Why we voted leave

On 23rd June 2016 17.4 million voters told Parliament we should leave the EU.

Leave voters voted to take back control.

We voted to take back control of our money, our laws and our borders.

We voted to be a sovereign people again.

The overarching aim is to restore our freedoms

To become self governing as we used to be

We wish our Parliaments to frame our laws

To levy and spend out taxes

To make our borders safe

To award the precious gift of citizenship to those we choose to invite

We did not vote in the belief that future Parliaments will always be wise

Nor that they will always get it right

We voted to restore powers to Parliament because it is our Parliament

We can lobby and influence it

We can dismiss it and replace the MPs when they no longer please.

I find it surprising that some find it difficult to understand this overriding wish

For it is based on our long standing pursuit of freedom

It springs from our history

The history of the UK is the story of the long march of every man and every woman to the vote

The story of asserting the rule of law against all, however mighty.

We prize the gift of freedom under the law for all on an equal basis

We share an aversion to slavery

A dislike of military rule

A resistance to arbitrary government

A rejection of the patronising errors of elites

A distaste for overmighty bureaucracies cramping our freedoms

A belief that we should be free to do whatever we please unless the laws prevents it

The signposts to democracy run through Magna Carta to the first Parliaments

From the 1660 settlement to the Glorious Revolution

From the Great Reform Act to the triumph of the suffragettes

We carelessly lost some of these freedoms,

casting away much of the power of our vote and voice

by passing powers to the European Union

We allowed the EU to impose laws we did not want

To levy taxes we disagreed with

And to spend our money as they saw fit

Brexit is designed to recall those lost powers

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226 Comments

  1. Stred
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Yesterday on Sky News a retired civil servant who had been top dog at the Foreign Office was interviewed. He said that, having given away all the freedoms above plus enough money to build HS2, the negotiators had produced a good result and deserved praise for their professional skill. Brexit will not happen as long as the servants are in charge of the house.

    • Hope
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

      JR, we know all this already. Not sure what your point is? May has failed to deliver and is selling the country out. May has failed to deliver the main points in her Lancaster speech including what a transition means, now an extension as a vassal state. It is reported today that the EU will not allow the UK to make a trade deal with the US.

      The question is: What are you going to do about May selling out the country? Will you oust her like the remainers ousted Thatcher?

      There is absolutely no question May has got nothing in return for her complete surrender to all EU demands which is now commented upon world wide. After making the country a national embarrassment when will any of you point out this is a bad deal and is not worth it.

      Rudd, again, makes another appalling decision to make us unsafe etc ed

  2. Mark B
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    And I wonder if this post will be :

    a) Deleted. Like yesterday’s.

    b) Held in moderation. As currently my question as to why.

    c) Posted in full and unedited.

    Let us see shall we ? 🙂

    We voted on the question on the ballot paper.

    What we did not vote on was the route, or method, by which we shall leave the EU.

    We were told all the things that our kind host mentions above. But we were never told about the method by which this could be achieved. I and some here tried. We failed to make everyone, including our kind host, listen. Posts were held in moderation or not posted at all. Fine, it is his site. But the truth will always catch you up in the end. As so it is proving to be.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

      Parliament decided on the question, it was written into Section 1 of the European Union Referendum Act 2015 as passed by members in both Houses:

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/36/section/1/enacted

      “(1) A referendum is to be held on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union … ”

      and the question on the ballot paper was worded to discover the views of the voters solely on that central issue.

      It was known to those who were sufficiently interested in such recondite matters that there is actually a clause in the EU treaties dealing with the withdrawal of a member state, and that is the provision we are using.

      As to what we should aim to achieve during the negotiations prescribed by that treaty provision, both sides accept there are necessarily legal limitations on what can be agreed given that the UK is entirely withdrawing from treaties which, for example, create the EU Customs Union and the EU Single Market.

      I realise this is a painful time for those who had previously hoped that a certain detailed multi-stage withdrawal route would be adopted by the government, and day after day there are complaints about that; however from my point of view I see it as a route which only has superficial attractions and also has some very serious defects which make it unacceptable.

      • Mark B
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 5:31 am | Permalink

        The EEA Option does not require the UK to hand over control of our fishing waters to the EU.

        Whatever the deficiencies of FLEXIT, if you offered people, fisherman especially, the choice between that and what is currently being offered, what do you think they would take ?

        • juter
          Posted March 24, 2018 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

          False dichotomy and you know it.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted March 24, 2018 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

          You are assuming that this is an “option” which is available to the UK and which the UK could unilaterally choose to take up. That is not the case: even if the EEA Agreement was satisfactory, which it would not be, it would require the consent of all the other parties including the EU to the necessary amendments. Given that the EU is already proving to be so disobliging why should you assume that it would be willing to agree to whatever the UK wanted, including for example that the UK would immediately resume control of its fisheries? This is all really delusional: technically or legally there is nothing which could be achieved starting from the EEA Agreement which could not be achieved starting from scratch, the problem is not the legal way but the political will.

        • Hope
          Posted March 24, 2018 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

          Clergy today falsely claiming this humiliating extension brought by Brexiteers! May is a remainer. However it will be spun this is what have achieved, the exact opposite of the truth because the Tory party put a remainer in as PM to defy the electorate! Idiots.

    • graham1946
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

      You are not alone

      Seems considered opinion is not required whereas rants are perfectly acceptable sometimes several times a day from certain people.

      Not sure I’ll bother to waste my time so often.

      • Iain Gill
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

        I think John is feeling the pressure

        He cannot be happy with the joke of Brexit developments from the current govt

        This “How much easier is it to ignore the policy and management errors of those in charge from all parties (e.g Blair and Cameron simultaneously losing control of immigration AND not building public service infrastructure) that have led millions to conclude governments are run by incompetent crooks.” from Dom Cummings sums up the shambles John has to deal with every day.

        • Mark B
          Posted March 24, 2018 at 5:33 am | Permalink

          I too feel for our kind host. But what I posted yesterday contained little more on the subject than what has previously been allowed. The only thing was the first link would not work (pay wall) which showed that people applying for UK Citizenship has been rising

    • John Fitzgerald
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

      The main reason no plan for exit was discussed is, I believe, that there was NO PLAN. The reason is, again I believe, the remain side, including Cameron, had the arrogant attitude that the British people would do as they were told and vote too remain. That was their first mistake of many! It was explained that if we left the European project then we would leave everything including the single market and customs union. I understood that so why do the so called elite reckon we did not?

      Reply I with others set out a full plan of what we wanted from Brexit

      • Heath
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

        Yes, that “full plan” was for the EU to roll over and give us all the benefits of membership but none of the costs. Your arrogance doesn’t look so pretty now

        • stred
          Posted March 24, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

          The civil service was always the enemy, along with big business and EU subsidised media and academia. The plan was to try to negotiate a zero tariff and non-tariff trade deal in the best interests of both sides and if , as was likely, the Commission dug in and pursued a punishment beating for their own perks and bloated pay, then offer and plan for WTO. The civil service has spent 21 months doing little to plan the necessary hardware and Hammond/May have withheld the finance for it. They think it is a waste of money, as they always planned for Brino.

          We could have put 10% on EU cars and substituted them for UK manufactured, made with parts from other Japanese factories or British. We could have put 25% on cheese on screwed The Irish, French, Dutch and Italians, while increasing British.

          Would the arrogant money grubbers be celebrating mugging the UK and patting our collaborating PM on the back now if we had done told them this was the choice? This sell out was planned from the start, legal challenges and all. They have the money from big business , law firms and international subversive financiers. It is all to suit globalist big money.

          • stred
            Posted March 24, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

            done this and told them

        • libertarian
          Posted March 24, 2018 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

          Heath

          And what exactly would be the benefits of membership ?

      • Mark B
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

        Reply to reply

        So what happened to it ?

      • acorn
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

        “I with others set out a full plan of what we wanted from Brexit.”

        Except JR, you had no idea how to deliver it, and still haven’t. The ERG 62 caucus (The Mogglodytes) have turned the Civil Service into an enemy. The very people you need to make it work.

        If Brexit goes tits up, the citizens of Brexitania will be looking for someone to hate; the ERG 62 have made themselves the number one candidate.

      • majorfrustration
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

        and the effect of that and many other comments on this page has been what…… Government does not listen

      • Bob
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

        Did those plans include a decision to secretly fund Jean-Claude Juncker’s EU army? (as reported in the Express on 16th March)

        • rose
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

          From Veterans for Britain:
          ” Everyone with an interest in UK defence should be concerned about the ‘future defence agreement’ in Art 122(2) of the Withdrawal Agreement because it is already mapped out by EU Commission and Cabinet Office (the KitKat).Your MP probably won’t know this.https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_agreement_coloured.pdf
          12:27 PM – Mar 22, 2018″

          There is a petition to sign on this:

          Ensure the UK leaves all EU defence rules, policies and structures on 29/03/19.

