Rt Hon Sir John Redwood MP (Wokingham) (Con): Can the Chief Secretary explain why the bank is investing in a very expensive cable electricity link between the United Kingdom and Germany, given that we are in the same time zone and have similar weather, and both countries are chronically short of electricity capacity? It does not sound like a good idea to me.
80 Comments
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November 2, 2022
Here’s a question. You’ve got a minister here statings its an investment.
Can you do follow ups where you ask them for the accounts for the investment?
ie. Money borrowed, interest on money against income received etc, mark to market for the assets.
ie. Income and expense accounts, plus the balance sheet.
Seems perfectly reasonable that government publishes accounts for the investments, so plebs like us know what you’re up to.
My bet however, is that there will be no accounts, because its not an investment, its a net liability.
November 3, 2022
JR,
I read this to be every EU country must help Germany, it is the powerhouse of the EU. What the failure to answer means is that the UK has not properly left the EU and is still grovelling to show the UK will return to the fold. The govt does not want the issue in the public domain. Let us hope Farage makes a huge issue of it like your deceptive mass immigration policy.
Explain why your party and govt has betrayed the nation and largest mandate to do something, namely leave EU?
November 3, 2022
JR,
Sell out agreement means Energy directly linked to fishing in our waters! So your minister knows he is tightening the grip of the EU around the UK throat. If he does know then he is both stupid and incompetent. Energy independence is vital for an indecent sovereign nation. We voted Brexit.
November 2, 2022
Very pertinent question indeed!
November 2, 2022
Typical ministerial response, in effect saying he had no idea. Better invest in a cable from a Morrocan solar facility to the UK.
See if he knows where we are up to with RR modular reactors.
November 3, 2022
Better to have cables to Iceland , linking to 24/7 geothermal resource and other wind resource in the area.
November 2, 2022
John Glen – I will not be able to comment etc. Translation ‘ I don’t have a clue, only Rishi can tell you why I have my job. Someone else can answer. In future can you please ask easier questions and not confuse me’.
November 2, 2022
we watch with interest.
November 2, 2022
How interesting! Why is the Bank doing this? Please pursue this, Sir John, until you find out the reasoning behind it. As a Conservative member, I note that our new PM has now cancelled fracking as a source of energy & is now going to COP27. So he has already shown he is a weak PM who has no real convictions. A new PM brings hope that we will have a new start based on common sense & decisions that are right for the UK, so RS has already failed. Net Zero is complete nonsense & should be avoided like the plague, fracking is essential for us to have energy security & reduce the cost of energy for the UK. There is no way our new PM is tough enough to face up to the cost of government, the root cause of our problems, to stop illegal immigration & sort out the NI protocol. It seems our government & most MPs are living in a dream world completely divorced from the concerns of the people of the UK, whether conservative voters or not.
November 2, 2022
It’s a meteorological fact that on the synoptic scale Germany and the UK are quite likely to have radically different weather at the same time.
In winter we may well have an Atlantic storm while Germany has calm freezing conditions for instance.
There is, therefore, every reason for such a cable.
November 3, 2022
NLH I’d be interested in your response to Mark below.
What is the advantage to the UK?
How much low-cost energy are you expecting to import from this cable?
November 3, 2022
Lots of not green German dirty brown coal power as well.
November 3, 2022
It helps to look at data. This table shows that German wind is highly correlated with UK wind, at 59% positive coefficient.
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/6yqhP/2/
The interconnector would only begin to make sense if Germany has an exportable surplus of dispatchable power to back up for when the wind doesn’t blow, but it would be cheaper to build the power stations in the UK rather than building them in Germany and adding an expensive interconnector to deliver the power. We did that already when Kingsnorth D was cancelled in favour of Britned plus coal fired power at Rotterdam. As it is, Germany is a net importer when the wind doesn’t blow, driving up prices across Europe as it bids for supply.
November 5, 2022
These correlations of daily winds only give part of a story. What about winds on a 3-hour or 1-hour basis? Or sorting out by wind strength in two different areas as that information is likely to be more relevant: low wind (15 m/s), as situations of low and high winds will not give any production in one given area whereas the intermediate wind speed in another area might. Your table is too crude to be really useful. Furthermore taking as unit of comparison an entire country might in itself be too big a unit. Wind speed in Scotland might be adequate for energy production whereas it might be too low/high in southern parts of England.
