Confirmation that there is no shred of democracy in the EU

The outrageous decision to make the Irish vote again shows the EU is thoroughly anti democratic. The Irish voted No, and that should be that. I hope the Irish vote it down even more heavily next time.

It also appears that there are changes to the Treaty, over the number of Commissioners. This means it should be put again to the people and Parliaments of the EU everywhere. This time the Uk government should honour its promise to give us a vote.

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13 Comments

  1. Posted December 11, 2008 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Good point about changing the treaty ex post meaning a legal requirement that it must be voted again by the British Parliament.

    I cannot see how they expect to get the Irish to change their vote. Ireland may now be in recession but so is the whole EU & the Irish will not be treated like children told to go away & work out the correct answer.

  2. Cliff
    Posted December 11, 2008 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    The Irish will have at least two votes; Maybe more if they say no again.
    I just hope that this attitude of Nanny knows best by their government and the EUSSR, will lead to an even bigger no vote.

    With the early signs of cracks appearing in European unity, let’s hope the current economic decline leads to the demise of the EUSSR project, as each member state shows it is in fact a separate country that wishes to put its own national interests first ahead of the EUSSR’s.

  3. Bazman
    Posted December 11, 2008 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Voting and voters huh? Does your wife agree with this vote or do you hide it. Absolutely disgusting! You should be ashamed. If you had a vote for a strike and that vote was carried unambiguously and unanimously. Would you need a vote to go back to work? Answers via this site kids. The lack of answers from the regulars will be noted. This is not a private ballot. Can’t touch this…

  4. David morris
    Posted December 11, 2008 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    So which way would Bob Spink vote in a referendum anyway?

  5. Posted December 12, 2008 at 2:19 am | Permalink

    Pollitics is a dirty business.

    We already have a Patriotic British Party in he UK which is Totally committed to total withdrawal from the EU and it’s not EUKIP.
    I strongly suspect that this Declan guy is being put into the public conciousness precisely because said party is gaining considerable support as British People begin to realise that the Leadership of all three main parties in the UK are all Pro EU.
    when Libertas start getting air time on the BBC and others then I will know.

    Western European Peoples have been sold out by their elites for the promise of money and Absolute Power.

    Vladimir Bukovsky warns of an EU dictatorship, ‘they are creating a new race of people’.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU

  6. adam
    Posted December 12, 2008 at 2:27 am | Permalink

    Conspiracy theorists proven right yet again. Mps and clueless journalists, with their media studies degrees, wrong as usual.

    Today is the anniversary of the hold a referendum protests in that debacle of a parliament. A fitting time to announce Ireland must have two referendum while Britain must have none

  7. Andrew Forbes
    Posted December 12, 2008 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    The most pertinent comment is that the treaty has changed, therefore all govts need to ratify it again. For example, if we’ve signed up to a common EU army (have we?), we signed on the basis that all EU members will pull their weight. If, now, one of them is able to duck out of defence obligations, leaving us to carry an unfair share of the burden, then that part of the treaty is not valid, if not all of it. The Irish are being given guarantees on tax independence. Do we not have the same? This is key; we might be under obligation on an area of tax, while the Irish are free to give themselves a competitive advantage. The treaty is not valid if it changes for anyone.

    Furthermore, it appears that whenever a country rejects a treaty, various sweeteners and opt outs are offered. Why, therefore, does any country sign up 1st time out? Surely every govt owes it to its people to get the best deal possible. What goodies would we have been offered if we’d rejected it the 1st time?

    • Robert Eve
      Posted December 12, 2008 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

      We don’t want goodies – we just want out!!

  8. Posted December 12, 2008 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    You will vote, vote, and vote again until we get the result we need!

  9. Lola
    Posted December 12, 2008 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    Warning! This is a rude one.

    What part of F**k Off don’t they understand?

    (You really need to be Anglo Saxon English – or strangely Irish – to really understand this)

  10. Julian White
    Posted December 13, 2008 at 3:51 am | Permalink

    I agree with the Irish Government. If the Government firmly believes that it is in the best interests of the nation to move forward with a constitution, then of course it should try again. It should reform its arguments, strengthen its case and put the matter back before the people.

    Electorally, the Conservatives will not win votes by being anti-European. Strong leaders, such as John Major (who unlike Thatcher didn’t dither about the place all the time on the European issue), knew that Britain could play a strong part in the European Union. Instead of being scared of the European Union, it’s time for us to let our businesses embrace the continent and start competing economically to be the best.

    John Redwood’s argument, with respect, is false. It’s like saying that if the Conservatives lost the General Election, they should respect the people and not try again. Politics isn’t that simple and politicians should fight for what they believe in, and communicate that to the electorate, but listen to the electorate at the same time.

    Reply: Fine – let’s have a 2nd referendum in France and Holland then

    • DennisA
      Posted December 13, 2008 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

      If there is common currency, common taxes, common laws, common government, you then have a state, the ultimate long term objective. Where then is the competition?

  11. Alan Wheatley
    Posted December 13, 2008 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    Come the run-up to the European elections, is Cameron going to tell us (again) which grouping the Conservative MEPs are going to join? Should we believe him this time?

    Reply: Yes he will. He has made clear we will have nothing to do with the Federalist EPP, and no Conservative will be able this time to stand on a platform of support for them or federalism.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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