The Archbishop of Canterbury tells us solidarity is at the heart of Christianity. Thatâs  not the Word the Bible uses.
The origins of solidarity in modern politics is somewhat different to that. I attended a Methodist school with a Christian education in RE classes. I was never introduced to the word solidarity in those sessions, and never saw it appear on the pages of the Bible translations we used. At the heart of Christian teaching was the idea of Christian charity, and the modern political versions of it in Christian Aid. The relevant Bible passages were about the rich and powerful helping the poor and needy as an act of charity. They gave them money, jobs, support without expecting anything in return. They did so because it was morally good to share some of their wealth and power, They should not pass by on the other side without helping those in need. The unreformed Catholic Church of the medieval period sold pardons and the promise of eternal life to the rich to sustain clerical incomes and to pass money to the needy. These practices had their supporters and produced an early limited welfare state with hospitals and some support for the poor, but also bred their critics over clerical use of the money. It led to the huge Protestant revolt and the dissolution of the monasteries in Protestant countries. In England it led to a flowering of charitable giving by the newly prosperous landowners and traders that benefitted from the dissolution, leading to many almshouses, and the Elizabethan poor relief system organised by parishes.
Solidarity is a concept from the Union movement. Most famously it became a well known political movement in Poland in the 1980s, seeking the overthrow of authoritarian communism. The idea of solidarity amongst workers is not the same as Christian charity. It is a mutual insurance and assurance scheme. Each Union member pays Union dues. These are used to promote their shared causes, and some of the money is used to help individual members in need of legal assistance or temporary income support because they have hit hard times. The Union member pledges to obey Union rules, and to withdraw his or her labour should the Union by ballot decide on industrial action. The mutual part is based on clear obligations or responsibilities on the Union member, in return for various benefits and the possibility of joint action in need.
The EU took up the idea of solidarity as an important concept in the Treaty of Lisbon and thereafter. The idea of EU solidarity is to tell member states they have to meet their responsibilities to the economic and political union, in return for possible help in their times of need. There is an implied promise of assistance should their state fall on hard times or suffer some natural disaster. That part is a mutual insurance scheme. There is also a mutual assurance scheme that one state threatened in some way would qualify for the support of all in a just cause under the Treaties. The member state has to promise to keep to the rules of the Union, to pay money into the Union coffers, to accept joint action and be willing to come to the assistance of other members in specified circumstances.
The wealthier EU countries led by Germany do not think solidarity requires them to send large sums on a charitable basis to the poorer parts of the Union. Nor does the concept extend to meeting the internationally agreed target of 0.7% for overseas aid. The offer of mutual support can also be selective, as Greece and Cyprus discovered in the Euro crisis. Solidarity leads to a modest scale of regional and social grants at EU level. It is a frequent demand on recalcitrant member states when the EU is seeking to get to a collective agreement, a reason given to make compromises.
Solidarity in the sense of helping the poor is also hedged and often queried by member states. The EU has struggled over the issue of  migration and borders in trying to decide how much of an obligation it owes to the poor of the non EU world. It has ended accepting miles of border fence and efforts to deter illegal settlers. Currently the EU wishes to buy up supplies of vaccine for its own citizens, not to help distribute vaccine to the low income countries of the world as the WHO would like. I am not sure this squares with the Archbishop’s view of Christian values.
January 31, 2021
I am not shocked as you stand in a long tradition of politicians having to school churchmen in the meaning of Christianity. Did not Margaret herself have to offer guidance to the then Moderator of the Church of Scotland?
January 31, 2021
Mrs Thatcherâs Sermon on the Mount (accused of arrogantly lecturing church leaders on theology). ‘I believe that by taking together these key elements from the Old and New Testaments, we gain: a view of the universe, a proper attitude to work, and principles to shape economic and social life. We are told we must work and use our talents to create wealth. “If a man will not work he shall not eat” wrote St. Paul to the Thessalonians. Indeed, abundance rather than poverty has a legitimacy which derives from the very nature of Creation.’……. “Christianity is about spiritual redemption, not social reform”. A speech that rightly emphasised personal responsibility, wealth creation and the danger of an overly-active state.
January 31, 2021
â If a man will not work, he shall not eatâ
We really need to get back to that principal, we have far too many âhangers onâ in our country, seeing us as an easy ride!
January 31, 2021
Clearly some exceptions are needed for those who really cannot work but a safety net not a meal ticket for life.
January 31, 2021
Mike Durrans
+1
January 31, 2021
I think the biggest problem is someone who is able to work who does not is able to live as well as someone who does work.
We need to prevent this. Short term help not long term except for the sick and disabled
January 31, 2021
If you could sum up in one word, the very thing amongst the ordinary people, which Conservatism is dedicated to destroying, then John’s heading does that.
Thank you.
January 31, 2021
Martin, Have you spoken to every one of the “ordinary people” to actually know this, or are you just confirming your own prejudices?
February 1, 2021
The ballot box tells you something surely ?