          Since November 2016, the UK has joined all parts of the EU’s “defence union” except one, without any vote by MPs. These include finance, command centre and a central budget.
          If the UK stays in them or if any of them go into an exit agreement, as Govt has proposed, the UK will not have left the EU.

          • rose
            Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

            One can’t help suspecting the EU is backing us up over Putin in an attempt to bind us in to all this.

          • Bob
            Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

            @Rose
            Squaring up to Putin ticks the boxes for Brussels and the UK Remainers, a useful common foe to reunite the EU28.

            We shouldn’t underestimate the EU’s determination (desperation) to prevent Brexit.

    • Karen Parrish
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:40 am | Permalink

      I fully agree. Those stories! The exact same benefits of trade with the EU as we have now … the easiest trade deal in human history … pots of cash for the NHS ….. Ireland? o don’t worry about Ireland dear boy …. those German carmakers and Italian Prosecco merchants, they will make sure their governments give the UK what the UK wants …..

      Every story a tall one. Watch now as the Brexiters try to blame the unfolding catastrophe on civil servants, on the EU, on Mrs May. The only people the Brexiters will never blame for the false prospectus they sold us is the Brexiters themselves

      • Anonymous
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

        But Brexiters such as John Redwood are nowhere near the levers of power.

        Remain have full charge – especially in the Civil Service.

      • John C.
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

        You can hardly blame Brexiters for the situation, since they have generally been excluded from the negotiations, which is very much in control of the Remainers; and they are not unhappy to see a general shambles. It “proves” them “right”.

    • getahead
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:44 am | Permalink

      Mark, leaving the EU would not have been so difficult if those in power had been willing to acknowledge the referendum result. As it is numerous impediments to a smooth departure have been introduced on both sides of the Channel.
      It would have helped enormously if our government had not been controlled by big business and liberal elites.

      • JoolsB
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

        and headed by hapless capitulator remainer May who wasted a whole year after the referendum before invoking article 50 and now says we need a two year transition/implementation period because of it.

      • cornishstu
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

        Yes as I have said before there has been a lack of political will to carry out the democratic wishes of the country had there been, we would be out already

    • G Wilson
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      we were never told

      Yes, we were. Article 50 was right there in the Lisbon treaty all along.

      You must have missed “Change or Go”, the thousand-page manifesto published by Business for Britain.

      • Mark B
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

        And you must have missed all my posts on here from YEARS AGO that stated that Art.50 was the only legal means of leaving the EU. 😉

    • Anonymous
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

      Oh grow up.

      There is plenty of diverse comment on this site and I have been left out many times. You don’t ever here me whinge about it.

      • Mark B
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 5:50 am | Permalink

        Until now 😉

    • libertarian
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

      Mark B

      The fact that you fail to understand the process , what you call the route of exit is no ones fault but your own

      Its incredibly simple. The legal and only route for exiting the EU is to trigger Article 50 and then leave ALL parts of the EU within 2 years. Its really not difficult

      • Mark B
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 5:56 am | Permalink

        Err. I did know that, and probably BEFORE you ! But what you fail to see, and others, was predicted as long ago as 2012 on another blog by someone who can school you and others all about the EU.

        The EEA Option was ready made. It would have left the EU with little manoeuvre and therefore, could not cherry pick. Doing things this way is far worse as our kind host is discovering because the person who was advocating the Norway Option knew that both the majority of MP’s, Civil Servants, and the EU itself, plus the MSM would screw us over. The Norway Option was far from perfect but, it would have allowed the UK to exit the EU with its fishing grounds and negotiate AND SIGN trade deals.

        The fact that you do not seem to have understood the process is of course your fault. And I will leave you to your ignorance.

  3. JimS
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    Going by the 2017 party manifestos there should be 590 MPs that share your desire.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

      Is that T May’s idiotic vote for me and I will kick Tory voters in the teath Manifesto and Corbyn’s vote for me and I will give everyone all the money they ever need off the magic money tree and the 50 rich people still in the country after I am elected (and confiscate/thieve assets off landlords and shareholders of course).

  4. Peter Wood
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,

    Not really fully on topic, but it is a good reason to encourage our fellow Europeans who, like us value their independence and freedom, and don’t want to become a province of Greater Germany:

    Mr Juncker, looking rather sheepish, replied: “I wrote the same letter as Mrs Merkel – ask Mrs Merkel if it was the right thing to do.” From today’s Express Newspaper.

    Does it need to be any clearer that the EU bureaucracy answers to just one authority?

    • Mark B
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 5:57 am | Permalink

      He who pays the piper calls the tune. Something that has been long lost on our politicians.

  5. Newmania
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Yes that’s right John we are National of Constitutional quibblers , that’s what did it ( mirth). I don`t mind what story you wish to tell yourselves I just wish you did not injsist on dragging me down the same miserable hole with you.

    Think of a how wonderful partition would be

    Remainia

    Young(er )
    Employed
    Much richer , without the old bloodsuckers
    Better educated
    Respected in the world
    A Hub for Complex services and products arts academia expertise and athleticism
    Better looking ( Brexit voters are usually fat and ugly )
    Trading freely in the world
    Setting the course for Europe
    The top investment portal for the EU
    A Bright future for our children, of which there are many
    Needed by the US as their ally in Europe , not their lap dog
    Controlling debt
    Business friendly
    Modernising services
    Good at sport
    Open friendly
    Funny , well read , great to have round to dinner

    This is the country we could have had , instead of which you voted for blue passports, white people bad teeth and ignorance

    What “we” is it that you think you and I belong to ? There is no we anymore

    • Edward2
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:11 am | Permalink

      Hilarious you open with a boast of higher employment prospects for young people when the rate of youth unemployment in the EU is a scandal.
      Over 50% in several EU nations and an average much higher than the UK

      • Lifelogic
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

        And in the UK it is far too high due to the government incubating the benefit culture plus over taxation and over regulation.

    • DaveM
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:13 am | Permalink

      Not entirely sure how sporting ability aligns with EU membership. Unless you count our inability to play Handball. Hardly a loss to anyone.

      • DaveM
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

        Ps. What a lovely chap you must be.

    • Alison
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:20 am | Permalink

      Newmania, you should be ashamed of yourself.
      Worse, your post is in the same mould of political correctness and peer pressure that is so democratically unhealthy – making it unfashionable, if not worse, to be in favour of Leave.

      You should see from the comments posted here from ‘Brexiteers’ that they are highly knowledgeable, experienced, friendly, tolerant, if angry at what seems to me too often to be insidious behaviour by others. For myself I can add that I was good at many sports, competing internationally in more than one. Happy to take you on.

      I do worry about our host, who works himself to the bone.

    • Anonymous
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

      Full of hate.

      There is nothing but a few dodgy polls to indicate Leavers were older.

      You took part in the referendum. You therefore endorsed it.

      You are culpable.

    • Ageing Ageist.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

      The nearer sixty Ageing Ageist.

      Slipped off to middle class Lewes – safely away from the worst effects.

      What was it you disliked about Islington and its Remain cosmopolitanism ?

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

      Logan’s Run!

    • libertarian
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

      Newmania

      Living in a fantasy world

      Youth unemployment in EU 50%

      Average unemployment 7.3% ( inc UK)

      UK 8116,000 unfilled full time jobs, unemployment 4.3% youth unemployment 11%

      UK

      Worlds largest financial centre

      World leader in Medical devices

      5 of worlds top 10 pharm co’s are UK co’s

      4th largest market for German cars ,

      On and on and on , try looking at what is actually happening, not what you’d like to happen

    • John C.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

      There’s nothing amuses me more than a good parody. It was a parody, wasn’t it?

    • Fairweather
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

      Newmania
      Sovereignty means your freedom
      You need to read ” The Fundamental Law of the European Union ” by the Spinelli group
      This is a proposed amendment of the Lisbon Treaty ( which I don’t suppose you have read either) which spells out what is in store if we remain…..
      Maybe that’s what you want but please read it first
      You can buy the book on line
      Maybe it’s the remainers that are fat, ugly and ignorant………….?

    • libertarian
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 10:22 am | Permalink

      The bad news just keeps on coming ( bad for remainers that is)

      Swiss food giant Nestlé and American online retailer Amazon set to create thousands of new jobs at East Midlands Gateway https://bit.ly/2G1Fywv #jobs #investment

  6. duncan
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Wise words indeed but some choose to associate, for political gain, a desire for sovereignty and independence with nationalism and xenophobia. Such political tactics and the use of slander to shame people into voting in a manner that contradicts their instincts is now part of our political culture

    The hilariously titled liberal left have proven adept at the use of slander and libel to destroy, cajole and criminalise those with normal views and normal opinions.

