Apprenticeships in the Thames Valley

This government has been keen to increase the numbers of apprenticeships on offer. Expanding these programmes gets more people into work, and gets more people into better paid opportunities. 2 million people have taken advantage of this so far this Parliament.
Employers interested in developing apprenticeship schemes should contact as the Thames Valley LEP executive responsible. It can be a good way for a company to train and grow its own workforce.


  1. English Pensioner
    January 9, 2015

    The problem with “modern apprenticeships” is that we no longer have the Technical Colleges where the apprentices can gain the necessary academic knowledge to complement their practical skills. When I left work, I joined a company which allowed me a day off per week to attend the local technical college, which with some evening classes, allowed me to gain the necessary qualifications to become a member of a professional institute and gain my Chartered Engineer status. I don’t believe that I would have achieved this if I’d gone to University as I wasn’t academically inclined, but the work gave me the incentive to learn more about the theory of what I was doing in practice.
    Until we bring back this further education as an alternative to universities, there is no longer term route for these apprentices to move on to higher levels.

    1. William Gruff
      January 9, 2015

      Unless I mistake you, you’re describing the ‘dichotomy’ between the ‘work long, work hard and study when you are idle’ ethos of the English working and lower middle classes and the ‘do bugger all, expect everything as of right and turn in the minimum required to ensure your right to the trough’ ethos of the British ruling elite.

      1. Bazman
        January 10, 2015

        They work hard counting their money and providing employment I am told. You are just jealous petty middle class bourgeoisie.

        1. William Gruff
          January 10, 2015

          I take it your comment was ironic.

          1. Bazman
            January 13, 2015

            No it was sarcastic. Could you not tell?

    2. alan jutson
      January 10, 2015


      Your comments virtually mirror my experience as an indentured apprentice.
      Company even allowed me additional day release to attend college after my 5 year apprenticeship was completed, so did 8 years at tech College in total.

      Such a shame this route is now all but closed.

  2. Anonymous
    January 9, 2015

    At a time when I can be investigated by police for an ‘offensive’ Tweet I am not being over sensative.

    Perhaps the answer to the democratic deficit is for us ALL to be offended easily.

    1. Lifelogic
      January 9, 2015

      People can be offended if they want to be let them.

      So long as the do not go round murdering or attacking people. The BBC offend me all the time, for example with the totally absurd claims and the very silly, moronic left wing drivel of “The Super Rich and Us”.

    2. forthurst
      January 9, 2015

      “Perhaps the answer to the democratic deficit is for us ALL to be offended easily.”

      The only snag to that argument is that unless you are a member of a state registered minority, your being offended is of itself, almost certainly, a thoughtcrime.

      1. forthurst
        January 9, 2015

        …in response to Anonymous.

    3. Denis Cooper
      January 10, 2015

      Still, it may be better for you if the police take you to court over an abusive tweet, when the punishments available to the court are limited by law and certainly do not extend to the death penalty, than that somebody decides to take the law into their own hands and mete out their own illegal, extreme, sentence on you.

      “When deciding whether or not to prosecute such offences, we also have to bear in mind that people have a right to freedom of speech. Free speech includes the right to offend. Indeed, the courts have ruled that behaviour that offends, shocks or disturbs does not necessarily constitute a criminal offence.

      The offences that have been successfully prosecuted go well beyond the voicing of an opinion, free speech or causing offence.”

  3. William Gruff
    January 9, 2015

    The scheme of the moment and nothing more than the incompetent meddling of the state and the ineffective posturing of politicians. Apart from loosely regulating the terms and conditions of apprenticeships and the rights and obligations of apprentices, the government has no business involving itself in the training of craftsmen and tradesmen.

    That MPs can poke their noses and stick their fingers into such mundane matters shows that they have too little real work to do and too great an inclination to interfere. The devil really does make work for idle hands, as my late grandmother used to say.

    Might it help to improve the appallingly low quality of our politicians if the role were to be made voluntary and part-time, with only reasonable relevant expenses reimbursed by the constituency, after approval by a local referendum? Parliament could sit for, say, two months of the year, during which time it would concern itself only with matters that were genuinely of national concern (immigration, defence, policing, the judiciary, foreign affairs etc.) Cabinet members could be full-time, and would be paid, but they would not be members of parliament.

