This election is about Brexit

The Liberal Democrats could not be clearer. They dislike Brexit. They are not reconciled to the decision of Uk voters, and are offering a second referendum on Brexit were they to be able to influence government. They have said they will likely campaign for Remain again in such a referendum.

The Lib Dems have issued leaflets with “Want to stop a disastrous Hard Brexit? ” on the front, and a message from their Leader “demanding” a second referendum on the second page. They have campaigned to turn this General Election into a second referendum on Brexit by urging all who want to try to reverse the referendum decision to vote for them to secure another vote. They are wrong to suggest their opponents want a disastrous Brexit. No party wants a disastrous Brexit. Realists accept membership of the single market is not on offer for a non EU state. The issue is mutual access, not membership.

If the polls are right and they come well behind the two leading parties we will be able to conclude that most voters now accept the verdict of the referendum and wish a new government to get on and implement it in the best way possible. Many people think the UK would look silly and place itself in a very weak position if two years after telling our partners we were leaving we wanted to change our mind and tried to get old terms of membership back.

One of my few cherished memorabilia of past Liberal Democrat campaigns is their leaflet saying “It’s time for a real referendum on Europe”. Issued when Conservatives were trying to stop the Lisbon Treaty , Lib Dems then declined to help us get a vote on that but recommended an In/Out vote. Conservatives offered just such a vote after Lisbon had gone through, when the Lib Dems changed their mind again and did not support. They stated quite clearly in that original leaflet “Only a real referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU will let the people decide our country’s future. ”

Brave words. What a pity that when we gave the people that decision and they made it, Lib Dems then decided they knew better than the voters and demand we do it all over again. Funny idea of democracy.

They now claim that the referendum was advisory – though the government wrote to every household saying voters would decide. They go on to claim Leave voters were conned by arguments over the money. That cannot be true, given the endless complaints they made about the figures throughout the referendum campaign, seeking to put across their view of the amounts in dispute.

Published and promoted by Fraser Mc Farland on behalf of John Redwood, both at 30 Rose Street Wokingham RG 40 1 XU

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143 Comments

  1. Anonymous
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Hail the LibDems for turning this election back into a vote on Brexit.

    They will have done more to define a Hard Brexit mandate than UKIP !

    When Newmania said he was campaigning with the ‘beautiful’ people (LibDems) I thought it childish on more than one level.

    • NickC
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:00 am | Permalink

      If you think that (ex?)-remain Theresa May wants to actually leave the EU you are not listening to the same Mrs Maybe that I am. She called this election so that she was free (had her own mandate) to water it down, so that we remain tied to the EU’s apronstrings.

      All because she won’t state the principle, established by the Referendum, that the UK’s independence is not negotiable. And then campaigns on all sorts of frivolous side issues (they are, until our independence is secured) rather than getting on with the job of leaving the EU for which she already had a mandate.

      Reply She has said the opposite – needs strong mandate to restore our money, our borders and our laws.

      • Hope
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:49 am | Permalink

        JR, to restore our borders? No, she claimed the borders were secure when lying to keep us in the EU. We now know today our borders are not secure like we (you and me) advocated when she made that claim. How could the terrorist travel from Italy, telling them he wanted to be a terrorist, and be allowed into the UK with an EU watch notice on him? The other one travelled to Syria to train to be a terrorist. Which part is Mrs May not responsible for and which part of not having a secure border, putting us all in peril, does she or you not understand? If she had honour she would accept her failings and walk. Better still if your party did not have a treachery streak running through its core it would not have made sure a retainer was PM.

        I genuinely hope you are elected tomorrow. You try to engage with people far more than many other MPs. You also appear to be a conservative, unlike so many of the cabinet.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

          Indeed, at best only about one third of Tory MPs are sound and even of that wing over 97% voted to pay the patently absurd, job destroying, climate change act.

          • Hope
            Posted June 8, 2017 at 8:17 am | Permalink

            May is allowing terror to breed but hopes it will not. We need action to stop and prevent it in its bud. Rid I also and terrorists free to wander in and out the country, pathetic criminal justice system providing no deterrent whatsoever, police numbers cut to the bone, military decimated, no border Agency with teeth and a very poor security service.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 11:04 am | Permalink

        If that is how you feel about it then maybe you should vote for somebody else who you think could be better trusted to take us out of the EU, that is if they ever became Prime Minister and could do that. Or just spoil your ballot paper, which is being loudly contemplated by somebody who has campaigned for many years to get us out of the EU but now doesn’t like the way that Theresa May is proposing to do it, foolishly ignoring his carefully crafted detailed multi-stage exit plan, and so would rather she didn’t do it at all. I live in her constituency and while I could not claim to actually know her I’ve seen enough of her over the years to be prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt on Brexit. Nevertheless I might still vote for the UKIP candidate, simply because on the basis that her victory is assured and he will need my vote more than she will.

      • APL
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

        NickC: “She called this election so that she was free (had her own mandate) to water it down, so that we remain tied to the EU’s apronstrings.”

        In Maidenhead Tory voters should vote for the independent Tory candidate – if there is one.

        JR: “She has said the opposite – needs strong mandate to restore our money, our borders and our laws.”

        She needs a mandate to act according to our constitution????

      • NickC
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

        Reply to reply: JR … the opposite of what? In simple English “leave” doesn’t mean remaining partly in. Can you point me to the speech where Mrs May has stated that the UK’s independence is not negotiable?

        She has failed so to state, as far as I can see. Consequently some part of our independence is up for negotiation. Consequently Mrs May is free to water down our leaving, as I said.

  2. fedupsoutherner
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    The Lib Dims are hardly worth a mention. I have never witnessed a bigger bunch of overgrown schoolboy twerps in my life. There has been so much hand wringing during this election I can’t see why anybody would vote for them. If I see Farron or any more of them with schoolchildren during this election I will be wondering if they aren’t trying to get a place within that school. They are a disgrace but of course Clegg wants his place in the Eu together with the nice fat pension he can pick up afterwards and the lifestyle it will offer courtesy of the British tax payer. I don’t know why he and his wife don’t go and live in Europe. Most of us will be glad to see the backs of them.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

      How does the old song go – ‘They smile in your face, all the time they want to take your place, the back-stabbers’.

      The Lib Dem line is dangerous, incoherent, duplicitous, and they say one thing to one person, and something else entirely to the next, but CAUTION! They’re not on their own!

      I am deeply troubled by the prospect of having to vote for the least worst option to stop the other two, but there isn’t a UKIP candidate standing in this constituency.

      Tad

    • David L
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

      Nice fat pensions for politicos aren’t just found in the EU….look closer to home!

  3. Mark B
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    The EU referendum was not legally binding but, the UK electorate was left on no doubt that whatever the result parliament would accept the decision. I mean, what would be the point of holding it otherwise ?

    I am surprised that the Lib dems even support the EU given that, even under their preferred voting system, they only got one MEP.

    Like our kind host I too do not understand their reasoning. If if there was another referendum and, say this one was legally binding, if it returned an even bigger mandate to leave what then ? Are we going to just keep voting until we get the right answer? Do they not know how rediculousthis all sounds?

    We are leaving and, it should be clearly stated that, if the UK were to rejoin the EU then we would at some point have to join the Euro and submit to wealth transfers to poorer and more corrupt and inefficient countries. Is this what people and the Lib Dems want ?

    Never in my life have I heard a political party that makes the Monster Eaving Loones seem sane.

  4. margaret
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    The lib dems must see this mess we are in due to European membership as a good thing. At one time I was drawn to the lib dems. Liberal meaning free and democratic meaning the will of the many .Not so ,it seems.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:33 am | Permalink

      The name Liberal Democrats is clearly entirely satirical.

