The English Democrats get it wrong again

What is it about the English Democrats that they revel in almost losing their deposit(amended text) in a by election where the two main federalist parties withdrew? Why on earth did they stand against a Eurosceptic Conservative, David Davis, in the by-election, only to be hammered again?

Don’t they see that it gives our joint enemies, the Eurofederalists, more ammunition when the English Democrats stand on a staunchly Eurosceptic ticket and get so little support? The BBC were predictably gleeful about telling us of their defeat, singled out from all the other losers in the by election.

Maybe they want to damage the Eurosceptic cause. They cannot seriously believe that David Davis is a fan of overweaning Brussels government, any more than of overweaning Whitehall government. He, like the Conservative Party, voted No to Nice, No to Amsterdam and No to Lisbon. Assuming they are intelligent people one has to conclude they like losing and harming the cause they claim to support. It’s just a good job the by election was not a close race, where diverting votes from a Euroscpetic Conservative could once again have given a seat to the Federalists.

This entry was posted in Blog. Bookmark the permalink. Both comments and trackbacks are currently closed.

54 Comments

  1. AlanofEngland
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Well, John, I think you will find the answer to your question in two words "English" and "Democrats". I'm surprised to find you of all people condemning the English people who actually turned out to excercise their democratic right to vote. As the EDP site says…."The people of England have been badly let down, ignored and taken for granted by successive governments who have squandered our taxes on their political idealism. Let down by self serving career politicians whose only concern is their own advancement. We are the only party that is listening to the people of England. Our views represent the common sense concerns of the silent majority. Our policies share one criteria – they put our country first." As for "revel in losing their deposit", has democracy come down in your mind to the loss of a deposit? So Davis is a Eurosceptic Conservative? So was I once, now I am Eurosceptic without hope of England EVER being the priority of your party.

  2. Isthatso?
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    John,
    I believe that in the party you are a wasted talent, but I cannot agree with you on David Davis. Most of us do not believe that the Tories are really Eurosceptic. Davis was the chief whip when Masstricht was forced through.
    I am so incensed with the stance taken Davis over the security of the British public that I will be voting English Democrat at the next GE.

  3. Letters From A Tory
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    The English Democrats should be putting forward a principled set of policies that focus on English laws, English democracy and a sound economic strategy. Instead they just end making fools of themselves, which I think is rather sad.
    http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com

    • John Lillywhite
      Posted August 11, 2009 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

      If you took the precaution of a little investigation before soundind off , you will find that The EDP DOEShave a set of very good (For England) policies.

  4. Chris Horne
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    Usually agree with you 99% of the time…I guess this is the 1% moment! Perhaps the reason why 7% voted English Democrat is that the party campaigns for an English parliament, capitalising on the growing wish of many in England to have more control over their own affairs. The Conservatives do not…at the moment the Conservatives cannot even apparently bring themselves to argue for English votes on English laws. I feel the Conservatives are really missing a trick in England by not campainging for more democracy in England…and that DOES NOT have to be in any way anti the Union.

  5. Jonathan
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    I think that there is the possibility of a major sea change in politics similar to the death of the Liberals in 1920 or the death of the Tory Party in 1832 and 1714.
    The economy is going South, and people are going to get much poorer. Labour is now exploded as a philosophy. First Socialism was proved to be wrong and now its public service mantra that there is nothing wrong that a little more tax wouldn't fix has been tested to destruction. If you are an upper class leftie you will vote LibDem, if you are a lower class leftie you will vote BNP. The current Conservative leadership is afraid of any radical initiative and I begin to suspect actually intellectually opposed to right wing radicalism, carrying an almost Macmillanite baggage into the 21st century.
    People despise parliament and all current politicians and parties for their failure to respond to their concerns, whilst introducing masses of unwanted regulations and authoritarianisms at ever greater taxes.
    As the economy worsens, I suspect that the fault line in politics will shift from left/right to nationalist/internationalist. The Conservatives should obviously be on the nationalist side of that line but seem determined not to be. If they win in 2010 and just manage decline then there could be a convulsion shortly after bringing to prominence "joke" parties like the English Democrats or UKIP that make a nationalist message. Labour went from 0 to government between 1908 and 1924. It could happen again more easily than you seem to think.

  6. M Peck
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Sorry, John, but didn't the English Democrats come third? And is not third in these particular circumstances quite a good result?
    And is not their main plank a request for an English Parliament to balance the unfairness of a Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly (surely soon to be a full blown pariament), rather than an overtly 'Eurosceptic' view? Somehow you fail to mention this.
    I don't normally disagree with you about much, but to attack them when they are trying to speak for England, something MP's seem remarkably reluctant to do (yes, I include Conservatives), seems wrong to me!

