Mr Cameron’s EU welfare and migration proposals

 

I was asked when campaigning in Earley on Saturday to set out more of the details of Conservative proposals on migration and welfare.

Mr Cameron has pledged to negotiate a new deal with the EU to reduce and limit their power in the UK, and to base the relationship more centrally around membership  of the single market.

He wishes to regain more UK Parliamentary control over the UK’s borders and welfare policies, to hit his target of a substantial reduction in net migration into the UK.

His particular policy changes include

Asking anyone who has been in the UK from the rest of the EU looking for a job to leave if they have not found one in 6 months.

Removing Child Benefit from EU migrants in the UK or any child not resident in the UK

Remove all in work benefits from any EU person with a job in the UK for the first four years of their stay.

No out of work benefits for EU jobseekers on arrival in UK

He has stated that he will legislate for the In/Out referendum in the first 100 days of a Conservative government.

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150 Comments

  1. Andyvan
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    Mr Cameron is also very concerned with the Ukraine. Sending troops to train and support the Kiev (word left out ed) forces and doing his level best to inflame the situation at Washngtons behest. Can weassume that should we ever leae the EU we will simply exchange European masters for American ones?

    • Mitchel
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:53 am | Permalink

      I believe our foreign policy is already more influenced by the USA than the EU;in fact I believe the US use us to push their line in the EU(think Ukraine/Russian sanctions,Syria and Libya) and it’s one of the reasons they want us to stay in the EU.

      • Hope
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

        Cameron should accept responsibility for the disaster in the med because of his invasion of Libya. He must be held to account by proper judicial inquiry. We have learned from Iraq that politicians cannot be trusted and nor should they be free from responsibility for awful actions which result in the loss of life.

        Good to hear that Lord Tebbit suggesting Tory supporters vote Labour in Scotland! This should send alarm bells ringing. However, Cameron made similar chants for opponent parties at the Rochester by election that Labour and Libs vote Tory rather than UKIP, showing there is little difference in the LibLabCon cartel. All important policy areas given to the EU.

        Reply Most of the people coming across the Med are not Libyans

        • Hope
          Posted April 28, 2015 at 9:07 am | Permalink

          Which country do they mainly pass through? Gaddaffi offered help to stop migration through his country to Europe, primarily Italy, years go for a sum of about £5 billion is this not correct?

          What was the UK involvement to help in the capture of Gaddaffi? We saw planes fly over as he was being brutally handled when caught, I doubt the rebates acted alone, nor could they make so much progress without some sort of organisation and intelligence. So, tell us what was the UK involvement? The country is a basket case, as is Iraq. There should not be immunity for Blair or Cameron, even if they cowed towed to the U.S.

      • Mondeo Man
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

        I believe our EU membership is dictated by the USA.

        • William Gruff
          Posted April 28, 2015 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

          Mondeo Man:

          The USA does not want the ‘U’K to leave the EU because a United States of Europe has been a US aim for a very long time. The CIA was funding various organisations working for a European union at least as early as 1946.

          You may not know that the OSS, the forerunner of the CIA, was arming and training the Viet Minh, in French Indochina, in 1945, against British Indian forces, including the Gurkhas and regiments of the Royal Artillery, using re-armed Japanese POWs. There is a biography of Major General Douglas Gracie that gives a good, if incomplete, account of the campaign, and the politics behind it.

          The ‘Americans’ do not want an independent England.

          • William Gruff
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

            PS: To clarify, the re-armed Japanese POWs were serving the British forces not the Americans.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 10:15 am | Permalink

      Depends on which politicians we elect Andy. I want to be controlled by neither, preferring instead to have our own parliament calling the shots and determining our own laws and foreign policy. That way, we might finally get something ethical that best serves the UK.

      Cameron has already shown himself to be totally inadequate, but yesterday, it was mooted that Boris might become leader of the Tories after Cameron leaves the post or is unceremoniously booted out. I just think back to the phrase a former US tennis player made famous.

      Is Boris really the best alternative the Tories could come up with?

      Boy they really DO HAVE a problem!

      Tad

      • Lifelogic
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:24 am | Permalink

        Well they came up with Heath, Major & Cameron. Surely Boris cannot be any worse than these three?

      • Mitchel
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

        None of his other anointed successors inspire confidence either.

        Where their natural constituency is concerned the complacent Cameroons seem to have taken that famous lyric from the 1980’s hit “Hotel California” as gospel:-

        “You can check out anytime you like,but you can never leave”

        Problem is the Eagles were “on something” when they wrote that.I venture no comment about Dave….other than to suggest that someone changes the playlist on his iPod.How about the Who’s “Won’t get fooled again” for starters….on repeat play.

    • yosarion
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

      I see Cameron is also promising a British Bill of Rights, there is already an English Bill of Rights on Statute, if this is to be removed I guess he will also remove all the Scottish rights that were left on Statute post 1707 in the name of equality.

  2. Old Albion
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    Mrs Merkel………she say no.

    • Hope
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:10 am | Permalink

      To gain more control…. Says it all all JR. He does not have control of our borders, has no means to prevent any criminal from the EU entering our country to commit further crime, as we have tragically witnessed, and all in the EU and EU countries ruled out.

      How about stopping free tuition fees to EU university students on the back of the British taxpayer? They are our competitors, why give them an advantage over our own people at our expense? Cameron increased tuition fees to give our young people a life time of debt while giving the EU students free education, how is this right let alone fair?

      Why does Cameron keep giving away our taxes to other people that we cannot afford? Overseas aid, EU and education?

      • Brian Tomkinson
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:24 am | Permalink

        On 9 February 1950 Churchill made an election speech in Devonport.
        In it he said: “the Socialist Government has given away £1,500,000,000 since they came to power to help the reconstruction of the world. They had to borrow it first from the United States or be given it by them. It was only lent or given to help Britain get on her legs again. Now it is gone……Conservatives are as keen as Socialists to help revive the other countries of the world; but we believe we should be just before we are generous.”

        Now we have had a Conservative led government which has borrowed, over 5 years, £60,000,000,000 to give away in foreign aid.
        Not only that but it is now the only item of government spending which MPs have decided to enshrine in law.

        • Hope
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

          So Cameron puts EU people ahead of UK citizens for taxes, education, health, housing, child benefit. He introduced free school meals that help EU citizens, free child care vouchers. What about the English taxpayer who provides all Cameron’s free give aways!

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 10:36 am | Permalink

        Hope,

        I’d like to give an answer, but I absolutely know JR wouldn’t let me use my preferred terminology. Rest assured though, have faith in the many people who read this blog, for they have enough brains to work it out for themselves. If by chance the same can be said of the public, Cameron could be getting his P45 soon.

        Tad

        • Hope
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

          Stop child benefit for British people while allowing EU citizens to send home child benefit when their children have not set foot in the country!! His priorities are utterly warped. I am starting to think the Labour SNP coalition will be a necessary disaster to make people wake up and want UKIP as a conservative alternative to the loony left. By that I include Cameron and Clegg who are left, just not as left as the others!

          • William Gruff
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

            Hope:

            You’re catching on but you have some way to go. UKIP is not the answer.

      • Hefner
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 10:37 am | Permalink

        Free tuition fees to EU university students? Can you please give the reference of the universities doing such a thing? Thanks in advance.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:27 am | Permalink

          Well is it not all Universities in Scotland and in England EU students get the soft loans to cover the fees and very many, well over half, will never repay.

          • Hope
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

            Hefner, St Andrews. Ming Campbell, Lib Dem MP, chancellor awards the degrees! Even though it was his party’s policy to abolish them!!

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

          Any EU student is entitled to free University education in Scotland unless they hail from other parts of the UK. Free movement, as you know, means EU populous is entitled to all that which is provided to the indigenous population.

          Similarly EU students can claim a student loan to cover their fees and reasonable living expenses if studying in other parts of the UK. Unless the recipient of that loan works in the UK there is no mechanism to recover repatments so good luck with collection. Ergo a free education.

          All available from a quick internet search.

