10 years without more power grab from the EU? Who are you kidding?

What a surprise – the EU has no immediate answer to the “Irish problem”. They should begin by realising they do not have an Irish problem – they have an EU problem. When we cross examined Mr Miliband this week on the subject he both told us they respect the verdict of the Irish people, and that they intend to carry on ratifying as if nothing had happened. As far as he is concerned, it is Ireland’s government that has to get itself out of the “slow lane” and rejoin the main Euro convoy.

I asked Mr Miliband what things the UK wished to get through the EU that they could not do under the existing arrangements. He is for ever telling us we could make more progress on the things that matter if we signed up for the further transfer of powers under the Constitution. He could not name a single item where the Constitutional treaty would make a positive difference. He is eloquent in telling us voters are not interested in institutional change, yet at the very same time insists he must press on with these institutional changes that have bitten the dust at the hands of voters in France, Holland and Ireland. He tell us there will be ten years of no further institutional change if we sign up to these proposals – why can’t the ten years begin without signing up to these? Whose leg does he think he’s pulling in asserting there will be no more changes? We know the EU is always busy thinking up new powers it can transfer, and ways it can advance its ever more ambitious federalist and centralising agenda.

The Miliband formula simply does not wash. We do not believe this will be the end of the power grab. We do not believe this power grab is needed to make common progress with our European neighbours in items that matter to us. We do not think there is a prayer of CAP reform with or without the new Constitution. There is no chance of getting our fish back, with or without this Treaty. There is no chance of cutting costs and cutting the amount of tax we have to send to Brussels, with or without the Constitution. There is no chance of Brussels calming down, and stopping interfering in our daily lives on the scale it now does.

The truth is the people do not want all the Brussels government they are currently getting, do not want to have to pay so much for it, an certainly do not want more of it. Until Brussels realises this and starts cutting back on its demands, it will go on losing referenda when people are allowed one.

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19 Comments

  1. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    The EU is basically anti-democratic and determined to press on with ever closer integration regardless of the views of the people. In fact the views of the people are neither wanted nor respected. Referenda are ignored and will soon cease to be allowed. Whilst totally agreeing with your comments, when I read the final paragraph I must ask what possible hope is there that Brussels will cut back on its demands? In my view there is absolutely none. They will plough on relentlessly in a manner not dissimilar to the Soviet Union until the whole thing collapses. Our loss of self determination, without our agreement, is outrageous and should be resisted by our politicians. Please explain what the next Conservative government will do ensure this.

    Reply:Renegotiate our relationship

  2. [[NAME EDITED]]
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    Wonderful stuff! I do hope you are saying what the other Conservatives (inc David Cameron) are thinking.

  3. adam
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    I agree miliband talks a lot of nonsense.

    Saying there will be no further institutional change is a tacit addmission he knows people dont support more integration.

  4. Alfred T Mahan
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    Of course David Miliband can't answer your question as to what's in it for the UK. The truth is that there isn't anything. There is no problem for which the EU is the solution. We used, for instance, to be told that it had prevented a third world war, and now we're being told that it is necessary to fight climate change, of all things. Both these propositions are nonsense.

    Abraham Lincoln was right – you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. The EU has been built on a web of deceit which is unravelling, and the longer it is left, and the more interwoven it all becomes, the more problems unravelling it will cause. The best hope is to start rolling it back now, even though in the short term this may be painful and will make any nation initiating the process a bit of a pariah for a time with the Brussels nomenklatura.

    What hope is there that even the Conservatives will attempt it for Britain? Almost none.

  5. Posted June 20, 2008 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    The EU regulatory system costs the continent $405 billion a year according to Gunter Verheuggen the "Enterprise" Commissioner. That is much more than Iraq costs the US. If that was all put into promoting growth we would be growing faster than China.

    Better off out.

  6. adam
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    The EU has set itself this deadline of Jan 1 2009. I dont know what is supposed to happen in 2009 but they are in a fix now.
    The Irish leaders have been given four months to find a solution. we might see another referendum in december

  7. Cliff
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    John:

    You say we will renegotiate our relationship. Just what do we have to negotiate with? Negotiation implies give and take by all parties, it seems to me, the UK has given everything and taken nothing, whilst Brussels has, given nothing and taken everything.

    You still haven't explained to me why so many of our politicians think further integration is such a good thing. What is in it for them? Why are so many politicians so keen to get shot of our national identity, our right to govern ourselves and to push for a giant superstate. Why are our government pushing for the type of political system that has been shown time and time again to fail? Ie communism/socialism.

    I just wish there were a few more in todays Conservative Party with views nearer to yours regarding "conserving" our country, our way of life and our British values.

    We have so many politicians and others banging on about the EUSSR being such a great thing for the world and how we should all embrace it and that the general population are too thick to understand the real intentions of the EUSSR and yet, no one within the EUSSR's fan club can say exactly why it is such a good thing. Why is that? Is it because actually the instincts of the general population are spot on and it will not benefit them at all?

    I am sick and tired of the political elites belief that Nanny knows best.

    Obviously I do not tar you with the brush used in the previous paragraph as you are one of the few principled Eurosceptic politicians we still have.

    It must be a strange thing to be asked by your primeminister, who swore an oath to you only a few months earlier, to effectively sign your own death warrant.
    GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!

