This site-II

I have talked today to the webmaster. He says it should be easy to place a comment, and argues that all you have to do is to log on with your name and email. The system does not permit you to log in with a simpler method as a regular, as he says that could impose more barriers through the need to verify.
It is quite true more than one person can use the same identifier as a blogger – e.g. Chris. I do have to ask for people to use unique identifiers, so could the various Chris bloggers use Chris 1 and Chris 2 etc perhaps?
He is following up on one complaint I have had by email. If you could kindly explain particular problems here in response to this post, he will look at the issues for us.

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75 Comments

  1. Posted March 2, 2013 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Webmaster.

    Please look into how to use Disqus on a web site.

    Disqus do all the graft and allows the site owner to impose whatever restrictions he/she want on pre-publication verification and authorisation.

    Douglas Carswell went this route and took a very sensible approach in my opinion.

    He initially checked all posts then put regulars and people he trusted into a white-list so their comments were shown straight away. This allowed people to reply and build up a lively discussion.

    If you have told Mr Redwood that people have to log on to his site to post a message you are misleading him. You can enter whatever name and email address at the moment for your post. You do not need to log on. You don’t enter any password to prove your identity.

    Disqus has all this built in – that is why so many sites use it (The Telegraph being the biggest I’ve seen and I bet they have more concerns about publishing and libel than Mr Redwood!)

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

      Sidney

      Disqus is not the answer.
      I used to comment on Carswells site and was on his trusted white list of immediate posters.

      Then Disqus decided it would not recognise me when I tried to log in one time.

      They suggested I needed a new password which I tried to register, but would not approve because I had already registered with my email and name.

      It suggested I use another name, but since I post in my own name, I refused.

      Then it said it did not recoginise me, but would not let me re register because my e mail adress was already registered with them.

      I contacted Disqus for answers and they suggested I change settings on my computer to suit their system.

      At this point I gave up not being an expert IT man, so I no longer bother to comment on Carswells site as it will not accept me, because whilst my e mail and name is already registered it refuses to recognise me.

      As in all businesses keeping it simple should be the rule.

      • Posted March 3, 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

        I’ve been through much the same thing at least twice.

      • Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:24 am | Permalink

        I hope you will keep this site open to allcomers without registration. I do not post on Discus sites.

        • Posted March 10, 2013 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

          I do not post on Disqus sites either. Indeed, I block Disqus completely so that it cannot track me from site to site.

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

      Dear webmaster, please DO NOT use Disqus. Also I suspect that to move all the archived blogs and comments would be a nightmare…

      The only problem this site has is the lack of persistent cookies, they need a expiry date that is in days, months or years, not hours or less from the time of creation – for example the current cookie for my Name Field is 02 March 2013 17:44:14 thus the cookie has died and needs to be reset (my previous comment was made at 17:41 in a previous blog). Before the server swap this function worked so it must be possible… 🙂

      • Posted March 2, 2013 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

        Just to clarify, there are two cookies that need have their expiry (‘die’) setting changed;

        The first is called “comment_author_” (this contains the user name).

        The second is called “comment_author_email_” (this contains the users email address).

        • Posted March 3, 2013 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

          I suspect the other cookies set need investigating too:

          _utma seems to be set to expire immediately
          _utmb has a short horizon of about half an hour
          _utmc expires at end of session
          _utmz has a longish expiry (next September)

          I reset all cookies before checking.

          • Posted March 3, 2013 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

            @Mark: No, the other Cookies are working correctly, assuming you allow their full placement (from within the privacy settings), but in any case none of these Cookies actually affect the two Fields in question – they are either analytic or mild tracking Cookies

            As for your follow up comment, I suspect that you might have more than one ‘session’ happening for some reason, don’t ask me why :), I have only ever seen the three “cc” and the two “comment” cookies since the server change.

        • Posted March 3, 2013 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

          I also notice that having posted the above, it appears as though duplicate comment_author_0cf0b57……. and comment_author_email_0cf0b57…. cookies are created (they have a long hex string appended to the cookie name that also remains identical). I presume these cookies must have some hidden (non-printing) distinguishing character.

        • Posted March 3, 2013 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

          I didn’t know that cookies died, I thought they just crumbled …

        • Posted March 3, 2013 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

          Refreshing the page again cause all comments pending moderation to disappear, and the later versions of the comment-author cookies likewise, leaving just the expired cookies.

