We could control our borders outside the EU but not inside it

It was strange to read yesterday that if we leave the EU we could lose the Calais frontier system currently in operation. This border is the result of a bilateral agreement between France and the UK which has nothing to do with the EU. France could unilaterally renounce it at any time. If she did so and we were still in the EU it would make it difficult for us as people arriving in Dover from Calais would have legal protections for their claim to reside and work here from EU law, with European Court making the final decisions. If we were outside the EU then the UK Parliament could introduce new laws like Australia’s to control the numbers.

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70 Comments

  1. The Active Citizen
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    ‘Strange’ is one way of putting it I suppose.

    JR, are you not starting to become concerned at the level of the debate? I think many of us find it very disturbing to say the least that the PM and his office are putting out such erroneous stuff, before the campaign proper has even started. To say nothing of the fact that the PM isn’t even supposed to be campaigning for Remain yet.

    The way things are already going from the Remain side, the whole debate looks like it will cause irreparable damage to the Conservative Party. Maastricht will look like a picnic by comparison, if this carries on.

    Are you able to express any thoughts on this?

    • agricola
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      A piece of playground diversion, perhaps CMD has a horror vision of these economic migrants setting up camp in Witney. With his level of control they might well achieve it.

      On leaving the EU we regain our border and if we so choose, an immigration policy akin to our cousins in Australia. It will be great to meet the family again.

      • DaveM
        Posted February 9, 2016 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

        “….. CMD has a horror vision of these economic migrants setting up camp in Witney…..”

        Maybe if that happened the Witney electorate would recall their MP. Anyone else fancy chipping in for some ferry tickets and a couple of coaches?

        • Hope
          Posted February 9, 2016 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

          Read Hannan on the subject. He is clear and concise that it is not an EU matter. Cameron discredits himself and is rapidly becoming a liability to his party and his own campaign. The Tories need to rid themselves of him. After all he has already declared he is going. It needs to be remembered Osborne is of the same ilk and wants his job. Good to read Osborne’s brother is being held to account for his inappropriate behaviour.

        • Hope
          Posted February 9, 2016 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

          No, Cameron is threatening us with his own incompetence. He also highlights his failure to deliver one of his no ifs or buts about immigration.

          Has he managed to truthfully deliver anything on immigration to cut numbers or make us safe? Does he think he minimum wage or giving away of social housing will increase or decrease the immigrant number?

          Instead of stopping Sharia law in this country, in line with his notion of promoting Britishness or assist integration, or one law for all, or preventing radicalization etc. We read he is encouraging Sharia investment! He is clueless and wrong in every PR stunt which he would call a strategy. He is a walking disaster. Look at the mess he made of Lybia or supporting vile Syrian rebels who turn out to be ISIS and created instability and more immigration!

        • Lifelogic
          Posted February 10, 2016 at 2:06 am | Permalink

          Just desperation from the remain side. Did the government not rat yet again on a proper MP recall system?

          I see that Dominique Grieve has correctly pointed out the total futility of any UK (Cameron distraction type) bill to “make clear” UK sovereignty. The EU courts in Luxembourg would still be supreme if we were to remain.

          A remain vote is a vote to end what little remains of UK democracy.

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted February 10, 2016 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

            I wasn’t aware that Dominic has transitioned, but in May 2006 he voted for the government to be authorised to do what he now rejects out of hand – disapply EU laws.

    • JoeSoap
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      Yes, who are the real fruit and nutcakes now?
      Very glad I didn’t vote for this lot in the last election.

      • DaveM
        Posted February 9, 2016 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

        Indeed, I was thinking myself yesterday – who is looking more and more like a swivel-eyed loon now?!

    • Hope
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      I think it demonstrates the inadequacies of Cameron. Has he forgotten it is his job to protect our borders and to make sure we are safe? What has he done about the thousands of illegal immigrants lost from the system? Why has Teresa May not been properly held to account?