      • Hope
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:03 am | Permalink

        The election is not just about Brexit. Our security and safety is above Brexit. Both main parties have demonstrated they put foreign countries, foreign nationals, foreign religious ideology ahead of our own citizens safety and have the absolute gaul to use our taxes to do so.

        Which party do you consider to be the least damaging (security, financially and culturally) to our country and citizens is the real question. Sadly the election is not about a preference.

  5. Lifelogic
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    Indeed the Libdems will surely come nowhere in this election along with the greens. Their politicies are simply wrong on almost every single issue.

    It is a great shame that Professor Stephen Hawking backs Labour – ‘because Tories would be a disaster for NHS and police’. Can he not see that Corbyn would take the economy directly into a black hole and would thus be far more of a disaster for health care and the police/law and order in the UK?

    The maths of this should be quite trivial for him after all.

    Hawkins was at least sensible enough as recently as March 17, to call for Corbyn to step down “I regard Corbyn as a disaster,” the Cambridge University academic told The Times.

    If you you want better health care, law and order, defence and a sound economy (and not to be rules by the Scottish then Conservative is the only way to vote. Let us hope that May can be controlled by her sensible wing and her daft socialist streak can be put out to grass post the election. If not she should be.

  6. Lifelogic
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    It is indeed largely about Brexit but also it is about:

    Relative economic competence, having a majority government or a coalition of chaos, about sensible taxes and hugely higher taxes (that would kill the economy and raise less tax anyway), about sound law and order and solid defence, about encouraging UK investment and hard work of killing it, about a fake Father Chistmas, dream world figure or economic reality, about the politics of envy and bitterness or fairness and justice.

    On everyone of these issue May (hopefully controlled by the sound wing of the Tories) is the only option. Corbyn would indeed be a disaster.

  7. alan jutson
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    “This election is about Brexit”

    Absolutely right on the money, if it was not about Brexit, the Conservative Party would be really struggling.

    So important that we get the best deal possible on Brexit or walk away, because we want our Country back in our own hands, under our own control, where we can decide our future, in the future.

    Whilst I think Mrs May has been in charge of an absolutely dire campaign, all of the other possible alternatives are unthinkable if we want to remain even reasonably solvent as a Nation.

    • NickC
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      Alan, the phrase (not just from you) “… the best deal possible on Brexit …” misses the point. The principle, established by the Referendum is that the UK decided to be independent. Independence is not negotiable. Deals come after independence.

      Once that is openly stated and acknowledged all the rest falls into place. Any “deals” with the EU (on trade, security, etc) then become merely the stuff of normal diplomatic negotiation that we might have with any other country or bloc. And will, I hope. The “deal” with the EU then ceases to loom large like the Sword of Damocles.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:09 am | Permalink

        Well, I agree that it will become part of normal diplomatic relations, that is
        relations between the UK as a sovereign state and other sovereign states or organisations of sovereign states. But to get to back to that normality we have to escape from our present complex entanglements with this abnormal political project designed to destroy national sovereignty, and preferably do that with minimum economic and other costs. That is why the government should have been much more careful about explaining what it meant by “walking away” from negotiations on the basis that “no deal will be better than a bad deal”, rather than leaving it open-ended and so allowing opponents to do their usual trick of grossly exaggerating what it could mean. If you listen to the likes of Farron you might think that we would not even have any diplomatic relations with the other countries after we have left the EU.

      • alan jutson
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:15 am | Permalink

        Nick C

        Absolutely agree with the point you make, but it also makes sense to try and move on with how best we can continue to trade with the EU on new terms at the same time without making a compromise on actually leaving.

        Hence the reason I am happy to walk away without a deal, as in my view we have already given our notice with article 50 being sent.

      • DaveM
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:21 am | Permalink

        You’re quite right, but the politicians have managed to retreat into their comfort zone and make the whole argument about economics and trade deals. Fortunately, Mr Redwood seems to appreciate that for most of us who voted to leave the EU, the point was sovereignty, control, and the ability to determine our own future, be it for better or worse. If EU membership was solely about trade, the vote would surely have been overwhelmingly to remain (apart from in fishing communities and small business communities). But it wasn’t!!

        A good deal would be nice, but independence with no deal wins it every time.

      • Mark B
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

        I very much agree.

        We are leaving. We will be a, ‘Third Country’ in less than two years. This fantasy of a so called, ‘deal’ worries me. What we should be talking about is not trade but, how will an independent UK deal with the EU ? What about the land border between the UK and Eire ? This and much more need to be discussed. This blind alley of trade talks is dangerous nonsense. It is misleading people on important issues regarding governance.

      • getahead
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

        Nick and Alan, well said.

        • getahead
          Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

          And Mark.

  8. agricola
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:12 am | Permalink

    Yes, I think I said it yesterday, this election is about Brexit. When it is done and dusted do not get over excited about selling what remains in the Conservative manifesto. Brexit will change the battlefield and government will need to react to it. Best of luck personally and in general for tomorrow. Incidentally the Lib/Dems never have been either Liberal or democratic. Better re-name them Las Oportunistas. Mrs Clegg can help you with that one.

  9. fedupsoutherner
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    This will be my last post for a while so I would like to wish you all the best John in the election tomorrow. I sincerely hope, for the sake of the country that the Conservatives get in with a decent majority and we can move forward to making this country prosperous in the wider world again without the shackles of the EU. Good luck to you and your party.

  10. Jerry
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    Indeed it is about Brexit but not just Brexit, it is about every other single government department too (besides their own involvement in Brexit), such as Early years education, DLA payments or NHS elderly care provision for example, and how these polices that have little to do with Brexit are implemented.

    As the saying goes; You can foll some of the people some of the time, you can’t foll all of the people all of the time. This is were the Tory party have arrived at after 40 years of picking off one group after another, hence why their support appears to have collapsed, why from talking about landslides the party is talking about loosing their majority – all because they are intent on servicing the wishes of the 1% and not the 99%, attacking the grey(ing) vote, most of whom have done the right thing but want to leave help their grandchildren [1] after their deaths, £100,000 doesn’t go very far between two, three, four or more…

    [1] note the plural, note the generational shift

    • Jerry
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:47 am | Permalink

      Another knee-jerk omni-shambles on polices from Mrs May yesterday, her Manifesto say that the UK will remain in the ECHR but now Mrs May says she will rip up the human rights laws to fight terror if necessary – a political oxymoron, do one and the other promise is vacuous!

      Funny how other EU member countries manage to deal with terrorism from within the ECHR, no I’m not suggesting that they are terror free, but then the EU27 do have far closer ties within Europol, use of EAWs, and the Schengen Agreement etc. than the UK does. Oh and on Schengen, how can one EU28 country put someone on the Schengen “watch” list in the last 7 years and another country apparently not take any notice of it when the person arrived by a commercial airline into the UK – that is not a problem with the Human Rights Act, that is incompetence (or perhaps under-staffing) within the UKBA over seen by the Home Office…

      Reply As the PM has said, she can do what she needs to do within the framework of the ECHR which she has decided to keep for the next Parliament.

      • alan jutson
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:01 am | Permalink

        Jerry

        I also see the Labour Party in some chaos as well this morning with Mr Corbyn sacking Dianne Abbott.

        Her replacement is apparently on record as saying Corbyn is “untenable as Leader” only 12 months ago, and resigned her then shadow cabinet position to back it up last year.

        Clearly not too many Corbyn supporting candidates to choose from inside the Labour Party to fill the senior positions.

        What I do find amazing in this election is how both Main Party leaders have hogged all of the media coverage themselves, its as if neither trust anyone else in their Party to make statements, perhaps probably because they are all rather confused on future policy.

