A summary of the Brexit case so far

When we remove the hated tampon tax and VAT on fuel, we boost family incomes and help tackle fuel poverty. In the EU we are not allowed to do that, as they control some of our taxes.

 

We need to take back control over taxation. The European Court has made us pay back huge sums of company tax we have collected from large companies, as they can override Parliament’s wishes on how much tax companies should pay. Out of the EU we will avoid this unhelpful interference. Last Parliament we had to pay back £7,000 million, and the Treasury forecasts the same again this Parliament – or more. We need that money for the NHS.

 

Our trade is not at risk. They sell us more than we sell them. Germany has no wish to see higher tariffs and barriers against her cars, nor France against her food and wine. As they do not want to stop their trade with us, they understand they cannot impose new tariffs against our sales to them.

 

We are constantly asked what model of trade arrangements will we have on leaving. Our campaign has never wanted the Norwegian or any other foreign option. We will have the British model. It will be very similar to current arrangements, as Germany and the other leading exporters to the UK have no wish to damage their trade.

 

We are told we will lose the main advantage of the single market, that it offers common standards and specification making it easier to supply. On the contrary, that remains true whether we are in or out. The USA and other exporters to the EU benefit from the common standards without being members and without having to pay the fees for belonging.

 

We are told we will lose global influence if we leave. On the contrary, we will gain. The UK will retake her seat at the top tables of the world where the EU has replaced us. Instead of having to compromise and agree out positon on trade matters or climate change issues with 27 other EU countries, the UK will be a full member of the global body with our own vote and voice.

 

It is not unusual for the main global bodies and the Uk Treasury to all agree the same or similar forecasts – they rely on common data and common assumptions, and often copy from one of the other’s models. Nor is it unusual for their group think to be wrong. They failed to predict the recession and huge damage done to the UK economy by the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, they failed to see the Great Crash of 2008 coming, and they recommended the Euro. With a forecasting record like that I see why many people do not now believe their long term forecasts for the UK out of the EU.

 

Out of the EU we can take back control of our borders. With controlled immigration we can cut the downwards pressure on UK wages and ease some of the pressures pushing up house prices. We need to relieve the pressures on our public services brought on by uncontrolled immigration.

 

Out of the EU the government will no longer have to dissemble over Turkish visas and Turkish membership of the EU

 

 

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54 Comments

  1. Mark B
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 5:38 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    And once again I do not see my post from yesterday being put up. Oh well. Maybe this one might fare better. 😉

    If we leave the EU, we will first have to invoke Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. We have up to two years to agree a settlement.

    Can our kind host assure us that we can do all we need to do in that time period ?

    Personally, I think not. I too do not believe that the, “Norway option” best suits the UK. But a bi-lateral trade agreement with the EU, or a sort of, EU-Lite arrangement is equally unpalatable for a whole host of other reasons.

    What is required is a staged / phased withdraw from the EU. Initially, the Norway option is the best as it give us control over all major areas of policy and maintains trade with the EU. It is far from perfect but, as I have said before, it should only ever be viewed as a temporary solution and NOT a solution in itself.

    To get where we want to be, a truly self governing and confident nation, that can play a leading and active role in world affairs, will take time. Remember, we have had over 40 years of letting the EU do all the things we use to do for ourselves and we now must relearn and rebuild much that has been lost.

    Our kind host, although well meaning, simply does not grasp the fact that the UK is not entirely prepared for the sort of ‘instant independence’ as he wishes.

    It would be good however, if he where able to put, “flesh on the bone” of what he would like to see should we decide to leave the EU. A subject I am sure he has given much thought to and, I am sure like me, many here would now like him to share with us over the next week or so.

    Many thanks.

    We wish to implement the will of the people if it is a Brexit vote quickly by amendment to the 1972 Act, followed by discussion with the EU to see What if any changes they want

    • Mark B
      Posted June 15, 2016 at 5:03 am | Permalink

      Reply to reply

      So you do not want to leave the EU then, just make a few changes ?

      And who is they ?

    • Know-dice
      Posted June 15, 2016 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      On Bx day +1

      1. Repel the act that gives ECJ precedence over UK law

      2. Guarantee that farmers etc. who currently receive EU grants will continue to get them until the end of this Parliament

      3. Allow those in this country legally with a job or job offer (or main bread winner with a family with a job) the right of permanent residency.