Further research is required, donât you think?
November 3, 2022
I was also surprised by Sir Johnâs meteorological comment. I would have expected a bit more knowledge of European meteorology from him given that in his own constituency there is one of the major operational meteorological centres on Earth. I am wondering whether he has ever visited it, possibly as an individual during one of its regular open days, particularly the big ones for its 25th (in 2000) or 40th anniversary (in 2015). Over his 35 years as the local MP he could have had numerous opportunities given that ECMWF started producing forecasts in the 1980s. Moreover as the local MP I guess he would just have to ask to get a dedicated and extended guided tour.
But perhaps he might find âsaferâ for him to collect his âenvironmentalâ info from the GWPF, an âinstitutionâ where neither operational meteorology nor weather/climate research is performed.
severe-weather.eu 07/10/2020 âGreat news: ECMWF moves towards the public with weather model data – now free and accessible to allâ (an oldish announcement).
http://www.ecmwf,int is the present website.
November 3, 2022
Where did Sir John say he got his information from the GWPF heffy?
Reply. Yes, I usually get my info from published government and official sources.
November 4, 2022
ADHD, Peter2? I said âperhapsâ and âhe mightâ not âhe gotâ. But good trolling, as ever so relevant.
November 4, 2022
Very Rude Response heffy
Now you use a real human disability as a personal insult.
Shame on you.
PS
You say trolling…was Sir John’s reply in agreement therefore also the same thing
Just say it heffy you were wrong.
November 3, 2022
But Germany need it because they were, or rather are stupid and rely on Russia – gee thanks Merkel.
We don’t need – listen to any green supporter on here and they will insist with our solar panels and windmills we don’t need oil or gas immediately.
November 3, 2022
Huge exaggeration NHL
November 3, 2022
Or, we could ensure that we always produce enough of our own energy so we donât have need of vulnerable inter connectors. You know, like we used to. Just think if we had relied on an interconnecter to Germany in 1939.
November 2, 2022
I completely agree. This cable will be as vulnerable to Russian sabotage as our North Sea gas pipes. The money would be much better spent on rapid development of new coal fired power stations and the re-opening of coal mines.
The Prime Minister would be well advised to skip COP27 and stay at home to work out how to keep the lights on and Conservative chances at the next election alive.
November 2, 2022
Chief Secretary to the Treasury, which is 100% responsible for the investment: “I will not be able to comment on specific investments. ”
At this point any Speaker worth his salt would have insisted.
November 3, 2022
Speaker should have replied ‘in that case I suggest you resign now, and we can have somebody here to tell the nation about the investment’.
November 2, 2022
Get in touch with the bank? I thought it was BEIS that thought Germany and the UK would have very different weather and would be able to exchange windmill juice. How much is being wasted on this one. Is it too late to add it to the missing ÂŁ40 billion?
November 2, 2022
What a useless evasive answer. Whose supposed to be running this country? Not John Glen, thatâs for sure.
November 2, 2022
To paraphrase the response âI have no idea and I donât careâ.
November 2, 2022
One truly wonders if Parliament has had its day – Given the nature of the exchanges between MPs asking serious questions, and what ministers actually provide.
By their very nature, responses to questions are brief, but they also exclude, 90% of the time, any real facts or even answer the questions raised. The whole thing has become a circus with ministers able to waffle on about nothing, while important issues are allowed to be ignored.
It is clear that Parliament no longer serves us – it has become a talking shop museum.
November 3, 2022
It was always a talking shop,but sometimes we heard from MPs who new about the subject and told us their opinion.
In recent years it is mostly playground jeering and raucous pub ‘ throwing out’ disturbance.
November 2, 2022
Shameful dereliction! We have two Ministers without a grip or interest responding with: –
“Tom Tugendhat MP, Minister of State for Security: I will not comment on the details of the taskforce, but I think I can safely say that that is a little beyond even what I was hoping for. I will not go into details, …” per your previous post today and here: –
“John Glen MP, Chief Secretary to the Treasury: I will not be able to comment on specific investments…”
I on the other hand can comment. Each has only been in office for a week and it looks like both have sat for too long for any good they might do. Granted, neither was perhaps expecting to do any good but we would appreciate some form even where, as typically, there is no substance.
