Have nots and have yachts

Much of the commentary about the EU referendum has been designed to maximise antagonisms in our society. We are told that the young, the better off and the better educated voted to remain, whilst the opposite of the above voted to leave. This is an unhelpful caricature of the voting patterns.  This was  no simple case of the have nots defeating the have yachts.

On the Leave side were a number of rich and very successful entrepreneurs, and a number of important businesses. Business was split, though it is true more of the large companies run by the international executive class were for remain.  Whilst it is also true that university cities like Cambridge,  Oxford and central London were more for Remain, there were other university centres that were for Leave.  More graduates overall may have been for Remain, but there were plenty of well educated and thoughtful people voting for Leave. One of the features of the campaign was just how many long, detailed and academic papers I received from all over the country from people in business, in academic life and outside arguing for the Leave case.  No campaign could win with just Have nots, and get 52% of the vote.

Nor was it a simple case of the economic argument against the immigration argument as various spin doctors and pundits kept telling us. It was true that the large Remain vote contained many people with genuine worries about what might happen next. They had fears about interruptions or damage to laws, spending programmes, jobs and economic activity. Few of the Remain advocates wanted full membership of the EU, as they did not wish to join the Euro, the common borders and the common army.

It is now vital that all work together to ensure the minimum of damage and the maximum of improvement and potential from the changes the nation wants to make. The government should reassure markets, companies and others that sensible arrangements will be put in place so our prosperity is not reduced and the prospects of those on low incomes or out of work are improved. Most Brexit advocates have no wish to scrap good employment laws, no ambition to  stop funding universities and farmers, no plans to impose barriers on our trade. All EU citizens here are welcome to stay for as long as they wish.

It was not true that most Leave voters just wanted to control immigration. Yes, the idea of a points based system of migration control which would allow lower overall numbers was popular with many. Vote Leave did not put any numbers on what the new system can achieve or make promises on numbers, as that will be for the government to determine and to put to Parliament once we are free to have our own policy. The government itself has put numbers on what it wants to do, but has been unable to achieve it with current policies.

Most Leave voters I spoke to were principally concerned about taking back control. They liked the central slogan of Vote Leave. The understood that when the UK is again a self governing country it will not be all powerful, and will still have its problems. The difference will be that the electorate can lobby known individuals in Parliament for change, or can change the Parliament if it fails to do their bidding.

Wanting to preserve our current arrangements with the EU, including opt outs, was popular with some on low incomes as well as with the rich, some well educated and some unqualified. Wanting to go forward as a self governing country was also popular with many and varied people. It is now time to concentrate on what binds us as a nation. The new language of class hatred on either side is not helpful. Remain leaders should not scorn those who voted against them. You do not need a degree to cast a sensible vote. Leave  should not attack people for being successful who happen to disagree with Brexit.

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183 Comments

  1. formula57
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 5:17 am | Permalink

    Well said!

    It does occur to me that the (Brexit) government and others in the coming days ought to reaffirm the case for Leave to reassure voters that the correct decision was made. Obviously that should not be done in a manner that seems to continue the referendum campaign but surely can be cast differently, pointing to the opportunities we now have and perhaps also to some of the problems and risks faced by the rump EU.

    In that light, it is frustrating and annoying that we still have a government full of people unable to embrace the new realities. What, for example, was pro-tem Foreign Secretary Hammond thinking in announcing over the weekend that the UK was now less able to defend Gibraltar? Let us hope no Iberian Galtieri equivalents were listening!!!

    • JoeSoap
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 6:35 am | Permalink

      Indeed, with the BBC and C4 behaving funereally, one could be forgiven for thinking we had just lost a treasured asset, not an evil empire!

  2. Mick
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    I am getting abit cheesed off with all this talk about a second referendum, the inners lost full stop and except what the British public voted for, or you are going to plunge this country into civil war , and as for the Scottish lets have a uk referendum on them staying because I for one would vote to get rid of the mouning lot

  3. Ian Wragg
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Do I detect some backsliding John. We don’t want a different relationship certainly not the Norway option with free movement and paying the lions share of the budget.
    Out means that.

  4. David Webb
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    Fully agree.

    The Conservative Manifesto 2015 was crystal clear – “… we will ask the British people whether they want to stay in on this basis, or leave. We will honour the result of the referendum, whatever the outcome.”

    Keep calm and carry on.

  5. Simon Ian
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    “All EU citizens here are welcome to stay for as long as they wish. It was not true that most Leave voters just wanted to control immigration.”

    I’m looking forward to watching Leave’s attempts at explaining this to their supporters, and the nation at large, the coming days, months and years, against a background of constitutional chaos, economic decline and political meltdown.

    Good luck with that.

    • A different Simon
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:47 pm | Permalink

      The referendum was about sovereignty ; that all issues (including immigration) should be decided by parliament .

      Most people will accept that people who came here in good faith and have made lives here should be allowed to stay .

      Legislation does not normally apply retrospectively .

      The referendum was not a silver bullet , the onus will be on the electorate to demand and choose a better quality of MP than the party machines have been packing into the commons .

      EU bureaucrats are better than the dross in Whitehall so a program is desperately needed to recruit some talent there too .

  6. eeyore
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    “It is now time to concentrate on what binds us as a nation.” Yes indeed, one of the many tasks facing the new administration soon to be installed.

    It is normal at momentous times like this to turn to higher powers for inspiration and rededication. A solemn Service of National Deliverance at St Paul’s should do the trick. In the spirit of unity and reconciliation they so often enjoin on the rest of us, I suggest the two archbishops should be asked to officiate.

    That should give us all a great deal of innocent pleasure.

  7. Anthony Makara
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    Once again we see the Liberal Left Elites inventing class distinctions with the aim of creating social unrest. Always the motive behind the class thesis. The myth that social status is the driving force behind voting patterns has long been exposed as nonsense, yet the Liberal media push this poison in the hope of opening up fault lines and divisions within society. We see the same again with the EU Referendum. Everything from location to gender orientation has been touted as a defining factor in the decision making process. According to the Liberal Left only Blocks vote and the Individual is relegated to the status of unthinking Lumpen-electorate. The self-righteousness of people like Stephen ‘Jan 2008’ Kinnock in condemning those who voted for Brexit as being ‘”Ignorant” of the facts’ is patronizing and elitist. The ordinary, honest and decent people of our country are the bedrock who built this great land of ours and are the people I trust to make the right decision on the future of our Nation.

    • JoeSoap
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 6:38 am | Permalink

      Indeed. Like father like son.

  8. Caterpillar
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    The country (world) now needs to see the UK organise its cross-party, cross-sector Leave team, and be seen not to be headless (the PM and Labour Party are not helping this). As you wrote yesterday, get the legal ducks lined up, and get the key objectives aligned with the country:-

    Mobile labour (and I believe as I said yesterday with a minimum wage multiplier to protect the lower quartile), not mobile benefit seekers.
    UK sovereignty with home(s) rule.
    Out of free market / customs union (so the RoW is easier to trade/negotiate with) but free trade.
    Timetable to fisheries policy
    International postgrad treatment etc.

    And reuniting across the social / opportunity etc divides (something that Cameron and Corbyn should have been/should be keen to contribute to). And getting the infrastructure projects started/

  9. Antisthenes
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    I could make the case that is was the hard of thinking that voted to remain. Of course depending on ones bias (the MSM, politicians, experts, every vested interest and bureaucrats have that in spades) any case can be made for the reasons behind actions. No doubt all voters voted the way they did for a variety of reasons and they were a very mixed bunch on both side of the divide. Naturally young people would be more for remain because they are still at the idealist stage of their lives. The EU would suit their way of thinking as it’s concept is hard to fault it is it’s practicality that is the problem. Great in theory but very bad in practice as are most goals that seek to create someones idea of Utopia.

  10. David Cockburn
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    It is a dangerous moment as so many of the levers of power are still in the hands of Remainers. Despite the commentary there are many well placed, university educated, powerful and experienced people who are Leavers and must now grab the opportunity to set the nation on a new path.

  11. APL
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    JR: “Much of the commentary about the EU referendum has been designed to maximise antagonisms in our society.”

    Yes, I’m afraid ‘project fear’ is still going strong.

    [fear] TURMOIL IN THE STOCK MARKET [/fear]

    We haven’t even done anything on the political stage, yet.

  12. Dame Rita Webb
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    Busy listening to Osborn squirm at his press conference. Why has he has not been removed? If he is concerned about maintaining “confidence” why has he not resigned? You cannot have much confidence in someone who doubled the national debt, failed to eliminate deficit spending and told a load of lies about what would happen last Friday.

  13. Roy Grainger
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    The only politician on the Leave side who can effectively reach out sections of the Remain vote is Boris, compared with other Leavers he is very popular amongst the young and his election as London mayor shows that he can even attract a 5-10% section of the Labour vote. Gove may be more to the taste of Leavers here (and me) but there is genuine hatred of him from version sections of society and he would be divisive. A Boris/Gove ticket would be perfect. For Cameron then to conspire and plot against Boris and Gove is foolish, he seems to be more motivated by petty personal considerations than the good of the country. Of the other candidates Osborne would be by far the worst with no support from either side.

  14. Adrian Daghorn
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    Excellent analysis, why is this not being covered on the news?

    The Conservative party needs to quickly come to its senses and stop destroying itself by talking down the huge opportunity we now have, or by calling people who voted for it racists.

    Please try to silence Anna Soubry and Michael Heseltine with their ridiculous claims of racism and hopelessness.

  15. Lifelogic
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    The more I listened to the arguments from the remain and leave sides the more it seems to me that the leavers were people who had thought it through and knew rather far more about the issues. They knew more about the damage the EURO was doing to most of the countries in the south of the EU. Many also knew how much anti EU feeling there is in many other EU countries. They mainly loved Europe but hated the EU. I for example have an Italian wife, a second home in France, businesses that export to the EU, studied to Cambridge and them Manchester Universities and I am currently in Malta on business.

    We are not little Englanders, just rational people who like Europe and the rest of the World too, but want real democracy, free trade and sensible cooperation.

    If you love Europe (and think it all through) you want to leave the EU as it is damaging its members so much. You want democracy not serfdom, you want a government than can decided on levels of immigration and everything else. A government acting in the EU’s interests that is elected and can be kicked out.

    The remainers seems to be people who just had more of a a gut feeling that they wanted to be part of a larger group. They seems to think that EU bureaucrats are some sort of higher beings who knew best and had our interest at heart. This despite all the vast historically evidence to the contrary. Nearly everything they have touched has been a disaster. CAP, fishing, migration, the ERM, the EURO, the EU enlargement, energy, the endless red tape, the EU courts …….

    I find science and maths graduates more for out than arts graduate a part from a few bought people perhaps receiving large EU grants. The BBC is a hot bed of gut feeling art graduates or bought people.

    Look at the list of the “intellectuals” on the remain side – people like Eddie Izzard. Polly Toynbee.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:13 am | Permalink

      Surely the odds on Borris for PM are a steal at about evens or slightly better. Who else is there? May was too cowardly and has destroyed her own credibility by claiming we had control of our borders. She would not be as good electorally either.

      Boris was brave, right and is a proven winner.

  16. Lifelogic
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Why is Osborne still in place it hardly help confidence?

    He has spent much of his time saying Brexit supporters were economically illiterate. This from the may who has tax rates well above the laffer point, increases tax almost every day, increases tax complexity almost every day, rats on IHT, runs a huge deficit, a huge increasing public debt and a massive trade deficit. He even want laws preventing the low paid from working!

    He should certainly know a bit about being economically illiterate.

  17. James Matthews
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    “It was not true that most Leave voters just wanted to control immigration.”

    No it isn’t. It is true though that most leave voters do want immigration controlled and that for most this was one of the primary reasons for wanting “to take back control”.

    If the leaders of the leave campaign now seek to ignore this and fail to act on it, which is what I fear you may now be joining others in preparing the ground for, it will be another epic betrayal by leaders of the people the who supported them. The Remainders who are now loudly claiming that leave voters have been duped will have been proved correct.