      The rest can follow on in due course.

      • Know-dice
        Posted June 15, 2016 at 9:25 am | Permalink

        Doh – Repeal 😳

  2. Chris S
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    These are all sound and logical arguments and it is beginning to look like they are having some effect on both undecided voters and some who have previously supported Remain.

    Could we possibly dare to hope that we might prevail ?

    What we must most definitely not do is adopt any kind of Kinnock-style complacency.

  3. Mick
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    We have the remainers on the ropes, now go in for the killer punch and hold nothing back, I think a few porkys wouldn’t go adrift now it seems to be ok for the eu loving luvvies, we need to be sure of victory so hold nothing back and dump the rule book, we will not get another shot at it, bank holiday coming next year June 23rd Independence Day?

  4. bigneil
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Keep up the good work John. Whatever the EU leaders promised DC for him serving up a whole nation for extermination, I sincerely hope he gets whatever he richly deserves.

  5. Leslie Singleton
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Dear JR–Crikey–Two “IMmigrations” in one (excellent) article. Very glad to see you have dropped the “net inward migration” Government-inspired obfuscating baloney. Very well done.

  6. Richard1
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Could you please answer this question: what is Leave’s view on immigration numbers? We have nearly 200,000 non-EU immigrants and approx the same EU. Does Leave want to reduce the totalnumbers to c 30-50k p.a. As stated by Nigel Farage? If that’s the case will there not be huge numbers of people who come in today and make a positive contribution and don’t commit crimes (builders, Uber drivers, food service workers etc) who won’t be able to come in future?

    reply Leave wants a significant reduction. we have not put a number on it.

  7. oldtimer
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    I agree with your position. In doing so I draw your attention to this post by Mark Field MP over at Conservative Home:
    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/06/mark-field-leavers-are-selling-a-vision-which-is-starry-eyed-to-the-point-of-wanton-irresponsibility.html

    I imagine these arguments could be the basis for the Remain campaign’s final week promoting Project Fear. It so, it will probably help persuade some voters who have yet to make up their mind. It seems to me that Vote Leave needs to focus on the UK and UK interests. What happens elsewhere within the EU is a matter for the countries concerned, not the Vote Leave campaign. Otherwise it will be accused of trying to destabilise the EU political order. That may or may not be a consequence of Brexit, but it is not nor should it be an objective; the objective is clear, it is to take back control to the UK.

  8. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    “…It is not unusual for the main global bodies and the Uk Treasury to all agree the same or similar forecasts – they rely on common data and common assumptions, and often copy from one of the other’s models. Nor is it unusual for their group think to be wrong…”
    This may explain also why the Bank of England mouths in lockstep with the Fed. Takes about one and a half weeks for the BoE and its independent members/advisors to come up with the same rubbish on expected rises in inflation ( “after intensive work and analysis” ).
    I had a boss like that once.
    Perhaps we’ve all worked for him at some time or other.

  9. Know-dice
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    “the single market, that it offers common standards and specification making it easier to supply.”

    The people that make this comment, don’t understand with our “globalised” supply chain, all manufacturers acknowledge that they need to design their products to meet the particular specification required in any market. Japan has different specifications to Korea, to USA, to Europe to anywhere you care to mention. It’s not a problem you take it into account when you design a product.

  10. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    I saw Osborne on TV last night warning that if we leave the EU then the poor will be hit the hardest. Somehow I don’t think many Labour supporters will find that convincing coming from Osborne, rather the opposite, fairly or not. So I hope that he repeats it, and preferably with more moisture in his eyes than he could manage yesterday.

    He also relayed the timely message from Donald Tusk (who he?) that it would take at least seven years to finalise our new treaty arrangements with the EU, and moreover inflated that further to a “decade of uncertainty”.

    The only problem is that Tusk is wrong. There is no reason why it should take two years to negotiate and conclude a new treaty – in the past treaty changes have been initiated, agreed and signed within a matter of months – and there is no reason why it should then take at least five years for all of the EU member states to ratify that new treaty – and to see that, one only has to look at what happened with the Lisbon Treaty.