          • Hope
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

            As it was pointed out by the stats, a large proportion of the maintenance loans are not paid back because the UK does not have the capacity or capability to chase them around Europe!

          • Mondeo Man
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

            Hope

            Couldn’t their degrees be cancelled/not awarded until payment was recieved ?

          • Hefner
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

            Almost available from a quick internet search, but on German, French, Spanish or Italian university sites, the UK students if they were to decide to study in these countries would have to pay the same fees and could benefit from the same help as the local students.

            So that looks to me more as an internal UK problem, not so much an EU one. As for the non-reimbursement of potential loans, I would think it is a common problem in a lot of countries, maybe made worse in the UK by the high university costs.

            And before someone rebuts me quoting the quality of UK universities, please consider that not all UK universities are Cambridge, Oxford, or Imperial.

          • fedupsouthener
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

            Yes, you are quite right. All Scots get free university places and those from the rest of the EU but not the English! Stinks I think.

          • Narrow Shoulders
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 6:54 am | Permalink

            @Hef

            True UK students can take advantage of access to EU institutions at lower cost to UK studies.

            However the reciprocal arrangements, as with all EU reciprocity, is not weighted in our favour. How many students of UK origin (not citizenship) do you think are hankering to study in Tallin or Warsaw?

            The EU is too redistributive in favour of the newer members. Access to EU mechaniams should be restricted until their costs and standards of living are more in line with the more established members.

            Ever greater union is a horrible concept but made worse by the downward equalisation driven by enlargement. If our own living standards were improving I would be more unlikely to oppose the EU.

            Redistributive socialism as practiced by the EU favours large corporates and the establishment to the long term detriment of all.

        • Timaction
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

          All Scottish ones as they can’t discriminate for EU students as Scottish students don’t pay. English pupils do however have to pay!
          Barnet formula fairness anyone?
          I’m not sure about Wales but most likely as our cartel has signed us up to be European citizens, they just forgot to ask our permission!

          • JoolsB
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 7:52 am | Permalink

            Welsh students’ fees are capped at £3,465 wherever they study in the UK, insultingly even when Welsh students are studying at English universities alongside £9,000 fee paying English students. All courtesy of the Barnett formula of course and the fact they have their own assembly with someone standing up for the interests of Welsh students, something denied to England by the anti-English Con/Lab/Libs.
            Only one thing is certain, England’s young will never get a level playing field from the anti-English parties.

    • Timaction
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:50 am | Permalink

      So limited as to be pointless. We don’t want or need any of the EU dictatorship. We want out and ALL of our sovereign democracy returned here so we can chose who lives and works here. Only one sensible party advocates that. The extreme cartel parties want more EU and domination by the EU. The people will be told the truth. Not the lies of the LibLabCONS.
      Trade and friendship. Like China, USA, Japan. No political Union advocated by the cartel at £14.5 billion a year for foreign infrastructure and farmers.

      • fedupsouthener
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

        Yes, we do want out of the EU and their expensive energy policies which are costing jobs in the UK. Just today we learn that a paper making factory which has been going for 2 hundred years has just closed down with the loss off nearly 400 jobs in Fife. This industry is energy intensive and the cost of energy to run it doesn’t help to make it competitive.

  3. Richard1
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:58 am | Permalink

    The problem with the EU for the UK is not either immigration or welfare. With some exceptions, EU immigration has been positive, bringing economically contributing workers. The problem with the EU is the socialism – statism: the CAP, the CFP, the energy policy, he social chapter etc (and of course the Euro, but fortunately John Major’s Maastricht negotiation kept us out of that). what are the Consevative proposals to deal with these?

    • Hope
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      One voice out of 28! No top table nonsense even though we pay more than we get out. The majority are not going to vote in our favour irrespective that we pay more into the pot! Crazy political scheme of no use to the UK citizen. We saw over the weekend another dopey EU directive that organic farmers must only allow homeopathic treatments to their animals despite UK scientists unequivocally stating medication should be based on science and animal welfare!

      These are the sort of competencies given away by the politicians so the EU decides how to regulate our lives and not them. This given freely by Cameron when he ordered his MPs to vote against UK parliamentary sovereignty!

      • Timaction
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

        So no renegotiation of free movement to 485 million people! More building on the greenbelt, and public services reaching crisis point. No renegotiation of the freedom of capital so multi nationals can still avoid corporation tax by headquartering in the lowest taxed Country! No renegotiation of the Common Agricultural policy that Blair gave away billions to reform it in our rebate! No renegotiation of the Common fisheries policy so our seas can remain plundered by foreign fishermen, whilst we lost 400,000 fishing jobs. I wonder if UKIP will gain Grimsby? No renegotiation of the Energy competency, so more windmills and solar farms whilst shutting our coal power stations and our lights will go out and our industrial base will go East where they pollute more! No renegotiation of consumer protection, so more daft regulations by the bucket load for the 92% of businesses who do not trade with the EU. No renegotiation of the competition rules, so lots more fines for breaches by the unelected bureaucrats of the EU. No renegotiation of the justice measures so more people carted off by the European Arrest Warrants to languish in foreign jails with backward criminal justice systems with guilt before innocence! More borrowed money for EU foreign aid. No renegotiation of the environment policy so less dredging in the Somerset levels etc. No renegotiation of the transport policy, so we can spend billions to save 10 minutes on a journey for HS2!

        Reply My post didn’t set out the whole renegotiation, just the bit about benefits!

        • Timaction
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

          Please Mr Redwood I admire your loyalty but we have to live by the reality of your Governments utter failure on policy delivery. Your leaders promises, contracts, no its or buts, cast iron guarantees are now the source of many jokes out here in the real world. There is only one patriotic party who will return our sovereignty entirely and restore trade and friendship only. UKIP don’t lie or spin and the public know it.

        • Hope
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

          I think the point is the EU affects all aspects of our lives without the public knowing it and without politicians being honest and straight with the public about their intentions. No more deceit and lies with our taxes for another forty years.

          We need a Labour SNP coalition to bring the public to its senses. They will come to hate those in office and the Tories for going along with it. It will become clear that only UKIP offered a different choice to the EU brigade.

          And you did not highlight the comment by the EU commissioner who made it clear the UK would not be allowed to treat EU citizens differently!

          Understandable from their perpestive, after all that would be viewed as nationalism!

      • Chris
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

        Re the competencies apparently given away by this government (and not advertised by any MPs – at least I haven’t seen or heard any evidence of them fighting against the loss of these powers), this list in the comments section of another website gives food for thought. I am not sure how accurate this is, but there will be readers of this site who will know, and I would welcome their input:

        “…on 12th November 2014, the British Parliament lost competence (control) over the 43 areas of government listed below that are needed to manage and keep safe your lives.
        They are now the subject of QMV within the EU.
        The British Parliament now has to seek approval from the EU for any laws that they wish to pass on these 43 areas.
        The British Parliament also lost the right of veto in those areas.

        1) Administrative cooperation
        2) Asylum
        3) Border Controls
        4) Citizens initiative regulations
        5) Civil Protection
        6) Committee of the regions
        7) Common Defence Policy
        8) Crime prevention incentives
        9) Criminal judicial cooperation
        10) Criminal Law
        11) Culture
        12) Diplomatic judicial cooperation
        13) Economic Social Committee
        14) Emergency International aid
        15) Energy
        16) EU Budget
        17) Eurojust
        18) European Central Bank
        19) European Court of Justice
        20) Europol
        21) Eurozone external representation,
        22) Foreign Affairs High Representation Election
        23) Freedom of Movement of Workers
        24) Freedom to Establish a Business
        25) Freedom, Security, Justice, cooperation & evaluation policy
        26) Funding the Common Foreign & Security Policy
        27) General economic interest services
        28) Humanitarian Aid
        29) Immigration
        30) Intellectual property
        31) Organisation of the Council of the EU
        32) Police cooperation
        33) President of the European Council election
        34) Response to natural disaster & terrorism
        35) Rules concerning the Armaments Agency
        36) Self-employment rights
        37) Social Security Unanimity
        38) Space
        39) Sport
        40) Structural & Cohesion Funds
        41) Tourism,
        42 ) Transport
        43) Withdrawal of a member state”

        Reply Nonsense, these were all powers given away by earlier treaties pre 2010

        • Brian Tomkinson
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

          Reply to reply,
          They were still given away without our consebt by treacherous MPs.