    I guess we should be used to this by now, but it will make the current public perception of politicians look naively benign.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 7:19 am | Permalink

      Take back control of of laws, contributions and immigration is what the Labour heartlands expect now they have voted. UKIP will be rubbing it’s hands at the latest developments
      Learn from the rise of the SNP

  18. Jerry
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    “It is now vital that all work together to ensure the minimum of damage and the maximum of improvement and potential from the changes the nation wants to make.”

    Indeed, but non of that can happen now for at least three months, the country is now politically moribund, if not also economically, there is already talk about investment and recruitment decisions being put on ice. We need a quick A50 in other words, the world has not stopped spinning.

    “They liked the central slogan of Vote Leave. [..//..] when the UK is again a self governing country it will not be all powerful, and will still have its problems.”

    Yes but if Brexit doesn’t mean exit that slogan will have been a lie, signing back up to the EU’s “Four Freedoms” means obeying directives etc from the eurocrats, worst we will now have little if any input into what those directives are but we will still have to incorporate them into our domestic law. Brexit is fast becoming what many thought it was all along, to win meant getting Cameron out of office, to loose meant unseating Corbyn, and meanwhile the speculators make a mint at the nations expense again.

    “You do not need a degree to cast a sensible vote.”

    Indeed one doesn’t need to have a degree to cast a sensible vote but one does need to have the ability to understand and weigh up the real issues and thus come to a decision, for far to long this country has allowed emotion and not the facts rule how we vote, that did not change last Thursday – sadly – as an aside, had it done so Scotland would have voted for Brexit!

    • Jerry
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:22 am | Permalink

      Regarding other options to using A50, would there be a parliamentary majority for anything, whilst A50 doesn’t appear to need the explicit consent of parliament (surely that was given within the Referendum Bill, otherwise the Act was less use than a toothless and claw-less tiger), but repealing the 1972 Accession Act would, I do not see europhile Tories voting for it nor Labour.

  19. JoeSoap
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    The commentary you are referring to has been fanned by the BBC-types, as a last-ditch resort, with the underlying anti-democratic theme that you should only be eligible to vote if you have an IQ above x, and anybody above y years old must be too senile to think straight. Labour has basically turned on itself both with this theme and as a party, and is as good as dead. Their votes, in the north particularly, are there for the taking by UKIP.
    Surely, finally, we will have the realignment we have been waiting for, where many trades people, self-employed etc. will rightly be those in the vanguard. The Conservative Party can never again be just the representatives of big business, big government and the EU., but instead needs to fight tooth and nail for those votes now.
    That must be the real watershed.

  20. Philip Kitching
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    It is not helpful when Politicians are airing on TV, their utter disdain for the mandate to leave the EU from British people.
    Whilst the chancellor was giving interviews to reassure business and investors.Lord Heseltine , was continuing the bitter rhetoric, wholly negative outlook to business and investors…scaremongering and insinuating the electorate are stupid.

    It will have been noted by the public, he announced gleefully how MP’s are plotting to circumvent the will of the people.

    It’s the intention they’ll be no support from Remain inclined MP’s. The path is clear.Deride the MP’s carrying out UK’s exit deal and when a deal is brought before Parliament.MP’s will vote NO and force a new referendum to Remain in EU.

    Labour MP’s are plotting a coup to get rid of their elected leader and put in place a Pro-EU leader for the purposes outlined.

    Mr Redwood..The majority of British people woke up on 24/06/16 enthusiastic , full of hope that having regained Sovereignty over our nation..and secured the heritage of future generations. That we would move forward as a free and Independent country.
    I cannot see how we achieve this when we have MP’s in place who are intent of ignoring democracy

  21. Anonymous
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    The continual break-down of voting patterns on regional and age basis is divisive and deliberately antagonistic. We did not need to know these things and should not know them.

    This was a national referendum and the nation voted Out. End of.

    We must not be allowed to go the way of Ireland, Denmark and France’s abandoned referenda results.

  22. brian
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    Control of immigration was a big factor for many Leave voters. It now appears that Leave leaders say that not much will change. Many voters will be disappointed if not angry.
    The Leave campaign was fundamentally dishonest in this respect. The scare tactics regarding Turkey was the campaign’s Project Fear which tipped the balance of the vote. It will be many years before Turkey will join the EU assuming France and Cyprus let them.

    • A
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 3:27 am | Permalink

      Brian: immigration ‘ not much will change’.

      Not necessarily true. If Britain left the EU and joined the EEA on the same basis as Lichtenstein, we can have access to the singe market and National control of immigration. An option not widely publicised, as every other EU member would run for the exit too

  23. Richard1
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Sensible stuff as ever, let’s hope people take notice. A colleague of Angela Merkel, Mr Fuchs, was just interviewed on Today. He said the EU would like to see a quick deal on trading arrangements, as uncertainty is damaging for business on both sides. He agreed that access to the single market was possible, although said payments would be necessary, as made by Norway and Switzerland. He agreed that some controls on free movement would be possible. Nothing in this is surprising and it is entirely reasonable from the EUs point of view.

    I agree we should not trigger Article 50 – we are clearly in a stronger negotiating position if we hold off. But it makes every sense to start informal exploration of a possible deal, which may have the tremendous confidence boosting consequence of an early announcement of agreement in principle. It is clear the EU wants a sensible deal – let’s get on with it and focus on talking to sensible people such as Mr Fuchs who are elected representatives of Governments and allow unelected bureaucrats like Messrs Tusk and Juncker to fulminate in private until they have calmed down.

  24. Lifelogic
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    I do not however have a yacht, unless you include my children’s sailing dingy I suppose.

    I also note that those in favour of the EU include most of the religious leaders too. There is also a strong positive correlation between climate alarmists, pushers of “renewables”, lefties, people who dislike of fracking, dislike cars trucks and planes, pushers of magic money tree economics ever more tax and ever more government and regulation. The usual dreamers in other words. The less they know and understand they more they feel they are right.

    It is essentially the BBC “thinkers” and Libdims (from whatever party). The BBC is still pushing the deluded doom and gloom agenda on the Westminster Hour last night and again today.

  25. Tedgo
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    I read in the online Telegraph that our new found freedom from the EU is about to be compromised. The latest thinking is a modified Norwegian model which accepts EU migrant flows, though going back to pre-Maastricht rules that guaranteed only the right to work, rather than the concept of EU citizenship.

    This would keep Northern Ireland and Scotland on board, but more importantly to the compromisers (naturally), would preserve the City’s viability by safeguarding EU passporting rights for financial services.

    As a leaver the only way I might be able to stomach such an arrangement, would be for the City to accept a Tobin tax on all financial trading, paid obviously to the British Government.

    The tax would be used both to pay for our EU contribution and plough money in to our services and pensions. Money would also be directed to deprived areas of the country to get some real development going. Naturally the tax should be set high enough to make the City’s eyes water, to buy off the 17m leavers.

    Such an arrangement would have to go to a referendum as required by existing law.

    Really though it would be a terrible compromise as it does not give us full control of migration nor, in any sense, give us back full sovereignty.

    I am still for leaving proper.

  26. turboterrier
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Very good post John

    The biggest trouble we will have is combating Project Fear still being driven by the Bull***t Broadcasting Company.

    As a national broadcaster listened to throughout the world what in earth do they think they are doing? Some of the tone of their reports bordering on treason.

    Rolling out yesterday men like Hestletine, Blair and Major to mention just a few, is the “establishment” trying to regain control to eventually reverse the referendum vote by creating a situation where we have to have a re-run.

    Their hope must be that EU really makes thing difficult for our Leave Team and cast doubts on the whole country’s future if we remain out.

    The Leave Team must be assembled within days so as to be able to format a agenda that will indicate to the country that there are positive gains being made. We understand that it cannot happen in five minutes but the country is very nervous driven by doubt, ably supported by the remain panel on last nights QT.

    The Remain has only one plan and that is to create a situation that will result in a second referendum or getting Westminster to derail the whole process.

    With Labour turning in on itself and tearing itself to pieces, SNP waiting in the shadows with their daggers drawn it is essential that things are moved on at a pace before the country is well and truly stabbed in the back just so that a few people can achieve their own personal goals.

    Already some politicians are talking about a GE in November. This will not help the leaving of the EU. Too many politicians are against us and I feel that we have to place our trust in the new leader and the Leave Team to really drive the process forward.

  27. Richard1
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    It also makes every sense to explore 3rd party trade deals in parallel. Any announcement of such deals in principle to come into effect immediately on Brexit would both boost confidence and strengthen the UKs hand in negotiations with the EU.

  28. Ian Wragg
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    It’s rather amusing all this talk of a rerun of the referendum.
    If the result had been reversed the BBC etc would be hailing it as a resounding victory for Britain.
    We the Leavers would have accepted the decision and got on with life.
    We would have watched and laughed as our payment to Brussels relentlessly increased and we were further marginalised.
    Democracy has been served and the Remainiacs should shut up and that hectoring Scot be put back in the box.
    Let her have a referendum and take her silly wind machines with her.

  29. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    Throughout the campaign I noticed that on social media in particular but not exclusively those who wished to see the UK leave the EU were stigmatised as either stupid or extremist. This was not confined to anonymous contributers but included those with reputations as economists, journalists, politicians and others. Since the result, this vitriol has been cranked up quite disgracefully encouraged particularly by the broadcast media who have shown pro-EU bias throughout.
    The Prime Minister has done nothing to help this situation having reneged on his pre referendum pledge to continue in office and implement Article 50 immediately after a vote to leave. It is incumbent on you and your colleagues to ensure that the democratic will of the people as expressed in this referendum is fulfilled. It is clear that there are many determined to thwart that will at whatever cost to the country.

  30. agricola
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Having voted for leave I think it incumbent on leave to state what they wish the future relationship between the UK and EU to be. My view is as under.
    There is trade, sovereignty, and much peripheral detail that stems from it. On trade it is in Angela Merkel’s interests and all other EU exporters that trade continues unhindered. She is the prime mover in the EU, she will not wish to make her political position even more difficult than it is by alienating her own industrialists and causing further unemployment around the EU. We also wish to continue trading unhindered. This also includes financial services.

    Sovereignty means retrieving all law making processes to the Westminster Parliament, and ensuring that UK courts are supreme.

    EU Immigration.
    If citizens of the EU wish to retire to the UK and are financially self sufficient they are welcome. If they wish to work in the UK at a legitimate occupation they are welcome. I do not wish to encourage beggars, pickpockets, ATM scammers or any other criminals. If their criminality manifests itself after entry they should be deported, no hesitation. Retired and working EU citizens already in the UK should not suffer any form of adverse pressure or legislation whatsoever and this attitude should apply to all UK citizens retired and working in EU countries.

    NI/Eire Border.
    This I would leave as it is. I would however institute proper border controls at seaports and airports serving the Emerald Isle. We do need to know who is entering the UK via this route. At present we do not.

    Health.
    The reciprocal health arrangements for holiday makers and residents should remain in place. This is paid for by the citizens own country of nationality so no national health service administering it loses out financially.

    EU Payments to the UK.
    From the gross UK contribution to the EU of about £20 Billion PA a certain amount came back as discretionary payments under the CAP and to many other organisations for research at universities, local government, selected projects and the BBC. These should be continued for at least the life of this government. It always was our money, in future it will not have to travel.

    Fishing.
    Traditional waters should be re-defined in accordance with international norms. Reciprocal fishing agreements should be honoured. As I understand it there is much toing and froing on both sides at present. We should be in control of who fishes in UK waters and how they conduct themselves. We will need to boost fishery and border forces to effect it.

    The £10 Billion Bonus.
    This is the money we pay to the EU and never see returned. It should be used to reduce the pressure on local communities and services for housing, the NHS, and education in immigration hot spots.

    Labour Relations Law.
    All existing LRL emanating in the first place from the EU should be honoured in UK law.

    Scotland.
    We should ignore the opportunist bleatings of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP. Leave it to them to decide and pay for any further referendum to leave the UK. I suspect the Scots are too canny to be seduced from the deal they have with the UK.