  4. Bob
    January 9, 2015

    I see that Mr Slippery is trying to squirm out of a TV debate with Nigel Farage.
    No surprises there. Pathetic.

    1. Lifelogic
      January 9, 2015

      Cameron is being sensible for once, as he had no defensible & rational arguments to put as his stance is absurd. His best approach would be to say “I agree with Farage” to every question, but alas he is essentially a Libdem at heart. One who largely believes the complete opposite.

      Cameron is for green crap, for an ever closer union EU, for ever higher 299+ taxes, for over regulation, for pointless wars, for ever bigger government, for open door and a racist immigration policy, for ratting on Cast Iron and IHT, for a bogus long grass EU re-negotiation strategy, for laws against free speech, for the European arrest warrant ……….

  5. Iain Gill
    January 9, 2015

    I am not sure I support these so called “apprenticeships” of the current times. For me burger flipping is not a highly skilled job, and does not require an apprenticeship. The status of real highly skilled trades is not respected, and there is little real validation of those genuinely with special talents. The routes up the ladder for the young have been confused. Lots of supposed apprenticeships are just setup to use cheap labour, as the minimum wage is much lower. Sadly it’s another of those things that within a few decades politicians of all flavours have messed up what was an excellent system, and failed to fix the parts of the young people training system that were broken, and mixed them up. As an employer it’s impossible to know if anyone coming out of an apprenticeship really does have the relevant skills. So as much as I appreciate you trying to help John, I wouldn’t put my name to this.

    1. William Gruff
      January 9, 2015

      Whatever the problem, one thing is certain no politician, nor any bureaucrat can solve it; they are just not practical people, even those with high level business experience, who, as senior executives, were more concerned with strategy than tactics and too often reliant on consultants well versed in expensive theory but with little practical experience. Further, most of the civil servants who advise them know bugger all except how to work the civil service system.

      Politicians cannot think beyond the next election so no plan that may take twenty years or more to show results is of any interest to them. We the people are best equipped to decide on and provide for our long-term interests and we the people must demand that we are left to do so. Should we decide that apprenticeships represent the best option for those of our offspring not suited to academic study, and perhaps a near lifetime of debt, we should be able to work out for ourselves how those apprenticeships are created, codified and managed without the handicap of government.

      My two penn’orth:

      + Apprenticeships need to be sound and practical, and intended to give youngsters both saleable practical and transferable skills and a realistic sense of their own worth and potential. Neither government nor anyone concerned with education need be involved other than to set a few basic requirements in the interests of both parties to the indenture.

      + Apprenticeships should start from fourteen for those who want them, provided they have reached a certain academic standard – a standard higher than at present, and go on until twenty one, as they did seventy years ago, with compulsory return to school for those who abandon them before reaching school leaving age.

      + The school leaving age should be reduced to sixteen and those school leavers who do not have a job should be given the opportunity, and strongly encouraged, to do paid community work.

      + No benefits should be paid unless five years’ continuous contributions have been made.

      + The emphasis on non vocational qualifications at any price must be dropped. The possession of a degree in Waste Management and Dance (I swear it’s true and as a mediaeval ‘duallist’ I blush with embarrassment at the thought that dual honours degrees can be brought so low.) should not count for more than a C & G Part II in something useful or an HND in something admirable (I’ve done City and Guilds and know that the former and the latter are not equivalent so don’t need correction).

      + The opportunity to return to learning, at any age, must be continued, with full public funding where desirable and appropriate (Wasted potential should not languish for want of funds, always provided the potential can be realised and the investment returned, perhaps many fold, in one, not always obvious to bureaucrats, spin doctors, Carlton TV marketing men, superannuated spivs and over promoted whip compliant mediocrities, way or another.)

      That’s my two penn’orth. I offer it here only partly because I see absolutely no point in writing to my own Conservative and Unionist Party Member of the ‘United’ Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland parliament, about whom I will say nothing other than I will not vote for him.