    That was signed on December 13th 2007 and it was fully ratified on November 13th 2009 and came into force on December 1st 2009, less than two years from signature to coming into force, and it would probably have been about one year if the Irish hadn’t delayed it in their first referendum on June 12th 2008.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_Lisbon#At_a_glance

    Moreover there would be the possibility of provisional application if a few of the member states were slow with ratification, for example the EU’s trade deal with South Korea was applied provisionally for over four years before it came into full force:

    http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/documents-publications/agreements-conventions/agreement/?aid=2010036

    That was signed on October 6th 2010, with provisional application as from 1 July 2011 (except some parts), belatedly ratified by Italy on September 14th 2015, ratified by Korea on October 14th 2015, finally came into full force on December 13th 2015.

    This is on a par with the brazen pretence that it was no longer possible to hold a UK referendum on the Lisbon Treaty because it was coming into force and so it would no longer exist as a treaty. As a mean con it relies on most people just being too busy with their everyday lives – which incidentally are made appreciably more complicated by the government itself – to have the time and energy and inclination to thoroughly inform themselves about the technicalities around international treaties.

  11. Anonymous
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    I think it is a mistake to say that cutting migration will boost wages. Opponents will argue that it will make our workers less competitive, globally.

    No.

    Cutting migration will reduce the cost of living – a wage rise in effect. Our people will still be able to compete globally but with a better standard of living, as they have in Australia and to which our workers flock for better pay, more sociable hours and for a government that listens to their concerns.

  12. Iain Moore
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    “The European Court has made us pay back huge sums of company tax we have collected from large companies,”

    I cannot understand why the Leave campaign hasn’t made more of this, for it rubbishes part of the Remain campaign that talks of the need to cooperate to get tax off large companies, and it makes their case of us being ruled by foreign judges.

  13. Chris Manuell
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    “We are told we will lose the main advantage of the single market, that it offers common standards and specification making it easier to supply.”

    This is true, almost all standards are set by the International organisation for standards based in Geneva which sets standards world wide http://www.iso.org/iso/home.html

    • Hope
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

      Could you confirm Cameron will go straight away. People like me cannot understand why anyone in your party would want him to stay to renegotiate after all his disgusting behaviour. He still has not answered the Serco question and whether he entered his EU discussions in bad faith. Cash for questions from the unions and now titles for remain supporters, after he. Legged to clean up parliament!

  14. Bert Young
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    I agree with every point of the analysis . The manacles of the EU have restricted our democracy and made a mockery of our international history . We have given much to the world in so many areas leading the way in social reform , international relations , education and language ; this is not the time to be told by an upstart regime what we can and cannot do .

    The EU would do well to copy our standards and to recognise that each country has traditions that have been developed and nurtured over centuries ; they cannot be sublimated by conditions dreamt up by bureaucrats overnight .

    By leaving we will wave the flag of independence and resume our proper place in the world ; if by doing so it brings down the house of cards , our action will be seen as a blessing .

  15. Henry
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    My overview is that the economic case on both sides has been, and can only be, speculative nonsense, starting with arbitrary conditions, and going from there to predict the unpredictable – up to 2030, forsooth!

    The sovereignty & democracy arguments are clearer. Remainers can’t adequately intellectually deal with them. Whether the strong intellectual argument has any sway in the next week, I don’t know. Politicians like Bojo seem to focus on the emotive points like immigration – where the logical case is rather more complex, and (I suspect) involves British governments wanting to fuel growth any way they can.

    It’s not just the Commission, it’s the cliquey state of politics in the parliament, the substantial weakening of the voting power of every Briton (diluted by votes throughout Europe for a start) and the many convoluted “Councils” doing God knows what – all deliberately complicated.

    Few Remainers seem to understand what they are voting for, or the political will behind integration. The “influence EU from within” argument is particularly weak, and we should focus on the many reasons why it’s nonsense.

    Also the whole pie-in-the-sky notion of integration (a dangerous political experiment to play with 400 million (?) people) and the idea that everyone is ready fora “european identity” is as hubristic as “regime change” in Iraq was

  16. agricola
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    Quite correctly you describe what we will not have to do after Brexit, and it will all be beneficial. Both government and the people will have to awaken from dependency on the 24th. You need to be prepared.

