned about climate change should seriously think twice before buying an EV :
The emissions from building your EV will be much higher than for a petrol or diesel car, even more so if the alternative is running on your existing car. Until you have covered 65-80,000 miles, you will not even have overcome the initial emissions in producing your EV. To buy it will cost at least 25% more and it will depreciation far more quickly than on an IC-engined car.
It won’t even be particularly green, as The EV will be run at least 50% of the time on electricity produced from gas. The greenest option would be to keep your existing car or buy a secondhand Cat 6 diesel or petrol car and run it for many years. If your mileage is under 5,000 a year, buy an older, sustainable classic car. The extra fuel cost will be less than the saving on MOTs and road tax.
January 2, 2024
The newspapers and blog sites support and enlarge on the high cost and disappointment many are experiencing with electric vehicles. Important to mention is that these vehicles are considerably heavier (weight of battery platform) experience far greater tire wear, and are more damaging to the road bed. In sum, the public is being forced into problematic technology while the leading automobile manufacturers are coming up with better solutions for perfecting the internal combustion engine.
January 2, 2024
This shows how important it is to do a lot of research before you buy an EV. All the information is available online albeit not from the vendors. If you set up your own charging points at work and at home and accept less range as a fact of life, then you can work around the issues. If you set up solar at work and at home, you can run free of charge for much of the year – not in winter obviously. The savings are substantial and counter the loss of capital value. If you keep the vehicle for ten years all is OK and you are quids in. We bought an old model Nissan Leaf just as it was being replaced by the new model and got a demonstrator for Ā£13,000 instead of Ā£31,000, the list price. The value today is about the same as we paid six years ago. We rarely charge away from home or work, and plan longer journeys carefully to avoid charging. We also now have a longer range EV – the Hyundai Ioniq 5 – which is good for 300 miles but not great in winter maybe 250 miles. We will sit tight now until 2028 now when the 750 mile range EVs with improved battery technology are supposed to be coming out. When away from home, find a local with an EV and ask them where they charge. Tesla obviously has a network and all sown up for charging but I prefer a bigger car like the Ioniq 5.
January 2, 2024
Youāre trying to improve the solutions to problems that donāt exist
January 2, 2024
Perhaps everyone else should just sit tight and see if these 2028 EVs materialise as expected. Or perhaps they’ll name it the Nissan Unicorn and it turns out to be as much a mythical beast as its parent, climate change.
January 2, 2024
It is possible to reduce energy consumption without creating a hiatus, so much grief and exorbitant cost to the taxpayer.
With motor vehicles so much is still an out and out costly fudge being pursued by an out of touch Conservative Government. For a large part it is the Taxpayer that has had the cost and debt payment foisted on them. No one knows how the forward will pan out, is it 100% pure EVās or is the less costly situation of the existing stock moving to synthetic or hydrogen fuels. One is ripping up everything we have now to favor and to fund foreign industry with our money that is still emitting vast amounts of Carbon and with greater carbon footprint, because they are not held back with our stupid laws. The other is to grow on existing foundations, not consume vast amounts of short supply materials, not ditch UK capabilities and UK founded technology but to intelligently evolve. What is know is that this Conservative Government is cutting off all the options for the UK to respond and survive through with Laws that none of our competitor Countries have to concern themselves with.
Because of the UKās motorsport heritage, it is a leader in self-charging hybrids, it is a leader in synthetic fuels. For the last 20 odd years race cars have been racing around and not emitting the carbon there is a concern about, in fact they have achieve zero emissions, and still with the standard ICUās.
There is a similar situation with heating in buildings, there is a hybrid solution that is less costly to implement and doesnāt require trash existing installations. Yet, what seems to be inferred when we hear the PM and his Ministerās speak is that Heat Pumps produce heat without consuming something the UK doesnāt have ā energy. The hint is in the word pump, an electric pump consuming vast amounts of electricity that the Conservative Government no longer allows the UK to produce. The UK is now a surrogate nation dependent of the political whim and wills of the foreign governments we then pay and subsidies to supply our energy. Even the supplies from windmills are foreign owned, some that foreign government owned and manufactured. It doesnāt have to be that way the UK has still has, just about, still got the resources, the capability and the wherewithal to provide us with competitively priced energy. This Conservative Government declines the UK being self-sufficient and reliant, you have to ask why? .
January 2, 2024
I have a nephew who works for vehicle auctioneers. Recently they had an electric car for auction, but it was going to cost the buyer Ā£18,000 to put back on the road! Yes, it was sold, but to a city buyer to use as a taxi.
January 2, 2024
My brother also tried EVs for a while. Even though he works from home a lot of the time, he still had range problems when he needed to travel. Having to remember to charge it fully was painful as well.
His view was that EVs are good business… for coffee outlets. The amount of time he spent in service stations waiting for the car to be ready, or queueing for a charger (or even trying to find one that works). Similar experience to the guy in the main article.
The approach with EVs is the equivalent of the govt banning horses when the motor car was invented. Most people would’ve had to walk since they couldn’t afford to run a car – same thing will happen with EVs, many people will be forced off the road. This seems obvious, so one has to wonder… is this the intention?
And by the way, why do the figures for emissions not mention the reduction due to increases in home working? More WFH = less CO2 (if that’s seen as a desirable thing of course, which I would dispute).
January 2, 2024
Off Topic:
Quoted from Spectator lunch time email:
“The government says that last yearās success rate of asylum applications was 67 per cent, down from 76 per cent in 2022. In France it is more like 30 per cent. The discrepancy goes some way to explaining why so many people choose to cross the English Channel from one safe country to another.”
