How should we define poverty?

We all agree we want to abolish poverty. The arguments about how to tackle poverty and low incomes in UK politics are not about the aim. All political parties and all sensible politicians want to wipe out poverty, want more jobs and better pay. Our arguments are about how you make that happen.

This week the government has ventured into the difficult territory of trying to define poverty. The World Bank says you are poor if you have less than $2 a day to spend, as that means you cannot afford the basics of food and shelter. They go for an absolute standard of poverty, where to be poor you go hungry or have no suitable home. In the UK most of the organisations who talk about poverty prefer to use a relative measure, so our definition of poverty is of a much higher basic required income so that people can assume a standard of food, clothing and housing related to the average that people in a rich country like the UK enjoy.

As one of the leading anti poverty charities puts it ” When we talk about poverty in the UK today we rarely mean malnutrition or the levels of squalor of previous centuries or even the hardships of the 1930s before the advent of the Welfare state. It is a relative concept”

Labour in office defined child poverty as living in a household with an income less than 60% of the UK average. This means in a recession as in 2007-9 when average incomes fall you can have the paradoxical effect that child poverty falls, though children in low income households are not themselves better off. Similarly, if we enter a period of faster income growth then children in lower income households can be better off but there could be more in poverty as defined if inequality rises as incomes rise.

The government is looking at a range of measures including poor educational attainment, long term worklessness in the household, drug and drink dependency and family breakdown to get to the bottom of which children are at risk or getting a bad deal. Do you agree with this approach?

Euro 50 billion more for Greece

The IMF has apparently come to two conclusions on Greece which the rest of the Euro area does not wish to admit. First, Greece will not be able to pay back all that she owes. Second, she needs another Euro 50 billion. Why then did the IMF lend Greece so much before with the pretence that it would work?
If Greece is to stay in the Eurozone she will need Euro 50 billion or more, to have enough cash for her banks to distribute and enough money for her government to pay its bills. In a normal currency zone this money would be sent to the poorer part of the zone and much of it would be grant, not loan. A city or county in the UK with low incomes and high unemployment does not have to borrow from the rest of the UK, but receives central cash to pay welfare benefits, pensions and local authority costs by way of grant.
If Germany wants to carry on with her currency zone then she has to accept that German taxpayers – and the taxpayers of other rich countries – have to fork out to pay for Greece. Greece, for its part, has to accept that the Eurozone can then settle its budgets and interfere in its government decisions.
It is deeply damaging to the Greek economy and people to go on pretending that Greece can pay her way locked into the Euro, and to pretend the European institutions can get all their money back with the agreed interest. After seven years of agreed programmes for reform and all that borrowing Greece is no nearer today to being able to repay than when it all started. So the rest of the zone must either pay up or tell Greece to leave. Outside the Euro Greece will become more competitive immediately and better able to pay her way. Her borrowing will then be limited by the market to levels she can afford.
the zone is cruel and unrealistic. It needs to tell Greece to leave, or it needs to pay up and take social responsibility for the unemployment and severe cuts it has helped create.

What a scorcher?

On Wednesday we were told by various media outlets that the 36 degrees recorded in some parts of the UK was a new record.

That’s strange. The Met Office’s own website shows a high of 38.5 degrees in 2003. It’s still nothing like the summer of 1976 when the temperature from 23 June to 7th July was always over 32 degrees somewhere in the UK – now that was a hot summer.

This week is not the first time rails have buckled from heat, nor the first time we have hit 36 degrees. I seem to remember it used to be thought very hot if we hit 100 degrees Fahrenheit, which is more than 36 Celsius.

Countering terrorism

Yesterday in the Commons we debated defence matters. The Secretary of State explained the actions UK aircraft are taking in Iraq, at the request of the Iraqi government. He raised the issue of whether the new Parliament would reconsider the position in Syria, and allow air strikes by UK aircraft there as well. Several of us advised against.

I share his revulsion at the actions of extreme groups in various parts of the Middle East. We all feel we want to take action to make an attack like that in Tunisia last week less likely. However, a mature well armed state needs to think carefully before committing to military action. It should always ask Is this a war we can win? If we win this war will there be a satisfactory peace that is better than the current situation? Can we win the war without doing unacceptable levels of damage to the place concerned, and without excessive loss of life, especially for non combatants?