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted April 28, 2015 at 6:42 am | Permalink

          The fact is they were given away. When is much less relevant.

          Why are we bothering with this upcoming “parish council” election if we have no say over the above listed competencies?

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:17 am | Permalink

      Richard–There are plenty of people, of whom I am one, who have other criteria than economic usefulness in their assessment of whether immigration has been positive. We want our country back and economic usefulness would never have crossed my mind..

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      “EU immigration has been positive, bringing economically contributing workers.”

      “Economically contributing workers” who even while they are young and single will on average cost the Treasury more in terms of the public services that they use than the value of the taxes that they pay in; which imbalance will increase when they start families and have children needing healthcare and education, and then increase further as they themselves age and ail and retire from work.

      Whereupon it will seem necessary to import yet more “young workers” to look after them and help pay for them, in a kind of demographic Ponzi scheme.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 10:45 am | Permalink

        That’s true Denis, and the increase will be an exponential one until it runs away far beyond anyone’s control.

        Tad

        • outsider
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

          The Labour manifesto promises 28,000 more NHS doctors and nurses Tad; the Conservative manifesto pledges NHS service improvements that would require many more GPs. Where would they come from? Neither lengthy manifesto has any mention of training more doctors or nurses.

          • Brian Tomkinson
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

            At the same time doctors over 55 are queing up to retire due to government meddling in both the NHS and their pension arrangements whilst young doctors are reluctant to become GPs.

          • yulwaymartyn
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

            Outsider: Where do you think they are going to come from? Of course they are going to come from abroad because this country, i.e. , the government, does not train enough. This is the elephant in the room: the EU is a source of cheap both qualified and unqualified labour because the wretched British governments over the last 30 years have failed in their duty to train and educate enough of their own people.

          • fedupsouthener
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

            Apparently there are already well trained doctors and nurses in this country who cannot find work in the nursing sector. I wonder why? Could it be that many of the posts in nursing are now part time positions and this makes the numbers look good? Also, many of our nurses and doctors are being trained and then going abroad to work for better conditions. This should be stopped. The tax payer pays for their training and they should be expected to work here for at least 5 years before being allowed to go anywhere else.

      • F.Cunctator
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

        Has anyone calculated how much of the money earned by immigrants is remitted to their countries of origin. This was going on in the early seventies and judging by the presence in many town , even small market towns in E England, of Western Union and other companies’ premises, or in newsagents, there must have been an enormous increase. Child benefits are sent back to keep children in the home country. There are reports of houses being build with money remitted to Poland, this is said to be particularly true in the Beszkidy region and near the Tatra mountains. These houses are for rent as holiday homes.
        It has been said that some regions in the sub-continent of India are highly reliant on this remitted money. How much is spent by people visiting or returning to their homes for holiday or permanently? Travelling back and forth to their home countries,many use overseas airlines and to coach
        operators. In terms of the balance of payments what is the cost of importing foreign produced ……..foodstuffs for sale to (recently arrived people ed) All of this on top of the extra money needed for housing , health care must add up to a sizeable total. Where’s the great economic benefit?

        Reply Most of us wish to live in a country where people can send money overseas, invest overseas, and travel when and where they wish. Surely the issue is how many people we grant rights to reside and work in the UK, not limiting their freedoms once legally settled here. Do you want to ban UK born residents from importing oranges or apples as well?

        • Anonymous
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

          Reply to reply – The remittance of money IS a cost. It is something which needs to be taken into account but, of course, not legislated against itself (it should be used in the calculation for setting optimal levels of immigration.) It is among the many costs of immigration which are not counted – including the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and and Libya which were to ‘prevent terrorism on our streets’, not to mention the cost of homeland security and its impact on everyone’s civil liberty.

          Richard 1 can claim that immigration is and economic positive but how do we know ? We don’t count people in or out or know what they do when they’re here. We don’t have a points system.

          All we can say is that the national debt is increasing and the largest part of our yearly expenditure is welfare.

          As a Conservative minded person (if no longer a Conservative voter) not even I can support a harsh regime of turfing people out of welfare into a compressed-wage jobs market where you have subsidised the influx of competition against our own people using our own money.

          What’s taken Mr Cameron so long to cotton on to this and bring it to manifesto ?

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

          Mr Redwood I feel you have distorted @FC’s post in your reply. To my mind he was merely highlighting that the espoused many economic benefits of “recently arrived peoples” did not take into account their use of the free movement of capital when calculating this wonderful economic benefit that we derive from their use of our services and their subsidised (through the tax credit system into which we taxpayers pour money) labour. There was no wish to restrict freedoms other than free movement.

          • F.Cunctator
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 8:40 am | Permalink

            Thank you Narrow Shoulders for pointing the error in JR’s extended erroneous inferences in reply to my post. I was not advocating any restrictions of freedom. I was merely suggesting that in assessing gain and loss from any activity there must be as far as possible total accounting. This is part of the problem in this country at present no focus group, political party, government department makes a true assessment of what is involved in its propounded courses of action. It has been clear for 30 or more years that we have moved into an anarchic era. The information and communication explosion has lead to delusion in every sphere of activity, with every possible view being put forward. Because of political and legislative hyperactivity many such propositions are enacted without thorough examination oft their consequences. The whole UK is living at alt levels of society in a deeply deluded condition
            devoid of any true assessment of what is actually happening at
            particular time and believing what MSM and vested interest groups put forward as fact. There is fact of course in what the public read and hear but there is a hinterland of fact behind, perhaps 50% of what is out there, is that put forward .
            It could have been thought that the increase in higher education would have brought a more reasoned approach to problems; the reverse seems to have occurred. i suspect that we live in a state which has be come over complex and which is not understandable at any level of scrutiny.

            Reply I was objecting to your wish to add imports bought by recently arrived UK residents as another “cost”

        • Hope
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

          Most of us want the govt to be able to control UK borders as to the quality and quantity of people coming here from around the world. Not unlimited immigration of people from EU countries irrespective of background lack of skills, criminal records or limitless dependents.

          Cameron and Miliband hide from conversations about immigration when the majority of the public want action to curb it!

          • Timaction
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 7:13 am | Permalink

            I read yesterday that we now have (EU ed) pensioners coming here for care homes having not contributed a bean. Ah well, they are European citizens! What a state the cartel have created.

    • forthurst
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:15 am | Permalink

      Richard: has recent mass immigration been associated an increase or reduction of GNP per capita? If it has reduced, why would the English regard that as a good thing, or is that not a matter that concerns you?

    • agricola
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:50 am | Permalink

      Absolutely correct, immigration and welfare are mere symptoms.. Even if DC got his wicked way with Merkel, it is not something I would settle for. I would add to your list the key subject of our sovereignty, which is leeching away daily. It is fast reducing Parliament to the status of a village council. Nothing less than out of the political EU and reversion to an EFTA relationship is my red line.

  4. petermartin2001
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    We have to face reality and we can’t assume that there will be a vote to leave the EU in a referendum. There may not even be a referendum if the Conservatives have to renew their coalition with the Lib Dems.

    So what can be done in the UK’s interest? I’d suggest we do what we can to explain to our European friends why the Eurozone doesn’t work. IF we could get the EU to work better, the economies of the EZ would be in a healthier state, they’d be much better trading partners, they would be able to afford our exports, there would be more jobs available in those countries and less need for anyone to migrate to the UK.

    There may even be the opportunity of jobs in sunnier climes for British workers too.

    Call me a pessimist if you like but there isn’t going to be any renegotiations, there isn’t going to be any “Brexit”, immigration will increase, UKIP will pick up more Tory voters.

    So the best chance, ironically, to stem the flow, and restore the Tory parties fortunes would be a good dose of Keynesian economics applied where its needed most!

