The EU budget 2021-27

It was interesting yesterday to hear the media telling us the EU would lose a net 15bn Euros from the UK’s exit from the EU, much in line with the £12bn net UK gain  figure I and others used throughout the referendum campaign. Remain supporters used to tell us it was nothing like as much as this. I hope they were listening.

It was also interesting to see the priorities for increased spending by the EU. They propose increasing defence expenditure 22 fold from a low base. They want to spend 2.6 times as much on  borders, and 2.5 times as much on civil protection as in the present budget period.  We were told there would be no EU army, yet work continues apace to increase the EU’s role in Member states defence.

They also propose three new sources of tax revenue for the EU going forward. There will be a 3% levy on Corporation tax to pay for the single market, as they move to legislate for a “common consolidated corporation tax base”. (Remember all the promises that tax was a red line remaining under national control?) The EU will take 20% of Emissions Trading revenue, and will up its share of customs revenue from 80% to 90%. There will be a new non recycled plastics tax.

The EU will sweep aside all remaining member states rebates over the period 2012-26. They will prevent countries that have “rule of law deficiencies” from getting access to various EU monies to give the EU more leverage over national policies and electoral results they do not like. They are setting up a couple of new funds to help convergence in the Euro area and to assist countries preparing to join the single currency.

It is a sensible budget given the ambitions to create a political union and to project it more on the world stage. The budget reveals what Vote Leave set out – this is not a mere trading arrangement, but a serious attempt at full economic, monetary and political union. This budget and related measures will give it more money per head to spend, and will give the Union more power over the member states.

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132 Comments

  1. Peter Wood
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,
    I do hope this topic will be fully debated in the House, it may enlighten a few Remainers to the ultimate objective of the Evil Union (backed by Germany) and bring them over to your camp.

  2. duncan
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 5:31 am | Permalink

    The EU’s objective is nothing less than the complete destruction of each member state’s direct democracy and sovereign control.

    I am ashamed to think that I vote for a party that is led by a person and includes people with the same tendencies as those EU apparatchiks whose intent is truly shocking

    And by the way Mr Redwood, is there any possibility of our party waking up and realising that the people of the UK demand a return to controlled immigration?

    We are tired of our generosity being abused by all and sundry

    When will the Tories STOP pandering to the liberal left media based in London?

    When will our party expose Labour using mass immigration to expand their electoral, client base? This party cares not one jot for the welfare of migrants. They care only for their electoral loyalty once these people are naturalised. They try to create an environment that maximises inward migration, turns these people into victims of racism who then naturally gravitate towards Labour

    Labour have been using immigration to boost their political grip over major city conurbations especially London and my party remain silent on this open abuse

    The Tories lack moral courage

  3. eeyore
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Yesterday JR asked why Remain focus so relentlessly on trade. He might have asked instead why Leave let them.

    The narrative belongs to those eloquent and persistent enough to seize it. Today’s post is a good start. What will Leave spokesmen make of it?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      There are no official spokesmen who will make anything of it. I recall the Blair years when it was a matter of minutes before the government rebutted any criticism … not so with the Department for Exiting the European Union, it has a twitter account and allegedly “Twitter is the best place to get live updates of the things you care about most”, but not if what you care about most is leaving the EU:

      https://twitter.com/DExEUgov

      Oh, look, here’s their latest tweet:

      “Rumours that the UK will be staying in the EU Customs Union for another five years are completely unfounded … ”

      Only joking.

  4. Henry Spark
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    Which bit of the word “proposals” do you not understand? The member states will consider which route now to take. The UK used to be very good at influencing the debate – Mrs Thatcher won us the single market, Mr Major did a brilliant job in securing enlargement to the east. Today all the Brexiteers want to do is run away, stick their fingers in their ears and pull up the Little England drawbridge. Very sad

    • mancunius
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

      The single market Mrs Thatcher was promised does not yet exist – it
      never will, if France and Germany have their way, as they invariably do.
      Enlargement to the east was agreed to by Major with the vague intention of preventing further EU integration. It was a daft idea, as was demonstrated by the subsequent massive inflow of dumped labour after 2004.
      All the extension of the EU has done is to encourage a subsidised sense of entitlement in Eastern and Southeastern Europe, without a corresponding sense of political and economic responsibility.
      Much like those who comment on our national affairs from far away.

    • Posted May 3, 2018 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

      Rubbish. We wish to look outward to the rest of the world, not stare at European navels. The EU is a protectionist, coercive regime and it truly beggars belief that there are still remainders who wish to stay under the heel of EU masters, obeying their directives and eventually handing over our children for conscription into a foreign army. The EU has morphed into something that is very different from what it was in 2016 – there was never going to be the status quo for which people like you voted.

      You remainders should realise there is a big world out there – why should we want to stay with a squabbling huddle of self-serving, narrow-minded expansionists? Try looking further than the end of your nose!

      Your continuing to insult Brexiteers is simply pitiable, and very very tiresome.

      • Georgy Llewor
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

        Have you heard of dear Nigel making sure that his two children from his German wife have a German passport? He does not seem tooooo concerned by them being conscripted into a « foreign » army.
        Could such a decision be the reason why UKIP is being wiped out at the local elections? or is it the mediocrity of the people standing as UKIP candidates being finally recognized by the people at large?

        • Edward2
          Posted May 5, 2018 at 7:19 am | Permalink

          Nigel was often accused of being a little Englander by those who claimed incorrectly that he hated Europeans.
          Yet having now married a German lady and now he decides to get German citizenship for his children you and others still criticise him.
          Very odd logic.

    • Edward2
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

      One vote in 28.

      • Alan
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:28 am | Permalink

        Actually 29 out of 345, I think.