      Lucky Churchill did not have the same mindset as Cameron in 1939 when threatened with proper armed invasion! As the in crowd like to speak about what the dead might have done, it is totally appropriate to draw a comparison what an utter disaster Cameron is at keeping our country safeparticularly from mass immigration, no ifs or buts about it.

  2. Mike Stallard
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    I used to trust Mr Cameron.
    But gradually his attitude is eating into my loyalty.
    This business about the le Touquet Treaty is so pathetic coming from a British Prime Minister that all those jokes about the little piece of paper and Mr Chamberlain are beginning to ring horribly true.
    His “colleagues” have callously hung him out to dry. If that is how they treat us, would you really like to work with them?

  3. matthu
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    Cameron lost the plot a bit on the Calais migrant issue there. Just like he did when he claimed he was meeting all of his manifesto commitments about EU.

    (Allegations about another matter left out ed)

  4. Roy Grainger
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    It is interesting that now the referendum is coming that several Tory ministers who have been pleased to make Eurosceptic noises in the past are now unable to cover up the fact they’re almost certainly going to vote Remain – Mrs May, Boris etc. It seems the Tory MPs as a whole represent their grassroots about as badly as the Labour MPs do.

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:01 am | Permalink

      Sadly, history shows that on matters relating to the EU most Conservative MPs put career and party loyalty before country.

    • alan jutson
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      Roy

      “Mrs May, Boris etc”

      I wonder if these so called Leader Candidates, and other supposedly big hitter Mp’s have thought through the long game.

      If they campaign for Remain, and the Country votes for Leave, then surely they have absolutely no chance of ever becoming the next leader let alone Prime Minister.

      The General Public do not forgive too easily, it usually takes a long time.

      • alan jutson
        Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:57 am | Permalink

        OOP’s

        Forgot Osbourne, has he been hiding of late, or pulling strings for others !

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted February 10, 2016 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

          Plotting with Mandelson, alleges Peter Oborne.

  5. DaveM
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Mr R,

    I don’t think anyone’s really being fooled by these empty threats.

    However, it’s the nature of them which is disturbing. Our PM – who has considerable resources at his disposal with which to protect our borders (and thus our security) – is effectively threatening not to use them if people vote the way he doesn’t want them to.

    There are allegedly some shenanigans going on in Crewe at the minute which would have been broadcast if etc ed

  6. Antisthenes
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    Out of the EU would make UK’s borders it’s own. So our border our rules would apply. However there is the small problem that if those currently in Calais set foot on our shores and ask for asylum they would be accommodated until they had been processed. I think under international law which we are subject to in or out of the EU we can actually send them back to Calais but we wont. Someone with a more complete knowledge of this will correct me if am in error on this assertion.

    Fortunately our border has the sea around it so giving us considerable control over access. The simple expedient of applying the same rules that we currently have for the carrying of illegal immigrants by airlines we apply to ferry operators and to the channel tunnel would keep most out. If in the unlikely event France decides to break the treaty that allows UK immigration control on it’s soil and at the same time stops guarding the channel tunnel we will have to find a way to guard it ourselves. Not an impossible task if somewhat inconvenient.

    David Cameron has joined the the FUD brigade the Europhiles with his gross distortion of the truth about immigrant camps and that is what it is if my assessment is correct about what the situation will be if we leave the EU. A group that appear to have no scruples that will lie and cheat to get their way. He is if I am right then not fit to be prime minister we cannot have one who has no integrity. We know most politicians tell us lies but they at least have the decency not to be so brazen about it.

  7. RB
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    I have been up all night reading the comment section here…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436649/Quitting-Europe-lead-Jungle-camps-Kent-claims-Cameron.html#comments

    It is breaking all records. perhaps Cameron is the greatest gift possible for the out campaign he is so slippery or is this a case of preaching to the converted? I suppose I need to read the Guardian comment section as well.

