Why Remain is the riskier option

During the campaign there has been a deafening silence from Remain over the EU changes planned on the continent once the referendum is out of the way. Remain never seems proud of the unifying impulses of the EU, and spends its time in denial about the substantial moves to full economic, monetary, banking and political union which the EU institutions and many continental governments seek.

The European Peoples party Manifesto is a good starting point. This grouping of the main centre right parties of the EU, which the Conservatives under Mr Cameron left as it is federalist, state

“We want a European political union.” They envisage pan European elections with “a direct election by the people of a President of the European Commission”. They see the Euro and free movement of people as two central pillars of their new Europe. They seek a common defence, and majority voting to form a single foreign policy view.

Meanwhile at the practical day to day level the EU Commission is currently hammering out a more integrationist agenda. In full knowledge of the UK’s wish to have more flexibility on VAT, and written after the so called UK/EU deal,EU comment on the latest VAT Action Plan says

“Any such uncoordinated stand alone measures (different rates etc) would shift the focus from the overriding objective of putting in place a definitive regime at the first available opportunity. It would create additional distortions within the single market and thereby also increase opportunities for fraud”

So even in the crucial area of taxation where the UK government implied it had won new freedoms for us to tax as we wish, the EU is already planning detailed legislation to centralise and to limit such freedoms.

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108 Comments

  1. Roy Grainger
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    Sorry to see a report that Michael Gove is considering leaving the government in the case of a Remain win – at Education and Justice he’s been notable for having a coherent ideological agenda which he’s carried through. However I can see it would be hard to sit round the cabinet table with the likes of Osborne and his band of Quisling careerists like Sajid Javid.

    • Hope
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

      JR, have a beer, take the night off. A job well done. You could not have done anything more, other than rid your party of Cameron and Osborne.

      Junker make it clear there is no more than the crumbs he gave Cameron, it is confirmed Turkey will be discussed on 30/06/2016 and it is abundantly clear to all that you cannot beleive a word Cameron says. The EU will be glad to see the back of Cameron after allowing the referendum.

      Cameron is not fit for public office, let alone high public office. Even if remain win Cameron has doomed your party to opposition and will be viewed as the least trusted PM in living memory. Let us hope Chilcott will take the focus to Blair, Straw etc to help him.

    • Richard1
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

      I would be very sorry to see Michael Gove leave the government as he was so effective especially at Education. But your insulting response to anyone disagreeing with the line you’ve decided to take is exactly what the Conservative Party needs to avoid. Sajid Javid is not a quisling – he’s weighed it up, doubtless heard the huge weight of business opinion for Remain since that’s the department he’s in – and come down marginally on the side of remain. I think the constant attempt to pin ignoble motives on politicians who’ve had to take a view is both nonsense and unfair – and the same applies to Remainers who’ve accused Boris Johnson of taking his position out of personal ambition and not principle after careful reflection.

      • zorro
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

        Mr Sajid, I am afraid, has acted in a purely careerist fashion…..

        zorro

        • Hope
          Posted June 23, 2016 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

          Another person you cannot believe a word he says. Career before country. He should resign along with all those who said one thing to get elected and did the opposite, i.e. The MP from Plymouth.

  2. Mark B
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    Good morning – again

    Even if we lose, we win.

    🙂

  3. Antisthenes
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    The EU has accelerated cross border cooperation and does make some good decisions (the law of averages ensure that it will) however on balance it is not an institution that is working in anyone’s best interests. It can be argued it has a role but that role does not include being a government or a decision maker in any form. In it’s present structure it is bound to fail. Undemocratic and centralising institutions always do. We do not want to be part of it when it does as it will drag us down with it.

    For me the EU I would like to be part of would be something akin to the UN, WTO and the like that pushes for improvement but does not impose it. Where participation is voluntary and can be transient when necessary.

  4. Al
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    VAT is a sore topic with many after the #VATMESS on place of supply but I think the Remain side have missed something.

    They keep saying we’ll be blocked from all EU Trade if we leave.

    But the EU already announced in May that any business which can’t afford the admin costs of VAT Place of Supply rules (est.£4,000p.a.) should block EU customers.

    For many small businessmen, being blocked from accessing the EU market when Britain leave isn’t a threat, because it is a reality right now.

  5. Ian Wragg
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    Until the EU has all the manufacturing in France and Germany and the rest of Europe turned into a large theme park they will never rest.
    Brussels would be happy if we all wore the EU uniform and drove the commission approved Trabbant2.
    Daily we March to the reincarnation of the Soviet Union.
    Let’s be rid of this nonsense
    VOTE LEAVE.

  6. stred
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    Vat has to be the same over the EU or, as they say, fraud would occur. For example the boats smuggling illegal migrants and guns into our Channel and Thames Estuary ports could also profit from tampon running on the return trip.

    If Remain wins it would be worth a bet on Eural deciding to re-join the Peoples Party. If Leave wins it will be necessary to remove him and Osborne, as they will be hopeless negotiators. I can recommend a squirt of WD40 when prising the fingers of reluctant tenants from the door knob and nos 10 and 11.

  7. fedupsoutherner
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Just like it was from the very beginning the public are being deceived and have no idea what is going to befall them in the near future. We will have no control over anything eventually. We’ll be dragged into conflicts we want nothing to do with, taxed so that other countries will benefit and God only knows what else they have planned. OUT is the ONLY way forward. We will all be slaves to the EU. On a different topic I notice that diesel cars are being picked on yet again. I wonder how long before we all get taxed out of our cars and into what is a useless public service sector? Rail strikes are so bad at the moment that the trains have become dangerous. My daughter in law is not getting home until 8pm in the evening because of the strikes and nearly got crushed in the doors the other night because of the crowds. All over who is going to shut the doors. What do foreigners think when they visit this country?

