The debates this week in the EU have mainly centred over allocating 120,000 migrants to all the countries in the EU save the UK. This has been a futile debate. It is quite clear far more than 120,000 people are bursting through the EU’s external frontier this year, so the agreement will be overtaken by far larger numbers long before it can be implemented. It is bizarre, as the migrants the EU lets in will have views of their own on where they wish to settle. It will not be possible to make a certain number live in each country against their will.
It is causing more damage to a fractious EU. Several eastern countries have no wish to be part of this mismanaged invitation to migrants to come. Officials and some of the leading politicians have fallen prey to the “We must be seen to be doing something”, even if that something is unrealistic or unhelpful. The result has been to highlight again the conflict between central EU power and the wishes of some of the entrapped member states who disagree with the policy.
The non UK EU needs to make a simple binary decision. Is it going to restore full control, including choice of policy for borders and migration to each member state? Or is it going to set an EU wide migration policy and take responsibility for the external border of the unified zone? The EU largely has the powers it needs within the Shengen area to set a common policy on grounds for accepting inward migration. The issue is, does it have the good will and support of the member states to enforce this? Is the EU itself going to offer more resource to the weakest parts of its common border, in Greece, Italy and the Balkans? Can the EU enforce its extended borders?
If the EU now wishes to limit numbers to anything like the 120,000 it is talking about, it will need to send out a very different new message. It will have to announce that the non UK EU will impose strict limits on total inward migration. To do so it will define categories of people who can qualify through asylum or other claim to gain legal entry. All others will be turned back at the border. It then needs to get on with enforcing its external frontier. In recent weeks EU leaders have sent out a wide range of differing messages, from a welcome to all through to tighter controls. Sometimes migrants have been offered free transport and passage, other times they have had to break through defended borders. No wonder the EU ends up in the current mess. It is not good for either the EU nor for the migrants.It lacks certainty. It lacks principle. It lacks realism.
September 24, 2015
“Die Welt” reports this week that half of Sweden’s immigrants are unemployed, and they collect 60% of Sweden’s social welfare benefits. How long is this sustainable? Does anybody know what the figures are for the UK?
September 24, 2015
The article also points out that since the 80’s Sweden has recorded the highest increase in social inequality amongst OECD members. Open borders is something the left never mention when they go on about rising inequality in the UK. What do you expect, as if in Sweden’s case 45% of the worst performing school children are immigrants. The article is in German though your browser should be able to translate it.
http://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article146734281/Die-grosszuegigen-Schweden-zahlen-einen-hohen-Preis.html
Reply I am keeping the link but have not myself checked the article
September 24, 2015
About the same might well be a reasonable assumption.
The BBC is endlessly upping the benefits of migrant labour, but in reality (at least in the short to medium term) they are bound to be a huge net liability. A cost to the NHS, schools, benefits, the police, social services, rubbish collection, housing and countless other areas. While also depressing wages (and thus tax receipts) for existing workers.
September 24, 2015
Mrs Rita Webb
The latest figures show that just under 400,000 immigrants ( thats EU & non EU combined) receive some form of welfare, benefit or tax credit in the UK. Thats just under 10% of total claimant count.
September 24, 2015
Figures from where?
September 25, 2015
Rita
ONS
September 24, 2015
I assume that this cohort does not make up 10% of the working population? If they do not then the figure is disproportionate. If they do then they are most certainly keeping someone out of a job (yes I know they create jobs in Polish supermarkets and other areas of increased demand but it is not one for one) so they are contributing to someone on benefit.
September 24, 2015
The Telegraph reported not long ago that half of Muslim men and three quarters of Muslim women in the UK are unemployed
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8054403/Britains-coping-classes-at-breaking-point.html
QMUL did a study revealing that this rises to 90% in the case of Somalians in London.
September 28, 2015
Barbara 1
Well the Telegraph is clearly and obviously wrong.
There are 3 million Muslims in UK according to the last census . There are 1.8 million unemployed in TOTAL so that would mean that just about ALL the unemployed are Muslims and that is clearly not so
September 24, 2015
Merkel’s involvement has been self-satisfied self-serving and all round calamitous. When the whole of Africa decides it wants to live in Europe we shall have her to thank. She showed less than no thought for the rest of the EU.
September 24, 2015
As always, Mr Redwood, the master of the understatement.
From where I’m sitting, it’s a total catastrophe brought about by the most ridiculously idiotic political decision in recent history, made by that German woman.
Where previously I have moaned about eastern Europeans, I now thank God they are part of the EU and are trying to implement border controls which world migration has been based on for hundreds of years. No one really knows what our PM’s agenda is, and it appears as if he has attempted to lead by example on this one, but I really hope he is on-side with the eastern Europeans who have sided with him before – if this is left to Merkel, Hollande and Juncker to sort out, we might as well all migrate and leave Europe to the immigrants.
September 24, 2015
This can and will become our problem when they are granted citizenship under freedom of movement. We already receive 634000 every year from the EU and elsewhere. The legacy parties and the complicit msm are not even discussing it. Several migrants are telling Breitbart and others they will choose their final destination. They are right. Even our politicians can surely see this or is it just UKIP that has retained commonsense and patriotism. This is a National emergency and need’s strategic and tactical responses now, not in months. Oh how many are now referring their voting choice. I’m not. Is CMD in Cornwall again? Has our Home Secretary prepared a sound bite as it appears nothing else is being DONE!
September 24, 2015
Good morning.