    You now need a vision for what we can do as a sovereign nation, and it had better be better than the same, but out of the EU. My aim would be to free ourselves of as much government as possible. If the country can stand on it’s own two feet so must the people be given the opportunity. We could learn a lot from the Swiss system of government by frequent referendums. If people are responsibly involved you are more likely to get a cohesive society.

    We need to become a magnet for World manufacturing through a really competitive tax regime. Ten percent of a lot can be better than twenty percent of much less.

    Let us have a forest fire in quango land. My impression is that quangos relieve ministers of responsibility until the brown stuff hits the fan, and in many cases have acted as a fifth column for the EU.

    I want to see fracking go ahead with a vengeance to allow our industry and people to benefit from much cheaper power. The UK’s foreign owned power industry must be told that the rules have changed.

    I wish to see our water borne border control and fishery protection increased considerably. An opportunity for junior naval officers to get hands on command experience.

    I would hope that the Europhile element in our civil service who have happily politicised their role, be put out to grass minus the usual glittering array of Ks. You do not reward treachery.

    If the Conservative party is to survive, it cannot do so with the current Cabinet, PM, Chancellor and the many despicable voices off we have been subjected to. I would suggest that voices such as Daniel Hannan and Nigel Farage could be very useful in advising our divorce team on the arachnoid nuances of the EU and how to deal with them.

    I’m off to mix it with the vultures of northern Spain, but will be back for the result on the 24th. I wish you all that you would wish yourselves.

  17. Chris
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    More insight into why former Labour voters are now apparently voting for Brexit – 10 minute videoclip of interviews round the Stoke on Trent area. Disconnect with leadership very evident:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jun/14/labour-supporters-brexit-stoke-on-trent-eu-referendum-video

    • Mark B
      Posted June 15, 2016 at 5:31 am | Permalink

      Brilliant and thank you. Both to you for posting and our kind host for allowing it.

      Everyone should watch this. The last sentence in the video is both true and telling.

      A must watch.

      OUT !!!

  18. David
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    I have a question which I cannot find an answer to. The EU has an external tariff.
    Who gets that money the UK government or the EU? If the latter is it included in the cost of membership? If not why not?

    • a-tracy
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

      Good Question David!

    • acorn
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

      David, Have a look at Table 6 in http://eur-lex.europa.eu/budget/data/General/2016/en/GenRev.pdf

      Net Customs Duties (75% of total) are one part of the membership fee. GNI is the biggy and it gets recalculated and back-dated every year. The latter caused a lot of fuss for Cameron recently.

    • graham1946
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

      David

      The money goes to the EU budget. You will find the answer in depth at

      europedia.moussis.eu
      item 5.2.1 paragraph 2

      Under the Commons Customs Tariff, individual states lose the Customs Revenue.

      So this is really another loss to our exchequer and I would say needs to be added to our membership fee, but I don’t see anyone doing it – assuming I’m right. Perhaps someone else has a better answer?

      Hope assists.

      Graham

  19. Dave L
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    The prospect of “Leave” is both exciting and worrying. One of my concerns is the succour leaving may give to some political extremists. Pub talk, I know, but opinions I’ve heard expressed show a lack of tolerance for those from central and eastern Europe already in the country.

    My own neighbours, who are French, are now intending to move back to France but they tell me the prospect of Brexit is causing such a volatility in the exchange rate that they may lose a lot of money.(They’ve just sold their house!)

    My grown up children are voting “Remain” and regard me as having outdated ideas, and sent me this link yesterday…http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/johnny-rich/35-reasons-to-vote-leave_b_10322446.html
    Given the time I think I could write a riposte in similar vein for “Remain”.

    Divided country and Parties are one thing, but divided families could be a worse problem!

    • Know-dice
      Posted June 15, 2016 at 7:15 am | Permalink

      I think that there is less volatility in the exchange rate over the last few weeks than there has been over the last 3 years.

      Euro to £

      19 July 2015 1.439
      11 March 2013 1.138

      7 April 2016 1.2357 (lowest this year)
      Today 08:13 1.2624

      Reply Indeed – the story is how well behaved sterling has been considering all the rubbish hurled at it.

