I read there is a debate amongst Conservative MPs over who to have as leader, which goes to the heart of what the Conservative Party should believe and advocate.There is also a debate over the leadership and structure of the Reform party with some wanting a democratic  Party constitution to be introduced.
The One Nation group of Conservatives thinks they lost because they did not move sufficiently in the Labour/ Lib Dem direction. They say the party needs to win back voters from Labour and Lib Dems by moving  closer to their preoccupations and ideas.They want to downplay migration, move closer to the EU, talk more about public services and uphold the European human rights law.
The more conservative minded group thinks they lost because many former Conservative voters either stayed at home or voted Reform. They want a new Conservative Party to have a credible offer of much lower migration, lower tax rates and a more focused state, using Brexit freedoms to promote global U.K.
To help them examine this choice it might be useful to analyse voting patterns in Wokingham, one of many seats that passed from Conservatives to Lib Dems  or Labour.
In 2024 the Conservative vote plunged by 13,336
The Labour vote fell by 2819 , a nearly identical percentage fall to the Conservative vote
The Lib Dem vote rose by 2392
The new Reform vote was 5274
So if you add Lib Dem and Labour their combined vote was slightly down. There was no net switch from Conservative to Lib/Lab. The most likely explanation of changes in their votes is more Labour voters switched to Lib Dem to defeat the Conservatives.
Even if you thought all 2392 extra Lib Dem votes came from Conservatives you still need to explain where the other 11,000 missing Conservative votes went. The most likely explanation for the 13,336 fewer Conservative votes is many of them voted for Reform with the larger number staying at home. This would marry with the national outcome.
The voting pattern means there are many voters who want a more identifiably conservative approach to borders, taxes, economic growth than the last government managed and than Labour is offering. They split between voting Conservative, voting Reform and abstaining. The new Conservative leader will be in a struggle with Reform over who can best represent this group. Both Conservatives and Reform also will be looking for a platform with wider appeal that is compatible with the core economic policy and border controls they need to unite this large group of conservative voters. Reform have added the Lib Dem policy of proportional representation to their offer which complicates their priorities.
July 21, 2024
The tories lost because they lied and made fools of the great British public.
Even greater fools because said public allowed itself to be pushed into the arms of Labour.
What a mistake to make!
So now we sit and await our fate.
July 21, 2024
‘public allowed itself’?
Just what alternative was there over the years, and this GE?
The Labour national vote hardly changed.
It was the previous voting for Conservative that got a hiding.
July 21, 2024
How would you put it then?
The public made the wise choice of electing the Labour Party?
No. It was so full of revenge ( stoked up by MSM) that it lumbered us with Labour.
July 21, 2024
14 years of mostly doing opposite to promised. This lot have a chance to correct things, but may be as bad or worse – a chance deserved.
July 21, 2024
Oh give over!
Labour? Correct things?
Theyâve already stoked inflation with huge wage rises.
July 21, 2024
A very high percentage of the workforce have been squeezed into hardship over recent years, while the fat cats live in luzury complaining about their tax.
It is about time the hard-working poorly paid got big increases, and I dont include train drivers!
Massive ÂŁbillions going to all sorts of unworthy causes, while the bedrock of workers and service persons get poorer.
July 21, 2024
My area saw Reform votes denied a Tory return and Lib Demâs instead. Good start.
Johnson should have culled pro EU one nation Treacherous May types. Sunak betrayed Johnson, Truss and Braverman. He betrayed N.Ireland and nation and his party. If pro EU one nation types do not realise they are no different to Labour their party will cease to exist. Good.
Tory party betrayed the nation and repeatedly lied over four elections to get elected. Good riddance. Badenoch, Tugenholt etc. do not Stand a chance. Braverman will not get elected because she is a conservative and she wanted to get rid of ECHR last time she went for leadership contest. 3/4 of Tory MPs are pro EU one nation types. Pro EU one nation types content Labour in office to continue where they left off.
July 21, 2024
Listen to the two absurd (and pathetically soft) interviews on Laura Kunsberg with the Chancellor and Jeremy Hunt. Daft soft questions and daft answers from both of them. Indeed all of the guests rather pathetic too.
Just to help these three dopes out a bit:-.
1. It was not Truss who wrecked the economy it was Sunak at Chancellor with his lockdown vast waste, QE and net harm vaccines, test and trace, HS2… All supported by Labour hence public debt nearly doubling and all having been wasted.
2. It is mainly net zero that gives us high unreliable energy costs not Putin. His energy is still on the international market but via India etc.
3. Rachael Reeves did the Vaughan Gething line “the first Black”, “the first Women” – Rather pathetic dear.
4. Reeves also went on about US growth being higher. Reasons for this are far lower taxes, far lower energy costs (about 1/3), lower property costs, more land, more resources. Labour’s agenda is all anti-growth, rip off energy (other than relaxing planning if they do).
5. At least if we get Trump in we will have someone sound in the Net Zero con trick, on the vast vaccine harms and who wants cheap reliable energy.
6. Hunt asked about his pre-pandemic planning errors. The real errors were the net harm vast cost lock-downs and the net harm Covid vaccines.
7. Reeves also waffled about Carbon Capture (the last thing we need) and Green Jobs (in China I assume Rachael?)
8. Reeves also did the it is far worse than we though act. Total lies dear! You had full access to all the numbers.
The BBC is really pathetic all part of the Uni-party economic and net zero propaganda scams.
July 21, 2024
LL,
Unfortunately I cannot watch BBC on medical grounds. I read today in the papers two immigrants jailed for violent rape from the Harehills area of Leeds. Deport them back to where they come from.
Watch the Republican senators on YouTube tear apart Bidenâs administration on illegal immigrants and cite examples of the crimes they commit, and how Bidenâs administration broke the law to allow them in and remain! They also scrapped 92 executive orders from Trump which coincidently saw the rise in illegal i migrants! They claimed prisons were full so let them out, instead of deporting them.
It therefore crossed my mind why not in the first instance deport All foreign criminals from our jails to free up some places- each country told no trade or aide unless you accept your criminals back. Then build nightingale type buildings on a selected remote Scottish islands for these type of offenders, a sort of open prison where they cannot harm anyone else. Alternatively, offer them to Ukraine as conscripts! Perhaps then they might seek go back to where they came from!
July 21, 2024
JR, how come Tory party in govt for 14 years negotiated to allow low skilled people from many countries in as part of trade deals but no returns of people to their countries for the same reason or no aide?
Is it because there is no difference between Tory and Labour and both party leaderships want to rid us of our nation state, culture and values and it is reinforced by Equality terrorism to force us to accept alien cultures and practices ahead of our own? Labour has just announced black people will be considered over indigenous white people. That is division not cohesion is it not? Is this not an extension of Tory/Labour forced quota selection procedures?
July 21, 2024
Johnson is on the pro-EU, one nation, one world Government wing.