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

      Whatever else you do, please do NOT go to the totally rubbish Disqus system now used by the Telegraph which breaks up the stream of comments into separate pages with 25 comments on each.

      For example, here:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9904270/Beppe-Grillo-says-Italy-may-soon-have-to-pull-out-of-euro.html

      At the present moment there are 1023 comments segmented into 42 pages.

      On one of those many pages there is my comment pointing out that if Italy left the euro then it would have to leave the EU, and no doubt that will soon be made clear to the Italians, and that although the Dutch Prime Minister has said that the EU treaties should be changed to allow a country to leave the euro but stay in the EU nobody of importance has publicly supported his proposal, not even Cameron.

      If that comment was on this blog then I could very easily locate it because all of the comments are on one page which is searchable in a single simple operation, but in Telegraph comments sections it means repeatedly clicking and scrolling down to go through page after page after page in very tedious slow motion.

      • Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:26 am | Permalink

        Agreed.

        Thelayouts of the Telegraph blogs awful.

  2. Posted March 2, 2013 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    Yes, it should be easy. Let’s see…

    Normally, my e-mail address is unique even though many other people are known as Rod. If the site displays a Gravatar icon to represent my e-mail address, then there is no need for Rod 1, Rod 2, etc.

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

      It was indeed easy, and the site does display my Gravatar icon to distinguish me from other people called Rod.

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

      @Rod: Except that is no use to man nor mouse for those using either text-to-speak software common to the blind user or for those using (for what ever reasons) text only displays.

      I know that it would be a big step but if similar user names are a problem then perhaps the time has come for a more formal log-in (yes, registration) system, it doesn’t need to be fancy, just enough to throw an error message back should someone attempt to join using an existing user name.

      • Posted March 10, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

        True, a Gravatar image is not useful for readers who cannot see images for whatever reason, but the question asked here did not mention readers who cannot see images, and I responded to the question that was asked.

        The lack of alternate text for Gravatar images is a WordPress problem, not unique to this site. Adding alternate text is not very difficult. There might already be a plugin that does it, and if there is not I could write one.

  3. Posted March 2, 2013 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    The problem I am having with your site is that it no longer seems to remember ones login details, so they have to be entered each time you want to make a comment.

    The downside is that if you send a comment and then close your web browser (as in pressing the X button top right) those comments still waiting for moderation are not then displayed when one restarts the browser again. Previously they did display, and one could add an additional reply comment, using the reply link. This worked because your site used a simple cookie.

    Now you have a complicated cookie system. If one clicks on the privacy setting it does not seem to matter which item one selects in the drop down, the problem continues. Pressing the lower right icon takes one to silktide.com who seem to want you to agree to being tracked by 5000 sites, which is not acceptable.

    Several of silktide.com cookies are blocked by the web browser with the normal medium security setting.

    Get your guy to go back to a simple cookie and forget this silktide.com tracking. Its my computer not theirs.

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

      Indeed

      “The problem I am having with your site is that it no longer seems to remember ones login details, so they have to be entered each time you want to make a comment.”

      That is the only irritation I have with it – that and the fact that no one edits my spelling and grammar and, once posted, I cannot amend either!

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

      “Get your guy to go back to a simple cookie”.

      Ie, put it back as it was when it worked OK!

  4. Posted March 2, 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Having posted my previous comment I decided to confirm my thoughts. It did remember my login details. Prior to entering the comment I clicked on privacy setting and selected ‘I consent’ then pressed that windows X button.

    Still one is consenting to be tracked by some faceless organisation rather than simply consenting to using a cookie to remember ones login details.

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

      Having just said that I had to re enter my login details to make this comment. Back to my original comment.

  5. Posted March 2, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    On some image boards people can distinguish themselves by using a tripcode instead of registering. Basically you enter a word and a program converts it into a tripcode which is displayed on all the posts. So if you don’t know the “word” used you can’t copy the tripcode.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imageboard#Tripcodes

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

      @uanime5: Yes but how many on this site post from internet-cafés or other public computers, also John doesn’t seem to check that the supplied the email address is real, thus anyone who wishes to stay anonymous can certainly get John’s attention even if the comment is not published. Sorry but your suggestion, whilst valid for some political discussion sites, seems to be a bit OTT for this one!

