A necessary sacking

Mr Corbyn was right to sack Mr Smith from the Shadow Cabinet. The Shadow Cabinet rightly agrees the UK will leave the single market and EU Customs Union when we leave the EU, and does not need a second referendum on whether we leave or not. Mr Smith does not accept this so cannot stay in the Shadow Cabinet where he has to take collective responsibility for the common view. Mr Smith clearly does not accept the democratic decision of UK voters, and ignores the strong feelings of all those Labour voters who voted for Leave and voted for Labour in 2017 because the party said they supported Brexit.

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57 Comments

  1. Adam
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Jeremy Corbyn was right to dismiss anti-democrat Owen Smith, but was wrong in assigning him to the Shadow Cabinet in the first place.

    • Hope
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

      JR, the same could be said for Hammond. He has never been been slapped down by May for going against govt policy! Johnson rebuked at every opportunity even when stating govt policy!

      The Bigger question is: when are you going to oust May. Her time is up and she has failed the country. Sadly, leave ministers like Davis have gone AWOL, perhaps the task was always above his head. Clearly the civil service needs to confronted head on, they should be told either buck up or F off.

  2. Denis Cooper
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    At the end of this expert witness session:

    https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/535e95f3-d228-4fa6-a0b6-1caf6bb9d84f

    the committee chairman asked whether the UK remaining in a customs union with the EU would make any difference with respect to the Irish border from a technical point of view, and the answer was that it would make no difference.

    So Owen Smith is actually quite correct in the sense that the current Labour party policy of leaving the EU Single Market but staying in a customs union is nonsensical.

    What I cannot understand is the lack of aggression on the part of the government which seems perfectly happy to see all kinds of rubbish given wide circulation without lifting a finger against those responsible for attempting to deceive the public.

    • Hope
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

      Oh Dennis, I think you can. It is obvious to us all that May and her Govt are trying everything to keep the U.K. In the EU by another name. Gove last week claiming the prize was the extension!

      What other countries in the world who wish to trade with another surrender as much as Davis? The chitchat about Canada, did I miss Canada giving the Eau control over its waters and fishing stocks, agree to unlimited immigration, the ECJ having oversight of their citizens in Canada, or did Canada give the EU £100 billion just to talk about trade? No, what idiot would. Good grief why are the leavers accepting this? That is the question.

  3. Mark B
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Good afternoon. Makes a change 🙂

    The man is guilty of nothing more than ignorance. A second referendum would achieve little. I see not reason unless the people were to be asked; “Is this deal acceptable to you ?” For me, and I am sure for many others, it would not be. But we won’t be asked that or anything else. I think the Establishment have learnt their lesson 😉

    • Hope
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

      Trade happens between countries every day of the week and envy week of the year. Even without a formal deal in existence!

      It is not complicated or complex, however leaving the EU was never about a trade deal as the narrative has been allowed to grow by remainers. We had project fear two to scare us, it did not work, now it is economics through trade. We voted leave, both main parties claimed to accept the result.

      May has not and has failed to deliver on the mandate of the country. She uses every opportunity to say why the U.K. Must remain attached to the EU for tangential issues all specious and all utter rubbish.

      The price surrendered to date to not trade on WTO terms is simply not worth it.

  4. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    He’s in denial.

    Still refuses to accept that voting leave was voting to leave the single market, customs union or probably the EU at all. There are so many contradictions in his beliefs, it’s comical. Worry about economic problems he thinks will happen with Brexit, but don’t worry about the effect of mass nationalisations by Corbyn!

    He just thinks the referendum was one big mistake and we poor silly cretins can’t be as clever as this great intellectual.

  5. ian wragg
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Sounds very familiar, what about Hammond, Rudd and indeed the PM who is doing all in her power to give us BRINO.
    To date she has conceded every point to the EU and even endorsed the printing of passports abroad.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 3:29 am | Permalink

      Indeed.