        • Jerry
          Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

          @alan jutson; You seem to be privy to more information that even Mr Corbyn is about what he has done with regards Diana Abbott. We shall see…if your information is correct or if you have taken a cheap-shot at someone who has simply become unwell.

          As for Mr Corbyn suitability, how many Brexiteers, how many on this site, thought that Mrs May wasn’t a suitable leader for a post Brexit referendum Tory party, after all she was an Remainer and many still believe she is. Guess that makes it evens on leadership suitability!

          As for coverage, not sure what you have been listening, watching or reading but beyond the set media events complete with dutiful party “noddies” behind the respective leader intended for the news headlines or bulletins if anything there has been more than usual numbers of interviews etc. with other senior politicians on all sides – even the dumbed down Daily Politics have excelled themselves – probably because Mrs May has shun the media and thus the media has had to shun the other leaders for balance…

      • Jerry
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 11:45 am | Permalink

        @JR reply; Well your reply, if correct, just makes the situation worse for the current government and PM! If what Mrs May wants to do can be done from within the ECHR framework then why has she, as either the Home Secretary or now as PM, not done so before, the problem of terrorism has been in her lap for SEVEN years now not seven weeks….

        Reply Glad you can always find a way to criticise!

        • zorro
          Posted June 7, 2017 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

          Reply to reply – Unfortunately JR, she is a sitting duck target in the Gordon Brown style….

          zorro

      • forthurst
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

        It’s also noteworthy that other countries are not demanding totalitarian control of the internet a la North Korea which Mrs May appears to be pushing hard now and I would not be at all surprised that this having been at the back of Manifesto comes to the fore when the new business of the HoC is revealed. Clearly, the government has lost confidence in its abilty to protect English people from being the victims of pre-meditiated violence so they are determined to clamp down on the discussions which English people will have over who and what is the problem and what needs to be done. In point of fact, the government appears to have an encryption expert who sounds extremely self-confident; however he appears not to understand that there is no such thing as a ‘backdoor’ which can only be exploited by the ‘good’ guys, but then he has a history degree so how would he be an expert in a specialised area of maths and information technology.

    • MickN
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      after their deaths, £100,000 doesn’t go very far between two, three, four or more…

      I think you will find it goes a bit further than the £23,000 that is currently the case.
      The Tories more than quadruple what a person can keep and get castigated for it.
      I do think it was handled badly though

      • ian wragg
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

        Mick. As someone who is administering an estate, £23,000 isn’t the end, between £14,500 and 23,000 you still have to pay £1 per week for each £250 which is deemed to be interest. I would be interested ton find out where these rates are available

      • Jerry
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

        @MickN; Currently property value is not take in to consideration for in-the-home care, this is why the policy has caused so much consternation, not just the lost votes but perhaps how much money the policy will actually bring in due to the ways many will try to limit or avoid their exposure to this so called “Death Tax” in the years before they need either in-their-home or residential nursing home care, and yes for the really unfortunate they might well still be taken to their last £23k even with this policy.

        It was not thought though that is for sure, politically or fiscally.

    • Edward2
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

      “Their support seems to have collapsed”

      Have you seen Ian Dale’s study of every single constituency which can be reached from this site or the article in the Telegraph looking at likely election outcomes?
      But we shall see very soon.

  11. alte fritz
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    Glad to see a comment on the idea that if negotiation does not go as we wish, we ask the EU if they will kindly let us back in, let bygones be bygones. Somehow, the interviewers never manage to ask that question.

    • James Matthews
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

      Which would of course make it an absolute certainty that we would be offered deliberately unacceptable terms. Going back in is not an option.

  12. Pauline Janes
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    I have always voted Conservative. Not this time! Mrs May refused to participate in the televised debates. She has staged fake rallies in remote warehouses, with invited guests only. On the few occasions on which she has allowed herself to be questioned by journalists, she has been evasive, and has simply trotted out prepared slogans.
    No, I will not be taken for a fool. I will not vote for someone who has shown contempt for our democratic process. Who wins this election is less important than the health of our political process

    • Cook
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      “Who wins this election is less important than the health of our political process”
      In other words the proof of the pudding is the cooking and not the eating.

    • Know-dice
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      Are you REALLY saying you would prefer Corbyn, Abbott & Sturgeon?

      That’s the risk at the moment and it’s too close to call 🙁

      I just don’t want May to take any win as a ratification of her dopey manifesto…

      And to Mr Corbyn, my “human right” is to walk the streets of this nation without being attacked by religious zealots…

      • Dame Rita Webb
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:59 am | Permalink

        You have nothing to fear with Corbyn. Labour cracked in 1976 and when confronted with the reality of how a government finances itself they will roll over like SYRIZA has in Greece. Remember SYRIZA were touted as being Greece’s answer to the Socialist Workers Party. Mrs May this morning has proclaimed that she will dump all the human rights laws, if it facilitates the “war on terror”. Alright then why is that not in manifesto if it was so important and presumably that means we are leaving the Council of Europe as well?

        • Richard1
          Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

          Greece is not an independent country, it is a protectorate of the Eurozone & IMF. In theory at least a U.K. Govt could go on a Corbyn type tax and borrowing rampage. That’s why many people on the right supported EEC membership in the 70S and 80s and why it remains popular in spite of everything in historically badly governed countries like Italy and greece.

      • David Price
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

        But do you have a kitten to guarantee your human right?

    • Bob
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      @Pauline Janes

      “I have always voted Conservative.”

      who was your favorite Tory Prime Minister, and why?

      • Hope
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:57 am | Permalink

        Churchill for all the good reasons Johnson states in his book. But like a Tory he had a treacherous streak and became a liberal for a while. It showed me his principles went before party. Nowadays Tory party interest goes before national interest.

    • MickN
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

      You will pardon me if I don’t believe you Pauline.
      I have always considered myself Conservative although I have recently voted Ukip
      I shall vote Conservative this time because the thought of a Corbyn/Sturgeon coalition fills me with dread. I am surprised that someone who has ALWAYS voted Conservative could even contemplate risking that outcome

      • Limited
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

        Mrs may has also driven me away from the conservatives. To refuse to defend her views before the electorate is unacceptable

  13. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    I think you’re flogging a dead pony here. Anybody can see the Libdem position is ridiculous. A shame that some in your party reinforce their message.

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:20 am | Permalink

      Dear Sir Joe–Trouble is it’s not a dead anything for a chunk of the population. The papers have largely ignored the Liberals (I cannot face adding Democrats) as a busted flush but 10% or so seems significant to me and it is a great pity (somehow JR needs to improve his PR and Communications) that JR seems unable to get more stuff like today’s in the popular press. The Liberals are dissembling buffoons (or baffoons per LL).

      Reply During an election period the press takes its political articles from the leaders and official spokesmen of the main parties.

  14. Oggy
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Why are you wasting the last day of the election campaign talking about an inconsequential party with an even more inconsequential leader, instead of promoting Tory policies including on Brexit (or isn’t there any to promote ?).
    If Farron loses his seat tomorrow I will jump up and down with joy. He has shown himself to be neither Liberal or democratic.
    I will vote Tory tomorrow because the Corbyn/Abbott alternative puts the fear of God into me.

    • alan jutson
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:02 am | Permalink

      Oggy

      “Why are you wasting……”

      Perhaps the LibDems maybe a busted flush Nationally, but they have been making it all rather personal in Wokingham, with lots of fake claims about Conservative policies and indeed JR himself more recently.
      They have gained traction locally because the Conservative Council have been so arrogant and useless in so many areas in recent times.

