The government does listen

At the Conservative conference last year I called for fair rules to limit benefit, healthcare and legal aid services to people recently arrived in the UK and those coming as visitors, in line with some other EU countries and the USA. (This website October 12th posting; Mailonline 8th October) Today the government has confirmed that it is working on proposals to introduce sensible rules to do just that.
This work was underway before last Thursday, so please spare me the contrbutions saying this has only happened thanks to the voters of Eastleigh!

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80 Comments

  1. Nick
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    You didn’t quite manage to say vote UKIP to get results.

    • Jerry
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:24 am | Permalink

      @Nick: What, and get a Labour government, why would anyone want people to vote for a Labour government-by-proxy?!

  2. Nina Andreeva
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Yes and who are we supposed to believe “cast iron” or the Romanian foreign minister?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9905956/We-have-been-promised-benefits-Romanian-envoy-insists.html

    If you want to continue with the neo lib economic experiment, despite the obvious of what happened in 2007/8, we do have an indigenous reserve pool of labour who can be brought out to work by incentivising them to do so through a withdrawal of benefits etc

    • bob webster
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 10:59 am | Permalink

      My local town Rotherham already has a (words left out-ed) community who are happily exploiting the loophole that allows them to register as self employed and claim tax credits and housing benefits. How many are actually economically active is open to question. This loophole would have been closed 2 years ago if this government had any real desire to stop unskilled immigrants (coming-ed) in from Eastern Europe. Cameron is totally committed to the the free movement of labour within the EU. If you want change vote Ukip.

    • Timaction
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 11:43 am | Permalink

      Almost three years into further misrule by your leaders and they are just talking about it! Unbelievable. (draws attention to large numbers of people emigrating, and to use of NHS by recently arrived people and visitors-ed).

    • Nicol Sinclair
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

      Nina – agreed…

    • A different Simon
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

      Nina ,

      That assumes there are jobs for our indigenous reserve pool of Labour .

      In almost all cases benefits are merely a transfer from median wage earners to landowners via the less well off .

      That is the objective ; to enrich the rich at the expense of the median worker via the poor . Economic rent . If it were not the objective the rich would sort out the underlying problems which cause a dependence on “dole” .

      Crassus pioneered the “business model” in ancient Rome .

      At least Lifelogic who has a different attitude towards these things than me actually builds houses to increase the housing stock .

      • Nina Andreeva
        Posted March 4, 2013 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

        Simon the jobs are there. Here in Bristol loads of Poles, Somalians and now Spaniards seem to find them without a problem. Is there something wrong with the indigenous white non working class or something?

        • Bazman
          Posted March 7, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

          They are young, fleet footed and intelligent or just plain desperate. Are British people able to compete with this and should they? How is a 55 year old man with three children in the north going to move to an area with high employment, live five to a room/ car and send money home as an example? The rest of the foreigners who are not able to come here for the same reasons do what the British do in their own countries. Do you live in tower or are you just pretending? (etc ed)

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

      Nina,
      I’m pleased that you highlighted the latest duplicitous mendacity by Cameron. The first line of the Telegraph article says it all: ” Ministers have given secret assurances to the Romanian government that migrants from their country will be able to claim benefits in Britain”. Perhaps our host will confirm what is the truth – the covert “secret assurances to the Romanian government” or the overt lies to the British people.

  3. lifelogic
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Well it have not happened yet anyway and it will only be fig leaf for Cameron to grasp to try to cover his embarrassment over uncontrolled immigration in front of the voters.

    Given that he is an EUphile to the core he will only do what his EU commanders allow, but while still pretending to be a EUsceptic.

    He is a closet EUphile when all said and done as is now clear to all.

  4. me
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    Of course, whether UKIP are polling 5% or 25% makes no difference to Tory policies.

    BTW if you’re in the market for a bridge I’ve got a bargain for you.