  8. Cheshire Girl
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    I sometimes wonder why we have a Government, as they do not seem to be able to do anything, apart from make silly rules and raise taxes. We are now told that things would be worse if we left the EU.
    Even if migrants get to our Borders, we dont have to let them in. Tough action – and not just talking – will be required, and for that we need a Leader with real backbone. It may be comfortable for our Leaders to leave things as they are, but for the rest of us things are getting uncomfortable, and may get even worse if we are ‘blackmailed’ into staying in the EU. Personally, I expect a lot more of this ‘scaremongering’ in the next few weeks. Those of us who want to leave the EU will have to be strong.

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:06 am | Permalink

      Your first paragraph encapsulates why they want us to remain in EU. They are unable to govern unless under instruction from an unelected, anti-democratic foreign organisation. The very thought of independent self-governance is anathema to them. As for democracy they have little but contempt for the very notion.

      • Mitchel
        Posted February 9, 2016 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

        @Brian Tomkinson.”The very thought of independent self-government is anathema to them”…Possibly the thought of actually having to make decisions for themselves rather than process orders from high command frightens them to death.

        • fedupsoutherner
          Posted February 9, 2016 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

          Mitchel, yes it probably does frighten them to death. Bit like the SNP. When they get the chance for extra powers they have to find excuses not to take them.

        • Know-Dice
          Posted February 9, 2016 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

          It’s not making the decision that’s the problem, it’s actually taking responsibility for their decisions.

          If they don’t have a “box to tick” to cover their backsides or someone else to blame when things go wrong then they are stuck.

  9. alan jutson
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Exactly.

    Anyone with common sense can see through Camerons latest verbal nonsense.

    As I have posted before.

    He seems terrified of having to accept the final responsibility, with no one else left to blame.

  10. Phil_Richmond
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    John – I was wondering your thoughts on how many Tory MPs have shown their true colours and are going to back the BSE campaign. I think you can split the Conservative Party MPs like this.

    1) Europhile fanatics who were always open about this.
    2) Europhile fanatics who made eurosceptic noises for political reasons.
    3) Eurosceptics who are putting career before country.
    4) Eurosceptics who have principles and are voting Leave.

    Category 4 is a very small minority! Im afraid to say that as usual Peter Hitchens is right about the Conservative Party. I think the ONLY other senior Cabinet Minister who will come out for Leave is IDS.

    Reply Category 4 is certainly not a small minority, and might end up being a majority.

    • Mockbeggar
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

      It matters little how many MPs are voting one way or t’other. There are fewer than 700 of them and there are millions of us. The important thing is to get as many of the undecided to take courage and vote to leave the dead duck which is the EU.

      • alan jutson
        Posted February 9, 2016 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

        Mockbegger

        Whilst I take your point that there are only 650 of them and millions of us.

        They do need to take on board that we will be voting for them or not as the case may be in a few years time, and our votes may depend upon what they say and do in our name, whilst they have some present influence.

        Many MP”s may find themselves not elected again, if they make a choice and get it absolutely wrong, misrepresent us, or do not take account of our thoughts and wishes.
        Particularly those who seek to serve themselves first, instead of serving their Country.

  11. JoeSoap
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    You are absolutely right. Clearly it would inconvenience folk a little to have extra border controls but to think that we would let camps of migrants set up all over the South East in preference is, well, completely nuts!

    • DaveM
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

      Additionally, I keep hearing how the Jungle will suddely “lift and shift” to Kent. What are they going to do? Charter ferries? Although I suppose given the way DC sent RN ships to provide a ferry service in the Med* I wouldn’t put it past him to do the same in the Channel. That could lead to a mutiny though.

      *BTW I know several people who were involved in that little embarassment and nearly all of them were disgusted to be tasked in such a way.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted February 10, 2016 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

        I expect they joined the Navy to help defend the country, not to provide a ferry service for illegal immigrants.

  12. Bob
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    I read the following in the Telegraph

    “France on Monday night said it would not pull out of its border arrangements with the UK even in the event of Britain voting to leave the European Union.”

    Notwithstanding the above, you are correct Mr Redwood in pointing out that as an independent country we would have our own border controls and the train & ferry operators would be responsible to ensure that all passengers had valid travel documents, and any who may slip through would be returned to the last safe country of departure.