  8. Gary C
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    Last nights debate.

    I found the remain side to come across shouty, agitated and bullying. Whereas the leave side were calm and measured in their responses.

    The Turkey issue was never answered by remain, ‘unlikely’ could mean ‘possibly’, they kept saying that we have a veto though did not say they would use it and brushed aside the fact that money has been spent helping turkey to join.

    The best move by remain was keeping Cameron out of sight.

    Overall I thought the leave side were dignified and came across very well, well done.

    • Gary C
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

      On trade:

      A German industry boss has said it would be “very, very foolish” if the EU imposes trade barriers on the UK in the event it votes to leave the EU.

      “Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries – or between the two political centres, the European Union on the one hand and the UK on the other – would be a very, very foolish thing in the 21st Century,” Mr Kerber told the BBC’s World Service.

      http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36596060

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

        I wonder if there’s time for the nine out ten economists who’ve been predicting catastrophe to adjust their models … actually eight of ten economists weren’t sufficiently bothered to even respond to that survey …

    • John C.
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

      I can never understand the illogicality of the Remain attitude to Turkey. On the one hand they claim that mass free immigration is a marvellous thing, and at the same time they reassure us that Turkey will never join the E.U.
      Surely they should logically be declaring Turkey’s membership and the “possibility” (i.e. certainty) of millions of new immigrants as an exciting development that should be expedited as soon as possible?
      The fact that they want to remove the Turkey question from the debate is a sign that even they recognise it as a potential catastrophe.

  9. Caterpillar
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    Overall the so-called debate has been one of – consequences pulled out of a hat – and limited laying out of in/out scenarios and strategies. Advertising can lead to misinformation or move towards perfect information, I think in this debate we have seen the market failing option. Despite my personal efforts to not view the PM with disdain (whether sociopath or not PM must be a hard job) I cannot now view the incumbent as a national leader of standing, I would hope to see both IQ and integrity. It just ‘feels’ embarrassing.

  10. Hope
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Why does Sky show old polls with remain in the lead if not to influence? This bias. It is not showing when leave was way out in the lead last week!

    • John C.
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

      I think you know the answer to your question.

  11. stred
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    One reason my son is determined to vote Remain, despite admitting that Leave won the debates, is that he thinks his Scandinavian girlfriend will not be able to travel and work here and that he will be unable to do the same in her country. He has seen the problems for UK citizens with partners from outside the EU. In order to clamp down on immigration, the Home Office treats couples not both in the EU such a UK/NZ harshly, while allowing multiple dependents in from the EU. I can’t answer this. Can you?

    Reply If she comes now there is no problem and she can stay. The future rules will allow qualified people and people with skills we need to come in,but will stop large numbers coming in to take low wage jobs

    • Mark B
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 11:39 am | Permalink

      If remain part of the EEA / EFTA, then we would not have that problem as freedom of movement rules would apply. Yes, the UK could suspend some or all freedom of movement rules, currently while in the EU only the Commission can do this, but if she is working and can support herself then I see no reason why she should remain.

      Go see the EFTA website and freedom of movement rules.

      It is such a shame that this and many other issues where not properly addressed. To much talk of who will replace, Cameron, the economy and other things of little real value to the debate.

    • stred
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply. Thanks- as I thought. The problem is that they want to go back and forth and don’t have highly paid jobs. Bearing in mind that men on the Leave side like Farage, myself and some frequent contributors here have EU wives and partners, It would not do much harm to immigration figures if UK citizens were allowed to marry them, providing they can show that the marriage is not arranged and a means of gaining entry for economic reasons.

      This factor could be a big vote loser for Leave. It could even affect North and Southern Irish marrying.

      • stred
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

        I would hope that someone high up in Leave and a minister could sort this out and state that marriage and partnerships between EU and UK people will still be allowed- and get it on the news and papers PDQ.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

          Of course the government would sort this out if we left the EU, and well-behaved Scandinavian girlfriends would still be able to come and go without let or hindrance, and moreover my Swedish dentist could continue to look after my teeth. But the Remain side prefers to cause blameless people entirely unnecessary worry to get them to do what your son intends to do, vote to stay in. It’s pretty disgusting, it’s not how I want my government to behave.

    • zorro
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

      As long as she isn’t a charge on the state, and can support herself, there won’t be a problem….Not unreasonable?

      zorro

      • DaveM
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

        A bit like all those UK expats who live in Europe?!

  12. Lifelogic
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Remain will be a disaster. The EU steamroller will just run over us. The U.K. Will be treated with even more contempt. UK democracy will surely be finished untill we can restore a real non Libdim, Conservative party and win a convincing election.

    Whatever the result is is surely clear that, but for project fear, and the Cameron, state sector, BBC propaganda leave is surely well in the Majority.

    Had Cameron come out for leave, and without project fear, and the milking of the Jo Cox tragedy it would have been perhaps as much as 2 to 1 for leave.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 10:41 am | Permalink

      Leave within the Tory Party members must be ahead by something like 80:20 – so why is the leadership so out of touch?

      • Mark B
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 11:40 am | Permalink

        Because they no longer matter.

    • John C.
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

      Might still be. Do you trust the polls?

  13. Lifelogic
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    The huge and many risks of remain have been very underplayed in this debate.

    • zorro
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

      ‘underplayed’…. They have barely (and deliberately) if at all been covered. The whole thing is a classic psyop.

      zorro

  14. bluedog
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    No surprise to learn that plans are well advanced within the EU for further integration, Dr JR.