  7. tally
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    The main plank of the English Democrats is an English Parliament,something that David Davis was in favour of until he had to follow Cameron's orders. Now it's English pauses for English clauses. The English Democrats are offering a referendum on the EU as well. Why have you followed the beeb line that they are only about the EU?

    Reply: I have not followed the BBC line – I have read the policy positions of the ED

  8. Ken Adams
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    That is one perspective, however the other is equally relevant and revolves around the basic claim that Mr Davis or the Conservative party are EUsceptic, if they are then I am one who is still awaiting some solid proof that goes beyond empty gossip.

    There is also the point that “The English Democrats believe that this country should leave the EU and will campaign forcefully to that end.” They also believe there should be an English Parliament.

    Neither of which are Conservative policy – if they were, you might have a point – but as it stands all Mr Cameron is offering the voters is a continuation of present policies regarding the EU and a fudge on the issue of democracy for England within the UK. Conservatives policies on both of these issues will not solve the problems.

    Nobody should be hoodwinked by a party which claims to be EUscpetic but in reality offers no viable alternative to full membership and asks us to accept the unreasonable idea that central EU and the other states will roll over reverse the inbuilt trend for political integration and allow a nice Mr Cameron to have a few sweeties. Even if they were to do so, we would still be a full member of a union that is destined to become a fully federal state. Two speed EU is

    If the Conservatives wish to stand on a platform of EUscepticsism they will be required to offer a real alternate way forward. We are waiting!

  9. Ken Adams
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Sorry!

    Two speed Europe as its name implies means we will travel at different speeds to the same destination, which is not much comfort to those who do not want to travel to that destination.

    Reply: Which is exactly why some of us have to wish to be in a two speed Europe, but want a different deal for the UK.

  10. wonkotsane
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    The EDP are, first and foremost, about getting an English Parliament. Euroscepticism is secondary and comes mostly from the fact that the EU is responsible for balkanising England into their artificial regions.

    The thing is, John, unless you are seriously hankering after a two-party electoral system like that in the US, you're always going to get some minority party taking votes from one of the big parties and why not? Did David Davis stand on a manifesto of withdrawing from the EU and establishing an English Parliament like the one the Scots have got? The answer is no.

    David Davis used to support an English Parliament until he stood against David Camoron for the leadership of the part and was told that it would damage his chances because there are so many Conswervatives under the mistaken impression that treating England equally to Scotland will break up the union.

    There were a record number of candidates in this by-election. The EDP – who I don't support, in case you're wondering – were only one opponent. The Greens have an agenda that crosses into the "green" Conswervative agenda so why are you not criticising them for standing when the Tories are banging the eco-terrorist drum?

    If the Tories feel threatened by the slow but steady increase in support for the EDP then perhaps you should be asking yourselves why people are voting for a party that promises to leave the EU and treat them as equals with the Celts instead of a party that promises to stay in the EU against the wishes of the majority and that thinks the best way to solve the unfair system of Scottish MPs voting on English matters is to let them carry on voting on English matters but stop them from debating it first.

    Reply: The polls show we are not threatened by the EDs or UKIP, but they do show that in the odd Labour marginal the EDs and UKIP can help keep a federalist Labour MP in office.

  11. Helen Wright
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    David Ike is even more anti-Big Brother than DD. Are we to assume that the little support he received was a reflection on how little the electorate regards our civil liberties?

  12. Ed Abrams
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    i suggest you look after your own house Mr Redwood and don't worry about the English Democrats. We stand because like Nu Labour and the Fib Dems, you and your party discriminate against all of us who live in England.
    If you really are as passionate about England as you say you are then you'd give up being a career politican and stand for what you actually believe in.
    You hide behind the curtain of the big 3, you know about our people dying because they can't get certain drugs, you know that our old folk are being herded like sheep into care home and foreced to pay for it, you know that the hard working people of England have to pay £7.10 for their perscriptions and yet you do nothing about it.
    The English Democrats are changing the face of today's politics, we have a mountain to move but because NONE of us can be brought because we do all that we do because we love our nation and not for personal gain unlike many a professional politican who sits within the halls of westminster.
    So, you worry about your own house and we'll get on with saving ENGLAND and her people because you obviously done give a damm.

    Ed Abrams

    Reply: There is no need to resort to personal abuse. I do work hard for justice for my constituents and for England. The first thing you need to help people is a vote in the Commons. The EDs have none.

  13. Wyrdtimes
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    As far as I can tell this by-election was nothing to do with the EU. Did David Davis even mention it? As for the Conservative Party, they look to me like they are more pro-EU than anti! Where is the Tory commitment to an in-out referendum? The English Democrats support such a referendum.

    The English Democrats were right to stand.

    The English Democrats made it clear that the freedoms Mr Davis has been campaigning on are English in origin – not British.

    The English Democrats stand for an English Parliament, David Davis and the Conservatives don't. The English Democrats stand for England, David Davis and the Conservative party don't.