    Mr Cameron is bringing his campaign into disrepute with such obvious scare tactics.

  13. bigneil
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    When ( hopefully) we leave the EU France will be ordered by the EU leaders to stop that agreement. The EU will NOT allow anything to undermine its aim of TOTAL dictatorship.
    And Cameron’s claim of “jungles” in the south of England would not happen. Why is he having thousands of houses built all over the country? Hundreds of thousands of people are pouring in here every year. All want somewhere to live. A good portion of those people will have come here to do nothing contributory at all, but will still be allowed to access everything we have paid our taxes for years for, to build the society we live in. Now Cameron is letting in the world to bleed us dry. Our taxes will soon be paying for a lot more of those non-contributory immigrants to live in better housing than our own people.
    They still pour in to Europe from Turkey ( with more massing on their border as I write). A program last night ( Greece with Simon Reeve) showed Lesbos and some of the migration. Two Afghani “lads” – looked older – said they had heard in school in Kabul that the border to Europe was open and anyone could come – so ( their words?) they walked out of school and headed for Turkey. This really is the beginning of the end of Europe. Many millions more will come – all expecting everything altered to THEIR wishes. Assaults, shoplifting, rapes, murders etc already, have shown a lot worse is to come as their numbers rise . Why stay and fight for your own country? – -when there are other countries whose leaders allow you to just walk into and take everything that it’s own people have built up.

    etc ed
    Reply Most migrants are law abiding.

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:02 am | Permalink

      I have to say, it is not just a case of some migrants not breaking the law; it is disingenuous to say that in the circumstances, you must know that Mr Redwood.

    • sm
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

      Most migrants are law abiding? Maybe EU migrants.
      How many others ignore the rules and or the law and still are allowed to stay?

      I hope Kent County council and others are ready to hire buses to forward the resulting problems to the residential addresses of all the Euro-fanatic MP’s and their wealthy constituents who will no doubt welcome them.

  14. Bert Young
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    Controlling our borders simply means we will only allow those to enter the UK who are legitimately entitled to do so .Those who do not have legitimacy are returned from whence they came . If a “Calais migrant” arrived at a UK border and had no right of entrance , he/she would be sent back . The Border Control staff – if they are stretched , would need to be increased and “toughened” up to maintain a strict discipline to enforce the rules ; there would have to be no exceptions .

    Yesterday I indicated one way of keeping the French to the Treaty condition they signed up to ; their exports to us are vital to their economy and we could easily invoke many changes they would find economically uncomfortable . The Commonwealth would benefit considerably . Australia is the best example of how to be tough with the “unwanted” migrants ; a “soft” approach is open to many disadvantages .

    • Virgil
      Posted February 11, 2016 at 9:43 am | Permalink

      Yes, but they will doubtless be rewarded with lucrative sinecures in Brussels.

  15. Jumeirah
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    I have to say that there comes a time when ‘The Leader’ becomes dysfunctional and therefore a liabilty to the governance of the Country.
    In the interests of the Country the Elder Statesmen should lead by example and ask the incumbent to ‘Stand Down’.
    “It’s not the done thing old boy” and anyway ‘it’s not the right time’!
    It is in both instances – it’s been done before as we all remember very well and perhaps(?)in lesser circumstances.
    Removing a Leader is a very serious step and it is only to be taken where intervention of this kind is a matter of ugency and where it is vital to regain a ‘balanced’ perspective on how this Country should be led and governed.
    All persuasions have doubts about Democracy within the EU. Never mind Democracy in the EU it would appear that Democracy at home is more of a concern at this time with a Leader who effectively muzzles those who have a different opinion; suggests that MPs avoid listening necessarily to the views of the Constituency Party members and the Constituents themselves until after the results of his re-negotiation have come through; AND what of those Principles that HE has deemed fundamental to re-negoiate – are those in fact the most important to re-negotiate in the first place? Where there is a Leader who will not take advice and ‘will not be told’ and autocracy sets in – that’s the time to step in or in ‘real speke’ step down.
    They all started very so well didn’t they but what ‘tarnished’ them was – too long in the job, arrogance and self belief that only THEY have the answer and bludgeon those around them to fall into line.
    It wont get passed Moderation but at least I have got it out of my system.
    Ps: those that lead the ex it from EU are only strong if : you stick together with ONE VOICE! leaving the differences that you have amongst yourselves for another time. Right now your purpose is to persuade the Electorate that ‘we are better off OUT’ and come to a compromise on that (Politics is all about compromise as you EXPERIENCED MPS know very wel- one never gets everything one wants) but with in-fighting all one does is discredit yourselves and leave the people you are trying to persuade with the thought that you are a rabble with confusing ideas , a distraction and not a serious force to be LISTENED to. YOU John is somebody who thinks everything through from all angles before taking a position on it, stands no nonesense and people respect that and in doing so will listen – they stillbmay have different ideas but they will LISTEN and where they listen there is always the possibility of compromise.

