Corbyn 4 Labour 0

Mr Corbyn has defeated a Labour party prepared to make compromises to win elections. Now watch as he goes on to attack middle England. He will condemn success, tax achievement and seek to undermine self reliance.

Mr Corbyn promises to make inequality the main issue. The government should reply by making poverty the main issue.

Mr Corbyn’s policy is to reduce inequality by taxing the rich more. If, for example, he went the whole way and said all income and wealth held by the top ten percent in excess of the rest would be taxed away he would immediately make the UK a much more equal society. He would also make it much poorer.

Many of the rich would go, taking their assets with them. Some of the rich who stayed would work less, cut their income, find legal ways of reducing their wealth, make fewer riskier investments, create fewer jobs. This would in itself cut inequality and make the rich poorer, in line with Mr Corbyn’s aims.

It would also make many lower income people poorer. It would mean fewer jobs in the luxury trades, fewer jobs providing goods and services for the rich and famous. Great footballers, singers, actors would leave the country, and with them would go the demand they create for goods and services. We would all be poorer. It would mean fewer new and successful companies and the career opportunities they offer.

Most people in the UK are not jealous of success. They accept that great entertainers, sports people, entrepreneurs should earn large sums based on their skills, subject to progressive taxation at sensible levels.

Most of us want the state to help tackle poverty. We want inequality to reduce because people on low or no incomes are becoming better off. That is the purpose of the Conservative tax cuts, taking people on low incomes out of Income Tax altogether. That is the purpose of welfare reform, to make work worthwhile. That is the purpose of education reform, to give more people the chance of a good schooling. That is the purpose of pro enterprise policies, encouraging more people to work for themselves or to set up in business and create jobs for others.

Conservatives should answer Mr Corbyn’s politics of jealousy with our politics of aspiration. We need to show we can help lift more people out of low and no incomes, and help more people to own their own homes, businesses, and savings. Conservatives want an inclusive society, where everyone can become an owner, and where the many have the opportunity of a good education and a good job. Mr Corbyn wants a divided society, where the better off are hounded, and everyone ends up worse off.

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118 Comments

  1. Lifelogic
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    Indeed this is all true.

    You say “Conservatives should answer Mr Corbyn’s politics of jealousy with our politics of aspiration.”

    Indeed they should. Yet the current leadership have just increases taxes and tax complexity hugely in the last budget. They think they can decided how much companies can afford to pay staff, they continue with their expensive energy policies, they subsidise film production, but tax other businesses into leaving and liquidating. They continue to further mug private pensions like as Brown did. They even now disallow legitimate costs of business from tax computations.

    Meanwhile they run an appalling, rapidly deteriorating and severely rationed NHS, lots of very second rate schools, pay for endless second rate degrees in largely pointless non subjects and subsidise the BBC with its objectionable propaganda agenda.

    We need incentives to work, and selective immigration, need to stop pissing money down the drain on endless dross like HS2 and greencrap. Above all we need to cut the levels and complexity of the suffocating tax system and welcome the rich and hard working not push them away.

    Had Osborne kept his £1M IHT promise of 8? years ago instead of ratting on it (while having the chutzpah to claim he was keeping it) it would have been a very good start.

    Lower taxes, less waste, more efficiency, cheaper energy, simpler taxes, fewer daft regulations, far less EU, more people doing useful thing and working productively and efficiently, Fewer people inconveniencing the productive. This government is largely the opposite it is just Corbyn light in essence.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:40 am | Permalink

      I see that Corbyn wants another huge tax on the banks. This of course, given the lack of competition, in banking would be yet another tax on industry, jobs and business.

      Due to the current absurd banking regulations and slotting rules I am being obliged currently to pay for several very expensive “red book” valuations on properties. An entirely pointless waste of money and effort due to poorly designed bank regulations and slotting rules. The costs do not fall on the banks they largely end up falling on commercial and residential tenants. This on top of the daft and hugely inconvenient tenant deposit protection scheme. It was always landlords who usually lost out due to the slow and poor legal system when tenants fail to pay rent for months on end. This on top of the costs of the pointless energy EPS certificates.

      Cut taxes, cut waste, cut regulation and grow the overall economy, rather than endlessly suffocating it. We need a larger cake not damaging arguments over its allocation. The market will allocate it best with a government safely net only for the very few who really need one.

      • Mercia
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

        As I understand it the Deutsche Bank is holding dubious financial products known as “derivatives”, worth 65 trillion euros. This amount is similar to the GDP of the entire world. Lehman Brothers went bankrupt with derivatives of only 31.5 trillion.

    • Richard1
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:46 am | Permalink

      You are rather inclined to see the glass half empty! Sure it would be better if the govt did not waste our money on the likes of HS2 and green crap. But: it’s quite likely the budget will come into balance; welfare is being sensibly reformed; education is being reformed and improved; legislation is coming in to curb the power of public sector unions to blackmail; taxes have been slightly reduced in some areas (I agree not enough). There will even be an EU referendum. With the threat of a hard left fanatic getting his hands on power, those who believe in freedom and prosperity need to get behind the only party with a hope of delivering it in practice.

      • DaveM
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

        Quite right. The best way to stay in power is to make everyone’s life better so they vote for you again. The Tories have got 5 years to do that!

        RWC starts next week. The All Blacks don’t moan about what the other team might do if it gets the ball – they just keep hold of the ball and do it better than the other side. Simple.

      • Rita Webb (Mrs)
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

        You have got to be kidding! Osborne has doubled the national debt, increased spending on benefits (see JR’s articles passim) so there is little chance of the budget being balanced either. When things go all funny again, there is nothing to suggest that he would behave any differently to Labour with a bank, building society or insurance company that needs a tax payer funded bail out of its directors. The “hard left fanatic” moved into No. 11 Downing St in 2010.

        Reply The deficit will be eliminated before the end of this Parliament on current plans.

        • scottspeig
          Posted September 14, 2015 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

          To Reply – But wasn’t that the plan in the last govt? And yet we are still spending more than we earn.

          Why is it, that we cannot just suggest that in 2 years time, we can only spend 95% of the previous years income? It gives a heads up to everyone that it’s happening and would deal with the deficit straight away while allowing us to put 5% towards the debt.

      • Lifeligic
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

        The last budget was a huge tax raising (and tax complexity increasing) budget. On top of that Osborne ratted on his £1M IHT promise and stopped landlords even deducting legitimate expenses. Worse still he thinks he is the person to decide wage levels in companies (companies he knows nothing whatsoever at all about). From all I hear about cancelled, delayed and poorly performed operations the NHS (Cameron’s priority in three letters) it is just falling apart.

