The state of the Britain stronger in Europe campaign

I have spent all my energies setting out how we will be freer, more democratic and better off out of the EU. I want  a policy of prosperity, not austerity. I want us to take back control of our laws. I want us to spend our money on our priorities.

Today I want to do something the BSE people do all the time. I want to ask a few questions of my opponents in this referendum.

The  BSE campaign should be called the Better Stay in Europe or else campaign. They spend all their time portraying a bleak future for us should we dare to vote for freedom and independence. Their pessimism is usually based on assuming all our partners in Europe will single mindedly seek to do us down in ways which will damage themselves.Why do they want to stay in organisation with people they think are so unpleasant?

Apparently BSE have their doubts and problems.  A series of endorsements by powerful foreigners, large investment banks and multinational companies may be putting more people off than it is winning over. Why should British voters vote for a deal which suits Germany and the USA when it clearly doesn’t meet the Prmine Minister’s aims in his Bloomberg speech, when it does not get us our money back or give us control of our own borders and taxes? Many voters are unhappy about the self serving conduct of some large corporations, so they are not impressed by being told how to vote by them. Lord Rose of BSE let the cat out of the bag when he told us the higher wages he expects when we leave could be bad news!

Given their absence of positive messages it is easy to ridicule their style of bombast. Will EU exit lead to the Black Death being visited upon us? Will France and Germany refuse to ring us up if they hear of a threat to our country?  Will they want to stop selling us their cars and wine, and wrongly impose new trade barriers which are largely  illegal anyway under international law?

What new groups and companies will they get to sign letters of support? What new fears will they dream up? I would welcome your suggestions for more absurd claims than they have already made, though it is difficult to  outdo some of their wild forecasts.

We also need to remind people all the time that institutions like the CBI and some of the investment banks that are so keen on us staying in recommended the European exchange rate mechanism to us which caused a big inflation and a major recession. They then often went on to recommend the Euro, which has done enormous damage to many of the economies outside the German core of the zone. Why should we believe them again when their track record has been so lamentable?

Few of them seem to have read the 5 Presidents Report on future political union and the next treaty and none of them want to talk about it. As we know from the EUs own words they want more central powers, a Euro Treasury and a bigger EU budget, shouldn’t they tell us their view of all this. The EU is on a wild ride to political Union.

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117 Comments

  1. The Active Citizen
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    “And in the blue corner, the veteran champion John Redwood comes out full of energy and ready for the fight.”

    Splendid article, JR. Most of us know how much effort you’re putting into this campaign and we appreciate everything you’re doing. My wife and I wish you and your family a happy and relaxing Easter break.

    • Hope
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:22 am | Permalink

      Cameron’s tactic has always been avoidance of issues if they might be damaging. Hen e why he would not debate Farage, Salmond or Miliband. Why he ran out of parliament rather than be questioned over Turkey. Whe is your party going to take him to task for overwhelmingly failing to deliver any points from Bloomburgh speech or for falling to rule nothing out when he clearly had and has no intention? Why do you all persist to think he should remain in office? Party before country once more?

      The public needs right to recall to hold MPs to account. The sham by Cameron on this, EVEL, EU, economy, immigration is so depressing.

    • oldtimer
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      Quite right.

      The EU is a government of the bureaucrats, for the bureaucrats, by the bureaucrats. It is designed for use by the bureaucrats of the corporate world – first and foremost the EU corporate world whish is variously lobbied and served by bureaucrats from the other government organisations, NGOs and business corporations. Actual voters do not get a look in. That is what this referendum is really about. Voters vs the power and influence of corporations.

    • Bazman
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

      Are you el vicepresidente of this site John?
      http://www.facts4eu.org/news.htm

      Reply No, I am a VP of Conservatives for Britain and they have their own site

  2. The Active Citizen
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    JR, as it’s the weekend, might we have your permission to mention a new website engaged in the pro-UK pro-Brexit debate?

    Your readers frequently offer erudite and fact-based comments on what you write and the quality is well above that found on so many other sites out there. Some of your commenters (you know who you are!) research information and contribute in an interesting way to everyone’s understanding of the topics you raise.

    Well, the new website needs help from individuals who know how to research and who can summarise information well. We’re looking for people who could write very short pieces, and for editors. Alas, as a not-for-profit website, payment for these volunteers comes only in the form of a warm glow in knowing they’re performing a service for their country…. 🙂

    The new site is here: http://www.facts4eu.org .

    It’s now in ‘soft-launch’ phase, meaning that it’s being populated with more information on a daily basis, but the basic structure is now there. It even has a couple of pieces by kind permission of our host.

    I hope we may get a volunteer or two from your readership, JR, and I can confirm that the new site will certainly be carrying more of the excellent articles from your diary.

    • Chris S
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      I will certainly join you on facts4eu.org

      While JRD is probably the website I visit most these days, we are, to a great extent preaching to the converted. Our arguments are entirely valid and logical but both our host and ourselves have to find a way of getting to that huge swathe of people who are undecided.

      I do find that quite a few people ask how I intend to vote in the referendum and that normally starts a conversation. Interestingly, most who ask the question are themselves undecided.

      This week we are staying at a ski chalet in Austria and several other guests ( there are 16 of us in all ) have asked the question. It is of course, easy to become a bore on this subject so it’s essential to avoid talking about it too often but I’m quite sure that of the group of four people who had a 30 minute joint discussion about the referendum with me, at least two have moved into the Brexit camp as a result. The others are still somewhat undecided but are certainly not leaning towards Remain. All were keen to discuss the merits of the argument.

      One guest, a 50 year old graduate and regular watcher of Newsnight and other BBC Remain-sponsored programs, was largely unaware of the future direction and the rising net cost of staying within the EU. That may well have been enough to convince him to move towards the Brexit camp.

      There is everything to play for but we do have to overcome the natural tendency towards the status-quo. However, the score card might well be equalised by the fact that those most likely to vote for Brexit are themselves as a group more likely to actually bother to vote. It is almost certainly Remain that faces the bigger struggle to get their vote out on the day.

      I am convinced we can win but we have to find a way of getting the facts over to the undecided, despite the bias at the BBC and the lies and half truths continuously put out by CMD’s Project Fear.

    • Bazman
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 10:21 am | Permalink

      Where is the funding for this site coming from or who is funding it. We need to know whos interests it is serving and why? Secrecy is not acceptable and if it where a site promoting staying in the EU you would be asking the same.
      I have e-mailed this question to the editors and will give you all their reply or lack of it.

      Reply I pay for this site.

      • Jerry
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

        @JR reply; & @Bazman; Can we have some clarity please! What website was @Bazman talking about, the site that hosts ours and @Bazman’s comments (funded by Mr Redwood MP) OR was @Bazman asking about the website mentioned in the comment to which he was replying too?

        At first I read our hosts reply to mean he was funding both, I do not beleive that is correct though on second thoughts…

        reply I am just paying for this one

      • Anonymous
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

        Bazman – I can see how a site packed with well sourced research to justify Leave might have rattled you. Rather than challenge the facts contained therein you’ve resorted to accusations of scullduggery.

        On the one hand you accuse us of hysteria and being factless – and yet when the facts are presented to you you are still dissatisfied. Please make your mind up.

        Over the years there are many examples where regulars here have given you a warm and heartfelt welcome.

        Why the antipathy ?