      On printing passports abroad the real question is why is does not seem possible for the UK Companies to compete, not even with the French. Is it Hammond’s highest taxes for 40 years, high house prices, high energy costs, the absurd over regulation of everything, the apprentics tax, May’s idiotic gender reporting, the lack of competition in banking, the benefit system that encourages people not to work or perhaps all of these.

  6. MickN
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Dianne Abbot was saying the same thing recently. I wonder which way she will jump now.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 3:34 am | Permalink

      Surely we have heard enough for Diane Abbott who is endlessly on the BBC almost always talking complete drivel. Clearly she like most of Corbyn’s Labour Party really thinks there is a magic government money tree.

  7. Prigger
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Yes you’re right

  8. zorro
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    As we know, there are many more like him in the Labour Party…..

    zorro

  9. Ron Olden
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think much of either Corbyn or Smith, but this sacking was 100% justified.

    The self promoting Smith is now doing the rounds claiming that he’s is entitled to ‘campaign for his own principles’.

    No one’s saying he isn’t. But to be in the Shadow Cabinet you have to have the self discipline and professionalism to stick by collective decisions.

    Smith shouldn’t have joined the Shadow Cabinet in the first place if he doesn’t have the necessary qualities nor the intention of doing the job.

    Neither, incidentally, should Corbyn or Diane Abbott be there. Corbyn doesn’t appear able to stick to many Shadow Cabinet decisions either, and four months ago Abbott said exactly the same thing as Owen Smith has just said, but she stays.

    She didn’t vote in Parliament to invoke Article 50 either. Apparently she was ‘ill’.

    • L Jones
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

      Considering that Smith’s constituents voted in the majority for ”leave” the what right does he have to ”campaign for his own principles”. He does NOT have that right. He was elected to represent the people who voted for him. He says he is ”standing by his convictions”!
      How much more utterly and unspeakably arrogant can people like him get?

      • hefner
        Posted March 25, 2018 at 10:10 am | Permalink

        Think about it a bit more: depending which survey you like at, there is a 70 to 82 percent majority of British people who think that the law on end-of-life should be revised, maybe following what is discussed right now in Guernsey, i.e. to be possibly applied to people who take that decision themselves, having all their wits but an incurable disease for which two independent doctors have given a vital prognostic shorter than six months.
        When there had been some votes on the question, my own Conservative MP has always voted against any further discussions on the topics. According to Dignity in Dying, the support for looking again at the law is rather evenly distributed in the UK. It is not that this particular constituency is different from the mean.

        May I say he is « utterly and unspeakably arrogant »?

  10. Prigger
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    The women’s Oxford /Cambridge Boat Race was just about ruined by BBC coverage.Not much of the race, just BBC interviewers and commentators. Even had the temerity to run a BBC rowing team in sync.I think the BBC are even better at ruining what there is to ruin of Eurovision.
    If the UK landed an astronaut on Mars the BBC’s Mars Correspondent would stand in front of the event on screen explaining what she could see and hear.We should have the licence fee refunded.

    • Christopher Hillidge
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

      For many years the celebrated Boat Race involved just the Oxford and Cambridge
      blue boats. More recently, the reserve crews – Isis and Goldie – raced each other as
      well, and finally the women’s blue boats and reserve crews muscled in on the same day and over the same course as the men, when previously they had their own race
      at Henley. I’m all for inclusivity – but where will it end?
      This year, all races were in effect over by Hammersmith Bridge – as they so often are, given that the course is unfair unless each crew is compelled to remain on its own station throughout the race.
      And the race commentary was predictably sycophantic – no criticism, for example,
      of the fact that both women’s blue boats were steered well out of the stream from
      virtually start to finish…

  11. Major Gowen
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    He’s Welsh isn’t he?

    • Glenn Vaughan
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

      What’s your point?

  12. hans chr iversen
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    John,

    I am not sure you have got your facts right, are you sure the Shadow Cbinet supports leaving the Customs Union as well, or is this just your fake news again?

