The government on 25th November announced a pay pause for the public sector for 2021-22, excluding the NHS. The eight Pay review Boards that make independent recommendations on pay for almost half of the 5.5m workers in the public sector will be guided by this Ministerial policy. The thinking was influenced by the hit to earnings experienced by large sections of the private sector from lockdowns and closures, the cost bulge incurred by the public sector to offset some of the pandemic damage, and the fact that at April 2020 median weekly earnings were at Ā£647 in the public sector compared to Ā£567 in the private sector. The skill, training and ages of public sector employees are not the same as the private sector average which partly explains this divergence. The government said the lowest paid should be exempted from the freeze and get some rise. Local government will need to make its own judgement about what is appropriate and affordable for their own staff.
Some are writing in to say there should be a higher rise for NHS workers than the 1% the government is suggesting as the uplift for the various NHS pay rates. I agree that those NHS staff who responded with so much energy and dedication to the demands of treating CV 19 and handling the dangers of the pandemic deserve more than the nation’s thanks and applause at a time of general pay restraint. The right way to resolve this is for the Pay review Bodies for the NHS and for doctors to review the evidence. The Unions are putting in submissions for higher rises than the government has suggested for the Pay review bodies to consider.
The Pay Review Bodies provide independent advice based on a fuller understanding of current pay, the rewards for different categories of staff and the national context of pay for comparable activities. They will know the details of the junior doctor’s four year settlement in 2019. They will have before them the system of increments for experience that many health staff can enjoy, and the general context of promotion and training opportunities. NHS pay for any individual year on year is not just reliant on a percentage increase in the basic rates. I wish them well in coming to a good judgement on this difficult question. Whilst the government does not have to accept a Pay Body’s recommendations I would expect this government to give very serious consideration to the conclusions of these Pay reviews, given their sensitivity and the public mood. Anyone who feels strongly about this issue can of course write in to the Review Body if they think they have something useful to assist them in coming to their conclusion.
March 8, 2021
Good morning
I wonder how much those on these Pay Review Bodies get paid and what is their wage increase likely to be this year? I bet it is more than 1%. And why so many of them ? Surely there is room for a bit of rationalisation?
All Public Sector employees, and that includes MP’s should have any pay rises linked to inflation. By virtue of their position they are shielded from economic realities and enjoy good benefits and pensions.
There is going to be a smaller Private Sector after this and from which the government can steal.
March 8, 2021
Maybe public sector employee pay should be linked to the country’s prosperity, rather than inflation – at least in part with a prosperity bonus. After all, private sector pay isn’t linked to inflation but directly linked to how well the business is doing.
Make the chancellor’s pay dependent on the country’s finances, so no pension if he leaves office with the economy in a worse state than when he entered office. That would set a good example.
March 8, 2021
@Dave Andrews – That is to realistic, only paying what the Country can afford as opposed to what it can print. You are trying to create a healthy, wealth-creating society that has a future.
March 8, 2021
@Dave Andrews; One needs to be careful banding about words like “prosperity”, this county is very prosperous, it is very wealthy, but much of that wealth is held by not a lot of people – perhaps you meant a measure such as the countries GDP?
March 8, 2021
I totally agree and I believe a personal annual asset wealth tax should be introduced and closure of all overseas tax loops
March 9, 2021
+1
March 8, 2021
Linking pay to inflation would be a disaster in waiting.
March 8, 2021
@oldtimer; Indeed, the UK went down the inflation is X so pay rises should be Y route back in the 1970s, I’m surprised Mark B doesn’t remember…
Ted Heath first tried, it resulted in mass industrial unrest ending in the 3 day-week of Jan 1974, because Heath’s idea was to use smaller than inflation pay increases to reduce inflation, but of course that also asked most people to lower their expected standard of living too [1]. Then of course the following Labour govt was forced by the trade unions to link pay settlements the other way, so as general inflation rose so did wage inflation, with the obvious result! Pay settlements, both public and private sectors, should be merit based.
[1] and it was private sector who first broke with the govts pay policy, not the govt controlled public sector, thus emboldening the militant trades into action as their members real term standard of living fell
March 8, 2021
You have described a measured sensible approach to a complex situation. Had HMG said that there was a pay review in process, reporting in a couple of months, but in the interim here is a bonus 1%, it might have been politically acceptable. However, announcing 1% as if it were all they were going to get, end of story, was crass politically, compounded by emphasising that it was all HMG could afford.
Just to rub in that HMG did not give a monkies out popped tales of the lavish spending on the decor of No 10 or was it 9 or 11, combined with insane amounts on food from the Cotswolds in celebration of I know not what. It was Marie Antoinette handing out seed cake while gorging on caviar. Politically insane. In any case I question the habit of incoming females to Downing Street to get out their paint brush or rush off to their favourite furniture store.
SJR, your government has an embeded problem at No 10. Those in your party still in suits should reach beyond the blonde matt and whisper words of advice in the exposed shellike.
March 8, 2021
Spot on.
However words in ears will not be enough. Replacement of the incumbent is required.
March 8, 2021
Street-cred indeed! Wallpaper cover up and SNP cover up too. Bad timing Gov!
March 9, 2021
Indeed; the most worrying aspect of this is that the culprits are unable to see the error of their ways.
March 8, 2021
Deary me.
Stop the national pay bargaining
Let the hospitals compete for both customers and staff. Let the magic of free pay bargaining do its thing.
This is the obvious that a proper conservative government would be saying.
March 8, 2021
Well said. 90% of NHS staff had nothing to do during the pandemic.
March 8, 2021
Ian Wragg
Well said mate the problem with the NHS is the NHS itself.
Too cumbersome, too many managers, too many clerical support staff and old working practices within, no consideration to performance, efficiency, cost saving and real accountability. There are a lot of people who’s relations were released still with Covid who have a totally different slant on their experiences of our NHS.
March 8, 2021
@turboterrier; It’s not the NHS as a whole, just the “NHS Trusts”. I think you would find it quite hard to find many hospitals that are top-heavy with front-line and their immediate support staff.
March 8, 2021
and the workload seriously diminished during it.
March 8, 2021
@Ian Wragg; Indeed, and most of them working within subcontracted or privatised areas of the NHS… Doh!