        Osborne is almost as daft as Corbyn in some respects even worse and worse still he is in power.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 5:41 am | Permalink

        True they are the only party with a hope of delivering it but why are they so poorly led and half their membership essentially LibDim? Winning the last election (just) only thanks to the hopelessness of Miliband and mainly thanks to the fact that no one in England wanted a Nicola Sturgeon tail wagging the English dog.

        It was an election they could have won far more easily had they just proposed sound policies for jobs and growth, lower taxes and a much smaller state. This instead of the tax, borrow and waste, pro EU, pension mugging, greencrap and the IHT ratting line.

    • JoeSoap
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      Indeed.
      If the Tory party leaves an OPEN GOAL on all these plus – no real action on banks and bankers, which were actually named in Corbyn’s speech unlike most of the rhetoric in this post, then it would ill behove Mr Corbyn not to nudge the ball into the net.

      • JoeSoap
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:52 am | Permalink

        By this post I mean the original post.

    • mickc
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:25 am | Permalink

      I entirely agree with you. This government is Blairist, and people are fed up with PR and spin.

      Corbyn’s success is because he seems genuine. The Tories should consider him a real danger, especially as the EU negotiation is a farce, and the economy starts to unravel.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

        mickc

        Yeh Corbyn is genuine, a man of principle and firmly held beliefs , that s what they tell us. So how come a man who has been anti EU for 40 years lasted just 24 hours before throwing those beliefs and principles away and has suddenly become pro EU?

      • REPay
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

        I agree that Corbyn is affable and direct, the Tories should be careful to be seen as crying wolf and sounding shrill (a few have done so already) until his policies become clearer. His tone of voice seems popular with many. Play the policies not the man is my advice.

  2. Richard1
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    Yes it back to the 1970s and the politics of envy from Labour. There is no evidence the country is up in arms about ‘inequality’. Sure it’s irritating to see a few undeserved fat cats get too much but most people are focused on their own family’s circumstances. The overwhelming evidence from decades in the UK and around the world is free market capitalism and democracy is the best way by far of spreading mass prosperity and political and social stability. Mr corbyn is not a breath of fresh air as suggested by many commentators courtesy of the BBC, he is a relic of the hard left policies of labour in the 60s and 70s, complete with objections to the existence of any element of the press which doesn’t agree with him. Nor is it a mass swelling of support for his divisive and irrelevant drivel. 1-2% of the electorate – the hard left fanatics- have flocked to buy a vote in this ridiculous leadership election (itself a final legacy of the fatuousness of Mr Miliband!). The large majority will reject corbyns negative and backward looking socialism.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:48 am | Permalink

      You say “The large majority will reject Corbyns negative and backward looking socialism.” Hopefully they will and the Conservative party will also tell Osborne to stop his backward looking (tax, borrow, inconvenience and piss down the drain) socialism too.

      This or they should replace him, as soon as possible, and get someone with policies that will work for the productive and grow the GDP.

      • Bob
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

        In view of his last Finance Bill I trust that Mr Osborne will now refrain from pledges to simplify the tax code.

    • Mercia
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 10:37 am | Permalink

      The overwhelming evidence from decades in the UK and around the world is free market capitalism and democracy is the best way by far of spreading mass prosperity

      >
      Its not a free market and the most corrupt institutions and organisations are operating without serious competition.

      • Richard1
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

        Any examples?

        • Mercia
          Posted September 14, 2015 at 10:13 am | Permalink

          Ecigarettes could save millions of lives but the EU are intent on regulating them into extinction or dreaming up clever ways to hand the entire industry over to Big Pharma, thereby putting small business (like me) who saw an opportunity before Big pharma did, out of business.

          Likewise in Sweden a few years ago an alternative to smoking tobacco was created that was predicted to save 3 million lives a year called Snus but was killed by EU regulation to preserve the profits and interests of Big Pharma NRT products (which do not work).

        • Mercia
          Posted September 14, 2015 at 10:23 am | Permalink

          Death by regulation: the EU ban on low-risk oral tobacco

    • Mercia
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 10:57 am | Permalink

      Mr corbyn is not a breath of fresh air as suggested by many commentators

      >
      He is compared to Blairites and phony’s and I am sorry but I believe Cameron to be a Blairite and Osborne to be a phony. I like Torys like David Davis, Liberatarians wary of big government and the State. Those who get into politics only to control the enemy within (which is them). I think Peter Hitchens sums up my feelings on the matter this morning (although I do not agree with his views on the death penalty).

      • Mercia
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

        I will change my mind about Cameron IF he develops a mind of his own over the Syria crisis and does not just do what Obama tells him. At the moment he has adopted the same good cop/bad cop tactic that Blair and Clinton used before the Kosovo war.

        Foreign Policy is the perfect reason we we need older and wiser PMs and the only reason I am glad Corbyn was elected.

    • Hefner
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

      Check your figures: 251417 have voted Corbyn, the electorate in 2013 was 46139900 (ONS), to me that makes 5.4% of “hard-left fanatics”.

      • David Price
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

        On your numbers it would make 0.5449 % are “hard left fanatics”

      • libertarian
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

        Hefner if I were you I’d check your figures

        46 million electorate

        Corbyn 251,000

        I think that means 0.54% of hard left fanatics . a very very very tiny proportion of voters

        • Hefner
          Posted September 14, 2015 at 9:08 am | Permalink

          Oops, indeed. Apologies for that.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

        251K is barely 5% of the UKIP vote at the last election.

        I think you mean half a percent of the electorate.

      • Richard1
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

        Sorry old chap you are illustrating a point Lifelogic often makes: there is a danger when innumerate people make public comment. You are out by 1 order of magnitude.?

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 7:32 am | Permalink

        0.54%.

    • bigneil
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

      Richard -I totally agree with your last sentence. There could well be a lot of Labour supporters/voters would not want him, but neither do they want Cameron’s lies. Add this onto the millions of disgruntled Conservative voters who are sick of the lies, and two-faced “promise-anything-to-get-votes, but renege-straight-away” attitude from this govt. Neither want to vote for the other side – this could turn out VERY well for UKIP, the only party who said what was going to happen with mass immigration, was ridiculed for it – and is now being proved right. Neither Lab or Con want to stop this deliberately engineered invasion, which is clearly being done to remove “England”, and it’s people, from the map.

      Austerity cuts for us – -a bottomless pit of money for unlimited non-contributing foreigners to sit here and take. Unsustainable – but still not stopped. There is no need to wonder why.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

        bigneil

        This is a genuine question, can you explain to me what an austerity cut is please

      • Richard1
        Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

        Not sure you are right. I think the Conservatives would very much like to stop it but are at rather a loss as to how to.

  3. Martin
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    One dangerous policy of Mr Corbyn is his opposition to the third Heathrow runway.