  5. Mark B
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    There will be a 3% levy on Corporation tax to pay for the single market, as they move to legislate for a “common consolidated corporation tax base”

    Well that explains why the RoI wants the UK tied so closely to the EU. With increased contributions and now a flat corporation tax which is really going to hurt them there has never been a better time for a low tax low regulation country. It is just such a shame that it is only going to be Switzerland and Liechtenstein 😉

    We will however be subsidising their defence as I am sure those UK defence companies will lobbying our government to do 😉

    Leaving the EU has in one way done / doing what has been predicted, move to EVER CLOSER UNION. And sooner this is achieved the better. Because then, no longer can those who claimed, quite falsely, that it was just about trade. And I do hope that one day those people are held to account for their deceit.

  6. hans christian ivers
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    there is no plan for a full political and monetary union and most of northern and eastern Europe will not support such a plan either.

    Quote Danish PM. “We have no wish, plan for a political union in the EU.”

    So, no John you are pushing this too far as usual.

    • mancunius
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

      Denmark has 1.12% of the population.
      With the new QMV rule for voting in the Council, and with the new population weighting rules of QMV, even if the entire north and east of Europe were to vote against a proposal, it would still pass easily. They would not even achieve a 35% blocking vote.
      This has all been carefully thought through by Brussels. If Germany and France have been paid off, the budget will pass.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 6:56 am | Permalink

        on the budget you are right but I was talking about a monetary and political union,

        • mancunius
          Posted May 4, 2018 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

          But it would be unwise to assume that (further) political union will be left to a new treaty – it can easily be pushed through under Lisbon, and under the right horse-trading, even with ‘unanimity’.
          Monetary union can be achieved by making life more difficult for countries outside the euro, which will find themselves increasingly subsidising the eurozone.
          The next eurozone bank crisis will be a make-or-break point.

    • Peter Wood
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

      The ONLY voice that matters is German. Have you heard any dissent from them? This IS the German plan, without Germany funding the EU, there is no EU, they call the shots, wake-up.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 6:58 am | Permalink

        you are talking about the budget I was talking about that John Mentioned the political and monetary union

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 9:52 am | Permalink

      Denmark has a treaty opt-out from ever having to join the euro; all the other member states which are not yet in the euro are under a treaty obligation to join it.

  7. Dave Andrews
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    To be fair, the EU is also cutting spending in other areas. They wish to cut their spend in Poland and Hungary, ostensibly because of their refusal to adopt an open border policy.

    • mancunius
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

      Yet the implication of that is that once Brussels has decided (which it will after some token national ‘reform’) that it’s OK to carry on with the eastward-flowing subsidies, the budget will need to be increased still further.

      That news will go down like a house on fire in Vienna and the Hague.

  8. Peter
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    I wonder how much the UK will contribute to this EU budget?

    And for how long?

    I fear the worst.

  9. Peter
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Predictably the customs union decision was either kicked down the road, or there was a face- saving declaration.

    Interesting to read reports that May is just afraid of Remainers like Grieve and co as she is of Rees-Mogg and the ERG.

    She will not be able to keep both factions onside indefinitely.

    • Andy
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

      Very true.

      The Conservative party of Grieve, Clarke, Morgan, Soubry and Rudd is not the UKIP-lite party of Rees-Mogg and Duncan Smith.

      The first is sensible and electable. The other is rather embarrassing, ranting joke.

      Don’t get me wrong. I hope the Tories do pick Rees-Mogg as leader.

      The subsequent electoral wipeout will be an absolute joy to watch.

      • Richard1
        Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

        I think Gove is the most likely choice for next leader – and the best.

      • Posted May 3, 2018 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

        Gleeful remainder, Andy? Why does it excite you, the very idea of the UK suffering in any way?

        I wonder where your loyalties lie.

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

          Obviously Lord Andy Haw-Haw’s primary loyalty is to the EU, indeed like most of those who have wangled their way into Parliament in one House or the other. He will be in the company of maybe 1% or fewer of those who voted to stay in the EU, the other 99% plus who voted that way in the referendum being decent loyal people who incorrectly but sincerely judged that to be best for our national interests.

      • Anonymous
        Posted May 3, 2018 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

        “The subsequent electoral wipeout will be an absolute joy to watch.”

        And the closure of private schools in Remain areas when Corbyn gets in.

      • Edward2
        Posted May 3, 2018 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

        Andy
        One minute you love democracy and the result of voting the next minute it irritates you.

        • bluedog
          Posted May 4, 2018 at 6:02 am | Permalink

          When democracy is a bottom up process in which the sans culottes cause an upset, the democratic outcome is described as ‘populism’. Democracy is the term used describe a top-down process in which the electorate buys the line being sold by the elites. Hence Andy’s dilemma.

      • Bandy Andy
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 6:08 am | Permalink

        Wrong as usual, Andy.

        Labour got disappointing results yesterday.

    • Helen Smith
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

      She shouldn’t be trying, Brexit won the referendum so Remainers have to accept that

  10. Epíkouros
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    What will the EU’s members say about this? There will be some whining some demanding that it be watered down but in their hearts they will know they can do nothing to stop the commission from forging ahead. As soon as a country joins the EU then that nation’s power is stripped away from it and vested in the hands of the commissioners and technocrats resident in Brussels. Ironically the SNP with its demand for independence tells us how distasteful being in that position is and the UK is a far more benign union than the EU. The fact that the SNP wants out of the UK but in to the more tyrannical clutches of the EU tells us only of the mindset of the left. It is bereft of logic, reason and common sense and epitomises the height of hypocrisy.

    The majority vote for Brexit also indicates that the lack of indepence to choose one’s own actions and policies does not sit well with us in the rest of the UK. As it appears we value freedom far more than those who live on the mainland of Europe. And why not as after all freedom is a precious commodity that one clings to for dear life.

