Intra company transfers

I have been impressed by the detail and concern shown by several  contributors to my questions on the new system. I will send the evidence to the Home Secretary so she can consider it properly with her officials.

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24 Comments

  1. Posted November 26, 2010 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    Why is no one mentioning illegal immigrants and getting rid of them?

    Low paid, not paying taxes, occupying housing driving up rents, consuming services.

    Getting rid of them gives a huge benefit to the UK.

    Frees up housing. Lowers rents. Frees low paid jobs. Gets people on benefits an opportunity. …

    Forget the cap. That’s damaging. Earn over 50K (per migrant) and pay tax, and you are a net contributor. That should be the test. No recourse to public funds. Visa lasts whilst you work.

    • Posted November 27, 2010 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

      Err? Because they are illegal and we are not a police state?

  2. Posted November 26, 2010 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    The lower wage limit for Indians in the UK is about to become the UK minimum wage of £5.93 an hour , not £40k or £26k .

    Cameron , Hague and Cable have outflanked us , ICT’s are to be rendered obsolete in less than 30 days time .

    As of next December when the EU signs the “free trade” agreement with India which includes GATS mode-4 , Indian workers will be able to work in I.T. and accountancy in the EU as if they were EU citizens .

    John , thank you most sincerely . It’s reassuring that there are still a few good men and women in Westminster who are not trying to fob us off .

    • Posted November 26, 2010 at 10:40 am | Permalink

      I note that GATS covers all internationally-traded services except services provided to the public in the exercise of governmental authority and, in the air transport sector, traffic rights and all services directly related to the exercise of traffic rights.

      So that means in order to protect against a GATS invasion, something has to become a government service. Socialism in one clause again?

      • Posted November 27, 2010 at 7:59 am | Permalink

        I’d like to know what definition of “SERVICE” is being used for these International trade agreements .

        Why for instance is development of software not categorised as “manufacturing” or even “construction” ?

        Regulatory costs often exceed the cost of stamping out widgets or erecting structures these days . The categorisation seems arbitrary .

    • Posted November 27, 2010 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

      If this deal for India with the EU comes into effect it will be devastating as displacement of UK graduate jobs will spread into other professions to the same level it has with IT. With 11% of households in the UK now entirely reliant on benefits, just how much of the population does Vince Cable want on benefits with this deal?

      I often hear the argument that economic migrants are vital to produce tax revenues for aging work forces in Western Europe. But with the UK government spending on average 6,500 pounds on every man, woman and child how can ICT economic migrants with dependents be producing more tax than they consume if they are:

      – not paying NI for 52 weeks
      – not paying PAYE for 6 months with the double tax treaty
      – allegedly abusing the expense system given to ICTs to reduce income tax and corporate tax (18k per year per worker is allowed without any expense receipts having to be produced)
      – are in reality with the ICT expense system only earning just above minimum wage.

      It is a double hit to the tax income of the Government, both from the tax deficit of the majority of ICT migrants and the benefits that are required for the UK workers they displace.

  3. Posted November 26, 2010 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    john thanks please do form your own views and let us know what they are

    regards

    • Posted November 26, 2010 at 10:23 am | Permalink

      oh and its INTRA company transfers

      you may as well start using the correct term 🙂

  4. Posted November 26, 2010 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Ive just seen this publised elsewhere and thought maybe worth bringing to your attention:

    The ICT exemption was predecided, as it is indeed a necessity for the signing of the EU/India Free Trade Agreement that is being fast tracked, but kept effectively secret here.

    Although an EU Agreement it is effectively a UK/India Agreement, but conveniently out of sight of the UK public.

    Because the single ask from India in the negotiations, acting on behalf of its transnationals such as (named company), is for (them) to be able to bring temporary skilled labour into the EU (UK), i.e. ICT provision.

    In trade agreements, this access is innocuously called ‘Mode 4’.

    Once signed up, and now it has a green light, Mode 4, like all trade commitments is effectively irreversible.

    It is the dirtiest trick imaginable, the pretence of an immigration cap, when the main function of the process was to formalise the ICT exemption, along with keeping secret the whole agreement including the Indian Mode 4 demand.

    The EU negotiator has admitted that India will not sign up without Mode 4, so the fact that it is going ahead…

    The effects on UK workers will be very broad, across sectors, with cheap onshore outsourcing a big temptation for reduced budgets; (etc)

    Time to question liberalisation.

    (sentence left out which referred to a particular company)

    • Posted November 26, 2010 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

      Some useful GATS 4 background (albeit from 2005 and from advocates at Sussex University):

      http://www.migrationdrc.org/publications/briefing_papers/BP4.pdf

      It seems that the tactic of using Brussels to bypass Parliament, perfected in the Labour years, continues apace. Note the description of “Benefits for Developed Countries”:

      “In the richer nations there is concern that ageing populations with a more skilled and educated workforce will face an increasing scarcity of less skilled labour. In some sectors there is little alternative to using people, rather than technology (for example household services or caring), and as a result some demographers and economists see Mode 4 as an increasingly necessary way to plug this gap. Although much interest has been shown early on in the benefits that can accrue to each type of nation from the migration of unskilled or less skilled labour, in practice most progress on Mode 4 has so far been made in the areas of skilled and intra-corporate movement as it is easier to handle both politically and socially and there is a powerful constituency at national and international levels pressing for it.”

      (sentence left out)

    • Posted November 27, 2010 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      Any attempt to tighten up on GATS mode 4 or ICT will be met with tit for tat tightening up of the trade British companies , mainly Pharma and Financial , will be able to do in India .