We are one of the most individualistic nations on earth as many cultural studies have shown. We are forced by socialist style governments to pay for things that we do not wish to pay for, which are never reversed in any significant way by conservative governments.
January 31, 2021
Good morning.
Not being familiar with holy scripts of the Christian and other religions, perhaps our kind host and / or others can help me with this.
Is there anywhere in any religion that specifically talks about Climate Change and other ‘in vogue’ causes ?
https://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/our-moral-opportunity-climate-change
I ask as, I always thought that ‘extreme weather events’ were an act of God and not man.
January 31, 2021
Extreme weather and other event are in fact declining significantly and the damage done can be much mitigated by stronger houses, better medical care, advance warnings, flood defences, fire breaks and the likes. Cheap reliable energy enables more of this.
Bjorn Lomborg has much sensible stuff to say on this. Today he tweets:-
Climate change most significant public health issue of our time” Biden’s Climate Advisor McCarthy
Heart disease kills 33% and cancer 26% of all Americans
Heat kills 0.3% and declining. Cold 6.4% and increasing
Yes, problem. No, 0.3% not the biggest challenge.
January 31, 2021
+1 Well said!
January 31, 2021
We mustn’t allow a pensioner die of CV-19 according to Andy – so how many will be allowed to die of hypothermia ?
January 31, 2021
@LifeLogic – If, heaven forbid, you might actually be wrong and climate change is a potential catastrophe in the making – you are equating people who die naturally (often older and in poor health due to lifestyle choices) with the potential (we are warned!) that the whole human race is at risk.
Hard to equate one with the other, really.
January 31, 2021
I don’t think @LL is denying that the climate is changing. I understand from his posts that he doesn’t think it is man made and he disagrees with the measures forced upon us.
January 31, 2021
Mike W, We are not going to die out because of “climate change” – you are thinking of the CAGW theory which does claim just that. Personally, Dr Mann notwithstanding, I think us being wiped out by a major asteroid impact is more likely than from CAGW.
January 31, 2021
I am an agnostic, but during my lifetime have often found it worth listening to former Archbishops of Canterbury, from Geoffrey Fisher to Rowan Williams; regardless of their individual differences in personality, all seemed capable of emanating some form of empathy and, on occasions, warmth and kindliness.
I regret I have never found anything like that with Archbishop Welby, who frequently gives the impression of being a rejected LibDem Westminster candidate.
January 31, 2021
Often worth listening to these dopes as what they is invariable wrong and idiotic and often hilarious too. The vague words they constantly use to dance their way round logic and reason. Things like âGod moves in mysterious waysâ. Worth listening to like Prince Charles, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Lord Adonis, Greta, the daft Green MP from Brighton with the english degree, Hillary Benn and all the deluded socialists and millions of others. A reminder of just how irrational, amusing, hypocritical, self contradictory and daft so very many humans can be.
I was in a C of E church choir as a child. It certainly gave me my love of church and secular music for which I am grateful but also made me an atheist at about 8 or 9 also grateful for this. Listening to the Vicar thanking God for saving a child, perhaps dug out after an earthquake, & yet ignoring all the many hundreds of other killed by it or still lying buried alive. What had these people done to enrage God so? If you asked you got the âGod moves in mysterious waysâ answer above. Or some other daft brush off.
January 31, 2021
Most of them can be described as left wing.
The CofE being one of the richest organisations in the country provides little in the way of charity.
Un the developing world a good many are corrupt.
Not my cup of tea.
January 31, 2021
The church is often more interested in collecting charitable donations than actually donating. Though I do like church building and music and often donate to these causes.
January 31, 2021
The “God moves in mysterious ways” answer is true but not adequate. The answer you needed had to go deeper in thought, and was probably beyond the comprehension of the average listener, and even require a lifetime of study. How does a transformer work? There might be a simple explanation, but I find it very challenging to explain to someone without several years’ study of physics, and even then they might not understand.
January 31, 2021
Try Google. Very clear to me in just a few paras. No, I did not devote much time to the study of physics.
On the other hand the mysterious workings of god(s) are glibly explained in meaningless mumbo-jumbo.
February 1, 2021
Lifelogic, If I understand C S Lewis correctly (I probably don’t), the problem of pain is that if God (god) was good and almighty he would make his creation happy: therefore God is either not good, or not all powerful (book: “The Problem of Pain”).
Dr Lewis said: “Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find you have excluded life itself” – in other words pain is a practical necessity for our lives. He then insists that God is both good and loving. In the rest of the book, Dr Lewis seeks to reconcile those two: pain and love.
I am not convinced he succeeds. However the atheist has equal problems: principally that it is impossible for there to be a universal morality (and/or truth) which is not absolute and external (to us). And that implies (but does not prove) there must be some form of god (in short). As the 20 odd physical constants that make the universe possible, do likewise, of course.
January 31, 2021
Iâm certain that your definition of âsolidarityâ squares with the Archbishopâs view of christian values. Look at the Bishops voting record for confirmation.