    Just a cursory glance at the figures and the proposed changes that Brussels will bring in which they will as they will override all opposition to me speaks of a move by them that will impoverish and cause suffering for millions of EU citizens. It is a recipe for disaster. Taxes and debt will soar, growth will decline and life will become more regimented to counter dissatisfaction and dissent. The enormous bureaucracy, amount of power, inflexibility, centralised control and non accountability an organisation like the EU requires to acquire for itself to allow it to function will see it built but not for long will it stay erect. Eventually it will collapse as it will have inbuilt inadequacies political, economic and social. It will be too unwieldy to cope with the trials and tribulations of governing a vast population of diverse peoples and nations. It has been tried before since Assyrian times and they have all failed. It appears if you do not learn from the mistakes made in the past then you are doomed to repeat them.

  11. Richard1
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    The direction of travel of the EU is very clear, and denial of this by Remain in the referendum was their equivalent of ‘£350m pw for the NHS’. The question now is, is it possible for a European country to have a friendly and cooperative relationship with this emerging empire focusing on free trade in goods and services, without either being a member or agreeing to be subordinated to all its laws and regulations as if you are a member? We don’t know the answer. I think we will only find out if the Govt have a credible strategy to leave under WTO terms, so the EU are obliged to make a choice. If the EU think they can shoehorn the U.K. into vassal state status through membership of either or both of the customs union and the single market they will certainly do that, and not bother with a proper negotiation.

  12. formula57
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    “…as they move to legislate for a “common consolidated corporation tax base” – poor old Ireland eh?

    • mancunius
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

      We did warn them. They wouldn’t listen, and still won’t.

  13. Denis Cooper
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    “The EU will … up its share of customs revenue from 80% to 90%.”

    Well, 100% of it is the EU’s customs revenue generated by the EU’s common external tariff, part of the EU’s common commercial policy the creation of which was a “logical consequence” of the EU customs union:

    http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=493

    “Treaty of Lisbon enters into force – Implications for the EU’s trade policy”

    “The European Union’s trade policy”

    “The European Union created a Common Commercial Policy to govern its trade relations with non-EU countries. The creation of a common commercial policy followed as a logical consequence of the formation of a customs union among its Member States. The European Union’s trade policy therefore establishes common rules including, among others, a common customs tariff, a common import and export regime and the undertaking of uniform trade liberalization measures as well as trade defence instruments.

    The Common Commercial Policy is explicitly placed under the exclusive competence of the Union (Article 3 of the Treaty of Lisbon). This confirms existing case-law of the European Court of Justice and means that the Union alone is able to legislate and conclude international agreements in this field.”

    It is collected by the EU member states as agents of the EU, and the correct perspective is that they are allowed to keep 20% of the money extracted to cover their costs in carrying that task on behalf of the EU. It used to be 25% until that was changed by a 2014 Decision that I mentioned in a comment on this thread back in March:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/03/07/let-the-uk-be-a-voice-for-free-trade/

    “5) The European Council of 7 and 8 February 2013 concluded that the system for collection of traditional own resources is to remain unchanged. However, from 1 January 2014, Member States are to retain, by way of collection costs, 20 % of the amounts collected by them.”

    Presumably these successive moves reflect more efficient methods of collection, payments away from the borders rather than the more traditional on the spot payments at customs posts at the borders, the sort of outdated system that some dishonest people pretend the UK government wants to instal at the Irish border.

    While we are in the EU it makes good sense for us to collect the EU’s customs duties on its behalf, the sheer barminess comes in with the idea that we should continue to do so even after we have left the EU. Clearly somebody does not want to cut the apron strings, they wants as little change as possible with us staying as close as possible to Brussels.

  14. agricola
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    Yes we knew the EU’s intention was single nation building, which is why 17.4 million UK citizens opted for an independent UK.

    More or less from now on they are on their own politically. It will not be an easy ride for the USEU builders. Their single currency will not work properly for the benefit of all until they have a USEU, but there is no appetite for it among the nation states. They even seem intent on punishing nation states that show dissent.

    For the next ten years I see the EU as a very volatile place which will reflect on them as a customer of the UK. It makes our intention to trade with the rest of the World, unencumbered by EU protectionist rules, a much safer bet for our own future well being.

    Can we assume that our dabbling with a customs union in any of it’s versions is now dead in the water. I do hope so and that David Davis can now get on with telling the EU how future trade will be conducted.

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 12:04 am | Permalink

      No, you cannot assume any such thing. Everything John Redwood points out arises from the Five Presidents’ Report on completing economic and monetary union prior to founding the Federal State of Europe. The first stages did not require amendments to the treaties. All the necessary changes to the treaties are intended to be in effect by around 2025. Thus they will be well in hand by the end of UK’s transition period. I believe it is the intention behind the transition that UK’s program should be more closely aligned with the EU’s program for completing integration. Therefore by 2021 the Government will argue it is sensible to offer a referendum on UK joining the impending Federal State of Europe (or just to go ahead and do it) because that is the next step after completing economic and monetary union. the target date is around 2030.
      One has to agree that it will be an historic issue affecting the entire world. UK should certainly take it very seriously indeed.

      • Peter D Gardner
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 12:09 am | Permalink

        Of course any changes to EU law made in order to facilitate integration – including contributions to these new funds and further euro bail outs, EU jurisprudence etc etc – will be imposed on UK without UK having any say in them between March 2019 and Dec 2021. Bravo, Mrs May!

  15. Ian wragg
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    It’s interesting that the EU wants to take 90% of the CET up from 80% today. Next it will be 100%. Where would that leave Robbins and Heywoods customs partnership.
    Likewise the 3% levy on corporation tax. How will Ireland react when they are forced to charge the EU standard rate and all those brass plaques vanish. This is a federalist budget and can only help the leave cause.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

      Well, no matter how efficient it may become in the future collection of the CET will never be entirely cost-free for whoever is doing it, and if that continues to be the EU member states then they may still need to be recompensed.