  6. Posted March 2, 2013 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Test – cookie reset, sorry

  7. Posted March 2, 2013 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    “I have talked today to the webmaster. He says it should be easy to place a comment, and argues that all you have to do is to log on with your name and email.”

    Yes this is correct. I had thought that the ‘Privacy Settings’ were not holding an input value between one visit and the next, but I have tested it now by checking the values of cc_analytics on moz_cookies (cookies.sqlite) and it appears to be working.

    What does not appear to be working is that as between one visit and the next, if a prior post is awaiting moderation, the site previously would recognise the name/email of the poster and display that post to him on a subsequent visit; this behaviour is no longer functioning.

  8. Posted March 2, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Further to my previous comment with regard to redisplaying unmoderated comments, it did actually do this when I went back into the site after leaving it and closing my browser and then opening it again; however, after I rebooted my system, the ‘Privacy setting’ were still correct, but the unmoderated comment was no longer visible.

    • Posted March 2, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

      …and the prior comment which was still awaiting moderation and was invisible has reappeared. (Posted after closing and re-opening my browser). So the problem appears for me to purely that after a reboot, the behaviour no longer works.

  9. Posted March 2, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    I am just testing to see if my picture comes up with my gravatar registered email account….

    zorro

  10. Posted March 2, 2013 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    Are we there yet? Can you here me now?

  11. Posted March 2, 2013 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    I agree that Disqus is the way forward. With the DT I am E mailed ( if I wish) with any replies that enable me to reply quickly ( if i wish) It appears to work well.

    • Posted March 3, 2013 at 9:44 am | Permalink

      My comment about the major inconvenience of the DT system, ie breaking the stream of comments into separate pages each with 25 comments, has not yet appeared.

  12. Posted March 2, 2013 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    No problem , but it may be easier to continue to tweet your articles as you write them,so I don’t keep going back to the debt / defecit problem to go to Home Page.

    • Posted March 4, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      blast I’ve spelt deficit wrongly again.. yes I agree with the commentor who asks for a facility to edit our comments.

  13. Posted March 2, 2013 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    I would like the opportunity to edit my comment before I post it.

    Other than that there is no problem at all. It is one of the easier sites to comment on and to be able to follow threads within threads.

    Your webmaster deserves a drink !

    • Posted March 3, 2013 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      Kevin, might I ask what you use to access this site, are you using a hand-held mobile device (with a touch-screen)? I mean, what is not editable about the simple and standard web page text entry box, or do you mean you would like to be able to preview your comment…

    • Posted March 3, 2013 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

      Electro-Kevin–Funny old world. I am totally Low Tech (and very content to be so) but the uninformed view from my desk is that this Webmaster fellow should be (criticised-ed|) because the impression I have is that John was persuaded to change his system given a mis-sold clutch of benefits of which I for one have not been able to detect one, and more important without his having been apprised in advance of problems and changes which seem never ending. The implementation was much slower than promised as well. The previous system worked perfectly from minute one so far as I was concerned. Sorry. I agree in advance that the issues are (Thank God) way above my head.

      • Posted March 5, 2013 at 10:34 am | Permalink

        @Leslie Singleton: The benefits might be pending [1], the benefits might be that the server is now in the UK rather than the USA as it was before, so from someone who is not a internet techie but who does have an understanding of both web authoring, web-servers and networking I feel that your criticism is unwarranted.

        [1] moving an established website to a new server, in a different part of the world, is a big step with possibilities for big problems (this Cookie problem is a minor issue compared to what could have gone wrong), it is better to get the site back up running as it was, that way one knows that the problem is caused by the server change and not software changes.

        • Posted March 5, 2013 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

          Jerry–On this subject I am but dust beneath thy chariot wheels and I can only give my view simply as a plain user that I had no problems at all (that I knew of!!) before but I and others do now. Did we have an American spellchecker before? The spellchecker we have now may be unchanged for all I know but to me at least seems more irritating and I would have thought that a patriot like John would have hated it.

    • Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      I agree with Electro-Kevin !!