    Many democratic nations around the world cherish their independence and embrace it as a mother would her child. In the UK, independence, sovereignty and direct democracy as been portrayed as an evil to be slain. It is a travesty that such a strain of thought as been allowed to infect and flourish in British public institutions. I blame my own party for this. We expect Labour to sell their soul to the devil for political gain. It’s what that party does. They appreciate nothing of any value except political capital. I expect more from my party.

    Even MT did the UK a disservice by pandering to the EU. She should have taken us out of the EU in the 1980’s

    What is needed now is something more akin to a coup d’etat. Remove all EU influence from our body politic, our constitution and our legal infrastructure. We want nothing less than an anti-EU enema

    Personally, I would want to see a new leader installed in my own party. May is not a conservative. A new leader that embraces the UK as a sovereign nation and a new leader to radically alter the system (redraw constituencies and abolish the opt-in system in the public sector) to prevent Marxist Labour getting into government

  7. Stred
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Dr Lars Karlson was on the Parliament Channel yesterday. He is an expert on customs automation and was telling the Committee for Brino how existing systems work. He said it would be necessary to place an order now to design the cameras and computers in time to be ready by the end of the transition. The head of the HMRC has said that they are testing their system already.
    Have civil servants prepared the hardware and computers or not in time to leave on 30.3.19.if no agreement is reached.

  8. Heath
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    If any of this banal rant is to be taken seriously, then you should also want us out of the UN, NATO, WTO, etc. Or is it just Europeans you are prejudiced against?

    Reply Nonsense. In these other organisations we still have a national veto for our actions

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:37 am | Permalink

      To reply. Exactly fine to cooperate and join such organisations but not to permanently hand over you sovereinty to them for evermore especially.

      • rose
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 11:51 am | Permalink

        Why can’t Remainiacs tell the difference between co-operation among independent sovereign nations and political union?

    • G Wilson
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      None of those organisations purport to be able to over-rule our legislature, as the EU does.

    • Bob
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

      @Heath

      Is your first name Ted?

      • Mark B
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 6:02 am | Permalink

        ‘They’ seem to have many names 😉

    • Newmania
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      As we did in the EU

  9. oldtimer
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    Agreed 100%.

  10. Peter Miller
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    Hear, hear!

  11. Lifelogic.
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    Surely no one, after the appalling Governments we have suffered under Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron and May can possible think they will always get it right? They got nearly everything wrong and we have the even worse Corbyn waiting in the wings. The point surely is that we can get rid of these people when they do. Albeit often only to replace them with another dope. This is surely better than rule by the profoundly anti democratic EU.

    “We carelessly lost some of these freedoms” not really they were given away without the people’s authority by all the Governments from Heath to Cameron. May even tried to deceive voters into a remain vote with her “we have control of our border by being out of Schengen” lies. The traitorous establishment did not dare to ask permission.

    We allowed the EU to impose taxes ….. by we I assume you mean MPs and governments The people had no say in the matter. They for example voted for Cast Iron, low tax at heart Cameron and got the complete opposite.

    • getahead
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:52 am | Permalink

      You said it already. We were subsumed into the EU by deceit.

    • G Wilson
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

      Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron and May

      You notice what they all have in common? That’s a list of PM’s since the creation of the EU.

      Our last visionary Prime Minister was removed from office before she could become an obstacle to the federalists.

    • mike fowle
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

      Being Eurosceptic is a barrier to advancement. That’s why we have had a succession of second rate ministers. So much talent overlooked deliberately.

  12. Anonymous
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    This post shows that we are still in a referendum campaign.

    I doubt the polls that say young people voted for Remain. All the young people I know voted Leave and are sick of competing with foreigners for their jobs and housing.

    They’re not buying this crap that Gramps has stuffed their prospects.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

      They and their children will ne grsteful we retained UK democracy. Assuming we do under the weak and hapless T May.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

      Anonymous

      So well said , brilliant

  13. Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Yes, these things certainly ARE what we voted for.
    So why are expected to endure a prolonged period of subservience with this pointless ”transition period” instead of climbing as quickly as possible to the sunlit uplands that await us? Is Big Business so powerful that our Government has to kowtow to it?

    • SecretPeople
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

      I just think TM and co never meet any real people (Leave voters). We know she has been on trips with Carolyn Fairburn of the CBI etc. Lobbyists, civil servants bragging about how they’re hoodwinking the public. I wish there were ‘good men/women and true’ at the heart of these negotiations, but, unless they are playing a very deceptively cunning game, I fail to see evidence of that and my hope is fading.

  14. formula57
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    Very well said! (It might be a kindness to provide a copy to Sir Cable.)

    As for our instinct to offer “A resistance to arbitrary government

    A rejection of the patronising errors of elites

    A distaste for overmighty bureaucracies cramping our freedoms”

    the Evil Empire will get along more easily without us I expect.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

      formula57

      Very well said! (It might be a kindness to provide a copy to Sir Cable.)

      He would never understand it.

  15. Lifelogic.
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    May backs “women in business” says the Telegraph today. Typical anti-male discrimination from this silly, pathetic, misguided socialist social justice warier.

    Why not help all businesses by stopping wasting so much on government lunacies, cutting taxes, cutting regulations, going for cheap energy, having real competition in Heath, education and Banking and getting the state out of the way as far as possible. The statistics clearly suggest that women (in general) are just less interest in business and money and usually sensibly more interest in their family & work life balance. Just as fewer women seem to be interested in choosing degrees in Maths, Physics, construction or engineering.

    Such is life, we all make choices in life best if government keep out of it they will only make things worse by increasing taxes and regulations and then pissing down the drain. May herself clearly understands nothing about competitive private businesses or she would not keep nagging & nobbling them with regulations, daft employment laws and endless tax increases.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

      The last thing business needs is ” help ” from government they just want to be left alone, taxes less, regulated to death less and slloed to use cheap enery like other countries.

      When did government ever help anything very much, they cannot run anything much properly themselves ?

      • Mark B
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 6:07 am | Permalink

        Corporates like ‘help’ as it maintains their profits and share price. This allows useless CEO’s and the like to pay themselves over inflated salaries.

        Nice game to be in, much like all these so called charities that need government money 😉

    • Anonymous
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      So long as women are prepared to give up career breaks and work the same hours.

  16. MickN
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Who told you that????
    I thought it was common knowledge that those of us that voted to leave didn’t know what we were voting for. Andy tells us on a daily basis.

    • Andy
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:22 am | Permalink

      You did not know what you were voting for. You knew what you were voting against. You voted against EU membership – but none of you actually voted for anything.
      This is why Brexit is such a damaging mess and national humiliation today.

      • libertarian
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        We know EXACTLY what we are voting for. The only mess we have today is because our remain politicians won’t implement what we voted for.

        Sacked all your staff yet?

      • Edward2
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

        Yet you tell us Andy that all remain voters knew what they were voting for.
        I asked some EU ramain fans what their vision of the EU in the future was.
        I got many different answers.

      • Turboterrier.
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        If you want to be totally ruled by those faceless so called un-elected politicians in the Eu please do me at least a favour and emigrate.

        Loser’s like you are getting beyond a joke you will stoop so low to destroy this country to allow us to be fully controlled by Europe and the perception is you have little or no principles at all to keep banging on about about how silly we were to vote as we did.

        The choice is simple: Sign on or ship out

    • Jagman84
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

      ‘Andy’ needs to read the EU website to see what they (effectively Germany & France) have in store for the other 25 nations. I showed the website to my colleagues at work, prior to the vote, and from only 5 out of 24 intending to vote leave, on the day 21 voted leave and 3 didn’t vote at all. When they got the real picture of the intended EU future, the choice was easy to make.

  17. Richard1
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    The transition deal seems to be an extension of EU membership but with no votes or say. It would have been better just to extend EU membership. The commitment to maintain regulatory alignment if there isn’t ‘another solution’ to the Irish border (non-issue) means the Irish Govt and the EU will reject all U.K. solutions so we keep this regulatory alignment. That sounds like remaining in the customs union and the single market, albeit nominally not being. The ability to talk to third countries about trade deals (but not sign them) is worthless until such countries know whether the U.K. will be free to determine its own trade policy (full regulatory alignment with the EU would mean we won’t be).

    If this is really going to be the deal (it sounds like Norway minus minus),it would probably be best just to remain in the EU.