  16. Stred
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    Well they have to find enough to pay commissioners tax free salaries and pensions. Those like ( named ed) could hardly manage on their meagre daily allowance and still come in to undermine democracy.

  17. Lifelogic
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    It is indeed heading for a full economic and monetary union. One that will be anti-democratic and is very dangerous indeed. Thank goodness we are (perhaps) finally leaving despite our appalling politicians and civil servants in general.

    The Mail yesterday tells Theresa May “to Trust your admirable instincts Prime Minister”. Where on earth did they get the idea she has admirable instincts? Almost everything she and Hammond have done has been totally misguided. She was a remainer, a useless Home Sectretary who presided over a totally incompetent Home Office with a police force who have largely given up on crime. Her policies of the highest and most complex taxes for 20 years, endless waste and endless daft regulations has given us lower real incomes now than in 2007 and growth rates that are about 1/3 of what they were four years ago. He early election with punishment manifesto was breathtakingly incompetent. Her patronising, repetitive & robotic delivery make it all even worse.

    Admirable instincts in what way?

    Now we have Hunt with the breast screeening cancer outrage. Will there be corporate manslaughter charges. I assume there would be had a programming error on a plane killed hundreds in a plane crashes (for example). Even after discover four more months have passed with (one assumes) even more deaths and medical problems resulting.

    • Peter Lavington
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 11:55 am | Permalink

      Just a comment on your breast screening ‘scandel’. Is it not time people took responsibility for their health? If I were a woman and had not been screened I would have asked why not? Are women so irresponsible that they make no effort unless they are reminded?

  18. Turboterrier.
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    And we still have numpties in our party representing our interest by wanting to stay in this failing organisation. They think we will be better off than out? Male cow poo poo

  19. oldtimer
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    The UK electorate made a wise decision to vote to Leave the EU. I find it incomprehensible why so many in the political establishment believe we should have remained within it. I also find it unacceptable that so many of them are seeking every way they can find to compromise the UK’s exit.

    • Andy
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

      They’re not. They are simply watching Brexiteers fail to deliver on every single one of their lies.

      From Remainers and the EU it has been a masterclass on sitting back, doing nothing and letting the Brexiteers spectacularly and embarrassingly fail all by themselves.

      • Bandy Andy
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 6:10 am | Permalink

        Not exactly helped by the Remain establishment, are we, Andy.

      • bluedog
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 6:11 am | Permalink

        Remain Central can be found in the unelected House of Lords. On 18th June the parliament debates a motion arising from a petition that sought the abolition of the House of Lords. Whether or not the motion is defeated is immaterial at this juncture. The point is that the rationale for the House of Lords in its current form has been challenged and that challenge is now part of the political agenda. If Corbyn adopts abolition as part of his electoral pitch, he would probably win back the loyalty of his Brexiteer constituents and form a government. In summary, the 787 peers should start to buy other first class season tickets on the gravy train.

      • Edward2
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

        Remain have mounted a huge campaign to frustrate and delay leaving the EU.
        It is the opposite of sitting back and doing nothing.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:11 am | Permalink

        What an incorrigible liar you are, Andy. Their active attempts to thwart Brexit started within days of the referendum. When did the first applications for judicial review go in? At the earliest opportunity, on the Monday.

      • libertarian
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        Talking about failure and poor leadership has your “multi million company” folded yet, have the 30 staff you sacked found other work?

        Andy should be listened too he’s an expert in failure

  20. Turboterrier.
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    In light of your excellent post today John I just hope that the likes of Clark, Hammond, Soubry, Morgan, Grieve hold their hands up and admit they are all wrong and do their noble l and honourable thing and resign

    • mancunius
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

      Porcine trans-fenestral aerobatics are more likely….

  21. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    The sooner we are out -not part in as Mrs May seems to want- but fully out, the better.

  22. Iain Moore
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    We have the dishonesty of the Remainers, who say they want us to stay in the EU, but who fail to explain to people that the EU is not a static unchanging organisation, and is en route to becoming, what it has always been heading to , that of an EU state. Shame that all these fanatical Remainers in Parliament, who are trying to obstruct our Brexit, aren’t being made to explain what EU they envision us being part of, but then of course their friends in the media have never been too keen on exposing that agenda.

  23. ChrisS
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    “It is a sensible budget given the ambitions to create a political union”
    Maybe it does seem “sensible” in the closed world of Brussels but in the real world this is a completely daft budget.

    What household or organisation suffering a very large reduction in its income significantly INCREASES expenditure in the next budget round, demanding ever more money from a diminishing number of Countries ? Then it proposes to make things even worse for those same Countries by sweeping away rebates.

    Thanks to the EU’s irresistible urge to interfere in the internal affairs of its members, Juncker already has enough problems with the former Eastern European States. Now he’s on a collision course with them over withholding funds if they don’t obey Brussels dictats. As the budget is one of the few areas left where member states have a veto, we can be certain it will be used.

    Then we have the whole nonsense over the European Army about which they continue to tell the same lies Cameron, Clegg and Co told us during the referendum campaign. Why doesn’t Brussels just tell Germany and others to spend more under the auspices of NATO?

    A sensible budget this is not. It is one that is bound to cause immense conflict between the Commission and Governments.

    Thank goodness we are leaving.

  24. alan jutson
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    It was all in the Five Presidents Report, published BEFORE the referendum by the EU, which Remainers all refused to mention.

    It was and still is on line to view.

    It never was a question of Remain as we were, but to Remain in an ever growing financial and political project, which was to take more and more control from National Governments.

    The truth of the EU project is at last coming to the surface, probably just in time for many.

    • Andy
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

      Not true. National governments retain their veto over such things. As much as you may wish it otherwise.