The UK has had to counter domestic terrorist threats. The UK always sought to respond to terrorism at home under the rule of law. The authorities tried to locate terrorists, assemble evidence and prosecute them as criminals. This remains our approach to terrorists in the UK linked to Middle Eastern fanatical groups. In the Irish troubles the terrorists sought special political status. There were endless arguments about the use of force for self defence by the UK authorities and about the legal processes and the detention of prisoners.

To end the terrorist troubles in Northern Ireland successive UK governments, both Conservative and Labour, came to the conclusion that they needed to undertake a political process, engaging terrorist organisations in talks and finding a democratic answer to the conflicts within a troubled community. No political party in the UK ever advocated pursuing a war on terrorist organisations,authorising shooting or bombing by the state.

I raised the question of how the UK can contribute to a negotiated settlement in Iraq or Syria, and drew attention to the contrast between treating terrorism as a serious policing matter, and treating it as a war to be fought despite the terrorists being embedded in civilian communities of people who are not themselves killing others. The Minister reminded me that in the case of Iraq we have the request of the civilian authority and operate under that legal cover. In Syria we do not wish to be friends of the Assad regime, so there is no similar legal base for intervening in Syrian territory. The Minister implied that any intervention would be as a result of extending the remit from Iraq, chasing terrorists over the border who have been operating in Iraq itself.

I understand the frustration of many that we have not so far been able to stop some of the advances of terrorists in Iraq and Syria, though nor have we in Nigeria and other Middle Eastern countries where there is no UK wish to take military action.There are many other well armed powers in the region that can and do take action and know the local religion, culture and languages better than us.

The questions the government needs to ask are the ones in this piece. I do not see a way for the UK military to improve the situation in Syria by bombing. The UK should be neither on the side of the Sunni nor the Shia forces in this religious war. We should remember just how difficult it has proved to create a stable peace in Libya after taking military action. We should also remember our soldiers and air crews. Their tasks should be both feasible and legal.

English votes – you read it here first

Today begins a government journey to give some justice to England. The minimum required is a guarantee that England will not have to pay a higher rate of Income Tax than Scotland based on Scottish votes at Westminster, that England’s MPs have a veto over laws the Union Parliament wishes to impose just on England, and that England has more power to decide how to spend the money we raise in taxes which is the equivalent of the Scottish bloc grant.

This was something I highlighted last summer during the Scottish referendum campaign:

August 10 2014 post
“On Tuesday I am giving the McWhirter Memorial lecture at 7.30pm on HMS President, moored on the Victoria Embankment in London.

I will use the opportunity to make the case for England. If we assume Scotland votes to stay in the Union, the three main Westminster parties have promised more powers including powers over parts of taxation will be passed to the Scottish Parliament. This will be the time to recognise that England too wants and deserves devolved government, enjoying the same powers of self determination of laws, spending and taxes as our Scottish neighbours and friends.

I will ask Who currently speaks for England? Why do the EU and many senior politicians in the UK want to break England up into regions that we do not seek or recognise? Why can’t English MPs at Westminster make the decisions for England, and speak for England, in the way the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh does for Scotland?

If we are revisiting Scotland’s settlement, we need to consider England’s at the same time. Many English people will not accept Scottish members of the Westminster Parliament voting through taxes on England that they do not have the power to impose on Scotland.”

Mr Javid gives good advice to the CBI

I was delighted to read the Business Secretary’s speech to the CBI this week. In it he told them in no uncertain terms that if they continue to say the UK must stay in the EU come what may, they undermine the Prime Minister’s negotiations. He reminded them that in a negotiation you need to set out what you want, and to indicate that you will walk away if you do get a good offer. Business is for ever telling us they want to stay in a reformed EU, not the current EU. They should now tell us what reforms they want. They should also tell Brussels what reforms they want, and tell Brussels that people in the UK will vote against staying in if we are not offered solutions to the problems with our current membership.