    If anyone needs any help in understanding all that ……. 🙂

    • Hope
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

      Cameron does not care the Eurozone does not work, if he did he would not throw away British citizens taxes on the EU project for bail outs, CAP, Fisheries and order sovereignty of EU over the UK Parliament!

  5. APL
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    JR: “Mr Cameron has pledged to negotiate a new deal with the EU to reduce and limit their power in the UK, ”

    So Cameron will be renegotiating the Lisbon treaty?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      He cannot renegotiate a treaty which no longer exists!

      If it was possible to renegotiate the Lisbon Treaty then obviously Cameron would have gone into the last general election pledging to hold a referendum on whether we wanted him to renegotiate it, rather than deciding that despite everything he had said over the preceding two years he would just “let matters rest there” and then five years later going into the next general election promising to renegotiate it and then ask us whether we were content with what he had achieved.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:17 am | Permalink

        Indeed it seems in “Cameron think” that a treaty is not a treaty prior to ratification it is just a “proposed” or “draft” treaty and it is not one after ratification as then it is just then part of EU law.

        So it is never a treaty at all it seems. One wonder they they therefore called it the Lisbon “Treaty”. Cast Iron promises to have a referendum on “any treaty that emerges ….” are thus neatly evaded and the electorate is thus kicked in the teeth yet again.

    • Hope
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      He has nothing to negotiate with ie NO bargaining chips, other than to leave. He stated quite clearly many times he will not leave or lead the UK out of the EU.

      Perhaps he wants to spin or con the public like he did over the veto that Never was or the CON that he would not pay the extra £1.7 billion to the EU because our economy was better than others! That is the equivalence of 60,000 nurses for life with their pensions, according to Tory MEP Hannan. He negotiated nothing for the Fiscal pact, helped with bail outs despite claiming otherwise. You cannot believe a word he says. You cannot trust Cameron.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:19 am | Permalink

        Exactly zero credibility, just slightly better than Miliband/SNP.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:27 am | Permalink

      Cameron listed out his renegotiating position when he penned an article in the Guardian a while ago…..he wrote

      “Let’s end benefit tourism in Europe.
      Let’s make sure that the single market is properly safeguarded.
      Let’s make sure that parliaments can get together and block unwelcome proposals from the European Commission.
      Let’s make a series of changes to make Europe more flexible, more competitive.
      Perhaps the most important is getting Britain out of the clause that says the European Union must be committed to an ‘ever closer union’.”

      Which is all a load of airy fairy nonsense, no real powers recovered like fishing, just a load of warm words that the Brussels bureaucracy will circumvent , and in many cases won’t have to bother circumventing .

      • Lifelogic
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:09 am | Permalink

        Indeed, it is nowt but hot air, as Cameron must understand full well.

        I particularly like:

        “Let’s make sure that parliaments can get together and block unwelcome proposals from the European Commission.”

        What on earth does that mean? It is just politicians vacuous nonsense.

        • Tad Davison
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 10:57 am | Permalink

          That’s undoubtedly true LL, but he’ll certainly con some people, just like his photo ops sitting in amongst the crowd at Aston Villa to make himself look like a man of the people. Yet he clearly doesn’t know diddly squat about the club, the team, their achievements, or even that their real name isn’t West Ham!

          Tad

          • Lifelogic
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:32 am | Permalink

            One assumes his marginal seat “focus groups” told him he had to find a football team to support, easy to forget which one I suppose.

            He seems to think the coalition are repaying the debt too, and will be in the black by 2018. It is easy to get a bit confused sometimes.

    • Timaction
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:54 am | Permalink

      Juncker and Merkel have already said no renegotiation until at least 2019 and Mr Redwood knows this. More election nonsense. Only UKIP always tells the truth.

      Reply I suspect they will negotiate, but if they do not then we move straight to an In/Out referendum. If you want one you have to vote for the party that could have the votes in the Commons to deliver one.

      • forthurst
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 10:48 am | Permalink

        “Reply I suspect they will negotiate, but if they do not then we move straight to an In/Out referendum.”

        Presumably, therefore, should the ace negotiating team of Oliver Letwin and an unknown, except insofar as he will not be an English patriot or any combination of the latter, come back empty handed, CMD will go to the nation and regretfully recommend an ‘Out’ vote?

        Reply The team will be Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne, not Mr Letwin.

        • Timaction
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:17 am | Permalink

          I,d prefer a real patriot with courage and conviction to represent us not these two who have never had real life time experience. Some people who haven’t said he,d never vote to come out. Someone like….. Nigel Farage.

          • Hope
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

            Is this the same sort of negotiating team who let Hacked off into negotiations to make an agreement with Labour over the press and the Tories left to go home. Oh JR, you are a wit.

            Freedom of press ruined by Cameron, Christian marriage ruined by Cameron.nall without a mandate. Look at his behaviour in what he tried to do to Bercow!

        • forthurst
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:38 am | Permalink

          “Reply The team will be Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne, not Mr Letwin.”

          If CMD wishes to negotiate across the board, why would he not use emissaries without specific portfolios, especially as his opposite number has categorically refused to discuss renegotiation with him?

        • Tad Davison
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:53 am | Permalink

          The Tory MP, Andrew Rosindell, has just said on The Daily Politics Show, ‘This is shockingly irresponsible. Because of UKIP, we’re about to hand power to Ed Miliband and Nichola Sturgeon………..’

          That shows in the most graphic way possible, the appalling mentality of the present day Tories. They are blaming the fact that the they cannot muster enough support to beat the opposition outright, on the existence of another political party.

          If the Tories hadn’t gone down the road of EU federalism and become Labour and Lib Dem light, there probably wouldn’t even be another party to ‘blame’. They could win outright – something they haven’t done in 23 years!

          That another political party is answering the calls from the public who demand representation and honesty, is down to the Tories own failure. They allowed themselves to be influenced by the likes of Heath, Clarke, Major, and Heseltine, yet try to pin the blame for their rejection and decline on someone else.

          Talk about in denial! They really take the biscuit!

          Tad

          Reply You should not be so surprised that many people do not share the UKIP view of the world. In the latest poll I see UKIP are on 11%

          • Ken Moore
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

            Many people do not share the modern Conservative party left wing view of the world – but tribal loyalty, the threat of a Lab/SNP coalition and a few good Mp’s are keeping heads above water. The Conservatives could easily shoot the UKIP fox but the left wing lobby in the party won’t allow it…

            I suspect that many Mp’s like JR look at the increasing ethnic vote in their constituency and constantly worry they aren’t sufficiently left wing enough to attract these largely left leaning voters.
            A futile strategy in my view.

            I have a feeling another self inflicted ERM style economic disaster is just around the corner which is going to sink the Tory ship…All the Bull$$$$ in the world can’t put off the inevitable forever….

            Reply Not true of my thoughts at all, and silly to generalise so about groups of voters who vote in differing ways

          • Timaction
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

            I saw another today on 18%. Please remember the distortions and effect of London and its foreign born majority and some of our major Cities. Also remember the msm and legacy party smears to demonise my party who are ordinary people who don’t want your leaders vision on Europe or mass migration, building indefinitely on our green fields, queues and waiting lists now for all our health and public services. A lot of people simply won’t tell the pollsters their true intentions through fear and intimidation. Many examples of those in the public sector frightened to say their true intentions to vote UKIP in case they get demonised as well or victimised. Many are however starting to stand up for Britain and take back our Country despite the legacy parties.

          • Brian Tomkinson
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

            The last poll I saw said UKIP was on 18%!

          • Tad Davison
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

            Reply to reply:

            All the more reason to educate the public then John, and to show them what voting for certain parties would really mean. Why aren’t the Tories making more inroads into the support for the other parties if they have all the answers?

            I couldn’t quite tell if your reply was a veiled endorsement of the people and policies of those who have wrecked the Tory party some of us once voted for and fought for. The party whom most people now routinely reject.