March 8, 2021
+1
March 8, 2021
@Iain gill. Its a case of a job of half done by a clueless political class. Health Trusts, was a start, but then rather than them working within budgets and earnings like the rest of the World, they are told, instructed, of what is right for the by a Left Leaning Metro London society. In reality each trust should know their earnings, allowances etc and then manage pay and staff according to each trusts requirements.
Medical and Health standards are one thing but how each area, region and so on gets there should be directed locally.
March 8, 2021
Is it ‘national pay’ or regional pay? How does anyone justify a nurse in Kent getting the same rate as a nurse in Newcastle when the cost of living is a lot less?
March 8, 2021
It isn’t a lot less. In housing, but virtually nothing else, there is a difference. And even in housing, like is not always compared with like.
Also, housing is a permanent investment. If you have a Ā£700,000 house in the South East, you have much more potential wealth than someone in the NE with a house half the cost.
March 8, 2021
+1
March 8, 2021
Dear me. As Richard Tice said today the Tory Party are no longer conservative and should be renamed the Consocialist Party.
March 8, 2021
I am just wondering: for 2020 the CPIH is 0.9%, the CPI 0.7%, the RPI 1.4%. Is the 2.5% increase in state pension the result of āthe magic of free pay bargaining doing its thingā?
March 8, 2021
Apart from my general comment there is one thing you have written which I do not undestand. You say that the median difference in public and private weekly pay is Ā£80.00 and account for it suggesting the public sector are more skillfull, better trained, and I asume older. This might be true of doctors , nurses and other medical professionals, but I do not buy into it for the public sector as a whole. The public sector are paid from the taxes of the productive private section of the economy. They are the debit side of the economy. If the inbalance is as you suggest a selective long term freeze is required for both pay and government contribution to public workers pensions is long overdue.
March 8, 2021
That means they pay more tax back than the private sector, a small morsel of comfort but overall agree totally.
The stranglehold that the public sector has over this country is shocking. Just look at the teachers. How much work have they been doing during lockdown. Letās see comparisons with what private schools did, my evidence from a poll of one is that the private school had a full programme less the sport. I wonder whether the public sector matched that. Ha!
March 8, 2021
+1
March 8, 2021
Paying a little more tax in what is essentially tax in the first place.
It’s a bit8me trying to lift yourself up with your own shoe laces, a fruitless activity.
The private sector creates the wealth for the parasitic public sector who’s job is for many to hinder the productive sector.
As for them being better skilled, we only have to look at Parliament to explode that myth.
March 8, 2021
@Nig l; “the private school had a full programme less the sport”
Might that be due to the majority of their students having decent broadband and IT in home, whilst such children are highly likely to have their own bedroom or available study space with a proper desk, meaning the school can plan a much fuller programme of lessons, not forgetting that the private school might have a better child to teacher ratio, both making distraction-less one-to-one online (personal) tuition more likely.
I have no problem with comparisons but they do need to compare like with like!
March 8, 2021
I do not want comparisons, what I really really want is for the public sector of education to be as good as the best of the private sector. The potential talent is there all it needs is guidance and feeding. The answer is the reintroduction of the Direct Grant Scheme. People on this diary will hate it, but it worked, giving opportunity to those who could intellectually benefit, irrespective of parental wealth. Now the DGS is murdered by idiot politicians, the recipients of my generation fund the education of todays boys to achieve the same result. An education system that refuses to nurture talent irrespective of parental wealth or social standing is pissing on the seedcorn, and therefore doomed to failure.
March 9, 2021
@agricola; Read my comment again! The issue is not the schools but the child’s home situation, all other things being equal, a child having to compete for laptop time, having to share desk (read, kitchen/dining table) space/time, having low or restricted internet bandwidth etc. is never going to compare favourably with a child whose parents can -unaided- afford to send their child to a private school when it comes to home-work or enforced home-schooling. Of course if we had decent affordable telecoms and housing, the latter as used to be regulated by codes such as the Parker Morris Committee, things might be different.
March 8, 2021
This difference is also enlarged hugely by the hugely better pensions the state sector get get, job security and sick pay etc. The pension tax law also discriminate against non defined benefit pension scheme (most private sector ones). Sunak has just increased this discrimination too.
The state sector are paid far more overall & yet so often deliver very little of any value for the public often negative value. Much of what is delivered has negative value. My relative who went into an NHS hospital for a minor stroke, was infected with Covid there, dumped (untested) into a care home to infect others, then taken back to hospital finally tested and died the next day. What value did he get from āthe envy of the worldā NHS?
March 8, 2021
There is a perception that all of the Public Sector have huge salaries. They don’t! Those on the lower echelons of some Departments, DWP etc. are on low salaries. Ā£25K in London, after 20 years work.
One often hears that the average salary in London is Ā£30K. This was quoted on Saturday as the average in Tower Hamlets (said to be one of the most deprived communities in London)
Many public sector people don’t earn anything like that.
March 8, 2021
That’s why they all do NVQ’s for free at the taxpayers expense so they are all ‘qualified’ and can claim more pay.
March 8, 2021
Whatās wrong about wanting to improve oneās qualifications and trying to get a better job?
I would think such a behaviour shows some determination, some character and is also likely (in the medium-term) to improve the potentialities of the country. Is that something one should condemn?
I am really sorry for you if you have never been (either intellectually, socially or physically) able to improve your lot, but do not condemn those who try.
March 9, 2021
hefner I have an nvq and put all my staff through qualifications, how many people do you employ and train?
March 9, 2021
When I was in āactivityā, for 27 years in this country, I was training something like 12 to 18 people per year. Strictly speaking not employed by āmeā (not everybody can be a ācaptain of industryā). Satisfied?
March 9, 2021
Let me clarify, if all nvq’s were free the private sector would be equally as qualified.
March 8, 2021
There is’nt the money, simple as that.
March 8, 2021
Well of course you and your fellow MP’s are very keen on ‘pay review bodies’ Because the one that reviews your pay , never fails to award inflation busting sums.
Hypocrisy doesn’t even begin to describe it.
March 8, 2021
+1
March 8, 2021
….the gold standard our examplars
March 8, 2021
Using rpi for their pensions that haven’t been reformed to match the rest of the public sector. The Lords in significant need of reform and reduction etc.
March 8, 2021
Good article by Robert Colvile on the absurd NHS pay structures. The appalling and inflexible system is yet another reason the organisation is so very poor at delivering a competent service and value. The UK heath systems and NHS have an appalling death per covid case of nearly 3% in international comparisons and one of the highest death rates per million population in the world at 1800+ too. The third worse rate in the world it seems.