The church, in spite of its tax privileges, pushed its luck until no Christian can stand sitting silent for a lecture on unadulterated socialism each week. Christians search out Christian teaching elsewhere. The church is empty and therefore poor as a direct result of the anti-Christian activity of the last few Archbishops, one of whom, Williams was a Druid. The Archbishop is reminding the rest of the U.K. of its âobligation to fund the poor church in its hour of needâ.
How else will they be able to continue berating us, depriving us of religious solace (the churches were CLOSED in 2020) and acquiring much wealth for lunches in palaces throughout the land for the âchosen fewâ?
The Church of England is âdoneâ – Christianity will thrive released from these entitled, bombastic, false prophets.
January 31, 2021
Was this an act of Fake Tory solidarity no matter how wrong the act was?
January 31, 2021
Sadly, the words apostasy and hypocrisy come to mind. But human failure is common to us all, and if there is one thing we need to know right now, it’s that the Bible’s predictions and ultimate fulfilment will not fail. ‘Wisdom is justified of her children’.
January 31, 2021
Who wrote this âBibleâ of which you speak?
Does it contain the winning lottery numbers too?
January 31, 2021
Even you, Mr Wilson, are a sign of the times. As the apostle Peter wrote in his second letter (Ch 3:3) “…knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming?”
January 31, 2021
Matthew 25, verses 1-13. Pay particular attention to verses 8 and 9. Says it all about the EU.
January 31, 2021
That’s many words about one, John.
Do you also have similarly detailed and specific definitions for ones such as “patriotism” or are you content to let your posters use them to mean whatever they want them to mean?
I’d be interested to read a few more.
But I think that we know what the AoC meant, and so the word has served its purpose perfectly. He meant a principled, concerned support for our fellow kind, wherever they might be, in facing common adversities.
Yes, that undermines what your party are trying to do, and jolly good of him too.
January 31, 2021
âHe meant a principled, concerned support for our fellow kind, wherever they might be, in facing common adversitiesâ
Seems unlikely given his and the churches record. Perhaps he should sell of Lambeth Palace and all the C of E palaces and put the money in the poor box then. Not very energy efficient those large old palaces.
January 31, 2021
He means global wealth re-distribution, communism. Another hypocritical Common Purpose drone
January 31, 2021
The AoC seems to have confused himself with AOC.
January 31, 2021
Appelation dâOrigine Controlee? Do you think he is too keen on the altar wine?
January 31, 2021
I cannot help thinking that nearly all religions are inherently (almost by definition) racist in thinking their religions is the true one and the rest are deluded/inferior need to be rescued or are off to hell. Yet these religions want legal protection from any criticism or discrimination against them while clearly often doing this themselves).
Climate alarmism is similar except with this religion we are all off to hell unless we all worship the new (sometimes) rotating blades on the hills or in seas off Brighton etc.
January 31, 2021
Is it charitable for governments to tax people massively and then give some of that money away to what ministers think is a good charity? Surely one can only really be charitable and generous using your own hard earned money? Not money extracted from others under duress.
Certainly more efficient to cut out the rip off middle man I find. But alas most charities now are hot beds of deluded socialism and climate alarmism or just self interested businesses run for the over paid employees, so choose well.
January 31, 2021
I’ve always understood solidarity to mean standing together, solidly, supporting one another, in friendship, and with the origins of the word being French, long before any political movement of the 1980s. Just as the word conservative, with its original meaning to preserve and protect, was adopted centuries after it arrived in the English language via French and Latin, but can also be interpreted in many different ways – such as being resistant to change, opposed to progress. Language evolves. Humankind evolves. Hairs can be split.
January 31, 2021
Absolutely – I think that John protests too much, which is telling.
His party want to play silly jingoistic vaccine nationalism and the AoC has exposed them, along with the wise words of WHO.
The WHOLE world needs vaccination before life can return to normal. It is not only morally reprehensible to gloat over others’ problems in this regard, but it is also economically self-defeating, not that this would bother the Tories one bit if it gave good polling.
January 31, 2021
Who is gloating over othersâ misfortunes regarding the supply of vaccines. I have yet to hear any gloating.
I feel like gloating, a bit, regarding the EUâs recent display of its true colours.
January 31, 2021
I don’t think anyone is gloating over this. Nor does anyone think that we can be an island in inoculated isolation. But it is rather emotionally restorative to be ahead of the game for once, rather than behind it. There has been no restraint from those who criticise us in the applause for Jacinda Ardern and New Zealanders, for example.
February 1, 2021
Whole world does not need vaccination. The case fatality rate is negligible in those aged under 50 years without co-morbidities. The reported efficacy of the vaccine is less than the effectiveness of their immune responses. Africa and India are relatively young populations and India offers anti-covid treatment over-the-counter (ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, zinc and azithromycin).
January 31, 2021
The EU is a great example of countries working together, supporting each other and showing solidarity. And solidarity does mean standing together – as well as being the name of a bonkers left wing political movement. (In the same way that conservative means to conserve as well as being the name of a bonkers right wing political movement).
