The EU negotiates against its own interests

We read that the EU wishes to follow its veto over the UK’s positive and generous proposals so far with a further push to demand we continue with freedom of movement. This could well be the item that persuades more UK voters that No Deal is the best option.

The EU has broadly stuck to its mantra that you cannot belong to the trade part of the EU without paying contributions, accepting their laws and agreeing freedom of movement. Accepting this many of us said we must leave the Custons Union and single market when we leave the EU. We said offer them a free trade deal. The EU has not even been prepared to talk about this.

This is where they are overplaying their hand. A Free Trade deal is more in their interest than ours. Expecting the kind of concessions from us that they could seek if we wanted to stay in their single market just puts many sensible British voters off any kind of deal.

So now the EU tries to make the Irish border into an issue which can delay Brexit, with no good reason, and works with Remain forces in the UK to tell us we will suffer if we just leave.

The government has nine more months to make sure everything works if we leave without a deal. It needs to show how easy it is to apply the methods we use for non EU trade to EU trade as well. By showing its resolve to do so it will give itself the only chance of actually securing a deal which might be worth considering.

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253 Comments

  1. Lifelogic
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:11 am | Permalink

    Exactly. Unfortunately the current government has no vision, no sensible leadership, a total inability to understand how to negotiate and a compass that is 180 degrees out on taxation levels, over regulation, energy policy, PC drivel, the NHS, housing, education and general economic management as well. A total disaster that could even lose to the disaster that is Corbyn/Mc Donnall/SNP.

    Basically the Tories MPs chose a dithering, Libdim & total electoral liability as PM. Thanks to Gove’s backstabbing the Tory voters, who are far more sensible had, alas, no say in the matter.

    • Hope
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:27 am | Permalink

      JR suggest you read an excellent article Dominic Lawson in the Mail today. The Treasury produce another fake report missing out crucial elements to promote their scare story on behalf of Hammond.

      Also Ambassadors from the EU write a joint letter to woo Americans of the benefit of trading with the EU, including a former UK one, that hails trade with the US and highlights all that is good. They forget to mention it is based on WTO terms! If it works for the EU with the US why not the UK with the EU and UK the US?
      Note to hammond and the Treasury, you are not fit for purpose. Stop making false reports it discredits yourselves, but more importantly our nation. If you do not accept Brexit resign and move/work elsewhere.

      Note to May: you should remain silent and not back EU against the US over trade. You are at the front of a queue with the US when we leave why are you messing it up?

      • Hope
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

        JR, your comments about the EU are wrong. They are acting in concert with May and the retainers who visit Barnier. They demand she gives. Have you not followed the events over the last two years, yes, two years. What has the EU compromised on? Now contrast with May’s key points in her Lancaster speech, her red lines and strap lines. Has she achieved any of them other than the punishment extension to keep the UK in the EU as a vassal state?

        Who would let the EU edit/write her Florence speech setting out what they could have! At the moment she is siding with the EU against Trump. You know trade and commerce is an EU competence so she cannot do anything bilaterally in any event. Why not remain silent build a good relationship with him and take advantage for trade next year? Normal patriotic people would.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

      I occasionally read the comments on this web site. I am always struck by yours – and wonder if you realise how detached from reality your view of the world is. You appear to seriously think that a radical, right-wing, low tax, hang ’em for sheep stealing conservative party would win a landslide.

      One thing I do agree with is the lack of leadership in the Tory Party. I am waiting (and waiting) for the day where May says ‘we tried our best to thrash out a deal, we offered a free trade agreement – but the simple fact is the EU clearly do not want a deal. We’ve wasted enough time on this. No deal it is. We want to trade wit the people of Europe. The EU doesn’t want that to happen.’

      • Lifelogic
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

        I am against capital punishment for sheap stealing or anything else. Especially given the breath taking imcompetence of the DPP with their you are male therefore guilty and no you cannot have the documemts to prove otherwise approach.

        Thatcher won effetively four elections (one with Major as her man) till the voters sussed him out. Heath, Major, Cameron and May have proved to be electoral disasters even against hopeless, open goal opposition like Brown and Corbyn.

      • Peter Wood
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

        Your last paragraph; it not like we weren’t warned, ref. Lord Lawson. Only full preparation for WTO trade terms should be policy now.

    • Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

      I wanted – really and truly wanted – Mrs May to show us by now that she had been playing ‘the long game’ all along. I was ready to celebrate and be magnanimous to all those nay-sayers who didn’t believe in her tactics.

      But…. Now she has proved, with every day that passes, that she is, as you say, LL, a liability. Insincere and dissembling at the very least.

      How terribly sad for the Conservative party – even though it has been the architect of its own demise.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

        Brexit clearly means nothing to T May she is a reamainer and a daft Pv socialist dope and electoral liability too.

  2. Newmania
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:19 am | Permalink

    A Free Trade deal is more in their interest than ours.

    No it is not and the Irish border problem is one the UK has created by deciding it was unimportant compared with our own ethnic purity. We seem to be headed for outright calamity with no opposition and against the overwhelming opposition of everyone who is not retired

    God knows where this will end

    • Richard1
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      The German finance minister has just proposed an EU-wide transaction tax, proceeds to the EU, purpose to bail out insolvent eurozone countries. Its a footnote in the UK press as its assumed it wont apply to us (I wouldn’t be too sure with Mrs May & Mr
      Davis ‘negotiating’…) But had remain won, the UK would now be scurrying desperately either to veto (which wouldn’t work) or to opt out of this dangerous and foolish idea (which would probably become increasingly difficult – see the 5 Presidents’ report). could Continuity Remain advise as to whether this sounds the sort of measure we should regret being shot of as a result of Brexit?

    • Hope
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink

      Based on May’s disaster unilateral agreement with the EU to date the UK would be better off in the EU and better off leaving the EU. Instead she wants to technical leave but remain a vassal state to the EU. She has chosen the worse position of all! Once again, the disaster called May messes up. She has failed every policy issue she has ever been responsible for. Why did you all vote for her?

      We read today Javid is going to recruit detectives in 12 weeks to combat the unprecedented violent crime in London brought by May’s policies. How do they get experience in weeks to investigate?

      Note to Javid: Read how Police chief Bill Bratten reduced serious crime in New York. Central to his success was stop and search that May stopped and made the police scared to use the power! Police forces around the world copied him. May did the opposite!

    • Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:32 am | Permalink

      The Irish border is not a problem that Britain has created. Britain is entitled as is any other country that is part of an international agreement (the EU Treaties) to withdraw from that agreement, in this case via Art 50 TEU, otherwise via the Geneva Convention. Any consequences of that withdrawal must be resolved by all parties concerned (read Art 50 TEU). That is not what’s happening. If you consider that there is already an electronic border between the RoI and NI, all that has to happen is an expansion of that, but the EU only wants to create problems. That is why a no-deal Brexit is the best approach for Britain. The EU doesn’t want to find solutions.

      • getahead
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

        Well said Claudia.

      • Newmania
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

        Ha ha ha ..the Irish border was not created by Britain … ye gods read some history . We can withdraw form the agreement , and we will , what we cannot do is avoid the consequences of that .

        This is frankly childish

        • libertarian
          Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

          Newmania

          Yup read some history , The Common Travel Area was established in 1923

    • Glenn Vaughan
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:51 am | Permalink

      Newmania’s usual alarmist claptrap.

    • mancunius
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

      A Free Trade deal really is more in their interests, by definition, as we have a trade deficit with the EU, and our balance of payments is becoming a matter of concern. As long as we are in the EU, we are forced to accept this increasing deficit. Once we leave, we are free to make our own terms of trade and encourage exports.
      I don’t myself see how looking after the interests of Irish citizens of the UK is a matter of racial purity, but I realize remainers have their own curious sense of logic.

      My business is in great demand in France and Germany: it took off vertically after the referendum, and will carry on flourishing after Brexit.

      I would say, don’t listen to the handwringing fearmongers – but then you are one of that unhappy band yourself: so just ‘Carry On Quietly Fretting Among Yourselves!’ 🙂

    • libertarian
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

      Newmania

      Are you sure ? The EU doesn’t seem to agree with you.

      The EU and all 28 countries Ambassadors just sent an open letter to the USA saying that EU – USA trade is the most important, valuable and mutually agreeable system in the world . Its conducted using WTO rules.

      You and they are completely at odds with reality

      • Newmania
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

        Ummmm you know how many years have been spent trying to forge an equal trade agrteement betweent he two great trdaing blocks right ?