In the Sunday Times – Welcome to the weird world of NHS pay, where a 1% rise is a lot more than it seems.
March 8, 2021
Idiotic PR from Boris and Carrie to be spending Ā£200k (the cost of building two new small houses) on their interior decor while trying to get away with 1% for the NHS staff though. Cancel HS2, cull half the state sector and the zero carbon lunacy and we can all earn far more.
Get some real freedom and choice into healthcare and education too to get more money into healthcare and reduce queues and delays.
Perhaps the largest problem with pay is new doctors who start on less than Ā£30k pay and have borrowed up to about Ā£250k to qualify. How on earth can they repay this debt plus 6% interest (Ā£15k), tax and NI and still live on this sum? About 50% understandable do not go on to work for the NHS. Rather a waste of UK trained doctors.
March 8, 2021
and the foreign trained ones get the NHS jobs.
March 8, 2021
Well said Lifelogic. This pathetic wasteful Government are writing off the debts, around 78% of graduates with useless degrees yet newly graduated Doctors are starting their careers with this debt hanging over them. If they had an ounce of common sense which they clearly havenāt, they would write off all Medical degrees on the proviso they work for the NHS for a minimum number of years.
March 8, 2021
Think of the loan borrowed as a graduate tax of 9%. The loan gets written off after 30 years and is charged on income over Ā£19,390 Plan1 and Ā£26,575 Plan2 this is mainly for English students even if other devolved nations’ grads work in England they don’t pay the graduate tax in England.
Isn’t the new doctor’s pay from training year 5 after Masters whilst still training, are they still getting tuition fees added then I thought they weren’t?
March 8, 2021
A-Tracy – At least the extra 9 pence in income tax they pay goes to help pay for graduates in the devolved nations to carry on receiving free or heavily subsidised tuition courtesy of that nice U.K. Government which insists on giving thousands more per head of English taxes to them than they give to the English.
Bizarrely the one health service the U.K. Government and all those U.K. MPs squatting in English seats are responsible for is the English Health Service yet they are more than happy to see English Medics discriminated against in this way. Shows how much 553 self serving U.K. MPs squatting in English seats think of England. And to think John still doesnāt believe England needs its own parliament.
March 8, 2021
It’s been reported that two of the main hospitals where I live in Shrewsbury are still sending patients home that have tested positive for Covid. This is bordering on criminal behaviour.
March 9, 2021
+1
March 8, 2021
Also in the Sunday Times preview of a Sunday Times insight investigation book detailing the Johnson governmentās Covid failures.
Iām assuming this is just the first volume.
March 8, 2021
And Andy the oracle will no doubt enlighten all.
March 8, 2021
The false idea that the private sector creates āwealthā and the public sector consumes it is widely held.
That the private sector creates the money that the government cruelly and inefficiently takes from them to spend and waste.
But the private sector does not create money. Only the government can create money. If the government wants to pay nurses more money and they donāt have enough coming in at any point in time, they can either borrow the money or print it. They have printed loads recently and used it to buy up their own debt. They are always having to create more money because of the population explosion caused by the Tory governmentās policy of high immigration.
Money endlessly circulates around the economy. The government creates it and spends it or lends it into the economy. If the amount the public sector wants or gets is much higher than available in the private sector, everyone will want jobs in the public sector. This is what happens in France where many people have the sole ambition of getting a secure, well paid government job.
If nursing was such a great job, there wouldnāt be so many vacancies. Market forces demand higher wages for them. So the government must divert more money to them or create more money and give it to them.
reply Private sector banks can increase lending to the private sector. The U.K. monetary authorities do not create money for the government to spend.
March 8, 2021
āThe false idea that the private sector creates āwealthā and the public sector consumes it is widely held.ā
That is because this is not at all a false idea in general. Yes parts of the state sector do produce some wealth and value but this is more than outweighed by the output they produce that does far more harm than good.
The state offers appalling value for money. The current furlough system (like other benefits) pays people to not work how is this remotely sensible? They also suffer from mad and very expensive āgroup thinkā religions like catastrophic climate alarmism. Then we have all the corrupt laws and regulations clearly only put into law so as to benefit (well connected) vested interests.
March 8, 2021
@Mike Wilson – the poor down trodden public sector is a Main-stream-Media construct that in turn creates a situation of seemingly more vacancies than elsewhere. The NHS is a collection of around 2.5 million and given that size you can always find bits that don’t quite work to asperations. Then factor in the London is not the whole of the UK, but the media lives there and doesn’t travel so well
March 8, 2021
Private sector banks can create money through loose credit. Hence we had the 2008 crash and the West is trillions in debt. People are able to buy more than they can ever really afford based on notional asset values which would soon disappear if everyone tried to realise them at once – ie sell all their houses at the same time.
March 8, 2021
Reply to Sir John’s reply:’….the UK monetary authorities do not create money….”
This is from the Bank of England’s explanation of Quantitative Easing:
”The aim of QE is simple: by creating this ānewā money, we aim to boost spending and investment in the economy.”
Here is the URL https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/quantitative-easing
REPLY. Yes. It does not say they print the money and give it to the state to spend
March 8, 2021
Pure semantics. They print the money and the Bank of England uses it to buy up already issued government debt. As you have said yourself before, this creates the situation where one part of the government pays interest (on the gilts) to another part of the government. This frees the government up to sell more gilts.
So, money is printed and used to buy up governement debt. It doesn’t matter which way you look at it – the government is printing money.
March 8, 2021
Yes, I too was a bit insulted by that condescending reply. However, the bigger problem is we are setting the stage for rampant asset (house price) inflation. I believe the Governor of the B of E has just today raised this outcome.
March 8, 2021
”if nursing was such a great job”
I still can’t understand why they need an academic degree ???
March 8, 2021
I think you are confusing “Money” with “Wealth” Mike.
The Bank can certainly print money but it cannot create wealth – and if they go on printing more of it – then this will become all too obvious.
March 8, 2021
@IanT
Not at all. Depends how you define wealth, of course. A definition many would accept is ‘how much stuff you have’. If you own your own house, have a nice car etc. – are you wealthy? Are you in possession of wealth?
How do you measure this sort of wealth? By how much money you would get if you sold it.