With respect, I think you ar missing the big picture. The EU is using the old technique of the, ‘beneficial crisis’ to extend its powers. It now, through QMV, has the power to force Nation States to accept a certain number of economic migrants whether they wish to or not. And now the precendent has been set, there is nothing to stop the EU flooding Europe with unwanted people, many of whom, once they have gained entry will simply go elsewhere.
As has already ben stated, even if you say send these people to Poland for example, once there if they do not like it, they will simply go to another EU Member Country. Not all countries in the EU have the same level of benefits, and so, in order to equalize such a disparity, the EU will force ‘common’ benefits’ across the board. And once again, extend its powers.
And as the UK has a generous benefits system and most it seems wish to come here, it is a no brainer as to what happens next. They are not going to stay in Poland are they, not even the Pole do it seems. 😉
September 24, 2015
The Left might argue “Ah. But we need an influx of young people to look after our ageing population.”
What ? They mean those pushy young men who have left their own parents and grandparents at the mercy of IS ?
I thought the purpose of the Royal Navy and our government was precisely to prevent our country from being overrun by pushy young men from other countries – not helping them get here. What is the point of having either if they won’t perform their most basic function ?
September 24, 2015
Doubtless their elderly will follow on shortly after they arrive.
It is a favourite lefty, BBC thing. refrain to say that see need immigration to help with toileting our ageing population.
September 24, 2015
The RN is effectively being used to facilitate the entry of these people to the EU…..
zorro
September 24, 2015
Classic Hegelian dialectic – Problem – Reaction – Solution…..
zorro
September 24, 2015
Brought up with “The Guns of Navarone” on the telly every other Sunday afternoon does not arm one for the realities of today. Clandestine attacks by various resistance movements across Europe showed them carefully crawling through long grass or wearily sneaking through a thick forest in the dead of night ( making sure it was a moonless night was a must ) only to be caught out by treading on a stick and making that fatal crack which alerted the always vigilant border guard. In real life, it was worse than that. Many people were shot and tortured. Death tolls ran into the thousands and millions for intruders.
So it is confusing to watch migrants sniggering, smiling, dumping their unopened charity food bags, plastic bottles, defecating, urinating aside cottages and breezy country lanes in every picturesque village across whole countries, cocking a snook at unarmed policemen, mobbing buses and trains which local people use to go to work or transport their children to school.
Rightly or wrongly one was brought up believe that even in peacetime to challenge a border guard of any country would result in a rifle bullet in your head. And everyone understood why.
The British media is engaged in a barrage of pro-migrant propaganda picking a young ( always good-looking ) woman with a babe in arms from a crowd of hundreds of rather nasty young men despoiling all before them with the contemptuousness of hooligans of the first water. I understand. It would not do to promote aggression to ALL migrants.
It would however be a good idea to sit all migrants down as they land on Greek soil and force them to watch “The Guns of Navarone” followed by the the movie “Stalingrad” . Then gently but by armed escort return them to their boats, wishing them BonVoyage back to their countries of origin as it would be folly for them to trust our softness to continue. We have a history.
September 24, 2015
The BBC is also quiet on the Ashcroft revelations about David Cameron.
DC may not need the partiality of the Tory Party machine if the BBC is going to do his work on the EU referendum for him.
In fact, watching The One Show last night the presentation on the EU was formatted thus:
Ignorant member of the public asked a question on the EU. The BBC resident EU expert (pro, of course) correcting the ignoramus.
For balance there should be TWO experts, surely ? One for either side of the argument.
September 24, 2015
You expect balance from the BBC!
September 24, 2015
Never expect the media to be in any way, shape or form neutral on this issue. They are part of the psyop media operation to present this in a positive light. Do they really think that these young men will respect laws once they enter the EU with the way that they behave now…?
zorro
September 24, 2015
The EU is rushing into destruction. Either it will eventually fall to pieces or it will come under a brutal dictatorship.
Our historic role has been that of a good friend, welcoming in the wounded, the homeless, the scared. We must maintain that role.
I know you are not going to put this up on your site, Mr Redwood. But please make sure that our Prime Minister stands firm on this one. He is doing really well and must not weaken.
September 24, 2015
Mike
or it will come under a brutal dictatorship.
Is it not almost there now?
Germany shouts jump and the rest shout How High?
It is a good job for us that the young men of this country stayed and fought the oppressors and didn’t walk away. The only way they will get a decent life to meet their expectations is to fight and work for it.
Wonders never cease when with all this going on, what is one of the highlights of the Popes speech in America? Climate Change!!!!!
You cannot make this up
September 24, 2015
Mr Stallard. “He is doing really well and must not weaken.”
If by that you mean Mr Cameron has applied some basic common sense in offering aid to genuine Syrian refugees in areas in the Middle East, then yes, that is sensible.
However, you need to remember that it is Mr Cameron who wishes the UK to remain within the chaotic disaster of the EU, and moreover will campaign to that end in any coming referendum. I would not class that as “doing well”
September 24, 2015
@ Mike Stallard – You say “We must maintain that role”. “Must” is not a word to be used to the over-crowded, recession-ridden, infrastructure-crumbling, capacity constrained, struggling if not broken society that is the sovereign UK.
September 24, 2015
Indeed.
As you say:- officials and some of the leading politicians have fallen prey to the “We must be seen to be doing something”, even if that something is unrealistic or unhelpful.
But is this not the standard reaction of EU officials and politicians to nearly all situations? Logic, sensible planning, systems that work and reason seem to be unknown to them. It is all about one size fits all and “ever closer union”.