        Oh I see, you don`t

        • Edward2
          Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

          Meanwhile trade carries between America and Europe.
          Growing rapidly too.

        • libertarian
          Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

          Newmania

          Yes I do know how long the EU has taken to fail to negotiate a free trade agreement with their biggest trading partner. Why do you think the EU is such a failure at negotiating FTA’s ?

          Why do you think that the EU has issued a statement saying USA on a WTO is their best ( dream) trading partnership? Do you ever think anything through?

    • Anonymous
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

      ‘Ethnic purity’

      Ah. The petty issues of chronic overcrowding and loss of national identity.

      In an enfranchised society there were always going to be consequences.

      Here they are.

      You were warned time and time and time again that there was disquiet among the populace yet you ignored them.

      • Newmania
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

        The population of this country has increased v roughly from 60m to 70m since the 60s. If it over crowded now it has been for a long long time . If you think the country has become a little bit German or French …well I can`t say I have noticed , not that I would mind .

      • Andy
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 4:19 am | Permalink

        Somewhere around 7% of this ‘overcrowded island, is built up. Yes. You read that right. 7%. We have space. Just no will power.

        For more than 300 years Scotland and England and Wales have been in a far deeper union than the EU is or ever will be. We’ve all retained our national identities pretty well and, hey, we even use the same currency.

        The very notion that being in the EU makes France less French, Italy less Italian or Britain less British is frankly laughable.

        Yes the populace is angry. But it is a cry of ignorance and that is better cured by education not Brexit.

        • Edward2
          Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

          That 7% is a ridiculous statistic.
          Forests, lakes, seashore, hills, mountain ranges, soft ground near the coast, canals, rivers and river banks and so on.
          Where we can live successfully is limited on this island.
          Our cities and towns are getting crowded.
          We are one of the most densely populated countries on Earth.

        • libertarian
          Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

          Andy

          You haven’t noticed then that the tide of change is to move away from big unions, managed from remote locations by top down imposed control?

          You haven’t noticed that in the last few years DEVOLUTION happened in the UK. I guess that you didn’t realise that if the SNP hadn’t tried to have imposed a socialist agenda on Scottish withdrawal from the Union they would probably have won. I guess you haven’t heard about Catalonia or Basque region, Walloons or the 19 other European separatist movements?

          In a spirit of friendliness I’m going to explain this to you Andy and I want you to have a look around at whats actually happening.

          The advent of digital technology, social media and other global connection platforms has actually also sparked a new view of localism.

          The failure of so many of our institutions

          European Union
          Central Government
          NHS
          Rail Track
          Private Rail Companies
          BT
          Private Utility companies

          etc etc

          Is due entirely to the fact that they are centrally controlled, out of touch with the customer/citizen ( its called iceberg management) and no longer able to respond quickly to the changing society around them, in fact most of them dont even understand it

          New technology has enabled small local groups to be much more innovative and effective. Decisions made at the user end are more likely to be supported by the people involved.

          Thats why Andy there is a massive move to create small businesses , we have 4.9 million in the UK and the rate of start up is accelerating , thats why our unemployment has plummeted ( 4.1% now) because we have more small firms than ever hiring. Where the EU, central government and big institutions have failed , small innovative organisations have made a huge difference

          Localism is the future, small is beautiful economics and society as if people mattered

          No Andy the people aren’t ignorant, the people want more control over their day to day lives. The dont want to be controlled by Brussels , they dont want to be controlled by Westminster, they dont want to be controlled by the Dept Health or Dept of one size fits all education. The people have a platform to make their voices heard ( social media, blogs etc) and they are doing that loud and clear.

          The ignorant ones are the establishment who aren’t listening this trend started 30 years ago with Perestroika(restructuring) and “glasnost” (openness) in the breakup of the former Soviet Union, it is now gathering pace quickly

          You young Andy are on the wrong side of history

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

      Newmania, We have been assured on here by Hans, the self-appointed EU Spokesman on the N.I./Eire border, that the EU does not need a hard border. The UK has stated that it does not want a hard border. So the two sides are in agreement – no hard border. Next.

      • Newmania
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

        No the EU doesnot ‘want’ a hard border. On the other hand it does not think it can have no border with a third country .
        It doesnt with Norway or Switzerland who..are really quite clever people and would have fouind a magic trick if there was one .
        There is not

        • NickC
          Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

          Newmania, You say the EU “does not ‘want’ a hard border”, yet actually insists on a hard border as with Norway and Switzerland? You can’t even make your own mind up, still less agree with other Remains!

          Let me put it as simply as possible so that even a Remain can understand. If the EU really, actually doesn’t want a hard border (as Hans maintains) then there will be no hard border. If there is a hard border it will the EU’s doing.

        • libertarian
          Posted June 13, 2018 at 7:59 am | Permalink

          Newmania

          Exactly , its the EU’s problem , they dont know how to operate an effective border they say.

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

      Newmania, An RTA is in the interests of Germany, France, Eire, Netherlands, etc, but you are right – it is definitely not in the interests of the EU. In order to survive as a completely artificial political construct, the EU must steal sovereignty and rights from its members, which it returns to them, as it sees fit, for money and obedience.

      Our deluded Remain establishment, not having learned anything about the EU over the last 46 years, thinks the EU is just about trade. Actually the EU is solely about power: its own power. Giving us a trade deal that doesn’t involve us compromising our new-won independence just isn’t going to happen.

      I’ve been saying this since 2003 – it’s just so bleedin obvious.

      • Richard
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

        Our hosts final sentence. Paradoxically, the surest way to get an FTA (CETA+++) would be if the UK were to announce WTO terms will apply on 30 March 2019 …the Council would sideline the Commission if necessary…they go bust without our money. And French farmers can use both manure & tractors very effectively.

        David Bannerman also discussed this strategy to get CETA+++ yesterday: https://brexitcentral.com/dont-taken-brexit-models-peddled-backing-lords-amendments/

        And if no deal then we start spending that £12Bn; plus the £16Bn to HMT on EU imports could eg reduce VAT & NI.

    • Richard
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

      Newmania, This study by Professor Minford shows why No Deal is fine for the UK, but is bad for the EU. http://www.politeia.co.uk/the-economics-of-brexit-getting-the-best-deal-for-the-uk/
      CETA+++ is therefore more in their interest than ours.

  3. Lifelogic
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    A generation has been sold a university fraud says Charles Moore today in the Telegraph and he is exactly right.

    They have also been sold a duff expensive energy policy, pointless PV panels, very expensive and unreliable offshore wind farms, an NHS that can never work and the huge exaggeration of the climate alarmism religion. The establishment & BBC fortunately failed (but only just) to convince them of the benefits of the EU and their un-selective, open door, wage depressing immigration policy.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:27 am | Permalink

      He suggests taxpayers will be liable for £1.2 trillion of debt not repaid by students or 0ver 50% of current GDP by 2050. All this debt to pay for degrees, over half of which, have virtually no value or actually negative value to the economy (due to the lack of earnings for 3 years or more while students complete them and the skill they would have developed in the process)

      The state is forcing tax payers to subsidise worthless degrees, worthless renewables, worthless HS2, silly (with current technology) electric cars, the dire unworkable NHS, loads of second rate schools and endless other total stupidities. Then Hammond complains of poor productivity!

      • a-tracy
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

        If the public pay £1.2 trillion towards 50% of the university education through the inability of graduates to pay the full graduate tax back the public would be £1.2 trillion better off than we were before tuition fees were introduced?

        With no tuition fees, it follows that there would be £2.4 trillion debt doesn’t it? (mainly I’d add through ridiculous 6% interest rates, what was the interest rate we charge the Republic of Ireland, not even a member of the UK like the English students are, for their loan).

      • Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:04 am | Permalink

        Lifelogic,

        Three out of the first four posts today. This despite numerous claims of a clampdown on multiple contributions.

        How do you get away with it?

        • Mark B
          Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:39 am | Permalink

          And I made only one post. On topic and still in moderation.

          Indeed.

      • Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

        I’d sell my house and give the proceeds to charity to see the actual accounting between HM Treasury and the BOE you have in your mind for that.

        I can tell you right now what you have in your mind does not come close to the realities of using United Nations System of National Accounts, NIPA and national accounting logic.

        That’s because you think your business accounts are exactly like the Governments. Without recognising you are a user and not the issuer of the currency.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

          They were figures provided by the universiries Minister I think from the articlr. The one who keeps attacking Oxbridge entry system. .