Take the EUâs much maligned but actually highly successful vaccination procurement programme. The EU ordered from most of the same suppliers as the UK but paid significantly less for the vaccines. Little Estonia, Cyprus and Malta got a significantly better deal than us because they worked together with 23 other countries. We massively overpaid for our vaccines because we bought alone.
You can understand why. Our government was – and is – desperate. Another 1200 dead with COVID in the UK yesterday alone. That is 50% more in ONE DAY than have died in Estonia, Cyprus and Malta combined throughout this entire pandemic.
Most EU countries are 2 to 3 weeks behind us with their vaccination programmes. This is mostly because the EMA took a little longer to approve the drugs for use. While for us three extra weeks would be dreadful – with more than 1000 deaths a day it is potentially 20,000 more dead. For Malta a 3 week delay may be fewer than a dozen deaths.
When the public inquiry comes around the UK vaccination programme with be praised for the speed of the NHS rollout. But it will be condemned for the huge overspend on vaccines and the ridiculous over-ordering. We have inexplicably bought three times more than we need – hoarding doses for us that should be going to other countries. It is poorer people in other countries who the Tories are consigning to death by massively over ordering and it is our money they are staffing up a wall. It is actually outrageous.
Reply How do you know the buying prices which have not been published? The vaccines are being supplied not for profit.
January 31, 2021
Yes, I think that the over-purchase was to engineer this very problem with the European Union, Andy.
There’s no amount of your and my money that they won’t throw at creating these sorts of headlines.
January 31, 2021
What a silly post. When the orders were placed it was not known which vaccines would work or be approved. Other countries which have got their act together like the US Canada and Israel did the same thing. You have no clue about pricing – the AZ vaccine eg is being sold at cost.
The fiasco of the vaccines and especially the ludicrous, aggressive behaviour of the EU as it flounders in the face of its failure illustrates all that is wrong with it. As is being noticed in europe and around the world.
January 31, 2021
Andy dreams- me thinks! Ignore him, he will go away
January 31, 2021
Comparing Estonia, Malta and Cyprus to the UK is desperate. Maybe they paid less, maybe they didn’t, but he fact is they haven’t got the goods or the vaccinations done. Why if what you say is true did the Commission make a prize ass of itself and try to strong-arm the British manufacturers to divert supplies to the EU and to try to stop Pfizer delivering to the UK and create a border in Ireland, without consulting that country? Secondly, we are not hoarding as the orders have not yet been delivered, we are using them up as fast as they are delivered – we prudently ordered plenty in case the vaccines could not be made in sufficient number or efficacious enough. Any we have left over we have already said will be sent where they are needed. I submit hat is not the EU, though weak Boris and Gove still think they are ‘friends’ even after their recent display of childish petulance . And of course the UK provides more in Foreign Aid than any EU country. You are, as usual, completely and utterly wrong. Maybe you won’t take your vaccine when the time comes and you will donate it abroad?
January 31, 2021
Malta, Estonia and Cyprus have âgot the goods.â And all three have already given second jabs to a similar percentage of their populations as we have. The EU is 27 countries. Some small countries. Some medium sized. Some big. Overall they have vaccinated more people than we have.
Yes, they have supply issues – so do we – and some countries have worse distribution problems than others. But if you think EU countries arenât vaccinating anyone then you have been badly let down by the Brexit press. Not for the first time, eh?
February 1, 2021
So desperate to find something the EU has done well. Maybe I’m misinformed about Estonia, Cyprus and Malta, don’t know, but I don’t tell blatant lies like the UK is hoarding vaccines against the poor world when they have not even been produced and only two so far have received approval. Also when I mentioned short supply I was thinking about real countries like Germany and France who will probably not match the UK before Easter. You ignore completely the question of the EU’s actions last Saturday in Ireland and in their own back yard. You really do make us laugh Andy in your determination to do down the UK and boost the sclerotic EU with any outrageous lie..
January 31, 2021
Tell the Greeks that the EU is a great example of working together and solidarity. They, quite rightly will laugh in your face. And, please, no bigoted remarks about the Greek people in response.
January 31, 2021
Brexitists love to go in about Greece. The EU bailed out Greece. The conditions were harsh, yes. But they had to be to protect EU taxpayers.
What you forget that if Greece had not been bailed out by its friends it would have gone bust and become a failed state.
Also, the Greeks could have left the EU if they were that unhappy with it all. They havenât and they wonât. But they thank you for moaning on their behalf.
February 1, 2021
And meanwhile their ‘friends’ in Germany still have not paid in full their war reparations to Greece for the atrocities they did there. Great friends.
January 31, 2021
Same for Italy when EU changed their govt and specifically when crying for help with PPE at beginning of March Ursula von dim wit apologised but that did not bring back the dead. Every nation was for themselves particularly hypocrites unilateral Germany. Germany even bought vaccines quietly last year! Like it asking all EU countries to go green while building coal power stations and importing huge amounts of gas from Russia! No stopping German dominance over EU while claiming unity!