    As for the BBC, who would expect anything else from the British Brainwashing Corps? After all, they are Labour's official propaganda division.

  14. Derek
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Errr I didn't think the English Democrats candidate lost her deposit John. Only 3 candidates out of 26 saved their deposits Tory, Green and English Democrat!
    The main policy of the English Democrats is an English Parliament. Remember David Davis's paper arguing in favour of an EP? He seemed to change his mind when he was standing in the leadership election!
    Do you also remember how Labour were the leading party in Scotland until the SNP arrived? Perhaps the Tories should start looking over their shoulders at the EDP.

  15. Robert
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Sadly John, as ever both DD and DC have not shown any real resilience on the EU, but have continued the tokenism that the Tory party has offered for the last 20 plus years on the question of our relationship with the EU. As a whip, DD during the Maastricht Treaty did his duty to his party but not his to his country! Sadly, the there is a high correlation between growth of EU laws and regulations that rule us and the reduction in our civil liberties that he so obviously cares about. Methinks he has not be consistent. Politicians of all persuasions often fall prey to the law of unintended consequences.

  16. Michel S.
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    In this case, as it turns out, the EngDems did /not/ lose their deposits. The motivation seems clear to me: a high-profile by-election without Labour and LibDem competition = best-ever (losing) result. The recount due to the near-tie with the Greens for 2nd only helps.

    Insofar as Euroskeptism is concerned, they have done no harm; while as far as self-promotion and English devolution is concerned, they gained. It even helps David Davis — what would it mean if only one other candidate gets the deposit back?

  17. Ian Campbell
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    The EDP stood, John, because they are not Conservatives and so entitled to contest any seat they wish. Too bad if it splits the vote – that's our version of democracy.
    The EDP only exists because the Conservative Party (with honourable exceptions) refuses to recognise England as a nation. Why don't those Conservative MPs who support an English Parliament (in some form or other) and those 1 in 5 prospective MPs who are reported to do so form a cross party alliance with similarly minded MPs in the Labour and Lib-Dem Parties to campaign for fair democratic representation for England? You might then be entitled to ask the EDP not to contest those seats.

  18. The Secret Person
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    I think they were mentioned by the BBC because they were one of only three parties who retained their deposit (with the Tories and Greens). Maybe if Davis had re-iterated support for an English parliament (he has written on it before) which is a much more important policy to the Eng Dems than their Euroscepticism, they wouldn't have stood.

    It was actually a very good result for them. 7.2% compared to 0.4% and below the Monster Raving Loonies in Henley. Ok they wouldn't have got that if a full slate had stood, but they weren't just taking votes off UKIP and the BNP, gaining more than those two put together at the last election.

    You are completely right that David Davis is very close to ED on most issues, but they didn't damage his campaign and I think will view the result as a success. Hopefully it will raise attention for the cause of a fair settlement for England, and push on to be thought of as a party worth a vote in non FPTP elections.

  19. A Ellis
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    David Davis may not be a euro federalist, but your party certainly is, as well as being anti English,ask Ken give Brussels all the power Clark.
    You don't get it do you John, we have spotted the deception. Whoever is in opposition becomes the Euro sceptic party until they are elected, then it all goes quiet while yet more of our hard won sovereignty is handed over, to what is now undeniably a fascist empire in the making.
    Sovereignty lies with the people, it was never traitor Heaths, or John Majors to hand over.
    Camorons sop to the public of retrieving some power back from the EU is just not good enough, only our own elected servants in our own legislature have the right to act on our behalf.
    As for Clarke's fudge on the West Lothian question, you have been interestingly quiet over that issue.