  5. Roger Farmer
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    The work may have started the day after you raised the issue, but noone thought to tell anyone until after Eastleigh. Perhaps a symptom of the metro socialist bubble feeling no need to involve the people, apart that is from when they want our votes.
    Simple solution, come to the UK with valid insurance and a credit card just as I had to have when travelling the rest of the World. Make the requirement part of their visa application at the UK embassy wherever they originate.
    I do not see it solving the social service’s problems when a quarter of a million Bulgarians and Romanians descend on our shores.

  6. Deborah
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    John, I hope you are right. If they are starting to listen and your lobbying has produced results, that will be good news. However, I will only believe it when we see some concrete action. Words from Mr Hague mean nothing at all anymore.

    Despite all the pre-election promises, since the Conservatives came into office things have got worse, not better.

  7. Jerry
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    All well and good but these rules, as reported in the media this morning, will also hurt those who are or should be fully entitled to such benefits [1], also is there any truth that we might have to go down the USA route of having a health care card on us all the time just in case we need to seek treatment -remember that health care treatment is not always something that is a planed activity- and if so will this not be a case of “Out with one ID card and in with another”?

    [1] fully tax and NI paid up UK born citizens who have chosen, for what ever reason, to live abroad

    • Roger Farmer
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

      Here is a radical idea. Rather than a health I/D card why not everyone have a computer stick on a chain around their neck, like dog tags but containing your whole medical history and of course identity. All information to be encoded and only readable and updatable at NHS facilities. If you do not like necklaces then put it with your car keys. This way if you have an accident or pass out in the street, the medical services would have instant access to your history therebye enhancing your chances of recovery.

  8. formula57
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Marvellous! And let us hope for the government’s sake that the people are still listening to it.

  9. Winston Smith
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    As we all know. this proposal, and that concerning the ECHR, will be full of holes and worthless. People just don’t believe LibLabCon anymore. The biggest and fastest growing election force is the ‘non-voting section’. Nigel Farage is astutely targeting these potential voters.

    The Conservative PR department is woeful. It makes annoucements after the crucial by-election. Plus, everyone knows there will never be a Conservative majority in 2015.

  10. Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Sorry, but I’ll believe it when it happens.
    Either the EU will prevent any restrictions on healthcare, or it will infringe someone’s human rights.
    And, in the limit, and quite rightly, most doctors won’t deliberately allow someone to die. One hopes that Stafford was an exception, although as reported in the media today, civil servants edited the Francis report to remove criticism of Sir David Nicholson.
    So these days I only believe things when they happen, not when politicians talk about them.

  11. Pete S
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    All talk and no delivery.

  12. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    How long has Cameron been PM? Just working on proposals now I’m afraid isn’t good enough. How long will it take to finalise? When will they be intoduced? Will anything actually be done? Too little, too late! Funny how same-sex marriage came from nowhere and was top priority and in parliament – oh I forgot, your EU masters demanded that didn’t they?

  13. Bob
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    “The government does listen”
    But to who?

    Who said that the most important thing in this by-election are the candidates?

    I’ll give you a clue, he’s not for lurching (although he might get some of his minions to make some vague promises of potential lurches).

  14. waramess
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Lots of talk but as yet, after two years, no action.

    I wonder if they have gone so far as to fix a timetable or is it possible the Tories intend to do it if they win at the next general election, or perhaps even the one after that?

    Camerons credibility with many voters has now vanished and there is little he can do to restore it. Screw your core voter and bid for the centre ground and you end up with just the centre ground and the left to fight for.

  15. Peter van Leeuwen
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    UK and Dutch government could join forces at EU level, in obtaining for EU citizens a 7 year “ingrowth” model , including for EU citizens, for social security (100% eligibility to be reached only after paying taxes and social security premium for 7 years)

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

      Nobody ever asked me if I wanted to be “an EU citizen”. If they had, the answer would be a resounding no.

      • Peter van Leeuwen
        Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

        @Brian Tomkinson: Nobody ever asked you if you wanted to be a UK citizen either. Such is the injustice of life. You are of course free to try and take up residence outside the EU or outside the UK 🙂

        • Brian Tomkinson
          Posted March 5, 2013 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

          I have a better idea than following your patronising advice – the UK should leave the totalitarian EU, of which you are clearly happy to be a subjugated citizen.