      1. alan jutson
        January 10, 2015


        Lots of good old common sense points made.

        Rest assured a few will listen, but none will take action.

        Lessons will not be learned.

    2. libertarian
      January 10, 2015

      Iain Gill

      You clearly do not know how modern apprenticeships work. The employer hires the apprentice, engages an approved training provider who delivers the “academic” part of the apprenticeship and the employer receives a subsidy for the training. Currently 82% of apprentices are hired full time by their employer on finishing their apprenticeship

      Level 5 apprenticeships are equivalent to a foundation degree

      Level 6 apprenticeships are equivalent to an honours degree

      Young people will be able to gain a full honours degree while earning a wage and paying no fees, under a scheme backed by industry.

      The new Degree Apprenticeship qualifications will be taught in England from next September, starting in the digital and software field.

      The government will pay two-thirds of the costs and fees while employers pay trainees’ wages and other costs.

      Employers of any size can take part in the scheme.

      1. William Gruff
        January 10, 2015

        I have absolutely no idea how modern apprenticeships work, nor if they do actually work and I don’t need one (What, apart from satisfying some deep need of your own, was the point of stating that?) I do know that the point of an apprenticeship is exactly what it was a thousand years ago, and a thousand years before that: the fitting of young people for skilled and economically essential roles. However modern apprenticeships work, they cannot start until the apprentice has left school, which in England is currently eighteen, thanks to the diktat of a Scotch MP sitting at the head of the British government, and there are now many children who are completely uninterested in education, who have learned little or nothing of use from the age of eleven or twelve , have sufficient ability in the ‘three Rs’ to get on in life and would welcome the opportunity to earn even a modest income at fourteen, languishing, bored and disaffected, in expensive and constantly and unnecessarily re-equipped classrooms for five or six years, until the age of eighteen, simply to keep the youth unemployment figures down.

        I also know that I don’t want government involved in the process and I don’t want tax payers’ money thrown at what are actually private arrangements between individuals, nor do I want to support an ever expanding network of ever less effective educational fiefdoms, although I have no objection to the continuing education of apprentices, and everyone else, as I thought I’d made clear in my comment.

        The assertion that one qualification is equivalent to another is ridiculous. When I took my degree there was a requirement to show some ability to think, rather than just produce a given quantity of work to a minimum standard. London cab drivers used to say that the work required to get ‘the knowledge’ was greater than a degree, perhaps in an attempt to show that really, they were just as clever as someone more educated but ‘the knowledge’ merely requires the ability to regurgitate a given quantity of information, it does not require the ability to think critically, nor do many other qualifications, even those held to be ‘equivalent’ to a degree. There is nothing wrong with honest vocational qualifications (I have some myself.) and no need to dress them up as some sort of ‘degree’, which they are not.

        That notwithstanding, there are now many occupations in which a degree is required in which it is not at all necessary and may actually be counter productive – nursing, for instance – and many occupations requiring a great deal of training over a long period for which a degree level qualification is not at all appropriate (Who needs a plumber or motor mechanic with a degree level qualification by courtesy of the tax payer?).

        The degree apprenticeship scheme will be ideal for those going into fields such as IT, where a higher level education mixed with demonstrable practical experience is desirable (such a scheme would have been of great value to me forty three years ago), it will be of no value whatsoever to those who might be interested in less cerebral occupations, for which there is still a need. Those sorts of apprenticeship do not need government involvement, beyond the establishment of a few regulations, and they do not need tax payer funding.

        That may not be a modern point of view, however, it is my opinion that we have abandoned much that was useful, workable and effective in an effort to be ‘modern’ without seeming to understand that what is ‘modern’ is not necessarily better than what is said to be obsolete. Abandoning the constant and often unnecessary search for new ideas, simply to be modern, and systems that produce unemployable citizens with an unreasonable sense of entitlement and an unrealistic sense of their worth, and going back to what worked well is not retrogressive.

        1. libertarian
          January 11, 2015

          William Gruff

          Your opening statement was correct, you have no idea how it works.

          Qualifications have ALWAYS had equivalents.