    • getahead
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      “Where there is a Leader who will not take advice and ‘will not be told’ and autocracy sets in – that’s the time to step in or in ‘real speke’ step down.”

      Cameron does take advice, but from the big-business elites, the CBI, and the bankers who all seem to get some feedback from the £55 million a day EU membership costs the tax-payer.
      Cameron works for these people. Not for those who (foolishly) voted him into power.

  16. fedupsoutherner
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    I just wish everyone could speak sense like yourself John. I rather feel that the situation is such that our leaders and those in charge of border control have no control. Is this an admission that what we have in place is basically crap? Rather than wringing their hands why don’t they do what other countries do and control things for a change rather than rely on other countries to do half the job for them? It is almost like Cameron is taunting the French into saying what he wants and doing what he wants and scaremongering on a big scale. Get some b**ls Mr Cameron and start leading the country which is what we voted for.

  17. agricola
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    To those who have not read Daniel Hannan’s piece on this subject of yesterday I will precis it.

    There are bilateral agreements (2) covering the stationing of UK border controls in Calais. They are nothing to do with the EU whether we are in or out.

    Either France or the UK could withdraw from the Sangatte Protocol or the Le Touquet Treaty but it is not in the interests of either side to do so.

    Were France to do so against it’s interests then we could extend the Carriers Liability Act to Eurostar obliging France to carry out all the checks in France. Any mistakes would be at their risk and the return of the illegals.

    The inference that France would throw a tissy fit and not cooperate in their own interests in keeping Eurostar profitable is more an argument for leaving the EU than staying.

    Staying in the EU is the route to further control and being totally absorbed.

    Can the UK afford a PM like CMD in charge of public relations, and black propaganda.

  18. The Active Citizen
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    JR after your excellent post about sovereignty yesterday, FedUpSoutherner wrote: “John and Active Citizen, can I suggest you both apply to write the next episode of Yes Minister.”

    F.U.S, you’re too kind, but here goes a taster, with apologies to Sir Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn. JR, we all need some humour now and again so I hope you’ll allow this. Just a bit of fun and most definitely my responsibility not yours.

    [It’s 2020 and our host JR is the new Foreign Secretary, following the demise of the PM and all Europhile Ministers after the Referendum. The Active Citizen is JR’s new SpAdE (Special Advisor for Europe).]

    JR: [Peering down at his red box correspondence.] “What’s all this about these Junckers flying over here?”
    SpAdE : [Looking embarrassed.] “Ahem. I believe that one of Frau Merkel’s predecessors discontinued that policy around 1945, Foreign Secretary.”
    JR: “No, no, no. I mean Jean-Claude and his wife wanting to come over and see me for lunch.”
    SpAdE: “Ah yes. It seems he wants to discuss Most Favoured Nation status for Luxembourg, now that the EU has broken up. And I believe his wife still rather likes Bond Street.”
    JR: “Hmm. Well, I suppose he can have 30 minutes for old time’s sake. Forget lunch, offer him breakfast. And remember to lay on – “
    SpAdE: ” – the cognac. Yes, Minister.”

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 10:22 am | Permalink

      Like it, wouldn’t it be good to bring the programme back again? We could all contribute.