      Any company which chooses to invest in India on the back of an EU agreement does so on it’s own risk because the British people have not lent it legitimacy by way of referendum . Such companies should not expect compensation if the British People decide to get out .

      The average Indian does not deserve to have our substandard parasitic financial services industry foisted on them either .

      It’s clear from Cast Iron’s visit to India that the British Worker is to be sacrificed for the benefit of… big business .

      The major parties are signing their own funeral this time (etc ed)

      • Posted November 27, 2010 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

        India has setup big lobby organisations to push the West to give them pharma products at low cost (they want the IP for free) and for the West to give them “green” technologies for free (they want the IP free)

        Their multi-dimensional lobbying and tactics are walking all over the West, you have to hand it to them

        From the point of view of countries like the UK we need to wake up quickly and start protecting out IP more strongly, and not taking all the lobbying from India at face value

        (personal ref removed)

  5. Posted November 26, 2010 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    the other thing i would love to know

    is why ICT visa holders here from India get the vote when Brits working in India do not…

  6. Posted November 26, 2010 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Thank you John. Please shine a light on this sordid situation. I am in favour of free trade but not uncontrolled access to our labour markets. And much British corporate activity in India is restricted by law or political interference, unlike our own “open economy”.

  7. Posted November 26, 2010 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m somewhat dismayed about the whole ICT debate. Reading all the posts, and following the debates in the house, there’s a clear message: There is an increasing number of skilled british workers out-of-work yet companies like (company named-ed) are being allowed to continue to bring in workers via the ICT route; the new rules look to be easy to sidestep whether it’s by replacing ICT workers with other ICT workers within 12 months, or them taking on new employees one day in India (for example) and sending them to the UK the next day as having ‘uncommon’ propritary skills.

    Clearly a major difficulty is in enforcing the meaning/spirit of any rules because the big companies will do what they can to keep their gravy train moving at the cost of British jobs and manage to pay little or no tax for the 12 months.

    Surely there’s no grey area here.

  8. Posted November 26, 2010 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Many thanks for taking up this important issue with the Home Secretary.

    Abuse of ICT visas has had a devastating effect on employment in the UK IT industry. A fixed cap with a minimum salary of £40K+, no matter what the length of the visa, with the removal of expense allowances is the only viable solution to stop abuse of the system.

    The UKBA don’t have the training or the staff to be able to:
    – Assess whether ICT visa applicants are truly high skilled and experienced IT professionals.
    – Stop rampant abuse of expense allowances.
    – Enforce the UKBA minimum salary levels based on job role.

    The exponential growth in ICT visas being used to displace highly skilled UK nationals is having a detrimental effect on:
    – HMRC with lower tax revenues
    – UK Plc with poor quality IT systems implementation
    – The tax payer funding benefits for unemployed IT graduates and experienced professionals.

  9. Posted November 26, 2010 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    “I will send the evidence to the Home Secretary so she can consider it properly with her officials”

    This is the kind of initiative that will keep regular contributors active.
    Sadly this government do not respond to the direct comments of those of us who take the trouble to contact them. We have many recent examples of Secretaries of State and ministers not having the courtesy or efficiency even to acknowledge correspondence sent in good faith for the benefit of them and the public.
    Perhaps you would pass this comment onto the Home Secretary and request that she asks her colleagues pull up their socks.

    You go to considerable trouble on this site to provide constructive comment on a wide variety of issues and to encourage the opinions of real voters. The government should look, listen and learn from you.

    Thank you.

    • Posted November 26, 2010 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

      Do please invite Mrs May or her colleagues – including Messrs Cameron, Duncan Smith, Grayling, Field – to respond to us at dynamak1@tiscali.co.uk

      Thank you.

    • Posted November 27, 2010 at 8:44 am | Permalink

      Essex Boys

      Agree with your comments.

      Good to see an MP who not only reads and replies on readers Website comments, but who is also positive and acts on some of those comments.

      Democracy is not yet totally dead afterall. Perhaps if we had more MPs operating in such a way it may encourage more dialogue between the masses and those who represent us.

      Thank you John.

      • Posted November 27, 2010 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

        Thanks seconded.

  10. Posted November 28, 2010 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    The council of Professor and Heads of Computing have stated that 26,800 UK IT graduates are required each year. The number of graduates has dropped from just under 30,000 in 2001 to 15,258 in 2007. (source: CPHC).

    In the same period visas issued to non-EU workers in IT visa categories increased from 605 to 14,860 (source: Computer Weekly).

    Given that the US, Germany and Japan have created huge export markets in IT software, why is the UK Government not trying to encourage our own given that we are looking for a more balanced economy outside of Finance?

  11. Posted November 29, 2010 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    The Migration Advisory Committee’s report on the cap specifically said this about allowances and I really do not understand why the Home Secretary has ignored it:

    In the context of limits on workrelated migration, consideration should also be given to awarding zero points for allowances under the PBS.

    Our suggestion to alter the recognition given under the PBS to often tax-free allowances used by intra-company transferees will help to ensure that such migrants make a full contribution to the UK Exchequer

    One of the reasons that intra company tansferees are cheaper than UK professionals is a combination of tax breaks for using foreign workers and the UKBA counting these allowances/expenses as salary (while HMRC does not).

  12. Posted November 29, 2010 at 1:30 pm | Permalink
    • Posted December 2, 2010 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      The Adams family arrive on a fact finding mission.
      Write your own better caption.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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