July 21, 2024
@Hope +1 – everyone one outside sees it, those who think they should lead that have shown their hand can’t see they are the problem. They are the ones so remote and out of touch theycan’t think. Continuity is not the answer all that is needed is an understanding of what it means to be a conservative, someone that is not a career politician but someone that has a real life.
July 21, 2024
It went down! It was 40% for Corbyn and he lost. 36% this time & Starmerâs personal vote hugely down too.
So our new Chancellor vows ‘big bang on growth’ to boost investment and savings, New Pensions Bill confirmed in King’s Speech to boost pension pots by over ÂŁ11,000, with further consolidation and broader investment …
I assume this translates as Reeves plans another Gordon Brown style pension raid/theft. Or perhaps they will just force pension pot holders to âinvestâ in duff government investments like Net Zero, renewables, HS2, net harm vaccines, nationalised rail companies, not so Great British Energy, Millennium Domes, Giga Factories, Carbon (Dioxide) Captures (why would we want to do that it is tree food & a net good)âŠ
Reply 33.7% this time, big fall in Labour vote from Corbyn levels. Who knows how they could make pension funds invest in U.K. shares.
July 21, 2024
Why would anyone want their pension invested in UK shares? But first what is a UK share, one in a UK start-up that recently came to the AIM? One listed on the FTSE250 that might have most of its revenues from the UK? Will that prevent using any FTSE100 share that gets most of its revenues from abroad? Or could that mean anything available on the LSE?
Or is that more like âinvesting in the UK economyâ meaning for example investing in UK infrastructure or projects/companies deemed (by whom?) supportive of the UK economy?
Rather fuzzy at the moment.
July 21, 2024
The FTSE share index since 2000 has beaten leaving money in saving accounts.
So perhaps these pension investment managers know better than you hefner.
They invest in a wide range of different UK companies to spread out the risk.
July 21, 2024
Compulsory contributions to GB Energy come to mind. Perhaps add Rail Bonds and Water Bonds for nationalised industries. After all, Brown made gilts compulsory for most pensions nearing or in payment.
July 21, 2024
@Reply – if the UK had an economy, people would invest in it. Market manipulation of any type is to force further decline
July 21, 2024
We voted to rid ourselves of the PCP because if its record in office. The PCP was, deceptive and incompetent, and made us and our Nation poorer and weaker.
We know that Labour is probably no better, but we now await a conservative movement reset, that may include Reform. We are looking and hoping for a party that looks a our economy and place in the world with realism and common sense. Policies need to be based on facts and condition, not whims of imagination and false projection, and quasi-religious dogma.
We are running out of economic/financial runway, Labour can’t even see it. If we don’t have a robust economy then we can’t afford or do any of the things we all need and wish, and will soon be a ‘first world failed state’.
July 21, 2024
Well frankly I think we are all singing from the same hymn sheet of despair.
So very little point in splitting hairs really.
July 21, 2024
As stated elsewhere on this topic, fourteen years of broken promises, failures, incompetence and croneyism destroyed the Conservative vote. Labour gained a massive majority as a consequence.
However, Conservative numbers did not go as low as some predicted. Still three figures rather than 60ish MPs.
Now the regrouping begins and it may be a slow process.
From what I can see, One Nation types are still in the ascendancy. Parris and Gauke still hold sway in the media – despite Lifelogicâs â X is surely correct in todayâs Telegraphâ posts.
In âThe Spectatorâ, a contributor says the Conservative Party has survived so long because it always bounces back from failure. He awaits a Sir Robert Peel type to emerge and put things right. I cannot see that happening at the moment.
Nor do I see a Labour collapse leading to another Conservative government. Slow decline while Labour, Lib Dem run things seems most likely. Political violence may increase and this country is less well prepared for that than countries on continent.
July 21, 2024
See also Sunday Times article which addresses Conservative party finances.
It seems they are nearly skint.
Volunteers are disappearing and big donors don’t back losers. Much safer to fund parties that will win closer to elections. Then memories are fresh when it comes to quid pro quo.
July 21, 2024
+++
July 21, 2024
Fast decline – into low level war, like France and Sweden.
July 21, 2024
Looks like Labour are coming for our pensions. If they can’t work out that the population of people approaching pension age and who are already represents a very large voting group, then they’ll not be in office very long.
July 21, 2024
Iâve seen that reported a lot.
Does it mean taking pensions already in payment or somehow taxing/helping themselves to pensions being saved up ( prior to retirement) ?
July 22, 2024
Both, probably.
July 21, 2024
The Conservative Movement (Tories and Reform) is like a dysfunctional family who managed, through their dysfunction, to allow Labour back into power – who will manage to spend more money and wreck things faster than the last Tory governments did – and for the next 5 to 10 years.
Farage is like the public school kid rebelling against his parents / getting back on his parents. This is a classic case of projecting one’s childhood wounds onto other people (in this case, the Conservative Party). This is just basic psychology. Even any first year university, psychology student, worth his salt, would agree.
July 21, 2024
Poor analogy more like.
July 21, 2024
Perhaps a first year university psychology student is not worth listening to?
I will leave that for our Education Expert to hold forth on.
July 21, 2024
This is not about education – but whether Farage is right for the job.
Like the way entrepreneurs (at least the best ones), informally, try and figure out the psychology of those they’re going to employ for a job – and it is 100% NOT about judging the man in overall but 100% how he will perform in the job.
So my comment is 100% about judging the man for the job. And Farage is a complete loser when it comes to this. He’s got charisma for sure. And great at slogans and making glib comments. But there is no substance to him (as a politician). He is not capable of deep thought / creative thinking / planning etc. in politics. He’s just a salesman hitting the right notes to achieve his own agenda.
July 23, 2024
Btw, most entrepreneurs, above all in high tech industry, the ones who create multi-million and multi-billion-pound or dollar companies, love psychology.
Being interested in psychology is key to creating successful brands that people love!
Problem is when the country is being run by politicians who know nothing about the High Tech industry – nor do they care about it. But have an over-simplistic understanding of the economy leading to boom and bust economies (because they over-focus on financial services and the consumer market at cost of High Tech – Silicon-Valley-type stuff as well as producing high quality cars like the German ones which we no longer do here in the UK at least not ones that are British brands).
July 21, 2024
A psychology student might want to consider whether the person writing these accusations was in fact projecting something in his own troubled psyche.
July 23, 2024
The Tories lost Wokingham to the LibDems and Redwood thinks the answer is for the Tories to lurch even further right
Reply Never urged moving right. Said needed to keep promises on migration, taxation and inflation. The Conservative candidate in Wokingham was certainly not right wing who sent out photos with Mrs May and Mr Cameron to position herself.