    Government, Conservative Party, and EU Negotiations.
    We should ensure that those in control of UK government, the Conservative Party, and the re-negotiation are totally on board as leavers. This should also include any Civil Servants involved in the re-negotiation. Additionally the services of Daniel Hannan, Nigel Farage, and those in the Labour Party who had the conviction to put their heads above the parapet should be solicited. We do not want any fifth columnists on board.

    For what it is worth, the above is my view, I will be interested to read what others think.

    • Narrow shoulders
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

      A good start, I would take this opportunity to change legislation to ensure that no-one coming to these shores from abroad can claim in work benefits or claim a house from the taxpayer.

      Come by all means but do not expect subsidy if it proves difficult. It is difficult for all.

      If your children can not speak our language then they should not attend our schools too. We should do away with the EAL allowance which dilutes the pot available to spend on all pupils.

  31. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    JR, watching events unfold I now have a real fear that if Cameron doesn’t put in the Article 50 notice soon then it may never go in. Delay gives the bad losers more time to organise themselves to stop it, and if they can they will.

  32. Bert Young
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    People in the North of the country who experienced floods and turmoil got on with their lives , mopped up the wet and faced the challenge of “back to normal”. This resilience and fortitude has been a characteristic of our people for as long as I can remember – and that’s quite a long time !.

    Post Brexit we can look forward to rejuvenating ourselves under our own laws ; if we make it difficult then it is our fault ; no longer do we have to turn aside bent cucumbers and vacuum cleaners that don’t suck up the dirt . Unelected bureaucracy produced all sorts of constraints we did not want or voted for – as someone prodded me the other day pointing out also the high cost of energy and things like expensive wind farms .

    A new start is happening starting at the very top . It is the place to get right alongside an agreed strategy that looks at all the time scales . Sensible experienced heads are necessary to look at all the details of where we have come from and where we need now to go ; it is a time for calm and determination . Once the plot is agreed it needs to be “sold” to the public through a strong case of motivation and resolve .

    The “noise” from above the border has to be constrained ; we are a United Kingdom who can stay that way and make it prosperous for everyone – divide and rule was a tactic that never won in the end .

  33. alan jutson
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    Amazing how people can be labeled in such a way, usually by the ignorant and uniformed, but it will pass in time, what will not pass with time is the near corrupt and undemocratic political system we are seeing reported that appears to be trying to work against a democratic vote of the people.

    MP’s need to be reminded that they work for us, to reflect our views and not to ignore them completely.

    It bemuses me that Corbyn is now being taken to task for not persuading the so called Labour supporters to vote for Remain in enough numbers.
    Out of all of the politicians he was one of the few who did not really get involved in the so called promised doomsday scenario either way.
    He may not be a good leader, he may not have held strong views about the EU, and I think him and his type would be a disaster for the Country, but that is not a reason for the present action against him.

    I had thought that Cameron’s statement to delay Article 50 until we had a new Prime Minister was sensible, I now feel that this is giving time and fuel for those who want to try and frustrate the result of a democratic vote.

    Article 50 should be enacted now, yes I know it means less time for negotiation, but we need to underscore the fact that we have voted to leave the EU, and that is what will happen, full stop.

    Time also for the Party system of nominating MP’s for chosen areas to stop.

    Parliament needs to produce a rule that no one can stand in any area as an MP unless they have lived in that area with a primary residence for 5 years.
    We will then have local MP’s representing their own people in their own areas, chosen by their own local associations rather than the parachuting career politicians into a so called safe seat from elsewhere, and who know absolutely nothing about the area, its people or their thoughts and desires.

    Time now for real Parliamentarians to stand up and be counted.

    We voted out, that means out.

  34. John B
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Interesting that politicians supporting Remain (most MPs apparently), and those clamouring for a further referendum, don’t seem to like democracy. I suppose that is unsurprising considering that they don’t appear to have problems with the anti-democratic EU.

    I don’t agree with there being a second referendum but, if there is to be one to decide whether we wish to overturn the Brexit decision, and to vote to re-join the EU, it should be on their own suggested basis viz. 75% of the electorate must have voted and at least 60% of those voting should vote to get back into the EU.

    Not to Remain supporters taste? Didn’t think so!

  35. Antisthenes
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Problem not having a Brexit plan. Need one post haste. At least cobble together a list of what is to change. For example taking fishing grounds back, controlled immigration by stopping welfare and free healthcare for newcomers (cant stop immigration but can reduce it considerably). The list can be enormously long and it will give heart to the voters of all persuasions when they realise how much we have to gain. Need to address the ECHR problem so that we can stop undesirables and deport the ones already here (right to family life what about my right to live without fear of them).

  36. Liz
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    The hysteria being generatd by some media outlets is unbelievable. They mis predicted the result and now claim to know with absolute certaintity how different sections of the population voted and why: such arrogance. Social media seems to have generated an unpleasant intolerance towards anyone with a different point of view to their own.

  37. Chris S
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    As the owner of a Yacht, albeit a thirty five year old motor yacht, I sit somewhere in the middle of all this.

    However, I am alarmed that we are already seeing so much backsliding from people on the Leave side, This seems to be the case with Boris this morning and even such committed people as Dan Hannan over the weekend.

    My view is that we need to be primarily positioned to address world markets rather than the EU.

    Not only does the Rest Of The World (ROTW) already represent almost 60% of our trade, it is the sector that is growing whereas Europe is not. This situation is not going to improve for the EU.

    There will inevitably be turmoil in the Eurozone, not because of Brexit, our decision will do nothing more than concentrate the minds of the electorate, show them that escape is possible, and assist to bring it to an early conclusion.

    It will be because of the absolute necessity for there to be full fiscal integration for the Euro to have even the remotest chance of survival.

    Unfortunately for Brussels and the single currency, there is absolutely no appetite among the people of Europe for any of it. This is particularly the case in the key larger countries, France, Italy and German.

    Then there are the second tier countries like Denmark, Netherlands, Finland, Austria and the Czech Republic, most of whom are likely to call referenda in the next 2 years. Sweden is also on the periphery of this group.

    There is therefore no point in entering protracted negotiations over access to the single market because that will inevitably involve conceding some form of FOM and big contributions to the EU budget for the priviledge.

    Boris and Co need to remember that these are precisely what Vote Leave campaigned to stop and, crucially, what the people voted against.

    We would be far better off going for our own unique form of free trade deal. Given the potential benefit to both sides, it should be a better, tariff free deal than Canada and a lot easier to negotiate than the stalled US one where American businesses are so wedded to unbridled capitalism that they won’t even recognise our right to retain a public health service.

    Foregoing the dubious benefits of the Single Market might mean that we lose a few jobs from the city but it would only be a small proportion and we will get these back, and more, when the Euro inevitably fails and there are quite a few more currencies to trade.
    The end game may be as many as four Regional Euros and yet more individual National currencies.

    Finally, a reasonable performance from Osborne this morning. I only hope he is not harbouring thoughts of running for the leadership, a campaign that is likely to get very ugly if he does. When Boris inevitably wins, I suspect that Osborne will have used language that will have effectively ruled himself out of any job in the new government.

  38. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    When we were opposing the EU Constitution and then the Lisbon Treaty my view of the proposed “exit clause” was that it was defective and could be used by other EU governments to keep us trapped in the EU, for example by creating enough delay to allow a change of government to reverse the decision to leave. I did envisage that bad losers among our own population might play a role in those attempts to keep us in the EU, but I did not envisage that some of those who said they wanted to leave would actually assist them by agreeing to inordinate and unnecessary delays in putting in the required notice.

    We have nothing to gain from months of discussions with the other governments before putting in the Article 50 notice, all it does is provide our opponents with a greater chance to organise themselves to prevent it happening.

    If the nominal two year period for negotiating and agreeing the new arrangements proves too short then it can be extended; I find it hard to imagine any of the other governments refusing to agree to an extension and thereby causing economic damage across the EU by having the UK leave without any agreement.

    If the government insists on delaying the process then I wonder if there is any possibility of getting a postdated notice drawn up now and placed in the hands of some completely trustworthy person or body with an irrevocable instruction to send it on to Brussels on a certain date in the future.

    I don’t wish to stir up panic but it is clear to me that there is a real danger that having won the referendum our opponents will still defeat us by rendering it nugatory.

  39. wab
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    As usual what Mr Redwood says is technically correct, but is missing the point. The data I have seen (and Mr Redwood does not allow links so leave it at that) says that 63% of people aged 65+ voted to leave and 66% of people aged 18-24 voted to remain. Yes, those figures are not 100%, and Mr Redwood seems to believe that therefore we should conclude nothing (he apparently lives in a black and white world). Well, instead we should conclude that old people (who will not be around to live with the consequences) have overwhelmingly voted to leave and young people have overwhelmingly voted to remain. The reason why the oldies won is that 65+ had 83% turnout and 18-24 had 36% turnout. As usual, the oldies get their way because they vote. (His comments about other groups is similarly flawed.)

    • Patrick Geddes
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:54 am | Permalink

      I hope the poll figures you are quoting are more accurate than polls during the referendum campaign which got it wrong again and again.

      We are now moving from Project Fear to Project Whinge.
      Remain need to realise they lost and no amount of picking over who voted and the demographics of the vote will change it.
      We all have a vote once we are over 18.
      Each vote is of the same value.

    • Cheshire Girl
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:00 am | Permalink

      Well, apparently, only 25 percent of 18-24 s turned out to vote. In my experience most older people feel it is their duty to vote. Y ounger people ( including those in Government) don’t remember a time when we were not in the EU, and therefore dont believe that we could run this country ourselves. They are entitled to their opinion, and older people are entitled to theirs. I guess time will tell who is proved right.

    • a-tracy
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      Are you joking wab?
      The 18-24 year olds were repeatedly told to register and vote, they were given an extension, their colleges and universities were giving them regular reminders and prompts, if only 36% of them were bothered to turn out then they made their choice not to take part in it. Many now are being whipped up by their politically active friends.

      No one knows how each 18-24 year old voted NO-ONE because the ballot is secret and many wouldn’t admit to it to their age group or a pollster because of the backlash.

    • Mark
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:08 am | Permalink

      There are also rather fewer young people entitled to vote in the first place, there having been not so many births in recent decades, and with only a proportion of the young immigrants having a voting entitlement from their own citizenship.

      I think it is fair to point out that young people are perhaps not really reflecting their own well thought out views, but rather, the views of their teachers and lecturers, which these days are dominated by a left wing mindset. I’m not sure that teachers and lecturers with a narrow range of political opinions should command so many proxy votes.

      • Mark
        Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:47 am | Permalink

        I should add that degree education is not really the marker it is bigged up to be. Few in older generations got a formal university degree, yet for many the qualifications they did achieve are the equal of today’s dumbed down degrees that are now so numerous, and moreover teaching was not confined to left wing indoctrination. Having a degree is therefore more or less a marker for being young and brainwashed.

        You will note that the prominent campaigners for the Leave side are well educated.

    • Jerry
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      @wab; The figures you cite appear very similar to the widely circulated figures that the broadcasters have been using. The problem is that there are wide gaps in the age ranges quoted, whilst anecdotal evidence suggest that many people aged 50 to 65 voted for Brexit, there are a lot of people in that “baby boomer” generation, these people “will not be around to live with the consequences”, and for a good number of years, at a time when their incomes become largely fixed due to retirement along with (perhaps) long standing retirement plans.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      Oldies get their way because they vote – wow democracy working on the opportunity to participate! I think some people were actually voting because they felt EU decision making was not participative enough.

      BTW as neither a youngy or oldie, in deciding my middly vote I did consider (1) the lack of opportunities that Europe is providing for its young, whilst some of the rest of the world grows and (2) that over the longer horizon forcast of the treasury we might actually expect a scenario where economic structure is totally different (E.g. AI service employment displacement) and transparent representation will be needed to cope with these futures.

    • Graham
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:23 am | Permalink

      Sounds like very sour grapes to me. The principle of voting has not changed and applies to all our elections.

      Didn’t see you post when 4 million plus UKIP voters were effectively disenfranchised at the last UK elections but the SNP gained many seats with a much lower poll.

