Why was there never any opposition to EU policies from Labour, the Lib Dems and Greens?

One of the things I most disliked about our period of membership of the EU was the complete absence of effective opposition to many of its plans, policies and laws. Policies that would have produced howls of protest if recommended for domestic decision by a Conservative government went through unopposed or little observed as long as they came from Brussels.

In the EU itself the Council of Ministers acting as legislature usually met in secret session. There was no formal opposition to expose the problems with a proposal, so it was only draft laws that annoyed a particular member state government that got any proper scrutiny. The European Parliament was a bit more capable of voicing criticisms, but contained an overwhelming majority of representatives who welcomed extensions of EU power and were therefore often willing to go along with new laws as each one helped with that aim.

It is bizarre that the Green party has never in the UK kicked up a big fuss about VAT on green products, for example. Strange that Labour and the Liberal Democrats offered no opposition to the UK joining the Exchange Rate Mechanism, one of the worst economic policies pursued post war. They otherwise opposed any Conservative government economic policy that was made in the UK. Where was Labour’s voice demanding a more ambitious renegotiation when Mr Cameron set out to buttress the UK’s membership of the EU by seeking only modest reforms to try to reflect growing public disquiet with what the EU was doing?

Instead Labour in office 1997-2010 and Labour in opposition 2010-15 tried to avoid talking about the EU as much as possible, and tamely allowed EU measures to pass without criticism. The EU was able to give us the beef crisis, the fishing discards disgrace, the ERM recession, the movement of people well ahead of the Labour’s government’s planning figures, dear energy and much else besides without a squeak of protest. This lack of criticism over so many huge areas of policy made more voters sceptical of the project and worried about what it was doing to our robust tradition of criticism of governments. The ERM alone cost us around 6% of our National Income, or Β£120bn a year!

Now we have Mr Corbyn apparently taken hostage by the Blairites, now saying he wants us to stay in the single market, customs union and freedom of movement area. That will drive a big wedge between him and the many Brexit supporting Labour voters in the northern cties.

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56 Comments

  1. Nerwmania
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 5:19 am | Permalink

    As there is now a majority for staying in the EU Mr Corbyn`s change of stance will help overall and in any case it was clear at the last election that the Brexit was a low priority for many of its supporters.
    My contempt for Corbyn`s ideas is almost limitless, ( unlike John who seems to like him) but he has offered Remain a seat at the table and that is a great deal more than the Brexit Party.TINA Corbyn it must be.
    I now expect himto become PM

    John you are off message here , I think the Tory line is that there isn`t any real difference . As with any Brexit line , the n is optional, I cease to listen

    • Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:34 am | Permalink

      Please reads Stephen Kinnoch on Labour List.
      He seems to be the only politician who had his head screwed on and who has really done his homework.
      https://labourlist.org/2017/08/stephen-kinnock-we-can-have-single-market-access-and-progressive-reforms-to-free-movement/

      Reply There are a good few of us who have done our homework and read the relevant documents. Mr Kinnock’s proposal would require the EU and its members to agree to all sorts of things they are not currently offering, and would mean we still had not properly left the EU.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 9:25 am | Permalink

        Your mentor and so also you have now strayed into working for the enemy, the heroes given praise day by day are all on the other side.

      • Posted September 1, 2017 at 10:34 am | Permalink

        Mike and Nerwmania,

        Get it through your heads: we want out. The matters outlined by Kinnock should have been discussed and agreed within the Labour Party BEFORE the referendum, not part way through the Article 50 notification period.

      • Posted September 1, 2017 at 10:43 am | Permalink

        That is a very poor reply by you John. Very. EEA /EFTA membership has very little to do with the EU and does not depend on them offering us anything.

        The precipitous and indecent haste with which this government has committed us to leaving the EU Customs Union while also ruling out continued EEA participation without any proper analysis is pathetic.

        And may I also remind you that the formal position of your own government as given by DD in the Commons is that “no decision” has yet been made on EEA. The same response was given by Counsel for the Sec State when asked in the High Court . Hence those proceedings are stayed not dismissed.