      • Edward2
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

        But history shows that the project has moved from being just a simple Common Market to an EU in a few decades.
        An enormous change of power over member states in a short time.
        And it has ambitions and a plan to go much further.
        Give it another 20 years and it will be the United States of Europe with 35 member states.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:15 am | Permalink

        Do tell us about all those vetoes, Andy.

        In the 1975 referendum we were promised in the government’s pamphlet that we would always have a veto over every EEC proposal. That was a lie.

      • alan jutson
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 11:00 am | Permalink

        Andy

        Thought it was qualified majority voting now.

        Have you read the Five Presidents Report ?

  25. frankD
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Great stuff..singing Ode to Joy as I do my morning chores..

    It all depends on the way you look at it..if you are a committed European as I am- I can see only responsible, forward leaning and enlightened thinking . I have no doubt the EU will do whatever is necessary to progress the EU project- I’m sure- so don’t worry yourselves ‘brexiteers’ on our behalf- instead you should look out for yourselves and the way I read it is that the cliff edge awaits- How the hell you’re going to dig yourselves out of this one I have no idea..am glad I got my shiny new EU Irish passport and will shortly be on my way

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

      frankD

      ……an attempt at satire I suppose?

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 4:27 am | Permalink

      I too am a committed European (with an Italian wife and properties in France and Italy). That is why I hate the EU, as indeed do probably a majority of the people in Europe. The EU is hugely damaging to Europe with its anti-democratic, one size fits all, misguided bureaucratic agenda.

  26. VotedOut
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Tacitus on Rome …

    Step by step they were led to things which dispose to vice, the lounge, the bath, the elegant banquet. All this in their ignorance they called civilisation, when it was but a part of their servitude.

    And for our time …

    Step by step they were led to things which dispose to Unity, the Single Market and Customs Union, the ECJ, the European Arrest Warrant, the elegant Eurocrat post MP career and pension All this in their ignorance they called civilisation, when it was but a part of their servitude.

  27. BCL
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    It seems that almost every time the EU makes a pronouncement it vindicates the UK’s decision to leave.

  28. Michael
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    The EU still hopes/expects to receive a significant financial contribution from the UK going way into the future. And our House of Lords is cheering them on.

  29. Iain Gill
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Ask for the money back we have loaned to the European bank, Eire, and the Southern Irish banks too…

  30. Adam
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    27 sovereign nations funding EU wastage, without UK alimony, causes a choice for each of them.

    Increasing nations’ self-defence is overdue on fairness. So it is sensible; but an EU controlling military power risks itself.

    Leadership exists only with followers. The EU turns & churns a defective path of obstructions. A union forcing adverse directions self-destructs.

  31. Alison
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Digressing to the NI-Eire issue, which Varadkar and Barnier are massively inflating: time is fast running out. Last time we approached a massive deadline, November-December 2017, Mrs May caved in, spectacularly. The result: a financial cave-in, promising far more than should ever have been agreed, and a “back-stop” agreement, effectively creating a border in the North Sea, leaving NI outside the UK. To which, Mrs May later said, no prime minister would ever agree.
    I foresee that Mrs May will cave in, equally spectacularly, in June.
    March was pretty bad too, with the criminal agreement, giving away our seas.
    How can we prevent the next cave-in?

  32. Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    Yes, it’s always been about the money and control….

    I would have a problem with any direct EU taxation – they clearly have the power to push around heads of state… with them collecting taxes directly means they no longer need approval from national governments.

    BREXIT has to happen, otherwise, we will be sucked so deep into all of this this, that we will be ruined – and the EU would not be adverse to punishing Britain, in all sorts of ways, for daring to want to escape their clutches.

  33. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    That’s the end of Corporation Tax convergence on the island of Ireland then.
    Corporation Tax increases in the south will push businesses over the border.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

      Sir Joe Soap

      Bingo, the real reason established!

      “Corporation Tax increases in the south will push businesses over the border.”

      Irish Government’s great fear!

  34. Norman
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Thank you JR – what a gift!
    The way the establishment has behaved of late, we do not deserve to get out.
    Britain’s membership appears to have been the brake on this ominous fulfillment, and our intended departure has given the green light.
    Sadly, because of our own collective folly it could be a very messy business, with a devastation of our current political landscape.
    But when I look back over our history, in the mercies of God, get out we must!

  35. graham1946
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    From what I hear on the news some countries are baulking at the idea of making up the shortfall of UK money. They seem to think that a smaller EU should mean a lower budget. Whatever gave them that idea?

    Had we been staying in our rebates would have gone and tax is gradually becoming an EU competence. Do the Remoaners still not see the way this behemoth is going? None so blind as those that don’t want to see.

  36. Robert Polatajko
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    So all the references by the leave campaign to the EUSSR, a European army, federal Europe were correct and Remainer rejection of them were lies.

  37. Tad Davison
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    And yet the ‘flat Earth’ Remainers will still argue for the UK to belong to the EU. It’s as if they have taken some kind of potion that prevents them seeing the bigger picture. Either that, or they just simply do not care that we in the UK risk being subsumed and subjugated in perpetuity by an out of control steamroller – that is, apart from those tiny few at the top of the heap who hold all the power and plot its course inch by stealthy inch.

    I heard a snowflake on the television recently, saying that he just wanted to remain so that we could still be friends with European countries. He almost had me saying ‘Ah, lets all hold hands together, then have a group hug’. If ever anyone was under a misapprehension, and did not fully understand what we on the leave side want to achieve, it was this person, yet remain politicians should be more politically savvy, and that bit makes me deeply suspicious. Nobody wants to be on unfriendly terms with other EU countries, yet unscrupulous remain politicians will happily let the myth prevail that the opposite is true. No, we just want to get back control of our own destiny, but for that, we need good leadership, and that just is not happening.

    Tad Davison

    Cambridge

    • Andy
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

      No you don’t. Your average Brexiteer just doesn’t like foreigners. Don’t over complicate the vote. It was about xenophobia. Nothing more nor less.