        • Bazman
          Posted March 27, 2016 at 10:03 am | Permalink

          Packed with nonsense. You are seriously telling me that outside Europe UK workers will have the same rights? The red tape that the outers talk about is these rights. This is just one example of the dingbat site on par with the biased BBC site.

          • libertarian
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

            Bazman,

            As with all things employment you display your ignorance yet again, tell me which EU countries pay a living wage, indeed what do you think of the EU countries that dont even have a minimum wage yet?

            Then tell me why only the EU can pass laws that protect workers, then explain to me why Australia which ISN’T in the EU pays the highest minimum wage at $32k

            As you’ve been told and linked to many time the vast majority of EU redtape rules that effect the SME market place and diminish workers pay have nothing to do with workers rights

            Dingbats indeed

          • Jerry
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

            @Bazman; No, the workers rights you talk of are just some of the mountains of red-tape from the EU that those wanting a Brexit talk about, nor is anyone talking about repealing every last bit of EU legislation anyway [1] and remember that some of the most important of UK workers rights actually have their origin in legislation that pre-date our entry in to the EU.

            [1] for one thing the vast majority of Conservative MPs are not of the radical right you seem to think or as some who comment on our hosts site try to suggest – nor are the average voter on the political right

          • Anonymous
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

            Being members of the EU hasn’t prevented zero hours, outsourcing, factory closures, factory removal to other EU states, restrictions on fisheries, the importation of workers with the intent of depressing wages… I could go on.

            Being members of the EUhas brought us slavery and a sub-class of black market workers with no rights at all too, but you ignore it because it doesn’t suit your argument.

          • Jerry
            Posted March 28, 2016 at 8:48 am | Permalink

            @Anonymous; You seem to be blaming the EU for Globalisation!…

          • Bazman
            Posted March 28, 2016 at 10:40 am | Permalink

            The Tories are held back by Brussels employment rights laws and to think they will remain or somehow remain the same in a race to the bottom is for the birds.

          • libertarian
            Posted April 2, 2016 at 10:12 am | Permalink

            Calling Bazman

            “The Tories are held back by Brussels employment rights laws and to think they will remain or somehow remain the same in a race to the bottom is for the birds”

            1) So you are saying we will never have anything but a Tory government ever again ?

            2) Please explain the fabulous EU workers protection in view of the following

            UK now is the ONLY EU country with a legally enforced living wage

            UK now has a record number of people in employment 32 million

            Youth Unemployment:
            UK 13.6%
            Greece 48%
            Spain 45%
            Italy 39%
            Portugal 29%
            France 25%

            If i were you Bazman I’d change the birds you talk to.

    • Tom William
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

      The value of this site is its authority. Too many Brexit sites make ignorant or inaccurate claims and some are juvenile.

      When the respected Martin Vander Weyer of the Spectator can write “my straw polls say the “leave” campaign is failing to make a clear economic case we should be worried. He wrote that sovereignty issues and ad hominem attacks are failing to make the financial case upon which a great block of voters will base their choice.

      There is a generation, or two, for whom sovereignty and democracy are vitally important but, as in general elections, the hip pocket vote tends to be the decider.

      • Jerry
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

        @Tom William; Trouble about making a case (either BSE or Brexit) built upon “sovereignty” is that you can ask 1000 people what it means to them and you could very well get 1000 different answers -all of which are correct- because so much is down to personal perceptions, the four nations and localism, were some people might actually feel that they have more local “sovereignty” because of the EU’s policy of regionalism (the old Divide and conquer tactic).

        On the other hand, the effects of the EU’s influence on laws, regulation and especially economy’s and budgets are a specific science which can be more easily contested and argued.

        • Anonymous
          Posted March 27, 2016 at 12:58 am | Permalink

          Amorphism certainly helps the BSE’s argument, doesn’t it, Jerry.

          Neutralising the sovereignty element of the debate helps the BSE position far more than it does the Leave’s.

          Similarly we are often asked the passively aggressive “What do you mean ? Please explain what Englishness is.”

          A question that even two decades ago no-one in England ever dreamed they’d have to contemplate.

          The answers to the meaning of both Englishness and sovereignty are very simple. It is the mischevous and devious who try to make them complex.

          • Jerry
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 8:57 am | Permalink

            @Anonymous; “Englishness” is irrelevant unless what you are proposing is not a Brexit but an ENexit (from both the EU and UK)?!

            “It is the mischevous and devious who try to make them complex.”

            Quite the opposite, it is the mischievous and devious who try to make them overly simplistic, the issue is of greet complexity and with many hidden dangers – England is herself made up of ‘united Kingdoms’, just as (for example) Spain is…

            On the other hand we can all argue about the effect the EU has had on the Greek, Spanish, Irish and our own UK economies et al, how some innocent people have suffered due to the EAW, how the Schengen area has help in cross board crime etc.

          • Hope
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

            Jerry, that is why the professor from Oxford suggests that it is better to use the term democratic self government.

          • Jerry
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

            @Hope; OK, so when will my beloved Wessex have her own “democratic self government” sitting i8n Winchester again, and not have laws and taxes etc. imposed by that undemocratic ‘rabble’ who sit in Westminster?

            PS, I don’t really think Westminster is a rabble, although many do believe it to be undemocratic!

          • Anonymous
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

            Jerry @ 8.57

            I used the “What is English ?” example because no other national is asked a similar question.

            It is only ever asked of the Englishman when he says he wants his country’s borders and sovereignty to be re-established.

            If someone posed a similar question to a Scotsman or an Aussie with the same intent there is a good chance (if they pushed too hard) that they’d get punched on the nose – and I would have no sympathy for them.

            The Scot, the Aussie, the Welsh, the Irish … are all supported in their nationalism which is held very simply indeed, in fact.

            Only with the English are the waters muddied and complexities introduced by the Left, partly to loosen their percieved grip on Ireland, Wales and Scotland. There is only one Kingdom, headed by a single (token) Sovereign.

            The “what is sovereignty ?” question is a new one on me.

            Frankly I see it as a piss take.

    • yosarion
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

      Only looking at this website briefly I did not see a link to Facebook et all, if you wish to change the minds of the majority brain washed Yoof I would include these groups

      • hefner
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

        Assume that I am a Yoof (or more exactly I am not but have been recommending JR’s blog to younger members of my family), how do you think this style of remarks will play with them?

        Sometimes “better is the enemy of good”!

  3. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    The Remain Campaign is attempting to generate Hysteria Contagion.

    Large corporations and indeed Local Authorities leading up to pay negotiations regularly do this, threatening job security and never have to pay for the resultant stress and psychosomatic illnesses varying from a couple of days off work to longer periods. The reason: mainly they DO know what they do but are unaware of ongoing consequential trauma.

    “What new fears will they dream up? ” The simple one. The one which they have in fact instigated: “Fight or Flight” . ..If our people Remain in the EU they face terrorists amongst migrants coming over our borders waved on by politicians who should know better. If our people Leave the EU they will lose their jobs, fail to pay for their housing, lose their homes and of course their families. Therefore To Remain is to be attacked; to run Leave) is to be attacked. Fight or Flight Hysteria Contagion. See how the Leave campaign confuses everyone by saying how it is safer and more secure to STAY when everything on TV with thousands of surging migrants at hastily erected barbed wire fences says the opposite. Plus the odd airport and subway bomb.

    “I would welcome your suggestions for more absurd claims than they have already made..”
    OK. Their coup-de-grace lie will be that the NHS , especially maternity care and facilities for the over 60s will collapse if we leave the EU. Labour will use it as it is the only Christmas Cracker bead in their crown.