    Reply Yes, they say we have to leAve THE customs union but want to create some new custons union.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

      The current Labour nonsense as repeated by Keir Starmer on TV this morning is that we cannot remain part of “the” EU Customs Union but we should negotiate “a” new and special, in fact unique, customs union with the EU, not as the government says just a customs arrangement, but with “a strong Single Market relationship”.

  13. Times Dark Force
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    Mr Umuna, Labour MP was on TV defending Mr Owen’s behaviour.
    It was very noticeable from a split second after PM Mrs May’s speech to the The Commons about Salisbury that the Labour Right picked that as the starting point for a new campaign against Corbyn
    Personally, I do not believe Labour’s brand named Right-wingers care a Shrewsbury’s duck whether we are in or out of the EU. Just power for themselves, any gravy train will do. They lost power to Corbyn and his comrades-in-red. So we can expect more from them. Nothing to do with democracy or pure politics just a good old fashioned disgusting power struggle.

    • Times Dark Force
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

      one too may “the”s

  14. getahead
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Mr Corbyn is about as trustworthy as Mrs May.

  15. Andy
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    Purging those who are disagree is how all dictatorships start.

    Deriding experts is another trait of a police state. Two checks for the Brexiteers already.

    Brexiteers loathe anyone questioning their dodgy project.

    Unsurprising because they are devoid of sensible answers.

    The Tory hard-right Brexit pensioners are lucky Labour does not have a sensible leader.

    But Mr Corbyn is pushing 70. The next election is more than likely to be his last.

    The Tory pensioner wipeout may be delayed until 2027 – but it has not been cancelled.

    • Jagman84
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

      Fortunately, there will be lots more Tory pensioners to replace them. For you too describe them as ‘Hard-right’ says more about your mindset than their middle ground politics. Out of all of the groups in the UK, no one is more pro the welfare of our youngsters than their Grandparents. Do yours know of your distaste for them?

      • Andy
        Posted March 25, 2018 at 6:52 am | Permalink

        Bless. It’s cute you think so.

        Under 45s have fled from your pathetic nasty party in droves – because of Brexit. And we are NEVER coming back.

        The Tories need to get our beyond the purple rinse brigade and speak to some of those who hold your (lack of) electoral future in your hands.

        We will be the generation to wipe your party out for good. It’ll be the Liberals at the start of the 20th century. And you are all too arrogant to see it happening. Good.

        • Anonymous
          Posted March 25, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

          ‘Purple rinse’

          Haven’t seen one of those for decades.

          You’re talking about the Punk generation here, you realise. Retirees now who used to go to Black Sabbath concerts.

          You keep looking to a people long gone to hate.

        • libertarian
          Posted March 26, 2018 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          When you say “We” are going to wipe the Tory party out. Which party is it thats going to do that? Assuming you have the remotest clue about how our electoral system works.

          I guess your vitriol and hate for your parents and grandparents was caused by some deep psychological flaw you have

    • Times Dark Force
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

      You need reminding again Andy the vote was Leave.Purging those who win the vote is how all dictatorships start. Stop advocating dictatorship.Andy. It is distasteful.

    • Times Dark Force
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

      Andy. Good you think Corbyn is a dictator. Well done! You are learning!

    • L Jones
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

      You remainders should step back and take a look at yourselves.

      Perhaps, though, you’d like to enlighten us as to why your EU masters are so admirable. Why would it have been beneficial for the UK to remain shackled to the execrable EU?

      Some answers would be appreciated, rather than your constant insulting and shallowly ignorant comments about ”pensioners”. Some of us Brexiteers are young, with young families whose future they value and wish to protect. We are not all short-sighted and self-seeking people like you, Andy. Some of us are creating our own ”boom years” for the welfare of the upcoming generation. We don’t all sit on our botties feeling hard done by and envying those who worked hard in the past for their future and that of their children and grandchildren.
      Go out and get a life. You’ll feel better about yourself.