          The apprenticeship scheme is an incredibly low cost scheme to get young people into work. Your education cost the taxpayer a lot more
          money than the £1200 subsidy given to employers, its a damn cite cheaper than paying Job Seekers Allowance.

          The word modern is purely to differentiate it from the older style City & Guilds apprenticeships which also cost tax payers money . It also refers to the fact that there are vastly more things that you can acquire training and work experience in now than there were under the limited trade apprenticeships.

          I agree with you about the school leaving age being too high and I also agree that lots of jobs do not need degrees where they are now mandated such as nursing. You seem to have missed the bit where we started charging for university education & therefore degrees aren’t any longer paid for by the taxpayer in England !

      2. Iain Gill
        January 11, 2015

        Quite the reverse it is you who doesn’t understand. You have read the hype but clearly not seen what is going on at the coalface.

        1. William Gruff
          January 11, 2015

          My apologies to our host and my thanks to him should he decide to indulge me and publish what I promise is my last word in this exchange.

          I will readily concede that I do not at all understand your last comment except to interpret it as you putting your fingers into your ears, shutting your eyes tight, stamping your foot and shouting ‘Yah, boo, sucks to you and the same with brass knobs on’.

          I’m sure you’ll correct me should I be wrong, or perhaps not.

          That’s all from me on this thread.

        2. libertarian
          January 11, 2015

          Iain Gill

          Yeh right. How many times do I have to tell you, I actually work at the coalface of employment. I didn’t read the hype as you put it I actually live it every day. The facts and figures I’ve given you are what is actually happening.

          SME’s have embraced modern apprenticeships wholeheartedly, more than 2 million young people have now found full time work through these schemes. Thats why we have FALLING unemployment whilst youth unemployment in large parts of the EU is 50%.

          The Federation of Small Business successfully lobbied the government to continue the scheme owing to its success.

  6. alan jutson
    January 9, 2015

    It is good that the Government are promoting apprenticeships, indeed more than 50 years ago I was an apprentice myself.

    Goodness knows the Country needs home grown skilled people for all sorts of trades and professions, rather than importing such people.

    What the government must be careful not to do, is devalue the word apprenticeship to mean any type of simple short term training to learn very basic skills, as that is not an apprenticeship as most people would understand it.

    Such a shame that such few Tech colleges now exist to give added training and certification of knowledge.

  7. ian wragg
    January 9, 2015

    As someone who did a traditional apprenticeship and has interviewed people for work, I must say I am disappointed with the quality of these schemes.
    Some of them are little more than work experience and some of the NVQ papers are about GCSE level.
    It is amazing how many of these so called apprentices cannot spell or do simple maths, so how they expect to become our technicians of the future, I don’t know.

    1. behindthefrogs
      January 9, 2015

      Many apprenticeships are far too short and actually just a source of cheap labour. Often they just lead to the lowest of a number of qualifications. We must have apprenticeships that lead through series of qualifications so that we finish up with fully qualified craftsmen and engineers. The status of a master craftsman needs to be raised and apprenticeships aimed at creating these masters.

      1. Iain Gill
        January 9, 2015

        Correct rather like the standards of exam passes, and the currency, governments have devalued the meaning of the word “apprenticeship” currently they are nothing at all like the genuine apprenticeships of my fathers generation where they really did master a craft, working a long time, under the wing of an experienced master. It seems pretty hard if not impossible to actually fail one of the current versions, and as I said before burger flipping is not a highly skilled occupation, if you cannot fail a qualification its not worth much is it. Not worth the paper they are written on.

        1. libertarian
          January 11, 2015

          Iain Gill
          Whilst the old City & Guilds apprenticeships you refer to were indeed very comprehensive they only were available for a vanishingly small number of occupations. The new scheme is available in ANY field of work at any level. The types, duration and starting qualifications differ enormously depending on the scheme, the field of work and the type of training. The apprenticeships in advanced engineering offered by BAE and others are 4 year apprenticeships with very high levels of specialist training. Things like business admin, customer service etc are by there nature less demanding and much shorter.