      Unfortunately people have short memories as the LibDems were also useless especially financially when they had some power within the Local Council years ago.

      • David Price
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

        The men-who-point-at-potholes have certainly been inundating us with paper and waffle to no avail. I agree with your comment about our council – the council have just whacked up our CT by 4.9+% and the LibDems want to spend even more.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:39 am | Permalink

      Indeed if Farron and the pleasant but totally misguided green dope in Brighton are kicked out it would be excellent news. If Corbyn/Sturgeon gets in I will have sell my remaining UK assets and get all my money out asap.

      • rose
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:09 am | Permalink

        “Pleasant”??? Are we thinking of the same person?

  15. Cheshire Girl
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    I don’t believe that this election will be just about Brexit, in the minds of the public. It will be about personal safety and the
    state of our public services.

    I dont deny that Brexit us very important, but so are other things, that urgently need attention.

  16. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    “This election is about Brexit”

    What a shame the policy wonks close to your leader did not understand this when trying to take advantage of the polls to ram through misguided initiatives in the manifesto.

    We fought hard for article 50 and the acceptable exit position we would have negotiated has been put at unnecessary risk.

    Shameful

    • agricola
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      Yes it is about Brexit. Given the result that most of us seem to want and come June 2019 we as a country need to have a radical re-think on where we are going politically.
      Can we continue to accept the polarisation of society that we have now or do we want a totally British society, based on well tested criteria and comprising the very varied base of origin we have. Can we afford to continue to accept the doctrine of political correctness that I see as a major factor in the hamstrung leadership we suffer in the UK at present where it permeates just about every civil organisation we have. The detail of it’s failure has been all too distressing over recent years. As an example of how deep the rot is name me any political party of substance that has more on offer than more of the same and keep going about your business as if what we are experiencing is to be accepted as normal with vigils, flowers and hollow words. Those we will have in Parliament on Friday can start the process right away, if not involved in Brexit, ready to hit the track running in June 2019.

    • Michael Purches
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      Dead right, Narrow Shoulders. And waited half a lifetime for it. The choice now seems to be lose it, or entrust it to a bunch of incompetents who couldn’t be relied upon to negotiate a cup of tea.

    • Tweeter_L
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      I totally agree, Narrow Shoulders. They decided to take advantage of the existing core of likely Conservative voters such as myself to introduce some ill-judged “policies” in the manifesto and thought they could get away with it. What an insult- and the campaign has gone downhill since then. Talk about “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory”. If they actually end up with a smaller majority than before they will have asked for it. Good luck Dr JR and I hope you will be successful locally and appreciated more by your party in government (assuming they do manage to win.)

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:35 am | Permalink

      Agreed, it was taking a stupid and largely unnecessary risk.

      Insofar as there was any necessity it would have sprung from Farron’s explicit threat of a “legislative war” against Brexit:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4365322/Remoaners-threaten-campaign-halt-Parliament.html

      “Remain campaigners have threatened ‘legislative warfare’ that will grind Parliament to a halt on the massive Great Repeal Bill unveiled by David Davis today.”

      “Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron has vowed to go into the Parliamentary trenches over the Bill.

      He said: ‘We are going to launch a legislative war.

      ‘We will grind the Government’s agenda to a standstill, unless proper and rigorous safeguards are given over the great repeal bill.

      ‘The ball is now in the Prime Minister’s court.'”

      That was on March 30th, and Theresa May did mention* it in her statement on April 18th:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39630009

      but after that it was barely mentioned as the main reason for the election.

      * “In recent weeks Labour has threatened to vote against the final agreement we reach with the European Union. The Liberal Democrats have said they want to grind the business of government to a standstill.

      “The Scottish National Party say they will vote against the legislation that formally repeals Britain’s membership of the European Union. And unelected members of the House of Lords have vowed to fight us every step of the way … ”

      “So we need a general election and we need one now, because we have at this moment a one-off chance to get this done while the European Union agrees its negotiating position and before the detailed talks begin.

      “I have only recently and reluctantly come to this conclusion. Since I became prime minister I have said that there should be no election until 2020, but now I have concluded that the only way to guarantee certainty and stability for the years ahead is to hold this election and seek your support for the decisions I must take … ”

      That should have been hammered home day after day during the Tory campaign, that the people were only being put to the trouble of voting a fresh general election because these people, some elected but mostly and unelected, would not accept the result when the people voted in the referendum.

  17. Richard1
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    It’s also about security and rejecting the weasel words of Corbyn and others who’s condemnation of other terrorism in the UK and around the world in the past has been so inadequate. Col Tim Collins Spoke on the Today programme at approx 07.55 this am and explained very clearly what an irrelevance is the BBC / Labour party line that the London Bridge attack was the result of a reduction in police numbers due to ‘austerity’. I recommend listening to the clip. He explained how the IRA were defeated by pentetration by intelligence agencies and how this and similar work today is the key to our safety.

    • Know-dice
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:57 am | Permalink

      Agreed, smart policing is what we need…

  18. Ian Wragg
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    The trouble is the LimpDumbs position is similar to many Tories and Labour politicians plus the odious SNP.
    If May gets a decent majority which she desperately doesn’t want, she will be able to water down Brexit using pro EU politicians as cover.
    We are used to being lied too but this time it won’t work.

  19. Bob
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Agree that the Lid Dems are utterly untrustworthy.
    Problem is that so many of them are sitting as Tory MPs.

    • Bob
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      Tory manifesto says remain in ECHR, but Mrs May is now u-turning.
      Are you feeling a little disorientated?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      Indeed and as Government Ministers.

  20. Javelin
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    After reviewing the online newspaper comments I can report there is a pretty universal dislike of The Conservatives – and that’s the Conservative newspapers!! I haven’t even been on the BBC or Guardian.

    I hope the Conservatives get in, but only because The Labour Party are weaker on terrorism than The Conservatives.

    After the Conservatives win this election do not think you have a mandate. It’s only because nobody wants to give The Labour Party a mandate. The Conservatives are about to be put under more pressure than any party since the War and it has nothing to do with Brexit but the unwillingness to protect the public from Islamic terrorists and funding of hate preachers by the Saudis.

    If The Conservatives do not sort the Islamic Terrorism problem out then they will be leading this country into a very dark place as the only parties willing to counter the extremism will be political extremists themselves. But the British public will vote for them because they need to be safe on their own streets.

    • Know-dice
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:58 am | Permalink

      Not sure about that, I thought the Sun & Daily Mail were pretty strong against Corbyn…not admitting that I would read either 🙁

    • Bob
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:04 am | Permalink

      “funding of hate preachers by the Saudis.”

      don’t’s forget the British jihad seekers allowance.

      Withdraw their benefits.
      If they had to earn a living they might have less time of their hands to do the Devil’s work, and it might even help them to integrate into decent society.

      • rose
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

        We have 23,000 and rising to penetrate with our intelligence officers whereas it was 1,500 with the IRA – 5oo men and 1,000 boys.

  21. hefner
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    On Friday morning, it will be interesting to see the number of voters and the majority for some JR in Wokingham: where will his majority be? 61.4% as in 1987, 46.1% as in 2005, or in the 50s as in 2010 and 2015.
    Will people be essentially voting for the PM or will they also consider the past “activity level” of the MP?

    Reply Some confusion of percentage of votes cast with size of majority in these figures.

    • hefner
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

      Sorry. I took the numbers from Wikipedia for Wokingham. Where can I find the proper numbers?

  22. Prigger
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    “This election is about Brexit” That’s how it started. Now it’s about terrorism too. The Labour Party are poor to excruciating bad on both. I guess we’ll be subjected soon to a Labour leadership campaign again. Excitement beyond man’s capacity to cope.