    To the Remainians one can only ask this; how can you, in all conscience, vote to continue in membership of a political union that does absolutely nothing to correct youth unemployment of between 25 and 50%?

    We read that younger voters aged 18-35 are majority Remainians. We can see it in the irrational attacks by Ruth Davidson on Boris Johnson, although Scottish politics may have been involved too. But this is like turkeys voting for Christmas. Quite how this age group can ignore the demands of the EU for Britain to surrender the pound and join the Eurozone, and to harmonise taxes, with all that that implies for the British economy is beyond belief. This age group seems to have been seduced by qualitative benefits that they may not soon be able to afford to enjoy, such as the freedom to move, work and live anywhere in the EU. They should look Ireland where almost a whole generation has upped and left.

    One can only say to the 18 to 35s, if you vote Remain you will shortly learn the meaning of buyer’s remorse.

    • Mark B
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 11:43 am | Permalink

      Currently the UK economy is doing well. This will change and when the young start to find it harder and more end up on the scrapheap like they are elsewhere in Europe, they too will change. The thing is, it will not be the EU that will get it, it will be the Tory Party and, to a lesser extent, Labour.

      • bluedog
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

        Exactly. Remove the flexibility and the self-government that has given the UK the strongest economy in Europe, replace all that with central planning from Brussels, and what do you get? An EU style depression.

        The 1300 useful idiots of the business community who have just signed in support of Remain should be deeply ashamed of their gullibility and naivety. Stick to your widgets, boys and girls, the rest of the world sells to the EU without being members, so can we.

    • zorro
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

      Ruth Davidson – in my mind, a potentially terrifying and dangerous populist….

      zorro

  15. Chris
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    I think these resurrected quotes from Juncker illustrate how risky it is to remain in the EU. (I haven’t quoted them all – see D Tel article):

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10967168/Jean-Claude-Junckers-most-outrageous-political-quotations.html

    On Greece’s economicmeltdown in 2011
    “When it becomes serious, you have to lie.

    On EU monetary policy
    “I’m ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious … I am for secret,
    dark debates”

    On British calls for a referendum over Lisbon Treaty
    “Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,”

    On French referendum over EU constitution
    “If it’s a Yes, we will say ‘on we go’, and if it’s a No we will say ‘we continue’,”

    • DaveM
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

      At least he’s honest! And he was honest again today – bet Cameron wasn’t expecting that.

      Surprised the BBC reported both that and the German business guy today. Mind you I think the BBC has been hedging its bets for the past couple of weeks. They reported on the Chunnel walker but still hardly any mention of the riots in Calais. Thank god for the papers – Turkey’ll probably be front page tomorrow.

  16. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Here’s Heseltine saying that in time we will join the euro:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh7bonnNUiM&feature=youtu.be

    And he’s right, because what Cameron presents to the UK electorate as the UK’s “special status” within the EU is seen by the EU as the UK’s “anomalous position”.

    Wallstrom in July 2007:

    ” … the European Commission does not like opt-outs. We would have preferred not to have any opt-outs … I prefer to have a charter which is legally binding, and an opt-out is also an opt-in so this is not cast in stone.”

    Merkel in May 2010:

    “Our goal must be that all EU member States join the euro one day”

    Lagarde in June 2016:

    “One market, one money.”

    So of course if we stay in the EU for the sake of Cameron’s precious “one market” then with more and more of the other member states fulfilling their treaty obligations to join the “one money” it is only a matter of time before the UK government and Parliament succumb to the pressure and take us into it as well, and nobody should fool themselves that they would have to get the people to agree to that in a referendum.

  17. acorn
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    Have you noticed the way this referendum is being organised? 399 district level Councils, get counted in 382 counting centres; which report up to Regional collating centres; they report up to the national chief counting officer in Manchester, who declares the official winner. The 12 regions being the EU Parliament constituencies. This is the cheapest way to do it apparently. Why we need a regional level is not clear to me.

    Perhaps the EU wants to know the feelings of 12 of its 98 “CoR Regions” that will form the basic architecture of the US of E. That is, after they have got rid of 28, or more, national parliaments and replaced them with 98 Roman style Governors; answerable to Brussels.

    Naturally, the US of E will need uniform federal tax rates across the empire. Can’t have varying VAT applications or petrol duties across regions. Imagine having citizens driving from one region to another, just to buy stuff at different VAT and Duty rates! (A problem the USA has with out-of-state sales taxes.)

    The US dollar got to be the de-facto “world reserve currency”, by virtue of the country running large trade deficits for long periods. Foreigners end up with a lot of your currency. As long as those foreigners have faith in the US economy, they will keep wanting to “save”, some of their wealth in US Dollar denominated assets, real or financial. They may even use it alongside their own currency back home. If they lose faith, they tell you by selling your currency down. The UK has to demonstrate the faith in the Pound, big and loud.

  18. Tad Davison
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    I agree.

    Yesterday, a Lib Dem came to my door to see if I had decided yet, presumably hoping I would declare for in. I respectfully challenged him to convince me of his ‘remain’ position. He said, ‘it’s the economy – simple’. I said it isn’t the economy, and it isn’t so simple. Armed with all the facts that appear on these pages, I wanted to debate with him, but realising he was not going to win that debate, his attitude changed. He said I was being rude.

    To be clear, for daring to challenge an indefensible position, I was deemed rude, but there is something more to that scenario. It seems to me that the ‘IN’ campaign generally are insufferably arrogant, especially the ones who imply one has to be educationally sub-normal to want to leave. All we get from them is scaremongering and innuendo.