      Also perhaps it just proved that the EU indoctrination within the educational establishments has worked and that youngsters have been helped into subservience- a tactic used on the continent to go effect in the 1930’s but probably not part of today’s curriculum.

      If we do have a petition for a second referendum then I’m sure that there will be a petition for a 3rd etc

    • Know-dice
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:32 am | Permalink

      ” As usual, the oldies get their way because they vote.”

      That’s how democracy works in this country.

      Would be interested to hear your solution to this potential anomaly?

    • Handbags
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:41 am | Permalink

      When I was between 18-24 I voted for the EU as well (or rather the EEC as it was then) – but, as with all things, experience of the real world changed my view.

      I grew to realise that I’d been manipulated by a mixture of one-sided education, partisan media and fashionable opinion – and that my view of ordinary people, the country and democracy were entirely wrong.

      When today’s 18-24 year olds grow up they’ll realise they’ve been manipulated too – and they’ll thank us for taking back their birthright.

    • Ken Moore
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      So the 66% of the 18-24 age group had such strong convictions that only 36% bothered to vote. Get over it….it’s called democracy. I’m not in favour of socialism or a totalitarian Eu State..really what part of democracy do the bitter wing of the Remain side not understand ?
      Perhaps we should turn the world on it’s head and have younger, less experienced people doing all the top jobs and making all the big decisions to make a better world….why not appoint a school leaver to be the governor of the bank of England …

      • Ken Moore
        Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:56 am | Permalink

        There was a manchild on BBC news this morning saying it was unfair that his grandmother voted as she would probably be ‘dead in a couple of years’ . Really this is embarrassing and shameful that the remain side are encouraging this rotten attitude..

    • rose
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      If two thirds of 18-34 yr olds did not vote, why are they and the media inciting hatred against the old people who did? This incitement would be classified as criminal if it were against a different demographic group.

      As it happens old people were not being selfish in the way they voted. Presumably they are more likely to be housed and no longer have a job. So in expressing concerns about the increase in the population (half a million last year) they were clearly thinking ahead to the conditions for the next generations. How will they get jobs and houses and what will the environment be like? They themselves would probably gain from cheap European labour as they age. GDP is not the same as wealth per capita and as the population has increased we are now poorer in that respect than Ireland. Old people were more aware too of how the EU was developing, politically and economically, and more likely to remember what happens in countries which have a very high rate of unemployment, and where there is more than one nation in one land.

      As to the assertion that old people have robbed young people, the reverse is the case. Old people have had no interest on their savings for a very long time now. Young people have made capital gains from near zero rate mortgages and loans which were undreamed of in the old people’s prime.

      I have also been very worried by the thousands of threats to kill Mr Farage, and by rentamob turning out to break up his meetings, compelling him to have a bodyguard. The rentamob outside Boris’s house was ugly too and there were two lines of policemen to hold it back. But none of this leftwing nastiness, much of it young, is examined by the media, just accusations of racism against 17 million people and their speakers who voted for independence.

      In our family, all three generations voted that way, all having been to university, and all having worked it out for themselves.

    • Pud
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:34 am | Permalink

      Have you considered that perhaps the “oldies” voted on the basis of their greater experience? For example, an older voter might remember that John Major told us the EU believed in Subsidiarity but over the years the older voter has in fact seen that the EU seeks instead to control more, not less. Is it really a surprise that someone old enough to know that the EU and pro-EU politicians have misled on multiple previous occasions votes on the basis that they are probably being misled again?

    • alan jutson
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:36 am | Permalink

      wab

      I fit into the older group you highlight.

      In common with many of my age group with whom I have discussed the EU before we voted, the vast majority of us agree that we will not get much benefit out of leaving, as the benefits will take too long to be realised for us, so we voted with the interests of our Children and Grandchildren in mind.

      The vast majority of the World is not in the EU.

      We as a Nation have given countless Countries their own independence from our colonial past, and by and large they are success stories we should be proud of.

      In contrast 40 years ago it turns out that we gave up our own independence to join the common market at the time, but we have now at last gained our own independence back again after such a huge mistake.

      Some of us may be in our elder years now, and many of us may have thought we knew all we needed to know at 21 years of age all of those years ago.
      All I can say is when you are over 60 you too may come to the conclusion and reflect that when you were younger perhaps you did not know it all at the time either.

      Those under 40 years of age have known nothing other than the EU, so it is no surprise that they are concerned about the future, so let me reassure you that a good life does exist outside of the EU, we just need to elect the right politicians to represent us correctly, and run the Country as we as a population wish it to be run.

      One thing is certain, we can at least now hold our own politicians to account for their
      own actions and decisions.

    • ian wragg
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

      This is how democracy works. If the young were so passionate about staying they should have got off their collective posteriors and voted.
      According to the data the age 40 was when the Leave vote kicked in so this is hardly an old persons vote. See Lord Ashcrofts analysis.
      We voted out because we have experience of poverty after the wars and lived through the Cold War.
      The EU is turning into (an autocracy ed) and we want no part of it.

    • formula57
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      Old age is no bar to expressing an opinion through casting a vote and the experience and wisdom enjoyed by youth does not mean necessarily that their opinion is any more valid.

      Old people may find it easier to vote for the general good as they see it, rather than for their own narrow benefit.

      Young persons may wish to wake up to the idea that every vote counts, always assuming that such a disturbingly radical notion does not cause them to rush for cover in their nearest safe space.

    • Lesley
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

      Maybe a lot of us realized that we made a mistake in voting to stay in the previous European Y/N vote.

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

      If people can’t be bothered to vote they can have no complaints if the result isn’t what they would have liked. Those old people for whom you seem to have disdain have had to live with the consequences of EU membership for 43 years.

    • Deborah Herron
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

      That’s not strictly true though is it? Only 36% of young people voted in the referendum so it’s 66% of 36%. Hardly a ringing endorsement.

    • majorfrustration
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

      This really is a load of cobbles – a vote is a vote. However if you wanted to buy me out
      happily vote remain if I am thereafter allowed to leave UK and take my pension free of UK tax

    • William
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

      The ‘young’ couldn’t be bothered to get off their arses and vote. You really think we should listen to their whining?

      You learn the hard way. Get over it.

    • graham1946
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      ‘As usual the oldies get their way because they vote’.

      What a silly comment. Of course those who vote can influence things whereas those who cannot be bothered obviously cannot. Don’t need statistics for that little gem of truth. Don’t vote, don’t complain, its pretty simple.

      Anyway, how do they know these statistics? I thought it was a secret vote, known only to those in the polling booth. I wasn’t interviewed when I came out like I usually am at a GE where invariably those enquiring are told to get lost. Lies, damned lies and statistics – and pollsters.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

      You are assuming, based on no data at all, that the 64% of young people who didn’t vote at all in fact if forced to vote would have split in the same way as the 36% who were committed enough to vote. That is just nonsense. Anyway, in the Labour Party Corbyn was voted in with a majority of the young vote and they are proceeding to demonstrate that it is just fine to ignore them and try to chuck him out.

    • longinus
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

      How many of the 64% aged 18-24 did not vote as they were undecided?
      Elections are always lost by those that never vote.

    • Paul
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      The way you write this, you’d think it was difficult for the 18-24 year olds to vote.

      You also have to allow for the skew in the youth vote, of those that could be bothered to vote, they are disproportionately in “remain” areas. The young and disaffected in Hartlepool don’t often bother.

      Incidentally 66% in a binary vote, while very strong, is hardly “overwhelming”. One hears this about London and Scotland, which are actually 60/40.

  40. forthurst
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    The main political parties need to be deep cleansed of those who are not interested in governing themselves; these inadequates are not fit for purpose in the new dawn of democracy that beckons us. This action needs to be a grassroots initiative because the central parties, heavily infested with multi-culturalising, English-haters (metropolitan elite) wanting to dismember our country and put its body parts under the control of the Brussels regime, have been been parachuting disloyal apparachiks into safe seats, hence the extraordinary discrepancy which now exists between parliament and the people.

    One could only speculate on what the outcome would have been had not the Leave campaign been hamstrung by the barrage of falsehoods and scare stories emanating from CMD and his lieutenants and all the ‘great and good’ of domestic and alien provenance, the inept ‘Vote Leave’ campaign and the deeply troubling Jo Cox (death, words left out ed)despite being milked to the very last drop and compressed into the last week of the campaign.

  41. AndyC
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    This may be a naive question, but how do we actually know the age and intellectual status of who voted, and how they voted? It’s a secret ballot. If it’s all extrapolated from opinion poll data, it’s pretty worthless!

    • Mark
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:13 am | Permalink

      Lord Ashcroft did a very large poll – over 12,000 people. It’s unlikely to be far out, with a theoretical statistical margin of error of under 1%, and the benefit of knowing that it has to match the referendum outcome to pass the first smell test, and to match other known population characteristics such as age and geographic distribution, the outcome of the 2o15 election etc.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:02 am | Permalink

      Indeed why do the remainers think that most of the younger generation wanted to give away their democracy (and their children’s democracy) in perpetuity to an anti democratic, embrio, failed superstate? Some may have but far from all did.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:05 am | Permalink

      Indeed why do the remainers think that most of the younger generation wanted to give away their democracy (and their children’s democracy) in perpetuity, to an anti democratic, embrio, and failed superstate? Some may have perhaps from trusting the BBC or schools or Eddie Izzard types but far from all were taken in,

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

        Lifelogic. Quite right. My daughter is 31, her husband is 32 and is a quarter Pakistani. They both voted out. Not all young people wanted to stay in and not everyone with foreign relatives wanted to stay. As has been said, if you don’t vote then don’t moan. Let’s face it, many youngsters and older people thought the European football was more important. I wonder how many thought of a postal vote before they went to support England or went on holiday? It was always foremost in my mind. There is no excuse for not voting.

    • oldtimer
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

      The only survey I am aware of is that conducted by Lord Ashcroft. It is based on interviews with just over 12,000 voters after they had voted. It is worth looking at. Link here:
      http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/06/lord-ashcroft-how-the-united-kingdom-voted-on-thursday-and-why.html

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

      No it is just the spin the BBC and remain has tried to put on it. If you voted remain you are clearly uneducated, dim, working class, very old, a racist, a little Englander or something.

      Nothing could be further from the truth. We are sensible big wide worlders.

    • Paul
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

      There is data regarding areas, and they are quite small, not far above polling station level. I’m a school governor, and there is a thing called “FFT Data” which is information used to estimate our school’s ability – so that schools that are in very challenging areas aren’t sanctioned for that.

      Obviously it doesn’t work on a 1:1 level, but it will be statistically reasonable.

  42. Javelin
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    True leaders can think strategically. I see no strategic thinking going on.

    Project fear by Caneron, Osborne, Tusk, Junker and numerous others showed these people are second rate tactical thinkers and not strategic leaders. In some cases like Osbornes emergency budget nothing but an operational knee jerk. Their arguments were based on weekly needs and emotions and not principles and purpose. They did this because there was no strong strategic argument for the EU. These people found themselves in a position they had created for themselves that was strategically weak.

    Even Merkel who has a strategic vision for Germany and has had to make the country suffer to put it in a strategic position – dipped her hands into project fear.

    Those who fought this referendum strategically won and now need to push that strategy forward.

    As I said before that after the referendum not a lot will change. The EU will not want a lot to change. Whatever the UK gets will be the position of everybody who leaves the EU. So the EU will be creating the model for EU partners that will also hold for Turkey, Ukraine and some of the PIGS. The EU may for example say the UK is in a unique position because it speaks English and is forward in the business cycle so high immigration is a problem and that our legal system is different so sovereignty is needed. Just tactical thinking.

    The UK will gets a points based migration. The UK will get its sovereignty.

    Tactically however The EU also wants this for Ukraine and Turkey – so tactically this could be an opportunity not a threat.

    It is very important to think strategically and not get bogged down in tactical details for which their is never any clear logic.

    The U.K. And EU can salvage a strategic vision for “trading partners” that can include Turkey and Ukraine which will help the EU fear of mass migration from Turkey and Ukraine. It fits in with the EU tactical approach

    It is important to include Norway and Switzerland in this strategic vision of a trading partners rather than just have ad hoc arrangements around Europe.