      • Hope
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:39 am | Permalink

        All made worse by Willetts when he was minster for universities. Content to give free university education to our EU student competitors while studying in the UK but giving a life time of debt to English students. HE now suggests giving young people £10,000 each. He was made a Lord! Another graphic example of rewarding failure for idiotic ideas and idiotic performance.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

          Indeed CBE FOR project fear Carney too!

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:51 am | Permalink

        L/L On the subject of renewables I see today that Lord Deben is trying to persuade government to continue to pay subsidies for onshore wind in Wales and Scotland. Thanks for nothing pal. Scotland already has more wind farms than anywhere in the Uk thanks to the SNP who ride roughshod over the public’s views. We can get hundreds of objections to a planning application for massive wind farms and the council will object too but the SNP in most cases just ignore us. It might be fine for local towns to receive money as bribes from the developers but it does not address the fact that many of us live close to these monstrosities and it has ruined many a life. Lord Deben needs to do his homework when he says on shore wind is cheap. That must be why the power companies have actually admitted that it is the expense of renewables that is pushing up prices. He also doesn’t understand that the grid will not operate efficiently with too much wind and not at all with none!!

      • Mitchel
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:05 am | Permalink

        But education is said to be an impotant part of the economy!As I have said before we are consuming our national capital to give the appearance of growth-something that happened in the Soviet Union under Krushchev.The Blairite economy uses the publically funded service sector like the Soviets used heavy industry.

      • rose
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

        Many of these student loans which have not been back were and continue to be to EU students. This should be subtracted from the ransom.

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

      Lifelogic, How can our Millenials who are so intelligent (as Andy assures us) fall for all these scams so easily? Yes, I know that the BBC, the EU, and the establishment peddle this fakery all the time, but why are the young so gullible?

      The only likely explanation is that the young have had it far to easy, especially in their non-competitive education system. You can see that with many still pretending to be students at 35, leaving having a family until it’s too late, and not being prepared to defer their gratification to get a mortgage.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

        Indeed.

      • Ed Mahony
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:40 am | Permalink

        The young are being hit from all quarters:

        1) Hedonistic ideology (the lie that self-gratification will make you happy due to liberal media / everything happened in culture since the 1960’s)
        2) Left-wing ideology (that pushes the lie that hierarchy is necessarily evil etc, envy)
        3) Social liberal ideology (that pushes the lies of feminism, abortion and so on)
        3) Hard capitalist ideology (to be focused on money over family and everything else will make you really happy)

        Instead we need to focus our young on: patriotism, work ethic / hard work, the family, more arts and less entertainment, wit over banal social media interaction, and so on. That there is a spiritual dimension to life that makes life more interesting. That self-sacrifice for others is a good things. I really believe we need to return to the Christian world and values and vision of great British men and women such as (all strong believers): Jane Austen, Sir Isaac Newton, Samuel Johnson, the Quaker businessman, Shakespeare, Tolkien, Sir Christopher Wren, William Wilberforce, Maxwell, the Medieval Catholics who gave us Parliament, Monarchy, Magna Carta, Oxford, Cambridge, Grammar Schools, Beautiful Cathedrals and Churches, Eton, Winchester, Guilds, etc ..

  4. Nig l
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    They say these things because they think they can get away with it, presumably reflecting Back channel messages we have been giving them. Whatever reason it is an appaling indictment of our negotiations and political leadership.

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

      Nig1, Most new law emanates from the EU: power oozes from Brussels. Almost all the negotiations in Brussels are carried out by UK civil servants. They have grown used to the power they wield, shaping EU policy, without the nuisance of elected politicians bothering them. No wonder the civil service is institutionally Remain.

  5. oldtimer
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:28 am | Permalink

    All we know so far about the state of the negotiations, if they can graced with that description, is that only a bad deal is on offer. It appears that by accident or design the UK government is, or was, close to falling into a negotiated trap. It is essential that the government is fully prepared for a no deal outcome.

    • Ian wragg
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

      No deal is the only realistic option. There is no way we will accept free movement and continue paying into the EU budget.
      Three cheers for Salvini in Italy for closing the ports to migrant boats.
      The Bilderbergers must be choking on their bucks fizz.
      The fight back is well underway.

    • Timaction
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

      Mrs May, Mr Davis, Olly and his fellow negotiators have been appalling and weak. The whole Country knows this and are embarrassed by them. When are the legacies going to get a grip? The last two years have demonstrated how little respect Westminster and it’s cronies have for the English people. Thank goodness it hasn’t gone unnoticed out here in the real world!

      • Anonymous
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

        Brexit has shown them all right up.

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

      Oldtimer, You are right about the trap, but I doubt very much if we are even partly prepared for the WTO deal. Perhaps Theresa May can be convinced to produce the evidence, for I have seen none so far. Two years, and no substantive preparation. It is incompetence bordering on the criminal.

  6. alan jutson
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Agree John, but had Mrs May been much clearer in her mind at the outset, and clearer with the EU with our demands, then these talks would not have dragged on, and on as they have done so far.

    I never thought I would say this, but from a negotiation point of view, the EU have played a weak hand so far very well, whilst the UK has played a strong hand disastrously.

    Perhaps the time is beginning to arrive where all politicians, Government and opposition, start at last to understand that the EU still wants to retain total control over our Country, and no amount of talks will resolve the issue, other than our complete capitulation, or walking away.

    • alan jutson
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:12 am | Permalink

      In any negotiations you outline what you want at the start, you do not ask what can you give me.

      I would have thought Cameron’s recent failure and humiliation would have been a lesson learn’t, but it appears not, as even some of the same advisors are being recycled yet again.

      Do our Politicians never learn from past mistakes and stupidity ?

      • Hope
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

        Alan, your analysis is understandable but wrong.

        May has never wanted to leave and is intent on keeping the UK in the EU. May is using a long game based on false premises. Her hand is to use trade and Irish border to keep the UK tied under the control of the EU with hidden costs and policies. As above, read Dominic Lawson in the Mail today on what the Treasury is upon to. It, and Hammond, is deliberately undermining the will of the people by deliberate false reports.

        Leaving was never central to trade or the Irish border. Nor is the Irish border a UK problem only that May has made it. No one could break their word so publicly on so many occasions for it to be a coincidence or accident.

      • Adam
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:48 am | Permalink

        Stating what we want, & refusing less than best, is negotiation.

        Tolerating acceptance of worthless morsels, or offerings with unfit conditions attached is exclusive to Members Only.

        • stred
          Posted June 12, 2018 at 3:02 am | Permalink

          May is an EU Tory stooge.

    • Mitchel
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:12 am | Permalink

      “Without the political and strategic renewal,the break in gradualness spurred on by the April Theses-“Leaps,Leaps,Leaps”as Lenin noted in the margins of Hegel’s Science of Logic-the revolution would have been halted at it’s bourgeois democratic stage and then rapidly beaten back”(Kevin Corr-Lenin’s April Thesis & the Russian Revolution 5/4/2017).

      Sound familiar?Leaps,Leaps,Leaps,please!

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

      Alan Jutson, Absolutely right. I was prepared to give Mrs May time to prove herself, but by the Autumn of 2016 I expressed my concerns to my (then) Tory MP. To no avail: there was twaddle about “not disclosing our negotiating positions” (!) and a refusal to state that UK independence was non-negotiable. The government seemed unable (or unwilling) to understand how the EU had behaved for the last 44 (now 46) years.

    • acorn
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

      What makes you think the UK has ever been in a position to make “demands”, when it is voluntarily leaving the EU Club?

      The only weapon the UK has to offer is its €80 bn current account deficit with the EU. That UK import demand will still be there post Brexit, Deal or No Deal. If the UK’s middle classes lose access to them BMWs; Miele kitchen appliances; Italian floor tiles; it’s bye-bye to the Conservative Party vote.

      I worry about the Pound Sterling, it is likely to suffer a series of brexit drops. Will the BoE jack-up interest rates to recover the Pound’s import purchasing power? That would kill household variable interest rate borrowers. That also, would kill the low fixed interest rate lender Banks and Building Societies.

      The UK Treasury does not have a lot of foreign currency reserves to buy-up the Pound’s FX rate. We would be dependant on the Central Banks of the countries we import from, to buy our currency; up its value, so we can keep buying their imports.

      • Edward2
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

        You keep telling us that the UK can never run out of cash.
        But now you tell us they can.

        • acorn
          Posted June 13, 2018 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

          The UK runs out of other peoples cash, to buy its own cash, to keep within the peg limits. It’s not that difficult Edward.

          • libertarian
            Posted June 13, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

            acorn

            Nope thats not what you told us. You told us other people dont have cash, it all belongs to the government and you told us that the government can’t run out.