Unbelievable!!! These obvious economic migrants come by boat and 2/3 to 3/4 of them are allowed to stay???
Does anyone believe that the Tories actually want to be re-elected? It sure doesn’t look like it from here.
January 2, 2024
Fortunately some of us grew up just as mass car ownership in the 1960s allowed buying 13+ year old used cars that had plenty of life left in them. We learned how to survive the 1970s oil crisis and 15% interest rates by prioritising basic food, hygiene and clothes etc.
A vehicle is just a depreciating asset and not an investment for most folk.
Today a vehicle is a computer on wheels, expensive, with mostly closed systems favoured by the manufacturer but vulnerable in new ways.
EVs raise the stakes higher in all dimensions and directions.
Gone are the old reliable certainties of resale value safety net, fuel stations and knowing you could run on nearly empty and choose where and when to fill up without any maps or digital information.
Simplicity is what folk want as they distrust change they cannot control or afford.
Ask what are the most normal desirable cars that are being targeted right now and why. Ford Fiestas says it all.
January 2, 2024
Some people just have to learn the hard way. I’ve no sympathy.
January 2, 2024
I see hedge funds are buying up raw uranium as the price spikes upwards. Look at the list of the top 10 countries that produce Uranium. There may be good arguments for the UK to build more nuclear power stations but energy security emphatically isnāt one of them.
January 2, 2024
Uranium isn’t something you have to buy constantly to power a nuclear power station. And commodity prices fluctuate.
Notable producers and their position in the list:
3. Canada
4. Australia
9. India
10. Ukraine
Plenty of opportunity to buy from them. And… yet another good reason to stop the war criminals in russia stealing Ukraine’s resources?
Come to that, Kazakhstan is No1 producer and they’re not exactly pro-Russian at the moment.
So – stop the scare-mongering please? I guess you don’t like nuclear power, but energy security definitely IS a reason to go nuclear. In fact nuclear should provide the entire base production, preferably using the modern technologies such as SMRs and look at the thorium variants they are starting to build in N. America which don’t use fissile materials and have no toxic waste.
Thorium is the future, no need for uranium, no risk from nuclear disaster, no disposal issues. Some theoretical designs can recycle the fuel.
Note that they started to build these before the technology fully moved from physics theory to engineering reality – that’s how confident they are.
January 3, 2024
Kazakh Russian relations are perfectly fine as President Tokayev said recently:”The economy always comes first;politics second” -and Kazakhstan and Russia are economically entwined.Atlanticist wishful thinking is not real life.
Ukraine’s uranium output is tiny-455 tonnes in 2021 vs Kazakhstan’s 21,819.Niger another “notable producer” has just moved into the Russian orbit.
Furthermore,much more important than who’s got the ore is who has got the processing capability.I believe there are just four conversion plants in the world-in Canada,China,France and Russia,the latter by far the largest,accounting for just under 40% of all uranium processed.
Wall Street Journal,11/12/23:”Why the US still buys so much enriched uranium from Russia.”
January 2, 2024
We have just been stranded for about 4 hours by our horrible hybrid Toyota.
āRescueā company still not arrived.
I came home alone on the busā¦not overly pleasant here now. I do not feel safe in what was once my own country.
The car was allegedly serviced a few weeks back but the message when husband tried to start it was ābrakes not functioningā ( or somesuch ).
January 4, 2024
Everhopeful
Sorry to hear as Toyota’s (two of which we have owned for a combined period of 35 years) have been very, very reliable, but they were petrol first 18 years, and diesel last 17 years .
Certainly agree Public transport feels unsafe, especially at Night, but the older you get the more vulnerable you feel.
At least if your car was serviced by a main dealer and is less than 10 years old, it should be covered by your annual service guarantee.
January 2, 2024
Long distance journeys over 125 miles in each direction are a problem for electric vehicles. Anxiety about recharging is real and unfortunately sometimes results in getting stuck as some recharging units are broken or have big queues when you get there.
However, if most of your journeys are local EVs are great, I would love it if my parents could afford an automatic EV, it would cut their costs but they are too expensive to buy and thats the only reason they wouldnāt get one, when you can get one for around Ā£10,000 then you might see some changes.
Recharging on the drive at night is lower cost if you use off peak electricity, ours only needs recharging two evenings per week off peak or one evening. But that gets offset with the high rental or purchase price.
We went for a hybrid for long distance and a full EV replacing two petrol cars. The hybrid is a reasonable alternative, we have leased them for three years to trial them.
January 2, 2024
This is well worth a read. The ECB saying climate change makes inflation difficult to predict.
https://x.com/ecb/status/1736692048214770014?s=46
January 2, 2024
It is useful to know about the experience of other before buying a product – purchase of electric cars like other things should be left to consumer choice. For me electric cars are too expensive and they are not convenient for long distance travel. Yet the government is mandating car manufacturers to sell at least 22% electric cars else face a hefty fine for each car short of that – which could steeply increase the price of petrol cars – effectively fining the consumer. Furthermore China controls the supply of rare metals needed in electric cars, and so is handing China a massive market opportunity and hurting our own manufacturers at the same time. Most MPs seem to support this – I suggest it is another deliberate ploy by parliament acting against us and our nation.
January 3, 2024
Making people mobile and happy isn’t the point.
January 3, 2024
You’ve really got to have more money than sense if you switch from an efficient petrol driven car to an inefficient, expensive EV.