        • Posted March 6, 2013 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

          What a disgusting comment, we were born UK citizens, we did not have it thrust upon us against our will by a bureaucratic institution which then uses the fact that we are its citizens to demand power over our lives. We do not want to be free to leave our country, we want to be free to live in our country without interference from outside by people over whom we have no control.

    • JimF
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

      What rubbish!
      What happens if you’re a/ a child who could not possibly have worked for 7 years, b/ a non-working spouse, say minding the child of a worker/NI contributor, c/ a student d/ anybody else who would, under normal circumstances in the UK, have qualified for assistance due to being part of a British family?
      You either have a British healthcare system available to contributors and people born here, or you have a private care system. Anything else will be a free-for-all or riddled with anomalies like your idea.

      • Peter van Leeuwen
        Posted March 5, 2013 at 11:16 am | Permalink

        @JimF: In a family, the non-working spouse doesn’t receive a salary, right? So he/she doesn’t receive social security separately either. For students, different arrangements count anyway.

  16. Iain Moore
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    “I called for fair rules to limit benefit, healthcare and legal aid services to people recently arrived in the UK ”

    And what you have ended up with is Cameron restricting welfare from our needy so that he can restrict if from Romanian and Bulgarians.

    Rather that doing what is right for our country and people we have ended up with this mess, which yet again shows our political class are there to defend every dotted i and crossed t of the EU treaties they have signed, rather than what is in the interests of the British people.

  17. Tad Davison
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    This is the problem John, you’re missing the point, along with all the other Tories who continually clutch at straws.

    If they weren’t coming here in their droves in the first place, the issue would disappear entirely and thus remove the need for petty, piecemeal tinkering around the edges. The fact is, we can’t control our borders to the degree we would wish because this nation has been led towards the federalist super-state by successive pro-EU governments without any real mandate from the people they are supposed to represent. And our membership of the EU has self-evidently been an unmitigated disaster, yet we still belong to it!

    The EU still calls the shots, however you might wish to dress this up as the government resolutely listening and responding to the people. It’s mere tokenism. It’s like firing a peashooter at a nuclear bomber.

    Tad Davison

    Cambridge

  18. Old Albion
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    Nothing will come of it John. Cameron is an EU poodle.

    • lifelogic
      Posted March 5, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

      Indeed he clearly is witness the appointment of Lord Patten, the IMF loans, the pigis loans, the gender neutral insurance, the no retirement, the coming EU law on bankers pay. A good example of Major’s joke subsidiarity clearly a matter between the banks and the employee but to now be decided in Brussels.

      One assumes all pay will be set by the EU soon.

  19. Roy Grainger
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    “This work was underway before last Thursday, so please spare me the contrbutions saying this has only happened thanks to the voters of Eastleigh!”

    So you are saying the Conservative Party had no clue at all what the voters of Eastleigh wanted before last Thursday ? That figures !

  20. APL
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    JR: “At the Conservative conference last year I called for fair rules to limit benefit, healthcare and legal aid services to people recently arrived in the UK and those coming as visitors, in line with some other EU countries and the USA.”

    Good for you, now let’s see what Cameron comes up with. It’s early days for anything other than a pat on the back.

  21. Mactheknife
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    John

    Whilst this is good to hear, it seems to have taken a very long time to reach this point. There is of course the looming spectre of the Romanian immigration issue and whats happening to prevent this potential catastrophe ? Our social and health services are at breaking point and a further influx would do yet more damage. Can we not impose some temporary visa requirement ? I’m sure I read somewhere that when Spain went into financial collapse the EU gave them dispensation to stop immigrants entering….or was I dreaming ?

    Also whats happened to our British Bill of Rights ? I note arch leftie Helena Kenneday was on the panel looking at it, so I fear its all scuppered now.

  22. Paul H
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    The government is listening … yet I see Mr. Hague is reported as regarding UKIP voters as “indulgent”. No matter what the rights or wrongs of the UKIP position on matters of policy, it is totally self-indulgent complacency, and yet again insulting, to dismiss voters who presumably found a UKIP vote the only viable channel to express their concerns. It is certainly not listening.