    • Jerry
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      @CH; Their coup-de-grace lie will be that the NHS”

      If the BSE groups campaign goes anywhere near the NHS it will be a sign that they have truly lost the plot, the biggest danger to the NHS (despite all the unprovable [1] claims otherwise) is the EU and TTIP.

      [1] due to the undue secrecy surrounding the proposed documents

      • CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

        BSE isn’t Bovine spongiform encephalopath. in this case. Well, it’s all alot to chew over for Joe Public. For the undecided this debate on the Referendum hasn’t really started. Mr Corbyn’s and Ms Sturgeon’s desire to have “many more” refugees and migrants is something they are very quiet about right now. The boom boom boom of bombs bombing Brussels blocks out their enept twittering.

        • Jerry
          Posted March 27, 2016 at 6:23 am | Permalink

          @CH; Oh dear, and you were doing so well until you had to bring migrants and refugees into it, I’m sure that so0me will not be hearing the Brexit case due to the “boom boom of [first western and now Russian] bombs” in Iraq, Libya and Syria etc…

          • CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 8:14 am | Permalink

            Jerry;
            I …haven’t brought ” migrants and refugees into it.”.They have come into the EU by boat, plane, in the backs of trucks. hidden on trains and on foot.

          • Jerry
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 9:01 am | Permalink

            @CH; That is the effect, what about the (current) cause?…

    • Bazman
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 10:24 am | Permalink

      Hysteria Contagion? Laughable coming from the outers who have been tellling us about straight bananas and English tea being banned in England. I made the tea bit up as the right have been doing for years.

      • CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

        You can’t get your head chopped off with a straight banana.

        • stred
          Posted March 29, 2016 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

          Unless it’s going at + 1o00 mph.

      • Anonymous
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

        Bazman – The immigration crisis cannot be exaggerated. The warnings of the ‘hysterical’ Right have been proven utterly correct and this issue is the trigger for the referendum.

        EC Commission regulation 2257/94 did regulate bananas and was amended because it was too restrictive.

        Any hysteria is nothing compared to shrill cries of the Left that the British are racist. Prove entirely incorrect by the destruction of the BNP and the election of only one UKIP MP.

        • hefner
          Posted March 27, 2016 at 8:18 am | Permalink

          Anonymous, under a PR system, the 2015 elections would have been:
          Conservatives 244.
          Labour 201.
          UKIP 83.
          LibDem 52.
          SNP 30.
          Green 25.
          Others 15
          V.Bogdanor, 2015, in “Blueprint for Britain”.

          To me, it is not as simple as a Right-Left, ie Con/Lab problem. It is a problem of democracy. Is the UK still really a representative democracy?
          Given the present “little problems” within both the Conservatives and Labour about the EU, I am really looking forward to the result of the referendum (whatever the result) and would expect some realignment within the main parties.
          Otherwise, the “mainstream politicians”, obviously their mouths full of sovereignty/freedom/democracy, will simply have gone on doing what they are so good at: just talking big words without much changing/adapting the relationship between Parliament and voters.

          • Anonymous
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 8:40 am | Permalink

            This still supports my argument that the Left are, in fact, the hysterical ones. Look at how they riot when they don’t get what they want and the latest on colonialist statues.

            Compare with the model behaviour of UKIP voters denied their 82 MPs.

            The problems we have now are largely because the Bazmans have had their way for too long. I don’t know why he’s so agitated about things. Scared that he’s losing his grip, maybe ?

          • Jerry
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 9:19 am | Permalink

            @hefner; Interesting PR figures you cite, the political flavour of the government would have hung on who the “Other 15” were, and even if equally divided, with those 83 seats going to UKIP any right wing Tory lead coalition would be in danger should UKIP not get its way and walk-out but also be in danger of loosing their parliamentary majority from those on the left of centre-right within the government if UKIP did get what they want!

            It is quite astounding how UKIP keep misleading their supporters to think that PR is the route to power, even more so when second preference votes come into play, I doubt that UKIP would actually have ended up with those 83 seats as ‘light-blue’ Tories cast their second preferences towards LD or what many now call ‘blue-Tory’ (ex Blairite) candidates. Thus PR for UKIP would more likely be even more the road to irrelevance…

          • Jerry
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

            @Jerry; Sorry, that should have read ‘blue-Labour’ (ex Blairite) candidates.

          • Anonymous
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

            Jerry @19.19 – The UKIP mission is accomplished. A referendum.

            If the result is Out so much the better.

            Most of us don’t want UKIP. We want a conservative Conservative party.

          • Jerry
            Posted March 28, 2016 at 9:03 am | Permalink

            @Anonymous; “the Left are, in fact, the hysterical ones. Look at how they riot when they don’t get what they want”

            The EDL are “left-wing”?!

            Also, with rearguards the referendum, UKIP achieved nothing, how could they with no more than two votes in the HoC’s in the last parliament. Stop trying to gild a non-existent UKIP lilly…

          • stred
            Posted March 29, 2016 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

            Hef. Agree 100%.

      • Edward2
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

        The bananas story you refer to is no hysteria
        It’s a fact.
        There is legislation about sale of bananas into the EU
        And it defines the amount of curve allowed.

        • Anonymous
          Posted March 27, 2016 at 8:33 am | Permalink

          The outcry from the press caused the regulation to be eased. In this the EU argues its reasonableness on the issue. Those against argue the over excessive regulation that comes from the EU.

          • Edward2
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

            Sorry I’ve got confused with the EU cucumber curve regulations.

      • Pud
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

        So what was EC Commission Regulation No 2257/94?
        Over the years I’ve read comments from EU-philes like yourself who pretend there was never a rule about how bent bananas are and others who claim the EU is reasonable because they changed the rule – at least one can’t be true.

        • Bazman
          Posted March 27, 2016 at 10:14 am | Permalink

          Here the real answer and further investigation using Google easily confirms this to be the truth.
          http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6481969.stm
          As I keep pointing out to all of you on this site investigation of lies and wilful ignorance is now very easy in the days of the internet, but glib self serving nonsense is what you want to believe.
          Would you like to see some sort of restrictions on the internet to prevent this? Might happen under the lie of anti terrorism. laws as we have seen the government is already stopping the use of on-line voting for union ballots as they know the turnout may be to high and undermine this attempted restriction of workers rights.

      • libertarian
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

        Bazman

        I am so so pleased that you are a remainer.

        You have been on the losing side in EVERY issue you’ve posted on so I’m heartened by your support for remain, who’d a thought Bazman’s a Cameroon

        • Bazman
          Posted March 27, 2016 at 10:22 am | Permalink

          All of your arguments like few other on here are based on a race to the bottom a bottom that is just silt I may add.
          You can only be poor if you are reading the bible by candlelight eating charity bread. If you have your own bread you are not poor and if it has butter then that means you own wealth. You can only be disabled if you are in a persistent vegetative state. If you can move your eyes you are not. Workers have the right to resign, but not if they are doctors. The list is endless as it is ignorant and stupid.
          The problem for you though is that facts and information is now easily accessible.

          • Anonymous
            Posted March 27, 2016 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

            Who’s being hysterical ?

    • bigneil
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 10:47 am | Permalink

      “The NHS will collapse” – – Seems it never gets mentioned from their side that over half a million people a year are arriving here, who have not paid a penny in, but are instantly ok to walk into any doctors and hospital for unlimited expensive treatment. Surely someone in the NHS realises that no business can only charge an ever smaller percentage of the population ( our taxpayers) yet tell anyone who arrives all their costs ( add benefits, schooling and housing too) are “on us”.