  20. Matthew Reynolds
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    On pay day at work yesterday there where numerous complaints about how much tax we all paid out of our wages – the moaning about tax continued today ! Not one person expressed the view that they wanted Labour’s spending plans to be stuck to as they wanted tax to stay high so that wastage could carry on at the present disgusting and indeed epic scale . That is why people either vote UKIP , English Democrat or stay at home because the bland Social Democratic approach of Tory , Labour & Lib Dem means that there is a pro- big government consensus in the Westminster Village meaning that those depressed voters feel non of the three main parties will ever cut taxes . The Lib Dems pro tax rise policies keep putting them third in general elections , no one really belived Tory tax cut pledges in 1997 , 2001 and 2005 after higher taxes under John Major . Labour said that taxes would not rise and then doubled the number of top rate taxpayers while doubling the 10p tax on the poor . People do not feel that they are getting value for money as high taxes force misery on households with already strained budgets . I suspect that English Democrat & UKIP support is a backlash against high taxing & out of touch politicians who appear to have little concern for those whose money they waste . Quite simply the Tories could cancel out the impact of the client state vote for Labour in marginal seats by telling those who don’t vote that they must vote Tory or the Conservatives will never win an election to form a government that will slash taxation and end the Brownite client state . In a close general election ( if Labour lose Glasgow East & Gordon Brown is deposed and get a better Leader like Jack Straw say ) UKIP & English Democrat votes could be critical in key marginals . With the Lib Dems moving right-ward on cutting taxation & wasteful public spending plans it is clear that is where the votes are . The 10p tax issue showed the rage in the Labour heartlands over high tax on the poor – the Tories could hoover up votes in places like Crewe & Nantwich at a general election by pledging no tax on the first £12,000 p/a for all taxpayer , no more jobsworths in QUANGO’s for an out of touch elite and no more poverty causing tax credits while Child Benefit could rise . Replacing IB & JSA with one payment designed to slash economic inactivity could help fund this too as could changes to Housing Benefit & Council Benefit to discourage long term unemployment while reducing the poverty trap those payments cause the working poor . The New Deal has failed the very communities that it was supposed to help and should be ended and a Citizenship Pension could slash red tape and poverty while rewarding hardwork & saving . This tough anti poverty agenda of major tax & benefit changes if coupled with the US style welfare reforms that Chris Grayling favours and Michael Gove’s neo-Swedish schools revolution would I think help the coping classes and the poor alike . Who on earth would vote UKIP or English Democrat if offered policies like that by the Conservatives ? By making people feel good about voting Conservative a poll lead can be translated into a landslide win at a general election – these policies will prove the Tory desire to fight poverty beyond doubt !

  21. Len Welsh
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    They did not loose their deposit in this bye-election nor did the Green Party, all the rest lost the deposits.

  22. Stephen Gash
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    It's because the English Democrats actually mean what they say about the EU and don't merely bluster like the Tories.

    Tories – took England into the European Common Market (under the most unbelievably stupid terms)

    Tories – Signed Maastricht (without a referendum) thus creating the EU.

    Tories – started the Euro-regional carve-up of England, re-gerrymandered and finished by Labour.

    Tories – gave the go-ahead for the channel tunnel that few in England wanted and has been troublesome eversince.

    Tories – bellow "no no no" sign "yes yes yes".

    Whatever the Tories are, they kid nobody about being Eurosceptic. The one thing David Cameron will NOT do is get rid of the regions of England.

    That's why the English Democrats will stand against the Tories because they know people don't trust the Tories. The Tories actually delude themselves that they are popular, even in places like Crewe. They are not and they had better wake up to the fact that without England the Conservative Party won't exist.

    Reply: On the contrary, the Conservatives will remove much of the wasteful unelected reigonal government. No EDs will get elected to Parliament so they cannot help us.

  23. Matthew Reynolds
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    On pay day at work yesterday there where numerous complaints about how much tax we all paid out of our wages – the moaning about tax continued today ! Not one person expressed the view that they wanted Labour's spending plans to be stuck to as they wanted tax to stay high so that wastage could carry on at the present disgusting and indeed epic scale . That is why people either vote UKIP , English Democrat or stay at home because the bland Social Democratic approach of Tory , Labour & Lib Dem means that there is a pro- big government consensus in the Westminster Village meaning that those depressed voters feel non of the three main parties will ever cut taxes . The Lib Dems pro tax rise policies keep putting them third in general elections , no one really belived Tory tax cut pledges in 1997 , 2001 and 2005 after higher taxes under John Major . Labour said that taxes would not rise and then doubled the number of top rate taxpayers while doubling the 10p tax on the poor . People do not feel that they are getting value for money as high taxes force misery on households with already strained budgets . I suspect that English Democrat & UKIP support is a backlash against high taxing & out of touch politicians who appear to have little concern for those whose money they waste . Quite simply the Tories could cancel out the impact of the client state vote for Labour in marginal seats by telling those who don't vote that they must vote Tory or the Conservatives will never win an election to form a government that will slash taxation and end the Brownite client state . In a close general election ( if Labour lose Glasgow East & Gordon Brown is deposed and get a better Leader like Jack Straw say ) UKIP & English Democrat votes could be critical in key marginals . With the Lib Dems moving right-ward on cutting taxation & wasteful public spending plans it is clear that is where the votes are . The 10p tax issue showed the rage in the Labour heartlands over high tax on the poor – the Tories could hoover up votes in places like Crewe & Nantwich at a general election by pledging no tax on the first £12,000 p/a for all taxpayer , no more jobsworths in QUANGO's for an out of touch elite and no more poverty causing tax credits while Child Benefit could rise . Replacing IB & JSA with one payment designed to slash economic inactivity could help fund this too as could changes to Housing Benefit & Council Benefit to discourage long term unemployment while reducing the poverty trap those payments cause the working poor . The New Deal has failed the very communities that it was supposed to help and should be ended and a Citizenship Pension could slash red tape and poverty while rewarding hardwork & saving . This tough anti poverty agenda of major tax & benefit changes if coupled with the US style welfare reforms that Chris Grayling favours and Michael Gove's neo-Swedish schools revolution would I think help the coping classes and the poor alike . Who on earth would vote UKIP or English Democrat if offered policies like that by the Conservatives ? By making people feel good about voting Conservative a poll lead can be translated into a landslide win at a general election – these policies will prove the Tory desire to fight poverty beyond doubt !