    The Lib Dem who came to my door was a little put out that anyone should have the audacity to contradict his narrow and myopic pro-EU position, and he quickly became annoyed, so I responded in kind and he left with a flea in his ear (and he was lucky it was just a flea!)

    My message to anyone who hasn’t yet decided which way to vote in tomorrow’s referendum, and even to those who have, can be summed up in just a few easy words that tell them everything they need to know – the EU is dangerous, it is undemocratic, and we should have no part of it!

    Tad Davison

    Cambridge

    • zorro
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

      That is their stock position – they get angry (mad eyes) and defensive when you challenge them. The same happened to me in the high street recently – nice as pie at the start but by the end he was clearly seething….. Nice

      zorro

    • John C.
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

      There is a clear tendency on the part of Remain supporters to assume that they are dealing with inferior intellects who are unsophisticated, untravelled and uncultured.
      I am still waiting for someone to knock on my door and discuss the issue with me, but, alas, the call never comes.

  19. Bill
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I was sickened by the slanderous comments from the Remain side in last night’s TV debate.

    As for all these ‘experts’ we hear about – has anyone worked out how they cite each other? In other words, the economic model of, say, the treasury is simply taken on trust by the next ‘independent forecaster’. The result is that these reports are not really independent but simply repetitions from a variety of organisations.

    • Anonymous
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

      ***Amended***

      Bill – The biggest liars are Remainers yet they were allowed to scream and scream ‘liar’ at their opponents.

      Ad Hominem attacks really need to be confronted and taken down at source.

      My only hope is that the undecideds saw this and were put off.

      ——-

      I’d like to respond to a point made by Newmania in a previous thread. That Leave would be catastrophic for the City.

      My belief is that Remain will be catastrophic for the City too. Bailouts, Tobin taxes, regulations and personal taxation to prop up the failing EZ to come.

      Many of the regional working classes have already had the worst done to them (by the City under the aegis of the EU) so such huff and puff might not have the expected effect on them.

      Sovereignty and the rule of democratic law – from which all rivers flow.

      Newmania knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Shackled to the EU we are doomed to economic decline anyway.

      If the worst is to happen (and I don’t believe it will with Brexit – unless deliberately) then it really is a matter of choice between two things:

      – poverty with sovereignty

      – poverty without sovereignty

      Tell me which you are most likely to recover from economically !

      Vote Leave.

    • Jagman84
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

      They are all rent-a-quote organisations, in thrall to the EU, due to taking Mr Juncker’s euros. For supposedly intelligent people, universities and ‘experts’ seem incapable of seeing that ‘EU money’ is actually UK taxpayers money and can be maintained (or even increased), post-Brexit.

  20. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Turks “flabbergasted” to learn that Cameron intends to put off their EU membership for a thousand years
    Just a reminder:

    Under Hague’s “referendum lock” law we did not have a referendum on whether we, the people not the politicians, wanted Croatia to be admitted to the EU:

    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121212135632/http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/eu-act-croatia-stmnt-020212

    And under Hague’s “referendum lock” law we would not have a referendum on whether we, the people not the politicians, wanted Turkey to be admitted to the EU.

  21. Atlas
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Indeed John,

    I think that this important aspect of the referendum has never been made clearly enough on main-stream TV.

  22. Kenneth
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    I would suggest there are multiple risks but the overriding risk is that the British People no longer have democracy.

    Those that are happy to see our hard fought democratic rights traded in for “workers’ rights” will have nowhere to go if, in a few years, the eu decides to abolish these rights.

    Who will they vote out?
    How could they vote them out, whoever ‘they’ are?
    Who will they write to?

  23. Bert Young
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    I picked up one item of interest in the news today – Germany has indicated that if Brexit wins they will want to maintain a duty free regime with us . Carry this view to the majority of other EU members who need to trade with us , drives the economic case into the long grass .

    One way or another the EU is in troubled waters ; its plea for further integration is flawed . If we “remain” it will be under new Political leadership making it tougher for any new proposals to go ahead . Our eurosceptics will not allow another wimp at the helm .

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 11:29 am | Permalink

      Quite.

      The remain case that the duty free deal will not be on offer as it has not been given to other countries ignores the fact that duty free is the status quo. Business and government like the status quo so it becomes a more likely settlement. If an £85 billion trade deficit within a free trade area was not already in place then it could not be negotiated. As it already exists it is a perceived loss in negotiations.

      Maintain your £85 billion deficit EU, lose the freedom of movement and the membership fee. A relatively simple negotiation I would suggest.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36596060

      “EU referendum: Trade curbs ‘foolish’ if UK votes Leave, says German industry”

      “German Industry Calls for Free Trade Deal if We Vote Leave Tomorrow”

      Just what our host has been saying.

    • John C.
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

      An interesting point. Gazing into a crystal ball, one can only see that, if Remain win, it can only be with a very slim majority, and it will be apparent that half the country has little faith in the E.U.
      Under these circumstances, any dealings with the E.U. will be examined with the greatest cynicism; it will be very hard to slip by Euro-babble when notable figures, organs of the press, and a good half of the population have declared opposition to our membership.
      Hopefully, Leave will win, and we can start to rebuild free from the shackles of a growing tyranny.

  24. Chris S
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    The path Brussels is following hasn’t changed, nor will it, whatever the state of public opinion across Europe.

    Any thoughts Cameron has of getting the crumbs he thought he “won” back in February are going to be difficult enough to put into place if we vote to Remain. Anything further is pure fantasy.

    They’ve been holding back so much stuff since the beginning of the year that, should the voters foolishly choose to believe Cameron, they will rapidly realise they were conned when this all starts to come out of the woodwork.