At the base of the UK’s unsatisfactory relationship with the modern EU is the way in which the EU uses the so called single market as an excuse to regulate, legislate and interfere in a range of other important matters in ways which UK voters do not approve. The modern challenge for business is the way in which the demands of the Euro for more taxes, more financial controls and more business regulation are also spilling over into the wider EU. Big business does not like the banker bonus controls, the Financial Transactions Tax and the new banking capital rules from Brussels, though these may be popular with some voters. Nor does business like the results of the EU’s energy policy, with dear gas and electricity driving energy using businesses out of the UK.

The truth business needs to understand is that membership of the current EU is not a comfortable status quo that they can live with, but a ticket for a wild ride to political union which may do all sorts of things they do not want. The recent programme set out by the 5 Presidents of Euroland and the EU show just how central to the EU the Euro project has become. They want legally binding targets and controls on economies, a Euro Treasury, a financial union, and a political union. The UK has wisely decided not to join the Euro. Few business leaders want us to join the Euro. They therefore need to understand that any UK government now has to negotiate a new relationship with the emerging Euro state. We want to trade with them, be friends with them, have a range of sensible agreements with them but we do not wish to be governed by them.

It is an urgent task to get more business people to grasp that now we have an opportunity to free ourselves to be more prosperous, and to free the Euro area to get on with what it wants to do. The UK and our businesses do not wish to be drawn into a massive transfer union where we have to pay more tax to send to countries in the Eurozone that need more aid and support. That is why now is the time for business to tell us what reforms they need as we seek this change of approach.

Airport expansion

The London airport report recommends an extra runway and inclines towards building it at Heathrow, though it leaves open the possibility of Gatwick. I will study the report over the week-end and will send in formal representations to Ministers in due course. I would appreciate constituents’ views before I do so. In an interview today on the report I stressed the need to do better at controlling noise from Heathrow over our area. I am making new representations about the current level of noise and possible ways of abating it later this month.

Mr Redwood’s speech on the Scotland Bill during the committee stage, 30 June 2015

John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): I think that the Committee wants to implement the spirit and the letter of Smith, and I look forward to hearing the Secretary of State’s response to the detailed arguments advanced by the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford). I think, however, that when we are dealing with a matter as potentially wide-ranging as universal credit, we also need to think about the money, and about how far it is possible to operate a very different welfare system in different parts of a country such as the United Kingdom. What we have seen in the unfolding and dreadful Greek crisis is that, if a country belongs to a currency union but has not brought its benefits system into line, and if there is no proper system of sharing revenues and expenditures throughout the eurozone, that becomes extremely damaging, as it has for the poor Greeks.

Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP): I am sure the right hon. Gentleman is not suggesting that there is an in-line benefits system across Europe. The real problem is austerity. The Greeks were told five years ago that, if they followed austerity measures, their problems would end, but their problems have not ended. They have become worse, because austerity makes things worse. It is nothing to do with welfare; it is to do with austerity.

John Redwood: I think that welfare has quite a lot to do with austerity, and I think that we agree. I think that the policies that have been forced on Greece have been too austere. It is quite wrong to make the Greeks cut public spending when they cannot expand their money supply, expand credit or expand the private sector to create the jobs that they clearly need to create in order to make some success out of the cuts imposed on the public sector.

When, after 2010, we conducted policy as a coalition to bring about recovery in Britain—including Scotland—it worked very well, and it was private sector led. We were able to do that because we had a full range of powers over interest rates, money creation, credit and banking, which a nation that has joined a currency union does not have. That is the Greek tragedy. The Greeks are able to carry out only the public sector part of the EU fix, which is the bit that is austere. They are not able to carry out the private sector-led recovery.

Of course, we are not here to talk about Greece; we are here to talk about our currency union. However, I wanted to make that point because, whereas Greece is having to move away from a position in which it shared only currency and is now discovering that it needs to share a great many other policies with the European Union in order to achieve success, in Scotland things are going in the opposite direction.