          So far 2 million people have found full time employment via the new apprenticeship schemes. Do you not think thats better than having them sign on and claim job seekers allowance? Do you not think the £1200 subsidy to employers is taxpayers money better spent than years of benefit payments? Do you not think that the £1200 is recouped in one year in tax from these paid workers that otherwise wouldn’t be?

          At the coalface, survey after survey of SME’s showed that what employers wanted was a work attitude not qualifications. They wanted young people prepared to work and learn and they would provide the training. Well that is now whats happening. As I’ve told you all on here many times unemployment is falling and falling rapidly, the reason is the growth of SME’s, 750,000 new ones in the last year alone. 5.2 million businesses in the UK, the UK is now ranked 4th in the world for start up businesses up from 13th last year.

          The world has changed drastically since your fathers generation. The needs of the world are different, access to learning resources is different. the type and nature of the work is different. Hell the world has changed enormously since I started work in 1970.

          If the qualification isn’t worth the paper its written on don’t you find it odd that 82% of apprentices are hired full time when they complete the course?

          So your idea is what? Scrap the new scheme and send them back on the dole. Great idea


          You are still stuck comparing this to an older scheme. The vast majority of new apprenticeships aren’t in engineering or craft trades they are in services, thats why they’re shorter. The ones in advanced engineering are longer & comprehensive.

          If your assertion is true please explain why 82% of apprentices are hired permanently by the employer at the end of the scheme?

    2. Brian Tomkinson
      January 9, 2015

      Our parents and grandparents could do all those things with far less time in school. Politicians fail yet again.

    3. libertarian
      January 10, 2015

      Currently approx 22% of University Graduates are entering work via apprenticeship schemes !!

      1. Bazman
        January 10, 2015

        Is it because they cannot get a graduate job? It is. You now need a degree to be an apprentice it seems. what about those without a degree or any inclination to do any academic study they are now even further down the pecking order. Don’t tell me they are not their is only so many apprentices taken on. Interesting to see how they become apprentices and what they do many companies restrict 17 as the maximum age for apprentices BAE systems for example and generally you must be either unemployed or not currently working in a graduate level position to be eligible.

        1. libertarian
          January 10, 2015

          Oh my word Bazman , no wonder you’re still on minimum wage after all these years .

          There were 510,000 people who started apprenticeships last year
          There were 502,000 the year before

          45% of Apprentices were aged 25 or older a slim majority at 55% were female

          Bazman when will you learn to stop making it up as you go along

          BAE systems are hiring 710 apprentices this year

          They hire at 3 levels

          Higher Apprenticeship ( level 5)
          Graduate ( grads aren’t eligible for lower apprenticeships )

          You can start an apprentice immediately on leaving school or college, from employment in another job or if you are unemployed


          So if you fancy improving your prospects you can apply here


    4. libertarian
      January 11, 2015

      Ian Wragg, Iain Gill, William Gruff, Behind the Frogs, Bazman

      Here is a sample of one type of apprenticeship on offer in 2015. Its taken from the link I posted on this thread to BAE systems


      A significant portion of the apprentices will be based at the submarine design and manufacturing site in Barrow-in-Furness shipyard in Cumbria, which requires hundreds of highly skilled staff to deliver the five remaining Astute class attack submarines and to develop the new ‘Successor’ submarines which are scheduled to replace the Vanguard class from 2028.

      The breakdown of vacancies available is as follows:

      305 apprentice and 30 higher apprentice roles at Barrow, with 4 other higher apprentice roles split across sister submarine design sites in Weymouth, Dorset and Ash Vale, Surrey.

      So engineering apprenticeships building submarines ( Bazman we don’t build ships in the UK, notwithstanding) are hiring kids with poor literacy skills, rushing them through short term apprenticeships and producing worthless qualifications. Is that likely?

      As I said originally, none of you understand the new apprenticeship schemes and what its doing to transform youth unemployment. As an employer myself I’ve hired apprentices and found the scheme very very good. By the way Bazman I pay my apprentices £8 per hour.

      I think the taxpayer cost which by the way is ONLY available to companies with 50 or less employees and is only available for up to 5 apprentices and is a one off payment once the apprentice has completed 6 months work is good value.