  20. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    I’ve just been reading this article on the Independent website:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-could-cost-half-a-million-public-sector-jobs-labour-figures-warn-a7080371.html

    “Brexit could cost half a million public sector jobs, Labour figures warn”

    All predicated on the Treasury’s defective, in fact rigged, economic projections.

    There are now over 400 comments on that article and interestingly at least 90% are dismissing it and supporting Brexit. Among the small minority on the other side I thought this one was particularly choice:

    “Don’t bother. Brexiters are either innumerate or think they can benefit by other peoples hardship once we leave. This is what happens when the great unwashed get to make decisions. It’s never worked in history and it won’t now.”

    There you go then: innumerate, selfish and callous, and what’s more unhygienic.

  21. Chris
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Article by JohnMills, chair of Labour Leave. on the disconnect between Labour leadership and the voters. He argues that the EU may work for the metropolitan elite – but it doesn’t for most working people:

    http://capx.co/the-eu-may-work-for-the-metropolitan-elite-but-it-doesnt-for-most-working-people/
    “..Who is in favour of Remain? Overwhelmingly, the metropolitan elite. They are the people who have done very well out of globalisation. They are in secure jobs earning high incomes and are more than content with their comfortable lifestyles.

    The EU brings them all the advantages which the Remain side trumpets – plentiful opportunities for travel helped by cheap flights, the scope for living and working in different countries, opportunities for grants from EU financed organisations, and lifestyles enhanced by an inexhaustible supply of waiters, au pairs, plumbers and gardeners, eager to work hard and conscientiously for low wages.

    The cost of the UK’s net contribution to the EU matters little to them because their incomes are high enough for it to be barely noticed. They are not that worried about democratic deficits in the EU because what they know of EU policy, they broadly support.

    So it doesn’t come as a surprise that it is this same metropolitan elite who lead the charge for Remain. They are the people who write reports threatening the UK with catastrophe if we leave the EU and who set the tone for much of the bien pensant media coverage, much of it with a persistent if unconscious bias in favour or Remain……”

  22. Francis Blank
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    “Our trade is not at risk.”

    It is Mr Redwood! The flaw in your logic is that the Europeans are most likely to cut off their nose to spite their face. They are already doing at the moment with their idiotic single currency.

    Its utter fantasy that that the EU will offer us some sweet heart free-trade deal. Most likely is the UK will be hung out to dry as an example to any other countries thinking about holding the EU hostage to in/out referendums.

    The EU cannot afford to offer the UK free-trade from outside the EU. It defies the logic of the point of the EU.

    I dont think a few percent trade tariffs on BMWs is neither here nor there.

    If the Danish, French and Dutch etc ran in/out referendums, it would leave the EU in utter chaos.

    Reply Some Countries not in the EU with no special deals have increased their trade with the EU faster than we have from within.

    • Dennis
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

      Reply to Reply Some Countries not in the EU with no special deals have increased their trade with the EU faster than we have from within.

      But those countries are not trying to leave or have left it. Mr Blank said ” The flaw in your logic is that the Europeans are most likely to cut off their nose to spite their face. They are already doing at the moment with their idiotic single currency.”

      You have not dealt with his point.

      • Mark B
        Posted June 15, 2016 at 5:36 am | Permalink

        Dennis

        Our kind host has not dealt with many points. One wonders if he truly is for LEAVE ?

        Reply You must be joking

    • John C.
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply: I don’t suppose they needed to be punished pour encourager les autres.
      Actually, I think we should learn to stand on our own two feet more, make more of our own stuff and run more of our basic services. Our basic situation as a nation is weak at the moment; we have come to rely on others too much, usually for quick profit.

  23. bluedog
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    The UK will retake her seat at the top tables of the world where the EU has replaced us. ‘

    Quite.

    Does it never occur to Remain that there is something rather inadequate about a permanent member of the UN Security Council that has surrendered the right to negotiate its own trade agreements to a non-UN entity?

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

      Two permanent members of the security council although one pays it’s farmers more than the other

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

      The Europeans are most likely to cut off their nose to spite their face.

      Not at all, they will act in their own interests, which will as it happens also be in the UK’s interests.

  24. Dioclese
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    The Turks are coming! The Turks are coming! No doubt about it…

    The latest argument I heard was that they can’t justify Turkey joining on economic grounds so they say it’s essential for our security.