September 24, 2015
Listening to the Faron and the Libdims on the Daily Politics yesterday was hugely depressing, they are as always wrong on nearly every single issue (other than civil liberties and warmongering sometimes). They are emotion over brain every time. They seem to be a party aimed as dim, naive, silly children. The leader even gets his politics for dramas like Cathy Come Home.
He grew up near Preston near to where I was a child and about the same time and it was quite a buoyant place as I recall. Even if it did have a disused I think gas works.
Most depressing of all is that by 2 to 1 Libdims prefer Corbyn to Cameron. But Cameron is essentially an interventionist Libdem in all his policies – greencrap, pro EU, high tax borrow and waste, pay controls, price intervention, free at the point of rationing NHS, Schools, etc. intervene before breakfast, lunch and supper.
If Cameron we in the Libdims he would be the leader I suspect.
September 24, 2015
The whole of the EU is only as strong as its weakest border.
The Free Movement policy within the EU is the draw. Once through the weakest border free passage to the northern states is assured. Those southern states innundated by pushy young men can issue EU passports and send them on their way to ease their overcrowding – once this is done then Britain shares the problem.
The only way to stop this is through the restoration of national borders throughout the EU. In other words the abandonment of the EU project.
September 24, 2015
It is obvious that the EU hasnt got a clue as to how to solve this crisis. Their only solution seems to be talking a lot and throwing even more money at it. All I can say is that I am pleased to hear that the UK is swimming with enough extra money that we can afford to pledge yet another hundred million, and are lectured yet again that ‘we must do more’. I must admit that I cringe every time our Prime Minister leaves this country, as it usually costs the UK taxpayer dear. I have a lot of sympathy with Hungary and the others who are standing their ground. Germany caused this problem. Let them sort it!
September 24, 2015
‘I must admit that I cringe every time our Prime Minister leaves this country, as it usually costs the UK taxpayer dear.’
So true! He lost all credibility years ago, as did many of his ministers. They let the good ones down. Spending our largesse just to placate his masters in the EU, to the disadvantage of the UK, is just not acceptable.
The UK police could do with that money. It was reported on BBC Radio Cambridgeshire this morning that only one in one-hundred cases of cyber fraud are ever investigated. The police are inundated with crime and can no longer manage. I sent a text to Mike Penning earlier to see if he fancied going on local radio to make the case for the government, but at the time of writing, I’ve heard absolutely nothing.
If this is the contemptuous way the Tories treat the UK voter, I dare say many more people will see them for what they are and desert them. We desperately need the kind of strong, responsible leadership that none of the three main Westminster parties are able to give. How about a leadership challenge John?
Tad
September 25, 2015
The police have largely given up on investigation most crimes. Much of the NHS seems to have given up too and moved to a ration, deter and delaying system rather than a provider of treatment.
I am not sure that even more money on its own would make any difference. They would just buy nicer offices and up the pay and pensions.
September 24, 2015
That’s quite a good point about the Prime Minister CG. He certainly seems to come back from every EU meeting holding an invoice that has to be paid.
September 24, 2015
Germany needs 500000 migrants every year for the next 45 years to retain the numbers needed in its workforce due to an aging population and drop in birthrate of German people. As always to quote Clinton ” Its the economy stupid”. As always they flout any treaties they want and bully what they want through. Meanwhile we’re waiting for the Tories to do something like suspend fee movement until the crisis is resolved? Unfortunately a backbone and leadership is required and Farage didn’t get elected. We got the no ifs or buts promise and utter failure.
September 24, 2015
The number of 120,000 is immaterial to those pushing this through, once they have bullied all countries to accept this the numbers will rise for sure.
How anyone could wish to be controlled by the obviously inept & parasitic EU is beyond me.
September 24, 2015
Yep, and in fact we don’t even know what Cameron means by “20,000”, whether after some slippage and then family reunion that will end up as 200,000.
September 24, 2015
It is all too late, John. The dams have burst and an unmanageable number of people are moving into Europe, whose leaders have earned our contempt at their failure to have any practical ideas as to how to bring it under some semblance of control.
The Euro and Schengen are in imminent danger of imploding and since they are the very basis of the EU dream (or should that be nightmare), the EU commissars will have to impose even more strict control of those nations who fail to toe the EU party line.
Instead of attacking those nations whose borders are the border of the EU and who have strengthened their defenses, surely the first EU action should have been to support them in order to at least try to reduce the numbers. I fear that far, far worse is yet to come…
September 24, 2015
Martyn – Some of us have been trying to tell them for years that this would happen and that the situation was urgent – back then.
It is difficult not to say I TOLD YOU SO
In a way there is a wonderful catharsis in having been proven right and proven sane.
Within the next year or two there will be no doubt that the Tory Party were as complicit in this as the Blair government and that will be the icing on the cake.
Well what else have I got to look forward to ?
September 24, 2015
Indeed, far worse IS yet to come. Those mobilised by Merkels 800,000 pledge will take months to arrive and with the warning of the Lebanese premier, ignored 1 in 20 are ISIS anyway, the future is not bright
September 24, 2015
Slightly off topic:
i was always of the understanding that we elect MPs to protect our economic, social, and physical security. How heartening, then, to see that two elected MPs are looking for ways to sue the government for doing just that.
etc ed
September 24, 2015
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at the current situation but I do know I am very angry that politicians seem to have not one ounce of common sense when it comes to dealing with this problem. It is obvious we cannot go on like this and even the common bloke in the street has foreseen what would and is happening. I feel it is the end of the UK never mind the EU. I just hope this is enough to make people vote to come out of Europe. That is the only way we will get back powers to stop this swarm.