  19. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    Controlling borders is not just about people. We need to take control so we can import and export goods as we wish.

    The EU stops goods from South America entering our territory and prevents us from sending certain goods to China. A number of chemical products for example were banned by the Chinese authorities as tit-for-tat for EU actions against Chinese exporters.
    The EU was conducting a trade war against China and using our UK borders as part of their nasty war.

  20. Atlas
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    I want to know when “Submarine” Osborne is going to re-surface in this EU debate. It’s all been a bit ‘Gordon Brown’ quiet from him recently. I assume he is too busy doling out future sinecures to wavering MPs. Presumbably he will re-surface where there is credit to take…

  21. Tim L
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Presumably by voting out the people of this country are making it clear that the PM must stop illegal entry to the UK.

    We would be expecting ferry and Eurotunnel fares to rise, as they would need to introduce passport checks that allow only invited entrants to board. We would also be expecting the UK government to spend a lot more money on protecting our borders.

    Cameron seems to be saying he is not capable of this.

  22. Iain Moore
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    In or out of the EU or with or without the bilateral treaty with France, the French would still be obligated to check identities and travel documents on embarkation.

    It is somewhat desperate of Cameron to threaten us with something that everybody knows is patently not true, for most people have experience of international travel, and know they won’t be allowed to travel if they can’t prove their identity and don’t have the necessary documentation.

  23. AndyC
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    The current PM seems to be saying that we can’t possibly vote to leave, because his government is too incompetent/malicious/untrustworthy/traitorous to be allowed to exercise any kind of real sovereignty. I used to think there were no good arguments for remaining in the EU, but I do perhaps begin to see his point.

    Seriously, we now have a government which happily makes threats to to the well-being of its own people in order to achieve what it perceives to be in its own interests. This is not democratic behaviour. It seems as if our PM has lost all grip on reality and is openly daring his own party to confront him over his barefaced lies. Unfortunately it seems that all too few of his own party, from cabinet downwards, are going to do that. The MP for Folkstone of all places was on the news last night, spouting what I can only describe as tripe approved from Number 10.

    Ideally we will have a swift vote to leave, and then get a new PM in place by the party conference in the Autumn.

  24. Qubus
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    This is all really very simple: the PM is a liberal at heart, not a conservative . On TV he seems to be a reasonable and likeable person; he is an excellent, very confident performer at PMQs. You will remember that he only wanted to do the job of PM because he thought that he would be good at it. His only work-experience, in a cossetted life prior to politics, was a spell as a PR man. He is not aware of the financial and other problems that beset the average worker. From his previous background, the PM knows full well that the average man in the street, unlike the afficionados of this blog, is not very interested in politics and the nearest that the said man in the street will get to bothering about the referendum is to read a headline in someone else’s free newspaper whilst sitting on a bus. He knows that such headline-grabbing statements, whilst untrue, will stick in many people’s minds. Hence his calculating, misleading behaviour.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

      Qubus, totally agree. How low can the man stoop?

      • Anne mills
        Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

        Cameron is stooping so low now he could limbo dance under a snake wearing his Eton top hat.

  25. formula57
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    I think it very commendable that your friend the Prime Minister tells us of the risks of Brexit and I eagerly look forward to him soon giving us a warning that post-Brexit we will not be able to keep the pound Sterling. That proved effective on one recent occasion and I know it is not wholly applicable now but desperate times call for desperate lies, as Mr Juncker might nearly have said.

  26. Kenneth
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    I know many here do not agree with me but I think the PM is a great asset to the Conservative Party. Well I did until yesterday.

    If, in the event of Brexit and in the unlikely event that France somehow pushes immigrants through the Channel Tunnel, he is not planning to secure the border but to allow them through.

    I would never have believed a UK PM would say such a thing until I heard it yesterday.

    This irresponsible plan makes the PM a liability and may render the Conservatives unelectable.

    If this is the plan then the Conservative Party needs to find a new leader and the country needs a new Prime Minister – a Prime Minister who ensures that border security is maintained.