November 2, 2022
Too many of our politicians still put the EU first (specifically Germany). Will the UK have to manage without electricity, as probably planned already. We will learn to manage without most things, including doctors, dentists, NHS, sewage treatment, water, transport, heating, food, etc. It is so comforting to know the ‘uninvited guests” will be well cared for in ALL areas (sarc).
November 3, 2022
I note that forward power prices over the winter remain significantly higher in France than in the UK. That clearly implies an expectation that France will be covering some of its shortages by importing from the UK. That is only possible in cold Dunkelflaute conditions if UK demand is rationed.
November 3, 2022
So they are planning on rationing in the UK to supply the EU? Has that been pre-agreed. Project Yarrow ar an EU level.?
November 2, 2022
“…and put him in touch with the bank so that the (lack of) logic behind that decision…”
November 2, 2022
Well the Germans do seem to be happy to burn coal so perhaps it would be worthwhile to import that cheap electricity. But surely far better to burn more of our own coal here until suitable replacements are available and forget the cable. After all we but wood which is just young coal that is imported on diesel ships and trucks to burn at Drax causing far more CO2 output than coal does. The “renewables” agenda is also causing vast sums to be spend on additional cables and pylons in the UK to move this intermittent energy around. Note that transmission networks for intermittent energy are far worse value than ones for on demand energy as they cost far, far more per Mega Joule transported and it also has to be moved from many, very inconveniently positioned, wind farms and similar sources.
November 2, 2022
Another expensive, daft idea just like HS2 !
November 4, 2022
Oh! go on, be controversial.
November 2, 2022
You should read the NOA for interconnectors at
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/document/233081/download ( page 28) There’s a path to the UK being a net exporter of renewable energy. Alas, being anti EU blinds you to growth possibilities.
November 3, 2022
acorn, at profit to whom? Are these energy farms UK-owned and paying corporation tax in the UK? Or are they owned by companies elsewhere in the EU?
November 3, 2022
whenever we have an exportable surplus of renewable energy the Continent tends to be well supplied as well. Our export prices become very low, and even negative, allowing Continental wind farms to be subsidised to curtail at UK expense. It is not good business for the UK.
We last had negative prices only a few days ago, in the midst of the energy crisis. They will become much more common as more wind capacity is added. At the same time the added capacity does nothing to provide power on windless days.
November 2, 2022
Quite right Sir John – there is no logic, its a bail out for Germany who put all their power chips on Russia and it failed. Why would we help ? Does COP27 condone Germany re-opening coal mining again?
November 3, 2022
Quid pro-quo someone blew up those gas pipelines?
November 4, 2022
Let me guess … Greenpeace anyone?
November 2, 2022
Because the treasury and many in your party want to keep us hog tied to the EU.
I see Klaus has given Soonack his instructions and off he scuttles to COP out 27.
More pointless CO2 emissions but hey ho Davos must be obeyed.
How come we are granting 55% of Albanian asylum request when the rest of Europe isn’t allowing any.
November 3, 2022
Ian. So funny. Dont they realise when Albania is in the EU they will have no choice but to take them in?
November 2, 2022
More money wasted! I winder whoâs pocket that is greasing?
November 2, 2022
Another non-answer from a government minister.
If they know nothing then what is the point of them?
When even MPs cannot get a straight answer then you have to ask if we have a genuine democracy.
November 2, 2022
The BoE is publicly owned. How can the Chief Secretary to the Treasury refuse a public answer in Parliament to an MP’s question, as if it was a private matter? Or is the truth that the Treasury doesn’t actually know what the logic of that investment decision was?
November 2, 2022
Both Norway and Sweden are regretting the consequences of having opened new interconnectors to Germany, which has threatened their supply security and imported high prices in to the populous southern areas of those countries. They have now imposed a moratorium on any new interconnector capacity until Germany sorts out its power sector. At which point, more interconnectors become redundant. Please feel free to use this chart showing the impact of new interconnection to Germany on the Norwegian market in your communication with the bank.
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/fLVEo/1/
I also note that OFGEM ran a consultation on new interconnector policy a while back. Their consultants found it was detrimental to UK consumers, which has of course been happily ignored by OFGEM and by National Grid, which has been making handsome profits at UK consumer expense out of their interconnector investments.