    • Richard1
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:49 am | Permalink

      There is no significant support in the Country for WTO from March 19 as advocated here, whatever the merits. It would have been better to coalesce behind a Swiss style solution – involving considerable compromise over things like immigration, but a saving in money and freedom over trade policy. That would have been a real improvement over EU membership, I fear what we will get will be inferior.

      Meanwhile the pusillaminois reaction of the Greek Govt to attempts to censure Russia reminds us why we don’t want to be in the EU common foreign and security policy. Boris Johnson’s foolish comparisons with Hitler have also undermined U.K. attempts to get a sensible response. He cannot be PM.

    • Bob
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

      @Richard1

      “If this is really going to be the deal (it sounds like Norway minus minus),it would probably be best just to remain in the EU.”

      No, it would be best to leave with no deal and negotiate when Brussels comes to it’s senses.

    • Mark B
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

      First of all, we cannot change our minds. We are leaving. Albeit in name only.

      Secondly. The reason we are where we are is because of the party that you support. They took us into the then REV which was based on deceit and now they claim we will be leaving , which many here doubt.

      But hey, carry on voting for the Nasty Party. A party that hates this country and people like YOU ! You know you cannot do anything else.

      • Mark B
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

        REV = EEC

    • John C.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

      You could argue (and I don’t) that we’re getting what we as a nation voted for: half in, half out. A pointless and ugly compromise.

      • Mark B
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 6:21 am | Permalink

        Half in and half out was not on the ballot paper I saw. In or out was the only choices and I chose out !

  18. Leslie Singleton
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    Dear John–We want to be able again to treat foreign countries as just that, foreign, and deal with them accordingly and at arms’ length–In particular we don’t want foreigners whose names we can neither spell nor pronounce telling us what to do–Any idea that we would somehow not come to a trade agreement with them is however ridiculous because we are ineluctably each other’s major customer.

  19. hans chr iversen
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    John,

    All great points and valid points.

    I can ‘t help wonder why countries which (by the EIU) that are considered more democratic in the way they operate like, Nordics, Netherlands, Germany, Austria and number of other countries, still believe that being part of the EU is a better solution for them.

    My point being that this is not just about daily democracy as it still works well for lots of countries, which are members of the EU

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:22 am | Permalink

      Dear Hans–Because they (repeat they) consider themselves inadequate on their own and they might be right–Or they might be guilt-ridden and a couple of them are right to be so–All very obvious but what has that got to do with us?

      • hans chr iversen
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

        John,

        Seems to be emphasising the democratic part, which is why I underlined it.

        I can assure you as a \Dane I do not feel guilt ridden and neither is there any reason for the majority of the countries to feel either. So as far as I am concerned your comments are not relevant

    • getahead
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      Is this why there is an upsurge of populist parties in these countries? EU membership may suit the political idealists of those countries but not the citizens who end up paying for it.

      • hans chr iversen
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

        I am not aware of an upsurge in populist parties in Denmark, Finland and in the Netherlands they were defeated so what exactly are you talking about?

    • libertarian
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

      hans

      Because only one of those countries offered their citizens a vote democratically and when the result was “wrong” ignored it….

      I think you’ll find its the politicians of the other countries that believe they’re better off , not the people

      • hans chr iversen
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

        libertarian

        I think you should by have a deeper look about democracy analysed by the EIU and then we can ahve a deeper conversation based on facts. thank you

  20. agricola
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Spot on, make sure there is no wavering. Compromise in negotiation is acceptable ,but not if any of the gains you list are in question. Fishing in our own 200 mile or median territorial waters for instance. No pick and mix on the part of the EU on trade and services, they should be told it is all or nothing.

    • agricola
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:23 am | Permalink

      PS.
      Please try to put an end to PR disasters such as where the next passports will be printed. When you see the triggers sticking out of the ground you are in a minefield. It makes you look as if you have lived on the dark side of the moon all your lives.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink

        Why can even the bureaucratic French do this job more cheaply? That is what we need to address!

      • Tad Davison
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:57 am | Permalink

        Agricola,

        Well said, but it’s worse even than that, this lot are walking through a minefield blindfolded! Worse still, they tied the blindfolds themselves thinking negotiations and leaving the EU is just some sort of game that they must engage in and prolong, not knowing that in reality, they are being manoeuvred into a dangerous place by the opposing side whose motives are less than pure and altruistic.

        It’s pitiful and really frustrating to see.

        Tad

        • Mark B
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

          Tad

          The real irony is they themselves planted said mine’s in the first place.

      • hefner
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:49 am | Permalink

        Regarding DeLaRue (DLAR): this company lost 23% in the last few days, but it had lost 50.9% over the last five years, hardly a sign of support from investors.

        • hefner
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

          And for those who are looking to a bright Red White Blue future, rules on public procurement are also parts of WTO obligations.

  21. DaveM
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Most of us here know all that. It’s the people running your party that don’t seem to realise. I’ve never known such thick-skinned ignorance and arrogance.

    • Alison
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:26 am | Permalink

      My guess is somebody in government said awarding to a continental European business would look good and reassuring to the EU27, rest of the world. As well as taking the cosmetically cheaper bid.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

      DaveM

      I’ve never known such thick-skinned ignorance and arrogance.

      You missed out incompetent

  22. Old Albion
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Unfortunately the Remainiacs many of whom were young voters, have little knowledge of that. They have been brainwashed into believing our country couldn’t survive without the EU.
    Teaching the history of Great Britain has been sacrificed on the alter of ‘every other culture must be learned and honoured’ while the PC led education system brushed over our history.
    Hopefully, when (if) we finally escape the clutches of the EU. We will once again rise as a beacon of Democracy and success, for the world to wonder at.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:52 am | Permalink

      Hopefully, but not if we end up with Corbyn or May types in charge.

    • hefner
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

      What about another possible reading of British history: Could it be that the populace keeps being fed a continuous story of grandeur and exceptionalism, when in fact from the Empire onwards there have been, among some brilliant features and exceptional people, also numerous and repeated instances with a rather poor showing of the so-called “British values”, most of them, most of the time, swept under the carpet. Just wondering?
      Is daring proferring such things Remainiackery?

      • libertarian
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

        hefner

        to answer your question

        No its not remainackery, its just ignorance. Try actually measuring all the improvements in mortality, health, wealth and longevity . Heres all the data sets humanprogress.org

        Rewriting history based on current moral values is a totally pointless exercise

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

      The UK will never rise as a beacon of Democracy while the current UK structures remain in place – the largest unelected legislating chamber in the entire western world and governments which, due to the FPTP system command minority voter support and typically rank near the bottom of the G20 in terms of support for the government measured by share of voter support for that government (the 2015 UK government was dead last in the G20 on this measure).

      To use a football analogy, UK democracy is much like West Bromwich Albion.

  23. Christine
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    I agree wholeheartedly with your statement but we are being betrayed by those we elected to represent us in Parliament. Why have we offered free movement to Croatia from July this year when other EU countries have opted for restrictions? Another 4.3 million people entitled to come to the UK. TM just tells one lie after another. Enough is enough. She’s lost my vote.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      But remember we already have control of our borders through being out of Schengen even in the EU, as she dishonestly assured us!

  24. Adam
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    Brexit frees us to restore our finest qualities.

    • hefner
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

      Like those displayed by the various tabloids?

      • Adam
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

        I’m unfamiliar with what the tabloids presently do, yet I sense whatever contrasts they create add to the interest & liveliness of the nation.

        Tabloid used to be the size of broadsheet newspapers folded in half. Yesterday’s news on paper delivered van is destined to wither. Journalists may continue to cluster, yet news tends now to emerge in moving colour images from individual witnesses via mobile phones.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

      Adam

      Totally agree

    • Anonymous
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 8:39 am | Permalink

      Frankly I think British (and Continental) qualities are lost. I don’t think they can be saved now. The cultural flows are against.

      The Common Purpose movement’s time is nearly at end but not in the way that any of us is going to enjoy.

  25. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    I think you are in the wrong party Mr Redwood. The majority of the Parliamentary Conservative Party does not share these values and you continually find yourself outflanked by your more vocal colleagues who get more exposure.

    You have previously written that you have more chance of affecting change within a party in power but I see little evidence.

    Do you see your party delivering our exit from the EU in the manner you had hoped?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:59 am | Permalink

      We will not get out properly under May but she surely will be gone soon. JR is right under first past the post he is far better remaining in this dire, visionless, wet, pro EU, green crap, tax to death, social justice warrier Tory Party.