July 21, 2024
Looking in from the outside, the Conservative party has the potential to split between the One Nation group and the rest. Jacob Rees-Mogg argued (in a Spectator event) that past elections were won by Conservative right wing policies not from the centre. It seems to me that a key reason for the recent collapse of the Conservative vote was it’s failure to implement such policies. Reform attracted many defectors, such as myself, for this reason. How the right realigns (and unites?) over the course of the new parliament will be interesting to observe and significant for the next parliament. That will also be influenced by Reform’s progress in the many Labour held seats where it is now the main challenger and also it’s success in building a local organisation (by attracting Conservative activists?).
July 21, 2024
Quite. The key catalyst will be the new leader. As you say, interesting to watch.
July 21, 2024
Also, Libertarianism fails to address what happens when a country collapses into widespread social and cultural dysfuctionality – like what has happened in the UK and elsewhere. And that is partly because of liberalism and WOKE, yes, but also when people become over-individualistic which is contrary to cultural Tory values of love of family, country, community etc). So Libertarianism helps to create the monster that devours itself (including its economy). So Conservatives have to try and do something to stem that by, for example, working closer with churches, media and those in education and arts, to inspire Conservative cultural values in the country.
July 21, 2024
Indeed.
You say âThe One Nation group of Conservatives thinks they lost because they did not move sufficiently in the Labour/ Lib Dem direction.â how can these dopes possibly think this? There was almost zero difference between Suankâs Con-Socialists and Labourâs offer (not that Labour will keep to their manifesto it will be even worse). Just a tiny touch on the brakes on net zero to go over the cliff slightly later and VAT on school fees (& Gove even wanted that). The Tories even abolished Non Dom status in an act of economic vandalism.
The Tories lost because they promised lower immigration levels, lower taxes, better public services and a stronger economy in four manifestos. They ratted on all these promises and delivered the complete reverse of very high and increasing low skilled immigration levels, vastly higher taxes, very poor and declining public services and a far weaker economy with vastly increased government debt.
Why would anyone sensible ever trust them again?
July 21, 2024
LL
Never interrupt your opponent whilst they are making a mistake.
Their’s a good chap đ
July 21, 2024
There’s
Regards
A pedant
July 21, 2024
Yes. One Nation Group, elitist Remainers contemptuous of the âpopularâ vote.
They are so blinded by their superiority that they think being out flanked on their right means moving more into the middle. They are not Tories so I did not vote being asked to support a Blairite agenda is an insult.
We are now already seeing their panic and the direction of their tactics by smearing the ârightâ as âextreme rightâ without even knowing who will stand and what they will say.
One thing is certain a lot of traditional Tories did not vote, knowing they would lose and are now waiting for a reset.
The pompous self important Tugenhat, a key player in why they lost will, if elected, ensure those Tories waiting to see direction of travel move over finally to Reform.
July 21, 2024
Not sure exactly how anyone can âdownplay migrationâ when it is happening so vastly and with such life changing consequences.
I see that some are looking into which countries have not been fool enough to embrace the Great Reset with a view to possible flight.
Nothing here now for anyone except newcomers.
July 21, 2024
Morning Sir John,
Whilst The Parliamentary Conservative Party may not know what a Conservative is, the ordinary members and the electorate do.. I personally don’t think that we’ve had a real Conservative government ever since David Cameron was leader. If so called Conservatives are ashamed to promote Conservative Policies and concepts, they should have the courage of their convictions and join the LibDems or Labour.
July 21, 2024
IDS and Liz Truss were the only leaders that could be said to be Right Wing.
And they stabbed them in the back. They don’t want to be Right Wing, they want to be Centre / Centre Left.
Leave them to it, I say !
July 21, 2024
“they” simply want to be in power and don’t care at all what “wing” they have to be on.
The Conservatives are not alone in this but they had the opportunity to do things differently and benefit the plebs for once but went for the fubar option instead.
July 21, 2024
Mark B They are not centrists but far left wing.
July 21, 2024
Dixie,
I agree, getting their hands on power is what matters to them… That begs the question: Why then, do they want to give that power away to organisations such as The EU, WHO or the UN? It baffles me.
July 22, 2024
Who knows, is it simply a means of giving away the responsibility while retaining the authority? Do they see people at the same level in other countries/organisations being more supportive of them than those lower down the greasy pole or the ungrateful masses?
Regardless we have no real means to keep these people in check. Voting them out every 5 years is no punishment, it clearly doesn’t change their behaviours.
Not voting/spoiling the ballot doesn’t have any effect – they only need to win a majority of those who voted, no matter how many. Clearly changes are needed but the turkeys in power will not change for our benefit.
July 21, 2024
and those who want a return to Conservatives need to vote Reform.
July 21, 2024
correct
July 21, 2024
@Reply – if the UK had an economy, people would invest in it. Market manipulation of any type is to force further decline
July 21, 2024
@Cliff +1
July 21, 2024
Personal liberty
Democracy
Rule of LawâŠ
Some core con beliefs I think?
Every one a fail.
Not as bad as Labour though!
July 21, 2024
Low simple taxes, small government, economic competence, law and order, decent defence systems, no woke lunacy, no unneeded red tape, free & fair competition (especially between state and private in education, energy, healthcareâŠ). Yet more fails!
July 21, 2024
Henry Ford
“Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently”.
I looked up some quotations about failure.
They all said similar âŠfailure is an opportunity to get it right.
However the tories, terminator style, seem intent on setting their failures in concrete.
July 21, 2024
Good to see Czechia has released figures on deaths with vaccination status. Meanwhile our government are no releasing them using entirely bogus excused for not doing so. The real reason is that they know what these figures show and it is not pretty.
See the recent Dr John Campbell videos with the excellent Dr Clare Craig. Suspend mRNA, the Hope Accord in detail, Moderna v Pfizer.
Then perhaps consider just how decent Sunak is with his âunequivocally safeâ statement on the Covid vaccines. Plus haw decent the senior statistics authorities personnel are as they keep desperately trying to hide the raw data using pathetic and invalid excuses.
Why would they want to hide it if it showed what the Sunak stated one has to ask?
July 21, 2024
The excellent, nearly alway correct and delightful Dr Clare Craig was one of the many people the government and people like the dire Neil OâBrian MP (PPE yet again so little medical or maths/statistical abilities I assume) appallingly tried to trash for telling essentially the truth during Covid. He was Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Public Health and Prevention at the time I think. Alas still an MP.
July 21, 2024
In the Sunday Telegraph today:-
AN NHS hospital told a nurse who wanted to support Lucy Letby she should not give evidence in her case, it has been claimed. Several nurses and a doctor told this paper that they had been advised by their trusts not to speak about the case, with one nurse warned against acting as a character witness for Letby.
So is this not the NHS attempting to pervert the course of justice? Is also the statistics authorities failure to release honest raw data on the Covid vaccine related deaths not also doing this? Do we have any police investigation into the vast Covid Vaccine scandals yet? Contaminated blood scandal X 100 times in size and still growing surely one is justified. At least they could get at the raw statistics that are being hidden.