    • Lifeligic
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

      Indeed but just like Cameron and Boris. Get another runway at both Gatwick and Heathrow now. And an HS train link for them.

    • yulwaymartyn
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

      There is absolutely no point in having a third runway at Heathrow unless you can get there. The infrastructure – both road and rail – is a joke. Last time I used Heathrow on a Sunday it took 3 hours to get there. A journey of less than fifty miles.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 9:07 am | Permalink

        yulwaymartyn

        For once I totally agree with you.

        Absolutely no strategic thought ever goes into theses decisions

    • Richard1
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

      But apparently he is against Hs2 which is positive!

  4. Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    JR,

    There is something in what you say. I don’t believe we need to dispossess the rich to achieve our social ends. Simply, if the wealthy are accumulating wealth which they aren’t spending, the we just borrow it back from them and spend it on useful projects. That does raise the question of how much interest they are entitled to. Providing it’s not more than inflation I don’t have a problem paying some interest. PQE would mean the welathy would get no interest at all and I’d be wary of going too far down that track. Maybe just a few small experiments? But nowhere near the £375 billion of the previous QE.

    There’s also something in what Jeremy Corbyn says too. When John Lennon penned the lyrics of the “Taxman” he wasn’t joking. There really was “one for you and nineteen for me.” 95% tax on top earnings in other words. This did cause the rich, including the Beatles, to seek tax exile abroad. Nevertheless livings standards improved steadily during the 60’s and there was no economic stagnation as we see now.

    So it’s really just a question of finding the right balance.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

      Growth looked good in the Sixties as we developed after WW2 but inflation in the late sixties and early seventies meant it was an illusion in real terms.
      It became so bad that in the seventies Unions were asking for 20% and 30% annual pay rises but gaining little advance in real terms for their members.
      Thats where shaking the magic money tree can get you.

    • Hefner
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

      Just for the sake of being pedantic, Taxman was a song by George Harrison.

      • Posted September 14, 2015 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

        Yes, I was wrong and you’re right! Rational argument can sometimes prevail 🙂

  5. Anonymous
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    None of those Conservative party aims of aspiration and self reliance square with continued membership of a socialist organisation such as the EU.

    Labour have their authentic leader – when does the Tory party get theirs ?

    The Tory party have five years in office. I’d far rather they got on with saving what’s left of our country than tit-for-tatting with a Labour party which should be unelectable for at least two terms.

    People’s lives in the UK are about to undergo a drastic change for the worse. What they have seen thus far is nothing compared to what is coming and they will forever associate this with this 5 years of Tory rule.

    Perhaps Corbyn is the only thing that can save you.

  6. JoeSoap
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    Let’s just look at the facts as to what Corbyn wants to do and how your government should have neutralised these:

    •A new national investment bank to encourage growth and reduce the deficit
    Only spoken of because you still have zombie banks stalking the country.

    •Public ownership of the railway and energy sector
    Only spoken of because as you have discussed these sectors are in a mess both financially and due to some green religion.

    •Replace Trident with jobs that retain the skills of the workers
    Yes a bit daft and won’t happen

    •Reduce the welfare bill through growth and investment
    Only spoken of because your government hasn’t managed to decrease it any other way

    •Housebuilding programme and rent controls
    Only spoken of because immigration and silly help to buy programmes, both under your government’s tenure, have screwed the property market for anyone under 40

    •Integrate social care with the NHS
    Because the NHS is unfit for purpose

    •A new national education service providing universal childcare, abolishing student fees, restoring grants and funding adult skills
    Because the student loan situation is a time bomb and grants should indeed be restored for those who merit tertiary education

    •Scrap zero hours contracts and a national living wage for all, regardless of age
    Your folk have already done this, in essence.

  7. Graham
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    Unfortunately I don’t believe that Dave and his chums have the skill to undermine this terrible choice by the Labour faithful.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

      Indeed neither do I.

      The Cameron Conservative party hasn’t really fought for any political principle, its been a case of if New Labour are for something then we are with too but with knobs on.

      Corbyn being elected leader of Labour will have wrong footed the Cameroons, for how can they piggy back on New Labour, when New Labour has been abolished? To tackle Corbyn requires the Conservatives to go back and fight for a principle and be able to make a cogent argument to back it up. Bar a few, like our host, most Conservative politicians I wouldn’t trust to get an order at McDonalds right, let alone remind the public of the appalling state of nationalised industries before they were privatised, and though there has been a case of greed in the board rooms, the services are still better than what we had before.

  8. stred
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Mr Corbyn has been elected on the votes of the marxist/green minority. However, in certain age groups they are numerous. Near my house in Greenville some such young folk have hung a large banner on their house. It says ‘Welcome to Refugees.No borders no nations’. They must believe in word government. They stick other notices up from time to time, usually with amusing spelling mistakes, and they are mostly attending university on some non technical course. On days such as Pride, they celebrate late into the next day and sometimes are seen in the street in underwear. I don’t think they even know they are Marxists or even Anarchists. They probably voted Green last time and think the non nation could be powered entirely by windmills and pigeon covers.But they love Russell Brand and think he has the answers, such as voting Labour and for Jeremy.

    • stred
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 7:29 am | Permalink

      Oops- Word government. After a good performance on the Last Night of the Proms, it was disappointing to hear Mz Alsop giving her own political views on feminist equality and general left agenda, especially on the days that the marxists made gains.

      • stred
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 6:44 am | Permalink

        Thirrd time lucky- World government. Does anyone know why new laptops with W10 have keyboards which miss letters and spaces when even slow typers like me go too fast. Also why the new speech menu prevents the start menu working sometimes and microsoft takes a day to fix it, or that website seizing adware can’t be got rid of without 3 pages of instructions.

      • Mitchel
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 8:46 am | Permalink

        Is “word government” a sister organisation of the “thought police”?!

        I thought the Last Night of the Proms -first time I have seen it for several years-was absolutely awful…BBC at their worst…why was an American feminist invited back so swiftly and then allowed to give a political rant?….why was a German singer performing British patriotic songs?…and I know the programme allows for frivolity on the last night but the music selections were utterly banal.

        • stred
          Posted September 15, 2015 at 7:27 am | Permalink

          Herr Kaufmann is extremely popular with the ladies, belts out songs louder than anyone else, catches knickers thrown at him and chucks back boxer pants. What more do you want? England kicked off with a pianist from Southend with a piece by my favourite composer, who is Russian. Give credit where it is due.

        • stred
          Posted September 15, 2015 at 7:30 am | Permalink

          Word Government- a new definition for the Thought Police. Invented here on the JR blog.