      Oh and Mr Gruff you can hire an apprentice age 16 and older

      1. Bazman
        January 12, 2015

        Its good that they are taking on more apprentices and all of the above is true. I was an apprentice there myself in the 1980’s. This is a military shipyard libtard it does not produce any commercial equipment or vessels. Or ships for that matter, not for while anyway.
        They are taking on 300 plus apprentices and looking for tradesman, but will not find many willing to work for that rate and relocate to Barrow. I went for an interview and found out and whats what with free diesel to boot. There is the problem of security so no East Europeans or certainly not in any numbers. They made ten thousand redundant in the 1990’s of which I was just one. They need as they say in their own words “A mass of welders” Not at that money. Conscription of Ex employees?
        So don’t celebrate to much libtard what I said about graduates not being able to find jobs and lower apprenticeships not available to those over 17 years old still stands Where all the tradesman will come from is a mystery. I’m not doing it i have become a a bit waylaid down south as many other have or got to old. Our third wage is house price inflation none of that in Barrow that for sure that has now finished or until BAE Systems gets going.
        What will the lads do on Monday? As Cecil Franks said. After the election he was saying. Which will keep this submarine project and should they?Another big question for any potential employee. Hung out to dry comes to mind as many were.
        BAE System is also one of your parasite companies as it is mostly funded by taxes don’t forget and so are the contractors building the facilities for the building of the submarines. They are in effect state employees in subsidised jobs.

        1. libertarian
          January 13, 2015


          Do you have trouble reading BAE are hiring 700 not 300 apprentices.

          You don’t know what rates of pay they are paying.

          As usual you’re wrong, they have been inundated with applications in all of their locations. to work

          You are WRONG lower apprenticeships are available age 16-24

          This is just one example ( which picked purely because YOU mentioned them incorrectly) I can find 1,000’s of others.

          Stop wasting your time on here spouting nonsense and go finbd yourself a better job. There’s loads out there

        2. libertarian
          January 13, 2015

          Hi Bazman

          I’ve taken you on as my pet project. I’m going to help you improve your lot in life.

          There are 558 firms in Cambridge area offering apprenticeships at the moment.

          There are 147 Engineering apprenticeships on offer in Cambridge right now. The vast majority paying £7 per hour or more.
          The average engineering apprentice salary is £16970 ( £9 per hour)
          Lets get your application in and get you earning

          1. libertarian
            January 13, 2015


            Apprentice Engineering starting pay £24k plus car !!! rising to £30k.

            All here


        3. Bazman
          January 15, 2015

          Go and get me a metric adjustable spanner and a left handed screw driver lad and tell the storeman you need a long weight while you are there.
          Can you not read? I did an apprenticeship with BAE systems. They used to hire 300 a year most years. My year had 1700+ applicants so not all got apprenticeships there did they? What did the rest doing Barrow? Different apprenticeships? Big house or nothing there. Oh Yes.
          This is all a bit like your loads of jobs posts which turns out to be agencies fishing for names on a job site. Indeed. You are just looking at a the same job site and the Telegraph telling us about all the jobs and the apprenticeships available. 558 in Cambridgeshire and nearly 18k in the UK. A bucket of steam no less.
          Maybe youth unemployment 754,000 young people aged 16-24 in August to October 2014 is just a myth and they all just do not want to work and do not have access to a computer. Doh!

          1. libertarian
            January 16, 2015


            What you suffer from is called cognitive dissonance .

            1. I already dispelled your failure to look around you at the vast job market. I’ve told you enough times laddie that I own and run my own companies in this field so I don’t need to reference other sites to get my facts about the massive job market. More jobs are advertised by employers than agencies, FACT

            2. I’ve given you dozens of links to different website about all facets of the employment market and average earnings etc

            3) BAE are hiring 710 apprentices this year in all their operations across the UK, thats a fact

            4) 2 million apprenticeship places have been filled in the last 2 years FACT

            5) Youth unemployment August -October at 745k was DOWN 208k on same quarter the previous year and oh of course that wouldn’t be the time that all the school/college leavers actually leave and enter the job market would it? Maybe they have just left school/college and are busy getting their job/apprenticeship started. They get their GCSE/A level results in Aug and become eligible to work from Sept. Doh!