July 21, 2024
The dark heart of Starmerâs Labour has been revealed: total surrender to unelected elites
This Kingâs Speech saw a doubling down of the trend that began under the Tories – handing power to bureaucrats and quangos.
DANIEL HANNAN today in the Telegraph today.
Surely he is right, though this has been fairly clear for sometime. See for example the recent excellent recent David Starkey Videos. We have Blair Mk 2, Blair/Brown Mk 1 was a total disaster. Iraq and the damaging wars, the vast pension grab, the botched anti-English devolution, the selling of the gold, BoE âindependenceâ, climate alarmism, energy policy, US extradition treaty, burying us further into the EU, open door immigration, the destruction of many good schools continuation of, the supreme court and constitution reforms, the left wing march through the institutions, the dire NHS unreformedâŠ
July 22, 2024
You do know the Telegraph has its own comments section Lifelogic
July 21, 2024
If the residual conservative MPs exclude the Conservative members from the leadership vote they will further reduce the Conservative vote among the electorate. Conservative Central Office, by selecting candidate MPs of consocialist inclination and dumping them on local costituencies only succeed in alienating potential Conservative voters. The Conservative Party is not what it says on the tin.
The lack of democracy in the Consrvative Party has been around for decades and is immovable. Remember the Wets from your time in government, they have procreated to the point where they have little connection with those they expect to vote for them.
Any lack of democracy in Reform is a premature birth defect that can be corrected in early life. As it stands, Reform are seen as the only true Conservative thinking party. Apart from their five MPs, they managed to come second in over 90 seats. This is incredible after such a short notice start. Their potential in 2029 or earlier lies among the Conservatives who stayed at home and a fair few Labour voters who come to realise that their party in power is just as divided, partial, and incompetent as earlier manifestations. Think what spitting image coukd do with the millipede.
The Lib/Dems are just a bolt hole for passing fantasists who are everything to everyone. As far from reality and the requirements for real reform of the UK as you care to get.
Sound economics and border control are anathema to the CP in power. I think you will eventually acknowledge that Reform are in the right place in these critical areas. Time will solve all at this pivotal point for the UK. Your talent would assist, so get aboard in whichever way you see as effective.
July 21, 2024
The will be offered a choice of two that are exactly the same.
July 21, 2024
An if the members get it “wrong” and the wrong one wins they will kick them out as they did with Truss. The one clever thing Sunak did was to manage to blame his gross incompetence as Chancellor or the few days of Truss as PM even Labour did this (and the Kwasi budget that never even took effect).
Sunak as Chancellor constructed the appalling economic mess and inflation that Truss and then Sunak inherited
July 21, 2024
Interesting analysis.
For many of us who voted Reform instead of Tory, I guess we will probably never trust the Conservative Party again. I for one feel they duped me too often. Reform will possibly do the same to me, but not straight away.
For the stay-at-home tories though, a conservative Tory Party would give them something to vote for.
It’s a long time to the next election, but if the Tories move right (say, to where they were pre-Cameron) then I wish they and Reform could do an electoral pact, to beat the progressive left. Sadly it’s not likely, as those seeking power seldom want to share it.
July 21, 2024
Fool me four times fool on me.
July 21, 2024
Good morning Sir John
In a nutshell and after this weekend’s violent ethnic scenes in Leeds and London the move to Reform will become a tsunami.
I don’t believe people are seeking a definitive answer to the deeply troubling issues that confront us more a party and a leader who actually believes in something tangible and says publicly without fear of assault from the woke fascists that there is some form of kickback against the constitutional, cultural and demographic vandalism committed by those who came to power in 1997 and 2010.
I personally do not believe there is a solution to the revengeful actions committed against this nation since 1997. There is no recourse. The descent into woke barbarity and authoritarianism has only just started.
July 21, 2024
As I said a while ago just after the GE. We are entering a new dark phase in politics – Sectarianism.
July 21, 2024
Indeed an repeats all very likely give the police’s two tier policing and lets withdraw agenda. One approach for Lockdown breakers sittingon a bench, vaccine realists, football fans, Tommy Robinson and quite another in high Muslim areas, Gaza protesters, certain riots, climate alarmist protesters, shop lifters, burglars, child rapists, just stop oil road blockers…
July 21, 2024
I fail to see how the one nation conservatives can be any closer to Labour and the Libdems policies. Surely, that boat has sailed and sunk.
July 21, 2024
The One Nation team could campaign with the slogan ‘ Twinned with Labour and Libdems’.
July 21, 2024
+1
July 21, 2024
The tories lost because of 14 years of lies and incompetence. Immigration rising year on year despite manifesto pledges to reduce it to the tens of thousands.
Unable to carry out the mandate to leave the EU despite the democratic vote and unnecessarily locking down the population because of Chinese flue
If the one nation mob think they’re not left wing enough let them get on with it and complete the destruction. Can’t they see what’s happening in Europe and the USA.
July 21, 2024
+1
July 21, 2024
Indeed. First rule of politics, prefer to get sunk and blame others rather than admitting you were on the wrong course.
To paraphrase Monty Python ânot me Guv, society is to blameâ
July 21, 2024
@Ian Wrath +1
July 21, 2024
I voted as I did because the conservatives have not acted responsibly nor shown any loyalty to their voters or citizens of the UK. Their focus has been self-centred marked by a distinct cowardice, being in power was the only thing that mattered and they give way to everyone they cannot control, meaning everyone except the UK taxpayers.
Reform positions as the alternative but they are not a democratic party and I don’t support some of their main ticket positions. A move to supporting proportional representation would not be a deciding factor.
We’ll just have to see how they behave in parliament but I think they have to become far more active and visible in local government, to actually deliver benefits for voters, to be a worthwhile contender
In the meantime there are no parties that deserve my support or vote.
July 21, 2024
@dixie +1 well said
July 21, 2024
I feel the Conservative Party modernised its values but it came at the expense of its standards.
Prior to 2005, the Conservative Party’s standards would have maximised economic growth, maximised wages and living standards, optimised tax rates, prioritised opportunity for all (ie including for the poorest amongst us), provided effective yet efficient public services (including the NHS), overseen an affordable housing market etc.
Since 2005, the Party’s leadership acknowledged these things but let their timidity and virtue-signalling get in the way and thus did not deliver the standards which are expected of the Conservative Party. By consequence, voting Conservative in July was an impossible ask.
If the Conservative Party wants to win those Conservative voters back from Reform UK and get the wider electorate motivated again it is going to have to re-align with its standards.
July 21, 2024
@Paul Freedman +1 – you have identified a Conservative and highlighted why the so-called ‘one nation ‘ interlopers such as TomT are not
July 21, 2024
If the remnants of the Conservative party decide to listen to the so called ‘One Nation group of Conservatives’ and veer even further Left. The party will be out of power for many years, potentially decades. Trying to out Left the Left, won’t work and isn’t wanted.