    Is it a deliberate policy to insult UKIP supporters in this manner, in which case Cameron and Hague are demonstrating – to be blunt – simple political stupidity? Or is it mere social stupidity, in that they don’t realise their comments are insulting? Either way, I find it depressing that such people are running the show.

  23. Johnny Norfolk
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    The key phrase is ” working on proposals “. Is this another item to be introduced after the NEXT general election, IF we win. I only judge Mr Cameron & Co by what they do never ever on what they say.

    • alan jutson
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

      Johhny Norfolk

      Agreed maybe jam tomorrow if we get in, maybe not.

      Good that at least they are starting to think about it, but for heavens sake, only just starting to think when we have had a problem for the last couple of decades.

      Keep on plugging away John, soon they may realise that you seem to suggest the right policies on most things.

    • lifelogic
      Posted March 5, 2013 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

      Indeed and what he actually does is all 180 degree out. Occasionally he says the right things but what use is that?

      I want him to do the right things, even if he says the wrong ones. He has it the wrong way round as usual.

  24. Bickers
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    JR, actions speak louder than words. I will remain sceptical of the Government’s ‘promises’ about curbing benefits for immigrants until I see them in action. Ironically, it’s all a bit too late; (many-ed) of them are already here (enjoying benefits paid for by-ed) tax payers.

    It remains a fact that there are billions to be saved without significantly affecting front line services. The Government is still spending x 3 what it was when Labour came to power in ’97. Incomes haven’t gone up by that factor (certainly not in the private sector at least).

  25. MajorFrustration
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    But why has it taken so long and will it actually happen

    • lifelogic
      Posted March 5, 2013 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

      It won’t – not in any real sense.

  26. dan
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    to ‘limit’?

    how about ‘to stop the (migrants-ed) arriving in the first place’….

  27. Remington Norman
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    John,

    What is depressing about this government is that they only ‘listen’ to concerns when they are pushed into a corner. They offer little in proactive policy (except on education and welfare) and invariably put electoral advantage over the wider welfare of the country. There is much that could be done to deal with the absurdities of immigration, welfare dependency, overseas aid etc but nothing is. For example, you claimed some time back that extensive work had been done on a list of EU ‘competences’ which we should seek to repatriate. What has actually happened? Nothing. Why not?

    Mr Cameron talks plausibly enough but is short on action. He appears on this, as on much else, to be a closet liberal – trying to make the right noises while actually rowing in the opposite direction. His core instincts favour the EU against the evidence suggesting that continued membership is of little benefit to the UK.

    Long-term Tories (I am one) no longer trust the party either to implement core Tory policies or indeed whatever promises they feel like making. The fact that the right wing of the party is virtually excluded for policy making, until the demand becomes overwhelming says much. Unless there is a swift right-wing putsch, in my view the party is finished electorally.

    Reply The work on competences Conservative Ministers and backbenchers would like back cannot be government policy as Lib dems do not atreee. it is work to inform the renegotiaiton.

  28. Duyfken
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Full marks to you JR, but why hasn’t it already been done? One glaring example of the incompetence of this government is the way we are told ” it is working on proposals to introduce sensible rules …” or whatever, and yet precious little is actually done or completed (often interrupted by a U-turn). It is just promises, promises, and broken promises and nary anything of substance really achieved.

  29. Normandee
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Testing your personal credibility again John ?

  30. Dan H.
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    OK, let’s look at some dates, shall we? 1st Jan 2014, Romanians and Bulgarians get freedom to go where they like in the EU legally and their actual government thinks that they have carte blanche to claim benefits in Britain (note that he hasn’t said this to France, Germany etc). Next up, there’s a general election due in May of 2015.

    That’s 17 months for the UK to sit there and (may experience substantial-ed) Eastern European immigration that (could be-ed) be bigger by far than the last one. You know, those predicted 13 000 Polish workers who actually turned out to be over a million. Poland is a fairly developed, stable economy and those migrants were here to work; Romania and Bulgaria are underdeveloped, (etc ed) and the people with least to lose will be the ones who see Britain as the land of milk and honey and unlimited benefits.