            I can’t speak for others. Who they vote for is a matter for them. If the left (including a lot within the Tory party itself) could give me a convincing argument that actually made sense, my views and my allegiance would change, but alas, they don’t, so I vote with my conscience and go with the best and most logical arguments, and for the party that comes closest to them.

            Cameron, Clegg, Miliband, and Sturgeon don’t even come close! They either go back on their promises, or their policies disintegrate as soon as they’re tested.

            Tad

          • agricola
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

            Quite right Tad.

            As I have suggested today, there has been a great paucity of serious subject matter in this General Election. I would submit that this is by design of the main political parties who would wish the UK electorate to remain in ignorance of what is really happening.

            Can I suggest that every contributor, including our host, takes the time to watch and listen to U-Tube- Britain on the Brink- Paul Wilson. It clearly states what is at stake in relation to the future of the UK as a sovereign state.

            It also makes it clear that successive UK governments of Wilson, Heath, Major, Blair, and Cameron / Clegg have led us blindfolded into a relationship with Europe that we have never consented to. A piece of monumental deception. It continues today as the subject that no main political party is prepared to discuss. Most of the media led by the BBC are aiding and abetting this deliberate blind spot.

            Anyone who believes in a clear IN / OUT referendum under any of our political leaders is severely deluded. Britain on the Brink could be better named the great political con. Time to wake up and smell the deceit.

            Reply I have been openly discussing sovereignty on this site, and was pleased we got a question about the EU at the last election challenge meeting I spoke at.

          • Mondeo Man
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

            Reply to reply: “UKIP on 11% many people do not agree with them.”

            Oh yes they do agree with UKIP, John. And with the recent common sense UKIP manifesto you know it.

            These Ukippers have lent your party their support for fear of a Lab/SNP coalition.

            Your party – and the suppine Tory press – have conspired to scare a lot of them into switching tactically to avoid such an outcome.

            The appropriate response to these people should be:

            “Look. We realise that you really wanted to vote UKIP but instead, against all your instincts, chose to help us keep Lab/SNP out. We thank you and acknowledge what you’ve sacrificed and fully understand your concerns and in return we will work to address them.”

            No.

            No acknowledgement whatsoever. No apology from the sneering posh boys for calling them loons and racists and for suffocating free debate.

            (Has anyone asked why Mr Cameron wants racists to come back to his party anyway ??? I conclude that he knows full well that the people he smeared so cruelly aren’t racists.)

            Instead they have been suckered by the Tories and are being counted as blue when in fact they are purple lending their votes to you.

            Thanks for confirming it for me.

          • Chris
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

            Quite right, Tad re appalling mentality of some current Tory MPs.

            Is Mr Rosindell inferring that democracy is shocking?

        • agricola
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

          So our negotiating team is to comprise two Europhiles, who will then achieve little, but dress it up as an entire new relationship with the EU. As I have said elsewhere , immigration and welfare are mere symptoms. The real question is the sovereignty of the United Kingdom. Who proposes to regain that ,other than UKIP. There is no political party in this election other than UKIP who is at all concerned. Beyond about 100 Tory MPs and maybe 10 labour ones who is going to represent the concerns of around 60% of the population. Short of an earthquake the UK electorate will vote themselves into EU subjugation in just over one week. This election has been micro managed by the main players to talk about any irrelevant minor subject other than the key question of our sovereignty as a nation.

          • APL
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

            agricola: “So our negotiating team is to comprise two Europhiles, who will then achieve little,”

            It’s the Scottish referendum ‘playbook’ all over again.

            Promise anything, everything, then hope after the event that everyone will forget the rash promises.

            Well, with the Conservative & Unionist party being utterly wiped out in Scotland, and Labour set to follow suit, what’s the betting there will be an SNP UDI after the election?

            Tory politicians are such consummate strategists.

  6. A different Simon
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    Trouble is Mr Redwood that these people are stopping youngsters who have taken on £50,000 of debt to invest in their education from getting their start in industry .

    Similarly , over qualified migrants are taking the only jobs which less able Britons are capable of doing .

    I’d rather EU migrants were unemployed and on benefits than doing a job paying less than twice the median wage .

  7. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    All reasonable proposals Mr Redwood, however:

    If it is possible to put these measures in place under current EU law why has it not been done before?

    If putting these measures in place is not possible under current EU law how will Mr Cameron convince the representatives of those Eastern European countries which benefit greatly from the redistributed benefit wealth to acquiesce?

    Populist suggestions too late.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:39 am | Permalink

      Might I also add to the proposed measures that tax credits not be paid to immigrants until we have reached full employment and therefore require additional subsidised workers.

      Why is the taxpayer subsidising business to employ foreign unskilled workers while we pay our youth and others to stay at home? Businesses which prefer foreign workers can pay them a living wage if they are keeping a Brit on welfare.

      • A different Simon
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:25 am | Permalink

        Narrow Shoulders ,

        Almost all jobs in the UK are subsidised anyway .

        I say this because only approximately the top 10% of lifetime earners pay more in tax than they use in services/benefits .

        The majority of people are hanging on to the coat tails of the big earners and are being heavily subsidised by them .

        No political party will say this because it doesn’t fit the narrative .

        • A different Simon
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:29 am | Permalink

          How about the following ?

          Enable every British Citizen to sacrifice a proportion of their state pension entitlement .

          The immigration quota would be proportional to the size of the aggregate sacrifice .

          That way the Guardianista’s and Cameroonies would have to pay for their love of mass immigration .

          • Narrow Shoulders
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:48 am | Permalink

            @ADS

            Re your state pension sacrifice suggestion. I was under the impression that was what Workplace pensions and auto enrolment was put in place for. The phasing out of the unaffordable state pension.

            Of course MPs and other public sectoremployees will be protected from this ‘benefit’ wwithdrawal.

  8. alan jutson
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    All this is messing about with Benefits whilst useful, is really just peripheral stuff John,

    Whilst I would love to see Mr Cameron negotiate really hard on behalf of our Country, I just have this feeling that it will be token negotiations simply to satisfy an election promise made.

    I simply do not believe that his heart is really in it for one moment.

    I get a feeling that it will drag on and on and on.

    Yes I know we can vote out if negotiations are not successful, but then how will the question be worded and set out.

    • Hope
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      Tinkering at best or of no substantial value for the money he gives away, our taxes!

    • Graham
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:49 am | Permalink

      And of course you need to be able to negotiate which immediately rules out Cameron.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:24 am | Permalink

      Who will be allowed to vote if we ever get a vote? Will it be limited only to British citizens or will all living in the UK get a vote? Will the BBC continue to drip the nation in biased pro EU, “Cameron think” propaganda?

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

      Alan–Right to be apprehensive about the Question. Wonder what the Answer in Scotland would have been if the Question had been something like, Do you wish the breakup of the United Kingdom? Or if that wasn’t a runner why was there only one question? If we had had both Questions I suspect that the Answer to the second would have been nearer say 75/25 which the SNP would have had trouble glossing over.

    • fedupsouthener
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

      Don’t panic yet – they’ve not been elected as yet and it may not happen at all!

      • alan jutson
        Posted April 28, 2015 at 7:17 am | Permalink

        fedup s

        “They have not been elected yet”

        Very true, and if there is no overall winner none of the manifesto’s will be worth a bean. They will all be trashed in the name of a coalition.

  9. Ian wragg
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    A very underwhelming list
    What about the millions already here who receive benefits
    I like. ..ask if…. We are supposed to be a sovereign nation but we have to ask foreigners for permission
    I don’t recall you asking us when you relinquished the powers.

  10. Lifelogic
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    But why should anyone believe a word Cameron says? After the ratting on Cast Iron and the IHT broken promise (now replaced by a vastly inferior promise combined with yet more pension mugging).

    We can only judge Cameron types on their actions not what they say.

    Anyway it is his beloved EU that will tell him what he can and cannot do on these issues.

    Furthermore his chances of an overall majority are tiny anyway despite the best efforts of Miliband/SNP to help the Tories.

    • Man of Kent
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

      Quite agree !