      • 37/6
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 5:52 am | Permalink

        The highest number of votes ever fielded by the BNP (the xenophobe’s party) was around 560,000.

        It’s safe to say that 16,900,000 Brexit voters are not xenophobes.

        Expressing xenophobia through the ballot box was always an option but was rejected outright by the British public.

        When are you going to give our people some credit ?

        Yours is a ploy to subvert democracy by discrediting the integrity of the vote.

        • 37/6
          Posted May 4, 2018 at 5:55 am | Permalink

          Perhaps Dr Redwood could dedicate a post to rebutting the myth that Brexit voters are xenophobes using similar logic to mine.

          The figures are very easy to extrapolate and no-one has praised the British public for their tolerance and pragmatism having been inundated with record numbers of immigrants. Nor for their peaceful use of the ballot box.

          • Edward2
            Posted May 4, 2018 at 9:53 am | Permalink

            And in the Council election voting we see no success for UKIP nor any other fringe candidates.
            If Andy were right the opposite should have happened.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 11:21 am | Permalink

        You talk absolute balls and I’m tempted not to take advantage of someone with an inferior intellect to the rest of the contributors on this site! It was about democracy and having the right to hold our political representatives to account.

        In the test put forward by the late Tony Benn who was hardly a Xenophobe, ‘What power do you have, who gave it to you, and how do we get rid of you?

        You remain people really are pathetic!

  38. bluedog
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Saved by the bell. The impending consolidation of tax revenues under the aegis of the EU would have had the effect of undermining Sterling and forcing the UK into the Euro.

  39. Helen Taylor
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    And so the noose tightens, hopefully our neck is out of it

  40. Hope
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    The U.K. has agreed to pay £100 billion plus add ons kept out of public sight under the civil service KitKat policy! Where was the line by line examination or there will no longer be huge payments to the EU strap lines? May has broken her word we need verifiable facts as to how much we pay, we are taxed more now than under Labour. Please tell us the truth.

    Are the Tory Lords who voted against the govt going to lose the whip or any sanction made against them?

  41. Pat
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Indeed- and once we are properly out there will an alternative for those other countries unhappy with the situation. That’s why they are fighting so hard to stymie Brexit.

  42. rose
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Well, it was obvious all along, and Macron gave the game away some time ago, that they would deal with the loss of UK money by punishing Poland and Hungary – and anyone else who doesn’t toe the EUSSR line.

    • mancunius
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

      Yes, it’s very convenient for Brussels. You might almost think they’re been deliberately provoking a quarrel with Visegrad. Curiously, their quarrel does seem to date from the period shortly after the UK’s Referendum Brexit vote. Strange coincidence, that.

  43. Edwardm
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    What you report confirms many peoples concerns about the aims and costs of the EU, and of course reinforces the reasons why many wish to leave.
    I notice that very little or nothing was/is said by Remainers on the direction of travel of the EU – they seem not to want to promote the reality of the EU. It says much about the character and judgement of such people who want to obstruct Brexit and have us remain as unheard vassals in a centralised unaccountable monolithic organisation.

    • Andy
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

      Remainers don’t say anything about the direction of travel of the EU because we don’t have a problem with it. And, if we did, we would have voted for MEPs to raise those problems for us. MEPs who, incidentally, are far more representative than MPs ever have been.

      Your mistake is to judge the future by the standards of the past. The Brexiteer world view is simply archaic. In 1945 any sort of long term economic and political partnership with Germany would have been unthinkable to most of those who had just returned from the war. This is because all they’d ever known was a belligerent and hostile Germany. Baby boomers are overwhelmingly Brexiteers. You grew up with the Dambusters, The Great Escape and bitter recent memories of conflict with Germany – and good recent memories of the British Empire.

      This is all irrelevant to my generation, which came of age as Germany reunited. Yes we are aware of the horrors in its past but in our lifetimes Germany has only been a force for good. Likewise France, Spain, Italy and so many others.

      We have literally seen the EU transform Europe hugely for the better during our lifetimes and we overwhelmingly support it because we do not retain the post Imperial wartime rose-tinted glasses that many of you do.

      I have never been more confident that the UK will again be leading Europe in my lifetime. The pathetic and irrelevant Brexiteer world view is dying out – and, ironically, Brexit will ultimately kill it for good. The world has moved on since 1945. You all should too. Brexiteers need to stop being the political equivalent of Dad’s Army.

      • Anonymous
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 4:53 am | Permalink

        Did anyone bother reading this ?

        • Edward2
          Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

          I find myself drawn to read his pathetic ramblings which are increasingly verging to being hate speeches against one particular section of our society.

          Presumably Andy must think old people control every one of the 160 nations which are not in the EU

      • stred
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 9:32 am | Permalink

        Try telling this load of codswallop to the unemployed young people in Southern Europe, made redundant by a strong Euro, for them, and German industry benefitting from a lower rate than the Deutschmark. The EU is unpopular with young voters there. They would really appreciate your advice and welcome you back. Tell it to the Dutch taxpayers who will have to pay more for the new army, Junker’s youth corps and Merkels non- working gastarbeiters.

      • Edwardm
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:21 am | Permalink

        You don’t have a problem being in an autocracy. How sorry.

      • Norman
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

        Good bit of journalism there, Andy, and you make some good points. However, like so many, you are blinded by ‘the spirit of the age’. You do not know where it’s leading, and by the time you find out, it might well be too late, although I sincerely hope not.

  44. Ron Olden
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Yes I noticed that as well but didn’t comment on it because the BBC would come back and say it’s merely a ‘reported’ £12 Billion.

    But this figure is still not the whole story. It nets off things that if we had the choice of spending the money on ourselves, we wouldn’t.