  27. English Pensioner
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    What surprises me is that the usual culprits haven’t shouted ‘racist’ at Cameron for his remarks about the Calais jungle moving here. After all, when UKIP talked about stopping non-EU immigrants coming to the UK, they were accused of racism by the Tories, amongst many others.

  28. Beecee
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    It is abundantly clear that the wrong David was elected leader. Another case of oratory rather than ability gaining the votes.

    • MickN
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

      I am sorry – that might have been my fault !
      In the days when I was a party member I actually voted for Cameron.
      I always preferred the policies of David Davies but I thought that the new leader should be the person who came across to the public best. I always thought he was a bit “wet” but thought that the most important thing was for the country to elect a Conservative government and I thought he had the best chances of doing so. I actually believed that the likes of William Hague who I had a lot of time for would have injected a shot of common sense and conservatism into him once elected.
      How wrong I was.

  29. Dennis
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Anyone inside the Schengan area can enter the UK now without showing any documentation?
    In 2004, being an indigenous UK citizen driving a UK registered car was prevented from boarding a ferry to Dover at Calais as I could not immediately find my passport to show.

    After 10 minutes or so I found it and proceeded. So if France does not implement this requirement would it not be acting illegally and if so should not the EU authorities make this clear now to France?

  30. Roy Grainger
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Irrespective of the pathetic infighting between the assorted Leave campaigns, and the civil war inside UKIP and the Tories, the outcome of this referendum will be determined by Labour voters. Corbyn has a long history of anti-EU rhetoric, he needs to be pushed more in Parliament and in the media to clarify his own position on this – if he told his supporters to vote Leave then leave would win, if he equivocates and remains silent to try to appease his own MPs then Leave is likely to lose.

    • DaveM
      Posted February 9, 2016 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

      I think you are right to an extent in that Labour voters might well decide it. And fortunately, in recent elections (ie the last 5 years) they have overwhelmingly voted for UKIP. As someone else has said, this is not an election, therefore the Labour loyalty votes don’t have the relevance they would have in a GE.

  31. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Post EU and EU control of our borders,- the UK could reintroduce visas where particularly applicable. Airlines could be made aware tickets to the UK should not be sold without a valid passport and visa. This could be wedded to their landing rights at our airports and airport taxes they should pay. Also asylum seekers who do land could be processed off the UK mainland without further permission to gain entry to the mainland until their application is successfully processed. This could help with security issues of ISIL infiltrators. Under international law we are allowed such measures if otherwise not.
    The Scottish Government always preaching of their Joy of Immigrants have stuck their first Syrian refugees on an island.Brag about it. So we can count on SNP support. ..Well maybe not.

  32. Phil_Richmond
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood – I look at the positions being taken by Cameron and David Davis and then I think back to 2005 when I was an enthusiastic Conservative Party member. I voted for Cameron!! How could I have been so foolish and naive?!?!?
    Fast forward to the present day and thanks to Cameron I am no longer a part member but feel enormous guilt for my role in allowing this lying charlatan quisling to become leader.
    What upsets me though is that it seems very few in the Conservative Party are prepared to stand up to him let alone remove him?!

  33. a-tracy
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    If the French want to argy bargy around at Calais then no one enters the tunnel until they’ve been checked properly and anyone found at the other end without their paperwork/passports/right to enter gets put on the next train back as France didn’t police their side of the operation properly and we won’t be in the EU and can have our own rules! We then need to put some of the EU money we will be saving into a proper border force with a set of teeth.

  34. Margaret
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Why should France want to opt out of the agreement .The French borders are suffering as we . They want rid of more trouble and are lax in their controls to the UK. We should never have built the channel tunnel. This would be so in or out.
    It is a waste of energy to blame DC, for it is a referendum which will decide whether or not to Brexit

  35. Maureen Tuner
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    It’s a funny old world alright when this PM of ours paints himself into a corner of such uselessness he is prepared to admit he wouldn’t be able to control our borders if we left the EU and we “could” have a Calais style jungle in Kent. Note the word could. From what I’ve read a rep. of the French government has said a decided No to this “could”. It’s a NON.