  26. Helen Taylor
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    Well tell that to this Government because they still seem to want to tie us to the eu. My vote did not go to a transition deal nor taking our land and leaving our waters behind nor having a border down the north sea. I heard an comment last night on the bbc that people are accepting this. Who are they kidding they need to read more on social media as there is a strong undercurrent of the everyday people who are becoming more and more disillusioned with the current level of politicians on both sides of the house. With a far greater sense of betrayal. From what mrs may says are unacceptable to what is then agreed. Our Waters are are Waters, we should have control over them from next march. The eu leaders are laughing at us and the weak negotiating team. We hear strong words from yourself and Mr Rees Mogg, Mr Bone, Kate Hoey etc, but the shower of brexiteers that are in the government are just looking after their own necks. mr gove’s capitulation as regards the fisherman is disgusting.

  27. Christopher Hillidge
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    I agree totally with what you have written, and I suspect that some of those who voted to
    remain in the EU have not revealed their true motives for doing so… there is an evolving
    similarity between the EU and the Oceania of George Orwell’s celebrated novel, 1984..
    In Airstrip 1 – formally Great Britain but now a mere province of the superstate Oceania –
    the language Newspeak does not allow negative words to be used; the Remainers of today
    seldom utter positive words, and never in relation to Brexit… talking of ‘hard’, rather than
    ‘clean’ Brexit, and of ‘cliff edges’ – as if our trade with Europe will come to a juddering halt
    as soon as we regain independence and sovereignty..

  28. Peter
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    Fine words but our negotiators are not going to achieve that. It will be delays and concessions and Brexit in Name Only.

  29. Ian wragg
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    So the same week we betray our fishermen we hand a £500 million contract to print passports to a foreign government.
    Of course it can bid lower as it is underwritten by the taxpayer.
    We have a Home Secretary with no qualifications and a failed business woman who is sister to the arch remainer Roland Rudd putting the boot in. You say politicians won’t always get things right.
    When are you going to make a start.

    • hefner
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      A bitty uninformed. The chosen Franco/Dutch company does not appear to be part of either the Dutch or French government.

      • mancunius
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

        Dig a little deeper. Gemalto has been ‘allowed’ by the EU (after extensive lobbying and mutually beneficial deals) to receive subsidies from the French government.

      • Ian wragg
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

        Read again. Thales which is part nationalised is a major share holder.
        The French government will underwrite the bid just as they do for Alston and other so called national champions.
        French passports have to be printed in France due to security implications. Apparently Amber Rudd has no such concerns.

        • stred
          Posted March 24, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

          There is probably a good market in duplicates. It would really help Mrs Merkel and Napoleon to ease things at home.

    • libertarian
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

      Ian Wragg

      De La Rue prints passports for 40 other countries…. Whats your point? We want to leave the EU so that we can have free trade not a different kind of protectionism

      • hefner
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

        L, Thanks for that

      • Ian wragg
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

        French and Dutch passports are not put out to tender.

  30. Epikouros
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    You make the point that parliament does not always act wisely. That is something of an understatement as parliament likes to legislate and govern us with little concern for the frequent bad effects of the unintended consequences of its policies and actions. The EU governance, its parliament and commission, is many time worse as it has no respect at all for the concerns, aspirations or wishes of those it governs. At least our domestic parliament has to use some discretion and use a modicum of circumspection when passing laws and imposing policies as unlike the EU has to take account of voters reaction.

    Remainers may believe that in time the EU will become more democratic and accountable. That is forlorn hope as if it did it could not survive the multitude of contrary demands that such a vast constituency is bound to create. Apart from which the founders of the EU realised that if the EU was to be born and survive the vicissitudes of numerous diversities of cultures and people then it had to be given absolute and unassailable power. A power which the Commission will never relinquish even if the EU parliament is in favour of doing so which is highly doubtful except by force. Force is not practicable so the only alternative is to relinquish membership before it is too late something Brexit is obvious making the Commission seriously consider finding the means to stop any future attempts by members to leave. It is working hard to to thwart Brexit and no doubt will not want the same embarrassment, hurt to their pride or the undermining of their authority ever again.

  31. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Given the way the government has capitulated to the EU on each aspect of the “negotiations” to date, there can be little hope that the most important part, which is about to begin (should have been done earlier but EU wouldn’t agree), will be anything other than Brexit in name only, if at all.

  32. Iain Gill
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    So why have we agreed to allow complete open doors immigration to anyone from Croatia during the ever extending transition period? Why have we agreed to grant them all indefinite leave to remain so they will be able to stay here forever? How many hundreds of thousands are we expecting to take up this offer? Where is the housing/schools/healthcare for this uncontrolled population expansion coming from?

    Your party is in power, we deserve to have answers to these questions!

    • hefner
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

      Could it be for some same reasons that a previous UK government had had an open doors policy to citizens from other former Eastern European countries when most of the other EU countries had decided on a five-year waiting period?

  33. Andy
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Stirring stuff. Fact free – but stirring.

    We already had control of our money, laws and borders.

    We were already a sovereign country.

    What actually happened on 23 June is that 17.4m (mainly old) people voted to make all 65m of us poorer.

    And most of them voted Leave because they don’t like foreigners. (Not all but most).

    Frankly if these old folk could just deal with their petty prejudices the it would all be so much easier.

    • ian wragg
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:32 am | Permalink

      Yawn………………………………

      • Andy
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:20 am | Permalink

        But true. Just look at the comments above mine. People complaining about 4.3m Croatians being able to come here (in reality a few thousand might). Others talking about foreigners with funny names they can’t spell. It is a simple reality that many Leave voters object to foreigners. My mother is one such Leave voter. They mostly fit an older, or poorer, or less educated demographic. I understand this is an inconvenient truth of Brexit but it is a truth.

        • Alison
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

          Andy, I seem to remember Tony Blair predicted some 13,000 from the EU would come to the UK.

        • mancunius
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

          “(in reality a few thousand might)”
          Disingenuous twaddle. The same misleading Blairite ‘predictions’ were made in 2003-04. They turned out to be as inaccurate as yours will undoubtedly prove to be.
          Croatia’s youth unemployment rate is 25%. Its general unemployment rate is 10%.
          Go figure.

          • hans chr iversen
            Posted March 24, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

            nice to see you got your figures right for a change

          • Edward2
            Posted March 24, 2018 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

            Andy referred to his own Mother as “older, poorer and less educated..as a truth”
            Yet your criticism is aimed at someone else.

        • Edward2
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

          You sound like the Labour minister who told us under 20,000 Poles would want to come to the UK
          In the end over 750,000 came.
          The problem with open borders without control and no limits is that the government cannot plan the necessary infrastructure needed.
          It’s about numbers not “foreigners”

        • Timaction
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

          Like the 14000 we were told would come from Poland and Eastern Europe?

        • Glenn Vaughan
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

          Andy – Your mother has my sympathy – as well as seeming to be an astute woman.

          • hans chr iversen
            Posted March 24, 2018 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

            that comment was under the belt and totally unnecessary.

        • stred
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

          A lot of us are Brexiteers married to foreigners and have houses in Europe, so we may have experience of dealing with them. It must be a problem having your mother around, being a xenophobic, older, and of a poorer less educated class. Hopefully, Cameron Tories will have been able to educate their own precious little one into the joys of serving the EU High Representative when she decides to expand east and activates conscription.

          It’s the numbers of foreigners that is the problem. If we could exchange useless whinging graduates in arts and media studies for numerate Europeans it would be fine. Unfortunately they would not be able to find employment, owing to the effects of the |Euro.

          • hans chr iversen
            Posted March 24, 2018 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

            Stred,

            Sorry, but what do you mean finding employment where?

        • ChrisK
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

          That’s it. Slag off the older generation. Many of my demographic actually have degrees and have been in businesses or senior positions for many years. And voted Leave. Hardly the dimwits you make them out to be. Since you love foreign company so much, I’m surprised you’re still here in Britain.

    • Alison
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:28 am | Permalink

      Andy, we had almost NO control over our borders, and increasingly little control over our laws.

      • Heath
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

        Have you ever been through Heathrow? 2 hour passport queue last time i was there

    • Fact Free Andy
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

      The referendum was years in the making. It didn’t take place in a day.

      And what was painted as a fringe ideal turned out to be a mainstream, majority, opinion – whatever the age.

      Our leaders kept telling us that they couldn’t keep criminals and freeloaders out because of the EU and the Human Rights Act.

      How else did you expect that to turn out ?

      With everyone singing Zippedy Doo Da and kicking their heels ???

    • Anonymous
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

      “Most of them voted leave because they don’t like foreigners”

      Actually we were getting on fine with the immigration thing until Tony Blair started taking the piss.

      • Turboterrier.
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

        Anonymous

        until Tony Blair started taking the piss.

        You so often bring a smile to my face, It is the way you tell them. But then truth has that effect.

    • Bob
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

      “Fact free” Just about sums up your entire contribution to this blog Andy.