It was the Left leaning soppy style of government that resulted in the rejection of the last Conservative government. The public were sick of the constant failure to do anything worthwhile, whilst promising a rosy future at some indeterminate point. Too much focus on pandering to ‘woke’ issues and filling the country with un-required immigrants. Whilst taxing us at every turn.
What the UK needs is a true centre-right political party, to get hold of this country and place the requirements of the heritage population first.
There at least a couple of candidates for leader of the Conservatives who fit the bill. With Kemi Badenoch clearly the best choice.
If you all decide to choose a ‘rejoiner, left leaning Europhile’ (hello Mr Tugendhat) Reform will fill the void. But it will take time and we will have to endure more than one parliamentary term under the Labour party. What an excruciating thought.
July 21, 2024
@Old Albion +1 Although I don’t agree that anyone that signed up for the collective responsibility of cabinet should be allowed any where near being the next leader. I think T Tugendhat’s ego and that of his supporters, need to be honest with themselves and join the Labour Party
July 21, 2024
Good morning.
One has to look at what Conservative MP’s and their ideological leanings are. Most I argue are of the Wet variety as these were put in safer seats CCHQ to ensure that the ‘Great Purge’ got rid of many Right Wing Conservatives like our kind host.
As Peter Hitchens pointed out, the role of the Conservative Party has been to be in office and to prevent a true Right Wing party emerging. So the Wets have got mostly what they want but, they now have to contend with another party purporting to be Right Wing. The trouble is, we all know the Conservative Party is Left of Centre and cannot be trusted.
It is far better that the Wets pursue the mythical Centre Ground, pushing both the LibDems and Labour further to the Left and allow a true Right Wing party to grow.
Give us choice for once.
July 21, 2024
A kind interpretation of Cameron’s overtures to the Lib Dems ending in coalition is that he thought that they might become the Left of Centre party of government while the Tories became the Centre of Government, with Labour excluded. Now the Onward! Party could easily join with the Lib Dems and become like Macron’s coalition. It would still leave Labour as a dangerous force, much as with the French socialist bloc. A lot then hinges on the right getting things right.
July 21, 2024
The problem the Conservatives have is that it is stuffed with too many One Nation types, who now appear to be in the majority., if a Centre Right leader is chosen, there will be continuous infighting and briefing against policies.
Choose a One Nation type and you lose your traditional support of Party voters.
The Conservatives look like they will be out of Government now for a long time if the One Nation supporters get their way.
Any Party needs a charismatic clear thinking speaking leader of some sort, who at least appears to understand and commands the wide respect of the Party members and the General Public in equal measure.
Starmer looked wishy washy, had little personality, was unclear on policies, and never gave a simple answer to a simple question, hence the reason the Labour vote did not improve much, even given the dire way in which the Conservatives handled or mishandled almost everything.
People like or dislike Farage because he speaks in a manner which is easy to understand, will give a short answer to a question, promotes policies which are clear and understandable, and appears to be very patriotic.
Whilst his Party is very new, it has stolen many small C traditional Conservative voters, who simply had nowhere else to go, the worry is the caliber of its Candidates.
The LibDems just blame everything on everyone else, even when in control of Local Authorities, they promise pie in the sky solutions, so really are just a protest Party who will never govern in their own Right, their leaders reflect such. They gained a few extra votes at the last election from those in the middle ground who felt they could not vote Labour or Reform.
July 21, 2024
@Berkshire Alan +1 everyone knew that Starmer and Labour would be truly bad. But, Sunak/Hunt etc were not Conservative so had to go. The Party could have put in the most junior inexperienced, but Conservative as leader and walked through the election with a massive majority. Unfortunately CCHQ and the One Nation Group will fight that happening, they believe in the continuity of maintaining the Socialist big spend high tax fraction
July 21, 2024
The turn-out in Wokingham at GE 2024 was 72%, much the same as at GE 2019 – 74%. It doesn’t look as if large numbers of people stayed at home this time, who voted in 2019. A factor that might be important is that Wokingham lost a lot of its previous electorate due to boundary changes which would have affected the personal vote of residents believing their constituency MP was doing a good job, regardless of politics. Also, I believe that in some of the areas gained by the constituency such as Twyford and Wokingham Without the trend in recent council elections has been to vote Lib Dem. That surely reflected the unpopularity of the Conservatives nationally, which made it hard to defend the seat, whoever was the Tory candidate.
Reply Conservatives did stay at home. Total electorate was 13,000 lower in this new seat.
July 21, 2024
The big worry for our Democracy surely must have been the huge number of stay at home non voters, who were so disenchanted with almost everything, they could not even be bothered to vote for anyone.
Perhaps a None of the Above box would at least have given them an opportunity to protest, and it be recorded as such.
In my view the main reason Wokingham went LibDem John, was the fact that you were no longer standing, the new prospect was parachuted in from outside, was a One Nation type, who it was clear knew absolutely nothing about the history of the Constituency at all.
In short the Conservatives lost its traditional support big time Nationwide, quite why Sunak went for an early election does not make any real sense, if the economy was improving, if the Bank rates were due to come down, if tax reductions could have been part of the next Budget, if the NHS waiting lists were dropping, At least he then could have said, my plan is working look at the proof, but then we still had the boats !!!!!!
July 21, 2024
I’d have a rule that “None of the above” was on the ballot paper, and if it won the constituency, all the candidates have to stand down and new candidates put forward for a new election.
Reply So how would you suddenly find candidates you liked? Why didnt they show up first time? Itâs a big commitment to stand for MP
July 21, 2024
Reply-Reply
Apply the same rules as a By- Election John, the Party puts up its candidate of Choice.
Should not be difficult, there are usually a number of candidates that choose to put themselves forward for selection.
If it was clear that None of the Above won, then perhaps the Party need to put forward an alternative candidate with a different view, with different skills, knowledge or residency from the original failed one.
And yes I fully agree it is a huge commitment to become an MP, a much greater commitment than many people realise or understand.
July 21, 2024
That’s a very good question. The process of becoming a PPC is opaque and controlled by narrow party cliques in almost every party. The main criteria seem to be biddability as lobby fodder rather than ability to contribute to governing the nation. For people of quality the pay is not particularly generous, so attracting good people requires a strong sense of public duty: all too often it now attracts fanatics instead. This part of the system needs urgent reform to correct the problems.
July 21, 2024
Wokingham not open to easy analysis because roles changed since 2019. You replaced by a young lady from a bank in London. Libdems showering constituency with leaflets and people. Reform started from scratch with a local candidate .
We can say it’s likely Libdems pulled in some Labour tactically and a few disillusioned Cons who weren’t yet convinced Reform were viable and clean. Reform pulled in balance disillusioned Cons. That’s about it
July 21, 2024
“The One Nation group of Conservatives thinks they lost because they did not move sufficiently in the Labour/ Lib Dem direction.”