In the background on Radio 4 I can hear the Pope going on about climate change and now a discussion. Is there nothing more important to talk about other than something they cannot do anything about as it is a natural occurrence. I feel we have a bunch of inexperienced schoolboys in government and in opposition at the moment and we need people with plain old common sense. Let’s stop taking in immigrants to our shores and send them back. We are already doing all we can in Syria so how much more money are we stomping up while the rest of Europe let more in? Vote NO to Europe.
September 24, 2015
Dr.JR is absolutely right . First of all Germany – who really led this immigration mess , and then other EU countries , failed to understand the scenario . Migrants – most of them economic , have been encouraged to believe they can simply up sticks and go to wherever they felt they would be wanted , instead they now face an allocation process that does not take into account their preferences . The hordes can easily upset the cultural and economic balances of some of the EU countries , so , like Slovakia , they have said “No”. The result is mayhem and real damage to the EU system .
There is no doubt that a strong message has to be sent out to end this mess and it needs to be co-ordinated at UN level ; Brussels is the wrong place . As far as we are concerned it makes no sense to link with Brussels .
September 24, 2015
Bert, the UN and the EU are I believe much closer than many people realise, with the EU being a tool whereby UN passes down material/policy to be converted into EU law and thereby disseminated to the Member States. What Peter Sutherland, UN special representative on migration, displays in his rhetoric and evidence to a House of Lords Home Affairs sub committee on migration is hugely worrying, but seems to demonstrate that there is clear UN backing for this mass movement of people and accompanying redistribution of wealth. This mass migration into Europe and policy of multiculturalism is no surprise for the UN and furthermore seems to have been encouraged by it: see excerpts from BBC website article copied below.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395
Sutherland apparently said
“The EU should do their best to undermine member countries by immigration…”
“ There is a concerted political will to destroy nation states through mass immigration”
“The EU should “do its best to undermine” the “homogeneity” of its member states” “He told the House of Lords committee migration was a “crucial dynamic for economic growth” in some EU nations “however difficult it may be to explain this to the citizens of those states”.
An ageing or declining native population in countries like Germany or southern EU states was the “key argument and, I hesitate to the use word because people have attacked it, for the development of multicultural states”, he added….
He told the committee: “The United States, or Australia and New Zealand, are migrant societies and therefore they accommodate more readily those from other backgrounds than we do ourselves, who still nurse a sense of our homogeneity and difference from others. “And that’s precisely what the European Union, in my view, should be doing its best to undermine.”
September 24, 2015
Sadly we need to review our position on asylum too. In these days of easier transport we simply do not have the space to take everyone from a war zone who wants to come here.
We already have a lot of needy people we should look after a whole lot better.
September 24, 2015
I get a disappointed about remarks that “controlling” borders will solve this problem.
What would we in Britain do if ships full of refugees appeared in some of the Cornish ports?
What is the last Conservative foreign secretary (Mr Hague) up to these days? Is he pleased at the instability in Syria and Libya? Does he have questions to answer?
As I have mentioned before some nasty dictators have been undermined to be replaced by anarchy.
September 24, 2015
“What would we in Britain do if ships full of refugees appeared in some of the Cornish ports?”
While nothing is being done to stop boats/ships departing it’s absolutely possible for those involved to get hold of some decommissioned rusting container ship pack it full of bodies (and most will end up just that) before setting course for the UK.
Positive action is needed now, not after the EU decides on yet another crises meeting some time in the future.
Proud to be linked to Europe, not me!
September 24, 2015
In my experience working as an immigration official what government says and does sends the most powerful message to people in poor countries looking for the opportunity to work. Thus Angela Merkel’s statement that Germany was open to migrants was an incredibly reckless act. It’s as if she had put out a message on Facebook saying there’s a party at mine tonight and then she is surprised when a thousand people turn up and wreck her house. Really stupid.
What next? The EU needs to send a powerful message that it means to reintroduce control and they won’t give in after five minutes to force majeure. One option used by the Australians is to establish reception centres outside the jurisdiction and have a long term policy only to allow in those who clearly qualify as a refugee. For Europe this might mean doing a deal with and providing financial incentives to countries in Africa or the Near East to host those reception centres.
The alternative is to accept mass migration and a Europe that is changed out of all recognition within a few years. Pretty big stuff, and one wonders whether the EU as presently constituted can deliver a coherent policy.
September 24, 2015
Another example of how dysfunctional the EU is but the reason for it coming into existence and the way it’s structures and institutions were designed and set up was bound to ensure that. Added to which it is unable to adapt quickly and is not flexible enough to deal with rapidly changing circumstances.
Perhaps lefties will learn from this crisis and the many others that have dogged the EU that bureaucratic undemocratic central command and control is a recipe for very unfortunate consequences, disharmony and disruptive dislocation of societies(by not just the immigrants but also by the dictatorial methods employed to ensure member states comply with whatever Brussels believe they should) . Of course they wont.
September 24, 2015
Perhaps for the EU it was not a futile debate to talk about the allocation of 120,000 migrants (whom much of the media and many politicians still erroneously refer to as refugees); maybe it was a deliberate diversionary tactic by the EU to distract attention away from the horrendously large scale of the ‘crisis’ exacerbated by the words of Frau Merkel.
When it comes to such matters I don’t accept the cock up theory. All that is happening was initiated deliberately even though the way it has developed was less clear. As usual, the views of the people in the EU countries are ignored. The media has been one giant propaganda machine, not objectively reporting facts but subjectively describing events intended to provoke a positive emotional response. I listen daily with incredulity to people unwilling to recognise that if not halted this is just the beginning of the mass migration of millions from Africa and the Middle East.