    The correct figure is still the £350 Million a week. Just as the correct figure for my Council Tax is what it says on the bill. I don’t net off the things the Council spends on me, that I don’t want.

    Back to the budget however, let’s see how their budget ‘negotiations’ go. France, Germany, and the Netherlands have all denounced the proposals for diametrically opposing reasons.

    France says the Agriculture subsidies cuts are unacceptable. I assume Ireland thinks the same thing, and can’t be too thrilled about the Corporation Tax Plan either. But are keeping quiet for the time being, obvious reasons.

    The Netherlands are complaining that the budget cuts aren’t big enough, and that its’ share of the contribution is too much. Germany also complains they have to pay too much.

    Poland, Hungary and Austria are complaining about something. Although the details escape me, and I can’t be bothered to find out.

    Without the UK there to take all the flak for trying to bring some order to this budget and casting our veto, the rest of them are going to have to grow up, and up and put their own house in order.

    Let’s see how all that goes. I predict a riot.

    And it’ll all go up in flames in 2019, anyway, if the UK doesn’t get the necessary Trade Deal, to justify us paying our £37 Billion ‘Divorce Settlement’, and allow them to carry on maintaining a £60 Billion Trade Surplus with us.

    We have all the cards, assuming that is, that the Remainers don’t throw them all in the English Channel.

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

      As I understand it the UK will pay the £37 Billion ‘Divorce Settlement’ during the transition period regardless of any deal on the future relationship. The condition that is is contingent upon a satisfactory trade deal was dropped a long time ago. Once paid it cannot be recovered.

      • mancunius
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

        Exactly – JR, I can’t understand why you are not speaking out against this idiotic advance payment for services-that-will-never-be-rendered.

  45. Helen Smith
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    So if somehow the Lords kept us in we would lose our rebate, making the £350m a week gross figure a net figure, not a lie then. We would also see a 3% addition to Corporation Tax, we would have to hand over virtually every penny raised through the Common External Tariff, as indeed we shall have to if they keep us in the CU.

    Really is there a single argument for being in the EU, just one, anybody?

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

      Helen Smith

      Of course there are?

      1. Roaming charges reductions
      2. er……
      3. er………..
      4. er……………

      …..oh I give up!

      • Edward2
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:02 am | Permalink

        The EU claimed they were the ones who achieved a reduction in mobile phone charges in Europe but it was customer pressure which got phone companies to get together and do this.

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted May 5, 2018 at 4:14 am | Permalink

          Edward2

          Not strictly true. With one of my Directorships; I was an Executive Director for the largest Mobile clearing house in Europe (Globally) and was directly involved with the EU’s bureaucracy and their objective to reduce roaming charges on behalf of European customers. I personally (Team) liaised with many of the mobile operators on a regular basis, to negotiate revised contracts.

          The EU pushed the main mobile players hard to reduce their roaming charges….took a long time to achieve. The main Operators did not listen directly to customer complaints (actually in many instances ignored them). I don’t give credit for the majority of EU actions in Europe, but on this occasion I do!

          That said, unfortunately, we were on the negative receiving end of Mobile Operators wishing to halve their mobile clearing-house charges (£Millions of contract losses). Interestingly, to alleviate for lost voice traffic revenue in Europe, the operators strategically focused/pushed for greater WiFi implementation throughout Europe in an effort to recover their lost voice traffic via new data traffic revenue.

          Internet telephony/data is now big business, along with the ever-pervasive “Big Data” or better known as the Internet of Things. Happy days!

          Regarding the rest of EU…zero!

          • Edward2
            Posted May 5, 2018 at 7:25 am | Permalink

            Presumably the steady reduction in world wide call costs and monthly tariff offers and phone’s with greatly improved features is also due to the EU?

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted May 5, 2018 at 11:22 am | Permalink

            Edward2

            No not EU globally…..but global Business dynamics and changing areas of mobile monetization?…..as I said earlier……Internet telephony/data is now big business, along with the ever-pervasive “Big Data” or better known as the Internet of Things. IP telephony has been reducing voice traffic for years.

            I am a committed Brexiteer and believe the EU is not fit for purpose (never was), and we must leave post haste…..I am guessing you are in favour of leaving too, but you almost sound like a Remainer, where facts are often disputed. Facts are facts, no matter how unpleasant they may be on either side of the debate! Though, Remoaners are not interested in real facts at all, as we know.

            David Price

          • Edward2
            Posted May 5, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

            I disagree with your fact.
            You say the EU created cheap roaming and ever cheaper calls and phone tariffs.
            I realise they had a role.
            But market forces were in my opinion the driving factor.
            The EU did a fine job of PR in claiming full credit.

        • David Price
          Posted May 5, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

          Quite, the credit should really go to the INTUG and the OECD while if anything the EU hindered the action on roaming charges. The EU merely took credit for work done by others.

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted May 6, 2018 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

          Edward2

          I agree it is debatable, however, I speak as an insider “the EU did a lot of pushing” whereas you on the other hand, I suggest, speak as an outsider…. (unless you were an insider with the knowledge gained from direct activity/exposure, from either a Mobile Company or Supplier working with the EU?) ….with minimal real knowledge or exposure to the contractual rigours that were pursued.

          Perhaps, for my personal guidance, you can explain your demonstrable personal knowledge and direct experience on this issue…..as I may have misunderstood you?

  46. Blue and Gold
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Eh…..and just what exactly is wrong with ‘economic, monetary and political union’ ?
    The days of the British Empire are long gone. The Brexiteers wish to turn the clock back, but the world has changed.

    We do not have democracy in this country. Our electoral system is a disgrace and whichever party forms a government, it is always with a minority of the electorate that has voted for them, (and no I am not a Lib Dem or supporter of a small party). We have an unelected sovereign, (note we ARE a sovereign nation although the Brexiteers don’t think so), and an unelected 2nd chamber.