———–
If that is truly their belief, then they are effectively saying that the electorate should be offered no real choice in the kind of government they can elect or the policies which will be implemented. We supposedly have a two-party system which is intended to produce a CHOICE between two different parties and two different agendas for governance. It’s why they are called the Government and the Opposition. The “One Nation Group” do not want to Oppose, so they are not intending to carry out their Constitutional duty.
If the policies are virtually identical (left wing-green) then the only deciding factor for the electorate is competence: they will implement the policies more competently than the red-green and yellow-green candidates. And they’re on a loser with that because the electorate has experienced 14 years of their incompetence.
The electorate wants and deserves a choice. If the Not-a-Conservative-Party doesn’t offer one, another Party will. Reform broke through the FPTP tipping point in 5 Constituencies this time, but they came second in around 100 Constituencies. The voters who delivered those results aren’t likely to be attracted by a “no choice, more of the same” Not-a-Conservative-Party led by a LibCON.
July 21, 2024
It is interesting to observe how peopleâs beliefs allow them to ignore the evidence. As was pointed out, the number of votes for each party clearly shows the opposite.
July 21, 2024
It would be nice if someone could put some facts to the One Nation types. Along the lines of âŠ
âCompared with 2019 (big Tory victory):
Labour got fewer votes.
Lib Dems got fewer votes.
Tory vote collapsed (by half).
Reform got 4 million votes from none in 2019 âŠ
and this, according to you, indicates you need to move to the centre. How exactly do you work that out?â
July 21, 2024
A concise and logical explanation as to what happened in Wokingham. It could also be a fair comment on happenings in other ‘Conservative’ constituencies. Recovering from such an event will require a strong Leader of the party and some militant Brexiteers in the Labour ranks.
July 21, 2024
I think voters now have an adequate choice of parties without any need for the Conservative party to exist at all – they just overlap from the centre-left of Labour to Reform with no guarantee of what they would do if elected. Best they consider winding up.
July 21, 2024
I’m rather concerned about the governance of Reform. It’s not a true political party, more of a limited company. It needs to change its structure to become democratic.
How did Nigel Farage become its leader? He was appointed by the management, not voted for by the membership.
Someone above has remarked about the quality of their candidates. Well a degree in PPE doesn’t strike me as a valid qualification for an MP, as opposed to real life experience.
July 21, 2024
Nigel Farage owns the Reform company
It doesn’t need to get more democratic to become infested by Ine Nation traitors. It need strong leadership to keep it true to form.
There’s enough choice for the electorate with the liblabcon.
July 21, 2024
At the same time as Farage has already acknowledged Reform needs to become a professional party with local campaigning organisation, candidates who are properly vetted, and a full range of policy approaches across all areas of government that are well thought through and costed. They need to build a team that the public can have confidence in, so they can see who would be likely to be in a cabinet giving sound direction to their departments and helping to reach collegiate decisions. They need to be seen to be taking on local problems in constituencies.
July 21, 2024
Extrapolating your numbers nationally – turnout fell by 7.3% from 2019.
Labour got 9% more of the total vote share than the conservatives. If the conservatives had stood any chance of winning it is not inconceivable that 2% of the Reform protest vote may have felt more inclined to vote (least worst) Conservative to keep Labour out. My seat was won by Labour by 600 votes so I may have deliberated when voting to keep out the LGB and freak supporting Labour student politician who got in.
July 21, 2024
It is a political mistake to divide most voters simply into left wing and right wing voters. Political commentators have been unable to grasp that Donald Trump’s main inroads have not been into supposedly ‘centrist’ independent voters but into traditional Democrat voters. The same could probably be said of Boris Johnson and Margaret Thatcher before him – they by force of personality and clarity of policies were able to attract traditional Labour voters more than centrist voters. The one Conservative M.P. capable of doing that next time is Suella Braverman. (she is also the most profoundly thoughtful of Conservative M.P.s – see her speech to the National Conservativism conference in Washington D.C in the News section of her website even though I disagree with a bit of it since ultimately I am libertarian Conservative and she is traditionalist Conservative). The point is if the next Conservative leader is advocating centrist policies little different to the Liberal Democrats they will be virtually be wiped out on the ground by locally more agile Liberal Democrats and Reform at the next General Election.. The only way the Conservative Party can ensure survival, let alone success, is with attractive, distinctive policies advocated by an articulate fearless leader. That next leader must be Suella Braverman and if that causes squeamish Conservatives to leave, better they leave now than in 5 years time when with an alternative leader the Conservative Party would no longer exist in a politically meaningful sense.
July 21, 2024
Let us move back to 1975 for a moment. Margaret Thatcher, backed intellectually by Sir Keith Joseph, stood for a clean break with the drift into corporate managerialist decline under Heath. Her rivals, Whitelaw, Howe and Prior (we can disregard Peyton), stood for more of the same. Outside the contest, the then Liberal Party under the then untainted Jeremy Thorpe was a credible vehicle for protest votes.
Now apply that to 2024. Does the Conservative Party with to stay alive, and if so, what for?
July 22, 2024
Mrs Thatcher, like Nigel, was a fighter. She took on opponents; she didn’t try to appease them.
I don’t think the Not-a-Conservative Party has a real fighter amongst the rump-MPs who were elected/re-elected. It will be interesting to see if one emerges, but I don’t think it’s likely.
July 21, 2024
The election was fought over which of two duff parties should form a government for five years. Both claim to hold the centre ground between the ‘hard’ left and the ‘hard’ right.
The reason for the continuing existence of these two failed alternatives is the First Past the Post electoral system which deters the formation of newer parties emerging around a rejection of the consensus politics we have which have been so destructive to our nation state with mass immigration, acute housing shortages, the worst healthcare in Europe, a hypocritical posturing concerning the EU, and a foreign policy which is far more concerned with other people’s borders and who should be in charge than protecting our own from invasion.
Discussions about how to save the Tory party or why it is essential in order to save us from the Labour party are just nauseating. No political party should demand the right to exist purely for historical reasons despite its chronic malperformance.
July 21, 2024
I was amazed in Wokingham that the Reform vote was so low. That may well have been because of your fairly late withdrawal. I was in two minds whether to vote for you or Reform, eventually deciding you would carry on putting forward sensible views and had been a good MP for the area so I would vote for you. Many in Reform on their research felt the same so this seat was not prioritised. Whilst the Conservatives did not have much time, the Central Office professional wannabe from Banbury says it all about their views of the electorate. Reform as a new party and organisation did not have the capability to ramp up their campaign. I still expected more kickback from the true Conservative voters, but this seat now has become a prime target for Reform – let’s hope they succeed.
July 21, 2024
Reform won’t succeed without proper organisational structure. They don’t have one in Wokingham or anywhere else, as far as I can see. From time to time, I shall continue to google ‘Reform Party Wokingham’ to see whether they have any online presence. Up to now there has been no information except about the candidate they had in the general election.
July 22, 2024
That’s what they are now focusing on. Zia Yusuf, the new Chairman and a former Tech Entrepreneur, will prioritise it.