    It will kick off with Federica Mogherini’s new Foreign and Defense strategy document which has been scheduled for release on the 24th. I just checked on the Commissioner’s diary. Mogherini’s diary is one of several one that does not list any events beyond 23rd June………..

    • Chris S
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 10:24 am | Permalink

      PS

      Why has the leave campaign not asked Cameron for an assurance that he will always veto any move towards Juncker’s European Army ?

      • Mark B
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 11:45 am | Permalink

        Because that might be seen as being disloyal.

      • a-tracy
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

        What do the Remain camp say?

        It did this was the answer if you believe old Cast Iron himself:

        David Cameron says: ‘They said we were powerless to stop Britain being forced into an EU army. ‘Again, not true. We have a rock solid veto on EU foreign and defence policy initiatives. ‘Even if it was proposed, we would veto it. Just like William Hague did when he vetoed the idea of a European HQ on defence policy.’ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/an-eu-army-is-not-just-a-stupid-idea–its-a-grave-threat-to-our/

        • John C.
          Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

          There’s not a lot of point trying to get Cameron to make a firm promise. He’ll make it if it suits him, but it will mean nothing.

  25. ferdinand
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    The heat generated in these public meetings based on wild statements is quite depressing, almost as if he who shouts loudest wins the argument. Even genuine facts as you have stated are condemned as lies. I have to resort to Enoch Powell’s oft expressed view. “Leave it to the British people, they usually get it right”. I have now finished canvassing and helping and I still feel that Vote Leave might just win but it is very, very close.

  26. acorn
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    “And when you think about the trade deficit that Britain runs with the rest of the EU, the day that it exited, it would become the EU’s largest export market. So, pure self-interest would prevent the remaining 27 EU Member States from trying to ‘punish’ Britain in some way, not to mention that fact that all nations are bound by World Trade Organisation rules that prevent discriminating trade arrangements.”

  27. Lifelogic
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Perhaps the four greatest lies that the BBC and the remain side seem to have managed to get away with are:-

    1. the claim that EU migrants pay in more than they cost.

    This is certainly not true. Some may, but on average, they certainly do not. Even the UK population in general pay in less than they get. We know that Osborne is borrowing hugely on the backs of our children with his PSBR to cover the shortfall. So the idea that the generally far lower paid migrants pay in more than they cost is clearly absurd.

    2. The idea that we have control of our borders within the EU due to Schengen.

    Patently not true. So what if they have to show a passport as they are waved in?

    3. The idea that leaving will cause economic damage – it will be nothing but good for the UK on balance certainly in the medium to long term. No fees to pay, a bonfire of red tape, lower import duties, cheap energy, limited and quality migrants only and the dire IHT ratter and job destroying wage controller Osborne gone.

    4. The idea that leave are somehow responsible for the tragic death of Jo Cox. milked mercilessly by remain and the “BBC thinkers” like Polly Toynbee’s

    It is the current immigration system that is racist by definition – EU good everyone else bad, regardless of merit or talent.

    Surely the UK voters will vote to restore democracy and not vote for EU serfdom after all the disasters inflicted by the EU.

    Vote for Democracy, free trade and cooperation – Great Britain wants nothing more.

  28. The PrangWizard
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    We are nearly there, just one more nail-biting day to go but I’m confident Leave will win the day.

    In the barbers this morning I asked which way the young girl cutting my hair would vote, and she said Leave, as would all her colleagues; there are about five. The main issue was immigration, she said her sister and husband who were in work and renting a newly built small house were incensed that Polish immigrants who were not in work were given houses of the same size and type nearby, and some of her friends also in work couldn’t get one.

    I would like to thank Mr Redwood in particular amongst the many others for his sterling work and determination in this mammoth journey. I could not possibly match his stamina and skill which has been outstanding.

    I have been waiting 40 years for this, having voted ‘no’ in 1975. I’m looking forward to an enormous weight being taken from my shoulders, and for the rebirth of our nation.

    But to me out means out, and entirely free, no compromise, no concessions; we do not want defeat to be snatched from the jaws of victory. If the EU is allowed even a small toe in the door, it will soon be a foot and then the whole body will be through, because the establishment remainers will find a reason to allow it.

    • Know-dice
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

      “I would like to thank Mr Redwood in particular amongst the many others for his sterling work and determination in this mammoth journey. I could not possibly match his stamina and skill which has been outstanding.”

      Hear, Hear 🙂

      I would also like to thank Denis Cooper for his exceptional research work, that I found most enlightening and LifeLogic for brightening up the odd dull day with his “Indeeds” & “No Ifs, No Buts” 😀

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

        Thank you for those kind words!

        • Chris
          Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

          Very well deserved, Denis. Thank you from me as well.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

      A stirring speech by Peter Shore in 1975:

      http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/eu-referendum-look-night/

      If I’d heard it I might have voted differently.

    • David Price
      Posted June 23, 2016 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

      I agree, good post and good work by our host and the contributors on the blog.

      I too am hopeful that Leave will win. But even if it doesn’t then it cannot be a return to the status quo. The attitude towards the electorate and intent of so many in the establishment and finance have been starkly revealed while the behaviour of the government and media has been attrocious. I don’t see how the position of many in government will remain tenable.

      Besides, the EU will not be able to help itself, they will accelerate their race to federation and there is a general election in 5 years, plenty of time for people to regret voting to stay.

  29. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    Remain is a riskier option; for, it gets more complex.