    The British economy…..the slowest growing of the G8 and growing by a pathetic 0.1 per cent in the first quarter of this year. (This was not to do with the weather).

    On the World stage President Macron of France is now taking the leadership role, whilst we tear ourselves apart over Brexit which is turning into a fiasco. We now look pathetic.

    The 50 million of us who did not vote for the downgrading of our country will continue the debate, and one day you can be sure we will rejoin.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

      Blue and Gold

      …..another attempt at satire I suppose?…..do you know Andy and frankD personally?

    • Edward2
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

      50 million now you claim.
      How you remainers pevert statistics.

  47. margaret howard
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    It never was just a trading arrangement.

    Extract from the official 1975 referendum leaflet:

    The aims of the Common Market are:

    Bring together the peoples of Europe

    Raise living standards and improve working conditions

    Promote growth and boost world trade

    Help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world

    Help maintain peace and freedom

    • Andy
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

      Mission accomplished.

      • mancunius
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

        Yes, insofar as the EU used monetary union to create the poorest regions of Europe and condemn their younger generations to lasting unemployment, so that it can – maybe – help them some time in… the future.

    • Edward2
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

      Shame they have failed in every objective.

    • Edward2
      Posted May 5, 2018 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

      It didn’t mention one centralised quasi government with legal supremacy over its members.
      It’s own flag money embassies and anthem.
      All denied until very recently.

  48. James Matthews
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    “The EU will sweep aside all remaining member states rebates over the period 2012-26.”

    Should this read 2022-26?

  49. Rien Huizer
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    This budget is far from definitive. Your comments re defense/security etc> The amounts involved would not even buy two years maintenance of the QE carrier and its yet to arrive F35Bs.. Percentages can be misleading.

    One ot the things the outgoing Juncker executive has st in motion is a discussion about what it means to be an EU member. Clearly, countries lacking rule of law and democracy features will find it harder to stay. Juncker may behave like he is still in charge of an expansion programme but the future EU will consist of a set of highly coordinated economies (12-15 members. and a periphery with -maybe- maintenance of nominal membership but little influence. People like Orban will have to make a choice (of which he is certainly capable) , people like Kaszinsky may have to look elsewhere. Countries that cannot control ex-army professional criminals may see their subsidies curbed.

    Clearly, a EU without the UK will be able to spend less (except on transitions items) and addictional tasks may have to be funded out opf savings.
    Anyway, the EU budget is a very small fraction of total gvt expensiture in the EU. However that is not a reason to be generous.

    • rose
      Posted May 3, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

      Can you point us to a single occasion on which a member of the EU has thanked us for our years of contributions?

      • Rien Huizer
        Posted May 6, 2018 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

        Or for Poland’s?

  50. AndersK
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    We are leaving so I cannot understand the fixation some of us still have about things European..instead we should be focusing on ourselves and the terrible mess that is UK government today..

  51. mancunius
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    France and Germany have both said they are ready to pay towards Juncker’s higher budget, so that’s game over, really.
    And that their leaders can so cheerfully promise more and more of their country’s taxes for a project that is increasingly unpopular among Europe’s voters, shows just how successfully democracy has been countermanded by the national political elites.

    Not least ours, of course. Here’s Ed Davey in the FT: “So we are telling them [i.e. EU Nationals in Britain] that they can vote and how you do it. And by the way — if you don’t like Brexit and you want to punish the government — vote for us.”
    And the FT helpfully published a graphic showing that EU nationals could boost the LibDem vote share by as much as 12 percentage points in some boroughs.
    A Danish MEP called on Danes living in Britain to vote for the LibDems: ““The are fighting for an ‘exit from Brexit’, as it’s called, and that’s why it’s so important that you get to vote for them in the local election, so that you can fight for your interests,” he said.

    Charming.

  52. Laurence Hodge
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    The House of Lords and remainer MPs seem bent on frustrating an orderly Brexit.

    Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty having been invoked is irrevocable and an attempt by a government of any complexion to back-track on the referendum result and annul the Article 50 notification – even were it to be acceptable in Brussels) would be electorally difficult.

    I should welcome your view on what might happen if the government ducks further interaction with Parliament in the UK or M. Barnier and simply sits out the intervening months.

    Am I correct in thinking that the UK can simply “crash out” of the EU in March 2019 without further discussion with parties here or abroad?

    • mancunius
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

      Unless May and all the members of the 27 were to unanimously agree to extend the period of negotiation.

  53. Peter D Gardner
    Posted May 3, 2018 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    It amazes me that in UK politicians can credibly claim something that is demonstrably untrue by virtue of publications such as the Five Presidents’ report. Like Article 50, it is written in simple plain English and yet people don’t read it and prefer to listen to politicians telling us that it doesn’t exist, or it isn’t true, or it’s fake news, or the words don’t really mean what they have meant for the last thousand years, or it will never actually come to pass. And 48% of voters believe them!
    The EU is sneaky in many ways – that is its modus operandi because the founding fathers knew supra-national government to be inherently anti-democratic – but it is perfectly open in its intentions and publishes policy and strategy documents telling us. Why don’t people read them and believe them?

    • Henry Spark
      Posted May 4, 2018 at 5:32 am | Permalink

      I do not believe you have read the Five Presidents report. If you had, you would know it is completely irrelevant to the UK. It concerns the Eurozone, from which we have a watertight opt out

      • Edward2
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

        We have no opt out from rulings of the ECJ
        And with QMV reducing veto options the plan in the presidents report will be implemented.

      • mancunius
        Posted May 4, 2018 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

        Well, we have a much more watertight opt-out now, in leaving the EU – so we won’t have to test your doubtful assertion.

  54. Juiliet
    Posted May 5, 2018 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Last time I saw this kind of setup it was in The Godfather, am I allowed to even say the word Mafia, oh I just did that describe the EU modus operandi

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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