July 21, 2024
A big problem for the Conservative party, is the gap between its largely ‘One nation’ parliamentary party, and the real Conservatism of its wider membership. We saw the result of this with the Parliamentary party’s refusal to support Liz Truss, and there must be every likelihood that this will be repeated with the new leader. The Conservative party should recognise that its two wings are incompatible and they should go their separate ways.
July 21, 2024
Those in control at the top of the Conservative Party have diverted the Partyâs policies away from such a large proportion of its members and natural voters that it has made the Party at best obsolete and at worst considered to be totally untrustworthy.
If the One Nation group continue to control the Party then their policies of mass immigration, Net Zero, high spend and tax and continued acceptance of Parliamentâs authority being usurped by institutions dominated by the Left, will mean that they will be seen to be as much use as an Opposition to the government as a chocolate teapot.
So not only will the Conservative Party be obsolete in this Parliament but Parliament itself.
July 21, 2024
âThe voting pattern means there are many voters who want a more identifiably conservative approach to borders, taxes, economic growth than the last government managed and than Labour is offering.â
No mention of Net Zero. To attempt to discuss the economy without including the disastrous economic effect of Net Zero is akin to discussing housing, schools, healthcare and infrastructure shortages without including the massive population growth through uncontrolled immigration
July 21, 2024
PR is a deal-breaker for me.
The big âabstentionâ in the election also spoke louder than words. Better to abstain than vote for something you donât want (unless the priority is to sack a truly bad incumbent).
I canât see the rump of the Conservative Party getting it all together, the more real conservatives who leave the more difficult it is to win the argument for conservatism within the Tory Party. Thatâs why it had been rudderless for decades.
We need to grow a proper, responsible, democratic Conservative movement with all the heavyweights as the anchor.
July 21, 2024
PR policy can always be changed, Look at Labour and Lib Demâs current view.
July 21, 2024
Should the Tory values & leadership reflect the party membership or the parliamentary party MPs ? Should the Tory party HQ or constituency party manage the selection process, who’s writing policy & manifesto and whoâs wagging the dog
July 21, 2024
Sir John
These ConSocialist are living in a fanciful lop-sided World. They have nothing to do with being part of âOne Nationâ they are just left-wing Socialists. They are just misplaced Labour Party members
Political parties have been sucked into a World that is remote from reality, of the 48,208.000 eligible to vote in the UK only 28,896,000 did. So, parties they justify their own personal self-esteem by talking of the popular vote, as if to try and hide the fact 20 million(2 in 5) the biggest sector just couldnât vote for Socialism. 20% voted labour so just 1 in 5, add in the LibDems and the left excluding the Conservatives got just 27% of the available vote.
Socialism at is core has big uncontrolled spending of other peopleâs money at its heart. Their ineptitude then seeks to hide the mistakes with massive tax and borrowing as if it is an earn’t income. The doctrine of the last Conservative Government, the holy grail for the so-called not âone nationâ group
The previous Conservative Government did this in spades, and having the door opened for them Labour is proposing the same. So, proposing a continuity candidate as leader misses the point
Meanwhile the average person living in the UK is our there fighting to balance their finances, trying to keep afloat, wanting to be resilient and self-reliant, by either cutting back or earning more â itâs called housekeeping, budgeting. They are the Conservatives, the Countries centre ground. So, when you have political groupings playing fast and loose with the endeavours of the average person they are being kicked in the teeth, disenfranchised.
July 21, 2024
The left just doesnât get it, they have just launched Great British Energy. Stolen ÂŁ8.3 Billion from the Taxpayer to give to Red Ed to spend how he wishes.
Where is Rachael Reeveâs with here new powers for the OBR to stop fanciful Political spending?
Removing ÂŁ8.3 Billion from the economy is ÂŁ8.3 Billion that wonât get spent in the economy â were do these people keep their brains?
As a comparison
Since 2010 Germany has spent 0.5 trillion Euros on renewable energy plants, i.e. wind turbines, solar panels etc.
This has reduced their consumption of fossil fuels from 79.6% to 79.3%, according to the international energy Authority.
GB energy with its paltry 8.3 billion pounds is going to de carbonise the grid by 2030.
July 21, 2024
IB :
ÂŁ8.3bn will not go very far. It is the current cost of 8 months of renewables subsidies.
July 21, 2024
The One Nation group of Conservatives are not Conservatives at all – why the heck don’t they join labour if they believe so heartily in their policies?
Nobody is going to vote in a Tory party made up of One Nation Conservatives no matter how many there are. Time these misfits were purged, but of course that would require that Tory HQ be also purged, but Tory HQ still do what the establishment want.
Let’s face it, there is no second way. The only way that I and many like me will vote Tory is if they follow Thatcherite policies, otherwise they are lost and we will never need a light version of labour disguised as Conservatives.
July 21, 2024
Should the One Nationers wish to better reveal their uniparty credentials, whilst outflanking Labour through a display of compassion and imagination, they could do no better for a new party leader than Emily Thornberry M.P..
July 21, 2024
âThey [the One Nation group] want to downplay migration, move closer to the EU, talk more about public services and uphold the European human rights law.â
They also want Net Zero, a communist device, based upon the totally false hoax that increasing atmospheric CO2 through burning hydrocarbon fuels will lead to a climate catastrophe, to destroy the West by destroying its access to affordable, abundant and reliable energy.
July 21, 2024
PS :
Not only have Professors Happer & Wijngaarden shown doubling CO2 causes just a 0.7 degree C increase average global temperature but the IPCC itself calculates this to be just 1.2 degrees C (WG1 âThe Physical Science Basisâ P95). This is as a result of a phenomenon known as IR saturation which occurs because there is already sufficient atmospheric CO2 to absorb all the planetâs IR radiation emitted in the IR bands that CO2 can absorb. The Royal Society confirms that IR saturation exists.
The (anthropogenic) CO2 theory that CO2 controls the planetâs temperature cannot explain past climate history â higher temperatures than today, ice ages and subsequent warming, CO2 following temperature in the Antarctic Vostok ice core data etc etcâ so any idea that it can predict future temperature is just laughable.
July 21, 2024
Sir John
People just couldnât bring themselves to vote for those that kept lying. Just as getting rid of BoJo didnât remove the problem as his collective responsibility continuity gang remained.
So, wanting to install a non-Conservative as a continuity leader doesnât remove the problem â it perpetuates it and compounds it.
Having a Socialist âone nationâ group, that has announced rejoining the unaccountable EU as its aim, embedded within the Conservative Party is an insult to Conservatives. Free sovereign, self-governing with a democratically elected legislators, and a resilient self reliant economy â is conservative.
The âone nationâ group saying that the hard-working centre, the majority, of the UK is right-wing is insulting they are the centre ground(the majority) of the UK neither left or right, they are hard-working, they budget what the spend become resilient and self-reliant by earning their way to their future, the Conservative way.