        Reply There has been endless planning and study. We do not need to belong to the EEA.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted September 1, 2017 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

          How on earth can you say “EEA/EFTA membership has very little to do with the EU” when the EU itself is one of the contracting parties to the EEA Agreement, along with each of the EU member states? How do you suppose that the UK could transition from being an EEA member state but on the premise that it is an EU member state, to some new status such as being an EEA member state but on the premise that it is an EFTA member state, without the consent of all the other EEA contracting parties including the EU itself as well as Switzerland, which is the non-EEA EFTA member state?

    • zorro
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:51 am | Permalink

      What majority for staying in the EU?!? Only in your fevered imagination I suspect. You make it up as you go along. There was a recent vote in Parliament endorsing leaving the single market/customs union. Let’s see people put their money where their mouth is!

      zorro

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 8:01 am | Permalink

      Newrmania

      Oh for goodness sake, stop making up children’s stories. From what I hear all those in favour of leaving still are. As for Mike Stallard, the EU have had plenty of opportunities to offering more reforms to the UK but failed to do so. There have been plenty of chances so what makes you think they want to give us anything now? I see nothing of any worth on the table.

      • ian wragg
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 11:41 am | Permalink

        Mike Stallard is Richard Norths spokesperson on earth.
        His every utterance is passed on to this and many other blogs.
        Remainers dressed as leavers.

        • Mark B
          Posted September 1, 2017 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

          That is a little unfair. He is, like you and me, entitled to his opinion and to voice his concerns, even if they are via Dr. R.E. North.

          Dr. North has worked in the EU (for UKIP) and has studied the EU and written a best selling book. I too have read most of what he has written, and not all of it to do with the EU by the way, and have found his work to be of good quality.

          As a person, he is his won worst enemy and will only tolerate those that agree with him. Not a wise thing for such a clever man. But does that make him, Mike and others wrong ?

          I seem to remember our kind host dismissing Article 50 and just advocating repealing the ECA 1975. Although he now remembers things a little differently πŸ˜‰

          I await the out come in 81 weeks, 6 days and 7 hours.

          But who’s counting πŸ™‚

      • Leslie Singleton
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

        Dear fedup–Wonder what Cameron thinks of idea of EU reforming itself–What a joke. Also wonder how proud of himself Cameron is in general and specifically what his word has been proven to be worth–We should be well on the way out now instead of the ridiculous position we are in

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 9:20 am | Permalink

      Has there been another referendum? When was it? Why did nobody tell me?

    • Bob
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 9:59 am | Permalink

      “there is now a majority for staying in the EU”

      I wondered what had happened to Comical Ali, and up he pops. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

      • Mitchel
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

        More like Chemical Ali,if you ask me!

        • Bob
          Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

          Chemical Ali
          I see what you mean…
          πŸ™ƒπŸ€§

  2. dame rita webb
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    Interestingly enough I have never seemed to hear a word of opposition from the TUC after it became mesmerised by Delors. The average union leader (usually a on six figure pay package) probably does not really care about British factories being closed down and relocated to Eastern Europe or wages being undercut by cheap imported labour. To think otherwise would be “racist”. I wonder if Corbyn has read Keir Hardie’s thoughts on the importation of foreign miners into the Scottish coalfields?

  3. Peter Wood
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,

    Part of the answer to your question here is that MP’s reflect the interests of their constituencies; if we as voters don’t show much interest in the way we are governed then we deserve what we get. Another reason is we were told the EU and its predecessor was all about facilitating trade. Thankfully the worm is turning.
    A question for you, Dr. Redwood, I hear a lot of aspirational words from Mr. Davies about maintaining tariff free and frictionless trade, but we do not hear the same intent from the EU side, it may therefore be supposed that they have no intention to agree such terms. Is the UK government working on a ‘plan B’ to advise and assist UK industry to prepare for WTO terms come 2019?