If the government WANTED to, they could, for example, print 10 billion and use it to buy up secondary debt. They could then borrow 10 billion and give the nurses the pay rise. Net difference as far as the government is concerned – absolutely nothing. In fact, given gilt yields these days, they might even save money.
March 9, 2021
And if the Government continued printing money – and gave the Nurses a large pay rise – but inflation went through the roof – would those Nurses be any better off in real terms Mike?
They might have more “money” but would they be “wealthier” – that’s the difference.
March 8, 2021
Let us not be influenced by London here.
As public sector pay is decided nationally those good people working in the public sector outside London receive very attractive salaries which give the pubic sector recruiting advantages in those areas.
With private sector salaries dropping or remaining steady as a result of draconian lockdown measures it would give public sector roles even more of an advantage in those locales if there was an increase, merited by circumstances or not (certainly not for home working back office NHS staff).
I suggest that London is taken out of the national pay deal and those working in London are given a pay rise. Those elsewhere do not need one and probably do not need one for some time as they are already “rich” (certainly by the living standards that make a Ā£50K earner in London “rich”).
Alternatively build houses for NHS workers to buy at much cheaper rates in London that must be sold at the same discount on market rates when sold and can only be sold to other NHS workers.*
*Substitute for “Key workers” to include shop workers and bus driver if so inclined.
March 8, 2021
Hospitals used to have accommodation for nurses and houses for doctors, matrons and caretaking staff.
They also had kitchens and subsidised canteens. ( And churches/chapels come to that).
Where has all that gone?
Bulldozed for new housing and centralised in the bogus name of āefficiencyā.
Anyway, as far as I can make out, there was some unfathomable three year pay review from 2018 on wards that looks quite generous.
If the nurses etc want to complain they should focus on the larger salaries paid to admin. who obviously have no scooby!
March 8, 2021
Are you suggesting that nurses drive Subura Imprezas?
March 8, 2021
The term ākey workerā has been sadly abused ā¦.to include almost every profession
March 8, 2021
@Glen Cullen
Does the term include MPs? How about the people who sit in the House of Lords?
March 8, 2021
No matter how hard I think about it I just can’t imagine the House of Lords members as being Key Workers
March 9, 2021
@glen cullen
But they must be. They get paid Ā£350 just for putting their head around the door. Who would pay them that if they weren’t extremely ‘key’.
March 8, 2021
And sadly every job is now a ‘profession’. The term used to only include clerical, medical and legal. Now, apparently, bus driving is a profession.
March 8, 2021
They do have these new properties available NS, key workers do go to the top of the list and can buy a share in a home, increasing their share as their grades increase and take full profit on the sale.
March 8, 2021
Your last two paragraphs suggest a Quaker like attitude to the housing of their workers. I can see a single organisation doing it, perhaps the relevent trade unions might consider it, not so easy to cover all essential workers collectively this way. It would be difficult for the NHS, Police or Fire Service to finance as they are not profit making, as Cadbury were for instance. The final alternative is for the government to become builders and landlords in London. The MOD do it all over the UK, so why not other departments. A thought, with home working there is going to be a lot of government vacant office space. Turn it or the space into accommodation.
March 8, 2021
@agricola
Aaaarrrggghhh! Still with the mad idea that public sector organisations are not profit making and, therefore, consume the wealth generated by the private sector. It is a matter of choice, nothing to do with profit. If the government wanted to provide the police, nurses etc. with accommodation it could and, I dare say, still does. Certainly Hillingdon Hospital used to have nurses accommodation – which they occupied while they did their 3 years’ training. Mind you, these days, they need a bloody degree!!!!! When I was a kid, my mate’s dad was a copper. They lived in a ‘police house’ – a 3 bed semi owned by the police which they rented.
If the public sector does not make a profit, why are they ever allowed anything? Computers, carpets, heating – they deserve none of it if they don’t make a ‘profit’.
March 8, 2021
I think rents are falling in London. Perhaps Londoners should take a pay cut?
March 8, 2021
@Mark
Nah. Landlords should take the haircut.
March 8, 2021
The performance of the NHS as a whole has been mediocre during the pandemic – they’re lucky to be getting an above-inflation increase of 1% at all. One-off bonuses to ICU and front-line Covid staff only would seem the best approach.
Yesterday I was caught up in a protest march about this issue. About 200 people, chanting, no attempt at any social distancing, and not a mask in sight. If NHS staff can’t be bothered to “protect our NHS” why should I bother ?
March 8, 2021
The ‘pandemic damage’, SJR??? I think you mean the lockdown damage. Your party in government took those decisions, a virus didn’t. You rightly called out those disproportionate measures at the time, and warned of the consequences. Verbal sleight-of-hand now will not rescue those responsible.
March 8, 2021
Sir John
A genuine out of interest Question
the fact that at April 2020 median weekly earnings were at Ā£647 in the public sector compared to Ā£567 in the private sector
Is what is called weekly earnings the full remuneration or just the weekly disposable pay packet amount? This query is prompted by the situation that some appear to see their pension as a right, therefore not pay and not part of the reward, while others only receive a pension based on their contributions out of their taxable pay.
This disparity creates a massive distortion in perceived reward. Then it begs the question that should not all pay be in terms of the ‘whole remuneration’ package – not just the weekly disposable element.
March 8, 2021
@Ian@Barkham
That is a very interesting question. Because, as well as, by most private sector standards, a very generous contribution from the employer to their pension, state employees also enjoy very generous sick pay and paid leave when sick, training courses virtually on demand and generous holidays.
I was self employed for most of my life. I really cannot think of one day off sick – and I have only taken one week’s holiday a year for much of my working life.
@Andy – life is now a permanent holiday. I would like to thank you personally for your very generous contribution to my, and my wife’s, state pension. We are now living the dream. Merci.
March 8, 2021
Yes – NHS staff deserve special consideration – they feel unappreciated for sure.
The budget did nothing to help them or the rest of the people who kept the economy and basic services operating. Freezing tax allowance was a kick in the teeth when a lot of public sector workers have pay rises written into their contract.
It is past time that individual performance was ignored in the public sector – All should be assessed annually on their achievements, and not guaranteed a rise where they fail to do their best.
This is what private sector employees have to live with.
We are likely to see massive increases from councils, with the annual increase from utilities and insurance companies, ETC ETC, causing more poverty..