It should be remembered that one of the justifications for more interconnection is to enable the export of heavily subsidised surplus wind power as we become the Saudi Arabia of wind. This is completely against UK consumer interests.
November 3, 2022
My own contribution to the consultation was published by OFGEM here
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2021-12/F2S%20Response%20%281%29.pdf
It includes a critique of the analysis provided by OFGEM’s consultant and of OFGEM’s views that ignore consumer interests.
November 4, 2022
surely any excess should be aimed at the EV market place – at least a form of battery power saving.
November 2, 2022
John Glen MP, Chief Secretary to the Treasury: I will not be able to comment on specific investments.
Why on earth Mr Glen will “you not be able to” do you mean you just haven’t a clue or rather that you prefer/choose not to?. The latter is rather different. After all it is your department (as number 2) and the Chancellor who are signing these huge so called “investments” off. Then again the man read modern history so he probably has little Maths, physics, science or engineering education beyond GCSE level so perhaps “he will not be able to”.
November 2, 2022
NeuConnect, which seems to be doing the work claims that the venture is âprivately fundedâ. Odd?
But it has always been said that wind powered electricity sharing with the EU was just another way of cementing the UKâs EU ties.
Apparently this undertaking will help ease Germanyâs excess power bottleneck.
OhâŠno energy probs then?
November 3, 2022
It does nothing to alleviate the shortage of North-South connection capacity within Germany needed to move surplus solar to the North and surplus wind to the South. Germany has tried to depend on neighbouring grids for the transmission it has failed to build. Meanwhile the onshore connection point on the Isle of Sheppey is very close to the BritNed station at Kingsnorth and the NEMO connection from Sandwich to Belgium with the main IFA1 and Eleclink connections to France not far away.
Already there are major transmission constraints in the area and there will need to be massive grid expansion to supply these Southern links with surplus wind from Scotland and the Dogger Bank
November 2, 2022
John Glenâs reply appeared as worthless as offering a copy of Yellow Pages to look up the Bankâs contact details. Sending the question to Germany instead might have revealed a more useful explanation!
November 2, 2022
Theyâre all idiots – The governmentâs climate czar, Alok Sharma, has warned Rishi Sunak not to go ahead with plans to open the UKâs first new coal mine in a generation, attempting to block a new domestic fuel source in Britain
November 3, 2022
Idiots or just lying puppets dancing as instructed by higher authorities.
November 3, 2022
on the balance of probability …I am inclined to think you are correct.
November 2, 2022
The Bank like the Markets has a mind of it’s own in these matters and can sense the future meaning that whether present day politicians like it or not our future is very much tied to the European mainland as they see it – because why else would they go to the trouble of spending so much on an electricity cable link? and when we can’t even get a straight answer from the Chief Secretary of the Treasury in the House
November 3, 2022
Another “talk to the hand” response Sir John.
When Ministers can treat a senior backbench colleague like this, why on earth should the electorate have any respect whatsoever for the Government?
Why is the connector being financed ….. because we are still signed up to the EU policy of energy interdependence. We are NOT ALLOWED to have energy security and we HAVE TO provide energy for EU nations when they need it.
November 3, 2022
Very curious. I wonder if it isn’t yet another action (cost) tying us back into the toils of the EU. I’d be interested to see if the bank’s justification mentions the North Seas Energy Cooperation, from which the UK was “barred” on leaving the EU. Apparently we can’t be a member unless we sign up to EU Internal Market rules.
The UK has now signed a MoU with this North Seas Energy Cooperation. Apparently it’s a “European Commission-funded group that works together to bring down the cost of offshore wind and promote interconnection between countries”. Lord Callanan said: âWe want to help to share our experience and our knowledge with other countries in the North Sea and to get on with delivering the next wave of European energy projects.â Callanan was speaking at the Wind Energy Hamburg 2022 conference in Germany.
November 3, 2022
The Bank of England has just raised base rate from 2.25% to 3%. The raise was accompanied by the Governor of the BoE saying that it was necessary to control inflation. That gives rise to three questions:
Q1 For the Governor of the BoE. Who was it unleashed inflation in the first place, with ultra-low interest rates and QE throughout 2021. Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. If energy prices hadn’t gone up. other prices would.