  23. A.Sedgwick
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    For me the election is about England, most of our leading politicians do not recognise warnings or are in denial in several fundamental areas e.g. NHS. Nigel Farage is the only reason we had a referendum, if Corbyn wins it will be meaningless.

    The UK since devolution and in its present format is unsustainable. Neither major party has addressed in their manifestos the undemocratic HofL. Its replacement is a key factor in keeping the UK together. I cannot get my head round spending billions on the Palace of Westminster with the farce of the “Upper House”. In my book immediate enforced retirement of Peers at 70 with a commitment to make it a Senate representing the four countries on international issues after the next parliament would be a vote winner and ensure a better organised government. The Commons would become the English Parliament. With extra domestic powers for ALL four nations friction would be less.

    I could elaborate more if Corbyn gets to power, just to say we would be economically doomed and it would be a fitting end to the dreadful governments since 1990.

    • rose
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

      I thoroughly dislike the House of Lords Blair left us with but to abolish it completely and replace it with something else would leave the monarchy very exposed. Perhaps that is the intention. Or perhaps you feel the monarchy is already exposed, in which case your senate may be the answer.

  24. Bert Young
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    The LibDems are a bewildered and lost party ; the rot had set in well before Clegg , but he certainly , was a nail in the coffin . Any politician , or Party , that turns its back on democracy is blind and cannot hope to attract votes ; their ideals are twisted and built around a few misguided and idiotic individuals .

    Tomorrow is a fight between Labour and the Conservatives ; both of them have focused on their leadership and attempts to steal votes from each other . Corbyn has a very weak profile from his links to the IRA and his inability ” to press the button ” if required ; Theresa followed a non-Conservative manifesto and lack of enthusiasm for debate . The result is a considerable narrowing of popularity of both leaders .

    It will be amazing if Labour win ; they would have to achieve such a %age turnaround that borders on the impossible ; they can only hope for some sort of cobbled together coalition . The Conservatives ought to succeed , but their success will depend on the reliable more grey haired support they have traditionally always have had .

    I wish we had John Redwood as our local candidate ; he represents what is best in Conservatism and has always been consistent in expressing his views . He ought to have had more of a significant role in guiding his Party during this campaign . I wish him well and success for tomorrow .

  25. Oggy
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Dear Dr Redwood, I’m a plain speaking Yorkshireman, a fact which evidently you don’t appreciate or like at times as quite a lot of my posts go ‘AWOL’.
    But I do wish you well tomorrow and hope the Tories are returned with a substantial majority as the alternative doesn’t bear thinking about.

  26. Chris
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    The election campaign should have been about Brexit but Theresa May and her advisers decided to try to ram through a lot of other proposals/policies that are, quite frankly, not Conservative. Whoever had that idea lacked basic common sense and lacked an understanding of what true Conservatism is about. That is unless there is a deliberate agenda to keep the “Conservative” party well to the left. As other commenters had made clear here, the Tories are not popular in the country, and a win will be because the alternative possible PM would be a disaster. The Conservatives have only themselves to blame, and if they had used common sense and employed basic grassroots Conservatism they would easily have won back the Labour voters that Thatcher won over, plus the very considerable number of UKIP voters. The left make the loudest noise in this country but I would suggest that the (usually silent) majority in the country are more of a right wing persuasion wanting freedom from government interference, low taxes, incentives to get on in life, a spirit of entrepreneurship instead of being stifled by regulation and red tape. I suggest also that the Islamist terrorist problem could have been prevented by properly resourced controls of our borders and a refusal to embrace mass immigration. One can go further back of course to Tony Blair and his disastrous leadership, taking us into the Iraq war. That, more than anything else, was, I believe, the source of the terrorism we are experiencing now. problemgeneration of wealth by giving .

  27. E.S Tablishment
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Lib Dem leaders are memorable characters aren’t they. Every one of them. We all remember Jeremy Thorpe, Jo Grimond, Charles Kennedy, Menzies Campbell, Paddy Ashdown,Nick Clegg ( he did alot for students).

    • Glenn Vaughan
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      You seem to have forgotten the equally “memorable” David Steel aka the “Boy David”.

  28. zorro
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Best of luck tomorrow- I still think that you will get a 40-50 seat majority. I would prefer lower because you need to hold her feet to the fire. Her political and operational judgement has been badly exposed during this campaign. I do not trust her and think that she would marginalise the sensible wing if it was a higher majority as would have Cameron. Her comments on changing HR law are risible bearing in mind that she most recently wanted to stay in ECHR as opposed to staying in the EU but out of ECHR during the referendum. She is the easily malleable securocrat candidate seemingly uneasy with any real electoral contact….

    zorro

    • Mark B
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

      Whatever happens, Chairman May is damaged goods ! If she had to face someone a little more formidable she would have dumped by the Tories long ago.

  29. norman
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    As I have hinted in various ways before, I believe the issues surrounding this election go far deeper than is generally realized. Nevertheless, I’m extremely saddened to see so many in ‘self-destruct’ mode. I may be wrong, but I do believe Mrs May has done her best for the country so far, and is far and away the most credible candidate for PM. The problems facing the country are indeed perplexing, but how perverse it is to blame her for them all. Who among all her detractors think they could do better? Put yourself where she stands – it isn’t as easy as you think! IMO, she should be accorded much more credit, good will and moral support than seems to be the case at present. We might disagree on detail, but surely the first priority is to escape the increasingly ominous portent of captivity under a neo-Marxist Babylon, either under Corbyn, or the EU. Please do not be under any illusion: this may be our last chance to retain our freedom as a nation. I am deadly serious!

  30. Peter Martin
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    I suppose most Conservatives, including Mrs May, and nearly all Lib Dems would, albeit for quite different reasons like this election to be “about Brexit” and nothing else.

    But the electoral system doesn’t work like that. Elections are always going to be about what the electorate want them to be about. Brexit might be one aspect. But, most voters have had enough of the Brexit debate. That was last years argument. The result was a vote to Leave. Mrs May had a more than adequate majority to see her through to 2020. There was no need to have this election.

    But she was entirely within her rights to call it if she felt it necessary. Those rights don’t include the setting of the agenda though!

  31. Richard Butler
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Farrons line is to say he wants to be able to look his children in the eye and say he did everything he could to stop Brexit.

    I suspect his children will one day say that they, like Canadians or Australians think having grown up in a proud independent nation was completely normal and positive.

  32. Eh?
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Lyn Brown ( she is a Labour MP ) has stepped in for Diane Abbott. So, on the Opposition Bench the face Lyn Brown may greet Amber Rudd. It will be yet another joy for her.

    • ChrisS
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

      At least the appalling Abbott will be permanently banished to the back benches !
      ( Hopefully ).

  33. Oliver
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    May’s brand is badly damaged.

    Which is very good (as long as she wins) because it empowers the Tories who can’t count and know who pays the bills, and makes a good Brexit much more likely.

    There’s even the possibility the Labour movement will do well enough to be totally destroyed by Corbyns retention.

    Domestically, use the next parliament to implement Boundary reform, and ideally introduce some form of Poll Tax, so that the bottom half of “taxpayers” who are in fact a net drain on the rest of us don’t have the right to accept a bribe paid for by someone else, which is what Corbyn offers.

    • Oliver
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      I meant CAN count, not “can’t” in the first sentence!

  34. james neill
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Although brexit looms large- this election is about other things as well, like security for instance. The decision for the people now is – who to believe will deliver the best deal for Britain going forward.