So having those that are big uncontrolled spenders and thinking that high tax and borrowings are earnings, is they only way, then calling themselves conservatives is insulting.
That is also why what called itself a Conservative Government lost â Labour didnât win. The Conservative Government become Socialist it merged itself with Labour & the Lib Dems to become the UniParty
We the people lost our Conservative Party, we were disenfranchised by ego and personal self-gratification
July 21, 2024
Rachel Reeve our Chancellor is talking about freeing up the pension industry so that the 800 Billion it is currently valued at can be invested in industry and high tech to prodhce a much better return and better pensions. I imagine she also has in mind a higher tax return for HMG. Providing there is an absolute block on investment in anything to do with government I have no objection.
When the details are clear, please run your analytical slide run over the scheme so that we can judge it dispassionately.
July 21, 2024
“The voting pattern means there are many voters who want a more identifiably conservative approach to borders, taxes, economic growth than the last government managed and than Labour is offering. ”
Indeed it does and they do. Matt Goodwin has been saying this for a very long time and that voters don’t find conservatism in the Tory Party. The fact is that in this election the only party that offered a properly conservative set of policies was Reform. Others say voting for Reform was just a protest vote that damaged the Conservative Party. That is a limp excuse for refusing to face the facts. Lord Frost is one of the few who recognises the truth: Reform did not split the conservative vote. The Conservative Party deserted conservatism which consequently found a new home in Reform.
July 21, 2024
Good analysis.
Those MPs still in Parliament still don’t understand the reasons for the huge loss and seem determined to offer us more of the same – madness!
Where do true Conservatives place their vote next time?
If the one-nation wets prevail, the rump of the parliamentary Conservative Party would be fighting the LibDems for the same voters so why not merge the two parties and done with it?
Those true Conservatives on the right could be wasting their futures hanging on to a tarnished brand and Reform may be the logical choice.
All very sad!
July 21, 2024
DFP – Those MPs still in parliament are career politicians and do not have YOUR or anybody’sintersets at heart. They tick boxes and go along with the herd.
Just look at the attendance in the HoC, Do you think they care?
Wake up people.
You had your chance to vote Reform UK with NOTHING to lose and you Failed.
So live with the consequences.
July 21, 2024
The next election will be similar to the last one. People will be fed up with the government and vote for change. If the Tories move to the centre, they will look like the party in power, so why vote for them if you want change?
July 21, 2024
A large part of the loss of Wokingham is because you had such a large personal vote. You were the most clear-sighted Conservative MP who was still in the Party, as well as being a jolly good constituency MP, which also counts for a lot.
I think the âconservativeâ party is finished – a bit like the Liberals 125 years ago. It is no longer conservative, but has absorbed the socialist zeitgeist. What does it conserve? Nothing! It used to be said that the Church of England was the Conservative Party at prayer – but now its leader lights candles to foreign gods in Downing Street. It isnât remotely honest. It offered us Brexit and gave us Brino. It is under the same puppeteer as the Labour Party.
I was taught to vote person, not party, and I will continue to do so – but not conservative. They say one thing and do another, following the example of the Labour Party. We canât trust them. We did trust you, but your leaders ignored what you said, so as far as I am concerned – and I know this goes for my family and friends, too – never again conservative.
July 21, 2024
Consider the ECHR. Labour say they will never leave it. Reform say they will leave it. The Conservative ? Some MPs say they will never leave it, some say they will leave it. WHICH IS IT ? Why on earth would anyone vote for them when their policies are so unclear ? A vote for them simple say the leader can do whatever he/she fancies on ECHR.
July 21, 2024
If the inappropriately named Conservative Party or the âconservative movementâ wishes to continue with changing our culture using the massive importation of civilizationally dissimilar and intolerant migrants coupled with the Net Zero Strategy designed to make us poorer with the rationing of energy, food, heating and travel in the name of saving the planet from our 1% contribution to global CO2 emissions, not that there is any proof that CO2 controls the temperature anyway, then I wonât be voting for them. So as to who is the leader is immaterial to me. And neither of course will I be part of the 20% of the electorate who voted Labour.
The only way to achieve any democracy in the in the future will be through referendums on immigration and Net Zero.
July 21, 2024
With Trump winning the USA november election ….does that signal the end of net-zero and the start of traditional values
July 22, 2024
Trump has said he’d repeal net-zero and save the USA motor industry
July 22, 2024
Unfortunately voters will have to re-learn the hard way that you cannot rely on the state for everything.
At present, the average voter likes the idea of the government paying for most services and providing benefits for every possible eventuality. They don’t understand what that all costs.
We older voters, those over 65 who have experience multiple Labour administrations, know only too well that this never works in the long run. That’s why we overwhelmingly vote Conservative, despite recent Conservative governments having sorely tried our patience. Boris might have won an 80 seat majority, but he brought with him much increased expenditure and a big committment to Net Zero that will eventually have to be reversed.
We are now saddled with huge debts because his chancellor, Sunak, devised a ridiculously overgenerous Furlough scheme. To pay workers 80% of their wages for not working actually made them better off !
It should have been no more than 50-60% of gross pay, and his ÂŁ50,000 business loan scheme required no evidence and resulted in many billions of fraudulent handouts, often claims submitted by immigrants setting up fraudulent new companies for the sole purpose of making a claim. They must have thought it was Christmas every week. No attempt appears to be being made to recover any of this money. Most of it is likely to have been transferred abroad to relatives in Africa and the Indian Sub-Continent.
It will take at least a full parliamentary term before Labour has put up taxes massively and drags us to the IMF when they run out of our money. Then younger voters might see sense and vote them out – but only if another party emerges that has sensible economic policies.
It could be the Conservatives, Reform, or a combination of both. I don’t much care which it is.
July 23, 2024
That is why the tory party is permanently broken. The wet lib on nationists won’t be told. They’ve been around a long time taking down Mrs Thatcher back in the day. It needs a split, with thatcherites joining with Reform. The wets have nowhere else to go than somewhere akin to the liberals. It really is over as a two party system, but it will surely take another lost general election in five years time to convince either side that the old days of a broad church conservative party are indeed over. Liz Truss already saw that.
July 23, 2024
What do the one-nation group of MPs believe differently than the Liberal Democrats? If they want to be Liberal Democrats, why don’t they stand as Liberal Democrats?
I know why I can’t support the Liberal democrats.
I don’t support reintegration into the EU.
I don’t support increased public spending without a lot more control, competition between trusts and surgeries.
They support immigration in uncontrolled numbers and benefits, I can’t support abolishing salary thresholds as that indicates more benefit support for new arrivals. I think we should train more of our own people from 16 in the caring professions with paid on the job training, with external training days leading to transferable qualifications.
I don’t support making climate ambitions to net zero five years less to achieve it. nor do I support free insulation and free heat pumps.
The rest is just wishy, washy votes for 16 (don’t support), voting reform, they would just sell the UK out.