    Reply Yes of course – investment in electronic borders, Customs legislation and a Trade Bill to ensure we can trade well without an agreement

    • zorro
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 7:15 am | Permalink

      Indeed, Mr Clock Tick’s withering look when DD answered him with ‘free trade’ in reply to what the Single Market was about tells you all you need to know. This is a low growth, protectionist club. The EU sees the Single Market as something that controls, manages, standardises, regulates trade and certainly not liberates it!

      zorro

  4. Duncan
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    My father is a northern based Labour voter. Indeed, he’s been a Labour voter since a young man. He’s now 78 years old. He was raised to hate the Tories and yet my father’s a staunch patriot and monarchist. He despises Corbyn and yet he still voted Labour at the last GE. Why? It is a cultural phenomena but he said this to me and I quote, ‘If the Tories stood up and gave a solemn promise that they would take the UK of the EU in its entirety then he would vote Conservative’

    Of course he doesn’t believe that this PM and indeed the Tories want to take the UK out of the EU in its entirety either so he’s left with no option but to continue to back

    We have a PM in May (who I now see you have backed Mr Redwood) who is unprincipled, pro-EU and an interventionist. She’s without conviction. Northern Labour voters want to see Thatcher reincarnated. Strong, pro-UK, defiant and confident in their beliefs. May’s lacking in all of these. She’s everything the northern voter despises

    Until the Tories understand the mentality and personality of the northern based Labour voter they will never succeed in that region

    • dame rita webb
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:49 am | Permalink

      You forgot to add the word inept to your description of Mrs May. Just remember her track record at the Home Office and the loss of the majority at the last election. I would also like to add delusional to the mix too. With the rubbish she is coming up with it the minute e.g. reducing the red tape to get your sex change legally recognised does she really think this is going to win a general election?

      Reply Mrs May just helped the Conservatives get the highest share of the vote this century by a long way, and allows us to form a government to get on and implement Brexit. Having another 3 months off for a leadership election where different candidates would have to stomp round the country with different views of how to handle the EU talks would be a delight to the EU and damaging to the national interest.

      • zorro
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 7:21 am | Permalink

        I think John’s words reported on another site were ‘Fine by me’…. There is a world of difference between supporting someone for a purpose and worshipping the ground they walk on!

        zorro

      • dame rita webb
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 7:38 am | Permalink

        JR its seats in the HoC that allow you to form a government not the share of the vote. Sorry but this sounds like Corbynista double think on how they “won” the last general election. The political text books say that a PM who lost a majority would be out on their ears. However due to the lack of talent to replace her you are stuck with her and I bet you wish you had your “magic circle” back so she could be removed to the lecture circuit asap.

        Reply We have a majority with the DUP, and probably can win all the big votes on our own anyway. We won the two votes where the opposition tried hardest by 14, the others usually by 30 or 40.

      • Mark B
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

        Reply to reply

        Your loyalty is admirable. Misguided, but admirable. Oh ! And it won’t get you a job.

        She set out to deliver a, “Strong and stable government.” She lost her closest advisers and the Conservative Parties majority. All agree she is a lame duck PM and should / will be replaced – soon !

      • Leslie Singleton
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

        Dear John–Nobody said a leadership election (a pox on which)–May should have gone by now after a ridiculous Manifest0 which was landed on everybody secretly as an overnight fait accompli, apparently on purpose as regards the latter to stifle opposition but followed by panicked last second “nothing has changed” idiotic backsliding. Anyone capable of failed judgement like that should have been got rid of, never mind her remain and pro Government instincts.

    • Mel Cornwell
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 7:32 am | Permalink

      Duncan: *strong, pro UK, defiant and confident in their beliefs*..? And he STILL voted for Labour?

      Let’s face some facts, Duncan: Blair dare not front up his activities personally, he knows he is loathed. Instead, he has had his arm firmly up Corblimey’s jacket since well before the GE. So, JC gets ‘promised’ the PM job, he just has to do as he is told… Then, we get a sudden Labour ‘transformation’ manifesto supporting Brexit et al, and even though only days before most Labour MPs were vehemently anti Brexit, we hear barely a peep..?

      Next, at the GE, we see what appears to be heavy ‘traditional’ support for Labour. Except, in reality, much of that number was made up of millions of staunchly NON Labour Remain voters, coerced by Blair/ Miller & Co, piling into the Labour vote in a last ditch attempt at a Brexit coup. Remarkably, despite this traitorous behaviour, the Conservatives still (as John rightly states) won resoundingly.