    The decision to leave the EU is already made and A50 is activated so the bleating by the PDs for another referendum is only pie in the sky- there can be no reversing this decision. That said, there is still the opportunity to get an acceptable outcome to the talks but it will depend on our representatives being reasonable with the EU- the way they see it is that we are the ones causing the upset for them- going in gung ho! with all guns blazing is not going to work and is not going to achieve much.

    Secondly we have to agree Labour doesn’t deserve to win this election anyway given their miserable stance in the brexit election and their miserable stance on the same ever since- not saying in a forthright way how they stand – one way or the other- likewise Mrs Mays team doesn’t deserve much credit or to win with a huge majority either given the lies and subterfuge that was used by the Tories along with UKIP against the people to put us into this awful predicament.. even the election we are now facing is for nothing more than to strengthen Mrs Mays personal hand on power… consider this that the whole country has to stand still so that Mrs may might have a chance to increase her own political base-incredible isn’t it?! So there we have it – Lastly wishing best of luck to JR and to everyone voting.

  35. bigneil
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    ” Lib Dems then decided they knew better than the voters and demand we do it all over again. Funny idea of democracy.”

    Isn’t that exactly what the EU did when it got a vote it got a vote it didn’t want? – No wonder the LDs love the EU so much.

  36. Shelagh Sneddon
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    ‘If the polls are right and they come well behind the two leading parties we will be able to conclude that most voters now accept the verdict of the referendum and wish a new government to get on and implement it in the best way possible.’

    I do not think that you would be right to assume any such thing. I was, and still am, devastated at leaving the European Union. Mostly this is emotional – being European (politically) is a big part of my identity, and without it ‘British’ seems an identity that is smug, parochial, and far too obsessed with re-fighting WWII – but leaving the single market (and that IS ‘leaving’ – ‘access’ is not good enough) will also be very problematic for my profession, and could cost me my job. So I like the LibDems’ stance, and would vote for them if I could. Unfortunately I live in a constituency where they are a distant third, and our Labour MP is vulnerable to a Conservative surge (I’m sorry, I’m not a big fan of your party!). So Labour it has to be, even though I do not really trust them on the issue that matters most to me. I imagine that a lot of people are, in their different ways and with different results, making the same sorts of calculation – the LibDems’ tragedy is that there are too few seats where they are really in contention, and a lot of people like me, who would like to vote for them, will be voting Conservative/Labour to keep the other lot out.

    It is a sad fact about this election that I know so many people who think that the issues are important, but can see no party that is addressing them properly – and have no enthusiasm for the party they are supporting.

    • Anonymous
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

      One party in your constituency offers a second referendum and you are rejecting it. This will be magnified up an down the country.

      Good !

      Hopefully MillerBlair will finally shut up.

    • Oggy
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

      Shelagh I do not and would never consider myself European and frankly not even British – I am English and proud of it !
      Can you imagine the Scots (no matter how much they love the EU) EVER say they were European ! or British ? – I don’t think so.
      I’m sorry to hear the future of your job is in doubt, but I cannot say the same for Messrs Corbyn or Farron.

      • Shelagh Sneddon
        Posted June 8, 2017 at 11:19 am | Permalink

        I am Scottish, and (as I have said) consider myself European – and also proudly British – and, for what it’s worth, a citizen of the world. I see my identities nesting inside one another like Russian dolls – each one reinforcing the other. I think that that’s what I find especially distressing about this – that one identity now seems to negate all the others.

    • James Matthews
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

      ” ‘British’ seems an identity that is smug, parochial, and far too obsessed with re-fighting WWII”. So really, though you live and work here and enjoy the protection of the British state and voting rights therein, you nonetheless loath us. Much like Burgess, Philby and Maclean.

      Well I guess no one will be very surprised, but neither should it surprise you that in these circumstances those of us who quite like our own national identity will not take much account of your opinion. Like everyone else though, you are entirely free to leave.

      • Shelagh Sneddon
        Posted June 8, 2017 at 11:30 am | Permalink

        I don’t loathe Britain, and have always been very proud to call myself British – even in the face of friends and family strongly in favour of Scottish independence. Unlike Burgess, Philby and Maclean, I have no liking for, or trust in, the Russian state – and I am certainly no communist! But the British identity I liked was one that worked with other nations – it wasn’t the end point, but part of something bigger – the EU, the UN, NATO – a helpful, friendly country that worked with others and didn’t take itself too seriously was the one I was proud to call home. Since the EU referendum I see the rise of a British identity that, I now see, was probably yours all along, but is quite new to me – and to me it seems overconfident and increasingly closed in on itself. I’m sorry if that upsets you, and I would be delighted to be proved wrong about the overconfidence, but to me it seems a wrong turning, and, because I love my country, I must say so. Sorry.

    • stred
      Posted June 8, 2017 at 11:33 am | Permalink

      What a pity Strong and Steady could not see that, if the election was about Brexit, the die hard establishment Remainers would vote tactically for Labour in order to undermine it. Corbyn’s ploy has been to claim that the referendum would be respected, while his own team are, like May’s, mainly Remainers. If the bribes to young voters succeed, they will negotiate weakly and put the unacceptable result to the Lords and mainly Remain ‘Conservatives’ such as Soubry.

      If May gets back with a majority, the Remainers are well placed and there was even speculation that Gummer Jr may be promoted to the Brexit team. If she had wished to weaken Brexit to a Norwegian fudge, she could not have handled the matter better.

  37. brian
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    I remember the LibDems’ duplicity at the time of the debates on the Lisbon Treaty. In fact I have a recording of the debate which featured William Hague’s demolition of the LDs.

  38. Antisthenes
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Much of the left comprises of those with problems stemming from such things as envy, eccentricity, adolescent idealism, unsubstantiated doomsday belief type syndromes and belief in impractical ideologies/visions . The Lib-Dims excel in childish eccentricity, their belief in impractical visions, global warming and avow the opposite to what their name would suggest. They are anti democratic and authoritarian in nature and not liberal at all. Tim Farron like all the lefty leaders spouts nothing but childish nonsense and whinges like a spoilt teenager.

    Entitlement and dependency is the all pervasive driver of the West today which is causing us to follow the socialist progressive path as that will we believe will deliver us a fairer, homogeneous, prosperous and peaceful society. Championed by the likes of the Lib-Dims and every other misguided left wing party from Labour to the nationalists. In fact it is a vice that is sending us in the opposite direction as we see from the damage done by following this path on a daily basis. Brexit is only one battle of the many to come to defeat the avaricious beast that is progressive socialism and every time that it’s adherents gain power it is a major battle lost by the followers of liberty, free will and unrestricted choice.

  39. stred
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Off subject. I came across a chart which shows the UK as the highest contributor to the Paris agreement per head of population. When the US withdraws we will be second in total contributions after Japan. Other European countries lag far behind.

    Presumably, this is another area where Mrs May is not totally clued up and that is why she is keen for us to be largely wasting money overseas.

    I also realised last night why no-one in Westminster will even talk about some form of internment for people supporting a foreign ‘state’ that is committed to murdering us and has done so frequently. Ian Dale, on his evening programme yesterday, thinks that to do so would mean we would become ‘fascist’. Well, as ex-rights lawyer, Sadiq Khan says, it’s part of living in a city.

  40. Auror
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    JR, you wrote the following : “Realists accept membership of the single market is not on offer for a non EU state”
    In which case the so-called ‘realists’ are in denial of the facts. Single market membership *is* on offer to non-EU states. Single market membership is held by Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein via the EEA agreement. Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein are *not* EU states (and probably won’t be for the foreseeable future). There is no need to continue to repeat this factual error. Staying in the EEA will make Brexit much much easier for the UK, whilst ensuring that we achieve the one thing that matters – independence from the EU. You have not seriously engaged with the EEA option on this blog, but I would encourage you to do so.