    I would if I was Boris I would arrange a strategic vision summit with all these non EU countries to set out a strategic vision of what it is to be a trading partner with the EU. I would arrange an agenda that gave all these partners the opportunity to give the EU a chance to meet their tactical needs.

  43. Caterpillar
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    I apologise as I am probably writing what many others are, and filling up Dr Redwood’s blog, but…

    Is Mr Cameron staying in place as a blocking game against leavers, and enabling the problematic Mr Osborne to remain in a position of influence, it being the next PM’s task to appoint a new cabinet? The PM ought not play with the country’s future simply to rebuild Mr Osborne’s chances of a run at PM as revenge against Messers Gove and Johnson. None of this is going to help the country unite, nor establish a genuine leave implementation.

  44. Lifelogic
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Some woman on Start the Week this morning was suggesting that fruit and veg from Europe will get more expensive as they may put large tarrifs on them!

    Where do the BBC get this endless supply of misguided people from! There is a world market for food if they increase their prices or tarrifs we will buy elswere and they would lose out. So they surely will not. Imports outside the common tariff bariers should reduce in price not increase at all. More daft propaganda from the BBC even now!

    Why do these people not understand markets at all?

    They also seem to constantly demonise sugar – but all carbohydrate turns to sugars anyway perhaps a bit more slowly. We just need to eat less with lots of variety and move a bit more. It is hardly rocket science.

    So Osborne has been found at last. Still running the economy down though. He thinks he has fix the roof while it was sunnny though so we can cope with the Brexit! Does he know what his current debt and PSBR and the current trade deficit are I wonder? Does he understand how appaling many public services like the NHS, roads, education, criminal justice actually are in the UK? I do not think I would want to employ him as a roofer or anything else!

  45. Hope
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Unfortunately Osborne May and Camern started this smear and nasty tone from the outset. You might recall it being reported how Osborne stated no serious minded person wanted to leave. You might also remember the smears on those of us who disagreed with Cameron and Osborne, including supporters who got them in office, Tory associations and rural voters. Your comments are wise but directed to the wrong audience. You might recall how Cameron was telling his MPs to ignore us! The elite in your party need to be ousted if your party will ever be trusted again, i.e. Cameron, Osborne, May, Fallon and Hammond. Javid and Crabb and the likes have no way back who could trust what they said? Start with your party and the image you want to portray to the public.

    The media, Sky, ITV, BBC and newspapers were disgraceful throughout the campaign and the media appears to be on a relentless campaign to talk he country down or get us to change our minds. The Eau now want to bully us into doing what it wants not what we might want in the best infest of the country. We now need politicians with back bones who give clear direction to civil servants what needs to be acheived. Immigration in exchange for access to the single market will go down down like a cold cup of sick to the public. The nonsense needs to stop before the spinning gets off the ground. Stop telling us what we think, and be alive to the public mood.

  46. Shieldsman
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    The vote was to leave the EU and was won by a simple majority, democratically achieved.
    To leave means we withdraw from the Lisbon Treaty and all its Articles.
    Included in the Treaty is article 45 – Freedom of Movement. Every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.
    There can be little doubt the mood overwhelmingly within England is to control immigration. Was it not one of the reasons David Cameron gave us the Referendum.
    Our commitment to you: Our plan to control immigration will put you, your family and the British people first. We will reduce the number of people coming to our country with tough new welfare conditions and robust enforcement.
    We will: keep our ambition of delivering annual net migration in the tens of thousands not the hundreds of thousands. Control migration from the European Union, by reforming welfare rules. Reform the workings of the EU, which is too big, too bossy and too bureaucratic
    When immigration is out of control, it puts pressure on schools, hospitals and transport; and it can cause social pressures if communities find it hard to integrate,
    No to a constant flow of power to Brussels. No to unnecessary interference. And no, of course, to the Euro, to participation in Eurozone bail-outs or notions like a European Army.

    This is what I and 52% of the United Kingdom voting electorate made their cross for.

    It is no good Hillary Benn and many MP’s saying we have to be in the single market and accept freedom of movement, freedom of movement has been rejected by the Labour heartlands.

    Our disenchantment with the EU would never have arisen if the EEA had stuck to being a Free Trade area and not a political union.

    Having invoked Article 50 her Majesties Government must negotiate trading agreements free of political ties.
    Withdrawal of right to reside does not remove visa free inter European travel.

    Do you agree?

  47. A different Simon
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    This referendum has shown that , in general , the best educated quartiles belief in the extent of their own superiority and infallibility is unjustified .

    Their arrogance could never entertain the possibility of the result being close , let alone going against them so most of them predicted it wrongly and they are now in denial .

    This includes MP’s , betting companies , financial market participants as the corrections show .

    Perhaps the funniest was heads of budget airlines which decided to do an email drop in the early hours of 24/June/2016 when early results made it look like Remain was going to win – and subsequently threw their toys out the pram by saying they were going to stop new investment in the UK !

    Leavers have had to put up with being denied satisfaction for over 20 years .

    I think it’s a bit rich of remainer’s to call for us to be magnanimous and gracious towards them after they have suffered only 2 days of a feeling of powerlessness .

    My brother works for an manufacturing company which sells worldwide and the office was in disbelief the day after .

    People were asking how such a thing could happen and decided the blame lied with letting people who were “too stupid to vote” vote .

    One wonders what they would deny what they perceive to be the underclass next , the right to breed maybe ?

    I haven’t rubbed it in but the remainer’s superiority complex convinces me that for the sake of democracy , we all have a duty to “press home” the victory .

    • A different Simon
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:22 am | Permalink

      P.S.

      Despite the panic in the MSM and predictions of armageddon from the chancellor and Independent B.O.E. , the response from the financial markets has been fairly muted .

      A correction was to be expected due to most participants forecasting the result incorrectly .

      So far we have not had a sell off like that which followed the reactor catastrophe at Fukushima .

  48. fedupsoutherner
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Couldn’t agree more John with your comments that all ministers on whatever side must get behind the country now and work for the betterment of the country. Anna Soubrey really must keep quiet. She is a troublemaker. More from the calm, collective people would be appreciated like Gove, Ian Duncan Smith and Grayling. Reassurance is what the public needs now.

    Hestletine was speaking this morning and mentioned that there would have to be a second referendum. Is he serious and do you think this will have to happen John? He said it will be put before parliament and then another referendum will take place. Could it be that they hope things are on a downward spiral and that the public will then vote to stay in? Please tell us what your views are on this point John. We have all worked hard to get this result and we don’t want it overturned. We may have to go through a tough period but surely nobody thought it would be plain sailing? If we stick it out the future will be brighter.

    • MickN
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      Get down to the bookies and lump on England winning the Uero16
      Should Iceland beat them tonight we can start a petition to get the match replayed as we don’t like the result

      • MickN
        Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:46 am | Permalink

        Sorry that should of course say Euro16

    • Mitchel
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:01 am | Permalink

      Anna Soubry should be sacked immediately not just for working against her brief as a trade minister but wandering around London like an escapee from Mr Rochester’s attic and ranting to any media outlet that will have her.

    • Jerry
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:19 am | Permalink

      @fedupsoutherner; Yes I suspect Lord Hestletine was being serious, for the same reasons why some wanting Brexit (politicos as well as some who post comments on this site) were talking about a second referendum were when they thought they might loose. As Lord Hestletine implied, any second referendum doesn’t need to be a referendum, it could be a GE, with manifestos spelling out how each parties would enact a Brexit, or indeed ignore the result (if they dare).

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:29 am | Permalink

      Dear fedup–I am hoping I am missing something but I for one have no idea how the majority in the Commons can be overcome. I hope this is just my ignorance but all that good stuff one is taught at one’s mother’s knee about delegates vs representatives comes to mind; not to mention the people unarguably wanting capital punishment but MP’s reckoning they know better. What is to stop exactly the same thing happening with Brexit? Allowing delay (= long grass) would be crazy. And, Please, no Mrs May or any other Remainiac.

    • Mitchel
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

      According to the Spectator,Oliver Letwin is being put in charge of the Brexit unit.Not the ideal appoinment….to say the least.

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

        Anna Soubry and Oliver Letwin!!!!!!! What a joke.

    • stred
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

      Well if we have a second referendum, perhaps we could make it even more certain that Tarzan and the other great intellects like Sir John understand that leave means leave by only allowing British citizens to vote. As predicted, after the disgraceful interference during the referendum by the Irish PM, the nationalist counties of N.I. voted remain and the Australian PM interfered too( ex Goldman Sachs by the way). Here are two young Aussies complaining that we voted the wrong way and just don’t understand much. The young lady also voted for her brother, who was here for a while and went home. http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/brexit-what-does-it-mean-for-australians-living-in-europe-and-the-uk/ar-AAhCfcw?ocid=spartandhp#page=1

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

      Well the delay in activating Article 50 certainly supports Heseltine’s position doesn’t it ?

    • zorro
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

      It is as I predicted, the unpatriotic wreckers are talking down the economy and will not accept the result. They are not prepared to work for the future, and fundamentally lack respect for the majority which voted leave. Again, what are they trying to provoke?

      I am hearing from people (remainers) at work that the vote should not be respected and that a technocratic government should make decisions instead of ‘ignorant’ people. The people saying this clearly have a high opinion of themselves…..

      zorro

      zorro

  49. stred
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Some such as Sadiq Khan shout that people on the Leave side are pushing ‘hate’ and they are accused of racism. Most voted because of the numbers which are leading to overcrowding, congestion, waiting lists etc and others because they do not wish to hand over government to a USE. Some may be racist but one thing Sadiq needs to realise is that the British are mainly the same race as Europeans. The poster that they say shows brown faces to whip up racism actually shows few as the Syrians are racially similar to Israelis or Cypriots. The only British who can be racist towards Poles, Romanians or Syrians are British of a different race.

    I used to tell everyone that Sadiq was OK and Londoners would notice little difference. Nothing makes people turn to hating others more than being shouted at and accused falsely of hating.

  50. Eleanor Justice
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    We, the only sensible people left in the UK who voted to leave the EU now know (what we have always known) how the elite (if you will pardon the expression) think of us.
    Like the lady who mocked the white van man and the English Flag that said it all.And the thought of it being mostly the English who GOT IT RIGHT has tipped them over into madness.

    • alan jutson
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:41 am | Permalink

      Eleanor

      The disgusting sight of those who hired expensive boats and shouted insults at fishermen in the Thames recently, when all the fishermen were trying to do was outline the problems of trying to earn a living in their industry I am sure also helped the leave cause no end.

    • acorn
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

      “Why the Leave victory is a great outcome. The class struggle is back! [Google that, from Bill Mitchell]. Who would have thought. After years of being told by the likes of John Major and then Tony Blair that “the class war is over” (Blair) and the we now all live in “the classless society” (Major) the working class has fought back, albeit under the motivation of the looney, populist Right rather than a progressive left, who remain a voice for capital.”

      Sadly, both Osborne and Cameron were using the same script today. They are still pushing neo-liberal austerity, which will be the death of Brexit, and they know it. The 99% will find this out just before the next general election. Everything will be blamed on the Eurosceptics; Osborne and Cameron 2, will be elected triumphant.

      Be aware that Washington DC, is not at all happy. Brexit may cause the designated battle zone for the next USA v Russia physical contest, to fragment. This will hamper the single command flanking missile system, from being deployed along the EU eastern border.

      John Kerry, US Secretary of State, has already been poking his nose in with the Eurocrats today, in Brussels. He and the CIA have to kill Brexit, TINA!

  51. a-tracy
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    The Conservatives need to get together and sort out the new leader to be working alongside David Cameron during his notice period, attending the important meetings along side him and stop internal arguments, surely you all discussed this together prior to the vote. Cameron certainly seemed to know what he was going to do if Leave took control and didn’t waste any time.

    The Labour Party’s coup might leave your party thinking that at least it takes some of the heat off you to give you more time, no it really doesn’t! Most people I know don’t like coups and their views being ignored whilst the political classes argue amongst themselves while there is real work to be done.