      The GE ‘swing’ was largely engineered by those Remain voters, most of whom would not normally touch the Labour party with a bargepole. This tells us that MANY ‘traditional’ Labour voters DID in fact vote for the Conservatives, even though some (like your father, Duncan) still could not find it within themselves to do the right thing for their country.

      You just can’t help some people…

  5. Mark B
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    Yes, but none of this would have ever happened if the Conservative Party under, Edward Heath took us into the then EEC in the first place. And where was the opposition, even from within his own party, to such a momentous decision for our country ? There was nothing said in the Conservative Manifesto’s of past elections or, a referendum on joining the EEC.

    The ERM was indeed a terrible mistake, a mistake that could have very well been avoided but, Europhiles in the Conservative Party wanted in. To this day they have never accepted the enormous, and it was enormous personal and well as financial damage it caused. It directly lead to three New Labour and Labour governments being elected and all the disastrous policies that have lead us to a place that the current so called Conservative government are happy to keep us in.

    The true Conservatives amongst us want to envision a better future with smaller State involvement and cost. That to me is the litmus test and anything short is just Labour and Socialism by another name.

    • Mitchel
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 9:59 am | Permalink

      The Tory establishment long ago accepted that socialism was inevitable(Ivan Maisky,the wartime Soviet Ambassador,in his wonderful diaries,informs us that “weak”Anthony Eden told him so).Ever since they have used the Marxist dialectic to con you while securing their future by turning themselves into the Commissar class,every bit as keen as Labour in directing every aspect of our lives-and being well remunerated for it-but less honest about it.And it continues today with May’s whig-bolshevist “change” agenda.

      • Mark B
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

        The Establishment have always been a bit Left Wing. Mostly National Socialist / Fascist and some Communist.

        It has only been the people who have been conservative with a small ‘c’. They may vote Labour, but they are very traditional and do not like change.

        • Mitchel
          Posted September 2, 2017 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

          Not always,but ever since the Russian revolution and the fear it put up them.

  6. eeyore
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    So long as it’s anti-British, that’s fine with the oikophobes on the Left (oikophobia – hatred of one’s own kind – the opposite of xenophobia).

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

      Dear eeyore–I wish xenophobia was used correctly–to mean Fear of foreigners, which I doubt many have (Phobos was the God of Fear). The word Hate gets used much to much–I could and do say a lot about immigrants and foreigners, especially in the present large numbers, but cannot say that hate comes in to it a great deal.

      • Leslie Singleton
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

        too much

  7. Richard1
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    The reason parties of the left are now so pro-EU (the opposite of the 1970s and 80s) is the leftwards-statist drift of the EU. if socialism, statism, evironmental leftism etc can be imposed without debate and the need for explicit democratic support in the UK, then from the point of view of these parties it’s best to go easy on criticisms of the EU.

    • SecretPeople
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      I was surprised to read in the Guardian the other day letters from the ‘Socialist Labour Party’ (Arthur Scargill, no less) and a representative of the Communist Party, in which they argued the case for leaving the single market and customs union and expressed concern about the effect of EU membership on the British worker. So it seems it it only the champagne type of socialist to wishes us to be tied to the EU.
      Labour’s new soft Brexit policy could create electoral problems.

      • Mitchel
        Posted September 2, 2017 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

        Correct.That is why Corbyn and McDonnell are anti-EU.They seem to have been quiet this week with Starmer being the mouthpiece for the apparent change.I wonder if it will not change again during the course of this parliament.It might depend on what progress they make in eradicating the Blairites from the party apparatus.

  8. alan jutson
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    No opposition to the EU, simply because blaming them afterwards is always a get out clause for failure at home.

    It was “Not us Gov”

    Disgraceful that all Parties have been complicit in giving away our power of self determination and Government, for the greater good of some politicians (many failed ones) who between them have made a very nice living out of it all.
    They are thus all popular within their own little management club of 28 countries.

  9. agricola
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    The EU is a socialist construction, all the parties you highlight are socialist, end of story.