            I dont think you understand at all

  7. Mark B
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    When the PM slid off in the night to sign off Phase 1 it was done to show the world exactly who was boss – the EU. And no more need be said on that.

    The EU cannot discuss trade until the UK has left the EU. End of !

    Leaving the EU is about governance. I know I do rather bang on about it, but is. And this is important because it tells you why the EU is behaving the way it is. It does not care about trade, all it cares about is amassing power over others and becoming the nation state it so desperately wants to be. The UK leaving is a retrograde step. It is damaging the EU Project in the eyes of the world. As the Canadian Cheif negotiator said; “If the EU cannot sign a trade deal with Canada, the what is the point of the EU ?” This was significant as it challenged the very reason and existence of the EU in the eyes of the world.

    Knowing about those and their mindset does rather help when trying to understand the reasons why people do things the way they do.

    • Mark B
      Posted June 13, 2018 at 4:58 am | Permalink

      You really don’t like it when I tell the truth do you ? It must really be hard to take to be shown so wrong on your own website. Never mind.

  8. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    Nine more months?
    I think you’ll find that the EU demand that Mrs May signs their withdrawal agreement in October, which of course she will unless she is removed forthwith. It’s in your hands. Lose her now or lose your party forever.

    • Man of Kent
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink

      An extra hearty ‘hear, hear ‘.

      But will they get their letters in ?

      I doubt it so they will lose the party .

  9. Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    Unfortunately it is not UK voters that need to be persuaded of the merits of No Deal. Many of them are already so minded. It is politicians that are the problem.

    As I write this Radio 4 Today programme was discussing likely actions of Remain-minded Conservatives. The speaker was of the opinion that it was not a question of ‘if’ they rebel but ‘when’.

    I am not in a position to know how much truth there is in this. I would also expect those who were ‘in the know’ to keep their own counsel unless it could further an agenda that suited them.

    Interesting times – but also worrying ones.

  10. Roy Grainger
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    The EU is not negotiating against their own interests, they are calculating that May will cave in on all key issues leaving the UK effectively still in the EU – this is the best outcome for them. What evidence is there they are wrong ? If May brought forward a bill to remain in the CU for example it would pass easily in the Commons.

  11. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    It is quite obvious to a blind man that the EU are making things as difficult for us as they can knowing that freedom of movement is unacceptable to us. When is Mrs May going to get it? The EU are confident they will get what they want because so far Mrs May has capitulated over everything and made us look ridiculous. Having to bow and scrape to the French and Germans is truly the biggest humiliation ever. This once great nation is being reduced to a snivelling, tin pot, pit of despair and the Tory party together with the treacherous remainers are responsible. How can MPs like yourself John stand back and allow it to go on? Or are you sure May will suddenly do a Thatcher and grow some? Is a no deal on the cards after all? She would need call an election and spell out to the country just what was at stake because they have been brainwashed by the establishment and the media into thinking we’re doomed if we leave. I can’t see that happening as she is one of those. What on earth do other nations think when they hear we are willing to pay billions just to trade and be told what to do? What an embarrassment and what a disaster for the country.

  12. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Even if you were to allow free movement for a little longer, there are EU tools to restrict it for staying beyond three months, which strangely have never been used in the UK to my knowledge. (Article 7 in the rights of residence).
    Maybe a bit late now to apply tools that e.g. Belgium utilises, but strange that the UK did overlook them.

    • Peter Martin
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:45 am | Permalink

      I don’t believe we did overlook them. In the main, most people in the UK take the view that we should either allow people into the country, or we shouldn’t, depending on such factors as our economic need and the circumstances of the people concerned.

      Once anyone is allowed entry into the country then automatically become legal residents and are entitled, mostly, to the same rights as everyone else. The main exception is they have to wait to become citizens before they can vote. We don’t throw them out after a couple of months if they fail to find a job or have housing problems. Especially if they are doing their best to find something.

      If we allow in those who cannot easily cope with life in the UK then that’s probably our failing and our mistake.

    • rose
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

      These tools have never been used because they are considered not at all nice. You need an authoritarian government to implement them.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

        I’d sure as hell vote for an authoritarian government, provided it wasn’t just another con – all blather and BS to snow the hapless citizen into voting for them, then folding up like a lettuce leaf in the sun at the first political test of their mettle.

        The four main Westminster parties are the worst offenders. To see the dire need for strong decisive leadership, people should ignore the mainstream media and get onto YouTube more to find out what is REALLY going on in the UK. For the first time in my lifetime, I can foresee a massive backlash against the political system, if not an all-out civil war between different factions. And it isn’t Brexit that’s caused the rift, it is the constant betrayal of the people by the political elite.

        It is imperative we get rid of the liberal PC brigade that dominates Westminster, and replace them with something stronger that actually carries out the will of the people.

        Tad Davison

        Cambridge

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

      PvL, Neither TEU Art7 nor TFEU Art7 contain tools to restrict immigration. To which treaty (and which Article) are you referring?

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

        @NickC:
        DIRECTIVE 2004/58/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL (of 29 April 2004)
        Article 7, which is in chapter III states, that for people to stay beyond three months they must be workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State.
        This would provide against people over-staying their welcome and just misuse social security. It would have made the UK attracting fewer people, and could have prevented misuse of the social security and healthcare provisions.

  13. Helena
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    You campaigned to leave. You voted to leave. So would you please stop trying to blame others for how badly everything is turning out. You own this catastrophe, you promised that we hold all the cards, and it was never true

    Reply I am saying Let’s just leave! Then you will see we hold the cards.

    • Richard1
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:36 am | Permalink

      to be fair to JR the govt are very far from following his recommendations made both during the referendum & since.

      Good to see your man Corbyn bombing in the polls. Even with Theresa May the Tories should win next time!

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:40 am | Permalink

      You seem to have forgotten that if there is any catastrophe then it will be overseen not by any Leave supporter like JR but by somebody who campaigned to Remain, albeit in a lukewarm way, and who no doubt voted to Remain, who is heading a government with a substantial majority of Remain supporters and supposedly assisted by civil servants almost all of whom wanted us to Remain and some of whom are clearly still determined to wangle it so that we do Remain, or at least even if we formally Leave the EU we will still be subject to EU rule.

    • Andy
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

      Actually the truth is it is the Remainiacs who ‘own this catastrophe’. It might have escaped your notice but we have a Remainer as Prime Minister and as Chancellor, and Remainers dominate the Cabinet, Civil Service, House of Commons, House of Lords, the Judiciary etc, etc, etc. So in reality it is you and your ilk who have very effectively sabotaged Brexit in definance of 17+ million people.

    • Mark B
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply

      As my comment from this morning is still in moderation, so I can only concur with Helena.

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

      Helena, Remaining in the EU’s internal market (single market, customs union) is a Remain idea by Remain politicians, so that the UK remains entangled with, and controlled by, the EU. It is not Leave, and you know it. I suppose at last you now recognise that Remain policies are rubbish, even as you try to shift the blame.

    • Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

      Helena – so perhaps you could spend a little time convincing those Brexiteers among us here WHY, exactly, we should wish to remain shackled to your much revered EU. Don’t waste time speaking hypothetically about the referendum result.

      Spend a bit more time telling us about the grand and glorious future we have forfeited by voting ‘out’. Describe to us the huge benefits of staying a part of a bloc that is hell-bent on punishing us for daring to wish to leave it. Tell us what is so admirable about your EU masters that they should wish our country to suffer?

      To my mind, anyone who wishes THAT is my enemy.

  14. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    I see the EU have started talks with the Commonwealth before us. As Farage says, they’ve finally cottoned on to world trade just as we are leaving! We can’t start trade talks until 2019 and we can’t finalise anything until 2021. What nutcase thought this was a GOOD deal? We have been capitulating now for 2 years. Isn’t it time to start fighting for our future? We also have to endure Sturgeon saying she wants a special deal for Scotland as N Ireland might get one. Where will it all end? We need someone stronger at the helm.

  15. Leinster
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    You say you want free trade, but you refuse to accept free movement of people. I don’t think you even understand what the word free means

    • Jagman84
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      The former does not require the latter for non-EU nations. According to the EU, it must apply to the UK. After we leave, foreign nationals will still be able to work and travel to the UK. However, they will not have an automatic right, as current arrangements allow.

    • Woody
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:08 am | Permalink

      How is there a fixed connection between trade and movement ? It isn’t part of any other trade deal in the world.

    • Ian wragg
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:10 am | Permalink

      How many non EU countries have free movement written into FTA,s. None as far as I know.