    • libertarian
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      Sacked your staff yet?

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      You do go on and on and on and on and on>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      Get a life ( a real one)

    • Original Richard
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

      “What actually happened on 23 June is that 17.4m (mainly old) people voted to make all 65m of us poorer.”

      Firstly, isn’t it more likely they voted to leave the EU because they wanted to live in a democratic country and be capable of electing and removing those in power who spend our money, make our laws, decide who can come and live in the country and be in charge of our assets (fishing grounds)?

      Even the EU supporters say “No-one voted to be poorer”

      Secondly, all young people get both older and wiser.

      The argument that today’s young people will always remain EU supporters is false as can be shown by the fact that whilst a majority of people will vote Labour in their youth, many change to vote for the Conservatives as they get older and wiser.

      If this were not the case then there would simply be no Conservative Party, let alone one that received the most votes in the last GE.

  34. JoolsB
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    “To become self governing as we used to be
    We wish our Parliaments to frame our laws”

    Parliaments being the operative word. What you mean is the Scots, Welsh, NI and UK Governments, all of which will have many more powers repatriated to them from the EU once we leave.
    Tell me again John, how does England, in any sense of the word, become self governing?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

      Indeed devolution was done appallingly and is hugely unfair to the long suffering English who get most of the bill and non of the advantages. It is going to be hard to fix. It will be a disaster if we get a Corbyn SNP government as May seems to be doing her best to arrange .

  35. Norman
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    I actually think the Russians, whilst recognizing the realities that have shaped their own history, admire and respect Britain, and would warm to the aspirations you have set out.
    But now we see it – the big ‘event’ that could deflect or derail Brexit, and ignite full-scale war in the Middle East – a significant stand-off between West and East – and really, so unnecessary. Imagine the glint in the eye of the top brass EU grandees and their apologists! ‘Events, dear boy, events!’ Sad!

    • Mitchel
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:34 am | Permalink

      I think in strict cultural terms you are right-as masters of the word they greatly admire the likes of Shakespeare and Byron(appeals to the Cossack spirit),and have a fondness for literary characters like Sherlock Holmes,etc.

      And no-one does defiance quite like them-there is a magnificent painting by Ilya Repin “The Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks to Sultan Mehmed IV”-one of my personal favourites ever since I first saw it-which depicts an event in 1676 when the Ottoman Sultan sent an ultimatum demanding that the Cossacks recognise his suzerainty; the Cossacks,well refreshed,are shown falling about laughing whilst they compose an extremely rude letter in reply.

      Wikipedia will give you the text of the letter (it involves goats-I’m sure Boris would appreciate it!) – and it was the Sultan’s successors who were crushed.

      On your serious point yes-a major conflict (it wasn’t picked up much here but the Russians issued a stark warning last week about any further western involvement in Syria)or a major economic downturn resulting from the impending trade wars could easily have that effect.

  36. Oxiana
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    I agree – well said. Those who argue for remaining in the EU never discuss the question of control, the argument is always framed around economics as if that were more important than people’s freedoms. It is the ability of local constituents to select and elect MPs and, just as importantly deselect them when they do not perform, and for those MPs to pass laws in the interests of the people they represent that forms the essential cornerstone of democracy. Such freedoms have been deliberately whittled away over 40 years with Parliament increasingly taking on the appearance of a County Council with lots of debate by members with little power, nodding through poorly scrutinised EU laws by statutory instrument. Freedom trumps economics every time !!

    • Fact Free Andy
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

      I wonder if Fact Free Andy knows who his MEP is.

      • hefner
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

        Which is a ridiculous comment as MEPs are elected within regions, meaning that in the South East (as elsewhere) I have in fact several MEPs … and so does Andy and FFA.

        • Andy
          Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

          Yes is your answer to that – I do know who my MEPs are. Do you know who your local councillor is? No, thought not.

        • Anonymous
          Posted March 24, 2018 at 8:52 am | Permalink

          Most Remainers know NOTHING about the EU. Their most important politicians should be their MEPs.

          • hans chr iversen
            Posted March 24, 2018 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

            I am not a remainer but it would be more credible if you showed some facts to this sort of generalised statement. It does not give you much credibility

  37. A.Sedgwick
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Apparently Ms Rudd signed off the beyond belief decision to have our supposedly secure passports printed in Holland/France? With a majority of 346 it is difficult to see her surviving the next election.

    On elections it is time for a few bye elections on your piece, a mini referendum, there seems little point in our leaving the EU to be bound by their rules yet not having the dubious benefit of MEPs, Commissioner(s) and a seat on the Council.

    Straightforward campaign:

    Leave 29/03/19 with no deal and take any short term consequences.

    Any self respecting minister, particularly those supposed Leavers, would resign over the CFP capitulation. It is a bit academic but I will never vote Conservative again(excluding the described bye election) whilst May and Hammond are in the driving sets.

    • Briton
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

      Many of us are planning to campaign against Ms Rudd in her constituency just before the next General Election period, irrespective of our party political allegiances. Her ideas and practise are a severe threat to free-speech and liberty, in our opinion

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

      A. Sedgwick

      With a majority of 346 it is difficult to see her surviving the next election.

      Just have to hope that her local party see all the signs and select someone else to represent them.

      Her political CV is far from impressive

  38. agricola
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Totally Off Piste.

    The ignorant, in an engineering sense, and the emotive in Parliament who due to the dominance of lawyers think that new law is the answer to everything, should be brought to a sharp halt over their destruction of the diesel engine. Look up ACCT, a process devised at Loughborough University, using ammonia fluid to break down NOx into nitrogen and water that can remove 98% of NOx from diesel engine emissions. All apparently at modest cost. Get behind it and put an end to this insane witch hunt against the diesel engine. Why is it that ignorant politicians always reach for the ducking stool to cover their lack of engineering or scientific knowledge.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

      Indeed the subsidised renewables and electric car agenda is a huge mistake with current technology. If and when it can compete fine.

    • stred
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      Lorries and some cars already run with Adblue ammonia and NOx is cured. The levels of NOx have also been falling for ordinary cars. They have just increased the apportion of NO2 from diesel cars by a factor of 5, although measured levels at roadside have still fallen. Perhaps this is because buses and lorries now have Adblue. Either way 60% od PMs come from brakes and tyres and the diseases caused by these are more of a problem. NO2 is listed as a mild irritant. It must be agenda driven policy to enforce electric cars from renewables. MPs are unable to understand the figures.

      Re Up in the Air – London trust.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

      Agricola

      Why is it that ignorant politicians always reach for the ducking stool to cover their lack of engineering or scientific knowledge.

      Because we the voters never bring them to account and they just carry on as they always have done and allowed to do so

  39. Prigger
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    “On 23rd June 2016 17.4 million voters told Parliament we should leave the EU.”
    No, all our people told Parliament we should leave the EU. It was our decision. We The People made it.
    The majority of MPs voted we should stay in the EU. They were not traitors for doing so. But only then.

    • Prigger
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      PS .Though I know what you mean. I know what MPs mean. But they do not seem to recognise what it meant and what it continues to mean irrespective of any subsequent Parliamentary vote by way of attempted alteration. Thus they place their amendments to what they think. But it can never be an amendment to our decision., except, in their heads, to coin a phrase centuries old

    • Anonymous
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

      All who took part agreed to abide by the result.

  40. margaret
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Some would rather be slaves than seek freedom . Better the devil you know! The EU will become increasingly dictatorial .

  41. Denis Cooper
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43505804

    “EU and six other countries exempted from US metals tariffs”

    So now as far as the BBC is concerned the EU is no longer an international organisation established by treaty between its sovereign member states, it is instead itself a country to be mentioned in the same breath as six other countries, the sovereign states of Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Mexico and South Korea.

    And as for the past 45 years we have had no direct say in any such trade negotiations it is very lucky that we had an old friend to instantly stepped forward with an offer of help in guiding a new generation of UK trade negotiators, despite the despicable treatment meted out by both Edward Heath and Harold Wilson.

    From June 30th 2016:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/29/new-zealand-offers-uk-its-top-trade-negotiators-for-post-brexit/

    “New Zealand offers UK its top trade negotiators for post-Brexit deals”

    The BBC and others would do well to remember what a great man once said:

    “We have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not comprised. We are interested and associated, but not absorbed. And should European statesmen address us in the words that were used of old: ‘wouldest thou be spoken for to the King, or the Captain of the Host?’, we should reply with the Shunammite woman “Nay Sir, for I dwell among my own people’”.

  42. a-tracy
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Well, we didn’t vote leave to hand over our passport making to the French so why exactly did your Government do this John? Rudd needs to be urgently asked questions as this just isn’t about money saving is it!!!!