January 31, 2021
Of course, we don’t need to look for UK based critics of the EU’s vaccine handling. Choose instead the rioters in Spain, Denmark, the Netherlands and Germany. Also the German press.
January 31, 2021
PS, the delay is three months, I believe and not ‘three weeks’ as you say.
January 31, 2021
The EU cheapskate attitude has cost them significant delay in vaccine rollout, and in turn much damage in death, illness, riot and economic consequences that far exceeds the cheeseparing savings. They should have been marshalling resources to speed the process up, which is precisely what the UK taskforce did.
January 31, 2021
Interesting – a sad reflection on how the Church has accepted ideas that modify their own teachings…
Charity has become a dirty word as far as I’m concerned. We are bombarded with messages from those pushing the CV message as well as those pleading us to send just ÂŁ3 a month to alleged famine victims or donkeys. They even tell us we can adopt a leopard, but God knows how any benefits could be traced to an individual creature.
It really is time these charities were investigated for effectiveness – It always appears that despite decades of us being charitable, that the same old problems are still there… Is that incompetence or corruption.
With each new charity being formed, it is easy to see who benefits the most, CEO’s retain high salaries before any money gets used for it’s actual purpose.
I no longer get swayed by scenes of horror from charities, for the same images are too often repeated, and I have no way of knowing, in this age of perverse hypnotizing propaganda just what the real truth is.
January 31, 2021
Oh, I’m sure that the rich would rather give 1% of their wealth or income to charity, amidst fanfares of virtue-signalling publicity – to be spent in a sporadic and ineffective manner – than quietly to pay 40% tax, to be used efficiently and in a properly co-ordinated way like your typical salary earner does.
That is precisely John’s point, I think.
January 31, 2021
Indeed. We (until recent retirement reduced funds) supported a charity run by people at the (I hate to say it) CoE primary school my children went to. They provide education (pay for buildings, teachers and school fees) for children in a village in Africa. We, and the other parents who supported them, used to sponsor (pay the fees of) specific children. The people who ran the charity took no fees from the charity including paying their own airfares when visits were made. It is much nicer to support this type of charity than those with chief executives on ÂŁ200k with swish offices in London.
That said, and I donât know how much of what one might donate gets to the front line, but, large charity wise, MacMillan nurses are, for my money, definitely worth supporting.
January 31, 2021
Have you seen the sheer opulence at the properties of UK donkey sanctuaries ? Now that they’ve cured the UK donkey crisis it’s no wonder they’re scouring the globe for distressed donkeys for little old ladies to leave their fortunes to.
January 31, 2021
I believe that any so called charity that receives over 10% of its income from international, supranational, national or local governments should have its status as a charity removed. Also. Any charity that spends over a certain percentage on salaries, benefits and pensions.
That should go someway to stopping what are becoming more and more political pressure groups.
January 31, 2021
Brian
Many so called charities are listed on the Charity Commission website which show their Audited accounts.
Very interesting to view if you really want to check them out.
But please do not think all charitable organisations have large and expensive overheads with people on high Salaries, many volunteer organisations such as Lions Clubs and Rotary, along with many others have members who fund their own, and the Clubs running expenses.
January 31, 2021
The Salvation Army do not pay over the top wages either.
January 31, 2021
Alan – I don’t.
It is not the volunteer sector that is the problem – many volunteer their time without knowing what else is going on. It seems that big charities want to use high tech solutions to even stop the volunteers … Are we seeing too many who are forgetting the basic idea behind charity, wanting it to become a business?
January 31, 2021
I am not sure that the word âsolidarityâ in a sermon is a big deal. I am aware that many in the original Labour Party had a Methodist background. It has also been in the nature of Protestantism to split off into various sects over an interpretation of the Bible or a particular outlook on Christianity.
During Summer lockdown I read Robert Bensonâs dystopian novel âThe Lord of the Worldâ. It is a sort of antidote to H.G.Wells. Benson was an interesting character -the son of the Archbishop of Canterbury who converted to Catholicism and was ordained as a Catholic priest in the early 1900s.
The book describes a world with three powers left -a totalitarian secular humanism, a great Eastern empire and a much diminished Catholic Church. All other Christian denominations have been removed and their services replaced by secular celebrations. Benson saw it as the final battle with the Antichrist. You could see it as predicting a future with the Great Reset and an emerging China.
I had put this book to one side initially as it was heavy going. It was a good read though it assumes a familiarity with concepts of Catholicism that many readers may lack.
January 31, 2021
The heart of Christianity is God’s work of salvation.
Solidarity has its place, in the sense of Christians have an obligation to help each other. However, there is no place for militancy, in the Union movement interpretation of solidarity.
It was out of solidarity that the UK pushed back the Argentinian invasion of the Falkland Islands, with diplomacy falling on deaf ears.