    Seeing a problem yet?

    The Conservative Party has already been beaten into third place by a bunch of no-account upstarts who hardly figured a year or two back. This is happening BEFORE the electorate has felt any real pain from cuts (because they haven’t come in yet) and before (more inward migration by benefit claimants-ed). About the only real irritant was Cameron’s nebulous denial-of-referendum speech, and that wasn’t much of an irritant. Imagine, if you can stand to, what a seriously pissed-off electorate will be feeling like.

    This is starting to get dangerous now. The pound is inflating, the established political parties look like a bunch of arrogant, incompetent numpties, and there is a decent looking alternative party (quite apart from gibbering loons like the BNP). So, I ask this of the Conservative Party: Do hurry up and grow a brain, you’re going to need it very, very soon!

  31. margaret brandreth-j
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Sorry John I have been saying this for years, however it may be a good idea to make legal aid more available to a greater number of its British residents. If we want justice , we have to bankrupt ourselves or the criminals get away with it . Crime is allowed to go on unpunished and at the hands of those who fight for us with a bias towards the ones who pay the legal bills.

  32. John B
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    ‘Working on proposals’ is not the same as doing something. It allows the passage of time for the bothersome Great Unwashed to be distracted by some new faux crisis or scandal du jour to require more ‘Working on proposals.’

    Next, a new initiative.

  33. colliemum
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Thanks, John – but these questions remain:

    • Why is this taking so long?
    • Why is it ‘working on proposals’, instead of implementing these policies a.s.a.p.?
    A business run on those lines would be bankrupt already. Oh wait ….

    Btw – please do not fall for the threadbare ‘we’re listening to you (the voters)’.
    We’ve heard this for such a long time, from so many politicians, that it has become a formula for “we’re listening – and that’s all we do, don’t expect any results”. Eastleigh was not about ‘the government/politicians aren’t listening to us’, it was about ‘the government/politicians are telling us what they’re going to do, and then don’t do it’. It was about people being fed up with spin, with grand announcements of ever grander things which then never happen or are put into the category of ‘jam tomorrow’.
    The EU-Referendum proposals by Cameron are a prize example for this.

    Please don’t take my little rant personally – the sad fact is that you’re one of the very few politicians who doesn’t deliver spin, and who actually engages with us voters.
    So the ire meant for others descends on you, undeservedly.

  34. Jon Burgess
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    No question that you did write what you said and when, but asking us to believe that it’s just pure coincidence that your party’s leadership takes notice of you after a stinging defeat by the swivel eyed ‘racists’?

    Do us a favour!

    reply They started work on these policies before the by election!

    • Jon Burgess
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

      Well, maybe they were all too aware of what the result was going to be and wanted to look ‘Conservative’ all of a sudden.

      Either way, Mr Redwood it’s too little too late – and not just for me, I think.

    • JimF
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply
      If your party came along with 25 “nods” to UKIP policies you are still now behind the curve…
      Why back the laggard when you can have the real thing?

  35. Barbara
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Yes, correct you have mentioned this problem before, the real problem is nothing has been done to stop the tide of abuse in ‘real terms’, but now we may have an influx from two other European states the government as upped the stakes. Is it to late now? Movement should have happened well before this time; we should have seen tighter rules on health tourists well before now. All governments past and present knew it existed and have been slow to respond with legislation. It seems to me if we in the UK make waves against such abuse we are threatened with fines, and the EU law pushed down our throats.
    Its time, now, for Cameron to stand up and be counted, with sharpness and with vigour.
    Lacking that and accepting these silly laws that are coming from over the Channel will be his death knell whether he accepts it or not. Ukip have made an impact, and the more its publicised about the two states people coming here the more angry we will see people get. Cameron should therefore close the loophole himself and close the immigration door once and for all. If he fails to that he will lose even more popularity, and votes. People now know with assurance there is an alternative choice, and they will take that choice if Cameron fails to give them what they want. Keep blaming the coalition and the Lib Dems is flawed having only 7-8% in the polls they are nothing to worry about. Stand up and be counted like Conservatives usually do or be doomed.