    Every local Councillor knows, that irrespective of the the IQ, manual skills, trade skills, college and university qualifications of persons he may meet on the doorstep, that irrespective of his own IQ and educational attainments he will for the most part be able to outsmart them, out-argue them, not necessarily by clever fox-like linguistic esoteric tricks or jargon but simply because “people out there” are without political learning…hands-on-how-to basic political skills. Utterly untrained and meaningfully unacquainted with political rhetoric, elliptical and circular arguments, ad hominem arguments and associated ploys which one could list perhaps under the heading A List Of Fallacious Arguments.

    The Remain Camp last night in the Great Debate were quite able to rant, chant, and play the man not the ball, and use political double-talk with 6000 people listening who did not for the most part guffaw almost their every word.

    If the Leave Campaign lose the vote on the 23rd June then leading politicians, in fact all politicians of the group should try to make amends by so altering our education policies in schools, colleges and universities to address the political-deficit of all of our people. You have kept our people in blind deaf poverty. Boris had to, at the last fence, appeal to hearts.

    • John C.
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      I think the “debaters” last night could have read out short stories by Dickens and received roars of applause. It was vote by the biggest cheer.
      I am heartily sick of such programmes and I switched off towards the end. As a vehicle of democracy, they are useless.

  30. James Barr
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Sadiq’s comment branding Brexit supporters as haters will have done the Remain camp no good. His words were both offensive and inaccurate. I listened to an early morning LBC show and only one of the callers is going to vote remain. Our sovereignty takes primacy over all the other arguments. Vote leave.

    • Jagman84
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

      Leaving will allow us to have a stock-take of all our Government institutions. Maybe the ‘bonfire of the quangos’ will finally take place. We need to get on top of our debt, both National and personal, or it will bury us all. EU or no EU.

    • zorro
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

      Sadiq Khan – nasty, bullying, aggressive, and patronisingly dismissive comments and hatred from him branding us Project Hate…. Let’s see how you govern London Mr Khan – we will be watching.

      zorro

  31. Eleanor Justice
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    There is a tide in the affairs of man when taken at the flood leads on to fortunes
    Omitted ,all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries
    On such a sea we are now afloat and we must take the current when it serves or lose our ventures.
    Lets pray the tide is for leaving

  32. Dennis
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    I heard this morning on the Today programme Mr John(Prime Minister, what would you like to say to the nation)Humphreys try to put some questions to the PM but just gave up with the PM’s well practised snow job on him to not answer any questions.

    Humphreys doesn’t allow any others to get away with that so is it just deference to the PM?

  33. NickW
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    The first thing that will be needed in the event of a Brexit vote is calm reassurance for the people of this country, the markets and the rest of the world.

    But how can Carney, Cameron and Osborne, give that reassurance without exposing themselves as liars and making those reassurances worthless?

    For what it’s worth, I have no doubt whatever that the world will continue to turn smoothly whatever the result. Changes will be gradual.

    • zorro
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      I still think that leaving them in the levers of power is not tenable, and they must be removed one way or the other.

      zorro

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

      Luckily the German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble realises that:

      “If the British do actually vote to leave the EU, it will be important to remain calm and offer the markets some orientation on which way the road will lead. Then we would have to say: “We now have a decision that we did not want, but let’s make the best of it”.”

  34. ian
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    This country will never progress into a civilized nation as long as you keep parties politic and division, it has been seen that less people vote as time go on and it is also becoming more violent as time go by.
    Politician with the media are closes they have come to insight insidious violence thought with speech of fear and propaganda to win votes.

    • Edward2
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

      I think the UK is quite civilised.
      Are you suggesting a benevolent dictatorship to run the UK?

  35. M Davis
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    With many thanks to Dr John Redwood for his hard work and absolute commitment to LEAVE.

    However, after all the shenanigans of the CONservative Party, I will never vote for them again. I will vote UKIP or refrain.

  36. ian
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Independent MPs is the only way to go for a civilized nation.

  37. ian
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    I fined that most politician are uncouth

  38. Anonymous
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    50% of the people who hate the EU are voting Out. 40% of the people hate the EU are voting In. Around 9% quite like the EU and the top 1% LOVE IT !

    I have yet to meet a single person who loves the EU like many of us love Britain.

    About the only real power our politicians have is to overrule the people if they dare vote Out of the EU.

  39. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Juncker helpfully knocks on the head the latest lie from Cameron:

    http://www.euronews.com/business-newswires/3210385-no-changes-to-britains-february-eu-deal-juncker/

    “BRUSSELS (Reuters) – European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said on Wednesday that there would be no changes to a package of measures that EU governments agreed with Britain in February aimed at keeping London in the 28-nation bloc.

    “British policymakers and British voters have to know that there will be no kind of renegotiation,” Juncker said of the deal on Feb. 20 that gave Britain an explicit exemption from the founding goal of “ever closer union”, offered concessions on the welfare rights of migrant workers and safeguards for the City of London financial centre.

    “We have concluded a deal with the prime minister. He got the maximum he could receive and we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no renegotiation, not on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned,” Juncker said.”

    • John C.
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

      Juncker has clearly written us off. I feel he would be pleased to see us go. We return the compliment.

  40. ian wragg
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    I see the head of the German CBI says they will force Merkel to sign a trade deal in case of Brexit. Extra tariffs are to no ones advantage.

  41. a-tracy
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    John, are immigrants from outside of the EU immediately eligible for all of our in-work and out of work benefits or not? Do we pay their children child benefit if they live in other Countries? Surely we should exclude anyone that hasn’t been resident in the UK for ten years or more?

    Why weren’t Remain asked, who will pay for all the social house building we will need to just house the people who are in severe overcrowding/multiple occupying in London presently as they start families of their own? How much is this expected to cost in increased taxation?