    • Adam
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:05 am | Permalink

      Leinster:

      You are free to buy a bed from Furniture Village or anywhere else for your home.

      If you support free movement of people, keep a door ajar for any tired workers & their families who might freely accept your openness.

    • Peter Martin
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

      I don’t think any major party accepts the idea of free movement of people. I don’t know of any other country, anywhere in the world that has such a policy. The UK has a population of 65 million. The rest of the world has a population of 7.6 billion.

      If that’s what you want for the UK, then fine, go ahead and stand for election on that platform. I doubt if you’d get even close to saving your deposit.

    • libertarian
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

      Leinster

      Nope had a look at the real world , there are literally dozens of Free Trade Agreements in place and NOT ONE OF THEM involves free movement of people.

      You’re not very bright are you

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

        Arrogance

        • libertarian
          Posted June 13, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

          hans

          So thats another thing you believe , you think that free trade always involves free movement.

          Your consulting credibility is getting a bit thinner by the day.

          Oh and 3 times you’ve told me you aren’t going to comment anymore

          Seems you dont hold to your principals either. Not a good look

          Much love

    • mancunius
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

      No country accepts the free movement of people.

      If you sell me an armchair, that doesn’t give you the right to come into my house and sit in it.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

      Are you under the illusion that for me to buy goods from your country without tariffs and for you to buy goods from mine without tariffs, I have to accept that anyone in your country can come and live here and vice versa? Why would that be? What is the connection between free movement of goods (simple and logical) and free movement of people (logistically insane). What if we all moved to your country?

    • Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

      Free trade without free movement? Works in NAFTA. Worked in EFTA before the EU came along stuck their oar in.

      OK let’s call it ‘tariff free trade’ and ‘unregulated movement’ if it makes you feel better. We don’t need to be in the CU to have a free trade agreement. We don’t need to be in the EU to have a free trade agreement. We can sign one with anyone we like once we’re free of the (German led EU ed)…

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

      Leinster, Don’t be silly, free trade (ie trade without tariff and non-tariff barriers) is perfectly possible without uncontrolled migration. The EU has itself signed two recent deals with S.Korea and Canada which don’t involve “free movement of people”.

    • RayK
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

      Leinster..as I understand it it’s about the four basic freedom of the EU, freedom of movement, freedom of capital, trade services and people. But we have so many red lines in place ? All of this can only hapen under the umbrella of the EU when it comes to EU countries. Otherwise we still have the option to travel freely as tourists- for the moment

  16. Richard1
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    The Govt clearly has no intention of doing so. It would be more sensible simply to extend EU membership, as suggested by Jacob Rees-Mogg, rather than go into the three year (& by the time Mrs May and Mr Davis have done another round of ‘negotiation’, probably indefinite) transition + buffer period. They seem to have got the U.K. into a position potentially much worse than simply remaining in the EU – no benefits or savings from leaving, but no votes as to what happens. Dan Hannan is right, the sensible thing would have been to go for a Swiss-style EFTA agreement as a reasonable compromise. Is it too late to change tack and go for that?

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

      Switzerland is a member of the Schengen area, contributes in to the EU budget and has freedom of movement.

      Would those who voted to leave find agreeing to these acceptable?

    • Beecee
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:35 am | Permalink

      It seems to me that Mr Davis is now only a TV front man in these negotiations. Oliver Robbins, with his ‘team’, is doing all of the work, apparently often without Mr Davis’s knowledge or approval, but with the supportive ear of Mrs May.

      In Business Mr Davis could be considered as having been constructively dismissed!

  17. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    It is time for us to put a deadline on negotiations I feel.

    Free trade talks to begin or we stop talking.

    We will allow EU citizens who are working or supported by a spouse to stay with the same protections offered to UK citizens and we will not put a hard border on the island of Ireland.

    The EU may repatriate our ex – pats should it choose to and it can put up border posts in Eire.

    They are so determined to protect their political project so put the ball back in their court. We will become a third country, they deal with third countries so let’s get on with it.

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

      Narrow Shoulders: “Free trade talks to begin or we stop talking.” I wish . . .

      • Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

        Perhaps that should mean free ”trade talks”. We should NOT be paying simply to talk about trade.

        That is bribery.

  18. Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    The EU has had a death wish for the longest time and its suicidal policies have led directly to the domino fall of country after EU country into the hands of political extremes be they communist or fascist. Still it persists riding its idee fixees over the cliff dragging all before it. Will it even exist at all in 10 years time?

    It is only the weak pathetic national character of the Brits that gives any strength whatsoever to this Poetmkin village freak show.

  19. Stred
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    Apparently, Mr Hammond has been saying that collaboration is the best way forward, while in Germany. The collaborators in the Conservative Party are interviewing a prominent Leaver about him collaborating with the Russians and making all of us nationalist thickies vote to leave our beloved EU homeland and ignore friendly threats from Mr Obama.

  20. gregory martin
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    It is also time to let each individual member state (the 27) know that we will be able to agree on March 30th 2019, free , reciprocal, trade with each of them. The contracted currency to be the Pound Sterling £

  21. ChrisS
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    “By showing its resolve to do so it will give itself the only chance of actually securing a deal which might be worth considering”.

    The problem from the very beginning has been that Mrs May has no idea of the concept of words like “Resolve”, “Backbone”, or even what “negotiation” means.

    It started to go wrong when she stupidly agreed to the staging of the “negotiations” (which have been nothing of the sort), thus allowing the EU to refuse to discuss trade until the issues they wanted were agreed first. Especially the money which they were obviously so desperate to be agreed.

    Remainers that riddle the Establishment and the BBC are determined to prevent “No Deal” and I suspect they will do just that, thus making a firm stand all but impossible.

    We can’t forget that we are in this parlous position only because she lost Cameron’s majority through her absolutely catastrophical election campaign.

    I agree with you that if she showed some backbone and threatened to walk away they would come back to the table with a more sensible attitude but she won’t, or, maybe she can’t because, following her election disaster, she doesn’t have the numbers.

    PS Just hear that Wollaston woman on the Today programme.
    Remainers like her are just making the job even more difficult. Their arguments are disingenuous at best and no way respect the outcome of the referendum. Deselection should be the inevitable result of rebelling on Brexit.

  22. Michael
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    The problem is mainly due to the soft compromising approach taken by the UK government.

    Bureaucrats in Brussels are smiling content in the knowledge that the UK will do as it is told.

  23. VotedOut
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    This ‘negotiation’ is turning into a national embarrassment.

    It is becoming increasingly clear that a change in PM for someone with a more bullish approach is the only way to face down the EU – and the Treasury

  24. hans christian ivers
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    John,

    Interesting perspective, but not a particularly visionary one , so let us leave the negotiations to get on with it and get a better deal than your option of so-called “No Deal” which will not help anyone

    • libertarian
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

      hans

      Oh dear … It seems the EU itself thinks you are totally wrong… well theres a thing

      Along with his fellow European Ambassadors to the U.S., our own Sir Kim Darroch signed a joint open letter pointing out what fabulous trade there was between the EU and the U.S., and why President Trump was wrong to put it at risk with arbitrary tariff increases.
      ‘Together,’ said the ambassadors, ‘the U.S. and the EU have created the largest and wealthiest market in the world … Nearly one-third of the world’s trade in goods occurs between the EU and the United States alone.’

      It went on to reassure the American readers of the letter (published in the Washington Post last week): ‘The EU is the top destination for U.S. exports. This is a relationship, indeed a partnership, that other countries can only dream of.’
      Wonderful. And it’s all been achieved under the rules of the World Trade Organisation. Oh, wait … isn’t that exactly the system under which the UK would trade with the remaining members of the EU if our negotiations with Brussels collapsed without agreement?

      According to your heroes in the EU a “No Deal” agreement is something other countries can only dream of its so good.

      Really its about time EU apologists grew up and joined the real world

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

      Hans, There is no better deal for the UK than the WTO deal. Why? Because the EU won’t do a trade deal that doesn’t compromise our independence any more than the WTO does.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

        NIckC

        You always seem to know better so who am I to contradict you

        • NickC
          Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

          Hans, Indeed, who are you to contradict me? You don’t bother to cite references; you can’t say what the EU does for the UK that we are unable to do for ourselves; you think our Referendum should be ignored; you don’t believe we can be independent; and you yourself claim the EU doesn’t want a hard EU/UK border.

          When I state that the EU won’t give us a free trade deal unless our new won independence is compromised – which is stated EU policy – you make sarcastic remarks about my always seeming to know better. Perhaps that’s because you obviously know so little about the EU, and especially about the English.