In the meantime the media reporting of migrants coming here illegally through Calais has stopped. Does anyone think that they are still not coming?
September 24, 2015
It is a complete and utter shambles with unpredictable consequences – none are likely to be benign.
September 24, 2015
QMV, QMV, It foretells the future if we remain in the EU. Which the LibDems and the socialists are happy with. They complain about austerity, welfare, the NHS etc but are willing to exacerbate the problem by admitting thousands, possibly millions of uneducated economic migrants.
The Eastern member states who are against mass immigration have been forced into submission by QMV.
Mr Cameron is at odds with Brussels on many points and QMV could be used against the UK in the future if we remain in membership. It is just fortunate that we are not in Shengen.
The Independent had a go at vilifying the actions of Camerons Government. They opened it to comment and the paper was without exception the one being
vilified by its readers (the Public).
September 24, 2015
I have thought it was a good idea for the UK to accept Syrian Christian refugees ever since I met some and heard how they were genuinely persecuted and forced into a war that was not theirs. My contact explained that Assad was only a figurehead for his clan and changing him would make no difference. They did not like the power to demand payments for things like permits or licences but were happy that they were protected. Since then, things have become very much worse. I was impressed that his family were all well educated professionals and business people with obviously no grudge against the Christian western nations and with no terrorists among them.
So it was disappointing to read the article by Lord Carey in your blog this week, in which he explained that the Christians had even been driven out of the refugee camps, which Mr Cameron is so keen to support, and they will not be eligible to be taken by the UK. Instead we will be taking the Shias and Sunnis who started the dreadful war, with the encouragement of the western politicians who were so keen on the Arab spring. How they believed they could overturn Arab traditional tribal politics and install parliaments overnight is something that should be investigated and the cost attributed.
September 24, 2015
An Australian system is inevitable and will save lives when it is finally implemented.
In the meantime the current arrangement is killing people as they attempt to accept Germany’s immoral and reckless invitation.
September 24, 2015
I am sorry to say that though Dr Redwood is more realistic than most of our representatives in Westminster, he is still unwilling to come to terms with the fact that the Asylum system can’t be made to work, and will never work.
As I have said before, the 1951 Refugee Convention is a blank cheque written by a past generation that we have no hope of honouring. Even in the unlikely hood of us ever being able to separate out those who are migrants and those who are refugees, we will never EVER be able to accommodate all the people who will have a rightful claim to asylum.
The 120,000 migrant/refugees the EU want to settle , when taken in light of the sheer numbers that have a right to claim asylum is a hopeless and pathetic gesture, but that is of course not the point is it, for it’s about making the metropolitan set feel really really good about them selves in their politically correct dinner parties in Islington, safe in the knowledge that these people won’t be dumped in their streets , but on the poorest people of our country who are least able to cope.
So this policy does nothing to make a dent in the numbers who could claim asylum, materially damages the prospects of the poorest in our society, all to allow the chattering classes signal their virtue. Contemptible!
September 24, 2015
But as I have said before, the 1951 Convention itself was designed to deal just with the aftermath of the Second World War and just in Europe, and it would now be more or less a dead letter if it weren’t for the insane 1967 Protocol which extended the application of its terms to the whole world in perpetuity.
September 24, 2015
Let’s be brutally frank about this and admit that the problem is not just the EU, it’s the German domination of the EU which other member states have allowed to develop.
If the Swedish Prime Minister had made a public statement effectively inviting anybody with some potential claim to asylum to come to Sweden, but the German government saw that as a threat to German interests, then Merkel would have slapped him down and negated his invitation and it would not have sparked the same kind of mass flow.
Historically the British strategy was always to seek to form a coalition against the threat of the overweening power of any one country on the continent.
A succession of seven such coalitions had to be formed to finally defeat Napoleon, with Britain part of all but one of them:
http://www.napoleonguide.com/coalitions.htm
But present-day British governments show no inclination to attempt the formation of coalitions of nations to curb Germany, on the contrary they often positively support the growth of German domination to our own endangerment.
September 24, 2015
Ian. Indeed so when you say:
“As I have said before, the 1951 Refugee Convention is a blank cheque written by a past generation that we have no hope of honouring.”
Conventions such as this, and indeed all EU “treaties” need to have an automatic ‘;sunset clause’ by which they are re-examined by national parliaments and either endorsed or rejected irrespective of arbitrary decisions made by the PM of the day.
September 24, 2015
Merkel has pronounced a willingness to accept 800,000 migrants/refugees, so:
– once settled they’re free to roam the whole Schengen area
– unless she plans to ask Lufthansa to arrange 2,000 747 mercy flights they have to come through Greece or Eastern Europe who can’t cope
– while Germany’s population has shrunk, ours is rising rapidly, driven by migration
– once you create the ‘honeypot’ don’t be surprised if thousands of bees swarm to it, especially if there is an illegal push effect by people traffickers
– the UK’s approach to help refugees to stay close their homeland is laudable, though not followed by any other country to the same degree it seems, but needs action to sort Syria out too so they can eventually go home
– why are the rich Gulf states not helping out?
– the elephant in the room, and why UKIP continues to gain traction, is the fear of increasing Islamisation of our country, fine in itself if we could be sure there were no further risk of radicalisation leading to terrorist atrocities. Sadly we cannot be sure of that and we have Frau Merkel to thank for the increasing risks to our security.