January 31, 2021
Wow, both religion and politics, I’m staying out of this one!
Any comment, John, on the UK’s expected application to join CPTPP?
Reply I have advocated it anD wrote about it previously As the way to get a US deal
January 31, 2021
Yes, it’s better to join one rules-based association of civilised nations than none, even if it is on the other side of the world and after leaving much the same thing right next door.
I wonder if John could outline the tribunal for settling disagreements, and how that jurisdiction will work with no loss of UK sovereignty?
January 31, 2021
I wonder if you could outline which laws of the Trans Pacific lot we will have to write into our statutes and how much we will have to pay them each year? And do they move their headquarters for a week each month to satisfy the French ego?
January 31, 2021
Oh, and do the members insist on free movement of people. Forgot that one, for a moment?
January 31, 2021
MiC
“…after leaving much the same next door”
I think not, as we are talking this time about Trade only, a bit like how the Common Market was sold to us originally, which would also have been a good idea, until it was Hi jacked by those wanting complete Political power over other Nations
January 31, 2021
@MiC; The CPTPP is a Free Trade group of sovereign nations, on the other hand the the EEC had aspirations to be, and EU is, a supranational political union were the member nations have ceded their individual sovereignty. If you can not understand the difference, well, it explains why you always end up making a bit of a spectacle of yourself on this site…
January 31, 2021
There’s rules based association and rules based association which stretches the value to breaking point.
Which is which, Martin?
January 31, 2021
Fred – according to Josip Borrell, EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs, the EU is not a typical organisation “because it has its own currency, judicial system and the power to make law”. Oh, and that nice M. Barnier stated that the EU is NOT an international organisation. Clear as mud, isn’t it?
January 31, 2021
Jesus washed the feet of poor folks to show humility as did a few Popes. Many clergy today show little humility and live in a cosy bubble. Some cynics says they only work 1 day a week – that’s how low some folk view them sadly.
Growing up around the time of the IRA I used to think some go to church on Sunday only to spend the rest of the week doing the complete opposite of what was relief – respecting life.
Group think is now the plague in the Church. Virtue signalling not living a giving life. Poor show all round. Sadly they have been looking to be relevant, just like others out of touch. Tony Blair and others spring to mind…
January 31, 2021
I think the clergy are a mixed bag.
I went to a school where a Catholic priest, in charge of me, turned out to be a paedophile (and convicted and went to prison).
But then there was another Catholic priest, in charge of me, who was a living saint. Really. A brilliantly clever theologian, but so humble, with a quiet, boyish sense of humour, kind twinkle in his eye, and generous spirit. I’ll never forget him.
January 31, 2021
We have seen how inward looking is the EU in the past few days. We need to help those poorer countries unable to muscle in with this organisation, alongside Ireland whom it is both in our interest and theirs to help with vaccine.
Whatever the current love-in between the EU and Ireland, I really can foresee the Irish getting thoroughly fed up with the EU way of dealing with them and us, and moving behind us into TPP in the coming years. We need to turn the NIP into a mutual self-help programme, UK-Ireland, essentially come some way to re-unite the two countries within an Asia-Anglosphere trading and mutual co-operation relationship with the border being to the south of Ireland, not to the east of it.
January 31, 2021
The solidarity needed in this country is between MPs (if any of them have the ethics) to bring down the human rights destroying dictatorship under which we exist.
The solidarity needed in this country is between lawyers and courts to hold to account those dictators and every police officer that ‘just followed orders’. The tyrannical dictatorship under which we live must never happen again.
The solidarity needed in this country is between people to regain our individual freedom from the propaganda and the dictatorship.
Three decades ago, the world saw WaĆÄsa lead Poland to freedom, frighteningly this is the solidarity that the U.K. needs. All else is secondary.
January 31, 2021
Heartfelt +1
January 31, 2021
Religious dogma and Political power when combined have caused many problems in the World over the centuries, and is still a problem today.
Taken separately they are fine, leaving each one to their own beliefs.
January 31, 2021
Requiring a political institution to allow its citizens to die, to help, “low income countries” , is the wispiest of straw men. Of course, the Bible was conceived long before Marxist derived thinking but on the status of Nations; the Bible , history of the Church, and the spirit of Christianity is Multinational .
In fact as the early Church spread through the Roman Empire one of its distinctive features was that it was a religion for all men , not local , civic as the pagan world was. The context between Church and King is endlessly replayed and in our history and while defining Europe is not easy without ‘Christendom’ , in is impossible.
Kenneth Clarke`s civilisation begins to the sound of Bach a montage of the glories of the West before resting on Notre Dame …” I think I know it when I see it… ” he says . It is not some long forgotten barbarian mud hut in which the dark tribalism and superstition were gnawed like old bones by the Brexiteers of the dark ages ( smirk…).
PS Without the Trade Unions the charitable souls of John Redwoods imagination would still sending children into deep mines , and packing off society`s losers to the work houses at best.