  10. Ed Mahony
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    I agree fully. Many were very quiet in challenging the EU.

    However, no reason to throw baby out with the bathwater. Businesses clearly like the single market. And people will quickly start turning against Brexit once wages and jobs decline as they inevitably will for some years.

    Ultimately what people care about is the economy. Not sovereignty. Immigration. Or the rest.

    Reply When I was single market Minister my diary was full of meetings with business reps wanting me to block or water down draft laws the EU wanted for the so called single market.

    • Ed Mahony
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 7:37 am | Permalink

      Happy to be proved wrong if someone could show me a detailed plan that addresses all the possible weaknesses in leaving the EU (the sort of report you would produce if you were 1. starting a business 2. organising some big scientific project like a moon landing 3. organising some big military operation). In other words, a risk assessment and the steps that have been planned to deal with potential obstructions. For example:

      – How the economy will continue to grow whilst we re-jig our economy post-Brexit whilst paying off our national debt etc … If the economy stalls, people will quickly turn against Brexit

      – How to keep Labour out of power. If they get into power, they will add only greater economic burden to the country, undermining Brexit.

      – How to keep immigration down whilst not have a negatively impacting our economy. Immigration was one of the main reasons people voted to leave.

      Again, i find no detailed arguments that addresses these points. Just as you wouldn’t invest time and or money in a company, a big scientific project or a big military operation without a detailed plan, including RISK ASSESSMENT, so why should i and others invest loyalty in Brexit when there is no such plan. Sure there are major problems with the status quo, but at least we still have the possibility of reforming the EU. Outside the EU, we’ll have no power but we’ll be outside the EU based on an initiative that isn’t based on a proper plan, but on vague plans and hopes.

      Reply I have set out here many of the features of a post Brexit policy that can produce a more prosperous and successful UK. The whole point of Brexit is it frees us to make our own decisions, spend our own money, settle our own laws, determine our own trade arrangements. Our trade has been growing faster with non EU countries than with EU countries in recent years anyway, despite the barriers the EU places in the way of non EU trade. We have thought it all through. There are plenty of country role models, none of them members of the EU.

      • Ed Mahony
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 7:45 am | Permalink

        That’s just the economy. Leaving the EU doesn’t even address important geopolitical questions such as how will leaving the EU make our continent more safe and secure, not forgetting how Europe has been a hotbed for violence and war, over the centuries, including the recent past, which inevitably affects us one way or the other.

        Ireland is a great example. The EU helped to get Ireland out of its dire poverty. A poverty that helped to feed the violence of the troubles. And a prosperity that now means the UK can now export Β£17 billions worth to Ireland every year. If Ireland’s prosperity is replicated across the EU – and, yes, it will take time with many hiccups along the way, the geographical part of the world the UK is part of is more secure and safe and the UK has more strong trading partners to trade with close by (not forgetting how many businesses and companies, in particular the weaker ones, depend on their closest geographical neighbours) that are protected from more aggressive competitors from outside the EU – in Asia, America and so on.

    • Ed Mahony
      Posted September 1, 2017 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      I don’t doubt you, sir, and i obviously respect you for who you are and your experience. Saying that, i can only go with the evidence that i see overall, and the evidence, as i see, is that businesses are very concerned about leaving the single market.

      And I’m concerned for my family, friends, and my country. I don’t predict economic disaster. But i can see economic decline.

      Reply Many businesses welcome Brexit and the overwhelming majority of businesses will be untouched by it as they are small businesses who do not trade in the rest of the EU

      • Ed Mahony
        Posted September 1, 2017 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

        ‘But i can see economic decline’

        – which no doubt will normalise after 10 to 20 years. Perhaps even do better (but i can’t see anything dramatic). But it’s a big price to do better (and no guarantee). Whilst so many hurdles and so much stress on the way that could easily cause Brexit to collapse, and we have to return to the EU (under worse conditions), and/or it could cause a crisis in Europe (rebounding on us), as well as not helping the peace and security of Europe in general.