September 24, 2015
As I’ve mentioned before John, I worked and contributed 45 yr, then retired injured. Given a pittance of £3.01 a day by the DWP, for one year, then told I don’t qualify for a single penny – – can you please explain why thousands of foreigners can walk in here and stick their hands out, wanting, and getting, a free life? Having contributed exactly nothing, they are entitled to housing (maintained by the taxpayer), benefits ( from the taxpayer) and NHS ( paid for by the taxpayer). Why should any of those marching like an invading horde across Europe, yelling, screaming , shouting and behaving in a threatening manner, be given ANYTHING? these are clearly not fleeing anything. Taking selfies after having got to Greece doesn’t stink of persecution. None of them look starving. How, after supposedly sleeping rough for days, do they appear to have clean clothes on, are clean shaven etc – and one muslim woman was shown with only her face uncovered – -with, as my female fried described it, a full face of immaculate make-up on !
Why don’t you all just admit that England and the English are to be deliberately (overridden? Ed) Unlimited numbers, all going to be given free everything is unsustainable . . especially when THEIR culture is going to be forced on this country. We are being made to pay for our own (problems ed)
I suggest you contact the BBC – ask them to announce that soon it really WILL be the “Last night of the Proms” . and to stop singing the line “Britain never never never shall be slaves” – -because we already are ! – – supplying anyone who turns up with do-nothing-all-on-the-taxpayer-lives.
September 24, 2015
One question I have for the UK government.
Are you going to stop your support for Washington’s illegal and immoral wars that cause mass migrations and untold misery for the benefit of US war corporations?
September 24, 2015
JR, I read here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11886920/Britain-faces-150m-cost-for-EU-migrant-crisis.html
“Britain faces £150m cost for EU migrant crisis”
“Jean-Claude Juncker demanded that countries including Britain “put their money where your mouth is” as he announced the EU will spend an extra €1.7 billion (£1.25 billion) on emergency support to European countries, EU police officers and humanitarian aid.
Britain faces having to pay as much as £150 million to the EU despite repeatedly making it clear it does not wish to take part in common schemes to address the migrant crisis, according to an analysis by Open Europe, the think-tank.”
But I have read in our “opt-out” Protocol (No 21) attached to the EU treaties here:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:12012M/TXT
“Article 5
A Member State which is not bound by a measure adopted pursuant to Title V of Part Three of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union shall bear no financial consequences of that measure other than administrative costs entailed for the institutions, unless all members of the Council, acting unanimously after consulting the European Parliament, decide otherwise.”
It is not clear how these two statements can be reconciled, unless the UK government has agreed in the Council that the UK will bear that £150 million cost.
September 24, 2015
Though we are not obligated to pay, our brilliant establishment will some how contrive to create the situation where we have to shell out millions if not billions.
Never underestimate their ability to turn a winning hand into one where we lose our shirts.
September 24, 2015
Merkek invited them, Merkel can have them round for Bratty and Chips and stay the night.
September 24, 2015
I find it a bit strange that those that pay people smugglers and take a dangerous journey across the sea are welcomed and yet those taking a safer route to the land border between Turkey and Greece with no people smugglers involved are turned away. This is almost seen as rewarding those that take the greatest risk and pay the most.
If you consider the ruination of Europe following WW2 then I am reminded of the old northern saying (arguably Lancashire or Yorkshire) – clogs to clogs in three generations.
September 24, 2015
I applaud CMD’s stance in only inviting asylum seeker from source, the refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon. It offers a chance for them to be positively vetted before they travel to the UK. I suspect that there will be many that prove a positive asset to the UK as did the Ugandan Asians from years past.
The way it is being handled by the EU, if that is not an exaggeration, invites limitless numbers of asylum seekers as well as I suspect a vast number of economic migrants. It is also an open door to terrorism in Europe sponsored by the caliphate. As the Euro has demonstrated the different levels of economic activity within the EU, so quota imposed immigration highlights the different needs among the nation states of the EU. The poor economies of the East European states, Italy ,Greece, and the states of the former Yugoslavia do not want an increased social cost within their economies. Germany on the other hand would seem not to have been reproducing at a rate to support their elderly population so they welcome a great influx of workers and tax payers to rebalance their social budget.
To impose an overall set of quotas for all EU states in ignorance of their economic need is not democratic and indicative of the way the EU is run. The writing has been on the wall for many years but the current situation really highlights it. Our politicians who blindly fail to read the runes and desire to retain our political membership of the EU should be condemned absolutely. Trade, friendship, and cooperation where we choose is the only logical way forward.
September 24, 2015
It would appear from reports in the press that the Queen did not appreciate the gamble with the future of Scotland taken by CMD in the recent referendum. One can only assume that she is equally appalled at his desire to tie us into the EU, handing the sovereignty of the country to the inadequacies of Brussels. Her, by name, predecessor would have had him in the Tower never to emerge but lifeless.
September 24, 2015
One thing we can do is to refuse entry to EU citizens with relatively new paperwork, say less than five years. Just turn them back.
On another matter, diesel cars.
There are some fundamental questions that need to be answered before draconian action is taken.
Is there a widespread problem with air quality and diesel vehicles, ( a proven link rather than speculation), universally or just in a few localised areas due to geography and natural local air movement.
What proportion of any problem is due to cars as opposed to commercial vehicles including buses and trains. Forgetting the green blob anti car movements cries, what if anything needs to be done.
Most people who bought diesel cars did so because of fuel economy and cared little for CO2 and other emissions. They will be very pleased to have their cars recalled and made even more complex and expensive to maintain in pursuit of the green dream.