      • Posted March 5, 2013 at 10:48 am | Permalink

        Deborah–So why are questions and comments and complaints STILL regularly appearing 19 to the dozen? What exactly has been gained? I am sure it is all a lot of fun for those who know what a cookie is. Did you know that biscuit means twice cooked in French?

  14. Posted March 3, 2013 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    I have never had the slightest difficulty in either logging on to the site or in posting a comment John.

    Please pass on my congratulations to the webmaster for his efforts and I congratulate you for the content of your blogs. Amazing considering the sundry other duties placed upon your time.

    Reply: Thank you

    • Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      Glenn Vaughan: “in either logging on to the site ”

      You log in to the site? I only once in the dim and distant past registered my user Id and email, I never log in. Where is the log in dialogue?

  15. Posted March 3, 2013 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    The cookie problem seems to result in posts appearing and disappearing from the moderation queue as seen by me (and presumably by you, since unless I manage to make a post visible to me as in the moderation queue you, it never gets published).

    That implies that the failure to set a cookie on my machine because of anti-virus rejection means that the post is labelled on your site.

    By way of example, you will see two posts that are near duplicates talking of Silktide problems and dating from yesterday that evidently were not visible to you (or to me this morning) that I expect will rejoin the queue as soon as I post this.

  16. Posted March 3, 2013 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    In your earlier post, you mentioned that you read the most recent posts first. This must be the reason why some of my posts, often timed mid morning, take so long to appear. I suspect others have noticed the same. If the webmaster can queue them for you in chronological order, that would help resolve that issue.

    I also complicate matters for myself by posting both from a pc and an android tablet using different email addresses.

    I should like to add my thanks to you for hosting this site, putting forward your views with such clarity and in responding to so many of the posts.

    Finally, the next time you bump into Mr Davey could you ask him the solution to the fact that the UK wind farm utility is currently producing 0.4GW or less than one tenth of one percent of demand? If he replies that a smart grid will transfer wind power generated electricity from Europe, he should be advised to take a look at the European wind speed map. As someone has put it, Europe is experiencing a great “still”.

    • Posted March 3, 2013 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

      John I would like to second oldtimer’s request that your moderation list shows oldest first. Even better would be if they were listed under their respective blog titles, this would allow you to choose which blog to moderate and when – for example you might want to moderate your most recent blog for an hour or so after publication, thus getting the debate going but then catch up with the previous debates. This should be implementable via some server side scripting, using the existing comment headers, blog title heading and posting date stamp, but it would depends on how customisable your blog software is.

  17. Posted March 3, 2013 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    test

  18. Posted March 3, 2013 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    test 2

  19. Posted March 3, 2013 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    Other than the new cookie problem, your site works very well with its straight forward comment layout. I certainly would not like to see it go over to Discus, which is more about tracking etc.

    An edit facility while in moderation would be useful, I compose my comments using a text editor with spell checker first, then copy and paste in to your comment box. Even with that process spelling and grammatical errors still do not become obvious until one has posted, but by then it is too late.

    Another useful feature would be a time/date stamp in the cookie recording my last access to the site. I find the problem having read say 80 comments, then going back later to find that there are now 200, is identifying the newer entries. Using such a cookie the new comments since my last visit could be highlighted.

    • Posted March 3, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

      @Tedgo: Re you last paragraph, yes I to can see the advantage in that but it would require a publication date (that could be nominally hidden, to save John’s blushes…) to be added to each comment upon JR “approving” it, not just the current posted date/time because otherwise any comment older than your last visit would not get highlighted…

      Note to John’s webmaster: Sorry but it’s been a few years since I last had to dabble with PHP scripting, so my terminology might be wrong

  20. Posted March 3, 2013 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    I certainly don’t like Discus, but other sites using it won’t recognise me with the same details and password. I’m not keen on the way it shows only 25 comments at a time, with your site I can scroll down the comments, reading those whose identity that I recognise if I want.
    The only shortcoming of your site is that one can’t amend a comment to correct a spelling mistake or HTML error.

    • Posted March 3, 2013 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

      @EP: Yes, an edit function would be nice, and up to the point the comment enters full moderation (not just parked), for example, when the other day when I had ‘cooled down’ I would have been able to save John’s time and my blushes by removing the offensive comment myself.