  24. Colin Baker
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood

    Regrettably you have clearly been a politician too long. Most people in England are not interested in party political things, they are interested in England, the country that taught them tye true meaning of freedom, liberty and understanding was (all of which now has been destroyed by newcomers like Michael Howard, when he was Home Secretary, and succesive Labourites since in the same mould).

    I personally believe Parties are the worst thing that has happened to English politics, as it stifles any MP's personal considerations for his or hers electoral voters, in favour of the Leader's personal ambitions. In Germany they used to call that Leader Fuhrer, which introduces a totally new dimension if you think of it in that context.

    David Cameron is gaining popularity simply because he is not Gordon Brown. But he is the leader (Fuhrer) of the Conservative Party.

    So, do you think the people of England deserve their own parliament, as the EDP advocates and the Scots have been given, and will you be willijng to stand alongside David Davis and openly fight Cameron to protect the security and freedom of the English?

  25. Ken Stevens
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    Actually we didn't lose our deposit at Haltemprice. We came third.

    Taking your general point though, given the peculiar circumstances of that particular by-election, I "waste" my subscription and my vote because the Tories are no more reliable in defending us against political absorption into the EU than Lab or LibDem. Tories talk the talk, depending on mood on any particular day, but rather wobble the walk.

    – Similarly as regards the democratic imbalance between England and other UK territories, with the added factor that anyone voicing concern in this respect is derided as a sour little Englander.

    Given that in those two fundamental matters no electable party offers prospects of improvement, whilst other policies tend to be modest variations around centrist themes, it is not vitally important which party gets into power. Therefore, whilst in other respects I would be a staunch Tory voter, I put country before party.

    Do bear in mind that the SNP were once a "loony" party. Wonder whatever happened to them?

  26. david morris
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    A pedant writes.

    I might take your blog more seriously if there was evidence of sub-editing. Come on, you can do better…………..

  27. mikestallard
    Posted July 11, 2008 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    I've just read a short article on President Buchanan who lived through the years immediately preceding the Civil War. He was a decent chap and did his best in a situation which, at the beginning at least, looked pretty manageable.
    I am not at all sure that the EU isn't the same kind of storm blowing up as the problems of slavery: there seems to be the same sort of entrenched attitude on both sides.
    Your comments, of course, are spot on.

  28. Barry (The Elder)
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 12:02 am | Permalink

    What is it with the Conservatives? would be a better question. There is an open goal in playing the English card but no 'could not do that old boy were unionists' at least the EDP are attempting to get the message across about the disparity of England having no Parliament, all we get from the likes of David Davis and John Redwood is lip service, the EDP are standing up for democracy for England unlike KC (Kenneth Clarke) and his not so sunshine band the Democracy Task Force (DTF), having spent nigh on 3 years in discussion all KC could come up with is a tinkering with parliamentary proceedure that still does not satisfy the need of the people of England to vote for thier own parliament, infact not one word in the document the DTF produced mentions the word democracy. And whats the betting that if the Tories win a landslide election the proposals by the DTF will be dropped

  29. Colin Ray
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    What on earth are you talking about, Mr. Redwood? The English Democrats did not lose their deposit, having more than 5% of the threshold.

    And exactly what did this bye-election have to do with the European Union or the alleged Euro-scepticism of some members of the Conservative Pary?

    I assumed that Mr. Davis resigned his seat and forced the election over the government's plans to introduce a 42 day detention period for suspected terrorists, thus mounting a major assault on our civil liberties.

    Perhaps the English Democrats did well out of the recorded votes because many people in the consituency remembered that Mr. Davis once publically supported the notion for an English Parliament and then decided, for political expediency at the time, to follow his party's opposition. As did you!

    The electorate do not ask too much of their politicians. They are sensible enough to realise that they are also human, however, we demand veracity.

  30. Jim Gash
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Well done David Davis for making a stance for freedom and democracy. It's a pity more mp's fail to take the same line as he has done.
    Time for a new political party. Maybe the "Magna Carta Party" should be formed. At least it would be a party that would think of England.

  31. Ed Abrams
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood

    You talk about being anti EU but wasn't it your party that took us in in the first place, wasn't it Maggie and then Major who signed away powers to the EU, isn't your party that has come out and said that they see little point on an EU referendum

    I think it is, it's the PRO-EU Tory party.