      Since 2010 we seem to have danced to the EU tune over :

      HS2
      Gay marriage
      Energy policy
      Immigration
      Foreign policy
      DFID
      The European Arrest Warrant
      and Austerity [ we haven’t had any !]

      No doubt there are many others I have missed !

  11. Denis Cooper
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    “to base the relationship more centrally around membership of the single market.”

    But free movement of persons has always been a central principle of the single market, right back to the 1957 Treaty of Rome establishing what was then called the Common Market. Article 3(c) of that treaty called for: “the abolition, as between Member States, of obstacles to freedom of movement for persons, services and capital”.

  12. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Can we add “no ifs, no buts” to achieving that list just like the 2010 promise to reduce immigration to tens of thousands? Does anyone in your party honestly believe that the EU will agree to these changes even though they have repeatedly said they won’t?
    Even the most optimistic Conservative must realise that in the unlikely event of any of these policy changes being achieved there will still be no control over the numbers of people able to come and live here from the other EU states.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:53 am | Permalink

      Indeed. It is all pre election hot air. He has not even promised to deliver this time on the pre election hot air he gave us in 2010 on IHT or on the EU. The man simply has zero credibility, he chose to throw it all away in a duff deal with the LibDims.

      He threw the last election with his cast iron ratting and Clegg TV debates and the rot started from then on.

      This election would be a sitting duck had he shown some sensible vision, sorted out fair boundaries, moved more towards UKIP’s position and not thrown away all his credibility.

      Still he gave gender neutral insurance and annuities, HS2, lots & lots of pointless green crap expensive energy ugly wind turbines, bombed Libya, 299+ tax increases and endless other lefty insanities.

      Better than Miliband just perhaps, but then who would not be?

    • Timaction
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      Nail on the head. If you want control of our borders we must leave the EU dictatorship. We can then be an independent sovereign state again or under the junker (control ed).

  13. Denis Cooper
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Off-topic, JR, in your personal opinion, will billboards depicting Alex Salmond as a thief picking the pocket of an English taxpayer:

    a) Help to foster easy and cordial relations between the English and the Scots, whether or not the political union of England and Scotland continues; or

    b) Help to stir up intensified antagonism between the English and the Scots, making it more likely that the political union will no longer be sustainable.

    Similarly, will new rules on busking which will allegedly ban the bagpipes from London be helpful in maintaining good relations between these two classes of UK citizens?

    Meanwhile, there has been a shocking revelation: that MPs belonging to a party which is committed to achieving independence for Scotland will use their position in Parliament to agitate and campaign and work in favour of independence for Scotland.

  14. Iain Moore
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    These weren’t Cameron’s proposals . Prior to his much delayed big speech on immigration he sent out feelers to Merkel and Junker to find out what policies they would agree to. They told him that any limits to immigration were unacceptable but that he might be allowed to tinker around the edges to welfare access. So that is what Cameron offered us, he represented Brussels policies to us, rather than represent our interests.

    It should also be noted that Cameron’s bluster about holding Brussels to ransom over immigration and not allowing further expansion of the EU with out an agreement on immigration has disappeared, for in the dog days of this Parliament he had Parliament accept the demands of Brussels to set in motion the inclusion of Bosnia and Herzegovina into the EU.

  15. The Prangwizard
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    Are we expected to be impressed? Is this intended us to convince us that Cameron is a real and determined leader and your party intends to get a real grip on things? It all sounds really weak and tired.

    And, by the way, where is he, and where are those countering the Marxist proposals of Mr Miliband; it’s as if they may have a sympathy with him and are happy to leave him to get on with it in their future absence. Or maybe they don’t understand and thus can’t explain the serious problems which will arise. I don’t think Mr Cameron, for one, has the intellectual capacity or understanding to do so.

    It is no good just shouting that Miliband is a danger, people will not be convinced by that; it must be explained, because most ordinary people, nor those in the broadcast media, have no experience of the drastic effects of State control of the means of ‘production, distribution and exchange’ and the attack on freedom this represents. This is what he will attempt to bring back if he is able to put together a Socialist grouping in the next parliament.

    Even yourself, an advocate of state control of wages in your support for the minimum wage and an extension of it must bear your share of responsibility for the atmosphere which helps to pave a socialist road.

  16. Bob
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    “He wishes to regain more UK Parliamentary control over the UK’s borders and welfare policies, to hit his target of a substantial reduction in net migration into the UK.”

    He can wish all he likes, but we know what the outcome will be.

    “He has stated that he will legislate for the In/Out referendum in the first 100 days of a Conservative government.”

    Legislate in two years time after he has taken measures to ensure a “stay in” vote, by gerrymandering, false assurances of (temporary) reform from the EU Commission and a propaganda campaign heavily weighted to guarantee the desired outcome. Anyone who was around in 1975 will remember the lies, spin and deceit that were used to con the people into believing that they were voting for a simple trade agreement.

    Dave has no intention of leaving the EU regardless of the outcome of the vote.
    Carswell and Reckless saw through his hollow promise and it surprises me that that you haven’t.

    • Timaction
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

      30/1048 from FCO in 1971 tells the complete truth about the lying cartel.

  17. ajorfrustration
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    Meanwhile whilst DC is (if) negotiating these changes this country will still be taken advantage of.
    Given the quality of border control one just has to smile at some of likely controls that DC will seek to negotiate – how exactly do we find these immigrates who have not found a job in six months- can you see them saying that they have not found a job. As for limiting child benefits yet again I doubt if the civil service will be able to match the rhetoric of the politicians as to what can be achieved.
    Agree regarding no out of work benefits but in addition to this immigrants should also be required to buy into some form of health insurance/health bond.
    My overall concerns are that DC is happy to talk but very unlikely to do anything.

  18. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    JR: “Mr Cameron has pledged to negotiate a new deal with the EU to reduce and limit their power in the UK, and to base the relationship more centrally around membership of the single market.”
    If not meaningless, this is misleadingly unrealistic. I doubt we will ever see any specific details of this. Ah you will say, if Mr Cameron doesn’t achieve this we can vote to leave in the subsequent referendum. However, we know that the same Mr Cameron is determined to keep us in the EU come what may. When has he ever articulated that he wants the UK to have (if it were possible, which it isn’t) a minor role within the EU? Do you seriously believe that the other member states of the EU and the commission will agree to any meaningful return of powers to the UK? What about the other 27 member countries will they want and/or get powers returned too? The very idea is laughable when they are determined to arrive at their original goal of a political and economic union in the form of a country called Europe.
    We are left with the depressingly familiar prospect, to those of us around in 1975, of a re-run of Wilson’s deception aided and abetted by big business, the metropolitan elite and the media.

    • fedupsouthener
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

      I need a drink!

  19. Bert Young
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    When JR responded to the question put to him at the meeting in Earley he must have felt uncomfortable . Each of the points mentioned in the reply were simply “pledged” to negotiate . The promises made by Cameron in the past have not been followed through with the punch and insistence the public have expected and this lack of determination lies at the feeling of mistrust I – and others , have in his leadership .

    I am not surprised there is already mention of a leadership revolt in the ranks of the Conservatives putting Boris in the spotlight . Once the election is out of the way , the rumour is a challenge will be on the cards . There is no doubt that the campaign led by Cameron has lacked the dynamism expected ; he has made it easy for his challengers to gain attention and support .

    The last thing I want is a Labour / SNP sort of an alliance that will lead to a state of communist inspired management of this country . Leadership does sway public opinion ; sadly Cameron leaves a lot to be desired .

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:04 am | Permalink

      The problem with Cameron is less a lack of dynamism than his history.

      • JoeSoap
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:51 am | Permalink

        Really, Cameron’s image is one of unfocussed lake of dynamism, Whether this is indeed just an image, and he is working frantically underneath like the proverbial duck it is difficult to say but somehow this part of the image could be the truth. It has to be said that Thatcher and Blair had a different aura, and they lasted more than a Parliament.