    Reply You have to accept payments in and freedom of movement! Do try and follow what we have debated here for a couple of years.

    • Auror
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

      JR, I have followed the debate very closely. Payments and FoM do not equate to EU membership. I’m sorry, that is a simple fact. Are you trying to tell me that payments and FoM are more important issues than whether we are governed by the EU or not? Or are you agreeing with me that staying in the EEA does in fact mean that we leave the EU, albeit we stay in an agreement that you happen not to like?

      • forthurst
        Posted June 8, 2017 at 12:53 am | Permalink

        The Single Market is a system of law administered by the ECJ which applies to 100% of our economic activity not solely the 10% which relates to trade with the EU. If you think that means we are outside the EU, so be it but it doesn’t alter the reality.

        • Auror
          Posted June 8, 2017 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

          I’m not sure where you get these numbers from or how you justify them. Let me make the following points :

          1. Only about 20-30% of EU law applies to the EEA acquis, much of this is technical economic regulation that comes down from the international standards organizations. The scope for changing that legislation outside of the EU is highly limited if we are still going to be a serious trading nation. Whatever happens it is likely that we’ll end up adopting much of the single market regulations – because so much them are now global in nature.
          2. The EEA countries do not use the ECJ, they use the EFTA court. This is very different beast whose rulings are ultimately advisory in nature.
          3. If we opt for the EEA-EFTA option then we are going to end up OUT of the following : common agricultural policy, common fisheries policy, common foreign and defence policy, EU energy policy, and various home affairs and justice measures to name some. So how do you square that with still “being” in the EU?

          I’m sorry its not a matter of semantics. The EEA is really not the EU. It is radically different, and its not wholly the soft option that you seem to think it is. The softest brexit would, of course, be associate membership of the EU, but that is not something I would advocate.

    • Len Grinds
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

      As Mr Redwood says, to be a member of the EEA, you have to accept payments in and freedom of movement.
      As Mr Redwood does not say, the British people have never been asked whether or not they are content with accepting payments in and freedom of movement.

      Membership of the EEA is every bit as compatible with the result of the referendum as Mr Redwood’s scorched earth version.

      • Anonymous
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

        Freedom of movement caused Brexit.

        Leave meant Leave and none were clearer than those pedaling Project Fear.

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

      So, what you actually mean is that membership of the single market is on offer to non-EU statez, but not on terms you wish to agree to.

      • Auror
        Posted June 8, 2017 at 6:43 am | Permalink

        No, and I for one am happy to agree to them. Others here may disagree, but I think that the savings made in government expenditure by no longer paying into the EU budget will be minimal – we will end up spending much of that money on covering agricultura l subsidies, and then on paying to retain participation in a number of EU or EEA activities… and then there is the financial settlement with the EU as well. After a while I think we will see maybe a 30-50% reduction in the amount spent (maybe). International cooperation costs money, and I think that many in the UK have lost sight of this. Trying to save money via brexit is unlikely to work.

        Immigration is a serious issue, but I don’t think that immigration from the EU is the current problem, nor will it be the most serious immigration issue in the coming decades. So I don’t see a reason to damage trade over this. In the EEA there is also the possibility of using Article 112 as a safeguard as well.

      • Edward2
        Posted June 8, 2017 at 7:34 am | Permalink

        If you are a member of the single market you are in the EU
        Freedom of movement and acceptance of the supremacy of EU courts.
        The single market is the beating heart of the EU
        Odd how many nations trade happily with Europe without agreeing to freedom of movement nor being in the single market.

        • Auror
          Posted June 9, 2017 at 11:01 am | Permalink

          As I stated to an earlier poster:
          1. Yes you accept FoM – so did Switzerland which is effectively a single market participant via bilaterals not the EEA. FoM does not the EU make.
          2. EEA-EFTA countries use the EFTA court, they do not use the ECJ
          3. The EEA acquis only amounts to 20-30% of the EU acquis, so we will immediately be free of more than 70% of EU law. The less than 30% that comprises the EEA acquis is largely technical trade law that is now essentially global in nature – we’d adopt this legislation outside or inside of the EU or EEA.
          4. The single market is not the beating heart of the EU, the EU acquis and superanationalism is. If you seriously believe this then you have not understood the EU.
          4. You haven’t examined the problems that other countries have with trading with the EU in any serious detail. Its no walk in the park. There are many non-tariff and technical barriers that complicate it. Becoming a third country will almost certainly lead to loss of trade with Europe that we will regret.

          So given that the EEA-EFTA option restores so much sovereignty – why bother leaving the single market??

  41. Choked with leaflets
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Just got two more leaflets through the post from the Labour Party, from Northhamptonshire. The last one was from there too. They were general as they hadn’t a clue who my prospective Labour MP might be. No mention of Corbyn. Photos of a female OAP and on another a doctor. Neither of them are candidates. Had one from the prospective candidate earlier. No mention of Corbyn. Is Corbyn still leader?
    The Labour Election campaign nust be costing them dearly.

  42. Bryan Harris
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    It really is time that we all recognized the fact that all of those on the left; Green, libdem,SNP, labour, have only their interests at heart………… Socialists to a man – they pretend to offer something of value but lack any common sense.

    The Tories are not always perfect, but at least they are not yet destructive or dogmatic and do not preach craziness.

    It really is time that everyone understood that the hard left parties above are irrational at best and will never create a decent society for us.

  43. Turboterrier.
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    In all the years I have been able to vote and there have been more than a few! I cannot not remember such a lack lustre, inept, bordering upon mindless campaign being presented to the electorate by our party.

    That all said John I wish you the very best for tomorrow.

    Hopefully for the country those stars who sit with you on the back benches will be elevated to higher positions because if we did not need them in the past we really need them and their drive and experience now as never before.

  44. lojolondon
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    LibDems are neither Liberal nor Democratic. Just a sounding board for all the BBC’s favourite viewpoints, in order to gain maximum (favourable) publicity. Speaking of which, I believe that the BBC’s bias during the run-up to this election has made it’s position untenable, the Conservatives owe it to democracy to stop the TV Tax.

    • rose
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

      I do hope you fare well tomorrow. Never will a seat be better deserved.

  45. mike fowle
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    The election IS about Brexit, because ultimately that dictates who governs us. A mandate in an election gives her the authority to bring the House of Lords to heel. Those who think it is a conspiracy to deliberately undermine Brexit sound frankly barking to me. People should surely stop indulging their piddling concerns and concentrate on the ultimate prize.

  46. hefner
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Would it not be good to have the alternative Conservative (Mr Reid) voted in in Maidenhead, with the rest of the country voting for plain vanilla Conservatives. One stone, two birds, and a more likely successful Brexit not led by Mrs May?

  47. Qubus
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Good luck to you tomorrow JR. I trust that you will have a good majority. I shall be voting Conservative, not that I think that they deserve to win on the basis of their campaign. IT is difficult to imagine a worse one. It is a fact that Mrs May is not good on her feet. However, the alternative is just too apocalyptic to contemplate.

  48. APL
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Dear Mr Redwood, I would be interested in knowing if the terrorist attacks at London bridge will be catagorized by the Metropolitian police as Racially motivated, Religiously motivated or Hate crimes?

    Since there seems to have been three perpetrators, will there be three times as many racial, hate or religious motivated crimes, since there were three individual acting in concert.

    Or will the Metropolitan police try to cook the books and claim it was one incident?

  49. acorn
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    There is one thing for sure tomorrow. The UK will get the government it deserves and nothing better. “Stupid is as Stupid does”, as Forest Gump would say.