January 31, 2021
It’s extremely difficult to understand the meaning of your mangled sentences, but perhaps you have forgotten that the polytheistic influence of both the Greek and Roman Empires had pretty long-lasting effects on civilisation too, as I think Lord Clark (not the former Chancellor) would have agreed.
January 31, 2021
In the name of solidarity, the WHO is now calling on the UK to suspend our vaccine programme because they clearly place less value on our lives than they do on others. Of course, the virus makes no such distinction. In fact, I find their demands quite insulting, as they appear to have conveniently forgotten that in September last year, we committed a massive chunk of money to a new global vaccine-sharing scheme AND additional sums to the WHO to enable and assist with securing worldwide distribution of vaccines. Did these leviathans also forget to place their orders for the vaccines in a timely manner, or do they operate their own hierarchy for distribution?
January 31, 2021
BJC
Would this be the same WHO that the Conservative government bunged billions too ?
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January 31, 2021
We need to fully vaccinate our country first as we have very high numbers of deaths. Our death rate is higher than that in Europe and many other countries. To under vaccinate is askin for trouble and we need our young to be sa few too.
January 31, 2021
Last week the BoC said on the BBC that “Covid kills because of inequalities.” or to that effect.
Was that meant to promote ‘solidarity’ ? I think it was meant to stir up division !
The fact is that our society has produced such equality in medicines and calories that our society has produced an obesity epidemic and raised life expectancy beyond the dreams of my working class ancestors and which was – in living memory – beyond the reach of even the richest in society.
I read magazine article after magazine article on how to eat healthily and cheaply but the working class still choose sugary fizzy pop drinks over the healthiest thing they can drink – cheap tap water.
This is all down to poor personal choice and not down to inequality as the BoC likes to claim.
The CofE lost its own solidarity (its congregation and its funding) when it abandoned any notion of judgment against excess, poor conduct and downright evil. The simple fact is that when science disproved the existence of the Devil (which the CofE couldn’t wait to abandon) it also disproved the existence of God. Its business model was to scare punters on to pews and to offer them salvation (from what, exactly ?) Now that it can’t do this it has to resort to politics and hang on to the coat tails of the Labour movement and has become its religious wing while the NHS is its industrial wing.
January 31, 2021
AoC, sorry.
January 31, 2021
The hierarchy in C of E has totally lost its way, it is now a socialist clique promoting left wing causes. Its kangaroo court even withdrew permission to officiate from Lord Carey, the best archbishop in many decades. The C of E along with many other national institutions that have been infiltrated by left wingers, need sorting out – more power needs to be given to ordinary members over the direction of their organizations.
January 31, 2021
You try to define any decent thing, which tries to moderate red-in-tooth-and-claw neoliberalism, imposed by private power as “socialist” or “communist”.
This is self-evidently a very silly thing to do.
January 31, 2021
Speaking of Christianity, I understand that Mr. Biden’s press spokeswoman recently made reference to his being “a devout Catholic”, in answer to a specific policy question. I do not believe that a policy can (implicitly) be made “Catholic” merely because the proponent of that policy identifies himself as Catholic. There is too much scope for equivocation in the use of that word, at least since the 1960s. That goes as much for statements issued from the Vatican itself as it does for a secular politician. If one is going to bring Catholicism into one’s argument, I believe you are obliged to show your working.
January 31, 2021
Solidarity can only function under an equal common purpose e.g allow or restrict illegal immigrants â when one party of that solidarity union dictates the policy and other parties are deemed weak and have to follow that policy solidarity is undermined
Every state in the United States of America is equal
Every country in the European Union is unequal
January 31, 2021
A year ago I resigned from my local churchâs parish register.
This is the means by which the âparish share is calculated and paid to the Dioceseâ
Why ?
Simply because JW the AOC had said he wished to comb through the church buildings and take out inappropriate statues or artefacts.
Having spent much of the past 30 years in helping restore parts of the Church ,understanding its history ,running courses on how to be a church guide to local schoolchildren and obtaining grant money for refurbishment I was appalled at the prospect of an arbitrary assault on the very fabric and history of the Parish Church.
So I switched my âgiving â to the âFriends of the Church â a secular but closely allied part which welcomes members of all faiths and none who are interested in the Church buildings and what they represent.
I encourage anyone else in a similar situation to do the same .
The Christian Aid charity is anything but Christian .
Money will not be disbursed to broaden grid electricity in Africa or elsewhere, only to support renewables, it reflects Government policy and in return receives an annual grant the equivalent of its salary bill .
Solidarity with its political masters I suppose.
January 31, 2021
A sad tale but unsurprising in these woke times
January 31, 2021
With the brilliant success of the U.K. govtâs vaccine procurement programme, the U.K. will of course be in a position to offer earlier and much more extensive vaccine assistance to poorer countries, in line with Christian principles – and indeed with those of any a priori system of morality.
Itâs interesting now to review the long list of leftwing people who denounced the U.K. decision last summer not to join the calamitous EU vaccine programme. Some of them went on to make disgraceful and unfounded slurs of cronyism against the magnificent Kate Bingham, who has led the U.K. effort. Among them the nonentity LibDem leader Ed Davey.