WHY DIDN’T THE CHANCELLOR DO SOMETHING ABOUT EXCESS PROFITS FROM THESE UNJUSTIFIED INCREASES, WHICH OFTEN EXCEED 10%
March 8, 2021
The biggest problem for the NHS in particular is that we have a lot of enthusiastic dedicated people managed day-to-day by those that shouldn’t be there and are just focused on empire building not delivery.
March 8, 2021
If there is a short fall in the countries coffers then the govt needs to cut its own cloth to fit, not try to cut other peoples cloth to fit. If for example HS2, a vanity (and a post Covid) White Elephant project was to be immediately cancelled and the realistically likely final budget put to one side to fund expected or previously agreed public sector workers what sort of percentage wage increase would that fund? Nor is it just health workers, many other public sector workers have also worked through out the pandemic at great personal risk, Police, Fire and Rescue, Teachers, even some council operatives.
How to rebuild that “Red Wall” … simple, the Govt revert to type, the Tory party of old. Trouble is I strongly suspect the voters will not buy the excuses this time and, talking of elephants, will have elephants style memories come the next general election.
March 8, 2021
“I agree that those NHS staff who responded with so much energy and dedication to the demands of treating CV 19 and handling the dangers of the pandemic deserve more than the nationās thanks and applause at a time of general pay restraint”
Well said, Sir John. Hopefully, the government will execute another of its famous “U” turns over this latest PR blunder
I held my nose – and sat through Hancock’s nauseous justification for his failure to secure an honourable pay settlement for the nurses at the press conference the other night. It is clearly time for a spring cabinet re-shuffle.
March 8, 2021
@Sakara Gold; “It is clearly time for a spring cabinet re-shuffle.”
Yes indeed, but when the music coming out of the Barrel organ is out of tune, if not playing backwards, it is for the organ grinder to stop, not those whose job is to dance to the music! Hancock is not to blame for this fiscal blunder, nor I suspect the PM…
March 8, 2021
Why does our country have eight pay review boards to determine public sector pay?
Why are people heroes for doing their job?
Why should any increase in public sector pay, and the resulting pension obligation, be more than the official rate of inflation (excluding increases individually recognised by genuine merit-based promotion)?
March 8, 2021
.From John Redwood July 2017
“According to the official sites Ā£22,128 a year. This rises to Ā£28,746 a year over a seven year period, with increments of 4% in all but the first year when it is a 2.5% increase. In inner London the sums are Ā£26,553 rising to Ā£34,495. In outer London the nurse receives 15% more than the national scale. The nurse would also receive whatever general pay award there was on top of the annual increment.
The site says ā Staff will normally progress to the next paypoint annually until they reach the top of the pay band.āIf a nurse becomes a senior nurse or a specialist nurse the pay scale then rises further, up to Ā£35,577, or Ā£42,692 in London”
.That was in 2017 ā and we have not mentioned the gold plated pensions which are almost priceless , the job security and training. The public mood is easy to misjudge . You may be grateful when people do their job well ,under difficult circumstance,s but that does not mean we wish to reward the job more than seems reasonable of fair.
It seems to me they are already generously rewarded, although updating this information would be useful , perhaps Sir John would oblige.
March 8, 2021
Your local nurse practitioner, at your GP’s surgery, is on 44k if they have 8 years under their belt.
March 8, 2021
The average salary of a qualified and certificated welder is Ā£30kā¦.and thatās 40hrs per week of blood sweat and hard work (no tears just hard work ā and certainly no tiktok dancing ā no mobiles allowed on shop floor)
March 8, 2021
I know quite a few NHS staff and they say they’ve never been quieter than during this pandemic. Not all were involved in the CV-19 response – in fact very few were.
The country has beggared itself and very many people in the private sector (which is the only part of the economy which pays for the NHS) have lost their jobs to “save the NHS”.
Most of us have given up our way of life to “save the NHS”.
Being in the NHS is now probably the only secure work there is. Jobs in the NHS are now highly coveted – not least because it is idolised in an almost soviet way – and people in the private sector (and much of the public sector) stare into the abyss and the thought of a 1% pay rise would be heavenly to them.
A 1% pay rise is irregular compared to the genuine hardships being experienced throughout the land and should be accepted gratefully as we cannot really afford this for our biggest national employer, especially as our people are to experience depression style poverty soon, if not already.
The army fight and die in wars. They are awarded medals and not pay rises and are satisfied with that.
Ordinarily I would support pay rises for the NHS but these are not ordinary times. And the idiotic TikTok videos as my friends and local businesses were going bust did not help.
“Put your feet up, stay at home, save the NHS, we’re in charge”
What planet were these people on ? Clever they may be but they have no idea of how the money they are paid gets made and how difficult that is.
March 8, 2021
Why is everyone complaining about Nurses pay when Junior Doctors who work longer hours with more responsibility are paid just as poorly. And of course NHS staff in England will see any pay rise disappear in the parking charges this Government is going to slap back on them when the virus is over, charges free as usual elsewhere in the UK. 1% is an insult after all they have done.We canāt afford it is the response from a wasteful Government.
Except for key workers itās not just public sector pay which needs to be looked at but the whole public sector full stop. The number employed by the state needs to be reduced and that includes politicians. Public sector pensions should be subject to the markets just like those in the private sector and no more tax payer guaranteed pensions. Why should the private sector pay to provide higher pensions for others than they get themselves?
Starting salaries of Nurses and Junior Doctors is around Ā£24-25K and itās an insult when there are so many working in NHS Admin on 6 figure salaries. An MPs start salary has gone up from Ā£65,738 in 2010 to Ā£81,932 from April, 2020. Plus they can earn another Ā£16-17K for heading a committee. As usual, its one rule for our self serving MPs and another for everyone else including NHS workers.
As with so many things, this āConservativeā (????) Government is totally out of touch with reality or what passes as fairness. They havenāt got a clue.
March 8, 2021
Hear hear
March 8, 2021
Junior doctors on the 2016 contract MA
Year 1 – Ā£28,243
Year 2 – Ā£32,691
Speciality Core +
So no quite as bad as you suggest
March 8, 2021
Those NHS staff who worked exceptionally long hours with covid could be granted a one-off bonus in recognition but I don’t think the entire payroll should be given a special annual rise. They should be treated like the rest of the publuc sector, all of whom are still in a job anyway.
March 8, 2021
Oh how I Love the word key workers.