        • Timaction
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

          Cameron/Osborne have a plan. They just haven’t told us what it is. We know his economic plan has left us £1.5 trillion in debt. He’s enshrined 0.7% foreign aid (£12 billion), reduced our military and police, whilst bombing Libya and aggravating the Russians to be loved up by the Americans. Then he gave us gay marriage and £14.5 billion bill for the EU. But remember he wasn’t going to pay the £1.5 billion surcharge on 1st December. He paid it in January instead. He claims to have vetoed a treaty that didn’t exist. He supported the bail out of Greece via the IMF whilst claiming we weren’t helping. The above renegotiation described by Mr Redwood is wholly……………..inadequate and frankly ridiculous like all of his cast iron guarantees or no ifs or buts promises. We want our sovereign democracy returned and nothing less is acceptable.

          Reply He did veto an EU fiscal treaty and kept us out of the non EU agreement they then reached.

          • Timaction
            Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

            ……………….He did veto an EU fiscal treaty and kept us out of the non EU agreement they then reached…………..

            There was no written treaty to veto and he allowed subsequent treaty change for illegal bailouts without anything in return from the EU e.g. Welfare reform?
            He also allowed the EU institutions to be used.
            Please remind me who insisted in 2011 for a vote in Parliament that EU law was superior to that of the UK? Mr Cameron who is John Majors mentor. Remind me who signed the Maastricht Treaty allowing the free movement of people and capital? Once again he just forgot to ask us the citizens you tax to pay for your EU political union.
            UKIP cannot be argued on ANY policy.

  20. Atlas
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    Far too little – and given Cameron’s enjoyment of being part of the EU power structure – an insincere ‘promise’.

    Off topic: Is it just my household or are others also bored rigid by now? The argument for returning to non-fixed-term Parliaments is compelling since we would return to having a short election campaign.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:38 am | Permalink

      Agreed. In fact the fixed-term parliament act should have been subject to a referendum anyway as it is a major constitutional change which was not in the parties manifesto.

  21. Denis Cooper
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Off-topic, again, Antony Wells has produced an interesting article:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9380

    “The Static Campaign”

    “The defining feature of voting intention in this election is how little it has moved. The graph below shows the UK Polling Report polling average for each week so far of 2015.”

    “Is there still time for a change, or are we doomed to have election result around about where we are, with the Conservatives and Labour pretty much neck-and-neck?”

    For some time my own feeling has been that there is no longer anything much that any of the parties could do which would produce a big shift in public opinion and change the overall outcome of the election, so I hope that Her Majesty’s civil servants are ready to knock Tory and Labour heads together and force them to accept the obvious solution to that “biggest constitutional crisis since Edward VIII abdicated in 1936” which is now being predicted by the Tory candidate here, should the voters fail to give her party the largest number of seats in the Commons so she can carry on as Home Secretary.

    Reply I also read there has been a lot of change amongst voters, but so far the movements have been self cancelling in terms of the national averages. Swings in individual seats may prove different depending on where and which parties are standing and running well or badly in that place.

  22. Roy Grainger
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    “Asking anyone who has been in the UK from the rest of the EU looking for a job to leave if they have not found one in 6 months.”

    That is not only impossible to “negotiate” with the EU as it fundamentally conflicts with freedom of movement but it is also totally unenforceable – how exactly do you know which EU citizens are here and “looking for a job” in the first place ? What is the point of “asking them to leave” – do you mean deport them ? How do you define “a job”, does it include the self-employed (builders etc.) ? If they do 1 day of work in 6 months can they stay ? How would you prevent them returning on the next flight ? It is just idiotic. To implement this one you need to leave the EU, full stop.

    • JoeSoap
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:47 am | Permalink

      It is tosh. Another statement which sounds good but which a minute’s thought leads to the conclusion that this is never going to happen.

      Far better to rely on the one party which doesn’t make stupid promises.

      • fedupsouthener
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

        Yes, all one big fantasy which Cameron hopes the public will swallow hook, line and sinker. They are not even aware of who is entering the UK let alone if they are working or not. I just wonder how much crime is being committed while we have open borders?

    • zorro
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

      As you mention, totally unenforceable nonsense….. And how will you make them leave? Pay for their flight? Have you seen the reductions in the Home Office budget over the next five years? You are having a laugh John!

      zorro

  23. DaveM
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    When it comes to the EU, all the main parties try to placate the British public with talks of benefits, work permits, or whatever, stemming immigration and so on.

    What they don’t seem to get is:

    (As I’ve mentioned here before) – hypothetically you could bring in 1 million immigrants a year, build them houses, give them cash and play music for them when they’re feeling poorly BUT IT HAS TO BE OUR CHOICE, not the choice of the German Chancellor and some foreigner in a made up job in Brussels. That’s the issue.

    • JoeSoap
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

      That sounds like a sovereignty issue. No re-negotiation will return that to you.

      • DaveM
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

        Precisely Joe.

        I’m not interested in any negotiation whatsoever. Sovereignty and self-determination is everything.

        I’d rather sink in my own ship than be a galley slave in a floating one.

        Reply I fully understand that feeling. The only way I an see for you to have a chance to vote for Out of the EU is to follow the Conservative lead of negotiation followed by referendum. No poll put UKIP anywhere near winning to be able to enact out of the EU.

        • JoeSoap
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

          Reply to reply
          Sorry, too may stupid promises across the board by Liblabcon for that to happen.

        • Timaction
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

          Exactly. Who wants to be a star on someone else’s flag. If a political solution cannot be reached there will be serious trouble caused by the utter failure of the legacy parties not getting any mandate for the betrayal over many years with the cartels EU political project.
          UKIP will get MP’s. That will firmly plant the seed that we can get elected and the following election we will get more seats. The tide is turning. Just a few years ago none of what is now happening would have been possible………..thanks to UKIP.Having canvassed and leafleted for many weeks I feel change is on the way as the truth is told.

          • Mondeo Man
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

            The UKIP tide will turn in the coming years. The bad news will just keep coming.

        • APL
          Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

          JR: “The only way I an see for you to have a chance to vote for Out of the EU is to follow the Conservative lead of negotiation followed by referendum. ”

          You don’t really believe that guff do you Mr Redwood?

          Reply Yes I do That is why I have stayed in the Conservative party as the only way I can see of having a chance to sort out this EU problem.

          • Timaction
            Posted April 28, 2015 at 7:26 am | Permalink

            ………………stayed in the Conservative Party………..that ship left a l0ng time ago. I suppose we all reach conclusions on reality at different times!

        • DaveM
          Posted April 28, 2015 at 7:32 am | Permalink

          My constituency is Lab or Con neck and neck so for me no point voting Ukip even if I wanted to. Although it has to be said, the Ukip vote is what has reduced Lab’s lead so they have helped you a bit! Unfortunately, LibDem voters have topped up Lab’s share. Seems to be reflective of the national trend.

  24. Kenneth
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    I think for the PM to base our membership of the eu on the single market is a mistake. The ‘single market’ is not a free market.

    It is rather a series of prescriptive regulations which favour the large corporates and state-run industries at the expense of an efficient free market.

    The ‘single market’ has echoes of the manufacturing regime in the Soviet Union where giant factories churned out a limited range of products using state-approved specifications, regardless of the needs of the market.

    Things are not that bad right now but, as the ‘single market’ becomes increasingly tied up in regulations and large corporations use them as a way of keeping out competition, we will indeed end up with large too-big-to-fail uncompetitive monsters.

    Put it this way: what happened to the banks will happen to European industry. Just watch as state-run and large corporates merge into the same thing and the small, agile competitive free market is frozen out.

  25. Malcolm Browne
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Why does not Mr. Cameron not say something about stopping the stream of migrants from non EU countries. He could tackle this without any EU re-negotiations. There are untold thousands of potential non EU immigrants waiting to enter England, having travelled across several EU countries that are apparently unsuitable for them to settle in. Could the lavish payments of benefits here have something to do with this. Cameron is all hot air. He keeps saying ‘we will do this’ and ‘we will do that’, but nothing ever happens. He’s had 5 years, so let’s have a proper Tory leader.