    • Edward2
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

      Andy
      Do you still have confidence in the research bodies that got it completely wrong for immediately after the vote day?
      Experts eh….

    • Richard1
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

      By 2027 the U.K. will be out of the EU, will have free trade deals with numerous other countries, including the US India and Brazil – and maybe even China, whilst the EU will have had to restructure so as to impose federal union on Eurozone countries and allowing a secondary, associate membership for those not in it. On this basis the Tories should be doing rather well.

    • duncan
      Posted March 24, 2018 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

      Your desire for even more politics and politicians defies belief. Why would anyone want to transfer even more political powers away from our control?

      I want less politics, fewer politicians and an increase in the peoples ability to restrict the power of governments. The British people can’t do that if power rests away from Westminster

      Think before you compose your tosh

      • Andy
        Posted March 25, 2018 at 11:39 am | Permalink

        Power does not rest away from Westminster. The NHS is bad because Westminster is rotten. Schools are failing because MPs do not fix them. Your council can not provide services because Westminster has starved them of resources. Westminster built us a billion pound aircarft carrier – with a hole in it and no planes.

        I am perfectly happy to have fewer, better, more accountable politicians. But the Westminster old boys club is not it. Three quarters of them have safe seats, millions of voters are completely unrepresented, we have a Prime Minister who nobody outside of Maidenhead voted for, an unelected House of Lords.

        Drain the swamp.

        • Edward2
          Posted March 25, 2018 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

          So pas the job to the EU.
          Your solution is not going to work.

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted March 25, 2018 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          You are on the right track…indeed, start the clean up of Waste-Minster one second after fully exiting Waste-Brussels!

        • Viva Poverty! Viva!
          Posted March 25, 2018 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

          It must be hard Andy being born into a tyannical country such as this. I should leave. Venezuela is nice this time of year.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 3:42 am | Permalink

      Many so called “experts” deserve to be derided. All the ones in favour of the ERM, the EURO, big government, magic money tree economics, climate alarmism, subsidies for “renewables”, gender pay reporting, the absurdly complex tax system, joining and remaining in the EU…..

  16. Lifelogic
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    Indeed he was right. But let us hope that despite Hammond & May’s best endevours Corbyn fails ever to gain any real power. This for the sake of people jobs, lives, sanity and the economy. Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron and May were or are quite dire enough thanks.

    • Sticky solution
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

      Lifelogic you must love the British people very much. The younger generation deserves Corbyn. They have had the advantage of a huge library of books from authors on every effort to “build socialism” across the world and living beings here who if they did not witness the hell then their parents did, millions of EU workers with the story to tell. Yet some of our youth won’t read, can’t read, can’t think, can’t speak to their classmates and learn.
      A lifelong wound inflicted by Corbyn will remind them how they daftly voted for nonsense and make them better people in the future, hopefully.

  17. Ron Olden
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    At about the time the Bitcoin reached its’ peak of a $20,000 in Mid December 2017 there was, in response to John Redwoods observations, some discussion here about crypto currencies.

    I read in the paper at the time, than some people were borrowing money off their Credit Cards to buy Bitcoins for speculative purposes, and that the banks had to stop them doing so, to protect their own capital.

    One American financial ‘guru’ whom, (as it happens) was, (and still is) strongly in favour of the UK remaining in the EU, said the Bitcoin would reach $50,000 by the end of this year.

    14 weeks later it’s now worth $8,900 and the forward markets have it at a near 70% chance of being lower still by the end of the year, and a near a 50:50 chance of it being lower than $5000.

    As I said at the time however, in my view, it might be worth nothing at all.

  18. mancunius
    Posted March 24, 2018 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    On present showing, I assume that every member of the Opposition Front Bench has been ordered to adopt a different position on Brexit, so that Labour has a wide-ranging, nay comprehensive gamut of policies from which to choose from – if it bothers to choose – at the next election.
    Whichever Brexit policy seems to be opportune at the time of an election, Labour will be able to say truthfully that ‘it has been demanded by the Front Bench’.
    The fact that these policies are logically mutually exclusive and ludicrously self-contradictory will be an irrelevance, as the UK electorate has been successfully re-educated by social media and the BBC to believe anything and everything.