    As well as all of the money we paid to the EU, how much did we have to loan to Ireland and Greece on top. It’s ridiculous when we’re already up to our necks in debt, we were told we wouldn’t have to do that but we did, because we’re in the club.

    What were the levels of debt before we entered the EU (lets put the war debt in a separate compartment) compared to where we’re been at since we joined. If we’re having to loan money to lend to others whose credit is too poor to get their own, then be become like the parent who keeps topping up their extravagant Nineties children who can’t budget and spend like they live on Made in Chelsea.

    If we vote Remain tomorrow I suggest we close down all the news outlets that condemned Nigel Farage for repeating what they’ve all been telling us over and over again for years now so we just don’t see the repercussions of the decision. I suggest the welcoming committee telling us all what is good for us in the UK offering free refuge and opening our homes and communities just stop winding people up about it.

  42. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    The moral dilemma facing some Brexiteers:-

    Should you vote to Remain and ensure the Labour Party with cranky leadership never ever gains real power again in our Parliament even if achieving 630 to 650 seats OR vote Leave and give them a chance to peddle to our people their wealth-destroying and health-wasting sickening ideology of despair and ruin? Well, the very worst foreigners imaginable could…. in theory and if they really worked hard at it turn out just as bad as the Labour Party.
    The choice of Solomon. He would have us vote Leave. Only a true Brit would vote Leave.

    Reply This vote has nothing to do with the General Election in 2020. Vote for what you want. If you want an independent democracy vote for it – it may be your only chance.

  43. Maureen Turner
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Let us hope tomorrow is EU Leave Day and should we win this long awaited referendum then it surely has to come with a PM that looks first of all to care for our country. Serving two masters rarely works and our PM has been far too accommodating of Brussels to the detriment of the UK.

    From the outset of this campaign the PM has said leaving the EU would be akin to stepping off a cliff in the dark and went on through Project Fear to imply as an independent country we couldn’t make it on our own. This was pretty demeaning stuff but had he thought a little longer he might have remembered he has been our boss for six years so where does that leave his stewardship?

    Thank you JR for putting over the financial and economic case as to how we could be more competitive free from the constraints of Brussels. You’ve put a lot of time and effort into your blog over the past four months so I hope you get your deserved reward.

    • John C.
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

      Hear him, hear him!

  44. ale bro
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    I genuinely can’t see why the Irish referendum on the EU constitution won’t be repeated in the UK, i.e. if Exit wins, there will be another referendum / general election 6-12 months later to void the first result.

    It’s a case of Vote Out, Get In.

    • Anonymous
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

      Ale bro – After some punishment to make us vote the right way next time.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

      On the other hand if the Remain side wins then we will probably be relieved of the bother of another referendum, ever.

  45. oldtimer
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    The tone of the BBC debate last night as expressed by the Remain trio was depressing. It sounded entirely negative with charges of “lies” and “hate” to name but two examples. It has also become rather petty. I have a Vote Leave sign outside my house; someone today thought it right to pull it out the ground – it is now back up again. (Judging by the sudden appearance of previously unseen canvassers in the small town where I live, my suspicion is that it was a Conservatives for In hit squad). My daughter also tells me that in the past two days people have been pulling down or defacing Vote leave posters around Westminster in London. Shouting down the opposition was much in evidence last night. I noticed that Osborne both ignored and talked over Andrew Neill’s questions several days back when being interviewed.

    It is led me to conclude that the most effective form of interrogation of politicians in these situations is the format where a member of the public asks the question. This method worked well in the last general election (Miliband was duly skewered this way) and it has provided, for me at least, the most informative exchanges of the campaign. Head to heads between rival points of view quickly degenerate into yaboo points scoring which leaves us all none the wiser.

  46. Chris S
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Just think what Boris could have done with this through the campaign :

    We all know that the Elite of Brussels are determined to continue down the path they started down at least 40 years ago towards a single EU state. They intend to achieve that by subjugating the nation states, dividing the continent into easily manageable regions. Don’t take my word for it, go to http://www.cor.europa.eu/

    There you will find that there is already a structure with a committee of the regions with representatives of each region that come together.

    There are three layers of NUTS ( I am not joking here it stands for Nomenclature of territorial Units for Statistics)

    The delicious irony of this acronym is clearly lost on H. Junckers !

    For thirty years, implementation and updating of the regional classification was managed under a series of “gentlemen’s agreements” between the Member States and Eurostat.

    But, like everything in the EU, a gentleman’s agreement is not good enough so in 2000 the Commisssion decided to make it legally enforceable. Commission Regulation (EC) No 1059/2003 was adopted in May 2003 and entered into force in July 2003.

    I quote from the website :

    The NUTS classification (Nomenclature of territorial units for statistics) is a hierarchical system for dividing up the economic territory of the EU for the purpose of :

    The collection, development and harmonisation of European regional statistics

    Socio-economic analyses of the regions.

    The current NUTS 2013 classification is valid from 1 January 2015 and lists 98 regions at NUTS 1, 276 regions at NUTS 2 and 1342 regions at NUTS 3 level.

    Regions eligible for support from cohesion policy have been defined at NUTS 2 level.
    The Cohesion report has so far mainly been prepared at NUTS 2 level.

    Before you ask, the details for the individual countries are here :
    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/nuts/nuts-maps-.pdf-

    Britain has

    12 NUTS 1 Regions
    37 NUTS 2 Regions
    139 NUTS 3 Regions

    Yes, it’s true, the whole edifice is, well, NUTS !

    • Jagman84
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

      When we vote to leave, the EU will get a kick in the NUTS!