    We will end up with the same old, same old. We will be directed to elect carpet bagger candidates, selected for us by the Westminster and Metropolitan elite. They have rigged the system, to make sure that our “rotten borough” democracy; anchored somewhere between the Elizabethan and Victorian era, will not be challenged by young progressives with new ideas.

    To add insult to tomorrows injury, the new government of amateurs, gets to do the Brexit thing, up against some of the best Techies in the EU Commission. If you got a God, I’d start praying!

    • libertarian
      Posted June 8, 2017 at 11:36 am | Permalink

      acorn

      Agree 100% and totally with your first two paragraphs

      The last one however the facts dont support you the “EU techies” have a spectacular history of failure on negotiating trade agreements

  50. Simon Platt
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    The so-called Liberal Democrats are neither of those admirable things. They are more extreme than Labour, more extreme even than the Greens.

  51. Iain Gill
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Never seen an election which was such a mess of confused policies and mixed up approaches.

    Don’t want any of the above is I think the majority view of the country.

    People will vote for least worst, and that’s the best that can be said.

    • libertarian
      Posted June 8, 2017 at 11:38 am | Permalink

      IG

      Agree, this is the worst election in my long lifetime. None of them are actually worth voting for. I think the Monster Raving Loony Party have become the “strong & stable, for the many not the few” party with more sensible policies than any of the others

  52. Prigger
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    JR …You only got 32,329 votes in the 2015 Election out of 55,999 votes cast. So you need to try this time. Good luck!

  53. Glenn Vaughan
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Good luck for tomorrow John.

    Once again we see the importance of the three Rs represented by Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell and Nicola Turgid whose collection of ideas are Repellent, Repugnant and Repulsive.

  54. Jack snell
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Listened to her being interviewed on channel 4 news.. and am now more convinced than ever that she is telling porkies.. the eu negotiators will have a field day when it comes yo the talks because she will reverse and fold under pressure all the way.. a vote for theresa and the tories this time will be a wasted vote.. i can’t see it any other way.

    • Limited
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

      Anyone voting for her on the basis she will be strong in the Brexit talks is not paying attention. She is weak weak weak

      • Glenn Vaughan
        Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

        Is Mr Corbyn a stronger alternative?

        • Len Grinds
          Posted June 8, 2017 at 6:38 am | Permalink

          Certainly. He means what he says, he has done for 30 years. You might not like what he says, but you know where he stands.
          Do you have any clue where Mrs May stands, with her uncosted manifesto, her failure to turn up to the TV debates, her evasion of questions put to her by journalists?

  55. MPC
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    I agree with your assessment of the Lib Dems. But at least they are offering a democratic choice by saying they stand for the UK rejoining the EU in due course, the only Party to do this.

    Who knows that idea may even gain some traction in the future!!

    • Eric Bloodaxe
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

      MPC
      Yes but the LibDems have already established that people haven’t a clue what they are voting for. Therefore we should stay out of the EU until LibDem voters have been coaxed down out of the trees and educated. I suggest showing them first how to make a stone hammer.

  56. Terry
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    It has been almost a year since we decided to get out of the basket(case) that is the EU. Yet, despite a democratically voted Referendum, there are those who still wish to change the rules, move the goalpost and suggest things like the perceived ‘dumb’ people who voted to Leave, did not know what they were voting for. very insulting
    Ironic that this proposition is never announced after a General Election when their party gains too many seats. Obviously, democracy is only valid when it works in their favour.

    The over riding principle to Leave, for me, is the same as that of dear Tony Benn way back in the 1970’s, prior to our vote on the .Common Market, scam.
    That was one time we all should have listened to that die-hard socialist. See here https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/a-lesson-from-the-1975-referendum/

    And it is all because of the terrible, terrible LOSS OF BRITISH SOVEREIGNTY IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, WHATEVER THE COST. There really is no other greater reason to leave than that. We must never surrender our wonderful Country to foreign rule.

    World Wars, with huge costs in lives and money, were fought to preserve it and we must never never surrender it.
    So, I do hope in voting tomorrow even the socialists remember the wise words of the ultra left Tony Benn. And Brexit means LEAVE.

    • Bell
      Posted June 7, 2017 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

      Terry
      If our people vote for a cocktail of mixed-up politics of the Coalition of Chaos, it will hurt. It will serve them right. But it will still hurt. The Socialists will not remember wise words. The chronological adults among them already know Socialism does not work. It has been tried over a century in many countries in a variety of pick and mix leftist interpretations of the Gospel according to St Karl Marx. Many devout and indeed honest Socialists tried heroically, many going to their deaths, fighting for the Cause. We must not be churlish. We should salute them. They genuinely fought for the Good.
      Labour Leaders know Socialism does not work. I pray the Labour Party will be eliminated in our democracy starting 8th June 2017. So many young people need a proper education. So many of them via the Labour Party have dropped out of higher education, dragged their coats in the mud, pressure put on them to leave their studies by the moronic.They have been distracted from building a career and job. The Labour Party has wasted so many lives of their most enthusiastic and genuine followers, used and abused them. This is what adult Left Leaders do each generation. They are straight from Hell!

      • Terry
        Posted June 9, 2017 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

        Sadly, we have lost even the small majority we had. What can Brexit do now?

        I do not know the rules but JW is it possible to revoke The Treaty of Rome without a Parliamentary Bill top do so? That appears to me to be the only way we can circumvent the wretched Remainers that now sit gloating within Parliament.
        I do not trust the Labout MPs to vote for Brexit now.

  57. John
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    The Lib Dems are so passionate and sanctimonious in their lofty ideals but all too swift to drop them.

    Proportional Representation was their moral high ground for so long, the rest of us were morally inadequate. Yet when the Conservatives gave them their wish they opted for Alternative Vote and dropped PR like a brick.

    Tuition Fees we know about. They were so morally superior and passionate yet in government dropped that like a lead balloon.

    How many times have they swapped between ‘Parliamentary democracy’ where by they decide our future and a referendum. After the June result they wanted MPs to decide whether to accept the Referendum with such passion, then later they want a Referendum!

    They are pointless.

  58. Got the tee-shirt
    Posted June 7, 2017 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    So the Corbynista rallies. So many young people with nice little backpacks, walking boots and shoes, slender bodies, unkempt rained-on hair , so enthusiastic they have thumbed lifts wihout caution to destinations to hear The Great Leader, slept in hostels, or on someone’s floor ( a comrade ), trying to keep awake listening to Corbyn for they thumbed during early morning, making the crowd look big for TV cameras, not doing their work for Uni or college of Tech.Eating perhaps sandwiches with a loaf bought on their travels .Important crucial matters to save The People, save The Country, save Poor People. And 1949 Corbyn looks upon their genuinely pathetic trusting young souls without a morsel of pity. Such public abuse of the Young . And other politicians sit in TV studio in his presence…instead of walking out on him

  59. Na
    Posted June 9, 2017 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    It was not a vote on Brexit it was a vote to get rid of May

  60. RDM
    Posted June 13, 2017 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    So, now she will be backed into a corner, where the Elitists’ left wing of the Conservative Party will want a “Soft Brexit”. Defined as a Customs Union with Puesdo Single market control.

    Re: Radio 2 Jeremy Vine show.

    So, in the European Union, but with no Rights!

    Surely, it must be out of the Single Market and Customs Union ?

    That’s what I voted for!!!

    O, why on earth is the PM accepting the Customs Union!

    Have I heard this wrongly?

    Regards,

    Roger Moore.
    PS: Just allow Euro Clearing to find it’s own home! But watch the ECB & EU don’t find some long stick they can use across the water! If anything, most will go to NY, anyway!

    Reply The government policy is to leave the Customs Union

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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