We have a currency union—a perfectly good currency union, which is supported on all sides. I believe that Members of the SNP are great fans of the currency union and do not wish Scotland to have an independent currency, but they need to consider this: if they do not want proper independence in the sense of having their own currency, and if the currency is to work in the way in which it has worked in the past, there will have to be some basic standards of welfare that are common across the country, and there will have to be agreed systems of transferring money from rich areas to poor ones. There are rich towns and cities in both Scotland and in England. The rule of our system is that those in areas of high income or relative success pay more tax, and those in, say, towns or counties with a lot of poverty benefit from big transfers.

Mr MacNeil: I almost feel sorry for interrupting the right hon. Gentleman when he is advancing a good argument for the redistribution of wealth through taxation, and has also admitted that austerity is not a good idea. However, I think that the mention of Greece is erroneous. If we are talking about an optimal currency zone, a better parallel would be Germany and the Netherlands. The independence that those countries have from each other is welcomed by SNP Members. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will go a little further than the enlightened remarks that he has made so far, and will agree with us that Scotland and England should be as independent from each other as Germany and the Netherlands.

John Redwood: I am not prepared to go that far. I think that there can be problems in the euro currency zone between Germany and the Netherlands, because they do not have the full range of common policies that they may need. At present, it appears that the Dutch and German economies are sufficiently synchronised for the arrangement not to cause problems in the Netherlands, but that is clearly not true of Portugal, Spain, Ireland or Greece. The fact that there are more countries that it does not fit than countries that it does fit implies that there is something wrong with the fundamental architecture of the euro. That is why I am anxious for us to bear it in mind, when we are debating the issue of how much welfare discretion there should be, that a common welfare system is normally one of the characteristics of successful currency unions.

Yes, I do believe in redistribution. We all believe in redistribution. We believe that, in a civilised country such as ours, we should tax the rich more and give money to those who need support. We have arguments about how much the amounts should be and about the conditions, but we all believe in transfers, and we all believe that the balance must be right.

When I asked the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) to say how much more an enlightened Scottish Government would like to give, by means of welfare payments, to tackle immediate problems of low income or poverty, she was not able to tell me. That was a pity, because I took it that her intention, and the purpose of the amendments, was to give the Scottish Executive power to increase benefit levels in comparison with the levels, or the range, of benefits currently on offer in the Union. I did not think that SNP Members were seeking these powers in order to be meaner than the Union Government are proposing to be, and I see them consenting to that. I feel that this debate would be richer and fuller if they shared with us the amount of extra money that they would like to spend.

Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP): Surely the point is that it is for the Scottish Government, whatever their colour, to decide how they want to use the powers. Perhaps one day a Government of the right hon. Gentleman’s colour will be using them. However, no Government would be able to use any powers that had been vetoed by the Secretary of State.

John Redwood: That brings us back to an important and interesting question. At what point does the transfer of power become destabilising for the currency union and the common transfers that make up our common country? That, surely, is one of the issues that were examined in the referendum, when a majority of Scottish people felt that they wanted to remain in the United Kingdom and in the currency union. Having read and listened to what was said by those who were actively involved in the debate, I suspect that the currency union was rather central to the securing of that vote, and that it was when the parties of the Union said that Scotland should leave the currency as well as the UK, if that was the wish of the Scottish people, that the majority voted to stay in the Union.

Mr MacNeil: I should be fascinated to know the size of the changes in welfare spending that the right hon. Gentleman would find destabilising. The hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) said yesterday:

“the Scottish Parliament spends £37 billion and raises £30 billion”.—[Official Report, 29 June 2015; Vol. 597, c. 1234.]

He described that as “quite responsible”. He also said that the UK raised staggeringly more—£648 billion, an amount that is about 20 times greater—but, of course, the UK also spent a great deal more, with a black hole of £732 billion. Given those figures, and given the difference between the sizes of the states of Scotland and the UK, in terms of both spending and raising powers, just what type of changes does the right hon. Gentleman think would have to hit welfare before it began to destabilise the Union? I suggest that it would be necessary to make a millionaire of each and every unemployed person before that point was reached.

John Redwood: I do not think that it would be necessary to go that far. At present, there is clearly a disproportion between the size of Scotland and that of the rest of the United Kingdom, and, as the hon. Gentleman’s budget figures show, a lot more money is collected elsewhere than in Scotland. That, however, is not the point at issue. [Interruption.] I am not asserting anything; I am just asking a question. We are engaging in a crucial debate on how much welfare power should go to Scotland. I am one of those who agree that some welfare power should go to Scotland in accordance with Smith, but we have to ask how far it goes, and what the consequences might be.