  25. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Off topic: Foreign Direct Investment into the UK remained strong over 2017, so many investors expect a relatively soft Brexit for the time being.

    • Woody
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:10 am | Permalink

      Or, more likely, investors recognize that leaving the eurocracy will not be damaging to the economic health of the UK and hence we remain a good place to invest in.

    • Timaction
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

      Has turned. I will also add that I and many others are starting to boycott EU goods as a protest.

      • NickC
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:00 am | Permalink

        Timeaction, Agreed. I now avoid EU goods as much as possible. On food it is easy to get UK produce supplemented by fruit and vegetables from Morocco, Kenya, Senegal, even the USA and India. I don’t buy German tools either, not least because they are inferior to British or American. Cars are a bit more difficult but it is certainly easy to avoid the well known German makes which are over-hyped, over-priced, and frankly a bit tawdry.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

      Foreign Direct Investment into the UK remained strong over 2017, so many investors expect a relatively soft Brexit for the time being.

      Or, foreigners invest here because they want to access the UK market. Not rocket science to stick a factory here and one in the EU. Not everything is about the EU.

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

      PvL< There is no such thing as "hard" Brexit or "soft" Brexit, there is only Leave. Any agreement this government makes with the EU that compromises our independence any more than the WTO does will cause consequent political, economic and constitutional chaos. Such crises are not good for business.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:05 am | Permalink

        NickC

        You obviously know all about what the future looks like , can we have some more predictions, please

        • NickC
          Posted June 12, 2018 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

          Hans, So we, the people of the UK, vote Leave, get Remain, and your prediction is we will be perfectly happy about it? Get real.

  26. Know-Dice
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood, I guess you are going to be busy this week…

    Please make sure that May doesn’t give ANY concessions to the Remainer rebels – Soubry, Morgan et al…

  27. Stred
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Why don’t Way Forwards place an advert for the supply and fitting of cameras and computers at ports in order for the French and us to operate after a no deal. You could promise to show it to Mrs May and suggest that it would be a good idea to accept the lowest bid. Ah, but her Olly would tell her that it would be a huge waste of money on a project which will be dead in a years time and no doubt her neighbours will say the same.

  28. agricola
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    If the nation states of the EU are dumb enough to allow the cabal of Barnier et al in the EU to destroy their export trade with the UK, then so be it. They seem to be heading for a similar showdown with the USA who have a businessman in charge rather than the irresolute bunch of politicians we are lumbered with.

    The rest of the World and home manufacture offers cheaper alternatives to anything the EU sells us. Sugar at half the price for instance. We must make it clear to all EU nation states that in the face of EU intransigence we are aiming at trade under WTO rules from April 2019 with no further payments into the EU budget from then on. We should consider calling in any outstanding loans we may have made to the ECB and IMF in support of a failing EU banking system. We might even consider reinstating the reparations bill on Germany for the damage they caused to the UK during WW2, something over a trillion sterling in todays terms I believe.

    • agricola
      Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:00 am | Permalink

      It may have passed your notice , but I am on your side. So what is so controversial about the above. As an afterthought, we have talked on this subject for far too long, time to put a rocket up the backsides of our so called negotiating team. What is there to negotiate when the EU is so intransigent.

  29. Adam
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Free Movement of populations as a condition to trade is extreme. If the Swiss want to sell cuckoo clocks & import Chinese tea, should they allow 1.3 BILLION people the right to occupy their homeland?

    Previously, they did not only disallow foreign workers to take jobs in Switzerland, they required those already employed there to be reduced by 10%. Strong stuff, but the Swiss valued their identity & independence, & are admired for quality performance in all-round good sense.

    The EU is Cuckoo!

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      From the start the EEC/EC/EU/USE project has always been first and foremost a political, or more exactly a geopolitical, project, and that is why it has insisted on adding an inseparable politically driven fourth freedom, freedom of movement of persons, to the three which are genuinely economic in their purpose.

      This was openly recognised by various commentators after the referendum, it is a sign of how badly the UK has handled the negotiations that it is coming up again.

      • Adam
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:24 am | Permalink

        That fourth ‘freedom’ may be the one driving a wedge between member states, causing the EU to crack itself apart. Nations can then restore their freedom to be different.

  30. Gary C
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Morning John,

    Re: ‘By showing its resolve to do so it will give itself the only chance of actually securing a deal which might be worth considering.’

    Here’s a not so new news-flash,
    ‘The EU do not do deals they intimidate, bully, belittle and demand’

    We however roll over, give in and ask how high we have to jump and pay them to do so. (embarrassing isn’t it?)

    Just how many times has this got to be proven before we tell the EU their attitude makes it impossible to reach a deal? Time to say thanks but no deal, goodbye.

  31. Blue and Gold
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    ‘sensible British people’ voted to Remain in the EU.

    Sensible British people do not want a No Deal, unlike those of the elite who wish to leave the bloc.

    Sensible British people understand the situation regarding the seriousness of the Border of the Republic of Ireland with the North of Ireland. Mr. Redwood appears to be treating the Border issue as trivia. The EU, quite rightly, wishes to ensure that the Good Friday agreement is not jeopardised. This has priority over anything else.

    Sensible British people do not like Isolationism .

    Reply I agree with your last point – many of us Brexiteers want us more engaged with the wider world and back at the top tables in our own right!

    • Nig l
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      So I am a member of the elite, thank you for that complement but I am not, truly and apparently not sensible because my views differ from yours.

      What utter b***s

    • Andy
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:44 am | Permalink

      How many times is the EU mentioned in the Good Friday Agreement ??
      And what connection does the EU have with the Good Friday Agreement ???

    • libertarian
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

      Blue & Gold

      Hmm so your saying the EU and the 28 countries who make it up are against WTO deals… Odd seeing as they just told President Trump their “no deal” WTO trade deal with the USA is the greatest trade deal on earth

      Does sensible include people who understand what currently happens in real world trade? Or maybe you have a bizarre definition of sensible

    • mancunius
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

      Sensible British people voted to Leave the EU.

      Sensible British people are prepared for a No Deal, unlike those of the elite who wish to remain in the bloc.

      Sensible British people understand the situation of the Border of the Republic of Ireland with the North of Ireland, and have worked towards sensible solutions that the EU has treated as trivia. The EU, pretend it is interested in the Good Friday agreement, in which – if you read the GFA – it plays no part whatsoever but is now trying to weaponise.

      Sensible British people know that leaving the EU has nothing to o with a desire for isolationism, but on the contrary a reconnection with our traditions as an open-minded world trader and a member of a Commonwealth.

      • Blue and Gold
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

        This from the same person who said it was the EU who put VAT at 8 per cent on our utility bills , when in fact it was one of the many Tory stealth taxes . Labour reduced it to 5 per cent.

        Commonwealth…next you’ll be talking about the empire….still, little englanders…..

        • NickC
          Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

          B&G, VAT is an EU tax. The current Tory government domestic fuel VAT rate is 5%, the lowest it can be under EU rules (the 0% rate is a ratchet rate).

          A “Little Englander” was someone who was opposed to the British Empire. The Commonwealth is a far bigger trading area than the EU, doesn’t try to rule us, and contains more and better friends.

    • Blue and Gold
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

      Tosh Mr Redwood. Did you not realise we are currently in a bloc with 28 friendly trading nations?

      IF we leave the EU, we will be bowing and srcapping to Mr Trump, the Brexiteers pin-up boy.

      • NickC
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

        B&G, EU friends? Oh hahahaha . . . . .

    • NickC
      Posted June 12, 2018 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

      B&G, There is more to the world than being a vassal of the EU.

  32. Andy
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    On the contrary – the EU is very much standing up for its interests.

    Brexiteers, it turns out, want the benefits of the EU without any of the costs.

    Europe is, rightly, saying no.

    You know Brexit is going wrong because Brexiteers are already assigning blame.

    It’s not us they cry. It’s the EU. It’s Remoaners. It’s the Lords or the BBC or the Civil Service.

    Bless. Your vote. Your fault. Your blame.

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

      What costs would that be?

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:18 am | Permalink
    • Prigger
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:02 am | Permalink

      You remind me of that very brave and very dutiful Japanese soldier who stayed at his post twenty years after the war in the Pacific was over and Japan lost in World War II. A true warrior.
      Andy you are not him.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:32 am | Permalink

      The mistake was letting Remainers negotiate for us – turns out they aren’t as bright as they think they are.