  9. Margaret
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Mr Corbyn is a breath of fresh air. He has not kow towed to the media to make his points. He has done it by being true to himself. I do not blame the Tories or the labour movement for many decades of decline . Government, despite the suggestion in name do not govern the UK. It is the little people who employ and disemploy, the ones who by jealously won’t let potential improvers or those with talent get on in the world. It is those same little people who sit there and have bullied their way into power putting every one down, yet the fault lies with them. It is the little people who look for sensation and jump on the bandwagon to bring people down. It is the ones who see an excellent piece of theory and become jealous should it turn into practice with an ability to employ people. It is the little people with a weird sense of humour who think it is fun to hurt people. It is the little people who are so bloated with their own importance that they cannot envisage a world or work place where their opinion does not matter.
    The varying parties are not those in charge but those who bend the rules to suit their particular clan of people. Again Mr Corbyn is a breath of fresh air as he put himself forward and after so many years in politics.. why not?
    Having said that, nearing the end stage of his career he is well placed to be daring, just as you are John.

  10. Glenn Vaughan
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    When Mr Corbyn completes his Shadow Cabinet team I wonder how many of them will have friends in Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRA.

    Frequent references have also been made to “Corbynmania” in the media. Presumably that means: “Go back to your constituencies and prepare for oblivion.”

  11. Iain Moore
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    If you are going to unpick Corbyn’s inequality agenda then it has to be done by showing up the contradictions of his policies, for nothing much can be done for inequality while we have mass immigration , and Corbyn’s plans to weep copious amounts of crocodile tears for the dispossessed isn’t going to be helped one little bit with his other policy to ship in boat loads of migrants.

    Of course the Conservative party is somewhat compromised on this, for not only have they utterly failed to control mass immigration with the result the markets haven’t been able to take people out of poverty, for we are continuing to add more poverty by the 100’s thousands every year, but they have also accepted the Labour party and Corbyn’s solution of wage controls, for that is what the minimum /living wage is.

  12. Edward2
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    Mr Corbyn does not want equality he and many who think like him want a Marxist style society.
    The shout of equality is just the clarion call to the mob.
    We would end up with a society where the State tells you where to work and where to live and gives you a weekly handout of “beer tokens” to spend each week.
    I’ve been to Cuba and seen the results of equality in action.
    It is an equality of poverty.
    Even what you can eat is controlled by the State via a ration book which is spent at State owned shops.
    There is no unemployment because you are allocated a job, like it or not.
    Apart from the wealthy party elite, all are equal.
    Far fetched in the UK?
    I certainly hope so.
    He needs taking very seriously.

    • margaret
      Posted September 16, 2015 at 2:05 am | Permalink

      There is no such thing as equality.:.we are equal only in our unequalness

  13. Ex-expat Colin
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Isn’t it that his winning vote was the new £3 lefties?

    Peter Hitchens: Labour has a real lefty…so can we have proper conservatives?

    LOL

    • Hefner
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

      Registered: 554,272, Votes: 422,664, turnout: 76.30% so it might be that almost 24% were not considered Labour-enough to be allowed to vote.

      Even so Corbyn got 59.5% made of
      121,751 out of 245,520 members
      88,449 out of 105,598 (£3-paying) supporters
      41,217 out of 71,546 (mainly union-linked) affiliates.
      And it seems that only 20 out of 232 Labour MPs voted Corbyn.

      • stred
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 10:27 am | Permalink

        Interesting figures. They managed to exclude 132k as members of other parties . Anyone not formally another party member could not be detected. Just under half of Labour party members voted for Corbyn. £3 voters plus union members who could be bothered totalled 129k against 124k party members who didn’t.

        Ed Miliband did not understand much about energy or economics. It seems he didn’t understand much about politics or human nature either.

  14. Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    “Conservatives want an inclusive society, where everyone can become an owner, and where the many have the opportunity of a good education and a good job. Mr Corbyn wants a divided society, where the better off are hounded, and everyone ends up worse off.”

    I would say that Conservatives should be more wary of believing their own propaganda. Many of us who are now approaching retirement did have the opportunity of a good education which in turn led to a good job, and the prospects of home ownership without having to become too submerged in debt in the process. Many, if not most, of Mr Corbyn’s younger supporters want the same thing too but don’t see any prospects of their being able to achieve those ambitions.

    Instead, they are stuck in the rental market, they’re often working in jobs requiring much lower academic qualifications than they possess and they’re in debt from their education costs too. When they ask mainstream politicians “what are you going to do about it?” they don’t receive what they consider to be satisfactory answers.

    That’s why they are flocking to Mr Corbyn in droves. Anyone who dismisses what’s happening too lightly is making a big mistake. Some 35% of the electorate didn’t vote at all in May. There’s possibly another 15% (from figures I’ve seen) of potential electors who didn’t even bother to register.

    I would expect that there will be a big registration drive by the Labour Party between now and 2020. They don’t need that many new voters and don’t need any present Tory voters at all to win then. However, if we have 5 more years of sluggish to no growth and a futile quest to achieve the impossible (ie balance the budget) then who knows how anyone will vote in 2020.

    Mr Corbyn is a nice chap. People like him even if they disagree with his politics. I’m sure Mr Corbyn would deny, though, that was a big factor in his success in the Labour leadership election. I’m not so sure. I can think of a couple of Labour politicians who would have advocated exactly the same policies on the hustings but would have finished last. People do vote for people they like. It’s not all about policies.

    • Hefner
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

      Very much agreed.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted September 14, 2015 at 7:09 am | Permalink

      Quite. Much of the electorate was so disenfranchised by the crop of identikit politicians and their centre ground policies in the last election that they didn’t bother to vote. Another 4 million placed an X against a party with no hope of winning because it appeared to offer something different.

      It is not a great stretch to assume that a shift by Labour and a promise of something different will spur many abstainees to vote for someone they believe has a chance of winning. Especially given the propensity of opinion poll responders to claim to want to do the selfless thing rather than to be voting for self interest ( whatever they actually do in the reality of the polling booth).

      Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party represents a real threat. Fortunately due to his influence we may be out of the EU by 2020.

      • Posted September 14, 2015 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

        Narrow Shoulders

        Ooops sorry to disappoint but Corbyns belief and principles last all of 24 hours. They announced this morning that Labour will be campaigning to stay IN the EU

      • margaret
        Posted September 14, 2015 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

        I agree with the last sentence

  15. oldtimer
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    You sum up the issues very clearly. The Conservative party and government will need to raise its game if it is to defeat the Corbyn siren voice that Peoples QE and swingeing taxes are the answer to all our problems. So far I get the impression that Mr Osborne has shown him the way to this promised Nirvana with his very own QE bonanza and yet more and more taxes on more and more goods and services. He and Mr Cameron need to take Mr Corbyn very seriously indeed.

  16. Douglas Carter
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Reading around the Bazaars, I’m seeing regular protests from unnamed Labour sources – some allegedly MPs – who feel Corbyn’s programme might be overturned where features of it were not on offer in the General Election Labour Manifesto.