Q2 For the PM and the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Why has the Govenor not been sacked?
Q3 Has the experiment of delegating base rate and inflation control decisions to the BoE been a success?
November 3, 2022
âthe bankâ
Which bank?
Reply British Business Bank owned by state
November 3, 2022
Energy security is paramount, blatantly obvious for years and now proven ref the current fess up on bills and forecast winter blackouts. If we can also export energy then we can pay down the national debt (doing a Norway).
Boris said we’d be the Wind of Qatar or some such phrase… but that is intermittant & unreliable unless backed by nuclear or ungreen gas.. Rishi has decided not to frack after all, nor place orders for SMRs as far as I can see.
So we appear to be destined for ‘managed decline’ and sadly a Lolabour/coalition at the next GE…. 12 tortuous Tory years and still dithering. Fusion still 10-20 years away – I wouldn’t bet the pension on it.
For the younger generation it looks pretty dire as stagflation and depression looms large…
November 3, 2022
Why are we using far more advanced farming systems?
Like the Netherlands and Singapore, to grow greenhouse vegetables and fruit despite the outside UK climate.
This would give us much more food security and reduced CO2 importing the same from overseas.
November 3, 2022
Why “aren’t” we using far more advanced farming systems?
Like the Netherlands and Singapore, to grow greenhouse vegetables and fruit despite the outside UK climate.
This would give us much more food security and reduced CO2 importing the same from overseas.
November 3, 2022
Sir JR
I am afraid I think you have missed the point. Germany is part of the integrated electricity network with both France, Denmark and Poland.
This integration could assist the UK as well
across a whole spectrum and has nothing to do with the explanation given by Sir JR and has nothing to do with its similar geographic location
November 3, 2022
Germany may well be connected to France and Poland eubilly.
But Sir John was specifically speaking about a connection between the UK and Germany.
Did you actually read the original post before you rattled off another pro EU post?
November 4, 2022
Peter 2
There must be limits even to your limited capacity. Being linked with the rest of the network gives Germany e more capacity to export to other countries.
Hilarious Peter 2 as usual
November 4, 2022
You are copying your pal heffy eubilly
Avoid answering and just make a personal insult
You miss the point…
If Germany is short of energy…and it is…what do you think will happen?
November 4, 2022
Peter 2
It can import energy via the three countries I mentioned.
Considering your insults I will disregard your comments
November 5, 2022
Missing the point again eubilly
If short of energy, the likelihood is that Germany will satisfy it’s own energy needs before it exports energy to the UK.
Which is why I believe UK energy independence is important.
PS
You disregard my comments yet you are triggered to reply.
Hilarious
November 5, 2022
Germany is no longer a net exporter of electricity.
When Pöyry (now known as AFRY) did their original assessment of the project back in 2017 they were assuming that Germany would continue to be an exporter of cheaper power than the UK could produce. Even so, they found that in most scenarios it would be a disbenefit to GB consumers and to the GB economy. It found there was a significant risk the project would have to be subsidised by floor payments under a cap and floor regime.
The project should really have undergone a complete and updated assessment. The cap and floor regime offers revenue guarantees at consumer expense that now look to be more likely to be called on. The project has already deferred its start date to 2028 in the hope that the economics might look better by then.
November 5, 2022
Thankyou Mark for your post.
Maybe heffy and his pal eubilly will read it.
November 4, 2022
Work on NeuConnect is only starting now that the project finally reached financial close in July 2022. The state via the UK Infrastructure Bank provides ÂŁ150 m out of a ÂŁ2.4 bn expected cost. What is curious is why Sir John only reacts in November when the main announcement was on 21 July.
November 4, 2022
I note you wrote ‘ could’ assist . I won’t hold my breath.
November 4, 2022
Peter 2
There must be limits even to your limited capacity. Being linked with the rest of the network gives Germany e more capacity to export to other countries.
Hilarious Peter 2 as usual
November 4, 2022
What is hilarious is your duplicated posts eubilly
November 5, 2022
You have to stop being so rude
November 4, 2022
WHY is the Chief Financial Secretary unable to comment on specific investments? Why don’t you throw the Freedom of Information Act at him?