    Every British employee pays tax and NI to the British Exchequer to offset, the company pays employers NI, sick pay, maternity and sick holiday pay, pays for a high level of security, had no industrial action all the years it has been supplying passports. Is the company that currently makes these passports a British registered business paying corporation tax here? Do they pay VAT here in the UK?

    How can a French company charge less – we need an explanation HOW? The French NMW is higher, their employment laws are restrictive, plus on top they have added secure transport costs from France to the UK, when the current British company has just internal transport movements. All of the companies replying on the British passport makers for work will also be paying UK taxes.

    This act seems very VERY anti-British. If your government doesn’t sort out its national pride in British manufacture, security and operations where does this leave our Conservative party.

  43. acorn
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    “We voted to restore powers to Parliament because it is our Parliament
    We can lobby and influence it
    We can dismiss it and replace the MPs when they no longer please.”

    Alas, in reality, those statements are a long way from the truth. Parliament is dominated by the “executive” and rarely gets a “meaningful” vote on anything.

    The executive in parliament, can make a major change to the (unwritten) constitution, on a popular vote of 52% to 48% (Brexit). Most modern democracies require much higher voting margins to change written constitutions. The Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, introduced the two-thirds of the whole house majority rule, making it more difficult for the Executive; it wanted 55%.

    Only major corporations and party donors get to influence ministers. MPs are much further back in the queue.

    If you vote in a “safe” seat – about 80% of them – you have little chance to dismiss and replace your MP. He/She will keep turning up every election for decades. There needs to be a two term limit on all elected posts. After eight years, all politicians run out of ideas.

    • Edward2
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:15 am | Permalink

      They are safe seats because the majority vote in a particular way.
      No one forces them.
      I lived in a safe seat that became a marginal when voters wanted change.

      • Bob
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

        IDS used to have a safe seat.

      • rose
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

        Our seat was the biggest Conservative majority in the country. Now it is the biggest Socialist one. In between, the Liberals had it.

    • acorn
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

      Employee compensation decreased in Greece and in the UK.

      Compared with 2007, the compensation of employees per hour worked was higher in 2017 in all Member States, except in Greece where it fell by 7% (from €12.1 to €11.2) and the United Kingdom (from €27.3 to €25.5, or -7%). “How many euros on average per hour worked?” Eurostat.

      There is not just austerity, this is Osborne / Hammond austerity!

      • libertarian
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

        acorn

        The median salary in UK in 2007 was £11.36 in 2017 it was £13.94 per hour

        The Eurostat figures are bizarre, no idea how they got that and the ONS definitely doesn’t agree with them either

        • acorn
          Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:32 am | Permalink

          You can’t use median salary for this calc, you need average salary. ONS says “total compensation of employees” was circa £1, 040 billion and there were circa 53.7 billion actual hours worked. The Pound to Euro was circa 1.2, so you get around €23-24 per hour, but there will be residual timing errors in one years data.

    • forthurst
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

      Parliament exists to fill up copies of Hansard.

      Of greater concern than the potential failings of elected politicians is the manifest failure of political parties whose longevity is due to the stasis created by the absurdly undemocratic FPTP electoral system which combined with their ownership by donors some of whom actively hate the English and want to displace them with unassimilable imports, means that whether we are in or out the EU, the destruction of our country will continue unimpeded.

  44. nhsgp
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    We wish our Parliaments to frame our laws

    Bullshit.

    We demand that we tell you what to do.

    That you say that is just an example of “A rejection of the patronising errors of elites”

    We also demand that we get the right of consent. If we don’t want to fund Oxfam, you cannot use violence or its threat to force us to fund.

    All of what you say is just you patronising the plebs.

    It applied to the EU.

    It applies to you too.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:27 am | Permalink

      It’s true. The government seems to be continuing to fund dodgy charities – another relic from the Blair and Brown days which Cameron and May haven’t tackled. When you lift the stone, it’s not only £350 million a week. A lot of other stuff could be written on the bus which could be saved and returned to taxpayers for them to make their own decision.

      • mancunius
        Posted March 23, 2018 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

        Perhaps because the well-remunerated executive posts and boards of dodgy charities are excellent resting places for the political class and its ‘nepotes’.

    • hefner
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

      Another ridiculous comment, as MPs are elected to represent people, not to do what their electors (likely to be scattered over a wide range of opinions) want. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear …

  45. Ed Mahony
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    If the country wants Brexit, then let’s go for it, but let’s plan for it properly (whilst trying to reform the EU) instead of risking our country sinking into all kinds of economic / political / social / political problems that leaves us even more vulnerable, globalpolitically, than we already are.

  46. Edward2
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    Yet another poll showing a large majority still in favour of brexit and across all age groups too.

    You can see the full details on Guido Fawkes site.

  47. nigelR
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Dream on John- but the world has become a much more complicated and dangerous place since we had all of the above to ourselves at a time when we had the Empire. Today we need trade much more than ever but with our closest neighbours, both trade and security, and as we can see from happenings this week when the EU 27 rallied around in support of our ongoing dispute with Putin and Russia. But there are other potential rogue states out there as well also raising their heads like Turkey and Israel, China N.Korea and now Trumps mad America that seems to becoming more unstable by the day..who knows where this is all going to end up? so all the more need for a strong EU defence/ I say this advisedly because especially Turkey being currently a member of NATO makes things all the more complicated/likewise is Israel supported unconditionally by the US is another complication/. Thing is the world has moved on now more towards what can be regarded as the politics of ‘regionalism’- in support of regional trade and regional security- and as one of the bigger countries in Western Europe we should be also there at the European table one way or another to play our part in it-

  48. Dennis Zoff
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    THE BETRAYAL OF OUR FISHERMEN – FACTS4EU from one subscriber comment:

    MRS MAY, YOU MIGHT WANT TO LISTEN TO THIS! Well at the end of the day it will be the people’s choice which candidate will be chosen at the next local elections. It will be there that people will show their anger at these lying politicians. As they say, “Make them listen by hitting them in the pocket” and I also subscribe to the notion, if there is not an alternative to Lib/Lab/Con then I shall not vote at all, and I am sure there are very many who feel the same way as I do, regarding this shameful example of the Establishment ignoring the UK people AGAIN! It feels like a complete stitch-up right from the moment the people voted democratically to leave the EU.

    The establishment did not like it… and mobilised all the forces against this Brexit decision (installing T. May for starters), including installing those politicians that appeared to be backing Brexit, but most likely were simply thrown into the mix to give the illusion there are honourable politicians out there that would support the people….the decision to ignore Brexit was made the day after the vote! WHAT MUGS WE ARE!

    • Timaction
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

      Indeed. I agree entirely with the voter sentiment as the legacies have been proven to lie to us for over 40 years on everything to do with the EU, its true direction of travel and every armed conflict during that time. We are now being told that there are shenanigans going on to hide the Governments intentions on our military being subsumed but paid by us under EU control, hidden by the kitkat Civil servants. Any truth in that Mr Redwood?

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

      I tried to provide an expression of forceful support for our democratic expression yesterday but Mr Redwood, an alledged believer in free speech would not allow it. His nicey nicey approach hasn’t got us very far methinks. Mrs May knows his is ultimately compliant.

    • Original Richard
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

      “As they say, “Make them listen by hitting them in the pocket” and I also subscribe to the notion, if there is not an alternative to Lib/Lab/Con then I shall not vote at all, and I am sure there are very many who feel the same way as I do, regarding this shameful example of the Establishment ignoring the UK people AGAIN!”

      Please make sure that you do vote even if it means spoiling your ballot paper as all votes are counted, recorded and announced for each constituency.

      Turning up to vote and voting “None” is meaningful, not voting at all is just what the EU and UK’s EU supporting elites want.

  49. Ed Mahony
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    I’m not complaining, but why was my comment removed?

    It’s true. ‘Glorious’ in ‘Glorious Revolution’ is bullshit. (‘The Glorious Revolution may – or may not – have been a positive historical event but it certainly wasn’t ‘glorious’ – surely?)

    These are glorious (surely):

    – A British soldier sacrificing his life during WW2 against the Nazis for the freedom of future generations
    – Listening to Mozart, reading Shakespeare, looking at Leonardo da Vinci
    – The love between a husband and wife
    – The birth of a child
    – A man turning from crime to virtue

    And so on.

    But there was nothing ‘glorious’ about the Glorious Revolution. It’s just bullshit.

    • Ed Mahony
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 11:52 am | Permalink

      Whoops, apologies.

      I made a mistake (just been researching the Glorious Rev.). The Glorious Revolution was called the Glorious Revolution because of a lack of bloodshed (I thought lots of people had died).

      I was on my high horse (again), making a judgement about something i was ignorant of.