  4. Lifelogic
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    Indeed BSE campaign is all about project fear and total pessimism. If you divorce the EU they will beat you up even more seem to be their line. It is not really a very good argument for staying in a marriage.

    Perhaps that is why they chose the initials for Mad Cow Disease or BSE. The dangers of that were massively exaggerated by the UK government and EU too. Deaths from vCJD seem to be about 177 rather, than the millions that were predicted by the “experts”.

    The EU is all about drawing power and money to the anti-democratic centre in the EU capital of Brussels. All done in a non returnable, ratchet like manner, slowly strangling the UK to death. It is the very opposite of the “subsidiarity” that John Major promised us when this appalling man signed the UK up to Maastricht.

    All done without any consent from people. Not even an apology from the man for the huge damage done by his ERM fiasco even now. Yet the BBC still wheel him out as if he were some great font of wisdom. Never do they seem to ask him about his appalling past record.

    Good to have Sir Rocco Forte on side.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4673500.ece

    Perhaps his is well aware of the economic and political mess in Italy, due in large part to the absurd EURO project. I tend to think it is our duty to leave to show others the way to go. The EU is not just disliked in the UK.

  5. Mike Stallard
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood, you encourage me a lot!
    “Few of them seem to have read the 5 Presidents Report on future political union and the next treaty and none of them want to talk about it.”

    Exactly.
    We are faced with two realistic possibilities:
    REMAIN and face a Europe dominated by a Eurobloc where we are constantly outvoted and ordered around anywhere we pay more and more money into a greedy organisation which is run by fewer and fewer people who are not accountable to us in any way. We have our taxes harmonised, we have more and more gold plated Directives from international standards organisations in which we have no say at all, and we have a really dangerous foreign policy which arches out into Russia and excludes us more and more from trading outside Europe. Then there is immigration from Turkey to consider.
    LEAVE: We nail down our EEA membership, we join EFTA, we negotiate hard for independence. It will take at least two years to do this, so during that time trade with Europe will continue uninterrupted. The idea that we will not have a seat at the top table is laughable: we will be negotiation our withdrawal for heaven’s sake! The Top Table will be negotiating with us!

    PS It is the EU that has offered us (Spinelli) Associate membership. They realise we don’t fit their scheme.

    • Timaction
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:59 am | Permalink

      They have read and contributed to the 5 Presidents report. Bunch of lying quislings ….. one and all. I’m fed up of pretending they are not etc ed . Agents of the EU. Nothing more.

  6. Mark B
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    Whilst we have, quite rightly, heard the case for the UK from leaving the EU, we should also be making the case for the EU to leave us. Namely, it will allow them to move to a full federal EU which will allow bank transfers and the printing of money. This would allow the likes of Greece and others to be properly financed and their economies restored. It would also create economic growth and, allow many of her citizens to return ack to their own countries so relieveing pressure on the UK.

    Win-win

    • Jerry
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      @Mark B; What a ‘wonderful’ campaigning line, in effect what you said is; The UK should leave the EU because it is/has single handedly held back the other 27 member countries (economies)!…

      • Mark B
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

        Jerry

        It would be holding things back because they are moving to a FULL Federal Europe. The UK cannot go and so would require special opt-outs and clauses in a new treaty, which could take some time. Better that we just go and make things simple, eh ?

        • Jerry
          Posted March 27, 2016 at 6:38 am | Permalink

          @Mark B; Wrong, the UK could go with a USoE but some (the vote in May will tell us the numbers) wish not to, the last Labour majority government certainly moved us closer with ratification of the Lisbon Treaty and if the BSE group win a majority come May that will be another step towards the UK becoming part of a Federal Europe (if not a full member state then perhaps in a way similar to the relationship between Puerto Rico and the USA).

          Not my wish, nor most on this site wish either I suspect, but there is no “cannot” about it, life will carry on in or out of the EU and the eventual USoE.

    • agricola
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:50 am | Permalink

      Idealistic, but sadly the EU is not well placed to carry the people of the member states with it, due to the democratic deficit. You could argue that, with the exception of Greece, democracy is a very young plant in Europe, and the people, not having experienced it, will go along with whatever the EU gives them.

      The Euro is the tool by which the EU can enforce this federal integration, but I suspect it will fall apart well short of this goal. The evidence for this is becoming widely apparent.

    • Antisthenes
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:51 am | Permalink

      I suspect the EU would like to see the back of us as we are such a thorn in their side with our carping and obstinate refusal to join in their fun and games properly. On the flip side of course they do like to have our enormous contribution and to be able to milk our economy and society in other ways. They no doubt believe that in the end they can tame us and bring us into line in time, under the right circumstances and when a compliant and enthusiastic for all things EU government is in place. Beware if we remain in all that will come to pass.

      • turbo terrier
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

        Antisthenes

        They no doubt believe that in the end they can tame us and bring us into line

        They sure as hell will if Dave has anything to do it.

      • Mark B
        Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

        They (EU) have certain sections of the Political-Class and the Establishment in their thral. It’s just that they cannot convince us all to go along with it.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:07 am | Permalink

      Well, that was part of Cameron’s Bloomberg speech, which bears re-reading:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9820230/David-Camerons-EU-speech-in-full.html

      “The European Treaty commits the Member States to “lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe” … ”

      “… We understand and respect the right of others to maintain their commitment to this goal. But for Britain – and perhaps for others – it is not the objective. And we would be much more comfortable if the Treaty specifically said so freeing those who want to go further, faster, to do so, without being held back by the others.”

      However it is notable that the “perhaps for others” part has not materialised; all the other EU national governments have had ample opportunity to say “If Britain is getting an exemption from “ever closer union”, then we would like it as well”, but not a single one has done that, not even the Dutch government who had previously seemed to be sympathetic to the idea.

      It’s not as though the UK has been holding back the eurozone states from further federalisation; on the contrary Osborne has publicly urged them to get on with it, and in the autumn of 2010 Cameron simply gave Merkel an EU treaty change she was demanding to provide a legal base for the European Stability Mechanism; the problem for the UK would be how to stay in the EU without 27 plus other countries all still intent on “ever closer union” and with all but one legally obliged to join an increasingly federalised eurozone, and also the Schengen area, without being swept along with that tide whether the UK government liked it or not.

    • stred
      Posted March 27, 2016 at 5:13 am | Permalink

      With the emphasis on more of their money and not ours going to prop up the southern and eastern disaster areas, including possibly Turkey, Ukraine and some ‘stans. With pictures of co- chairs of Spinneli, Daniel Cohn- Bendit and Guy Louise Verhovstadt + wiki links, and a brief summary of the 5 presidents aims.

      c/c to Active

    • APL
      Posted March 27, 2016 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

      Mark B: “Namely, it will allow them to move to a full federal EU which will allow bank transfers and the printing of money ”

      Then we’ve done them a favour. If anyone still thinks that ‘printing money’ is anything other than an economic disaster dressed up as a sticking plaster, then you/they are sadly deluded.