    Can anyone explain to me how moving the EU land border closer to Syria makes us more secure?

  25. Mick
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    I notice there as been little or no reporting on migrants by any of the news channels lately, could it be because the leave campaign is gaining ground on the remainers so they don’t want to fuel the fire even more

    • John C.
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

      I think it would have been easy to anticipate the disappearance of mass invasion stories in the weeks leading up to the vote.

  26. a-tracy
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Polly Toynbee seems to me to be blaming Brexit today for football violence! The people I meet aren’t stirred up violent, they are quietly contemplative after years of not having a say and having their concerns ignored.

    Why do the Tories just take this sort of reported comment from Labour supporters and MPs Like Beckett “She told them housing shortages were due to Tory sell-offs and failure to build but a young man protested that he was falling further down the waiting list, with immigrants put first.”

    I never agreed with selling off social housing, but even I know that after eighteen years of a Labour government that built less housing association and council houses than under the Tories this statement is simply challenge able! So why don’t we hear Boris or Gove saying this. If you continue to allow the Labour party to have a free run on ‘how shit the Tories are’ you will pay the price whatever the result in a few days time. fullfact.org answered a question Do we need a new house every 4 mins because of immigration. Basically there’s just no way of knowing because it’s so uncontrolled and too many unknowns. If we need to build all of these extra houses who is going to pay for them? How much are they going to cost say on income tax per person to build them?

    The Conservatives have given extra workers rights and a living wage whilst in government. They froze your taxes and increased your personal allowance year after year. You never hear one employment benefit put in place under Conservative control and there have been plenty.

    As for the NHS why don’t we hear about the £670m more the UK pay the EU for healthcare than is claimed back, this is a failure of UK government abiding by all the EU rules but not charging, as is our countries right, on our behalf. Even though there are significantly more EU citizens in the UK than UK citizens in the EU. Then we also buy our own medical insurance when travelling!! MP John Mann got these figures so why are they kept quiet. The British NHS needs to get a grip and start charging from TODAY. Spain charges us for our pensioners out there and A&E they say that accounts for their extra – really? So what do explains France/Poland and Germany’s discrepancy? We are being taken for a ride and our health will suffer.

  27. Chris
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Is this comment really true, Mr Redwood? (Kfc 1404, The Slog). It relates to a ruling in 2001, which I suspect not many know about:

    Euro-court outlaws criticism of EU:
    THE European Court of Justice ruled yesterday that the European Union can lawfully suppress political criticism of its institutions and of leading figures, sweeping aside English Common Law and 50 years of European precedents on civil liberties.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1325398/Euro-court-outlaws-criticism-of-EU.html

  28. fedupsoutherner
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    All pretty good reasons to come out John. I cannot believe anyone wants to remain when you look at all the options. There is nothing positive about staying in and I really feel that by leaving we will build a great nation once again. Leave it any longer and we will be too poor to even think about starting again. I was speaking to someone who had built up a great distribution centre over the years, employing 35 people. The EU decided to use our money to build a similar centre in either Romania or Poland (I cannot remember which) and his business went bust. All 35 were laid off. He and his wife are now running a B&B business in Scotland. I feel we have lost many jobs in our oldest industries. Everywhere I look in my local area there are foreign shops opening up selling foreign produce but our stores are closing to be replaced by charity shops or take-aways. Let’s go our own way and show Europe we don’t need them and they can do the same thing.

  29. Dunedin
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Re: group think economic forecasting – this little snippet from Charlie Bean (ex deputy governor of the Bank of England) seems to have slipped under the radar. Not a very sensational comment, (more along the lines of old style BofE speak), he talks about the “overambitious expectations of what can be delivered by economic forecasts”.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03xym61

    Another economist whose comments have not had much of an airing is Yanis Varoufakis – on the Andrew Marr show a couple of weeks ago. I guess the left-wing poster boy was off-message when he was dismissive of the 600 economists backing remain story and said economists could not be trusted to predict the future. Also said that the remain scare campaign was nonsense. (Appears on 29 June in the papers review section and again in a small section at the end with Liam Fox – don’t agree with his reasons for staying in though).
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07f10gy

  30. Jagman84
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    With regard to ‘top tables’ am I correct in saying that in some cases the EU replaced us in some forums? Consequently, the EU will lose it’s say when we Brexit and reclaim our rightful position, seeing as we are the 5th largest economy.