If countries have a common work area and a free movement area, and if they share a language, a labour market and a currency, that arrangement can bring benefits when it has settled down, because it is backed by political union. When we start to unpick the political union, we must ask ourselves at what point that unpicking of that union, or the welfare transfer union, will become damaging. A point will be reached when it does become damaging, because one part of the country will be too attractive, or too unattractive, compared with another part. A single currency area as big as the United Kingdom can work only if there are fair systems for raising money from the rich, wherever they may be in that big area, and giving enough to the poor, wherever they may be.

Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP): Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that parts of the United Kingdom are already more unattractive because of decisions on welfare spending? The bedroom tax is one example. In the highlands, there are some 70 communities with no one or two-bedroom properties on the social register for people to move to. How can it possibly be fair for that principle to apply across the UK, when the people who live there are unable to cope with that heinous tax?

John Redwood: I fully understand the arguments against the spare room subsidy, or the bedroom tax. I understand the politics of it only too well. I do not want to go into my private views now, but it is a matter to be settled within the Union Parliament, and by the Government of the Union, under current powers. It does not make good law to say that if there is a particular benefit that people in Scotland do not like very much, that is the one that we should be able to fix. We need to come up with a settlement for a longer-term period which takes account of the principles.

It is for that reason that I am presuming to spend just a few minutes reminding colleagues that very big principles are involved in this instance. We need to secure the right balance, one that enables Scotland to feel that it can make enough of its own decisions to meet the mood of the majority, but falls short of giving it so much power that the Union’s mechanisms for switching money around do not work. I find it very difficult to make decisions on this Bill without knowing what the financial settlement will be, because it will not work unless there is enough money to make it work, or if England does not think that it is fair to them. Scotland may well find that the financial settlement is not fair to them—I am sure our SNP colleagues will not be shy if that is the case—but England has delivered big majorities for me and many of my colleagues, so we have a mandate and a voice and we need to make sure that the financial settlement that emerges is fair to us. The range of powers that Scotland has will have a bearing on that settlement.

Mr MacNeil: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way; he is being very kind. On welfare, we already share a common language with a country in the common travel area, namely the Republic of Ireland, where people can get up to €188 per week, with extra payable for those who have children. I am not saying that people are going from Liverpool or the north-east of England to a far more advantageous situation in the Republic of Ireland in the common travel area—which they could do—so I think that the right hon. Gentleman’s fears are misplaced. I would almost suggest that his fears are politically motivated and based on wanting to keep powers in Westminster and a deep psychological need for Westminster to over-control aspects of people’s lives around the current UK.

John Redwood: I am afraid that that is a bad example, because it proves my case. Ireland broke from the pound, set up its own currency and then, unfortunately for Ireland, chose the euro, but that was Ireland’s decision and it has had a bumpy ride ever since.

The big difference we need to remind ourselves about for the purposes of this welfare debate is that there is a common currency, so there have to be some limits to the amount of freedom appropriate for welfare benefits. If the SNP wishes to be truly independent and wants an independent currency, I fully understand its position and none of these arguments makes any sense.

I think I have made my point and I hope that Ministers will bear in mind that it is very difficult to come to a conclusion before we know what the financial settlement will be. It is also very important to remember that there is a common work, language and currency area, which means that there has to be some family resemblance in the benefits that are paid.

Mr Juncker wants our pity as well as our money

Mr Juncker’s 29th June press conference is already infamous for his parting jibe that the Greeks should not commit suicide because they are afraid of death. There is a serious problem of suicide levels in Greece thanks to the economic misery the Euro and its policies have created. This made the remark crass. Talking of mortality as a simile for the Euro and its policies also showed a curious lack of judgement.