  47. Chris S
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    I used to have immense respect for John Major. To have come so far from such humble beginnings was a very fine achievement. One that, with the loss of almost all of our Grammar Schools, is unlikely to ever be repeated.

    However, today Sir John has finally lost my respect. We all know he has never been able to forgive or forget the arguments over Maastricht and, had I been a colleague of our host, I would have been proud to have been one of the “Bastards.”

    To describe us on the Leave side as “the gravediggers of our prosperity” was bad enough but it was a bit rich to go on to suggest that the Leave campaign was based on “half truths and untruths and misunderstandings.”

    He even went on to say that the Remain campaign, far from running “Project Fear”, had been running “Project Information” !

    Sorry Sir John, it grieves me to say that you’re credibility is now right down there with that of Osborne and Cameron.

  48. Chris
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    This exposes David Cameron for what he is:
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682306/EU-referendum-Brexit-Turkey-membership-talks-European-Union
    EU WILL hold talks with Turkey over Brussels membership NEXT WEEK
    BRUSSELS bigwigs will open membership talks with Turkey NEXT WEEK, despite David Cameron promising voters a completion of a deal would be DECADES away in a bid to urge Britons to back a Remain vote.

  49. Chris
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    It seems that Juncker is at least honest. It would appear that the eurocrats are deserting David Cameron:

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/682361/EU-referendum-Brussels-Jean-Claude-Juncker-David-Cameron-no-more-reform-Remain
    Major blow for Cameron as EU boss tells PM: There’ll be NO more reform if you Remain

    BRUSSELS’ top bureaucrat has slapped down David Cameron and warned the Prime Minister there will be NO more reform to Britain’s EU membership if the country votes Remain tomorrow.

  50. zorro
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Welll done and thank you to John for your exemplary output and campaigning during the Referendum campaign. The blog and references have really helped us in taking to family, colleagues and the public about the issues and the importance of this vote whilst highlighting the advantages of LEAVE and the risks of REMAIN. As the Chinese proverb says….’Do not despise the snake for having no horns, for who is to say it will not become a dragon’…. So from smaller numbers, we have become many to stand up for freedom and representative democracy!

    May I ask you all to raise your heads high tomorrow and vote with pride, but have eyes like hawks at the polling stations. Keep a note (mental or written) of what you see, and if there is anything suspicious or untoward in either the personnel or the voters be sure to report it.

    This must be, and be seen to be, a fair poll with no shenanigans going on….

    zorro

  51. john Robertson
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    I raise a glass to you John, for your informed blogs and campaigning for all these years.
    With a good wind we, after tomorrow, may be Brits again, but either way.

    The sometimes irksome, arrogant, creative, idealist, artistic, creative, inventive and all so very anti establishment Brits, could be Brits again.

    What very joy to be that pain in the elbow of the world again, that inconvenient teller of truth to the globalists and rapers of accountability. Rather than the sad bright flower that is being sucked dry by those that aren’t.

    If that happens I’ll raise a flaggon.

  52. Edward2
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Whatever the result after tomorrow I would like to thank you Mr Redwood for you brilliant articles which have informed the debate so well.
    I hope we vote to Leave
    Historic times.
    Wonderful just to be a part of it.

    Reply Thanks

  53. zorro
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Love it – Channel 4 – Come on Anna Soubry – with each word thousands being turned to vote LEAVE ??

    zorro

    • zorro
      Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

      Jeremy Paxman has no control whatsoever over this supposed debate!

      zorro

  54. Ian B
    Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    I feel absolutely sick with worry. I am a politics nerd, I always sit up all night at General Elections, but never have I felt such nerves as this. It’s like waiting for the good or bad news from a doctor!

  55. ian
    Posted June 23, 2016 at 12:50 am | Permalink

    Hello Mr Edward nice to hear from you.
    As we only have one independent MP in parliament, the speaker, I thought it would be nice to have more than one but as politician do not like to stand on their own without the backing of a party, so I do not think you have any think to worry about.
    As for this ref, all but one party is for staying in and most people vote with their party but as it a ref a lot of non votes will be taking part, so the outcome is unknown.
    For myself I will not be voting in the ref because I refuse to be intimidated by some politician who act like monkeys.
    I will do my voting after the ref with my feet if I do not like it, like millions and millions of other people since the sixty who have left this country to bring up their children else where.
    As for benevolent dictatorship you already have that, that why you need more
    independent MPs.
    I think your blog to john at 7.55 pm was very good go for me as well.

    Reply The Conservative party is neutral on this vote with most of its members in favour of leave

    • Edward2
      Posted June 23, 2016 at 8:20 am | Permalink

      Perhaps more independent MPs in Parliament would be better.
      Depending on the policies of these independents
      Some might be very extreme others might copy manifestos of the main parties or be one policy protest independents
      EG anti HS2 or anti local hospital closure or pro hanging
      But it’s up to the voters to decide.

      But first we need a Parliament free from EU control.

      PS
      I would urge you to vote. You have strong political opinions and you are very knowledgeable about the arguments and the options.
      Just the kind of person we all need to go out and vote!

  56. ian
    Posted June 23, 2016 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    I just like to say that every government has ratified every treaty put before them without public involvement when they had no need to do so and could of just stayed with the EEC and every prime minster you have elected has been pro EU and if win tomorrow for out with wet & mad with his mates wanting to crash your country into the ground because they did not get their way, I would be very careful in who you vote for after this.

  57. Robin Pearce
    Posted June 26, 2016 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Please sign & share to prevent us being duped into the EU again or anything else like it.Thank u

    (reference to a petition not currently available on the site quoted)

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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