    I just don’t understand why Jeremy just keeps promoting new faces, surely there are some stalwarts who would have the Labour party’s back and take on senior portfolios like Kate Hoey, Frank Field, and Gisela Stuart that would be formidable or couldn’t Jeremy control people like that? OR is it that shadow positions aren’t important and it doesn’t matter if they’re absent for weeks? We need a strong conservative team and a strong shadow team at the moment not a bunch of politicians being politicians, its like watching the 300 film.

  52. Lifelogic
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Charles Moore in the Telegraph today is excellent as usual.

    Osborne need to go very soon indeed. Appoint Boris as PM and get on with it asap please.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:20 am | Permalink

      And indeed Boris in the Telegraph too today:-

      “There is every cause for optimism; a Britain rebooted, reset, renewed and able to engage with the whole world” as he says. There is indeed, I am very optimistic for the UK, for my businesses, my children, even for improvements within the sclerotic EU, as others follow and it finally has to address its very many faults.

  53. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    https://euobserver.com/uk-referendum/134037

    “At Tuesday’s summit, EU leaders could be at odds over the length of the delay for “consideration of the consequences”.

    France in particular has said the process should be launched soon.

    “The emergency is the respect of article 50. There is no reason to play cat and mouse,” French foreign minister Jean-Marc Ayrault said on Saturday.

    One of the criteria over which to decide when to launch the process will be the negotiation for the new relationship between the EU and the UK.

    “One principle is clear: there will be no negotiation on the future of relations before the notification,” the EU official said.”

    If

    “there will be no negotiation on the future of relations before the notification”

    there will be no point in delaying the notification, other than to allow the bad losers more time to work to prevent it ever happening.

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

      If we simply repeal our Act of Accession to the Lisbon Treaty, we don’t have to worry about Article 50, do we? We can be out by April 2017. Sovereignty is something to be siezed; no need to touch our forelocks.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted June 28, 2016 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

        How are you going to get a majority in either House to pass the repeal?

  54. Wingsovertheworld
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    I disagree, in part. You’re right in saying the voters were made from all facets of society (with a 72% turnout, how could it not be?), but there is a common thread here. Inequality. Mostly, wealth inequality. How to get it, hold it and where to spend it. Bare with me: I had the feeling during the campaign that there is a large undercurrent of exaspiration with people in Government giving their ear to corporate lobbyists, to wealthy individuals or to minority groups and ignoring, or being oblivious to, the growing disenchantment from the quiet majority. Immigration, the money we send to Brussels, hospital beds, school places, are all just symptoms of an underlying cancer. Wealth buys power and distorts our governments to serve the needs of the few over the needs of the many. It is not a popular feeling that wealth trickles downwards. Quite the opposite. In that sense, the EU (which I propose Remainers, incorrectly, think has answers for this), was the fallguy. As you rightly say, ” Take control” was the winning message here. But control of what? People want control of our public servants. They want to be heard. They want to feel like parliament listens and tries to understand them. I have come to the belief that wealth inequality grossly distorts the ability for parliament to do that. This is something not endemic to the UK, but affects the West in general. Going forward, we need to tackle wealth inequality or those disenfranchised voices will find other places to vent their anger toward the establishment.

  55. Lifelogic
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    Anna Soubry is still peddling the “your racists” line can we not have a period of silence from this finger up the bottom and rather likes it person?

    We are not against immigration we just want some quality and democratic controls on it. Indeed it is the EU good rest bad immigration that is clearly racist. Please grow up a little.

  56. a-tracy
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Alex Salmond in the Telegraph on Nicola “She’s the only politician over the last few days who looks like she knows what she’s doing and is setting a clear course,” he said. “The negotiations that she is opening across Europe with European leaders, with European institutions, while Westminster is in chaos, are to try and establish how do you secure Scotland’s position on Europe, that is the mandate that she received form the people last Thursday.

    Nicola didn’t convince the public of the UK, she was on our TV in England more than Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn (who was critical of Corbyn but where was he?)

    Do you really want Nicola Sturgeon setting the political running whilst our English , Welsh and Northern Irish representatives bicker amongst themselves.

    • a-tracy
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      Why doesn’t someone ask Nicola if she knows how much trade Scotland does with the RUK? How much extra per head her people get to spend, does she really think she will get that from the EU?

      What is the cost of ‘free trade’ with the EU over just accepting their tariffs?

      All of these companies that operate in the UK, taking their profits out of the UK to the European and offshore HQ’s, if we are out of the EU does that mean they have to pay UK taxes here after we leave?

  57. Lifelogic
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Dianne Abbott too joining with the dreadful Soubry with this line on Question Time! Yet they are the ones supporting the racist current system of immigration.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

      Lifelogic. Sorry, but they are both a big embarrassment. They insult the views of ordinary hard working people. They betray the very people they are supposed to be representing. The workers of this country. The people who would give up their lives for their country. What is it about MP’s that seem to belittle people from council houses who are hard working and love their country? We don’t need it.

  58. M Davis
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Today, there is an excellent article about the procedure of getting out of the EU, on Richard North’s Blog (I realise that some people do not like him but what he has to say is pertinent):

    http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86120

  59. Anonymous
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    The young are being deliberately set against old. I have read comments this morning “We young will be able to out riot you old.”

    Doubtless true. I am in no mood to fight phsyically. But I have warned my pro-EU son that he will be cut out of my will and have his university assistance stopped if I find him disrespecting this democratic decision.

    We really are going to have to be that tough.

  60. Javelin
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    For me the referendum was a moral argument.

    Whether the economic benefits to the minority in power was justified by the loses to the majority not in power.

    That was why the remainers resisted a democratic vote.

    For me this referendum has the same moral shape as Apartheid in South Africa.

    It is easy to be shocked by that claim and denial can be seen as a first reaction.

    But if you look at the actual reality of Apartheid – lack of economic opportunity being pushed on less wealthy people by people who think they are better than them then you can see the parallels. Builders, plumbers, cleaners, factory workers all having their wages undercut for the benefit of the wealthy. That is the structure of the actual situation.

    The feelings today of the remainers are probably not as far forward as to those on the beneficial side of Apartheid when it was abolished. After all South Africa was boycotted for years and the abuse was more explicit.

    But the remainers need to understand that their policies and decisions by the minority for the minority are of the same nature as Apartheid. Will it involve a degree of shame, pain and denial when it is recognised. Yes – and it needs to be recognised if the Labour Party of the intellectual haves and the working class have nots is going to exist.

    But I think there will be two types of denial – the first based on superiority. This is what we see now. A continuation of the “leavers are stupid” narrative. The second denial will be based on shame. The second denial will be because the remainers must accept the pain of the shame of accepting the reality they created.

  61. Joanne Jones
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    Please, as my MP, please, please highlight the increasing number of racist attacks that are now happening all over the country and ask that they are condemned and remind people that they are illegal. I’m frightened for my fellow humans on this island. I don’t want our children to grow up in this kind of society. Today it feels like we have gone back 50 years in our attitudes towards each other.

    And, why are we now going to have to wait three months for a new PM? Surely the requirement for stability for the country is worth working through the summer for, economically, socially and politically

    Reply I and others urged a faster timetable for the leadership election. We have now brought it forward so there will be a new government at the beginning of September. I do condemn nasty racist attacks and gave helped put in laws to allow prosecution for criminal acts.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 5:39 am | Permalink

      And that new government will still not take the effectively irreversible step of putting in the Article 50 notice that we are leaving the EU, making sure that the Remain side has even more opportunity to find ways to block it.

  62. Dioclese
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    I find it infuriating that two thirds of the yoof of today couldn’t be bothered to vote and then complain that the oldies have sold them down the river.

    If you didn’t vote you have no right to complain about the result. You need to grow up quickly and get a grip on reality. The entitlement generation at it’s finest…

  63. Anonymous
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    We’re not leaving the EU.

    The Remains are going to win. There is going to be a second referendum and we will vote in next time.

    It’s the way the EU works and we’re seeing it for ourselves.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 5:37 am | Permalink

      Correct, and some of the leaders of the official Leave campaign will work with the de facto leader of the Remain campaign to make sure that we never leave. We can see that is already starting to happen, we are being betrayed.

  64. Peter Stroud
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    I am finding most disappointing the sour grapes now being demonstrated by the Remain side. But the ludicrous suggestion that we hold another referendum is almost unbelievable. Of course, we must remember that holding multiple referenda, until the ‘right’ answer emerges is the stuff of the EU great and good. It is now up to the government and Conservative majority to roll up sleeves and get down to work.

  65. adam
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    I guess there are fewer old people in Scotland

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

      Adam. No, there are quite a few older people in Scotland. It’s just that a lot of younger and older people have been brainwashed by the SNP. They will go where they think the biggest bail out will be.

    • turboterrier
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

      adam

      When you actually live in dictatorship Scotland you will get a better idea how they think.

      A grizzled old Scottish joiner told a group of us on site on Friday when talking about the vote:-

      You white settlers understand nothing about Scotland, The first word in the Scottish alphabet is the F word, Funding. Nothing gets done unless it is with someone else’s money, That is the reason for the remain vote. They do not understand that the money they get back is a portion of what they have paid out.

      That just about sums it up.

  66. Owen Francis
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Results with various breakdowns for a large sample >12K taken by Lord Ashcroft polls on the day of the referendum for people who had voted are available on his website. I wish in online comments that young people would turn their attention a bit to the young people who voted leave and those who did not vote. Not all old people voted leave.

    I think a pensioner (like me) in our system has as much right to a vote as an 18-24 year old. Any suggestion that young people must live longer through the consequences and therefore somehow their votes should be weighted more strongly, completely misses the point that there is no way to know that remain was the correct decision. If it were not then perhaps the leavers are saving the young remain voters from themselves !!

    Of course we will never know for sure, for it not possible to predict the future or re-run history multiple times as an experiment.

  67. Javelin
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Interesting to see Deutsche Banks Jim Reid echoing my comments that the referendum is “class war” that of those who voted for remain the social groups were according to him as follows

    57% AB
    49% C1
    36% C2
    36% D

    However I do not think portraying this as class war is helpful.

    I think a better way to approach this is to see it as a referendum on morals.

    As Jim Reid says – this vote was inevitable. “Globalisation, immigration, poor economic growth or a combination of them all its quite clear from this and other anti-establishment movements that the status quo can’t last in a democracy. Eventually you’ll have a reaction”

    This is a VERY important lesson for those who want to continue with mass immigration.

    Mass immigration is an immoral act in the same way that ethnic cleansing or Apatheid is an immoral act. The only difference is the former is passive aggressive and the later is aggressive.

  68. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    The wearisome autopsy by the Remain Camp of the Referendum result should now stop. Enough. Cathartic though it may be for certain now embarrassed and disappointed opinion-makers in the political and media world we have, nevertheless, had a positive result for Brexit.

    Education is not always a clue to correct thinking or wisdom. One remembers Ex-President Clinton donkey years ago being pulled to the ground by state troopers protesting against the Vietnam War also the now US Secretary of State John Kerry also falling victim to the same as he Ho Ho Ho Chi Mihn-ed it in Washington State demonstrations. There was Labour’s Ex-Shadow Chancellor Jack Straw as National Union of Students Leader doing the same in his “other” anti -Vietnam War demonstration in 1967. Tariq Ali, President of the Oxford University Union was his militant comrade leading the other demo..
    The tide of human thought ebbs and flows as shown in Barbra Streisand’s movie “The Way We Were.”
    In free countries like the UK and the USA we can and do think what we want, be what we want, change our minds to the opposite time and time again and fight with all our might knowing what we think, now, within ourselves, is always 100% right.

  69. matthu
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Interesting point of view from the comment pages of one of our national newspapers:

    Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

    And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten … the list grew and grew.

    The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

    The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

    Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

    Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

    If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished.

    If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over – Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession … broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

    The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

    When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” … why? why not the formal ones straight away? … he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

    All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 5:13 am | Permalink

      Our only hope is that the continentals refuse to negotiate until the notice has been put in and press for it to be put in straight away. Cameron has already reneged on what he said during the referendum campaign and we cannot rely on Johnson or Gove to do it unless under pressure, as basically they do not want to leave the EU.