  7. Matt
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    If we leave the EU, the following will occur (not in order):
    World war 3 will start within 24 hours
    The seas will boil.
    The skies will fall
    The dead will rise from the grave
    Cats and dogs will start living together

    • Bazman
      Posted March 27, 2016 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

      Pretty much the argument in the Daily Mail and The Sun for leaving the EU for the last 20 years or more. Interesting to see how all these tabloid reading ex-pats will vote when they will be on the sharp end of the result as they well know. Returning to the UK is not an option for most and few are in any way integrated into their countries living in British ghettos in the main.
      The TV comedy ‘Benidorm’ is not a documentary.

  8. Antisthenes
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    Every scare storey emanating from the stayers can be countered by an equally scary one from the leavers on the same point. The main theme of the stayers appears to be we will be more secure and prosperous by remaining in and would be denied access to the common market and all cooperation with the EU in all it’s various forms would cease. Of course that is all complete nonsense. Nobody wants to cut their nose off to spite their face.

    Certainly if we leave the EU will want to play hard ball but even the (people ed)running the EU are not that stupid that at the end of the day they will not agree a deal that is in the UK’s interest as much as their own. As for security well that is laughable we see what open borders and EU imperialism has done for that. At logger heads with Russia over Ukraine and millions of immigrants pouring into Europe intent on bringing in their often unsavoury ways with them. Putting enormous pressure on our infrastructures and institutions. Our security forces must be at their wits ends trying to cope with the gropers, thieves and jihadists.

    Prosperity is also a joke ask anyone other than Germany what has the EU and the euro done for them. Not a lot I am sure they will say especially their unemployed. Ok it does do good for some of the poorer countries at the expense of richer ones. Some of them like Greece it has crippled. As for the UK what economic benefit does it bring for her that could not be done probably better outside of the EU. Nothing of course but it would do wonders for our balance of payments and budget deficit if we leave.

    Then of course of course there is the question of sovereignty and self determination have we not gone through hell and high water to achieve the freedoms we have today. So why do we wish to give those freedoms away to a remote foreign government now. It defies logic and reason. Apart from which we are waking up to the fact that political and government decision making works much better when it can be made locally and not centrally. The EU stands for all that is opposite to that concept as it wishes to have all the power to be centralised and decision making to be it’s prerogative.

    How can the stayers justify any of their reasons for remaining in? They cannot of course so must be self-deluded and so are attempting to delude us into accepting their delusions. They do not have one argument that cannot be countered by a better one. Yet we see Boris and others floundering away trying to do just that but doing so badly because they have not bothered to get to grips with the subject matter. We will not win because one lie trumps many truths if told often enough and if the truth is not competently explained.

  9. eeyore
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    The Remain argument I particularly enjoy is the one that says the EU will fall to bits without Britain, and it is our duty to hang on in there and save them from themselves.

    Sir Alan Duncan KCMG MP made this pitch with powerful eloquence earlier this week when explaining why he’d changed his mind from Leave to Remain.

    Oddly enough, yesterday I bought a car. It was in poor condition and I didn’t really need it, but the salesman begged, “Please pay top whack for this fine motor or I’ll go bankrupt.” Bearing in mind Sir Alan’s wise words, of course I got my wallet out immediately. I may have bought a rubbish car at a high price, but I had the warm glow of personal self-sacrifice that comes from helping a fellow human being in distress. What the salesman thought of me, however, as he smilingly trousered my cheque, I really couldn’t say.

  10. alan jutson
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Such is the power of the EU politicians, they will seek to harness the bug that is known as Climate Change (hot air from Brussels)
    They will blow it North with line of giant fans (windmills in reverse) using their exceptionally cheap energy, thus exporting Climate Change to the UK if we vote to leave.
    We will then suffer possible crop failure through drought, the roads may melt, the rail lines may buckle, leaving us totally impotent and vulnerable.
    We will then need to purchase all of our drinking water and food from the EU at exceptionally high prices to survive, meaning they will flourish whilst we simply try to just survive.

  11. DaveM
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    They’ll probably tell us that if we vote Leave our football teams will be kicked out of the Champions League and the Euro Champs. And that Cricket will be abolished. They might also tell us that anyone visiting Europe will be spat on and refused service in shops, bars, and restaurants.

    You say the BSE is engaged in Project Fear, but from where I’m sitting the project is being instigated by the PM and his stooges – BSE has been fairly quiet. Although how he finds time to do it in between taking holidays, chairing the COBRA committee, and hanging out with his mates in Brussels is a mystery.

  12. Jerry
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    “Why do [the BSE group] want to stay in organisation with people they think are so unpleasant?

    Because they are weak? After all it is easier to be ‘friends’ with the school yard bullies, even do some of their bidding perhaps, than stand up to them.

    “Lord Rose of BSE let the cat out if the bag when he told us the higher wages he expects when we leave could be bad news!”

    Well if we as a collective nation think we can pay ourselves more than the going rate for the job he does have a point. In any economy that has been globalised why do some -in the Brexit camp or otherwise- think we can now buck the market, people like Lord Rose knows that businesses will simply shift production of their ‘widgets’ to a cheaper centre of manufacturing and away from the UK. As you suggest, just like the EU, a post Brexit UK will not “impose new trade barriers which are largely illegal anyway under international law.”

    CfB need to play to their strengths, not against the core anti wage inflation message the Tory party has been sending out since around 1975…

    “I would welcome your suggestions for more absurd claims than they have already made, though it is difficult to outdo some of their wild forecasts.”

    I’m surprised you need to ask here, I would have thought the tea rooms of Westminster would be more productive, after all were did your own parties Energy Secretary get ludicrous idea that energy bills could rise £500m per year should there be a Brexit [1], even the most confirmed Europhile must have coughed into their coffee on Thursday morning!

    [1] as reported by the BBC, as ‘supported’ by Sky News, as ignored by Ch4 News

  13. Cheshire Girl
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    I see that this morning it is reported that 250 Business Leaders are backing Brexit. That wont go down too well with the ‘Remain’ campaign, but I expect they will redouble their efforts to convince us to stay in.

  14. agricola
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    A few stay in advocates will be true believers, as were the founding fathers with good reason. Sadly their beliefs have become so warped by the current reality of the EU that their ideal no longer has substance. A few will be minor beneficiaries or dependants, pensioned off members of the commission who still litter our political life. Then there are the Trade Union crusaders who like the worker benefits they feel they have gained, but who now must be questioning the effect of mass immigration on wages.

    I suggest that the vociferous stay in politicos, such as CMD, are the 2nd lieutenants, tasked with urging the masses out of the trenches. They are being used.

    The World is currently run for the benefit of multi-nationals, bankers, and None Doms whose wealth can be multiplied without the restraints suffered by the little people. They even get bailed out when they screw up big time. Many in this category have turnovers and incomes in excess of many members of the United Nations. They incorporate where it suits them, and by sheer size dictate how the World communicates with itself, lifting and supressing information to suit their own ends. The people of this World are the pawns in their game, a much more sophisticated one than George Orwell envisaged.

    EU exit will be a setback for those in the above paragraph, but they will not go away. As Lord Rose so succinctly put it, it will jeopardise the creation of greater wealth for the above by increasing the wages of the worker bees. One of the challenges post Brexit will be to get these vested interests back under control.

    You hear this from someone who has essentially been a capitalist, conservative believer all his life. I suggest that those of us well down the food chain wake up to what Britain Stay in Europe is really about.

  15. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Most Remainers qualify their enthusiasm for EU membership by use of the term “reformed EU”. They never explain what that reform is; what they would like; when it will happen. It can therefore be assumed that they are not seriously looking for reform but merely offering a palliative to those who may be undecided. We are even told that, despite the recent agreement with Turkey, that country will never join the EU in our lifetimes. What does that tell us about the bona fides of the EU and those who are determined to keep us imprisoned within it?