    See the big 3 have had it so good for so long, you think that westminster is your club, that a voter is your own play thing well it's not. We had just as much right standing in this election as anyone and we stood tall and proud for what we believe in.

    Davis is a coward like many of his tory pals, he has written about an English Parliament but like many of you, when the crunch came to come out and support it in the press, he hid, he hid because he put his own ambitions before his nation.

    I have to say that I despise you Tories even more than Labour, why because many of you agree with what the English Democrats are saying but you haven't got the cuts to come out in public and say it, at least with Nu Labour, they are open about their FINAL SOLUTION FOR ENGLAND

    Reply: It was the British people who voted Yes in 1975. It has been the Conservative party for the lats decade that has voted against all the federalist measures of the new Treaties.

  32. Stephen Gash
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    I see my post was censored as usual.

    The Tories bluster about the EU, but are the party which have single-handedly caused all our problems with the EU.

    By the way the present problems with Bradford and Bingley and the rest of the financial services industry are the fault of the Tories because they deregulated the industry.

    The Tories also privatised the energy industry and look where we are now.

    Reply: What nonsense! The banking system has been damaged by Labour's incompetent regulation and management of the money markets. The federalist agenda has been pushed throuh by Lib/Labs against Conservative wishes and votes.

  33. Barry
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    The EDs are separatists though they aren't honest enough to admit to it and are in league with the devil ie the SNP. They only done well in this by-election because of two out of the three major parties didn't contest it and for the fact the BNP and UKIP didn't either. If the latter two parties had stood, then it is very likely the ED's wouldn't have polled anywhere near as well. The next time a 'normal' by-election comes around I am confident their support will plummet again to its normal level as demonstrated in Henley-On-Thames where they came behind the BNP and UKIP.

    I just wish the Conservative and UNIONIST Party would oppose devolution as it is causing all kinds of trouble and the Conservative Party's warnings about it are coming true. This is one policy John Major was right about.

  34. Stephen Gash
    Posted July 12, 2008 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Barry, the English Democrats have a policy of holding referenda on constitutional changes. This does not rule out a referendum on England's independence, but the evidence does not show any real support for it yet. However, there is real and consistent support for an English Parliament which is not merely ignored by the three main parties but actively stifled.
    The Tories would win a general election by a landslide if they offered a referendum on an English Parliament.
    Instead they choose to point the finger at Brown for being undemocratic about the Lisbon Treaty. A tad hypocritical in my opinion.
    John, I will believe the Tories will get rid of the regions in England when I see it. My personal belief is that the Tories signed up to England's regional carve-up in the Maastricht Treaty, or some other.

    Reply: This Conservative did no such thing, and I believe I speak for the overwhelming majority of Conservatives in wishing to sweep aside unelected regional government.

  35. Zenobia
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 4:12 am | Permalink

    I have voted conservative at every election I have voted in, but never again. I agree with the overwhelming support for the establishment of an English Parliament.

    I cannot believe that a party I once supported and (forgive my naivity) believed in can be so arrrogant as to expect the English to live with gross discrimination, just for the retention of a Union that most would be happy to see the end of.

    As others have said – if the Conservative Party would face up to the democratic deficit under which the English suffer – and support the notion of equal devolution – that is an English Parliament with the same powers for legislation as the Scottish Parliament – then they would win the next election in their own right, rather than as a result of the protest vote against a highly unpopular Labour parthy.

    You claim that "no EDs will get elected to Parliament …" – are you sure? Are you absolutely sure? As more and more of us become more and more disenchanted with your party's intransigence … is it not possible that you could be wrong? I have read the ED manifesto and its vehement support of a English Parliament has won me – so there's one vote the Conservative Pary has lost.

  36. wonkotsane
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    "Reply: This Conservative did no such thing, and I believe I speak for the overwhelming majority of Conservatives in wishing to sweep aside unelected regional government."

    The majority of Conswervatives are also eurosceptics but the eurofederalist few at the top ensure that party policy says that we will remain in the EU if the Conswervatives get elected. I can dig out a quote from my local paper if anyone's interested where David Camoron says that he doesn't want us out of the EU, he wants to reform it (which is impossible) and be at the heart of the EU.

    What the majority of the party wants doesn't matter because the leadership is anti-English, pro-EU and anti-democracy.

  37. Ken Stevens
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,

    Does any of the foregoing modify your views on the subject of English Democrats?

    After all, your original tirade only dealt with the EU aspect, yet that is not the ED's "Unique Selling Point". An English parliament is what differentiates ED significantly from UKIP; it's a sort of UKIP plus a bit.

    Will you be as other mainstream politicians and either belittle/ignore calls for correction of the democratic deficit or else think that a little sop such as EVEL might be just enough to defer the subject for a while?