  8. Freeborn John
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Milliband is being economical with the truth when talking about no more EU treaties for 10 years, because this treaty will allow more power grabs without more treaties. The passerelle clause will allow a one-time vote in the Council of Ministers to lead to a permanent move to qualified majority voting in a policy areas subject to unanimity now. Also when a government surrenders an opt-out it binds its successors. The UK opt-outs in this treaty must therefore be regarded as temporary, just as the UK opt-out from the Maastricht social-chapter proved to be.

    The big questions for me now are
    (i) Can the Irish and perhaps the Czechs hold out until the Conservatives come to power in 2010? If they do will the dark forces behind the project simply enact as much of Lisbon as they can anyway under the existing Nice rules and attach the rest to an accession treaty for Croatia which they will argue can be ratified by the Irish parliament without another referendum?
    (ii) Would a failure for Lisbon to come into force actually take the steam out of the EU issue in the UK, making it less likely that a Conservative government would finally grasp the EU nettle? The EU problem for me is bigger than this treaty, which may serve to bring the issue to a head.

    Anyway, it is clear that the EU will not stop its relentless campaign for more powers, because this is actually its primary mission with all talk of real-world problem solving being merely the excuse used to justify the extension of power. The project must be broken.

  9. paul coombes
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    In your reply to my comment on yesterday's blog you stated that Tories were the only way to 'reverse the Brussels ratchet'. Today you say that the Conservatives will 'Renegotiate our relationship'. Why is it that you are saying this but I don't hear it from Mr. Cameron?

    Reply: You have if only you would listen.

  10. Derek W. Buxton
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    "Renegotiate our relationship", precisely how? The EU does not take "no" for an answer and so far, with respect, few politicians have shown the least wish to renegotiate let alone the will. I recall a senior Conservative politician produced a report on reclaiming our fisheries, his name escapes me for the moment, I am sure you know who I mean, but the leader dumped it. That to me indicates that "we live in the best of all possible worlds", so get lost little man. None of the three major parties wants to listen to the people, that really is a major problem because with increasing penalties coupled with rising costs, at some stage the people will realise what has happened to their Country.

  11. mikestallard
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    I have just been reading on Open Europe the quotes from European statesmen(!?!) about what happens next.
    The most shocking was Shirley Williams in the Lords talking about the "guilty" Irish.
    It is manifestly obvious that from France, through Germany downwards to the rest, this treaty is going to be implemented. The only bright spark was the Polish Minister who asked if the Constitution could be written in language that he could understand.
    Mr Miliband, by not questioning the party line, is rapidly losing his creditability as future leader of the Labour rump after the next election. I think everybody can see this.

  12. Travis Bickle
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Apparently the best Hilary Benn could come up with as to why we need further EU Integration is to "manage *dangerous* climate change". Just about sums up the paucity of their argument in covering up this unerring march to undemocratic federalism.

  13. Travis Bickle
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    John, the trouble is that people just don't believe that we can renegotiate our relationship with the EU. I'd suggest the Irish are in the strongest position to redefine their relationship, it's a great shame that we didn't have a UK Government with the foresight (and will) to see the strong negotiating position we could have got ourselves into with a cast iron certain NO vote.

  14. Posted June 20, 2008 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    A Legal challenge has been bought in today . Only individuals with wealth are able to even temporarily halt the process.

    They keep comparing the situation to the United States seemingly forgetting that an almighty war, causing more bloodshed than any American war since, was part of the whole unifying process.
    "we have had our war, it was WW2"..well no it wasn't.

    America was effectively Two Countries forced into one.
    Europe is 27 and rising. That will be one hell of a bloody battle.
    The Eu musn't be allowed to force members. It must learn a little real Democracy.

  15. Adrian Peirson
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    John the Surrender of Sovereignty is illegal under our constitution.

    Why is this happening,

    80% of our Laws come from the EU now, what point a General election.
    If there really are 4000 extremists stalking Britain, only one jas to get lucky then Brown can Invoke the civil contingencies bill and declare martial law.
    http://drjn.co.uk/

  16. Adrian Peirson
    Posted June 20, 2008 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    We have traded with Europe and the World for hundreds of years, without the EU ConstiTraityTution, why do we need this now.

  17. Posted June 21, 2008 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    "it is clear that the EU will not stop its relentless campaign for more powers, because this is actually its primary mission with all talk of real-world problem solving being merely the excuse used to justify the extension of power"

    Good point Freeborn john. This is a good specific instance of the general case of Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy:

    "In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely."

    The only things the EU can justify this ever closer union on is fighting terrorism, better done by Interpol etc & global warming, which has been defeated by the lack of sunspots. Shows how parasitic these people are. It also shows why efforts at reform are a task worthy of Sisyphus & we would be better off out.

  18. Sally
    Posted July 19, 2008 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Were any Politician genuine in what they say, then why remain silent when our own bill of rights 1689 also our constitution is more than enough to prevent what the traitors are doing?
    Close down the illegal BBC Get onto a national network and then call for rebellion that's what a genuine MP would be doing!
    Explain how the taxes are illegal above a certain amount 20% split between local and national gov.
    And for God's sake stop treating us like idiots!
    Kick all the Fabians out of Westminster inc the TORY ones otherwise the people WILL!

    • S4
      Posted January 28, 2009 at 1:53 am | Permalink

      sorry, but on the 1st Jan 2009 the British Constitution was abolished.

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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