      Apologies, again.

  50. nigel seymour
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    The past few days have confirmed exactly what Farage has been saying in that we will leave the EU in name only come March 2019. I never voted for hard or soft brexit just plain and simple ‘leave the EU’… I’m now resigned that we will be an EU vassal country until 2021. I am not at all optimistic on how things will turn out by this date and feel sure more court cases and a 2nd referendum are down the line…I’m still totally unclear ( even listening to Lord Callanan) that if there is a no deal outcome then we will still ‘leave’ the EU March 2019??

  51. RDM
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    “The story of asserting the rule of law against all, however mighty.

    We prize the gift of freedom under the law for all on an equal basis”

    This should include all those of the Pillars of Power! Including the Privy Council, Lord Chief Justices, past and present (Mr Judge, Mr Thomas), etc,…

    “We share an aversion to slavery”

    I have always had an aversion to Slavery, even from my Parents, and would not, and cannot, accept or respect anyone giving it away, even if it is possible! It should be made impossible by Law!

    “A resistance to arbitrary government”

    This should be properly defined, with a legal frame work!

    I know!

    How about a Constitution?

    It could support the Values enshrined within the Great Charter!

    “A rejection of the patronising errors of elites”

    An Elite, and those that think they are, Ignorant by definition!

    Not the same as the Establishment, those that are/were part of the institutions of the State (See Pillars of Power, above), with the Knowledge, power, or money to exploit their position ?

    JR,
    I very much agree with your restatement of your position, and it is nice to be reminded, sometimes, of why and how we got here, but with the acknowledgement that we have a way to go!

    Something worth fighting for!

    But anyway, well done!

    RDM.

  52. MPC
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    It’s very sad that even those of us who took an active part in the referendum campaign now fear the worst as we move towards vassal statehood.

    The EU has played a blinder. Despite a high referendum turnout and clear result for Leave they know we don’t do revolutions and the worst that will happen with us effectively staying in will be low turnouts at future General Elections. Mrs May has put all her eggs into ‘The Deal’ basket but we know full well that the EU aim is vagueness in key areas / further unreasonable concessions in whatever deal is agreed, enabling further delay later as we play their game of trying to conclude arrangements over ever extending periods. Mr Verhofstadt has already said that there will be an annex only, covering trade, to the main agreement.

    It’s hard not to anticipate a parliamentary majority in favour of primary legislation for Mrs May’s deal, and the scope that will bring for further postponement of a clean break post December 2020

  53. Helen Taylor
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    So now the newspapers are reporting that
    ‘EU leaders, who are meeting in Brussels today without the British Prime Minister, have said despite agreement terms to start discussions on trade with Britain, they had “sharp discussions” any attempt for the UK to do a deal with America would be “unnacceptable”.’
    I bet she will accept this as well

    • Mark B
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 6:51 am | Permalink

      Yep !

  54. Dan..Justblahblah
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t vote to leave for any of this..i voted to leave because we have too much government at every level..too much of the EU nanny and UK nanny..too many soldiers police and traffic wardens..too many double yellow lines..i voted to leave because we need to downsize everything..we need to simplify things reduce the number of councils and councellors throughout the land..we need less government..less of so called pretend democracy..the House of Lords should be abolished..with 300 Mps in HoC would be enough..we need quality not quantity… remember more taxes for government means only that they have more to waste..thats why i voted to leave..if given half the chance i would also vote for the dissolution of the UK itself back into the old nations. Speaking for England

  55. Edwardm
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Exactly.
    The fundamental issues stated.
    I have not seen these points addressed by remainers.
    I have not seen a list of benefits for remaining.
    I do not pretend to understand remainers, it seems they lack confidence, they appease, they defend the unaccountable, they make us all losers.
    Getting out of the EU will take some re-adjustment – we should never have put ourselves as a nation into such a position – but now we have decided to leave we must grab this chance to free ourselves and regain our vibrancy. It is not a reason for half measures.

    • Andy
      Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

      On the contrary – Remainers are true patriots. We know our country is strong and powerful enough not just to survive but to flourish as a leading member of the EU.

      Leaves have so little faith in Britain and Britishness that you believe being part of a multi-national club will destroy both. Why do you think our country is so weak?

      • Edwardm
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

        I’m glad you have good confidence in our country, as do I and other Leavers that I know. Confidence that we can flourish and project ourselves on the world stage by our own efforts and make our own decisions, like most other countries, and without need for intermediaries. We have strong faith.

        It took about 700 years from Magna Carta to gaining the full franchise. Having achieved democracy, it amazes me how many people (ie Remainers) now wish to ruled by an autocracy.

      • Edwardm
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

        I am glad you have confidence in our country. As do I and other Leavers I know. Confidence that we can flourish and project ourselves on the world stage by our own efforts and decisions, like most other countries, and without intermediaries. We have strong faith.

        It took about 700 years to progress from Magna Carta to the full franchise. having achieved full democracy, it amazes me how many people (i.e. Remainers) now wish to be ruled by an autocracy.
        (This a repeat – owing to possible comms failure)

      • Times Dark Force
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

        …. a leading member of the EU.” Which countries of the EU do you think are not “leading members”? Care to tell the people of those countries? They would give you one of two responses. either a kick with their right feet or, a kick with their left feet.
        It seems Andy you are but a very well disguised Imperialist thinker.

  56. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Nice to see Geneva Airport now has Swiss flag, Union Jack and EU stars flag all separate but all running through fast track passports. It’s almost as though they know we’re out!

  57. Iain Gill
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    wow I take it you have seen Dominic Cummings blog post…

  58. Raymond
    Posted March 23, 2018 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    I think JR has succinctly summarised the reasons for Brexit correctly. But there is no promise of a sunny upland.

  59. Posted March 23, 2018 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Taxes don’t fund government spending.

    We’ve left the gold standard so stop lying about it.

    I’m more than happy to list how HM treasury spends and the actual accounting for that. I’ve only studied it for 6 years.

    Everything else I agree with.

    • Raymond
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

      I though Taxes and borrowing (and printing money) funded government spending. How does it work then, without asking for a treatise?

      • Edward2
        Posted March 24, 2018 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

        Derek is a magic money tree believer.

        • Raymond
          Posted March 25, 2018 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

          Thank you for the explanation

        • Posted March 25, 2018 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

          Derek Knows the actual accounting between HM Treasury and the BOE.

          Huge difference.

      • Posted March 25, 2018 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

        Raymond the HM Treasury has to spend first before it can collect taxes. Government spending creates high powered money taxes destroy high powered money. The BOE can’t do a reserve drain ( taxes and the sale of bonds) without doing a reserve add first ( government spending)

        Taxes take our spending power away and control inflation. Imagine any spending chain you like when your spending becomes someone elses income with any positive tax rate. Work your way through it.

        Tty it yourself use monopoly money and jelly babies in the house and give the first jelly baby £1,000 take the tax off then pass the whole lot to the next Jelly baby take the tax off and pass the whole lot to the thrird jelly baby take the tax off and son and so on.

        You’ll quickly realise all government spending pays for itself with any positive tax rate.

        Taxes are destroyed every night of the week in the overnight interbank market like a tally stick. When the commercial banks have to net their reserves to zero and the BOE has to meet its overnight interest rate target as they add and drain reserves for the start of each day.

        Ask yourself

        Where do we get the £’s from that then allow us to buy gilts ?

        Answer previous budget deficits.

        Why on earth would the MONOPOLY issuer of the £ need our £’s before it can spend ?

        Answer it doesn’t

  60. Dennis Zoff
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    John, thought you might like this comment from one of Facts4EU’s subscribers:

    “Excellent interview with Dr John Redwood, thank you. As always, Dr Redwood sees Brexit clearly and demonstrably beneficial to the UK population; as do more than 17 Million voters. In spite of the vocal naysayers’ persistent “erroneous” gloom and doom scenarios, so prevalent within the Government/Civil service and the broader spectrum of Remainers, plus supported by their delusive mouthpieces within the biased MSM, the social and economic Armageddon did not materialise.

    However, for all the positive comments from Dr Redwood, there is a feeling the most prophetic part of the discussion was your second to last question “Dr Redwood, some pro-Brexit people now see you as the last man standing in terms of supporting a true and clean Brexit” As much as I and many others welcome Dr Redwood’s honourable tenacity, insightful knowledge and veracity, there is a view circulating that Dr Redwood is becoming somewhat of a lone ranger!

    However, I trust we can all assist him in some way to execute the wishes of the UK majority in making Brexit a truly inspirational success, not just in Britain, but also an international beacon of hope for normal people’s triumph against all the nefarious odds!”

    I support this person’s viewpoint and hope you are successful with your endeavour; we are behind you!

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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