        Reply The growth rate and fate of our economy is mainly in our hands, and more so ponce we are out. No reason for decline or slower growth

  11. Bryan Harris
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Its all about a dereliction of duty, which is what it boils down to – alongside the fact that socialist parties alleged morals are flexible…

    We entered the EU desperately, so it seems – union wars were reducing the country to anarchy, and the politicians of the time saw the country going to the dogs – so they lied about the EU which they saw as some kind of saviour… the politicians that followed perpetuated the lies, and all were subsequently, (because of these lies), unwilling to question effectively what the EU was doing… because they were a part of the deceit.

    I don’t blame the greens, libdems or labour for the way they ignored the worst of what the EU could throw at us – it was in their nature to be hypocrites, capitulaters, and quislings – simply, I don’t expect anything better of such parties.

    We can however put plenty of blame on the way the EU functions – It was all set up using the French civil service as a model… so it all worked well for the French – they knew how to manipulate the system and get what they wanted… which made life very difficult for the UK when it tried to get some rationality into the system.
    Yes, of course, the EU does a great many things in secret – decisions are made behind closed doors with little or no debate – MEP’s are mostly of one mind, coming from a socialist background….. which is one of the reasons our socialists just fall in line behind the EU…

    The EU parliament itself is a travesty – there is no official opposition to voice concerns about policies – they have organised it so that MEP’s are grouped, and broken up, by political make up – and they make sure that there can be no real inhibitors towards integration by making everyone, that goes with the flow, club members.

    There is a common theme that runs through all of this dereliction of duty amongst UK MP’s – despite most being un-religious, they see the EU as a divinity – they are enthralled with the misbegotten concept that we all have to be identical, all the same, and part of one huge entity that will think for us and be kind to us all in a benign way – being all together will take away all the pain of fighting against the world, as the EU would resolve all conflicts and life would be so wonderful – It’s a neurotic dream of course – I call it the Startrek dream world, as it has no basis in reality – but it is unfortunately how so many of these people think and why they were so willing to sell us into bondage.

  12. miami.mode
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    Indeed, I’ve always found it strange that many of our MPs, who pride themselves on being lawmakers and legislators, have simply rubber-stamped directives and laws that were enacted in Brussels. Servile sycophants is possibly too strong as they would probably class themselves as pragmatists.

  13. Ian Wragg
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    It was a Tory government that took us into the EU. A Tory government signed Maastrict and a Tory government that took us in to the ERM.
    We have had a Tory government Cameron and his mates rabid EU supporters and a very pro EU Parliament.
    This is despite the majority of the population being against the EU.
    We are fighting a very uphill battle to escape the clutches of Brussels.

    • Terry
      Posted September 2, 2017 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

      And Labour Government that first denied the British people a vote on the Lisbon Treaty. And it was Harold Wilson who was PM at the time of the 1975 Referendum.
      We sure have had a lot of politicians out of touch with the people. Alas, no change there.

  14. fedupsoutherner
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Socialism and the EU go hand in hand. Everyone giving away freebies as long as it’s not their money. Who pays? The little man – or should I say the little hard working man.

  15. Prigger
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    The Labour Party is not a British Party except technically in terms of the law, geography.
    The Lib Dems do not think seriously about so much.
    The Greens do not think.

  16. Epikouros
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Whenever a group of people congregate together to debate issues the discussions always focuses on the least and usually the most irrelevant part of the matter to hand. The most important and relevant parts are either given scant regard or none at all. The reason why can be for a number of factors such as lack of knowledge, incompetence, partisanship, obfuscation and lack of intellectual ability. The left Labour, Lib-Dims, Greens, other Europhile MPs and the like can be said to be guilty of all those attributes hence their lack of attention or resistance to the excesses of the EU and it’s subjugation of the UK .

    It took a referendum for the people of the UK to put this dreadful state of affairs right and say that running rough shod over their democratic rights is no longer going to be tolerated. If our politicians had been up to their job in the first place we would never have joined the common market in the first place. Or at least when it was recognised that doing so was a mistake as the UK had been sold a pup they should have done their job and taken us out again a long time ago.