    • Pizza lover
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 10:13 am | Permalink

      The Labour Front Bench is like the the whole of the Italian Parliament in one line.

  19. miami.mode
    Posted March 25, 2018 at 12:32 am | Permalink

    In a number of interviews Owen Smith has said that Brexit is the biggest economic crisis we will have faced for many, many generations. Why don’t they ask him how many generations he means?

    Unless he is discounting 2008/09, ERM in 1992, 1987, 2 world wars, 1926 general strike and the 1929 crash, he is talking absolute nonsense.

    • Christopher Hillidge
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

      as usual..

  20. Times Dark Force
    Posted March 25, 2018 at 5:03 am | Permalink

    “Spain moves to ban ‘insulting’ memes about politicians from the internet”
    Politicians in Spain are free-thinking, pleasant, nice, good-looking, brave,honest, intelligent,trustworthy, and can’t help being Spanish

  21. jerry
    Posted March 25, 2018 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Cabinet collective responsibility is one thing, and I agree that Mr Smith had to be sacked, but I do wonder if you would have supported Mr Corbyn had official Labour policy been in tune with Mr Smith’s views and someone had decided to break ranks to support leaving the CU and perhaps even leave with no deal on WTO rules -it’s your job I accept but your remarks do reek of political opportunism!

    • Helen Smith
      Posted March 26, 2018 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      I think that rather depends on what Labour promised the electorate in its manifesto, they promised to respect the result, although why anyone would ever trust Labour on that beggars belief.

      • jerry
        Posted March 28, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

        Helen Smith; “why anyone would ever trust Labour on that beggars belief.”

        Whatever, many Labour supporters, indeed some LD supporters (at the time of the coalition) said the same about the Tory party – horses for courses!

  22. agricola
    Posted March 25, 2018 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    The internal squabbling of the Labour party are not of much interest. But for lack of courage a large segment of their MPs should have split as Corbyn established himself. Their beliefs took a back seat to the practicalities of a regular salary and career. Now they will be picked off by Marxist Momentum as and when it suits. Corbyn et al may have increasing control of the party via an active membership, but the voters are at home watching the telly.

    • jerry
      Posted March 25, 2018 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

      @agricola; “The internal squabbling of the Labour party are not of much interest. But for lack of courage a large segment of their MPs should have split as Corbyn established himself.”

      What utter nonsense, hypocrisy on stilts! Would you have said the same post 1990, certainly post 1997, about the discord in the Conservative party. Indeed on your rational, those ‘wets’ in the Tory party, those who disagreed with Thatcher, should have split too, as a few did in fact do, even if it had resulted in a lost majority on certain policies, perhaps even a lost vote of no confidence and a general election.

      The only reason you call for disaffected Labour MPs to split is because you know a split party between now and the next GE would be as effective as Labour and the SDP were in the early 1980s.

      Oh and are you not another commentator on this site who lives abroad, perhaps you should keep your own council if you do, leave UK domestic politics to those who actually live in the UK, otherwise perhaps we should rerun the Brexiit referenda and allow all UK ex-pats to vote this time?

      • agricola
        Posted March 25, 2018 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

        Nice to know I tweaked a cord.

  23. BOF
    Posted March 25, 2018 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Indeed it was the right thing to do.

    The anomaly however is that as more and more concessions are made by our EU appeasement team, is the democratic decision of the electorate being upheld or are the strong feelings of the British people being ignored if the final offering is BRINO?

  24. BOF
    Posted March 25, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Off topic.

    With the debacle over passports as well as opening the door to Croatia, is this all from the Home Office? If so has anyone told Ms Rudd that when you are in a hole, stop digging and further reminded her that net migration was more than 240,000 last year and not in the 10’s of thousands as promised!

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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