    • Mockbeggar
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:36 am | Permalink

      What ‘benefits’ are those, pray?

    • Anonymous
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

      The bloody cheek of it. After every obstacle, interference and collusion (with the EU) by Remainers.

    • libertarian
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

      Andy wants to stop trading with the USA , Andy wants to stop trading with China , in fact Andy wants to stop trading with anyone who isn’t one of the 27 EU countries.

      Andy, sadly hasn’t a clue and can’t articulate what these so called EU benefits are even.

      Andy doesn’t know that trade happens between buyers and sellers and not countries

      Dont be like Andy.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

        Arrongance

        • NickC
          Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

          Hans, A wrong spelling gance??? Yes the EU is arrogant.

        • libertarian
          Posted June 13, 2018 at 8:08 am | Permalink

          hans

          Thought you weren’t commenting anymore?

          Glad to see you support Andy’s position on pensioners, the future of the UK being trashed and widespread strife and unemployment and his views on our inability to trade globally .

          Not a good look for a consultant really

    • NickC
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

      Andy, Your Remain policies (single market etc). Your fault. Your blame.

      Europe has not said no; the EU may have said no.

      There are no benefits of the EU that the EU hasn’t stolen from its members first. That must be so because the EU, being a pure invention, did not start with any rights or benefits at all.

      The EU exists solely to extend its own power, it has no other reason to exist. Consequently the EU will not give us a trade deal unless it can compromise our independence. Of course that’s what you and other extremist Remains want.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

        NIck C.

        You are gain concluding with no substantiating facts , it is getting rather tedious

    • Original Richard
      Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

      “Brexiteers, it turns out, want the benefits of the EU without any of the costs.”

      Sorry, but I don’t want either the “benefits” or the costs.

      Just to remind you of the “benefits” of EU membership :

      £10bn/year net (£15bn/year uncontrollable) membership fee and £80bn/year trading deficit.

      Unlimited, uncontrollable and unquantifiable immigration putting pressure on housing, schools, NHS, infrastructure, prisons etc.

      NHS obliged to treat everyone from the EU

      Unable to make our own trade deals which means that they are less suitable for our economy and inability to be able to represent ourselves at world meetings deciding upon trade rules and standards.

      Loss of control of our fishing grounds resulting in a very unfair distribution of fishing quotas.

      Loss of the ability to make many of our laws and unable to elect or remove those in the EU who do make these laws.

      And, had we voted to remain :

      Loss of our currency, military, taxation and foreign policy.

  33. graham1946
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    There are at least two good reasons why the EU want to delay Brexit:

    1) They keep getting money from us
    2) They hope the public will tire of the whole thing, think it is all too difficult and ultimately opt for the status quo, whilst not appreciating that the status quo is not on offer.

    To go back now would be more than humiliating, it would cost a lot more, would weaken us to the point of having to join all the EU lunacies like an army, the currency and to bail out the weak countries that Germany is tiring of. We would be in for an unending punishment beating and be a minor player.

    Please, Mrs. May, stop all the shilly shallying, you know you are not going to get any sense out of Brussels this way, so just announce we are leaving without a deal and see what happens. What’s to lose? They may offer the FTA in which case the transition etc will not be required and business carries on unhindered or we just leave and deal with the EU as with the rest of the world and start saving money right away, not just on the budget, but on Customs Duties as well.

    • RayK
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:53 am | Permalink

      Graham1946..brexit is not being delayed..march 29 2019 is the deadline..after that we’re out..the money that is owing is for promises and obligations agreed by us in the past..we are honour bound to settle this account..and lastly they don’t really care about the british public tiring of the whole tning..they only hope the british public will go away soon so that they can start their summer hols..

      Best thing to do now is just to leave..we made a mistake in voting to leave and have made a mess of the divorce negotiations but even so we diid not vote for a new deal..so we should pipe down now and leave

      • graham1946
        Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

        The 39 billion is twice what we owe and takes no account of what the EU owes us for the money in the bank, Galileo which they say they will chuck us out of and no doubt many more we don’t even know about.. Work it out – 10 billion net each year to end 2020 – 20 billion tops, less what they owe us or are you saying only obligations from us to the EU count and not the other way around? They never have cared about the UK but they do love our money or they’d just accept the price and let us out right away, so I think you are totally wrong about that. Lets just leave and give them 20 billion and that’s it. Fine by me.

      • NickC
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

        RayK, Brexit has been, and is being delayed. First there was a 9 month delay to invoke Art50. Then the Art50 is a maximum of 2 years (unless mutually agreed otherwise). Now we have interminable “transitions” where we don’t “transit” anything, but remain under the control of the EU.

        The amount we owe the EU consequent on our leaving is defined by the Vienna Convention; it is not a matter solely of “honour”. By definition the amount we owe cannot be more than what we would have payed if we remained in. The £39bn is about twice that. Worse the £39bn is nearer £80bn (less what the EU owes us) so is actually about 4 times what we should be paying.

        Voting to Leave is the best and most beautiful decision we have made for at least 60 years. Just think: we can be an independent country again rather than EU serfs. If only Mrs May would grasp the opportunity.

  34. Adam
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    9 months is enough to produce a child from a standing start. A trade deal is simpler.

    Tell the EU our terms. If they don’t want our business they can refuse, and lose.

    We can veto their nonsense, & our children can grow in freedom.

  35. Prigger
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    The EU is not negotiating genuinely. EU long-term interests as they see it, not as we see it, means lengthening our exit…and then offering a deal we will have to reject. It believes, with some justification, again how they see it, not as we see it, that No Deal is better than ANY Deal, for them.

    We should recall that Remoaners are their allies and both hope our people will be impoverished, become unemployed, and lose hope and so rejoin or never fully leave the EU.

    It is plain silly believing we will get a deal.

    The EU would fall apart rapidly if for no other reason due to a domino effect of other states signing Article 50.

    The EU is playing for time. We need to prepare better for No Deal

  36. acorn
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    It is worth having a read of Barnier’s June 8th press statement, particularly Part III. https://europa.eu/newsroom/highlights/special-coverage/brexit_en

    “In all the UK papers that we have been receiving until now – which I read carefully with my team – there has been a request to maintain the status quo, a form of continuity, which is paradoxical seeing as the country decided itself to leave the European Union.

    “The United Kingdom seems to want to maintain the benefits of the current relationship, while leaving the EU regulatory, supervision, and application framework. When we respond to UK leaders saying that these benefits are not accessible outside the EU system – because of their decision – some people in the UK try to blame us for the consequences of this.”

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

      He’s correct.We started negotiating from the wrong place.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:20 am | Permalink

      And some other people in the UK blame those in the UK who are trying to keep us under the thumb of the EU for as long as possible, preferably forever …

    • libertarian
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

      acorn

      The benefits of the EU are what exactly? Which benefits are the UK trying to retain? Lets take a look

      The 4 “benefits” of the EU

      1) Free movement of people …… Do we want this? …. No
      2) Free movement of goods in a customs union …. do we want this ? … No
      3) The free movement of capital … .. do we want this…. yes ( see note)
      4) The free movement of services… Its never existed to its irrelevant whether we want it or not

      On the free movement of capital Article 63 of the TFEU has extended free movement of capital to third countries , so its not a membership benefit any longer

      All we are asking for is a Free Trade Agreement , just like the FTA’s that the EU operates with a few other countries.

      Its not difficult and if the EU dont want a FTA with the UK thats fine. We can trade with EU under WTO rules just like the EU does with their biggest trading partner the USA

    • mancunius
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

      All that means is that Barnier confuses – or rather, pretends to confuse – a comprehensive Free Trade Agreement with the EU’s political, legal and fiscal framework.

  37. Old Albion
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    I fear the only way we’ll tell the EU what WE intend to do, will be via a new Prime Minister.

  38. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    The problem is that in government we are constantly told there are Remainers and Brexiters. Following the referendum, the triggering of Art 50 and both main parties election manifestos committing to leave the EU (including the SM and CU) there should be just people dedicated and committed to the government policy of leaving the EU. In exercising what other government policy does the PM frantically try and ‘balance’ the nubers of ministers for and against it? The whiff of betrayal gets stronger by the day. The consequences for our democracy in general and your party in particular are bleak if that betrayal is realised.

    • Timaction
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

      Indeed. It is the first time in 40 years the legacies can’t lie about the outcome on trade and sovereignty to the public as they have all been educated by the debate. We will be leaving the EU. Not half in or out, but out. It’s time the remainiacs got used to it as us Brexiteers had to suffer it’s rule and membership. It’s is time to restore our freedom and sovereignty without foreign interference!!! Trade should never be about movement of people or compliance of all its rules to trade elsewhere. Just those who trade with those ruled by the Franco German EU!