      • a-tracy
        Posted June 28, 2016 at 8:49 am | Permalink

        Cameron will go down as an all time ratter on his promises, not to be trusted. Denis the more I think about it the more Junker should stay in position and put pressure on us to press the button quickly, your concerns are becoming my concerns.

        There is no need for a leadership contest, just appoint a leader this week and get on with it, you must have all thought about this scenario, which is why the decietful Teressa May was left out of the campaign BUT you will be making a MASSIVE mistake to put such a weak politician in charge of the UK, the Conservative party will not be forgiven.

        The papers trying to rubbish Boris now, disgusting, Boris and Gove are the victors champions, get on with it.

  70. A different Simon
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    I was never convinced by Boris’s leave credentials .

    Whilst the UK must of course co-operate with mainland Europe , I am already getting the impression that nothing much is going to change “internally” .

    Perhaps the main outcome of the referendum will be to force British-EU integration underground and out of sight .

    Boris , Ms May and Osborne cannot be trusted .

    Just look how Ms May has increased surveillance to turn us further into a police state .

    Can anyone think of anyone better than Priti Patel for PM ?

  71. ian
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    The new isle of man of Europe.

  72. Old Albion
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    You need to get to work in Parliament JR. As every hour goes by it becomes clearer that skullduggery is afoot. The ‘remainiacs’ are plotting to get this vote overturned.

    • hefner
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      Are you so sure it is the Remainiacs or is it the unprepared Leavers already reneging on various topics (NHS, restricting immigration) and not being able to define a proper quick path out? Some of the Leavers, JR included, have been at it for 43 years. To me, it is clear they only play a marginal role in the present ongoing Leave discussions.

      It would be rather depressing if the actual leaving only happens because of pressure of the 27 EU countries.

  73. Lee
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    “The difference will be that the electorate can lobby known individuals in Parliament for change, or can change the Parliament if it fails to do their bidding” yet 57% of your Wokingham constituency who voted, voted to remain. Perhaps that 57% need to lobby you to do their bidding.

    Reply The vote was not counted by constituency and my constituency includes parts of West Berkshire, and does not cover large parts of Wokingham Council area. I was not my constituents representative in the Referendum, as they all had the same one vote each that I had. They represented themselves in this example of direct democracy.

  74. forthurst
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    There is not a moment to lose; the Brussels regime is telling us that in order to continue to have a massive current account deficit with them, we must pay for our access to the Single Market with free movement of persons, presumably including rapists and murders, as usual, thus exposing the fact that the Brussels regime is quite simply a loathsome expression of the Coudenhove-Kalergi batshit crazy plan for the peoples of Europe, whose genius created the greatest cultural legacy and scientific advances that have been a gift to the rest of humanity, rather than about trade and friendship which is all that sane European peoples ever wanted.

    Formal negotiations with the Brussels regime should not be considered until they drop their demand for free movement; in the meantime with a declining pound, we need to move rapidly so that we do not have to pay even higher costs for our fish and farm produce contingent on the CFP and CAP which we should hence totally ignore. Furthermore, we need to start talking to countries like Japan which like us is an island monarchy and who can supply luxury cars which are just as good as the overpriced German ones.

    • forthurst
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

      …in other news, Oliver Letwin will act as a filter on potential options for Brexit to ensure that the Norway option of free movement of people we do not necesssarily need or want is they only one considered.

      • A different Simon
        Posted June 28, 2016 at 9:54 am | Permalink

        An ex-Labour spin doctor told me that for much of the time Nulabour were in power , Mandelson was the real prime minister .

        Tony Blair was hardly seen for about a year in his final term of office . Cameron has at least been visible .

        Sounds like you have also heard the word on the street is that Oliver Letwin is the one who has been deciding policy .

  75. majorfrustration
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    JR you did a great job but the Parliamentary Leave group must crack on and be seen to be taking action – at least seeing what the Government fallback plans were and engaging with the EU – initial talks about talks seems to be par for the course. Junckers is only cracking the whip cos if he didn’t other countries would want to leave. The voters that supported Leave and those voting Remain need to be satisfied that the political class are not just faffing around.

  76. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    So now it turns out that according to one of the leaders of the Leave campaign a vote to Leave the EU was not actually a vote to Leave to the EU, it was a vote to Remain in the EU and seek further negotiations and then have a repeat referendum.

    I am disgusted, JR, utterly disgusted; and my hope is that the other EU governments will put a stop to this by insisting that we must put in the notice that we intend to leave.

  77. Jumeirah
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Mr. Redwood: very heartened to see your robust defence of your position as our MP against those in our area calling for your resignation.
    You have served us and continue to serve us in a way that we will always be grateful for and appreciate and long may that continue.
    Not only have you done so locally but also Nationally as the Referundum result has proved and it is your duty to act with others to ensure that the ‘will of the MAJORITY of the people ‘ (and people should REMEMBER that) is carried out and push yourself forward please amongst your (Leave) colleagues to ensure a balanced, reasoned way forward to our future success. THAT (and continuing to represent us in Wokingham) becomes your primary duty now. Steady the ship from those that would rock it – those in Leave who know it all and those in Remain pledged to destroy it – both are dangerous.

  78. They Work for Us?
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    A waspish comment on disgruntled youth remainders is in article in “Conservative Woman” entitled “The resit generation strikes back with a Brexit tantrum”.

    I hope a good and resolute broad church team is being put together to negotiate “Brexit”. This must surely include Nigel Farage and Daniel Hannan who have seen the institutions of the EU operate at close hand for many years and can spot obfuscation and EU speak (when words do not mean what they appear to mean). Other good people could be Gisela Stewart, Andrea Ledsom, Kate Hoey and possibly Frank Field to give a cross party approach. The new Conservative Govt must not offend the public by supercilious treatment of other Brexit campaigners.

    It will be very unpopular if any deal attempts to include free movement of people and payments to the EU even if this would make a settlement easier
    Finally many Conservatives will be alarmed at the prospect of Mrs May as a compromise, reconciliation leader candidate. She sat out the referendum on the fence when others were more courageous and were Brexiteers.

  79. ian
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Time to bring the arm force home for a well over due rest

  80. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    For crying out loud:

    “Diplomats: Britain ‘May Never’ Trigger EU Divorce”

    “Britain “may never” trigger the formal divorce process with the EU despite last week’s referendum in which the country voted to leave, EU diplomats said Sunday.

    “My personal belief is they will never notify” the EU about their intention to leave, a senior EU diplomat said on condition of anonymity.”

    “There cannot be any kind of negotiation with Britain before there is a notification.”

    No notification, no negotiation, no withdrawal from the EU; so despite voting to leave the EU we’ll be staying in and on the same terms Cameron got in his “deal” which the voters said were not good enough.

    All who worked for years to get us out of the EU are now being betrayed.

    • rose
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

      The EU says the PM’s negotiated terms are now null and void.

  81. graham1946
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    This is a reason why we must get on with it. There is nothing whatsoever preventing slippery Dave over the next few weeks when the Leave side have considered their approach from starting the process instead of running away from responsibility. He could do it Tuesday. This alone stinks of an elite stitch-up in the making. Don’t know what yet, but like I said last week, The Bilderberg types will not let it happen if they can possibly avoid it. The nearest I can come up with is that they will engineer a GE and the new government will be able to say it was not their instruction to leave it was all in the last parliament.
    All these cronies rubbishing the vote and the voters shows what they are and what they think of the paying public. EU types cannot accept anything they don’t agree with and would like to keep voting until the ‘right’ choice is made. They all come from the same mould.

    As I said last week, a little thank you to the voters by way of a Brexit Bonus, like abolishing the 5 percent fuel VAT would go down well and kill a lot of this nonsense off. Never mind the legalities, if we are likely to lose this chance, just do it. Leave it for months or years and people will go cold on it especially if George’s threatened recession takes hold so they can say ‘told you so’. Any little thing going wrong from now on will blamed on Brexit.

  82. CJLouth
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    I voted Remain so am clearly in the minority of commentators on this blog (but not, interestingly, in Mr Redwood’s and my constituency which voted 57% for Remain). What I can’t see any sign of is an actual plan by the Leave campaign. I expected to see, and imagine that many Leavers expected to see, a detailed set of steps and milestones, negotiating teams in place, a timetable even. Instead it feels like there has been an absolute vacuum – Leave campaigners looking around thinking someone else had the plans. I admit, I would love it if somehow the Article 50 notification never happens but if I am to come to terms with this result and get closure I need to have a sense that somebody knows what they are doing. With every passing day it feels as if nobody other than Nicola Sturgeon actually has a plan.

    Reply The 57% figure is for the Wokingham Council area, not for my constituency

    • rose
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

      The Leave campaign weren’t a political party and they didn’t have a manifesto. It wasn’t a general election. Now they are not in government and don’t have a civil service.

      It is for the elected government to have a plan and in this they have failed us. George Osborne let the cat out of the bag (that there was no plan for Brexit) before the referendum. It was a shocking derogation of duty. In a referendum such as this it is for the people to decide and for the governement to execute the decision. What was the head of the civil service thinking? That he could just bomb us into submission with black propaganda and there would be no need for a contingency plan?

      Now, after the markets have shown signs of alarm he and others have formed a unit to do months of work which should have been ready before Thursday.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 5:05 am | Permalink

      The Leave campaign was not and is not and will not be the goverrnment.

  83. P Ferguson
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    1922 committeeis auoted as :
    “I think it’s entirely reasonable to expect we, the Government, should embark on that, [the referendum result] get on with it, seek to negotiate as good an outcome as we can before the people are then asked to approve or reject that in an election.”

    We have already had a decisive referendum and chosen to Leave. Full stop. There is no option on that referendum to “try again until you get the correct answer”
    Nusatisfacory.

  84. BOF
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Worth a thought wab, that older people tend to vote because they have a great deal of life experience behind them, and because they care deeply that the country they leave behind is just, fair and democratic.

    As for Hestletine, he is the worst example of the elite that wish to ride roughshod over democracy as is possible to get. I heard him on the radio this morning and wondered how such an appalling man could be given so much airtime.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

      BOF. Yes, I heard him on BBC breakfast time this morning. He actually had the neck to say we would have another referendum after the legislation was presented to parliament. I was flabbergasted. This simple cannot happen. The UK invented democracy. Can you imagine how this would look to the rest of the world???

  85. David Tomlinson
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    I presume JR is quoting from Ashcroft’s polling. Very detailed but as I am not a statistician I do not not know what is the data quality (Ashcroft was pretty wrong with predictions for the General Election).
    However Wab misses the point about the ‘old’. For the over 60s it is the second referendum on the EEC/EC/EU. Most of them voted Remain as 20 somethings 41 years ago and have been living with the consequences ever since. That is why so many changed their minds and voted Leave this time, and after all those years waiting took the opportunity in large numbers to correct their acknowledged mistake.

  86. getahead
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    I wonder if Heseltine or Blair would be talking about a second referendum if the vote had gone the other way with an even smaller margin. I think we all know the answer to that. Keep on voting until you get it right.

  87. Anonymous
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    “Brexit has divided the country.”

    I am hearing this all the time in the London centric media bubble.

    No. The EU has divided the country. Get it right.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

      Got it right in one Anonymous.

  88. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    The Rt Hon Kenneth Clarke in Parliament today voiced his concerns of the… plebesite…., I guess he chose his words as carefully but as revealingly as usual,- he was speaking about the Referendum .
    He is concerned OUT means out and hopes that MPs will by one means or another make it IN as much as possible.He is identical with Mr Lammy MP

  89. ian
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    It quit clear what I have seen today that nothing is going to change apart from take on more staff, people to look at things and do nothing.

    Bankers and elite still rule.
    As they keep saying you are still in the EU and all laws and new laws coming out of the EU will be obeyed, time table for coming out never.
    They will forget it and hope you do not notice but I could be wrong but what ever happens free movement of people will stay with or without benefits.