  36. harry
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Immigration and Europe are only two of the concerns as to why i have turned to UKIP , there is still the “England” or so- called West Lothian question ,i heard somewhere that a commission had been set up(last i heard of it) it seems to have been kicked into touch again yet again,UKIP are listening, mine was not a protest vote it was a vote for policies.

  37. Sue Doughty
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    It used to be that foreigners using the NHS had to pay – there are systems in place to collect payment from their insurance or their home government. I was told that the Jamaican government pays immediately and the British government takes 3 to 6 months to settle invoices for hospital treatment. Asylum seekers do not get invoiced but most do try to pay back what costs were incurred by their temporary host country.
    But I met an American in Moorfields who was worried that he had not been billed. We should go back to basics, bill the person’s home government or their insurance, even within the EU. If I walked into a Paris hospital and got treatment I would need to hand in a form so the NHS pays that French hospital bill. We simply need to do the same, as we always used to

  38. M.A.N.
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    The prime minister apparently knew nothing of this today, with his statement about not drifting to the right in wake of Eastleigh. The libs won’t allow any of this, neither will the eu, so lets not kid ourselves here.

  39. James Reade
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    I wonder, do we expect that British goods can simply be sold, without any tariffs or any other impediments, in Romania and Bulgaria? Do we expect that we can go to these places and work without any impediment, should we wish to? Do we expect that British firms should be able to expand operations into Romania and Bulgaria without any hindrance from local governments?

    If so, why then is it fair to restrict those Romanians and Bulgarians that wish to come here and work for a living?

    Why do we want to protect lazy, incompetent British people in jobs that others would give their right arm to do?

    • Edward2
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

      James
      Are you really calling those decent and desperate UK citizens who through no fault of their own are finding it hard to get a job “lazy and incompetent people”
      I’m shocked.

    • JimF
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

      It’s a fair trade-off we can do without, thank you!
      Why not persuade the lazy incompetent people you refer to to actually do those available jobs by pecuniary measures?

      • Bazman
        Posted March 7, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

        Lets see how someone like you would last in Eastern Europe. Not long that’s for sure. I’ll put the same to you. How is a 55 year old going to move to another area and live five to a room/car.? Another (pwerson-ed) like James who should open a chippy in Africa.

    • zorro
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

      Your last sentence is rather judgemental and does not address the issue. The business and investment argument is red herring. What we are talking about is a country with a much smaller average salary than the UK. You are being disingenuous in comparing workers in either countries without recognising housing or family circumstances……. You sound like a die hard globalist with no finer feelings. If you want to represent the interest of the Romanian/Bulgarian working class why not consider a career change?

      zorro

    • Mike Stallard
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

      James – have you ever been on the dole yourself? Have you ever worked in a factory or call centre? Have any of your children ever worked in the fields picking caulis in the pouring rain in January?

  40. mart
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    “the government has confirmed that it is working on proposals”

    Excuse me if I declare myself unimpressed that the government is (or says it is) working on some proposals.

    • M.A.N.
      Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

      This kind of double speak will not work now, probably much to Cameron’s incredularity no doubt. Blair could railroad through socialist dictats because the economy was booming, this lot actually do think that we will actually support them directing thier loyalties outside of the country in spite of continual bad news on the economy. Ironic doesnt even cover it. Delusional maybe comes close, not one, not ONE concrete policy to placate Tory voters over Eastleigh. I can’t remember even Brown dithering as much as Cameron. He is a cardboard cut out liability.

  41. JimF
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Yes this does sound like a line from Yes Minister….
    Sir Humphrey: “Tell them you are working on proposals to introduce sensible rules to limit benefits to, ahem, recent arrivals”
    Minister: “But, Sir Humphrey, what will Brussels say???”
    Sir Humphrey “You are working on proposals, Minister, just working on proposals…. Where is the harm in that?”
    Minister: “Of course, Sir Humphrey”

  42. Mike Stallard
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    I went on the official Conservative site today and, yes, they are doing useful and interesting things, many of them completely unreported too.