  38. James Matthews
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    As others have pointed out the USP of the English Democrats is the establishment of an English Parliament. We have just had Ken Clarke's report which falls far short of recommending even English votes on English laws and is clearly intended to convince the English that the West Lothian Question is being addressed,while in fact doing next to nothing about it. No reason there then, for EDP supporters to vote Conservarive.

    As to Europe, the Conservative record on resisting european integration is only fractionally better than New Labour's. There are still plenty of europhiliacs in the Conservative Party, notably Mr Clarke himself, who will veto any effective resistance to the European project, so the choice between Labour and Conservative on this issue is the choice between becoming part of a European state and becoming part of a European state, but taking slightly more time about it.

    At the next election the Conservatives can expect to lose about 10% of their potential support either to the EDP or to UKIP. It could be the difference between a hung parliament and an overall majority.

  39. Derek
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    John you said

    ' Reply: On the contrary, the Conservatives will remove much of the wasteful unelected regional government. No EDs will get elected to Parliament so they cannot help us.'

    Not all of it? I hope the Conservatives are true to their word. We English don't want regional government. We want an English government to govern England.
    I have always in the past supported the Conservatve party, but I must say that I have little time for the present bunch. I will however continue to vote for them although I would vote ED if I had the opportunity.
    However, I've given up on the Tories under Cameron providing a real answer to the English Question. I just hope that, at the next GE, the Tories win a majority of seats in England, enough to give them an overall majority but that they are decimated in Scotland and Wales. This will hpefully hack off Scotland to such an extent that they vote yes to independence in a referendum.

  40. Cliff
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    John,
    Quote:"This Conservative did no such thing, and I believe I speak for the overwhelming majority of Conservatives in wishing to sweep aside unelected regional government."

    You may not have done so, and you may speak for the majority of Conservatives however, are you sure you speak for our leader? It seems to me, under "Cameron's Conservatives" only his opinion counts.

  41. Barry
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    Stephen Gash, I don't believe there is overwheming support for an English Parliament. Ok, people do moan about some of the side-effects of devolution and they are right to do so but I don't think they view your solution as the appropriate one as if they did the EDs would be doing a great deal better in elections and this would be on a consistent basis.

    Mr Redwood represents a party that still calls itself the Conservative and UNIONIST Party so it shouldn't come as a surprise to see that the Tories don't wish to see devolution extended. Personally, I think they should go back to their original policy of opposing devolution.

    If we had an English Parliament it wouldn't be long before people in the North would start to complain that London and the South East were dominating things again.

  42. Barry
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Zenobia, the Conservative and Unionist Party has the Union in its DNA and that is reflected in the party's name so when you voted Tory you were voting for the most Unionist party there is. It is entirely consistent with Tory traditons to oppose devolution.

  43. Robert
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    John ,
    The Tory's party over Europe speak s for itself , no more needs to be said ! I know you know the true reality of the situation, the 'establishment', be it Tory or Labour has convived over the European project for they both of them have not had the 'guts' to step of the the train. I have watched the Tory party try and ridicule and humiliate those who dare to speak the truth about the true consquences of what has been been done in our name by both the Tories and New Labour.

  44. Richard the Lionhear
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Quote:Barry, the English Democrats have a policy of holding referenda on constitutional changes. This does not rule out a referendum on England’s independence, but the evidence does not show any real support for it yet.

    The English Democrats ruled out an independence referendum at their party conference last September. Those of us that used to belong to the party campaigned very hard for the option for the people of England to at least have the opportunity to vote on the way they wished to be governed, but this was massively rejected in favour of their current federalist policy. They are every bit unionist as the big 3.

    Their last published accounts showed loans outstanding of £100,000+, it's an incredible amount of outlay for zero return on elected councillors or MPs. I think they would be better off joining the Tories and campaigning for an English parliament from within. However, I cannot see the English public voting for hundreds more politicians if they are of the calibre we currently have in the House of Commons.

    One of the posters on here criticised David Davis for towing the party line and going against personal principles. The very same person claims to support independence for England yet sided with the leadership at the EDP conference last year in the same way Davis has done.

    That is why politicians are so mistrusted in England. People believe one thing then do another.

  45. Ed Abrams
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Reply: There is no need to resort to personal abuse. I do work hard for justice for my constituents and for England. The first thing you need to help people is a vote in the Commons. The EDs have none

    Mr Redwood, i do not believe that i have resulted to personal abuse, just the stark and open facts.
    You like many of your pals in westminster state that you work hard for your constituents and for England – well tell that to the woman who lives in your constituent that is dying of breast cancer because she can't get the drugs or tell that to Mr and Mrs J Bloggs who have been married for 60 years and now have to move into sheltered housing and have to sell their house to pay for it – Please tell me how this is working for your people and for England.