September 24, 2015
“A university spokesman said government limits on medicine places have forced them to reject British applicants and look abroad.”
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/607283/NHS-medicine-University-of-Central-Lancashire-British-students-hospital-crisis-health
I have alluded to this in the past, but it is now time for MPs to get to the bottom of this anti-English policy: who defined it? What is the purpose of it? Which government Minister is enforcing it?
We were told that foreign doctors were only recruited who had been trained at academically robust overseas institutions; however, several cases that have come to light suggest that some practioners from overseas have demonstrated an unusual lack of ability to care which has put their patients’ lives in jeopardy.
September 24, 2015
The EU should have done something many months ago, but it was indecisive as usual on major issues.
I have sympathy with genuine refugees fleeing war, but according to Spiegel it is estimated that no more than 1 in 7 entering Germany are genuine refugees. The genuine refugees are probably those in camps in Lebanon and Jordan, but most of those entering the EU are economic migrants, nothing else. In spite of TV pictures, very few are in fact female and children few and far between. Meanwhile populations in many in African countries are soaring and many more will try to come to Europe.
Australia took a firm line sending them all back. The EU couldn’t agree and didn’t have the guts to do likewise.
(different groups of people can lead to social instability etc ed) How long before it becomes commonplace throughout Europe?
I’m glad that at my age I probably won’t have many more years in this world, but am very concerned about the future that my children will have to face.
September 24, 2015
The three closing sentences of your post sum up for me everything about the EU; I cannot understand why the political leaders of all its members, including our own, are so keen on preserving it, uness it is for the grandstnding opportunities it provides. We keep reading that the migrant crisis is likely to strengthen the hands of our negotiators in whatever renegotiation is happening. Unfortunately all this is really doing is letting the Government off the hook on many other aspects, in particular the return of powers to the UK Parliament which in the long term are far more important.
The migrant crisis will only be solved by returning stable government to the Middle East. The only leader who has any consructive policy to achieve this seems to be Mr Putin who looks to be attempting to give support to Mr Assad who leads what after all is the legitimate government of Syria. The Western leaders should reflect on what they have achieved in so many Middle eastern states by succouring rebels, however unsavoury the legitimate rulers might appear.
September 24, 2015
If the Dermans really want an extra 800,000 then surely there are much better ways for them to arrive in Germany than to walk. A fleet of planes flying from turkey to Germany would solve the problem and avoid children drowning en route.
The whole affair is a prevetable disaster and we are all going to suffer from it for a very long time. etc ed
September 24, 2015
Sorry to go O/T, but I just heard on BBC Midlands last night that the M6 Toll Road may be changing to “free at the point of use”.
This will be a gift for the struggling Australian owners as no doubt they will no be getting a guaranteed payment from taxpayers to get them out of the huge hole they dug for themselves, and obviously road users won’t complain because they won’t see the bigger picture and would be just grateful to be able to use it à la NHS.
Will the money be paid from the foreign aid budget?
September 24, 2015
Midland Expressway ltd were offered the choice of charging tolls or a payment from Central Government, based on usage, before the construction commenced. They chose the former, due to potential high repair costs from large traffic flows. The original plan was for the road to be a public motorway (A446M) but was changed to a toll road as a sop for the short payback time on the Thames Dartford crossing. A project also constructed by their Aussie owners. In my opinion, they made their bed, etc….
September 24, 2015
Apparently “Temperatures in Iraq reached 122 F. in July and August “. Who there would not want to move to cooler climates?
September 25, 2015
122F, 50C. Lifelogic’s islands have not seen any of this heat, so it did not happen.
September 24, 2015
Frau Merkel made an enormous error in trying to solve her labour shortages by issuing an open invitation to all and sundry to come to Germany. This issue: in addition to the open borders, caused the chaos we now see with every news bulletin. Come what may, hoards of migrants will have to be repatriated, with only genuine refugees allowed to remain. This is going to be a very complicated and expensive policy: but we can expect serious problems if tough actions are not carried out now. Clearly, there is a high percentage of young fit men from all over the middle east, and further afield, who are purely economic migrants. These will have to be repatriated: if not, then the flood will get worse. Frau Merkel will need to be seen to repatriate the very type of migrant she wished for. Who can blame the smaller ex soviet states for rejecting Germany’s plan?
September 24, 2015
There seems to be an optimistic misconception in some quarters that this problem of mass migration into the EU – in fact an invasion,(etc ed) – can best be solved by “addressing the root causes”.
Well, how many years, and how much blood and treasure, have we expended trying to address the root causes in Afghanistan, with so little success that 40,000 Afghans sought asylum in the EU in the first six months of 2015?
There is no way that this problem can be solved by “addressing the root causes”, which are partly tribal but mainly religious, over a period of less than decades.
So what in the meantime? Shut the door, that’s what, except of course that evil woman Merkel doesn’t want to shut the door, she wants it flung wide open.
September 24, 2015
Iwill be voting out
September 24, 2015
Only about 20% to 25% of the would be migrants landing on Europe’s southern shores are Syrians. Nearly all of the others are economic migrants, from Afghanistan, Kosovo, Eritrea, Africa etc. We’ve all seen the pictures of healthy, strapping young men battering the border gates erected by Hungary and forcing their way into railway carriages. Better not send any of that little lot to Rotherham.
David Cameron has done exactly the right thing – act as a sovereign nation, specify whom and how many we will take and where we will take them from. Labour wants to take more because 85% of Muslims vote Labour. The LibDems want to take more because they’ve got sawdust where their brains should be.