    • backofanenvelope
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:53 am | Permalink

      Spot on Malcolm! Perhaps our host could explain why we don’t just stop allowing non-EU migrants to settle here? They could come for work (if they have a job) or study, but then they have to go home. With their children.

  26. JoeSoap
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Now for Question 2:

    Which Conservative proposals for ridding small businesses of red tape are being promised now, which weren’t promised already in 2010 and remain undelivered?

    In your answer, you might like to think about those areas of tighter employment regulation around temporary staff, minimum wages, new pensions NEST obligations, new VAT online rules which have been IMPOSED since 2010 by himself.

    The more I think about it, the more this type of Cameron tosh makes me see red, or in the end, purple!

  27. ian
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    In 5 years time with GDP forecast to be 2.3 trillion pounds overseas aid budget will be
    16.1 billion pounds

  28. mick
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    He has stated that he will legislate for the In/Out referendum in the first 100 days of a Conservative government.
    All very good apart from one small thing, if the conservatives are in coalition with the lib/dem`s theres not a cat in hell`s chance of referendum on the EU and you know it

  29. miami.mode
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Sorry to pour some cold water on your post, but “asking” those who have not secured a job within 6 months to leave is pure Sgt Wilson from Dad’s Army.

    Bearing in mind the fact that the EU now considers street-walking and drug dealing to be part of our GDP, I assume that, illegality aside, despite the fact it is doubtful they will contribute any in-work taxes, they will be considered to be having a job.

    In my opinion very few of our people realise quite how much the EU rules our lives and consequently it is almost a Sisyphean task in bringing about an exit even if we ever get a referendum.

    • Ken Moore
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

      Good luck Mr Redwood with explaining Mr Camerons re-negotiation strategy – another complete dog’s breakfast of a policy you have been lumbered with.

      Indeed, I’m sure each jobless migrant will dutifully turn up at a local government office and hand themselves in for deportation and leave quietly. A quick ‘ I say old chap, would you mind going home now will suffice’.

      And ecomic migrants from very poor countries are going to be put off coming here, in there thousands for relatively well paid jobs and free healthcare because of a bit of tinkering with the healthcare system.

      And there won’t be a crowd of human rights lawyers screeching for them to be allowed to stay playing the ‘human rights’ card.

      Does anyone at Conservative HQ actually ever leave Whitehall and speak to real people ?

      • Ken Moore
        Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

        *tinkering with the welfare system

  30. Mondeo Man
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    The migration situation has reached crisis point.

    These plans need to be shouted from the roof tops in the coming weeks and a vote for Tory must be taken as a mandate for a pledge which MUST this time be honoured.

    For far too long the taxpayer has been subsidising a surfeit of cheap labour to the advantages of big business and to the great detriment of the ordinary people of this country.

    The benefits of mass immigration are much vaunted and yet the considerable costs are never counted.

    This most important issue has been subject of a blackout. This is a disgrace.

    The floodgates have now opened and I doubt very much (despite people like me warning you of this for years now) that you can control it.

    Mr Cameron states that any rescued refugees will not be given asylum in Britain.

    The usual deceit on his part. He knows full well that a refugee granted asylum by Italy is our refugee by virtue the free movement of people in the EU.

    However. If you want a landslide election victory tough talk such as this will do it. The people will be fooled. You’ll win a majority for the first time in 22 years.

    You and I know full well it’s over for most people in this country. After Maastricht, Libya and support of Iraq I’m never voting Tory again and I simply don’t trust David Cameron to honour his word.

    The Tories started mass immigration and now it seems laughable – with the rate of change as it is – that there can possibly be a party that stands for conservatism. In any case it’s quite possible that conservatism would be classed as illegal because of race and equality laws.

    • Mondeo Man
      Posted April 27, 2015 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

      PS. Did you say ‘ask’ them to leave ???

      Typical DC. With him you really have to listen out for the small print.

  31. ian
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    In this election you have clear choice, communism or socialism because that what keynesian QE means establishment control through central government, till QE has gone you are in a state of COMMUNISM. I think you will fined its German idea. It will take everything you have till it all belongs to the state. it start your saving then your wages then your job and then your house.

  32. Anonymous
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    BBC bias is outrageous. The kid glove treatment by Evan Davies of Sturgeon compared to his aggressive hectoring of Farage is obvious.

    Scrapping the BBC would be a good move.

  33. Bill
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    All this seems to show that once politicians lose the trust of the voters, they can say what they like but the polls don’t move in their favour.

  34. Boudicca
    Posted April 27, 2015 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    So much for the “significant repatriation of powers” and “a fundamental renegotiation of our terms of membership” which Mr Cameron promised.

    It comes down to tinkering with the welfare rules IF the EU permits it …. which is unlikely.

    Merkel, Hollande, Juncker and others have already clearly said there will be no special deal for the UK and there will be no re-opening of the Treaties. Juncker has said no treaty negotiations will take place before 2019 at the earliest.

    There is no point listening to Cameron waffle on about what he proposes ….. he isn’t going to get it. And he will NEVER advocate leaving the EU under any circumstances.

    The Conservative Party has been THE party of the EU for the past 50 years. It isn’t going to change now.

    • A different Simon
      Posted April 28, 2015 at 6:01 am | Permalink

      Can you imagine Cameron’s backtracking if Merkel , Hollande and Junker had called his bluff and agreed to renegotiation ?

  35. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted April 28, 2015 at 1:08 am | Permalink

    There have been very few specifics about the government’s renegotiation stance since the very general Bloomberg speech of early in 2013. In fact, tackling the immigration problem by delaying entitlement to benefits by 4 years appears to be the only one.

    Many of us make a distinction between the current Single Market (which has come about as a result of adding to the trade liberalisation of the Single European Act, EC directives authorised by the Maastricht, Amsterdam, Nice and Lisbon Treaties) and genuine free markets. We much prefer the latter. To attain that objective will involve the repeal of UK Acts of Accession to those treaties and re-establishing the supremacy of UK law.

    This is the type of issue emphasised by Douglas Carswell when he jumped ship to UKIP. Douglas’s request for clarification of the PM’s negotiating stance has never been answered. In that respect, it’s like the West Lothian question.

    As I write, there are ten days to go to polling and we are making only slight headway in winning back UKIP supporters. If the PM wants more of them to come back, he has to offer them something of what they want. It is no use saying “Trust me.” because they clearly don’t.

    Reply I have made clear what I want by way of a new relationship with the EU

    • Timaction
      Posted April 28, 2015 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      We’re not coming back! The Tory party left many years ago. Get real. Watch their actions not their words or rhetoric. EU supremacy votes, EU surcharge payments, free movement, welfare for all, HIV treatment for anyone etc.

      • Mondeo Man
        Posted April 28, 2015 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

        Tim – I’m afraid they probably are going back but only on loan – having been terrified by the Tory press as the prospect of a Lab/SNP coalition. However they are not being thanked nor acknowledged for their sacrifice.

        Anyway. David Cameron said UKIP were racists – if he really thought so then why does he want such support back ?

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted April 29, 2015 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply

      That is acknowledged but it would help if the Prime Minister were more explicit.

  36. Richard
    Posted April 28, 2015 at 2:34 am | Permalink

    “He has stated that he will legislate for the In/Out referendum in the first 100 days of a Conservative government.”

    There will be no referendum until 2019 at the earliest as Mr. Cameron has said a referendum will follow after negotiations have taken place and the EU have made it clear that there will be no negotiations until at least 2019.

    Also, how will Mr. Cameron get this legislation through Parliament when most of his MPs, let alone those of the Lab/Lib/SNP/Green parties will be voting against ?

    So anyone who wants the UK to exit the EU is wasting their vote voting Conservative. Particularly as Mr. Cameron will take every vote for the Conservative Party as a vote for his policies to not only remain in the EU but also for the EU to expand further to include Turkey and all the countries between the Atlantic and the Urals.

    Reply Every Conservative candidate is pledged to vote for a referendum to take place by 2017, and they will do so. I know of no Conservative candidate whose personal manifesto opts out of this.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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