  17. Terry
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Regarding the Council of Ministers in Brussels
    They always meet in secret session with no published agenda and no published nor (as far as anyone knows), recorded minutes. Why is this?
    Furthermore, the decisions they make are handed over to the commission who then instruct some of their hundreds of sub committees to beaver away at introducing the new directives and regulations without any reference to us (because we have already signed a treaty which binds us to work towards ‘ever closer union’) This supreme power means that the Council of Ministers should really be called the ‘Collective Dictatorship’ of the EU. An Oligarchy.

    I would ask of all those who advocate we remain in the EU, who would accept that Theresa May, DC, TB, even Margaret Thatcher or Winston Churchill, should come into the commons and say -” enact that into law because it’s what I’ve decided”. There would be howls of outrage – but – because the Council of Ministers do just that as it’s part of the EU, it’s OK!!!! Why the silence over EU dictatorial procedures?
    Why do the anti Brexit factions ignore the clear and present danger to OUR democracy here?
    I would like to know when do the Council of Ministers ever meet open session, if so, can we read the minutes? Perhaps the Remoaners can tell me.

  18. ian
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    The eu is globalist organization, and has taken over many countries, and is now 28 countries in size, and looking to take over more countries as is goes. The people of these countries have no idea that the politician they have been electing are globalist politician who have next no consideration for there own countries and are in all of parties in each countries in eu, like the uk, you cannot vote in the uk unless it for a globalist politician. The institution in the world are run by globalist ie world bank, IMF, you name it even the pope is a globalist, while most people in these counties are nationalist. Russia get attack all of the time because it is a nationalist country, and will never join, so they section it off from the rest of the world or try to. Eu will grow bigger till all the countries in Europe are under it control apart from russia, and now even want turkey and the ME in the eu if they can work it. Companies are behind globalization with people with lots of money having their goods made in china for bigger profits with no tax, immigration from ME and africa will not stop coming to europe and uk, because that where the globalist have the infrastructure and countries with money to sell their goods, also that what overseas aid is all about, so those countries have more money to buy there goods, while the people in europe and uk get poorer and live on debt to buy goods, as you can see you are paying for it all.

    • Mitchel
      Posted September 2, 2017 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

      “even the pope is a globalist”

      The papacy was arguably the world’s first supranational organisation,claiming the right to authorise/legitimise the rulers of the successor states of the western Roman Empire-based on a forgery-the “Donation of Constantine the Great” whereby the latter (who had moved the Imperial capital from Rome to Constantinople)was supposed to have given this right to the Pope in Rome .It was a major cause of the break between the East and West of the Roman/Christian world which continues to this day with the tension between Russia and its satellites and the EU/US.

  19. Freeborn John
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Good job on the BBC evening news last night.

    Reply Thanks

  20. Freeborn John
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    The same lack of criticism was and still is displayed by much of the media who take every word from an unknown beurocrat in Brussels as gospel and never ask any searching questions as they would if a government minister in the same topic.

  21. ian
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Why was there never any opposition to the eu from labour, lib dems, green party, and the majority of the con party, because they are all globalist organization masquerarading as nationalist parties, Ukip is the only nationalistic party in england, but because of the media nobody really votes for them. This is how it goes, If the SNP and labour join up we are in for it, so i better vote for the con party to stop it, instead of voting for what you really want, with stories put out by the media, but dose not matter which party you vote for, because they are all stuff full with globalist politician, who are all for globalization and the eu.
    Left and right and all that is only a smoke screen put out by the media, so that you vote for globalists instead of nationalists, with globalist from the eu and the uk bringing new laws in all the time to dumb you down for the only reason of immigration, integration, interbreeding, and diversity, so they can get more people into the country, with you having no say in the matter, so companies can pay less tax, and make more sales and profits, that why so many offshore companies want to do business hear, because your country is the leader in immigration, and 60% of the companies hear are owned from overseas.
    That why you are always confused, and cannot work out what’s going on with the parties you vote for. You won’t get anywhere by coming out of the eu, because the majority of your politician will still be globalists, that why i tell you not to vote for parties or only vote for MPs who are nationalist like Mr redwood and co, with rest made up of independent people.

  22. ian
    Posted September 1, 2017 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    I am bringing to think, maybe i should not wrote all of that today, because it won’t get to print.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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