      Not only that but if there was a edit function “Lifelogic” could add to his original comment rather than keep replying to himself each morning after a new thought enters his mind! 🙂 🙂

      Also can the list of HTML tags, found below the text box, be listed to to include the closing tags? So that both tags can be dragged and dropped or copied and pasted like thus (I hope this works, there should be the strike-thought HTML opening and closing tags displayed) , which just then needs the content to be added, this might stop the odd unclosed HTML from being published of the server trying to guess were the closing tag should be.

      A list of allowable ’emicons’ would be nice to, still not sure if 😛 or 😛 is allowed or even work?!…

      • Posted March 3, 2013 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

        No the HTML tags didn’t show up 🙁

        Let me try this way

        Nice to see those emicons work, does this one :-/

        • Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

          Nor did those tags 🙁 One more try;

          Less the intentionally introduced white space, this is what the list of permitted HTML tags would be, thus both the opening and closing tags could be dragged and dropped into the comment, only needing the tags content to be added.

          • Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

            Sorry John, this is what I’ve been trying to post as an example of both opening and closing HTML tags, and if it doesn’t work this time I really will give up!…

            <code> </code>

  21. Posted March 3, 2013 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    This blog was posted 2 March at 1003. The first comment was posted 2 March at
    1429. The blog was then sent to me on 3 March at 1306.

    I have become accustomed to a 24 hour delay in receiving the blog, but why can they not be sent at the same time to all addressees?

  22. Posted March 3, 2013 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    My comments about silktide and anti-virus checker rejection still don’t seem to have made it through the system yet.

  23. Posted March 3, 2013 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    What a pity that you could not take this opportunity to get rid of the childish use of absurd noms de plume.

  24. Posted March 3, 2013 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    Update cookies

  25. Posted March 3, 2013 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    test 3

  26. Posted March 3, 2013 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    By jove, I think we’ve cracked it!
    I changed the JR cookie expiry to 2015, logged off from Windows and then on again, launched Firefox and voilà – it not only remembered my credentials, but also my unpublished comment too.

    • Posted March 3, 2013 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

      When I closed Firefox, and re-opened it to JR’s Diary, the cookie expiry dates had been set back again to this afternoon, and my credentials and unpublished comments disappeared again. I changed the cookie dates back to 2015 and credentials and comments reappeared as if by magic.

      I feel confident that your webmaster should be able to resolve this if she can set the cookie expiry to a future date, each time the site is accessed.

      • Posted March 4, 2013 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

        Indeed Bob, what I’ve been banging on about for weeks now…

        Webmaster, if I remember my PHP correctly, if you have access to the websites PHP code then set the relevant “setcookie” syntax to;

        time () +60*60*24*365

        This should keep the Cookie(s) alive for a year.

  27. Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    I’m copying my comments about silktide to you by email to your Parliament address, as they seem not to be making it through the system.

  28. Posted March 4, 2013 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    test 4

  29. Posted March 6, 2013 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    I was disappointed at your comments about the UKIP voters at Eastleigh. To castigate the 11,000+ was not fair. How else could they tell politicians NOW and not in 2017. Of all the comments that I read on Eastleigh, one that struck the biggest cord with me were those of the Chairman of Conservative Future. Ben Howlett said “politics in this country is broken. There needs to be a revolution of mavericks coming into politics…….. ” I agree and would like to see every Euro sceptic resign and form a new Party and get this problem sorted.

    Reply I did not castigate UKIP voters. I merely pointed out that neither UKIP nor Conservative voters got what they wanted – indeed they got their worst outcome, a federalist Lib Dem MP. The issue is how we Eurosceptics improve on this outcome.

    • Posted March 6, 2013 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

      …on Reply–Throw out Cameron (in particular for being so idiotically rude to and just plain wrong about UKIP supporters), tell the Liberals to hang themselves forcing an election, after which form a Coalition of the Right (and the right). Job Done. And no I do not expect a guarantee that this would work but it might and anything is better than where we are now–and it is the Conservatives that are the problem.

      BTW Jerry may know a lot about cookies but he knows less about statistics. Historical data about UKIP are almost irrelevant and to discount 28% (and I’ll bet rising as people increasingly see the worth of voting for UKIP) and saying that UKIP lost, so nothing else to talk about (when there very much is because UKIP did very very well on any basis) is a poor show.