    I’d really like to know why those same MPs remained so very silent when a Barrister acting on behalf of a previous Prime Minister seven years ago asserted ‘Manifesto promises are not subject to legitimate expectation’? Seems rather late in the day to complain about Manifesto abuse to me?

    • Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

      Denis,

      That argument would only hold if Labour had won the election and had needed to find a new leader for any reason in mid term.

      But, now that the electorate have rejected what was on offer, all bets are off in a national sense. However, individual MPs can still be expected to be held to account for any personal commitments.

  17. Gary
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    now it’s a straight choice between hard left socialists and govt empowered corporate monopolies setup to extract rent.

    Etc ed

  18. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    It is clear to all Conservatives that a Corbyn Leadership will bring electoral disaster to the Labour Party. So why campaign against him? Why bother?

    Why are leading Conservatives who only a few months ago thought a Tweeter was a rather pleasant feathery woodland tit heralding spring, get on Twitter at every opportunity and retweet little satirical drawings of Mr Corbyn?

    Of course Mr Corbyn has thrown the political cuckoos who pretended to be Labour on to the back-benches. None of them do right by their “beliefs” and resign as a Labour MP. How can they be even remotely associated with a political party which in their words is going to “impoverish the British people ” and, “place British people in grave danger because of his Defence policy.” ?

    The only jewel in the Conservative crown, the only one, is the economy. But the majority of economists on the Right which some call “Contrarians” are predicting imminent economic collapse.
    Mr Corbyn is very likely to win the next election. It will be a well-deserved defeat for the Conservative Party. Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya are not “Northern Powerhouses”. They are not part of the United Kingdom. Mr Corbyn unlike his political opponents studied basic geography at school and probably knows that Atlas is not just a rather pleasant looking shiny-skinned guy with awesome muscles.

  19. Leslie Singleton
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Haven’t been able to find out how many Labour MP’s voted for Corbyn–I assume, but am no longer sure, that they did get to vote. Not being able to run a whelk stall is no longer the benchmark. Corbyn is simply delusional. A new Party will have to form whose leader is chosen once again only by its MP’s. Corbyn was part of the clique of Haringey loonies who not only closed the best school in the world – The Stationers’ Company’s School – my school – but razed it to the ground.

    • A different Simon
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

      Leslie ,

      My late father , born in 1934 , went to Stationers .

      He was a working class boy from Tottenham who much like Mr Mainwaring ended up as a bank manager .

      A cousin and another went there too and they still talk about it .

      Back 23 years ago just before he died he told me he wanted to leave Nat West . Responsible lending was already on it’s way out back then and he could see what was coming .

  20. Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Those who could have achieved but dragged their feet will welcome the Corbyn doctrine with open arms ; one individual I know was educated at an independent school went to University and obtained a good degree but subsequently failed to keep any job that offered a progressive future . There are others – like the benefit dodgers , who feel a fair society is when they can receive without a thought of playing a responsible part – I know one of these too . A healthy society is when those who strive and contribute to success are properly rewarded ; such individuals also have regard for others who are less able and genuinely do need help .

    One of the fears I have is that Corbyn will have a cohesive effect and will cause the Conservatives to move more to the centre-left ground . Such a reaction would take the country in the wrong direction and drive initiative away . It is a time for strong and determined leadership to make sure this does not happen ; sadly Cameron is not the man to do this – nor is Osborne for that matter . The Conservatives need to think long and hard about this and resist all attempts to compromise ; already the SNP are flexing their muscle and sensing the opportunity of breaking away again . It is a now or never time .

  21. adams
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    Conservatives GOOD Liebour BAD . Both believe in rule from Brussels and mass immigration .
    Time for change ? Definitely .

  22. libertarian
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    I see lots of memes about Corbyn start to take hold, the left really do lack deep analysis skills though.

    There is a photo saying this is Corbyn in the 80s ( picture him at a political protest) v Cameroon in standard Bullingdon club photo

    Few points, so Corbyn HAS been a CAREER politician since the 80’s ( he was in his late 30s then) as he’s STILL doing the same thing, saying the same thing. Some breath of fresh air …not . Cameron was a 20 year old student .

    Corbyn has principles apparently and those that disagree or won’t serve in his cabinet don’t. Well excuse me the Taliban, Mao, Ton Ton Macute & Catholic church etc have principles . So 1) What exactly are Corbyns principles and 2) why should anyone with a differing and opposing set of principles agree with him?

    His fans think that his refusal to talk to the media or face PMQ’s is some evidence of his “principles” . When in fact Jez we can in fact can’t. He is terrified of being interviewed as his principles, philosophy and policies will unravel in 5 minutes flat.Owen Jones thinks that Corbyn crowd sourcing the voters views to ask questions in the House is some new and cunning plan, er that has been the WHOLE frigging point of HoC since it was founded !

    The Revolutionary Socialist Labour Party apparently think that the main issues in society are equality, diversity, fairness…… so they elect a white, middle aged, middle class, ex public school, heterosexual male as leader AGAIN, continuing 100 years of doing the same thing. Then they tell us they’re progressive

    A lot of people on both sides of the political fence have welcomed his election as it has reestablished the old left / right divide. To me that is the very WORST of all this as in the 21st Century its time we moved away from that old war and built a new future.

    So where are we now? The political fan boys and girls are in their element arguing, tossing insults and threatening each other and their tribes. We now have some extreme politics both left and right ( Militant Labour, UKIP & Greens ) based entirely on power to the people , cliched sound bites , rabble rousing.

    The failure of leadership is of epic proportions. I do not belong to a political party as 1) none of them represent my views 2) None of them have any real world ability at all. There is a glaring hole in British politics that if it were a business the average entrepreneur would have filled years ago. There is a gap in the market for people with leadership and vision to offer the voters something very different to the current return to the 70’s schtick.

    We have a massive democratic deficit in this country , our government at every level needs a complete and total overhaul after the shambles made of it in the last few years by both major parties. Sadly our politicians have decided to return to the 1970’s.

  23. Horatio McSherry
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    John,

    There are many making light of this Corbyn win; breaking out the champagne. But the number of people he could re-engage shouldn’t be underestimated. Not that I think it’ll be enough, but you never know.

    Now there’s a clear divide between the now far-left Labour Party and the Conservatives, what Call Me Dave doesn’t want to do is chase them left and become the defacto New Labour party. He has a great opportunity to become a real Conservative: cut taxes, shrink the state, de-clutter the civil service, make the gap between good governance and ideological idiocy a yawning chasm. As we tend to be a bit cynical of CMD I think a lot of us think he’ll do the former.