We have to recognise that the chaotic EU policy is down to its wish to assert its Federal Authority. Germany is at the heart of this. It is instructive that all of the organisations that wish to end the existence of Nation States – EU, UN, BBC, OECD etc. etc. back the “Let them all come” policy. The EU is prepared to use QMV to override the wishes of Hungaria, Romania, Slovakia and the Czech Republic.
What I find amazing is that the UK government is not taking advantage of the situation by urging Hungary etc. to leave the EU or to force Treaty change in favour of a non-Federal structure – de Gaulle’s l’Europe des Patries. This suggests that in the Conservative Party the pro-European tail is still wagging the Eurosceptic dog. A change in personnel at the top is needed.
As for Europe sorting out its problem, it needs to set up camps and processing centres in the Greek islands or in Libya and to admit no-one except through those processing centres. Economic migrants would be returned to their country of origin; if they’ve thrown away their passports, they should be in for a long wait.
If Germany wants to let in 800,000 immigrants, let it lay on ships from Pireas and other Mediterranean ports to Hamburg. It goes without saying that UK law must be amended to prevent these people coming to UK.
September 24, 2015
The oddest thing about this thing is that by Merkel’s calamitous pronouncement, we have farmed out our immigration policy to Syrian and Libyan people smugglers.
A proper immigration policy might consider factors such as EU skills shortages, or the degree of persecution of the refugees. Instead, the people smugglers decide who comes here, according to whether they’ve paid. And by picking them up from their boats, we do half the people smugglers’ work for them.
So what we need to do is turn the boats back; return all people in boats to Libya or Turkey. All people caught crossing by land are returned. All of them. No-one gets here via that route. This is the humane thing to do.
Then, we take more from the camps, for there is genuine crisis, and desperate need; if our country was in the same state as Syria, I hope to God someone would have mercy on me and take me. That process must look for the most vulnerable, that is, the Christians and the Yazidis, who are currently harassed out of the refugee camps, and unable to access the asylum/refugee process.
Everything we are doing now is wrong.
September 24, 2015
Searching the web, I find detail of Germany’s ability to take care of its migrant tented population of several months ago missing. Missing too are details of its infrastructure provision for humanitarian basic needs of present day-by-day influx of human beings.
The German Government should be compelled as a matter absolute urgency to answer questions in tremendous detail of its housing provisions, new sanitation works including new sewerage pipes and effluent management., number of nurses, doctors, midwives, GPs, new fire-brigade offices and depots, gas and electricity provision to new areas; the number and location of spare beds in its hospitals. etc etc etc by the UN
Thus far I have only managed to find a short paragraph by Deutsche Welle concerning prefabricated buildings which are 6 months behind schedule ( a schedule devised a year ago ) . Of course these need erecting by workers ( where have these skilled workers come from, suddenly? ) Where have the central heating operatives sprung from, to connect or even build infrastructure to these non-existent dwellings?.
Where have all the tents come from and how does the national government know where to send them as they do not control even indirectly available land in the regions where they MAY be allowed to pitch them?
Something stinks about Germany’s trumpeted “ability” to even provide temporary accommodation.
Germany should not be trusted to look after people properly to standards the civilised world expects. Like in regard to their cars, their word counts for nothing. The UN must be alerted and Germany should be on-site inspected by UN bodies.
September 24, 2015
Rushing to get their paperwork done to be EU citizens so they can cross by ferry on mass, millions here already with millions coming with the right paperwork to come in, cannot wait, should be a good laugh as they will be at the front of every queue in country as government has approve this, your waiting times up by years not months.
September 24, 2015
I bet a lot of our old servicemen never thought they would see Germany calling the shots!
September 24, 2015
Divide et impera…. As has been clear for a long time, this is the endgame. Break down national structures and create a mass of conflicting small tribes who can be more easily controlled, fleeced and governed with our glorious elite and 1% driving the helm…..
zorro
September 24, 2015
They say “If you can’t beat them, join them” and then destroy from within. It is working with the Church of England and the Tory party so why not Rome as well?
September 24, 2015
This exposes the flaw in free movement of people.
Countries like the UK have traditionally taken many refugees when the need arose because it could control immigration.
Now we have unlimited emigration from poorer parts of the EU to the richer parts which means the richers countries are limited when there is a need to take refugees.
The poorer countries that have the space have been made poorer because of that emigration and so don’t want to take the refugees. The richer nations have taken on so many economic migrants that they don’t want to take many.
That said I don’t think the answer is to accept all those many males fleeing either. Families okay but not the huge number of males who have fled the women and children, taken the money and ran. That’s a whole other subject.
September 24, 2015
Massively unrepresentative question time audience again I see. How long will the BBC be allowed to get away with this nonsense.
September 25, 2015
Ive just watched Question Time recorded from last night, and have concluded that this country is lost. The only person who spoke sense on the immigration issue was Suzanne Evans. Ken Clarke said taking twenty thousand refugees was ‘a good start’ and admitted that we might have to take more. Why? The audience was composed of mainly people (probably students) who came from other countries, who clapped enthusiastically when it was suggested that we could take more refugees.
It is obvious to me that no matter how many we take. Or how much money we give, it will never be enough for some people. We get no gratitude from any quarter. Personally I cant wait to vote to leave the EU. We dont need them bad mouthing us all the time!!
September 25, 2015
I wander why they do not have their own political party here, with millions more coming and with high birth rate surly they could out vote ukip with only 4 million votes.