            No wonder you’re such a failure, you just can’t think things through clearly.

          2. Bazman
            January 16, 2015

            What you suffer from is called blind stupidity as only you could tell us that 745k down from 950k means that there is little youth unemployment in the UK. The thick end of a million kids with no job. Maybe they and the rest of the unemployed should look on the job sites you keep showing me or phone an employer or agency? Just bone idle it seems.
            I have noticed a distinct lack of deck chair attendants, your entrepreneurial skills could be used to fill this gap in the market and I may be interested in this career as the metal trades get a bit hot in the summer.

          3. libertarian
            January 18, 2015


            You really are deluded, maybe its why you still earn the same money you did 20 years ago.

            I’ve NEVER, EVER once said that there is no unemployment, clearly there are 1.7 million unemployed.

            What I said was there are loads and loads of jobs, they are really easy to find even (people ed) like you could find them if you bothered to look.

            I also on more than one occasion listed the various reasons why people are unemployed and the least of those reasons are benefit scroungers/idlers. The reasons are to do with, illness, disability, addictions, lack of skills & qualifications etc but the BIGGEST reason is transient.

            Lets try and spell it out so (you ed) can understand.

            1) Young people leave school and look for a job, they don’t have a job until they find one !!! Doh

            950k were unemployed there were 108k who had NOT found a job within 6 months and 29k who hadn’t found one in 12 months last year ! That means that 921k young people found work between leaving education in Sept 2013 & Sept 2014.

            2) People find jobs and then leave, get sacked or are made redundant. There is a transient period where they will be out of work whilst they look for a new job.

            3) When they look for a new job they go to a job portal ( 7 million vacancies advertised last year ) or an employment agency, or the job centre or direct to an employer . What other way would you suggest finding a job Bazman? Maybe the reason you have such a terrible job is you haven’t bothered to look in the right place?

            4) The UK long term unemployment rate is 2.3% the EU average for long term unemployment is 6.1%

            I already own and run 9 businesses employing many many people. I own a software company in employment market, a software company providing marketing applications, a pharmaceutical & drug development business, two radio stations a lean start up incubator, a car sales operation & a business events marketing company. No room in my portfolio for deck chairs I’m afraid.

            If I were you Bazman I wouldn’t advise you to try the deck chair business no money in it, although it would suit your skill level admittedly.

            As I said, and I genuinely mean this I am prepared to help you find a proper job

  8. agricola
    January 9, 2015

    The more apprenticeships and the more grammar school place we create the less likely are we to need to import skilled labour so I am all for it. They are also the basis of an aspirational society with lots of upward mobility. This is one of the things that conservatism should be about.

  9. JoeSoap
    January 9, 2015

    I have taken on 2.

    The first (first educated in the Commonwealth) could have done the course blindfold. The second (educated in UK Comprehensive) has struggled 3 months in.
    So I have mixed feelings.

    If you’re motivated and interested, fine. If you’re doing it because mum dad and the government tell you too, stay stacking shelves. Please.

  10. petermartin2001
    January 9, 2015

    The drive to increase the number of young people going in to higher education is a good thing, but it has been somewhat at the expense of the traditional apprenticeship scheme. There needs to be a renewed effort to combine the two. At one time companies would offer ‘sandwich courses’ to young people which meant they would alternate years of work for the company which formal study at university or technical college. We don’t hear so much about them now.

    The problem, from the perspective of an individual employer, is that they might put in the effort to support the scheme but then at the end of the training period another employer who had put in no effort or money at all steps in to offer a higher salary . This is one reason why many companies no longer offer apprenticeships. Or at least in the numbers they once did.

    So, to protect against free riders, for these and all other apprenticeship schemes, there does need to be government involvement. Apprenticeships should be treated as a part of the education system, and just as graduates have to repay government loans so should they be repaid in the apprenticeship system. Except, I would argue these should be repaid by the employer rather than the apprentice themselves. The scheme should be structured so that the costs of the apprenticeship scheme are paid out as government loans to industry and repaid later after those apprentices become qualified, by whoever is employing them at the time.

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