    This result is also a perfect example of why the voting age shouldn’t be lowered, as – and I know it’s not trendy to say such a thing, but – young people fresh from school have no experience of the effects politics and don’t know anything – especially history. We’re all idealists until the real world gives us a kick up the backside. There are many who still stick to their unworkable utopia but their numbers nationwide are miniscule.

  24. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    I did write some time ago that people had massively underestimated Mr Corbyn.
    Please take a look at by-election results for Councils at the beginning of Mr Corbyn entering the leadership race. You are bound to notice something quite remarkable. No, not the performance necessarily of the Labour Party although that has been good. But see what has befallen UKIP.

    In a time of absolute maximum media obsession with Chunnel incursions by migrants; with “floods ” following all across Europe as Mr Farage, to be fair, had actually UNDERstated….UKIP votes have fallen dramatically in number and percentage.

    The Corbyn factor.

    Tories should not flatter themselves they have “got the message across”. They have failed in war. Failed on “normal” migration and now they plan to people our island with the very humans whose land they are bombing.

    It will be a landslide victory for Corbyn at the next election…

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

      I do hope not, but given that this government is almost as lefty loon as Corbyn it might well be.

  25. Iain Gill
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Well I am someone who considers himself more right wing than Mrs T. I have only ever voted conservative or UKIP. I looked at all the labour candidates policies, I agreed with more of corbyns than any of the other candidates. I also value politicians prepared to tell us what they really think. So I think the conservatives need to be careful.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

      Tell you what Iain Gill why not tell us the Corbyn policies that really struck a chord with your “right wing” instincts

  26. Mercia
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Sure it’s irritating to see a few undeserved fat cats get too much but most people are focused on their own family’s circumstances.

    >
    Even fat cats cannot live forever, it is a good conscience, love, freedom, wisdom and understanding that makes that makes a man happy.

    Proverbs 8:11
    for wisdom is more precious than rubies, and nothing you desire can compare with her.

  27. Peter Stroud
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    It will be interesting to see how Corbyn and Watson work together. They are from completely opposite sides of Labour. Corbyn sees Labour’s origins with the Marxists, and fellow travellers, but Watson is wedded to the Labour Party of Atlee, Bevin and the old trade unionists. We also hear that PMQs are going to be changed on the Labour side. Corbyn will, we are told, no longer be the only voice opposing the PM, but others from the shadow cabinet will represent the opposition. Could be very interesting and even a little exiting.

  28. Posted September 13, 2015 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    For those of us who are old enough to remember the post war high taxation, everything nationalised era, all you say makes compelling reading. One should not forget though that successive Conservative administrations allowed it to continue until the advent of Mrs Thatcher.
    The danger for the current Conservative leadership is that what Mr Corbyn says will seem very plausible to a very great many people. The Conservatives will need to be much more articulate in promoting the capitalist alternative than they have been to date, and also show much more sign that they really believe what they are saying. As has already been said, Mr Osborne’s latest budget did credit to his hero, Gordon Brown, in its complexity.
    The danger is that they react with complacency and put the voter off.

  29. bluedog
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    ‘Straws in the wind’ can be very important when assessing an evolving situation, Dr JR.

    In this regard, two inter-related pointers to Corbyn’s thinking have emerged, the first was the seemingly bizarre waving of a Tony Benn tea-towel at the electoral event, the second is the rumoured appointment of Benn’s son Hilary as shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer. It seems that the Corbyn Opposition will be a Tony Benn tribute act, down to the last eccentricity. This means highly intrusive state oversight in the business sector with the return of workers collectives, state-financed, after the manner of the Meriden Co-op that took over Triumph Motorcycles until final demise. In order to secure his position within Labour, against the opposition of the Blairite faction, Corbyn will re-empower the trade unions. He can do this even when in opposition just be tinkering with the rights of the unions within the party. He can then reward the unions by encouraging industrial action to support his own political agenda. We haven’t seen this sort of blackmail for thirty years, but if Corbyn follows the Benn blueprint we will do so again.

    Of course Tony Benn was very much against the EU, declaring in a 1979 speech how much he loathed it. Corbyn voted ‘no’ in 1975 and has so far been coy about his current position. An obvious tactic by which Corbyn can embarrass Cameron is to come out strongly against the EU and court the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservative Party.

    Good luck!

  30. Cliff. Wokingham.
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Mr Corbyn is indeed of the far left by modern standards however, I would suggest he is more of what I would describe as a labour man than Mr Blair ever was. There was much discontent within the core supporters of Labour regarding the direction Mr Blair took the party and the membership have expressed this malcontent in this vote.
    Many of us who are true blue Conservatives have not liked the direction Mr Cameron has taken the party and I now wonder if the party will elect a much more Conservative leader when Mr Cameron steps down in a few years time?
    I believe many people are fed up with the “No real choice” we have seen over the last couple of decades, where New Labour and Blue Labour have fought over a very tiny piece of centre ground.

    • Horatio McSherry
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

      Perhaps the split in the Labour party might be mirrored by a split in the Conservative party during/after the EU referendum (If there’s an EU left by then now that Germany has suspended Schengen)?

      If Labour split and the Neo Labourites start their own party, there may come a time when those that have infiltrated the Conservatives find that new party (and the army of people and institutions that would give them plenty of help) a very attractive home. You’d be left with traditional Labour, traditional Conservatives, and New Labour. All with very different policies, backgrounds and supporters. It might even operate something like a proper democracy. If that does happen, where would it leave UKIP and the nutcases in the SNP? Would they effectively evapourate?

      It’s all hypothetical, obviously, but it could lead to some very interesting times and a return to all MPs really having to represent their constituents.

  31. Dennis
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Jesus Christ’s policies are 2000 years old so obviously a relic of the past – let’s relegate his policies to the dustbin of history too.

  32. yosarion
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Its quite a simple question, do you want back to the future with Jurassic Jezza.

  33. Terry
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    The left will never learn. Some four decades after the disastrous 1970s here we have a repeat of the old Labour philosophy. And as Albert Einstein supposedly said ‘Insanity’ is repeating the mistakes of the past and expecting a different result. This new, “new” Labour, clearly is insane! RIP.

  34. Hefner
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    “The establishment scratches its head:”How could …?” Well, let’s just check what the “serious” people have done for us lately: economic disaster with rewards for those who caused it and barely a gain for anyone else; foreign policy disaster with cack-handed interventions bringing instability and chaos; social disaster with poverty festering, family life foundering and inequality growing. If that’s what being “serious” gets you, no wonder people prefer the joker.
    Corbyn’s answers may be wrong but many of his questions are right. Instead of patronising his supporters, the insular elite and their elites in big business and big finance need to realise they are the cause of Corbyn.”

    author: Steve Hilton, former director of strategy of David Cameron.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

      Most of the examples you give happened under a Labour Government.

    • Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

      Hefner

      5.6 million people own and run their own businesses in the UK

      0.25 million think Corbyn has any idea at all

      Maybe time YOU actually took a look around at the real world. Although I do agree that the politicians obsessions with big corporates ( who by the way are now job negative both here and in the USA) is very very misplaced.

      • margaret
        Posted September 16, 2015 at 2:00 am | Permalink

        Perhaps you could inform us where you got these figures . Have you any idea at all?

  35. Posted September 13, 2015 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    Many parents seem to have lost the ambition that their children should do better in their lives than they had done themselves, which seemed to be widespread when I was young.
    I suspect this could be due to the ready availability of benefits for those “seeking work”, but for some reason never appear to be in work. It could be behind the bad behaviour in some schools where the parents will support the child rather than the teacher. I remember the boys at Grammar School, it was always the ones from the poorer families who were determined to get on and pass their exams, all wanted to do better than their parents.
    This seems to have all gone, instead people are attracted by the Corbyn idea of equality for all, which as you say simply levels down rather than improves the lot of the poor.

    It’s too late for me to think of leaving the country, but if we had Corbyn’s “Utopia” here, I’m quite sure that both my daughters and their families would get out as soon as the could; indeed my younger daughter is already looking at Australia because she is far from happy about the education of our grandson at the allocated state school. I’m sure this flight of qualified people is the way Corbyn would solve the housing crisis!!!!

    • A different Simon
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

      “Equality” is indeed a crass message in a country like 2015 UK .

      It correctly defines Corbyn as a member of the self-loathing British middle class .

      At some point in time Corbyn will be required to define exactly what is “equality” means – unless as I suspect it is quietly buried like other vacuous concept such as Cameron’s “big society” .

      I look forward to Cameron and Corbyn trying to outdo themselves in their stupidity and greenness . What a spectacle it will be for the Commonwealth and the United States .

  36. miami.mode
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Initial thoughts are that he intends to keep a fairly low profile and will send others to PMQs or interviews on television and thus it will be extremely difficult to pin Labour down to precise details of exactly what their policies are as demonstrated by Tom Watson on Andrew Marr. All a bit woolly on NATO and Trident etc which will make it hard for the Conservatives to attack them.

    • bluedog
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

      ‘All a bit woolly on NATO and Trident etc ‘

      The working assumption has to be that a Corbyn disloyal opposition is a Tony Benn tribute act that faithfully replicate the policy positions of the late Tony Benn. Wiki is your friend, but briefly, the Bennite position was scrap Trident, no nuclear weapons, generally disarm and leave NATO. The enthusiastic welcome of Corbyn by Kirchner of Argentina suggests that our enemies read Corbyn much the same way.

      Benn also strongly opposed British membership of the EU. It seems highly unlikely that Corbyn has an original thought in his head and that he will simply work on the premise, What Would Tony Benn Do. In other words, many of Corbyn’s policy positions will fail because they are completely out of context.

  37. Addanc
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    With respect to Conservative tax policy, care to justify Osborne’s attack on 4 million small businesses?

  38. NickC
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Corbyn is not a joke. Conservatives, Liberals and non-political people have not taken his threat to return us to the 1970s seriously. There are a lot of deluded Corbyn supporters out there: people who wailed after the election “I don’t understand how anyone can vote Tory”; people who think you can avoid austerity just by saying so.

    In my view Cameron (or his likely successor) will not be able to see off Corbyn in the same way that Thatcher saw off Foot. So we will get Corbyn as the PM in 2020, propped up by the SNP. Result: no nukes; no Faslane; independent Scotland; Falklands and Gibraltar given away; united Ireland; no UN seat; decimated defence so RR and BAe to the wall; economy in recession; run on pound; stock market collapse; Jeremy’s soup kitchens; UK (and Scotland) beg to remain in/rejoin the EU; condition being to join euro. UK and Scotland finished as remotely independent nations.

    Think that’s apocalyptic? Think again. All the main players’ characteristics and policies are already in public. Just follow the evidence. There is nothing standing in the way of this unfolding as I’ve outlined, other than drastic changes in the Tory party (stop being so smug, bring your intelligent people forward, retire Cameron and Osborn etc), or the most amazing increase in support for UKIP.

    • A different Simon
      Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

      I broadly agree with you .

      Osborne spruiked the economy to get it through the 2015 election (which worked rather too well) and the hangover will probably reach a climax in 2019 .

      Not even Michael Foot , the Soviet Union , Anthony Blunt , Fidel Castro could have dreamed of the possible revolution which Cameron’s complacency and indifference to the plight of the common man could bring about .

  39. forthurst
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    The next time that that the unEnglish looking neocon, CMD, waxes hysterical about Assad, who is not an enemy of the English, as its is Da’ish that has been driving Syrians toward our shores not Assad, who is their mortal enemy, I hope that Corbyn will invite him to explain to the House, exactly with whom his loyalties lie. CMD, son of Bliar, is as big a menace to us as Bliar, with his Europhilia, mass immigration, and neocon wars of choice. It’s time he was called to account.

  40. Roy Grainger
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    “Mr Corbyn has defeated a Labour party prepared to make compromises to win elections”.

    And who will defeat a Conservative party who were prepared to make compromises with the LibDems to win an election ? Good for him.

  41. Richard
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Mr. Corbyn knows of course that his policies will make everyone poorer. This is a necessary part of his plan to achieve the equality goal.

    As is his wish to allow uncontrolled immigration.

    I expect North Korea is his model country.

  42. Colin Hart
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Corbyn seems to be what I believe is known as a ‘conviction politician’. The last person to describe themselves as such did rather well.

    Rail nationalisation will frighten no one and might even be welcomed by commuters facing ever rising fares. Nor would it be that expensive, initially. All the government would have to do is take the operating companies back into state ownership as the franchises expired without having to pay shareholders any compensation; which they didn’t do anyway when the Blairites nationalised Railtrack.

    And would anyone be that bothered if the energy companies were renationalised? It might even mean we get some new nuclear power stations built instead of waiting endlessly for the French to get round to doing it for us.

    Even some Conservatives question the renewal of Trident.

    And if he came out against EU membership…

    The Conservative Party had better watch out. Perhaps it is time for the leader to be another conviction politician.

    • Richard
      Posted September 14, 2015 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

      If Mr. Corbyn went back to the pre Blair days of opposing EU membership he could be on to a winning position as the Conservative Party will never change its pro EU stance as this suits the corporates.

      So much so that it is still Conservative Party policy to include in the EU the muslim states of Turkey and all the Eastern European countries as far as the Urals.

  43. A different Simon
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    What you say is true but if it hadn’t of been for the failure of the so called Conservative party and Nulabor there would be no opening for Corbyn .