    • turbo terrier
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

      Brian

      “reformed EU”

      It is not going to happen, you have more chance of walking on water.

      That is why we will never get a proper explanation.

  16. John Bracewell
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    I have it on good authority that, should the UK vote to Remain in the EU, Mr Jean Claude Juncker is personally going to knock on every door in the UK and hand over a ‘Thank You’ envelope containing 200 Euros. This gift is going to be financed by increasing the UK’s membership fee to the EU and thus is a gift from the EU not the UK getting its own money back. This is due to his new found best friendship with Mr Cameron who has ditched his opposition to the lovely Swiss tax policy maker whom he thinks will do the best for the new EU states of Scotland, Wales, N Ireland and England once the Euroland country has been set up.

  17. Graham Wood
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    The main problem as I see it with BSE is that they are in permanent ‘transit mode’.
    They are not interested in other views or willing to engage with the many substantial arguments which you, (JR) and many others are making to leave the EU.

    They don’t even have a FAQs facility on their website which perhaps explains their own inadequacy to face and answer the opposition. BSE, unlike its dangerous animal counterpart, is an infectious disease which IMO need not be taken too seriously, for it really has nothing weighty or compelling to say
    One can only cry “Wolf, wolf” for so long.!

    • Jerry
      Posted March 27, 2016 at 9:44 am | Permalink

      @Graham Wood; “[BSE] don’t even have a FAQs facility on their website which perhaps explains their own inadequacy to face and answer the opposition.”

      You obviously said that without bothering to check their site first! They do have a FAQ (under the main headline picture in the centre, between “News” and “Get the Facts”, it’s even called “FAQs”…) with six subsections – we might not like their chosen question nor given answers but to accuse them of not having something on their website that is actually present, then being rude to them on top, does the Brexit side no favours at all.

      “One can only cry “Wolf, wolf” for so long.!”

      Indeed, and Europhiles quite frequently say that of the ‘facts-less’ element amongst europhobes…

  18. hefner
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Off topic: on ConservativeHome, Daniel Hannan has a great take on Donald Trump.

    • hefner
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

      And in the FT Week-end “A bad case of midlife crisis lurks behind Tory infighting”, by Andrew Gimson, and “Poll trends indicate political risk for markets” by JR.

  19. Iain Moore
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    The BSE campaign reached a new level of hysteria this week, not content with manufacturing some scare stories, they attempted to scare people on issues that were a direct result of EU policies, Amber Rudd on expensive energy, and Alan Duncan in the Telegraph claiming that leaving would worsen the economic blight visited on Greece, Italy and Spain.

    On the other side of the argument, I liked Tim Martin ( Weatherspoons ) argument for leaving , who neatly tied together the argument that democracy went hand in had with prosperity.

  20. Denis Cooper
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    “Their pessimism is usually based on assuming all our partners in Europe will single mindedly seek to do us down in ways which will damage themselves.Why do they want to stay in organisation with people they think are so unpleasant?”

    It’s quite extraordinary that those who want us to stay in the EU have been building their case on the premise that our “European partners” are not just “unpleasant”, and they are not just “stupid” and “spiteful”, they are also “untrustworthy”.

    Because not only has every EU member state solemnly committed itself to Article 50 TEU as a procedure for the negotiation of new treaty arrangements for any one of their number who decides to leave, they have also pledged themselves to the promotion of “free and fair trade” (Article 3 TEU), and to “the progressive abolition of restrictions on international trade” (Article 21 TEU), and very specifically in Article 8 TEU:

    “The Union shall develop a special relationship with neighbouring countries, aiming to establish an area of prosperity and good neighbourliness, founded on the values of the Union and characterised by close and peaceful relations based on cooperation.”

    It’s understandable that some of those of who want to leave the EU have a low opinion of the other member states, rather than just the organisation with its inherently defective structure, but the Remainders have gone even further in the “xenophobic” attitudes built into most of their arguments for staying in the EU.

  21. Shieldsman
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Who are these people running the BSE campaign?
    Richard Reed, Karren Brady, Stuart Rose, Roland Rudd, Brendan Barber, Caroline Lucas and June Sarpong
    Do they inspire the public with any confidence that they really know anything about the EU. Cameron said it is not working and that is still the case.
    The Spectator printed – Their data is dodgy, they disregard the facts and their leaders are lazy.
    Remain campaigners Stuart Rose and Will Straw were hauled in front of the Treasury Select Committee today. The Britain Stronger In chairman received quite the lashing from committee chair Andrew Tyrie, who accused Rose of “intellectual dishonesty” and a “scandalous misuse of data”, in reference to BSE’s discredited claim that EU membership is worth £3,000 to every household in this country.
    West Ham United vice chairman Karren Brady has written to professional teams warning that “cutting ourselves off from Europe would have devastating consequences” for both the economy and the competitiveness of British football. She said two-thirds of players from EU countries playing in England might not meet the criteria enabling them to get a work visa and could therefore be forced to leave.

    These people are both ignorant and naive, they are unaware of the United Kingdoms excellent relationship with Europe prior to the creation of the bureaucratic EUSSR.

    They have no idea where the EU is heading, perhaps its that other world that David Cameron thinks he has divorced himself from, the nineteen eurozone members maybe. The wild ride to political Union.
    Plans are going before the European Parliament to advance integration within the Lisbon Treaty and using QMV
    2014/2249(INI) Committee on Constitutional Affairs – on improving the functioning of the European Union building on the potential of the Lisbon Treaty.
    How our terms of membership will change if we stay in. Read it.

    • chris S
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

      I took your advice and read it. These first three sentences are truly scary for the UK, particularly C : which is clearly aimed at us.

      B. whereas the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty have not yet been exploited to their full potential; whereas some proposals can only be fully realised by Treaty change, emphasising a two-step approach to EU reform (within and beyond the Treaties);

      C. whereas the Community method must be preserved and not be undermined by intergovernmental solutions, not even in areas where not all Member States fulfil the conditions for participation;

      D. whereas the European Parliament is the parliament of the whole Union and plays an essential role in ensuring the legitimacy and accountability of EU decisions;

  22. Bazman
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    We will be freer, more democratic and better off out of the EU. I want a policy of prosperity, not austerity. I want us to take back control of our laws. I want us to spend our money on our priorities.
    You should explain who ‘we’ are and what are. ‘our’ priorities John as for the past five years they it is not the average person that has seen any advantage from Tory policy.
    IHT cuts helping middle Britain. Middle Britain earns about 20k a year and does not pay IHT. Cuts to the NHS, in and out of work benefits, attacks on workers rights, doctors hours/pay, the City being allowed to gamble everyone house except their own. More tax cuts for the better off. Sell off of social housing to be replaced with unaffordable starter homes built on the cheap. The crime sheet gets ever longer.
    This idea that the average person will be better off out of the EU with a unopposed Tory government is for the birds. As we see on this site many of the posters have blind right wing religious beliefs in socialism for the rich and that is what the real priorities of a None EU Tory party. its funny how all these companies and people that put their names forward to the Telegraph to vote Tory are now so wrong on Europe. Where they wrong on voting Tory?

  23. Know-dice
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Reading through the BSE leaflet, it’s just wrong in so many places.