    The real problem is this: the Conservative vote is split right down the middle. Nobody wants Labour back. On the other hand stuff about Gay Marriage and delayed referenda and cutting back the military and paying a lot of overseas people our money and allowing Romanians and Bulgarians in are not part of the deal for most people.
    Today down the gym I spoke to three people and each of them had a tale to tell about the immigrants.
    The top brass have got to do something quite radical (if they can) to unite the right. If they can do that in a couple of years before the election, they will walk it.
    Otherwise, what with the postal votes, the unequal boundaries, the 50% of the population paid by the government and the fact that the whole of the British Isles outside the South East seems to be Labour or Lib-Dem, the Lib-Dem/Labour are going to get in.

  43. Monty
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    I was very impressed by Frank Field’s article in the Sunday Times, (Section 4 page 4) “Bringing an end to something-for-nothing welfare”. He seems to have departed from IDS and the Universal Credit, calling it misplaced and flawed. Field is saying eligibility should be based on years of residency and contributions to NI of self or family member. He is to introduce a new Welfare bill to re-jig the criteria from needs based to contributions based, over a period of 10 years. Starting with the first phase which would apply this system to all new claims.

    I do hope you are planning to support Frank’s bill.

  44. Jon
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Lets hope so – a more balanced fair system for the UK taxpayer.

    There are too many righteous appeasers who would cause far far deeper cuts to our welfare paid for by us to please their wealthy EU ideologists.

  45. Electro-Kevin
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Thank you.

  46. Monty
    Posted March 4, 2013 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    test

  47. Posted March 5, 2013 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Is there any truth in the press reports that under EU rules of equality these proposals will have to apply to British nationals as well.

  48. David Langley
    Posted March 5, 2013 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    The deprivation of legal aid for plaintiffs who cannot afford legal advice and representation will place a great burden on courts. Very few can plead their cases properly when faced with the legal clique. Judges will be angry at the confused and ineffective representation from plaintiffs who should have a winnable case but will be overthrown by trained legal minds having a great day against the plebians. You get law in court rarely justice. Family courts will be a shambles as the emotional cases present themselves.
    On topic, I agree with all the comments above, please boast about the good things your party have achieved, the economic revival from the bust of the Labour years, etc. There is in fact much evidence to show the Conservative party in the vernacular is “All gob and gaiters” some would prefer to say all “Wind and P…” To get elected you just have to ask your pals in the party what on earth do they think they are doing wasting precious time and money on rubbish issues when we have our freedom and future on the line here. Do not lecture us on sounding off on our view of the Tory chaos and irrelevance.

  49. David Langley
    Posted March 5, 2013 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    By the way, Hague the vague’s attempt to list competencies we want returning is already a busted flush as the EU royalty is not interested in listening to our presentation let alone most of the countries who we would want to sign off on them. I am not aware of any confirmatory communications from the EU grandees that they are going to push this one. In fact the opposite is the current case.
    This throws the case for delaying a referendum out of the window. The only good thing is that your delay will provide UKIP with a bigger and better representation and local power base, and the public get a more informative education about the EU in the remaining two years of Tory/Lib misrule.

  50. David Langley
    Posted March 5, 2013 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    I thought I put a pretty good post on earlier and my later one is moderated and approved, was it something I said?

  51. David Langley
    Posted March 5, 2013 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Well its just appeared, sorry and profuse and fairly abject apologies.

  52. Robin Sharp
    Posted March 5, 2013 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    John

    Can you answer the question why is the Captain of the cruise ship Concordia going to be prosecuted for the 32 deaths on the ship – whilt the Chief Exec or the Cheif Medical Officer of the Mid Staffs authority not to be charged for manslaughter of the 1200 extra deaths?

    What does this answer tell us about the clarity of responsibility and authority in the NHS?

  53. helenjones
    Posted March 5, 2013 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    If the Government was listening it would HONOUR ITS PROMISES

    Cameron , Clegg and Osbourne all PROMISED to help savers

    Instead they have ripped off Savers and Pensioners to a point wherby we will all have to claim Pension Credit instead of our paltry half state pensions

    Has Osbourne bothered to get his calculator on what that will do to the welfare bill ?

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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