  90. local lad
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    What possible reason can there be for another referendum? If such a thing happened and resulted in a Remain win there would be a precedent for Leave asking for yet another contest.

  91. Ken Moore
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    The dust is far from settled on the EU Referendum. The social media storm of the Remainers is fascinating – fear at the destruction of the markets (FTSE down 2.4%, accusations that 52% of the population are thick, chav racists; shame of being British; everyone wanting to emigrate to Canada etc etc.
    It tends to highlight that market manipulation since 2008 has served its purpose: the middle class are feeling very warm and cosy in their debt-inflated bubbles and have zero resilience.

    Call me cynical but I believe Cameron’s decision, to delay the Article 50 trigger for his successor, is supremely tactical. By the end of September a financial crisis will be manufactured leading to a 2nd Referendum; more fear, more lies but ultimately the result that the elites require. Ironic, isn’t it, that if the vote had been 52% Remain, everyone would have accepted it.

    The crisis will certainly wipe out a great deal of bubble market value, allowing central planners to have another bite at the debt cherry. The Leavers will be conveniently scapegoated and Joe Public will forevermore trust the “experts”. Until the next time.

  92. Chris S
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Listening to the exchanges in parliament this afternoon and the comments from Dan Hannan and Boris I fear that we are going to be sold down the river.

    There can be no doubt whatsoever that the people voted for an end to free movement and for there to be no more contributions to the EU budget. Chris Grayling confirmed as much on Channel 4 News.

    Any deal that even attempts to fudge a solution permitting either will be unacceptable to the vast majority of people who voted for Brexit.

    Yet everything I have heard so far indicates that Remain politicians intend to
    water down our exit and would be prepared to concede FOM and budget contributions in return for the dubious pleasures of membership of the single market.

    That would be in clear breach of the decision reached via the referendum.

    Could you please tell us your position on this, John ?

  93. gyges01
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Educated people tend to subordinate themselves to the hegemonic view which was Remain pre- the Referendum.

    This has been discussed in the following two books,

    i) Disciplined Minds by Jeff Schmidt
    ii) Excellent Sheep by William Deresiewicz

    • CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 12:16 am | Permalink

      I met an educated person once who had free will.

  94. Paul
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    Ah, the degree argument.

    You’re a little older than me, I’m 52. When I went to University in the 1980s, it was, I think, something like 10% of the population. I would imagine it was slightly fewer in your day. Nowadays it’s far more. Not only that far more get firsts now. When I was at University three students (out of about 75) got a first in my subject and they were Chinese nationals who did nothing but work. Nobody in English got a first in my year.

    Therefore younger people will have more degree education. Having seen what passes for a degree education in my own subject, this doesn’t mean a great deal.

  95. turboterrier
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    With all the madness of today what with Empress Nick hell bent on halting the decision, Labour imploding and the so called ” reformed” leavers still talking this country down it was refreshing to get these thoughts from a fellow business colleague courtesy of the Roger Helmer web site:-

    It’s called “Biased finality”. Vote in favour of Brussels, and that’s the issue settled, in effect, forever. Vote against, and you’ll have a second referendum straight away. Keep voting till you get it right. The anti-Brussels answer simply can’t be accepted. We saw this in Denmark, and twice in Ireland, and it shows a massive contempt for democracy.

    We’re seeing it here already. The whingers, the bad losers, are out in force. They’re trying to change the rules, and the score-line, after the referee has blown the whistle. It was only a small majority. Voters didn’t know exactly what the new arrangement would be. The Leave side didn’t have a plan. Voters ignored the “facts” from Remain. The markets are in chaos. Promises made by the Leave campaign are falling apart. We must renegotiate new terms with Brussels, says Michael Heseltine (very generously allowing that Boris, Gove and Nigel Farage might do the negotiations), and then the new deal must be put to a new referendum.

    The Heseltine’s of this world have had their day and should be at home keeping their mouths firmly shut and concentrating on their next book or flower show.

  96. bluedog
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Dr JR, another factor in the dissection of Leave and Remain should be the growing gulf between rich and poor, exacerbated by QE which has led to an asset price boom, not just in the UK, but across the developed world. Leave voters would mainly be found in localities where salaries or pay-packets were outside the top decile. The boom is not just in asset prices, but also in executive salaries, which have reached multiples of the average annual wage to what might be described as pre-revolutionary levels. Here’s a link to a US website that gives some figures. http://www.payscale.com/data-packages/ceo-income/full-list

    Where the salary is relatively low such as (named person ed) of Goldman Sachs who makes do with just 98 times the average annual wage, one can be certain that there are other benefits which fall outside the metric employed in calculation. Nobody who believes in free enterprise can complain about those with the ability and energy doing well. But it’s all a question of risk and reward. In many cases the CEO takes no financial risk but is handsomely rewarded nonetheless. Indeed, it is increasingly likely that the CEO will hold the top job for at most five years before being retired on a massive severance package.

    We’ve been down this road before with banker bonuses and it’s a very difficult area. However, that doesn’t stop it being a growing source of friction and hence a factor in the political equation. Not sure what the answer is, but one suspects the success of Leave is in part a revolt against the financial power of Remainians.

  97. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    “Jeremy is an honest and decent man” : most of the Shadow Cabinet resign.

  98. Anonymous
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    62% of 18-24 year-olds did not vote in the EU referendum.

    24% of 18-24 year-olds voted to Remain.

    Can we drop this crap about the young generation being let down by the older generation ? Despite two extra days to enable them to register – they could not be bothered in the main.

    • Anonymous
      Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

      Sorry – around 26% of 18-24 year-olds voted Remain.

      • hefner
        Posted June 28, 2016 at 7:44 am | Permalink

        And that means than 26/38 = 68% voted to remain.

  99. REPay
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    I would like to hear more about how the U.K. should approach the negotiations. You cautioned against invoking Article 50, the proscribed process – is there really an alternative?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 4:59 am | Permalink

      As that is the process to which we agreed when we ratified the Lisbon Treaty there is no alternative which does not breach EU and wider international law. Some may say that doesn’t matter, and it doesn’t except that then every country in the world will be wondering if we can be trusted to keep any other agreement.

      • hefner
        Posted June 28, 2016 at 7:37 am | Permalink

        As you say, Denis, anybody who thinks he will be able to design another path is either a dreamer or a populist.
        Or maybe as a proud Englishman, he is still stuck in the ideas of the Empire on which the Sun never sets, and thinks only Englishmen are civilised enough to impose their wishes on less developed populace.

      • Chris S
        Posted June 28, 2016 at 9:31 am | Permalink

        I could not agree more. The amount of backsliding we have seen already is truly alarming and I fear that what we have won by sheer hard work will be denied us by the forces of the establishment.

        The British people voted for an end to Free Movement of People, not just benefit claimants, Dan and for an end to contributions to the EU budget.

        Any deal that does not deliver these two crucial elements will be undemocratic.

        As for Lammy, Kenneth Clarke and Jeremy Hunt, their shameless attempts to frustrate the will of the electorate has to be put down by true democrats in the strongest possible terms.

        I don’t believe we can trigger A50 until we have a draft road map ready for negotiations to begin in the Autumn.

        Two years is already a very short timescale and we need to be well prepared. Personally, I think that the EU will suffer even more profound difficulties before Autumn 2018 including at least a couple more referenda being called.

        After the Summer holidays, Hollande and Merkel will have plenty to worry about at home. There will be a new French President in place in less than 10 months and Merkel must hold the German General Election between 22nd August and 22nd October 2017.

        Nothing we have seen since our referendum result is likely to reverse the rise in Euroskepism across Europe. Recent pronouncements over ECU by Juncker and the French and German Foreign Ministers show that they have learned nothing.

        Events across the EU may well be moving more in our direction by the time we get to any serious decision making.

        Indeed, when history comes to be written, Britain will be seen to be in the vanguard of a move to a more peaceful and prosperous Europe of Nation States. But only as long as our politicians follow the democratically expressed wishes of the electorate

        The delay in triggering A50 will therefore be crucial.

  100. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    The Brexit vote could have changed the pc language in Parliament. But it hasn’t. All the “hate -language” apparently comes from persons who mention immigration and migrants. A racist attack on a Polish Centre is assumed to be made by born and bred white British people.
    Whilst Remain MPs go on Parliamentary delegations to European and World Parliaments they might diplomatically ask: “Do all sections of your people who migrate to the UK like one another? Do Romanians, some of them, not take kindly to Bulgarians and vice-versa? Do Serbians like French people or certain sections of French people?When foreigners come to the UK do all of them drop their prejudice and racist feelings for other migrants from countries other than their own or do they bring their nasty racist luggage with them?
    Parliamentarians always blame British people as being the only racists on the planet. The most lazy of all peoples. Skivers, tax avoiders, working only half as hard as all other peoples on Earth.
    Remainders wonder why they lost the Referendum, still.

    PS. The Leave vote could not have been won without migrants living here of several years standing voting LEAVE.

  101. Bazman
    Posted June 27, 2016 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    Just here. Popping away. Pop! Pop! Pottity Pop! Brexit! Marvellous!

  102. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted June 28, 2016 at 12:35 am | Permalink

    John Kerry says in the presence of our Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond that:-

    “It’s a pity the UK will not be at the table when he discusses defense matters with other members of the EU. ”

    He’ll just have make do with sensible advise from Herr Merkel instead. Germans are good on Russian geography and logistics..

    • Chris S
      Posted June 28, 2016 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      The sheer lunacy of Kerry’s comment is obvious.

      Britain is the most powerful military power in Europe, the leading European member of NATO and crucially, the country that the former Eastern Bloc countries trust the most to stand up for their interests. We also have that important seat on the Security Council.

      Any discussions concerning European security are of necessity going to involve the UK. When things settle down, I can see future discussions that take place on European security outside of a NATO forum having the US and UK on one side of the table and the EU on the other. The French won’t like it but our presence will provide reassurance to the Eastern European states like Poland and others like Germany will be supportive.

      Then there is the matter of hard cash. The Americans are complaining bitterly that everyone other than the UK is backsliding on spending the 2% of GDP they have demanded. France is in no shape economically to continue and Germany has never pulled her weight, either in cash or on the ground, largely through angst over her role in past conflicts.

      No President of the US is going to allow the UK to be left out otherwise it will leave a large gap which the US will be forced to fill.

      Forget Obama, The interests of the UK and the USA are very similar and, crucially, we have never tried to play out European politics with defence or undermine NATO like the French.

      In short, the USA knows who she can rely on.

  103. Rhys Jaggar
    Posted July 1, 2016 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    It would seem to me that the regions which voted Brexit were predominantly:
    1. Rural regions.
    2. Urban regions where de-industrialisation during the Thatcher/Major era has not been followed by successful regeneration (Manchester, which has regenerated very successfully since the mid 1980s, voted to Remain).

    This will split into two ‘traditional’ voting constituencies:
    1. The ‘safe labour heartlands’ of the NE of England, much of Yorkshire and the NW, the West Midlands outside Birmingham and S Wales outside of Cardiff.
    2. The rural shires traditionally voting either Conservative or, in the SW for at least 20 years in the past, Libdem.

    Whether you wish to assign blame, fight or bicker about things, the vote in the Labour heartlands was a ‘We’ve had enough: no-one cares what we’ve been through’. The vote in the Tory shires may be very different, being more attuned to global trade vs being tethered to the EU.

    Whether you like it or not, 400,000+ net immigration for a decade has already put incredible strains on public service infrastructures and any politician who, like the New Labour administration over replacing power stations, puts their head in the sand for 10 years should be ostracised and prevented from exercising public service in future. There HAS to be a credible policy to control the population of the UK and that includes, as a firm non-negotiable point, defining what a maximum sustainable UK population can be. Not what the optimal one might be but what the maximum cannot be more than.

    If the globalists see the ‘forgotten communities’ as ‘acceptable collateral damage’ in globalist dogma, don’t be surprised if people react in the only way left to them. Protests, riots or worse. If you’ve ever experienced grinding poverty for 3 years (I have), you know how enervating it is, particularly when you are sneered at, derided and scorned for your misfortune.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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