As remarkable was the way Mr Junker decided to talk about the crisis as being about him. He explained how personally saddened and aggrieved he felt by the events of last Saturday. He felt betrayed by the failure of the Greeks to respond to all his personal efforts to bring about a deal. (Je suis profondement afflige, attriste, par le spectacle qu’a donne L’Europe samedi dernier…..apres tous les efforts que j’ai deployes…je me sens un peu trahi parce qu’on prend insuffisament en compte mes efforts personnels…). Highly paid officials do not usually vent their feelings in public about complex negotiations they have to conduct on behalf of their organsations. Mr Junker is paid around £300,000 a year in salary, expenses and benefits to be a professional. Most people could put up with a few difficult meetings for such a large public reward from taxpayers.

In the wider scheme of things Mr Junker’s feelings are of little significance. They do, however, reveal the growing gap between the lives and views of the EU ruling class and many of the voters and taxpayers who have to pay their salaries and live under their unsuccessful policies. The suicide comment is Mr Junker’s “let them eat cake” moment. It could prove to be almost as memorable as its predecessor should Greece dig in and be forced out of the Euro by its lack of cash, the intransigence of the rest of Euroland and its own high spending and borrowing inclinations. Mr Juncker’s personal quest for recognition and for our sympathy for his hard and so far fruitless work to find a compromise or agreement is more a sign of incompetence than proof of a worthy and trusted official who has been treated badly.

Perhaps Mr Juncker should now apologise to the Greek people for his remarks. His closing words in his press conference were a direct appeal to the Greek voters in their forthcoming referendum. He tells them to vote Yes whatever the question. As far as he is concerned he says the real question that the referendum decides is whether Greece stays in the Eurozone. The Greek government say the question is the one they put on the ballot paper, which is about whether to accept the last offer from the rest of the Euro area or not. His speech implies he thinks the question is whether the Greek people come to recognise the talent and hard work of their EU President of the Commission, and whether they give him carte blanche to override their government and sentence them to a few more years of Euro austerity.

Railway improvement?

What should be on the agenda for the new Chairman of Network Rail?
I would like him to start with an analysis of who the users of the railway are, and where the growth in passenger and freight demand might come?

The opportunity seems to lie mainly in two big areas. The first is travel into and out of the larger cities, especially but not only at peak times. The second is more rail freight, taking heavy loads off trucks for longer distance haul. The first is genuine demand, even at current high ticket prices in the case of peak travel . The second is desirable new business which will be price and convenience sensitive.

I would want him to see the problem from the traveller’s point of view. The traveller wishes to go from A to B, where neither A nor B is a railway station. The traveller is interested in speed and convenience as well as price, and will look at total journey time rather than time of the train. This means the successful railway manager does have to ensure good car parks, set down points, bus and mass transit links to mainline stations. The problem with the commuter railway is the problem of peak usage. The railway has to allow for much greater demand at busy times, and have surplus capacity for the rest of the time. More flexibility in running shorter or longer trains would help adjust. Taking too many trains out of the off peak timetable makes the total service less desirable.

Trains need to be lighter, so they can brake more quickly. It would then be possible to increase throughput on lines, from around 30 an hour to 40 an hour in the peak, greatly improving services and adding 33% extra capacity when needed. The long lengths of empty track visible in the morning peak is testimony to an old technology and an unwillingness to innovate to help customers. None of this requires a change of traction from diesel to electric. Customers do not on the whole want electric as opposed to diesel trains, though they would like new trains with more capacity for busy periods.

The problem of freight is one of access and single wagon marshalling. Few businesses have a trainload of traffic for the railway each day. British Rail allowed freight to run down, losing much of the old single wagon business it enjoyed on pre war industrial parks with rail access. The railways came to rely on coal, steel, cars, cement – a few large businesses with large quantities to haul. These in turn have declined or found other cheaper ways of sending their goods.

The railway should ask how can they put freight branch lines back into larger industrial parks and urban industrial areas, so they can pick product up for large manufacturers who lack a trainload? How can they provide marshalling yard access for businesses which are prepared to drive a container to the railway to travel longer distances by train? How can they start to match or beat the price of road haulage? They should be able to cut costs of manpower, as a long train needs but one driver, and cut the costs of fuel. There has to be an allowance for the extra costs of getting to and from the railhead. Maybe the railway has to offer tractor units and delivery drivers to take freight from main freight depots to end destinations.