    Sir Hugh Orde says “Being in Europe makes the UK safer. It gives us access to the European Arrest Warrant…”. I think he is confused on two counts, we are not talking about leaving Europe, we are voting on the leaving the EU. The EAW isn’t exactly helping France get a terrorist suspect from Belgium any time soon.

    “Good for Families, with lower prices in our shops” – Wrong

    “Good for Workers, with over 3 million UK jobs linked to our exports” – Disingenuous, what about the jobs in the EU linked to exports to the UK

    “Good for small businesses” – How does that work, extra paper work is great for SMEs – Wrong

    “Good for young people, giving them freedom to live, travel study and work abroad” – Is that really NOT going to happen after Brexit? – I don’t think so, could stop EU students studying here on the cheap though…

    “Good for women” – The UK could/would have introduced equal rights for women without the EU, and maybe better targeted for UK women.

    “Good for pensioners” – How does that work then?

    “For every £1 we put into the EU we get almost £10 back” – In your dreams…

  24. Margaret
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    After a few exhausting days I was too tired to sleep this am nor could I get out of bed. I watched an old black and white war film on BBC2. I don’t in any way wish to celebrate war, however the nostalgia was compelling. There was that British spirit of loyalty to ones colleagues and friends, there was that spoken honesty even about dishonesty and there was that picture of the home and loving things which made GB special. My late mother would have called it corny, my dad would have been reluctant to speak about it. If they saw what is happening now they too would have been looking back at these old films with fond memories.

    • alan jutson
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

      Margaret

      Many of us would still look back with some nostalgia at films of past years, bit like we do for some TV series.

      Life was perhaps much harder then for many, but rather more simple and less complex in very many ways

      Afraid the whole DNA and Character of the Countries citizens has now changed, and not for the good in many people’s opinion.

  25. Bert Young
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Whenever I read or hear any report that advocates “remain” , I am immediately incensed and seek to respond with both economic facts and the loss of sovereignty issues . The campaign has become “boring” and lacklustre . I regret very much that the “Brexits” seem unable to get their act together and produce that inspired punch . Endeavouring to find something new and convincing is becoming more difficult . I am always amazed that John can daily come out with his creativity and keep the arguments fresh for us . He deserves a huge pat on the back .

  26. Ian Wragg
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Cameron is cheerleader for BSE and project fear. There is no positive case for remaining so we have to be told that the divorce will be more miserable than the marriage.
    John, have you any idea of the legislation being held in abeyance until after the referendum . I have the feeling there will be some very nasty surprises if we vote to remain.

  27. stred
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    It was surprising to read that the MD of a large Westcountry dairy group had been dragged into the BSE campaign. Apart from the fact that the continentals have used BSE as an excuse to stop British beef being sold, I have never seen any British cheese or butter on sale in French, Spanish, Dutch or Swedish supermarkets. This MD was worried that they may impose their high external tariff on dairy products if we left. At the moment,we have Somerset Brieon the table and have an excellent British blue goats cheese in the fridge. Both are as good as the best French. I buy British milk and butter though my bird likes French butter.If they were daft enough to slap a 50% tariff on the UK, we would retaliate and the only farmers and dairy firms to suffer would be the continentals, while the British firms would see a boost in production and profits.

  28. Douglas Carter
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    ….’Few of them [BSE, CBI et al] seem to have read the 5 Presidents Report on future political union and the next treaty and none of them want to talk about it.’….

    I’d agree there’s a case for that. Even more importantly would be hearing both the UK Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer on the matter, on the record, out loud and in plain English. There is of course a mechanism by which to ensure they deliver that reply.

    Called Parliament.

    Perhaps someone should be asking Mr. Cameron and Mr. Osborne those questions, equally loudly, and in plain public sight? And pointing it out when those questions remain unanswered? Democracy is very considerably more important than temporary party unity?

  29. Rods
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    No surprises with the BSE campaign of threats, they used the same arguments over joining the Euro which were wrong, just like their current ones are. I think your consistent diary campaign hits the nail on the head and I have enjoyed Daniel Hannan’s series of tweets like the fire breathing dragons will descend on London if we dare to leave the EU.

    I’m just hoping that the leave vote prevails so we are a free sovereign nation again, that will make for those around in 2066 a well worth while anniversary celebrating again.

    The last French currency union, the Latin Monetary Union failed in 1927 and the Euro will suffer at some point for the same intractable solutions for the same reasons. After the merging of East and West Germany at the wrong DM exchange rate, Western Germans deeply resented picking up the bill and to do the same with the Euro will be political suicide for any German leaders. Without a shared sovereign debt and money transfers political solution the Euro will continue to inflict grievous damage on mainland Europe’s economies, until Herbert Stein’s law prevails. France suffered much worse economically than we did with the 1929 depression, where we left the Gold Standard early, time for us to do the same again, so we prosper while Europe continues to suffer from the EU legal straightjacket and the failing Euro.

    The transformation of the EEC to the EU under the Delors and Mitterrand plans has been an unmitigated disaster, time for us to leave behind the dead corpse of the Euro and EU, so the country becomes even more prosperous and so the country and the NHS can afford many of the exciting new treatments in development that are going to transform our health and how long we will live with high quality lives and living standards.

    Once we stop being held back by the moribund EU, it’s lack of democracy and its disfunction economic and political processes, exciting times lie ahead for the free people of the UK.

  30. forthurst
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    CMD is now claiming that Sussex wineries would be under threat if we Brexit. Apparently, the EU would kill our trade with them stone dead by imposing a 19p tarrif on each bottle. Has CMD ever been into a wine merchant or supermarket and seen the rows of EU sourced wine? Obviously not, or perhaps he believes that by making up this absurb scaremongering tosh, he will convince enough really stupid people to catch BSE and keep us locked in the EU for ever.

    “Peter Hall, owner of Breaky Bottom vineyard, just outside Lewes, said: “I don’t believe for one moment whether if we are in or out it would affect sales of really good quality wine further abroad or in Europe.” The Argus
    Quite: CMD just jumped his daily shark: Sussex wineries are not producing vin ordinaire for export and premium products are priced accordingly; just ask the French about their terroir BS.

  31. MPC
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    In terms of ‘suggestions for more absurd claims than they have already made’ :

    1) Visas for all UK citizens wishing to visit any EU member state
    2) Confiscation of properties in the EU owned by UK nationals, and/or restrictions on visiting them or receiving rental income
    3) A likelihood that all EU based firms operating with (profitable) bases in the UK will make all their UK based employees redundant
    5) Slow destruction of our football clubs via a new EU directive preventing non UK nationals from playing in the Premiership and lower divisions

  32. Atlas
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps BSE should have an ad called

    “Nightmare on Elm Street” – just to complete the set of nasty things that could happen to us if we have the timerity to throw off our shackles?

  33. ian
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Their main weapon is fear like you saw in the Scottish ref and the UK election just gone, they have nothing to offer because they are not in control of future plans of the EU so they are just left with fear.

    The history of the EU or the united states of EUROPE is base on the marshall plan which was dreamed up before the war ended and base on united states the USA, the first marshall plan started with the air lift into berlin and then the rebuilding of Germany and France with billion of dollars from USA and the UK we would have to give up the empire and help with the rebuilding of Europe with borrowed money or USA would not join in the war, so we were blackmailed by the USA.
    You might well ask who financed Germany war machine in the first place when they were broke after hyperinflation and world depression.