In a fully developed society everyone plays a key part in its running, some have a greater effect than others if they stop working, but everyone plays a part.
Just imagine a world without plumbers or electricians, lorry, bus, coach and train drivers, signalmen, track repairs, garage repair mechanics, supermarket staff and other shop owners, operators of sewerage plants, water works, and yes Doctors, nurses, teachers, firefighters and cleaners
Are all of the above and many more all special cases ?
OOPs left out politicians, tax collectors, purchasing professionals and salespeople (politically correct term)
March 8, 2021
If you want to reward Hospital staff., then the simple solution would be to pay the FRONT LINE Medics, nurses, and support staff only, a one off lump sum, then it does not have any knock on effect in future years on pay scales etc. etc.
One again we have diabolical self harming PR put out by the Conservative Party.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, thes is more like self amputation of a leg.
March 8, 2021
Given the existence of the pay review body and the neede to wait to hear what it has to say, the announcement of a 1% pay rise limit at this stage was completely crass and has made a settlement in excess of 1% more or less inevitable. Interesting how cleverness and common sense often do not go together.
March 8, 2021
I assume that this payrise includes all members of the NHS: the vast numbers of clerical and administrative workers, the GPS etc. I wouldnāt mind so much those front-line workers getting a decent rise, but, there may of course be exceptions, I donāt really think, for example, that GPS deserve a payrise. It has been, and still is, almost impossible to get into a GP surgery these days. Donāt they say that only 43% of the total NHS workforce are front-line staff.
March 8, 2021
Qubus – google check – Statista: “In 2020 there were approx 669.6 thousand nurses in the UK, a large increase from 2010 when there were 541 thousand (23.67% more).
Kingsfund March 2019 – Workforce 1,093,638: 34,556 Managers, 112,031 Drs, 311,380 qualified nursing staff (which suggests over 635 thousand others).
Yesterday, I read on here that there were 40,000 nursing vacancies which is around 35 vacancies per hospital not sure if that is still the case.
March 8, 2021
One day later we have TV journalists expressing incredulity that the potential colour of Harry and Megans son was a speculation of some members of the royal household. Lets cut to the chase. There was much of such talk and associated joke illustrations on the internet. After the excitement of the marriage a number of public TV and press figures and newspapers have been less than charitable about the couple. Overlooking that Harry, unlike them, had put his life on the line in the service of his country. However that such a subject circulated in the household is unacceptable. The only course of action is a private enquiry of all members of the household, identification of those guilty of such racist views, such that they were expressed within the hearing of Megan and their dismissal.
The UK is not a particularly racist country, something which amazed black american servicemen when they landed here in 1942, coming from a rampantly racist and segregated USA. I could not imagine the Queen holding such views which run in direct conflict with the way she has conducted her life.
Ironically and hopefully this could lead to a much more generous and intelligent attitude towards Harry , Megan and their children than the precipitate ostrasization that the royal household triggered. It questions the judgement of those who administer the royal household. Personally I would like to see Harry able to return to his support of the military, and able to contribute to the adhesion of the Anglosphere/Commonwealth.
March 8, 2021
Why didnt Harry challenge this conversation? He isn’t a shrinking violet. He could have instigated action himself. Why are these two on National television washing their dirty linen? It seems to me the hypocrisy they have shown is immense. They want their privacy, yet are all over social media most days like a rash. Signing up to media giants for millions. Buying a multi million pound mansion yet whining that his Father cut him off! What did he expect more free lunches? It’s all about promoting their brand at the expense of the Royal family.
March 8, 2021
The public sector pay pause should have included the NHS and MPsā¦..weāre all in it together
March 8, 2021
The Diary item today reminds me of a BBC Daily Politics programme in May 2018 where a well -known economist who advises governments and organisations, write books and is head of a research group said that because the NHS employs so many people it pays for itself from the taxes they pay.
The programme presenter did not challenge this statement.
March 8, 2021
OMG.
March 8, 2021
The cost of our public sector and how it is managed and financed is a vast subject.
However, so far as the NHS is concerned ever since I can remember, it has been a bottomless pit into which successive governments have thrown our money in order to buy our votes. Maybe it should now be restructured so that front line workers can be better supported and the inefficient NHS bureaucracy can be sorted out once and for all ?
The Royal College of Nursing is apparently looking for a 12.5% increase for its members. It may have put forward this figure in the expectation of confrontation. There is even a Parliamentary petition on the subject. I might have more sympathy had they asked for a flat rate increase of (say) Ā£1,000 per annum ā pro rata for part time staff ā so that lower earners receive proportionately more.
Having said this, the Spectator published a view on the subject. Part of the article is behind a pay wall but the opening paragraphs are interesting. With our hostās permission, the link is:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-nhs-workers-shouldn-t-get-a-pay-rise
March 8, 2021
āI agree that those NHS staff who responded with so much energy and dedication to the demands of treating CV 19 and handling the dangers of the pandemic deserve more than the nationās thanks and applause at a time of general pay restraint.ā
So is the proposed 1% pay rise for those who were at the front line treating CV19 patients or will it be applied to all NHS staff regardless?
March 8, 2021
I think a blanket pay rise for all NHS staff is ridiculous. Some were heroic during the pandemic and some had very little to do, some by choice and some through no choice.
Good work, dedication , productivity and good results should be rewarded but that doesn’t mean ALL NHS workers.
March 8, 2021
We are all staying at home to protect the NHS. That in itself is a vast cost – for many individually as well as for the nation as a whole. Many nurses are currently undoubtedly working very long hours (overtime pay?) the answer is to either vastly expand the NHS or take measures (NPIs or Vaccinate the population) to reduce their workload. Paying existing staff in the NHS a lot more is not going to reduce the pressure they are under.
Having worked in education I know that there has always been a high demand for courses leading to nursing (and the current situation has certainly not reduced that demand). The fact that nurses trained in other countries seem to want to come here would suggest the pay rates cannot be too far out.
March 8, 2021
PfL – Nursing Times “In normal times, staff in pay bands 1 to 7 are eligible for overtime payments of a rate of time-andāa-half, or they may request to take time they are owed off in lieu”
During covid – “As such, the staff council has reached an agreement on a new, temporary overtime guiding framework for NHS trusts. As part of this, trusts are urged to ensure they pay staff band 1-7 for any overtime as usually recommended, but also to extend the offer to those in bands 8-9.”