      • Posted March 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

        @Leslie Singleton: UKIP have not won any Westminster seats in 19 odd years of trying, unless you can prove otherwise UKIP have lost every election and by-election they have ever stood in, those are the stark statistical facts – no wonder that UKIP are always trying to spin a lost seat into an amazing victory, anyone would think we are at a (politically correct) infant school sports-day when every child is a “winner”, not debating serious political issues. For goodness sakes, if the Greens can win a seat why can’t UKIP, unless of course UKIP are more out of touch than the party and their activists keep say the Tories and Mr Cameron are – perhaps the silent (other than for their cross on their ballot paper) don’t want out of the EU, or perhaps not entirely?

        The fact remains, the statistical evidence is that -not the spin-doctors wishful thinking, in 2015 those who vote UKIP will be electing a Labour government, no ifs, no buts. UKIP is not taking votes from Labour nor the LibDems (or Greens), the only place this UKIP support is coming from is the Tory core and floating vote, why can’t you and other UKIPers see this – but then perhaps you/UKIP don’t care, this being not about what is good for the country but about giving the Tories a bloody nose…

        • Posted March 6, 2013 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

          Jerry–Try and understand that the only thing that counts is the position and trend today and a judgement about the future. On your ideas the Old Liberal party would still exist because shortly before the Labour Party breakthrough 100 years ago they (Labour) had not won a seat for [pick a figure] years. 19 odd years of history. Can you be serious? Obviously the earliest 16 say of those are totally irrelevant now on any basis and (sorry but don’t have numbers to hand) I’ll bet the last three years show a strong upward trend after which as I say it is a matter of judgement as to what will happen next (very little ever gets proved in this sort of thing–need much more relevant data and even then we are just predicting the future with “Events Dear Boy” intruding) . Especially if a suitable cohort were to decamp from the Conservatives insisting on an accommodation of the Right we might make some progress instead of the stymied position we presently have.

          • Posted March 7, 2013 at 10:16 am | Permalink

            @Leslie Singleton: “Try and understand that the only thing that counts is the position and trend today and a judgement about the future. [../rambling rant cut/..]

            As such, and until UKIP actually manage to win their first seat at Westminster, the Greens now have more statistical chance of forming (or being a part of) the next government than UKIP does, your ‘argument’ about the National Liberals and Labour rather proves my point! The reason we do not now have the old style Liberals is because Labour started to manage to win the seats they contested – something UKIP in 19 years have so far failed to do. Also a mid-term protest vote has never proved anything, at the next election expect the Tories to once again come second in Eastleigh.

            Leslie, how is your left foot, it must really hurt with that elephant standing on it…

        • Posted March 7, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

          Jerry,

          Please pay attention to this because I get rather annoyed at the claim you made.

          I will be voting UKIP at the general election (unless the conservatives “lurch to the right”). While that will no doubt cause Labour to win , I do not see how my refusal to support the Conservatives can in any way be claimed that I support Labour! I will not support any big, nannying state that thinks it knows best! While that does not fit all MPs in the main parties, it certainly fits the current government.

          The fact that I am voting UKIP causing the Conservatives to lose is not “MY” fault. It is the Conservative Party itself for thinking it can annoy me without having consequences. I find myself not at all in line with the way the Conservative party portrays itself anymore, and so will not give the party the false impression that I like their policies.

          Redwood, Carswell et al are the people I would vote for. Nadhim Zahawi (who more or less agrees with Cameron) is not someone I agree with and so will not vote for him!

  30. Posted March 7, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    This is getting a bit ancient for comment. Jerry’s idea of “statistics” (hah!) that consist of a mere handful of voting occasions (now out of date and totally irrelevant) and ignoring all else is so wrong that it is not worth saying more–other that again it is simply a matter of judgement in the face of uncertainty.

    • Posted March 9, 2013 at 10:56 am | Permalink

      @Leslie Singleton: Just admit it, you do not like the statistics because they do not prove what you want to hear, the statistics are not mine nor are they made up, they are actual voting figures, perhaps if you spend more time researching such things rather than making up the next UKIP spin…

      I have said, once UKIP start winning (even one seat at Westminster) I will then (very likely) change my opinions, but until then I will carry on dealing in the facts as they are and not others dreams.

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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