    The Commons has lost the ear of the people it is nothing more than a talking shop whereby all 3 main parties work together to sunb out any other party. You control the media and the media controls you but the people of England are waking up, all-be-it slowly and we have had enough of the contempt that many of professional MP shows us. We are normal folk who are being shafted and we have had enough.

    You might have the commons Mr Redwood but we, the English Democrats are getting the people and the people will have their say and we will have our day.

  46. mikestallard
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    What the Liberals and the EU technocratic commissars are trying to do is to break down the nation states which they see as the cause of Imperialism and two World Wars.
    Hence the totally illegal Regional Governments, the East of England Minister (who she?) and, of course, the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments. Add in the enthusiastic touch of John Prescott MP and – bingo! – you have disintegration.
    My country – England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland – are under threat from these rapidly balding and wrinkling people.
    I don't like it. I am a patriot, you see.
    And I am not ashamed either.

  47. Barry (The Elder)
    Posted July 13, 2008 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    I notice John Rewood has taken the time to reply to some of the correspondence on this blog, but (no I am not jealous) no reply to my observance the Democracy Task Force not once mentioned the word democracy in thier publication, noting JW's lack of response I re-iterate my claim that JW abd DD only pay lip service, lest they rock the tory boat.

    Reply: It was not my work and it is not official party policy. The issue is what will be the party's policy, where I am more hopeful of progress in the direction we seek.

  48. adam
    Posted July 14, 2008 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    I believe the conservatives will work to stop further integration and then break up the regions.

    I support either breaking the union up and having westminster for the English, which would be in keeping with the way things have been going the past one hundred years or with removing regionalism/devolution to a suitable extent.

  49. adam
    Posted July 14, 2008 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    From a strategic point of view anglophiles are in a very weak position but looking tactically there are a lot of opportunities.

    This weird guy Sarkozy is the EUs new figurehead and he has a big mouth. He has talked about an EU army which has spooked people. A poll i saw showed only 12% support for a federal europe, stealth through lies is the europhiles best weapon, Sarkozy might blow it.

    The Irish no vote is also a great gift.

  50. Barry
    Posted July 14, 2008 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    I agree with Mike Stallard. My country is also the United Kingdom of Great Britain and NI and I don't wish to see it split apart. We must defeat the forces of separatism.

  51. wonkotsane
    Posted July 14, 2008 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    "I agree with Mike Stallard. My country is also the United Kingdom of Great Britain and NI and I don’t wish to see it split apart. We must defeat the forces of separatism."

    If you want to protect your union then you need to work on getting it all evened up so that the English get the same treatment as the Celts. The biggest threat to the union is the fact that the English are being treated as third class citizens in their own country. We are the last British colony with no self-government and run as a feifdom of Scottish Liebour.

    Why should English people die of curable diseases because there's no money left after paying the Celtgeld to buy life saving medical treatments the Scots get for free?

    Why should English people go blind from ARMD which is curable with a treatment that is available free in Scotland but which the English can't have because there's no money left after paying the Celtgeld?

    Why should English pensions be forced to sell their homes and all their posessions when they need nursing care when the Scots get it for free because there's no money for England after paying the Celtgeld?

    Why should the Scots have "the sovereign right to determine the best form of government for themselves" when the English are refused that same right? Why should the Scots be in the privileged position of having the British Prime Minister, Chancellor and other senior cabinet members pledging, when signing the Scottish Claim of Right, to put the interests of Scottish people "first and foremost in all our acts and deliberations"?

    Who speaks for England? John Redwood? The Tories? Don't make me laugh.

    (Words left out)

    p.s. What was wrong with my previous comment that meant it couldn't be published, John? Too close to the truth to be allowed a public airing?

    Reply I delete anything that is disparaging about individuals which might lead to legal action for the author and the site. I allow many differing views to my own to be published and have no wish to stifle sensible debate.

  52. The Englishman
    Posted August 23, 2008 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps other English Dems feel – as I do – that even euro-sceptic Tories are simply too close to Labour in ideology. The Tories sold out a long time ago and offer no alternative. Smaller parties are responding to that awareness and I hope, in time, they will grow. http://modernnationalist.blogspot.com/

  53. Doc Snoddy
    Posted August 24, 2008 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood
    It is about time that the last colony of the British Empire was set free. Free England and its people now.
    Think English. Think Englishness. Think England.
    Stuff the EU. Stuff New Labour. Stuff Lib Dems. Stuff any other party that is against England. If that means the Tory Party so be it.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

  • John’s Books

  • Email Alerts

    You can sign up to receive John's blog posts by e-mail by entering your e-mail address in the box below.

    Enter your email address:

    Delivered by FeedBurner

    The e-mail service is powered by Google's FeedBurner service. Your information is not shared.

  • Map of Visitors

    Locations of visitors to this page