    Collectively you have offered nothing to the man in the street and failed to deal with the wrong doing in the lead up to the 2008 crisis .

    There has yet to be a proper debate about :-
    – mass immigration
    – transfer of power to the EU
    – pensions for those outside the public sector
    – death with dignity
    – shifting taxation from labour onto land

    John , do you think your party should accept any responsibility that the election of Corbyn has happened ?

  44. Ken Moore
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Mr Corbyn is the worst kind of socialist/Marxist ..one that came from a privileged background went to private school and now wants to deny his advantages to others.

    He has never made anything tangible, created a job or indeed had a proper job in his life.
    He is just as hopeless as David Cameron but at least Mr Corbyn doesn’t pretend to be something he is not.

  45. woodsy42
    Posted September 13, 2015 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    “They accept that great entertainers, sports people, entrepreneurs should earn large sums based on their skills,”
    I’m not convinced about this. I think most people appreciate and desire fairness; that means accepting that people with exceptional skills/courage making exceptional contributions to society should indeed earn large sums. But I can think of quite a few people wholly undeserving of the eye-watering ‘large sums’ showered on them by society. Also there are many corporations who make unearned large profits from small print, tax fiddling, monopoly positions and shady dealing. There are plenty of people, not just Corbyn supporters, who would be delighted to see them get their comeuppance.

  46. The Prangwizard
    Posted September 14, 2015 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    We need powerful defenders of the free market and freedom of the individual, those with the intellectual capacity, to speak out. Attacks on Corbyn and his friends and supporters with the use of slogans and scare tactics will only have a limited effect; they may even provide him with some sympathy and inevitably he will be portrayed by many as a victim of Tory propaganda and ‘lies’. I have no doubt he has supporters who follow the ‘what the hell’, principle.

    We need Cameron as PM to speak, not in sound bites, but at length, and frequently as this will need to be a long campaign, to demolish the myth of the ‘Socialist paradise’, to explain the problems in Marxist theory and practice, and Corbyn’s extreme ideology, to give real examples, so that those who have very little knowledge of the facts of history either because they have been withheld or glossed over in our superficial society, can be given a deeper understanding of what real problems will undoubtedly arise if Corbyn and his clique get any power, and how dangerous they can indeed be. But in any event they must not be allowed to push their myths between now and the next elections without detailed challenge. And it goes almost without saying that the BBC and other media outlets must be challenged if their portrayals are inaccurate and partial.

    The new ideological battle must begin, the blandness is over, pretence is over; we need a repeat of what we had a few decades ago. What worries me is that I’m not sure Cameron is up to it, he is no Mrs Thatcher. We know he is weak and may not be able to stand up to the criticism and opposition on the streets which will come his way. One speech and then a move to another subject will not be good enough. I suspect that Corbyn, being clearly ideologically driven may prove to be the stronger. He has been underestimated so far by the more stupid, purile and arrogant Tories, who may come to regret the ludicrous plan to help get him voted in.

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted September 15, 2015 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      I must apologise for my schoolboy error! Puerile.

      • margaret
        Posted September 17, 2015 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

        I had this one with TB . I was referring to a state of infection so named purile ( pus), whilst he was referring to puerile as in infant like.

  47. Peter
    Posted September 14, 2015 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    So his ideas have been tried in many other countries like Venezuela and France yet lefties still think they are plausible. On the face of it he seems a nice chap but when u look at what he has said and who he associates with its worrying, it looks like he’s having to scrape the bottom of the barrell for a shadow cabinet, in reality the UK no longer has an alternative government, I thought the last shadow cabinet was dreadful

    Let’s just hope nothing bad happens with the economy next few years

  48. Jon
    Posted September 14, 2015 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    He has applied for Privy Counsel.

    That concerns me. Ordinarily you could assume it’s just some wasted years for Labour but him having access to state security information is a risk I’m not happy about.

    I’m sure when he has to kneel before the British Sovereign, us in represented in one person being the Queen I assume he would have to pledge some kind of allegiance. If he does, he’s a liar, if he doesn’t, he should not be granted Rt Hon privy access!

  49. Posted September 15, 2015 at 2:52 am | Permalink

    JR, Normally the URL is taken from the title of the posting but this time the URL is

    lets-fight-poverty-by-offering-more-free-enterprise-and-lower-taxes-that-works/

    Which is a better title than the one chosen IMO. Did you change it later?

    Yes we do need lower taxes. But we don’t get them! Lower taxes should mean lower taxes for everyone not just for those who’re paying at the top rate of income tax. Lower VAT would be a good move to get the economy moving.

    It wouldn’t affect the deficit. Economic activity would increase meaning that the total tax take would increase too! I wouldn’t go as far as to say that the deficit would reduce – that would still depend on the level of savings and the trade position.

  50. a-tracy
    Posted September 15, 2015 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    We need more figures, where is the biggest poverty issues, what % of migrants live in those areas that we’re housing as priorities over our own children who are living in cramped extortionate private rentals. How many imported cultures result in child poverty I’ve watched programs on (named groups ed) families who have large families on one or no income.

    In areas of youth unemployment how many full time jobs, paying over the NMW are vacant for them, why aren’t they applying for them?

    As for Corbyn if MPs are all equal why select a top table?

  51. margaret
    Posted September 15, 2015 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    I think those who have refused to serve in the shadow cabinet are selfish and spiteful. These ones were chosen for their skills and have refused to use them to help the labour party and country. Can you imagine a heart surgeon refusing to carry out operations because he did not agree with the senior surgeons internal politics. Shame on you all.

  52. Posted September 16, 2015 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    Perhaps the worst of Mr Corbyn’s policies is ‘people’s QE’. We’ve had that before in the mid-70s, beginning with the Heath/Barber budget of 1972 and its massive deficit, financed by printing money. Wilson and Healey fanned the inflationary flames and inflation reached 25% before Mr Healey was forced by a slide in sterling to come back down the steps of the aircraft he was about to board and go cap in hand to the IMF. We can do without a repeat.

    During that period, salaries shot up, but never sufficiently to match the inflation and there was massive civil strife. For a brief while, employers and employees blamed each other. Then the penny dropped that government monetary policy was causing the problem.

    • Posted September 16, 2015 at 12:52 am | Permalink

      If Mr Corbyn wants Big Welfare and a Big State he should finance it honestly, by raising the standard rate of income tax. If the rate went up from 20% to 24%, the income tax yield from a man on £42,500 would be the same as it was before the coalition government started raising the lower threshold.

      That would probably be less damaging to his cause than any dodgy alternative. After all, in the 2010 election, Caroline Lucas said that she would be happy to see the government’s total tax take rise to 45% of GDP, and she still got elected.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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