Nurses from other Countries are tempted in and it makes me wonder if the perks are available to newly qualified British nurses moving around the UK. See http://www.medacs.com.
If a nurse chooses to work on bank holidays and Sundays, they will be paid 60 per cent more, while those who opt to work nights and Saturdays will be paid 30 per cent more. Once you have gained six monthsā experience within the NHS you will also have the option to register with a recruitment agency to gain new experiences and extra money.
March 8, 2021
So-Called Governments keep on creating un-accountable monolithic domains, empires and sects that by their very nature set out to protect those at the top before they ever look at the task the taxpayer is paying them to do.
Anyone wanting, requiring and demanding that the taxpayer should pay for their existence with out choice should always be held to directly held to account and open to full scrutiny by the taxpayer
March 8, 2021
We’ll be able to save a fortune by scrapping the Monarchy once the Queen passes. No empire, no Kingdom, loss of law and order, disunity, loss of respect for the family itself… what’s the point except sentimentalism ?
Post Covid there probably won’t even be royalty tourism.
The federalists and Blairists have also done their bit too.
March 8, 2021
Yes it’s about time all of this royalty business was downsized
March 8, 2021
It doesnāt matter if you give the public sector a pay freeze as they will just circumvent it by regrading their staff. Just compare the numbers of staff in each grade now to twenty or thirty years ago. Iāve worked closely with the public sector and this practice has accelerated massively over the years.
The public sector has the highest level of sick leave for any industry. This needs to be tackled and clamped down on. We need to get away from thinking that all NHS staff are angels that deserve to be paid more money than others. It is an outdated institution that needs radical reform.
March 8, 2021
The problem with funding the NHS in its present form is that pelting it with money without reform only encourages wasteful practices. The finance for other public services has to be restricted to allow for increases to the NHS within the resources available. This is not a fair or sustainable way to allocate taxpayers’ money.
March 8, 2021
I hear a rumour that substantial amounts have been paid to nurses for overtime working. Does anyone know if this is so, and, if so, can it be quantified?
March 8, 2021
Youāve got to change your PPE every time you leave the ward for a coffee, meal or meetingsā¦all takes time, and thatās also why there so exhausted
March 8, 2021
We know that the productivity of NHS workers has been hugely variable during the pandemic. Some with time on their hands to record Tik Tok videos, others rushed off their feet in intensive care wards. If there is any case for pay increases it must be justified by a payback in higher productivity that gives taxpayers a reduced cost of the service provided. There is scope for that, given the huge backlog in non virus cases needing treatment. Let them be rewarded for clearing the backlog.
Incidentally, presumably a side effect of the budget will be more doctors taking early retirement because of pension limitations. A stupidity that should have been addressed.
March 8, 2021
Mark, why should this just be reversed for Doctors alone? Is it a good thing for other professions to have their pensions limited? People are expected now to draw salary instead to spend not save. Other than final salary pensioners of course! Whose pot size seems never to get assessed.
March 8, 2021
+1
March 8, 2021
I have nothing but contempt for this Stalinist approach to pay, where the government – or a government quango – ‘decides’ what the right pay level is. There is only ONE way in wich pay should be decided, and that is the amount you need to offer to recruit and retain the right number of people with the right skill-level.
In other words, pay levels should be market-led. That is the only logical, sensible and infallible approach. Some pay levels in the lower grades of the public service could even be cut, as I think there is no shortage of suitably-skilled applicants. As for nurses, my undertanding is that recruitment is UP, so clearly the pay being offered is more than enough to recruit and retain the staff we need. And in view of all the hospital-acquired Covid 19 infections, spare me the plaudits for the NHS; I do NOT think they did a good job at all.
March 8, 2021
A pay rise? For doing the jobs they are hired to do?
But but but …during a pandemic!
And all those shop workers, factory workers, warehouse workers, transport drivers, water, gas, electricity, telecomms, internet, police, fire,etc…
They all carried on working too.
The nurses should consider that they still have jobs. Lucky lot. There’s plenty that now don’t.
The nurses should be grateful for still getting a salary, and if the plague was as bad as we were constantly being told, they should also be thankful for surviving it. Or wasn’t it so bad then?
March 8, 2021
Totally Agree…..we need MPs fighting for the private sector workers
March 8, 2021
A friend has decided to sleep with an NHS provided mask on to deal with his obesity induced sleep apnoea. He has chosen to carry on over eating rather than lose the weight as suggested by his doctor and prefers to wear an oxygen mask at night. Another friend is popping pills for is obesity induced type 2 diabetes and has also chosen to carry on over eating rather than lose weight as suggested by his doctor – he prefers to pop pills than deal with the real problem.
Anecdotal evidence maybe but use your own eyes and listen to the NHS when it admits itself that it has been dealing with an obesity crisis. The WHO (not that we should listen) and various other organisations say that CV-19 is a wake up call for the obesity crisis in the West.
Indeed the obesity crisis and the NHS may well have just bankrupted us.
Isn’t a bit of tough love needed ?
“No. You’re not having treatment. You must feel the unpleasant natural reaction to obesity and that will incentivise you to lose weight. It will also help to save the NHS and there will be more money for nurses’ pay rises. Be a hero.”
Also
Pay by weight to fly. You take up two seats you pay for two seats. Your clothes take up more cloth you pay for more cloth and don’t expect those of ordinary sizes to subsidise you with a mark-up on their clothes.
No more magazines with obese people and “This is healthy” on the cover and no more “Fit and healthy young person dies of CV-19” when they are clearly unhealthily overweight from the picture. Political correctness is literally condemning people to death in this pandemic and draining our health services of resources for illnesses which could have been avoided through healthier habits.
March 8, 2021
Hear hear. Let’s hear the word fat again.
March 8, 2021
I understand that the starting pay for a qualified nurse is about Ā£25,000 pa. As a retired couple who were self employed throughout their working lives but had to retire early due to ill health we would love to be on Ā£25,000 !!!!!!
March 8, 2021
+1
March 8, 2021
The NHS is a mess. Why have large numbers of British applicants to the Nursing profession been turned down recently in favour of foreign nurses and why are such a high proportion of medics foreign? Why is the NHS so dependent on freelance medical staff employed on a per shift basis who will not know the layout of the hospital never mind patient histories and may not be up to scratch? Why does the NHS have to pay out such huge sums for medical negligence? All this smacks of poor training policies, poor recruitment policies and poor promotion policies which should be based on competence and experience and nothing else.