    If this obfuscation between fact and fiction is intended to strike fear into our hearts it will almost certainly have the opposite effect but what it does do is highlight his own self doubt in his ability to govern. If an island such as ours with some of the best forces on the planet could not deter 5,000 unarmed migrants from creating another “jungle” in Kent then we would be in very deep trouble and so should the man at the top.

  36. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    The Leave Campaign should by now have formed a professional group of Media Watchers.

    The normal coverage by UK TV news companies does have a bias at times. Not necessarily along lines one might expect. Even in the US Primaries, they have a preference for certain candidates and a definite down on others. They are pretty balanced in speech as to Clinton and Saunders though Clinton is featured as newsworthy far more. But on the Republican side, they hardly or never feature some runners. Why they should deliberately as do Labour politicians at the highest level mis-quote Trump when his rallies are online to see via US TV is a wonderment. But they do regularly.

    But in the UK, our news media is biased rather by incompetence than by design. If one carefully listens to news reportages they quite regularly violate the Who, What, Where, When, Why, How jounalistic mantra. It’s an error, THEY know, but they miss the obvious. Sometimes they go on repeating the same mistake for half a day and miss out, believe it or not, WHO they are talking about exactly. A new case in point, lasting two days, is with a certain donor in the Health Care Field. They have not mentioned whether the donor is male or female, young or old, particularly how the person heard about a problem, in which hemisphere the donor lives, in which country, in which county, in which city and when the donor will provide the required something, how, where, why. Or name, or photo. Nor that the reason may be because or not due to confidentiality requested by who. exactly. ( All TV companies )
    One can expect the same with the run-up to the Referendum. A Leave Team to TV-watch is required. Could be TV incompetence will be as with their reportages on Mr Trump.Whoops!

  37. MPC
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    The scaremongering about Calais is just another aspect of ‘Project Fear’ and shows how bereft of positive messages the Remainers are. It’s an encouragement for us to be optimistic if they are reduced to that.

    I’d like to see the Leave side start playing this game a bit though, by alerting people to the dangers of staying in the EU in a calm and rational way which would contrast with the remainers’ desperate approach. Two possible areas would be – the implications of the 5 Presidents’ Report and how it will be increasingly difficult if we remain in to keep away from its creeping effects, including likely (disguised) financial contributions through ever increasing UK annual membership fees. Secondly, the fact that we are going to need a whole new approach to the financing of public services with ever increasing EU inward migration implied by continuing EU membership. I personally can’t see how an NHS free at the point of delivery for all can continue much longer. How can George Osborne’s self imposed annual financial surplus rule cater for these pressures in the future?

  38. Phil
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    John, I am a C party member and am so disappointed with DC’s disingenuity and overtly simple scare tactics. My wife and I feel belittled by DC’s approach. We are not children. The votes are with the people and they will remember those(ministers and MP’s)who betray their own views for personal advantage. Loyalty combined with truth to self counts high on my motivational list. This issue will define the level of my future support. I am not alone in this; it is the tone of the debate from greengrocer’s shop to community groups in a Northern conservatively inclined town.

  39. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Former dentists amongst STAY IN the EU Campaign are non-existent. Hairstylists and barbers perhaps.

    None of them have noticed the miraculous £2000 cosmetic dentistry of many of the Syrian refugees. Nothing strikes them as odd, slightly strange, inconsistent in some way. They, the MPs, lack normal reasonable judgement. This should be highlighted. These MPs should not be encouraged to engage with anyone outside their villages of origin, certainly not in something as huge and obviously for them absolutely imponderable as the EU

  40. Original Richard
    Posted February 9, 2016 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    The French want the Calais frontier system to continue and for the UK to continue to refuse access to migrants in the Calais jungle.

    They know that if they tear up the agreement (which I have read would take 2 years to be implemented after notification to end the agreement) then the 5000 migrants in Calais would quickly become 50, 000 or even 500,000.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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