  31. Lifelogic
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Indeed if you want yourself, your children and grandchildren to be stronger, safer and better off then Brexit is the only way to go.

    If you want them to have a democratic birth right it is the only way to go too.

    Brexit is will surely win now so I shall have to decide what cause to give my 4.5:1 betting winning to? The problem is nearly all the charities were clearly run by remain types or are not really charities at all by my standards just businesses run for the benefit of the staff.

    • graham1946
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

      LL

      I’d say forget the big ones. Try a local one of interest to you such as an animal shelter or maybe a food bank (I doubt one exists where you reside).

      I try not to do big charities anymore, especially since Foreign Aid has been increased by the govt on my behalf. What does it for me is reading that the wife of a prominent politician runs one at a salary of £240,000. I won’t mention who as Dr. R will not allow it, think.
      I therefore have no more guilt trips when I see adverts on telly for Africa and the like (earthquakes etc aside) as I consider I’m doing my bit via the government.

    • Jagman84
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

      Lifelogic
      Go for a local hospice. At least they try to provide a modicum of human dignity that the Government wishes to deny us.

  32. ian wragg
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    It’s all starting to fall into place what would happen after 23rd if we vote Remain.
    Cameron has no intention of controlling immigration because
    1. He sold off the Patrol Boats.
    2. He cancelled the Air Surveillance contract
    3. He is in discussions to allow Turks visa free travel into the UK.
    4. He has done nothing to reduce non EU immigration which he can control.
    he assumes that after voting to stay IN the EU’s external borders will be secured by Brussels as this is their intention.
    He has decimated our Armed Forces so we now have to rely on “co-operation” with our EU neighbours for defence.
    He is buying American Orion Maritime surveillance Aircraft and Apache helicopters in the latest move to de-industrialise Britain.
    His latest move is to seriously impoverish us on Brexit by doing a Norwegian type deal where we continue to pay extortionate membership fees and keep free movement.
    Everything is falling into place.

    Make 23rd June Independence Day
    Vote LEAVE

  33. oldtimer
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    A Vote Remain was posted to us today. It did not offer any convincing argument to vote remain. The best it could manage, on the back page, was the statement “Choose a stronger future. Don`t let Farage speak for you.” This entirely misses the point of the referendum.

    It also claimed that the “polls were too close to call” at “41% for remain and 41% for leave”. I have no idea, and the leaflet did not say, where these numbers come from – and I have followed the polling results closely.

    If this is the best they can do, no wonder the campaign appears in disarray. Guido Fawkes says that EU Commissioner Juncker has an agreement with Mr Cameron to intervene if Brexit leads in the polls in the last week. He argues, apparently, that he could not stay silent in such a circumstance; he is, after all, reported to have said there is “no room for democracy” in the EU. If he does I do wonder if we are going to get a last minute offer along the lines offered a few days before the Scottish referendum. Vote Leave needs to be on its guard.

    • oldtimer
      Posted June 14, 2016 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

      The first sentence should read a Vote Remain leaflet…

  34. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    The Brexit Campaign has not addressed Ex-Polish Prime Minister Mr Tusk’s fears that:-
    “Brexit could spell the end of western civilisation. “. Well…he does seem to admire the undoubted strength of the United Kingdom and would make a better Brit than many squawk-box Corbynistas.

    • Know-dice
      Posted June 15, 2016 at 6:46 am | Permalink

      In which case why didn’t he Mr Tusk, Mr Junker, Frau Merkel & Monsieur Hollande give our Prime Minister a bit more respect when he did his “grand tour” before calling this referendum.

      Didn’t they have the knowledge that the UK leaving the EU would cause Armageddon? it’s all too much like “the boy who called wolf”.

      And back on terra firma – why would any responsible Prime Minister call a referendum if they knew that the end result could be so disastrous to the Country?

      The only conclusion you can come to is that they all are “trying to fool all the people all of the time”

  35. Traded
    Posted June 14, 2016 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Your point about the £7bn tax that had to be handed back really should be publicised by the Leave campaign.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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