    You are still pumping in money to Europe with nothing to show for it and helping the USA with their wars on innocent people in the middle east who had their homes destroyed and their lively hooded taken away and made refugees with no place to go, all part of the marshall plan.
    Now you are expected to take in million of people from this area as they planed in the first place and if you do not they will use the humanitarian card on you to get their way.

    All this because of a few people with a dream of how the world should be with them at the top overseeing it.

    This the biggest fight the world has ever come up against, if the people of this country falls the world will fall, parliament has already fallen and it must be won back and given to the people.

  34. Dennis
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    “Given their absence of positive messages ”

    What about cheaper shop prices; better security, cheaper roaming charges; cheaper flight charges; better control of corporations dabbling in our affairs; cleaner beaches and water; won’t be a leap in the dark; workers rights, easier to live and work abroad etc. etc.

    I don’t believe or care much about these as freedom and democracy are more important and anyway much good EU stuff can be activated by our own government (will they though?) but BSE do have ‘positive’ messages.

    Reply They offer higher prices and less security!

    • forthurst
      Posted March 26, 2016 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

      “better control of corporations dabbling in our affairs”

      Obviously BSE are pretending that TTIP does not exist, otherwise they would have to acknowledge that TTIP is a corporate power grab putting our elected politicans not only under the control of the Brussels Commisariat as now but also under that of alien corporate interests and their ‘right’ to extract profits without attenuation for reasons of the public interest such as public safety. Brussels is the terminus where democracy and accountability ends for ever; the EU is the Bolshevik Empire MkII.

    • stred
      Posted March 27, 2016 at 5:29 am | Permalink

      When Amber Dudd said energy prices would increase if we left, she meant this because her own policies have become even dafter than the EU’s.

  35. Anonymous
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Whatever happened to be as wise as serpents but innocent as doves? The Protestants have been outplayed and gullible. Time for things to change as from now on.

  36. Richard1
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    The argument of most people in business is we more or less know how the next few years will look in the EU but we don’t know what will happen in the event of Brexit. It might be all trade & single market access will continue as now and it might be the uk will save £10bn pa, or it might be different – we might have to pay something and we might find some non-tariff barriers. Therefore, goes the argument, Out is more uncertain than in. Uncertainty is a cost – at the margin therefore better not to rock the boat. Some investment decisions are likely to be delayed or cancelled in the event of a Brexit vote as people wait to see what happens, meaning lower growth and higher unemployment than there would otherwise be, at least on a 3-5 year view.

    On a 30 year view we might well be better off out, but I don’t find it surprising that those, like the governor of the BoE, large company directors etc prefer the devil they know for the remaining 5 years or so of their working lives.

    Reply the future is very uncertain in the EU given the 5 Presidents agenda and the problems they face with borders, the Euro, energy etc
    Another question: given there is going to be another treaty, and the U.K. Is obliged to have a referendum on any transfer of powers in future, and given the PM has got it agreed the uk will not be subject to ever closer union, perhaps a future UK govt will be able to come back for another bite in a few years time, and achieve the objectives in the Bloomberg speech at that time?

    Reply By then they will expect the UK to accept even more central control.

  37. Lifelogic
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps to ponder why he has backed the wrong horse? Or maybe to see if he can come up with a single rational reason for remaining in this anti-democratic, top down, socialist disaster area that is the EU.

  38. zorro
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    If you can believe that….. Really that totally useless?

    zorro

  39. zorro
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    That is the ‘never let a good opportunity go to waste’ moment…. But then Belgium and Italy did have a number of terrorist attacks in the 1970/80s. Remind me again who did the Parliamentary enquiries in those countries find responsible for the acts?

    zorro

  40. fedupsoutherner
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    “Belgium police knew where Paris jihadi was FOUR months ago – but FORGOT to say”

    Yes, but doesn’t it make you feel safer????? That’s what we’re told so it must be right.

  41. zorro
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    John, you have forgotten to mention the arrival of the Antichrist and alien invasion which will definitely come if we vote out, and do not seek or invoke the protection of the (non existent) EU army. Without a shadow of a doubt, most definitely yes……

    zorro

  42. turbo terrier
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Mercia

    he is going “to Spain to think”.

    Leave it out. Up to now no matter where he has been when it comes to Europe any thought process has never entered his head.

  43. mike fowle
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    I have received the BSE leaflet which is probably the most dishonest piece of propaganda I have ever seen from a government. It is not just slightly misleading – many of its claims are a complete reversal of the truth. It is truly shocking.

  44. Andrew Macfarlane
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    I hope voters will not allow themselves to be sidetracked by remainians waffling on about Britain’s place in the world, our influence, solidarity with Europe and, worst of all, “remember the 2 world wars”. Prosperity for ordinary people in the UK has gone hand in hand with democratic control of the laws that govern them. It cannot be a coincidence that real wages and living standards have gone into reverse following the erosion of that democratic control at Maastricht and Lisbon. Let others worry about the fate of Ireland, Scotland’s future (the last thing I will be bothered about in the voting booth!) or European solidarity . Reclaiming democratic control of the laws that govern us and the benefits that will flow from that should be voters only consideration.

  45. bluedog
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    This writer has it on excellent authority that the EU will almost certainly move against cricket in the near future, Dr JR. There is as yet no EU Cricket Board and budgetary constraints together with the limited appeal of the game among EU member states would appear to make the formal approval of the game unlikely. The EU notes the extravagance of infrastructure devoted to cricket and believes that the city-centre location of many cricket grounds, such as Lords, renders them ideal for the resettlement of Syrian migrants. Unless the UK can put up a case that cricket is important in the context of the expansion of the Eurozone and that it will enhance the drive towards ever closer union, the EU proposes that cricket should be declared as non-European and banned within the EU. Both Germany and France have already indicated their approval of such a step.

  46. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    The BSE in its clumsy linguistic political ballet dancing on the EU/immigration/migrants/refugees/Muslims/ Islamic Extremists question, now declares as the crowning glory of its numptidumbishness to offset accusations that migrants may in fact contain the decidedly odd terrorist that, the Islamic terrorists of Brussels and indeed the UK were and are….. “Homegrown”.
    One is reminded of the wonderful Norman Wisdom who classically tripped over his own foot. What a set of Normans the BSE are.

  47. JoeSoap
    Posted March 26, 2016 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Your arguments are well thought through and informative.
    More could perhaps be made of the road map lined up for us towards political union if we remain members of this club. They WILL need our money, they WILL need our skills, so we WILL be forced to prop up the weaker members one way or another, with no quid pro quo. As with the UK, so with the EU, England will become the chief contributor which dares not shout its name.

  48. APL
    Posted March 27, 2016 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    JR: “I have spent all my energies setting out how we will be freer, more democratic and better off out of the EU.”

    And yet you voted for, and continue to support David Cameron as EUrophillic leader of your party.

    Time to admit that was a terrible mistake.

    Reply It has got us our referendum!

    • APL
      Posted March 28, 2016 at 6:39 am | Permalink

      JR: ” It has got us our referendum!”

      Yes, and Cameron is trying to gerrymander that vote as well.

      But anyway, if you’d instead supported David Davis who had bone fide EUrosceptic credentials, we might not have had to wait eleven years to get one.

  49. David Spayne
    Posted March 27, 2016 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    One of the reasons which deaf people are told for staying in is that they would lose the grants and funding which the E.U. give them.
    It is not mentioned that Britain has to pay the EU in the first place and receive less back, so if we leave, they will still be able to receive the funding from what we are now paying.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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