Why are there so many layers of administrative management in the NHS? The NHS is the fifth largest employer in the world which is extraordinary considering that we a medium sized country. There is no reason at all why main hospitals should not be self-governing entities as not-for-profit enterprises operating local market pay and conditions with the objective that all their medical staff are trained here and are permanent.
Obviously, there will need to be a big shake-up on the training of doctors and nurses. People who have the appropriate A levels and performance in an aptitude test which is now necessary because too many people get top grades as a consequence of grade inflation.
Training should be subsidised by the taxpayer for successful candidates on the basis of scholarships for those of exceptional quality with a subsequent legal obligation to practice here as medical professionals for all who have been trained here. The system by which our qualified doctors emigrate to Commonwealth countries to be replaced by others from outside Europe is not appropriate for a first world country and does not deliver first world health care.
March 8, 2021
As Sir John pointed out there are many opportunities within the NHS for staff to increase their pay via grade increments, promotions or a move to other roles. The NHS are happy to train employees when they choose another opportunity. I know many people who work in various roles and most have been the beneficiary of all of the above routes to better rewards. I have no issue with this and good luck to them, however I have no doubt the unions will use the Covid situation to game public opinion in order to have a larger increase. The public finances will be under duress, and the tax take down due to the job losses in the private sector, but the higher NHS salaries and benefits they enjoy will not be taken into account by the media.
March 8, 2021
”opportunities within the NHS for staff to increase their pay via grade increments”
They’re not opportunities these are automative annual increaments
March 8, 2021
I have witnessed empty hospitals with bunches of staff milling around with nothing to do. On one occasion I had to ask two medics to let me through the exit as they were blocking it with a bike whilst they stood chatting. Another a group of them filled a 12ft wide passage whilst I pinned myself to the wall. Outpatient Clinics cancelled. Canāt see a doctor. Everyone I know has an NHS horror story. Freebies given by shops, free parking, first in vaccine queue. Plenty of perks and appreciation given. Extra thanks to those actually dealing with Covid but donāt forget one in five infections occurred in hospitals. Why did retired, obese health workers return when they knew as I a lay person knew that those were very high risk. Take the one percent and be grateful. Many lost their jobs and many others worked front line all the way through. Medics have just had a 3-year deal giving some on lower pay 12%. We are in Ā£2 Trillion debt for gods sake!
March 8, 2021
Well said Jim. Totally agree with every word. Of course we all know with the big fat cat unions behind them they will win with blackmail tactics. It’s sickening when the country is in such a state and so many are struggling after losing jobs and businesses.
March 8, 2021
The thorny subject of public sector pensions always comes up when making comparisons are to be made between private and public sector wages.
I believe that pay for the public sector should be made on the following basis :
1. The overall level of remuneration should be broadly comparable to the private sector but the realistic cost of the pension scheme available to the employees of the state needs to be fully factored into the comparison.
2. Adjustments downwards should also be made to reflect better employment conditions. That is, better holidays, more generous sick pay, lower hours worked and much better job security in the state sector.
3. Public sector pay must be regionalised. For example, it is obscene that a Head Teacher and his/her staff in rural Wales are paid the same as those in the Home Counties where living costs are very much higher. Those staff in rural Wales are going to be the highest-earning people in the area. This is both devisive and unnecessary.
4. The same level of efficiency needs to be applied to public sector jobs as those in the private sector. I have recently had dealings with various areas of our local council including planning. The service levels are appalling, falling far below the standards specified on the central planning website. An application I submitted on 7th January has not even made it through administration, yet ! The excuse, as ever, is Covid. What difference that makes to a planning officer is a mystery to me.
March 8, 2021
The NHS has been a star performer throughout this period. I recently had a hernia and was told bluntly by the NHS they could not offer me a date for treatment. So, I paid to have the operation privately. God bless the NHS. Always there when you need them.
Can I have the money paid over to me that I had to pay for the operation? I went to the hospital as an NHS patient but, because they could not treat me, I became a private patient. Oddly, they could then treat me. Why couldn’t they treat me when the NHS was paying, but, if I paid, they suddenly could treat me.
March 8, 2021
Sir John, Off Topic from our wonderfully informed main-stream-media, “Wokingham in Surrey named healthiest place in England – what’s its secret?”
Just make sure you get the right train home!
March 8, 2021
There is enough money in the NHS but most of it is spread around Management pen pushers, paper clip counters, Assistants to assistants and diary secretaries etc.
So much waste and no accountability and unfortunately it is ALWAYS used as a vote winner. Time for change people.
And as someone commented earlier, why the need for a nurse to have a degree and find it beneath them to change a bed pan or bed bath someone.
March 8, 2021
I would like to see my salary return to its pre-covid level (a pay rise is probably not on the cards for 2020 or 2021). But until “non-essential” retail opens up again that seems unlikely, and all I have to hang onto is the probability that the business I work for will survive this elongated terror, and I will still have a job at the end of it. But during these difficult times my job has not become any less demanding. I work in a finance department, where the workload has been if anything greater than normal.
And whilst this carries on I still have to put food on the table for my children. I still have to pay household bills, including the eye watering “green” subsidies that form a not too subtly hidden chunk of those bills. I still have to pay the mortgage, and because there was a period when I had to accept a covid payment holiday, I find those payments increased.
I do not see examples of public sector workers suffering either temporary pay cuts or any real restraint on pay rises. Many people forget that most public sector employees enjoy both good pensions, and jobs on pay grades, with annual increments for staying in post, in addition to any nationally secured pay increases.
Its a bit different out in the real world!
March 9, 2021
The NHS is a bastion of inefficiency. In my recent experience IT systems are unfit for purpose and, whilst there are many excellent staff, too many are living in the comfort zone. On my last visit (before the virus) they even sent my notes to the wrong GP and I ended up delivering them in person.
On a previous visit to a seriously ill relative nurses were busy chatting in the staff room whilst patients were neglected. Time that they were returned to desks on the wards.
The praise heaped upon the NHS is justified in some cases but not in many others. Only a ground up reform will give us the service we need at reasonable cost.
March 10, 2021
The Government seems to be unwilling to admit that a recession is coming, with unemployment exerting down pressure on remuneration across the piece. That would explain a reduction from 2.1% to 1% in the increase it needs (and can afford) to offer to nurses.