January 31, 2021
I thought Protestantism came about as a result of Henry VIII wanting a divorce. I didnât realise it was because the Catholic monks were too generous.
January 31, 2021
Catholics (and I’m one) sometimes remark that The Reformation in Britain came about because of Henry VIII. Yes, King Henry was an opportunist. But The Reformation was already there. (And The Catholic Church was just as much to blame for the Reformations as The Protestants, for the spirit of The Reformation grew out of real abuses that were taking place in the church – corruption over indulgences, simony and so on. If The Catholic Church had bothered to pull its head out of the sand and properly address these issues then there would have been no Reformation I believe – because it was primarily and fundamentally about abuses not theology – although calls for changes in theology grew as people became more frustrated with The Catholic Church’s relative unwillingness to deal with the abuses).
January 31, 2021
For those who lived that well, they could afford to be generous, on the back of the needy.
January 31, 2021
More Martin Luther and his protest expressed through the power of the written word nailed to a door of the local boozer
February 1, 2021
generous or bon viveur?
January 31, 2021
Soldarity in the EU actually means vassalage, and to a non-democratic, self-elected dictatorship.
January 31, 2021
If people want, and are able, to give some of their money to charity, then that’s undoubtedly a good thing (and I do this myself), but governments do NOT have ANY money of their own. All the money the government has is taken, by force, from the people of the country. So it is IMMORAL for governments to then give this money away to foreigners.
British governments are elected BY the British people, and FOR the British people. NOT for foreigners. For the government to take money, by force, from British citizens, and to then give this away to foreigners in a way that does not benefit the British citizens from whom it was taken, is utterly WRONG.
January 31, 2021
The money is also borrowed and printed (QE) which devalues it makes imports, especially for food, more expensive. This has a far more damaging effect on the poor as they are less well disposed to absorb the extra cost.
January 31, 2021
Of course the government can also borrow money, but the markets only loan money to govenments because they know that they will be paid back … with money taken, by force, from the citizenry (who also have to pay the interest on the loan). Now it’s true that governments can just print money or cancel their debts, but doing this has its own drawbacks, as you fully understand.
Ultimately, my point stands: the government’s money is really the British people’s money, and this should be spent ON the British people, not on foreigners. It is wrong and immoral for the government to spend time and money helping foreigners when they should be devoting ALL their efforts and resources on the BRITISH people.
January 31, 2021
That really is the most basic twaddle. Why not educate yourself about how money – at state level – works. There is not a finite amount of money that the government steals from us and spends. If there was the money would swoop round in an infinite loop. I earn it, government takes it, government spends it, someone else earns it, government takes it, I earn it, government takes it – ad infinitum. In which case, all that needs to happen is the whole thing needs to be speeded up so the same money can be used over and over again to build all the bridges we need, the HS2s (we don’t need), pay the 40,000 nurses we need etc.
February 1, 2021
The Government has always taken my money, letters resigning from all sorts of taxes go ignored.
January 31, 2021
It’s hardly appropriate for a member of the UK government to criticise others for not meeting the internationally agreed target of 0.7% given the UK is withdrawing from this itself.
January 31, 2021
Yes. ‘Solidarity’ is essentially a political word. And so heretical to use in Christianity – at least to put it at the heart of Christianity.
Yes, Charity at heart of Christianity – soft and tough love. There is also communion of saints – in union with The Blessed Trinity Who is One God / Three Persons. But this isn’t the same as solidarity.
The Clergy have to stick to theology. And stay out of politics (unless they’re being clear they’re being political – but not merging the political with the spiritual – and the clergy should only venture into politics in extreme situations).
January 31, 2021
Solidarity is a powerful concept, but what if we are being asked to show solidarity with a very powerful entity, the EU, which even Tony Blair now describes as “foolish”?
He’s right, by the way; they are foolish rather than evil, but solidarity with a body that is powerful and foolish, and that rarely seeks advice from others?
That’s solidarity with hubris.
January 31, 2021
I have to ask what has the bible got to do with anything? Man has been roaming the planet for probably 200,000 years and then religion arrived and look at the trouble we’ve had since-muslims, catholics, protestants and so on- what is missing is a good sense of humility understanding and humanity not solidarity- Solidarity is about building friendships to keep others out- in fact we could say that solidarity has more to do with Tory thinking or similiar. Your blog today is off the wall doesn’t make sense- i am reminded of the scene some years ago where the Pope and the Archbishop of Cantebury had a meet and where one wit in the audience remarked that one of them was certainly wearing fancy dress
February 1, 2021
The wit could have remarked ‘If I had known this was a fancy dress party, I’d have come better dressed’.
February 1, 2021
This is where I find the whole Idea of the rich giving to the poor undignified.Through the state as an objective excercise benefits negate that self important impulse the well off patronise others with. I agree though ,it is abused.