  39. alan jutson
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Interesting article by Dominic Lawson in today’s Daily Mail about Treasury forecasts.

    Also outlines the EU Ambassadors comments “The US and the EU have created the largest and wealthiest market in the World ,……… with nearly one third of the Worlds trade in goods”

    So happens it’s all under WTO rules. !!!!

    What more needs to be said !

  40. Alan
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    I think the EU will be prepared to negotiate a trade deal once we have left the EU. For now they are fully involved in negotiating the terms on which we are leaving (which is not the same as a trade deal).

    The Brexiters seem to me to make a consistent error in believing that it is more important for the EU to have an agreement than it is to us. It is true that the EU makes more money from us than we do from them, but it isn’t as important to them as it is to us. They have a bigger alternative market for their products on their doorsteps than we do.

    As for leaving with no deal – I thought the fallacies of that had been exposed long ago. I’m surprised people continue to advocate it. We must have a deal to allow our aircraft to fly, our ships to dock, our trucks to drive abroad, our passports to be accepted, customs declarations to be exchanged, and many other things besides. In my view no deal is not an option.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:36 am | Permalink

      Uh ? You’re saying currently aircraft from outside the EU aren’t allowed to land at Heathrow. And ships carrying Chinese imports aren’t allowed to dock. And we can’t travel anywhere outside EU because our passports won’t be accepted ? Odd I’d never heard that before now.

    • getahead
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

      Catastrophe eh Alan!
      I wonder how we managed before we were deceived into EU membership.

    • Jagman84
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

      I must say that your last paragraph rides a coach & horses through the myth that the EU intrudes very little in our lives. I believe that’s another big fat lie, perpetrated by the former Deputy PM.

    • mancunius
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

      No, we’re not paying the EU any money at all in return for a vague for ‘I think the EU will be prepared to…’

      And your pathetic doomsday scenario was exposed long ago. All that’s needed is to declare an end to the talks, and put basic MRAs in place for WTO trading on 30 March 2019.

    • NickC
      Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      Alan, I can see why you are confused. Some Brexiteers are not very clear what they mean by “No deal”. They actually mean “No trade deal beyond WTO rules”. That is why I consistently use the term “WTO deal”.

      As for aircraft flying, that has been dealt with innumerable times before. Look up Air Services Agreements and the Chicago Convention. ASAs are separate to pure trade, and they are mutual. EU aircraft must fly to, and over, the UK; as ours must fly to the EU. Unless you are suggesting total commercial war?

      There are a number of other non-trade agreements we must make with the EU. Agreed the EU can be, and often is, spiteful. But there are international agreements for these and the EU must abide by them, as we must too, making it difficult for the EU to call the shots.

  41. David Price
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    It does appear that the EU is not interested in negotiating. Unless the EU exacts a punitive cost on the UK then it cannot maintain the position that the UK is a small, unimportant country off Europe. It is in the EUs interest to damage us, our economy and our interests.

    In that vein can we expect the UK Competition and Markets Authority to block the proposed merger of Npower and SSE on the basis the EU cartel would hold too high a proportion of our strategic energy industries?

  42. nhsgp
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Walk away.

    Put in place in full the EU rule that EU migrants have no recourse to public funds.

    No welfare.

    3K a year for the NHS

    2.5K a year for public goods.

    7.5 K a year for schooling

    No housing benefit

    No tax credits.

    ….

    Public funds are other tax payer’s money.

    Start with the no welfare.

    Remember what Remain said. EU migrants are net contributors.

    Call the bluff. Put in place a law that says they have to be.

    After all, its an EU rule.

  43. Paul Cohen
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    Good and clear post JR – needs a wider distribution though.

    Article 218/3 states that the EU and outgoing state “negotiate and conclude arrangements to leave the EU”, this requires both sides to have meaningful talks, not the one sided stonewalling we witness time after time! This strategy is insulting to us and is damaging to whatever trust we have left with the EU.

    In my opinion we ought make a formal complaint as to the way Barnier has been instructed to de-rail any progress.

    Let’s hope this week’s cabinet meeting produces a more positive agreement as to our response and with some bite.

  44. BOF
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    The EU is not talking to to British electorate, but instead to the appalling band of remainers in Pailiament, the Lords and especially in the civil service. The civil servants do not care one jot for the electorate (the people who pay their wages). The remainers at Westminster do not care about the wishes of the electorate until election time.

    I read that Mrs May is now threatening them with Corbyn to get the Withdrawal Bill through. She will no doubt try that again with the electorate. That did not work last time so is even less likely to work next time if her very bad deal eventually goes through.

  45. KeithL
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Let me try to understand – we voted to leave, but now that we are leaving you want another deal- another type of deal- a bit like cherry picking so that we can have our cake and eat it.

    Out is Out and we should get used to it because without adherence to the four basic freedoms of the EU we will remain an outside third party to them- how many times have you been told

    You say- a free trade deal is more in their interests than ours- just where do you get all of this nonsense from- the EU, to which we have belonged for the past forty years, is first of all a political based, rules organised trading bloc- we are not going to be allowed upset that with simplistic Trump style one on one dealing. First of all it’ll be a Canada plus plus type deal if we’re lucky and that will be worked on over the years, over the decades-

    Jeez..we are about to leave and now we have these cribbers who bemoan our situation and want to go back in again- but all on our own terms- sorry but it’s not going to fly

  46. JoolsB
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    John,
    It isn’t just the EU using delaying tactics and using the Irish border as an excuse, it is the remainers also, one of whom is May. She is utterly useless and despite all the tough talk at the beginning is making us look weak and pathetic and a laughing stock. Her capitulation to the EU knows no bounds, even on her own red lines. I now fear we will never get the Brexit we voted for.
    Please urge your colleagues to show some backbone and put the will of the people before the party and get rid of her now without delay. How could you ever support a Remainer as PM in the first place is a mystery. She needs replacing by a tough talking Brexiteer, Johnson or JRM, who will not be pushed around by the EU, will stick to the red lines and will certainly not hand over £39 billion of our money.
    It looks as though no deal is now the best option and then we don’t need to hand over a penny but unless you replace May, that ain’t gonna happen and we will stay chained to the EU in some way for years to come. The British public will never forgive such a betrayal!

  47. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    I understand Mrs May will be addressing the 1922 Committee this evening. She will demand loyalty using the threat of a Corbyn government. If this keeps those EU fanatics, other than Clarke, on side for this week’s votes don’t be jubilant. She will use same threat against you when time suits her. You, better than most, will remember Maastricht tactics of Major.

  48. Norman
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Nice clear statement, John. I hope those in the driving seat understand the electoral implications. Keep up the good work.

  49. margaret
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Still a free trade deal means that we have a moral victory which means power just as money does. It is more about gesturing to see who can keep the Power; the EU or the UK.

    • margaret
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:38 am | Permalink

      or posturing if they don’t only want to stick 2 up.

  50. Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Boris is right in his “leaked” comments.
    Look at Trump dealing with the EU contingent at the G7 meeting. He’s not going to be pushed around by the EU, especially as there were two EU representatives plus the German, French and Italian prime ministers. He can see a stitch up, but our present leaders can’t.

  51. Fish Knife
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    The alternative to putting the EU into the position of “having to address the issue of how to apply levies and inspect goods for compliance and ROO” entering EU territory down the main artery, Irish A1>N1>M1, is to send goods to Warrenpoint Port, end of A2, and RORO to Dublin, goods coming the other way to be left alone, plus airfreight from Aldergrove to Dublin.
    The EU faffing about with ‘local’ minor transactions would really hack the Irish, on both sides, off.
    We really don’t need a hair on the end of the dogs tail wagging us.
    If ignored this problem will evaporate when negotiations really start on the 59th minute of the 23 hour.

    • NickC
      Posted June 12, 2018 at 9:47 am | Permalink

      Fish Knife, that sounds good to me.

  52. Edwardm
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    We need yourself or JRM or DT to lead our negotiations and preparations to leave.

    The EU misses no opportunity to be unfriendly and to deploy obstacles against us, yet wants us to keep paying big money for that treatment!
    We can look after our own respective sides of the NI border – their side is not our problem.
    And our waters are our own.
    No deal is the only option. The EU helpfully keeps making it obvious.

    I find it disturbing and inexplicable that so many parliamentarians wish to choose to side with un-friends rather than our friends around the world.

    We need to deal with the US as a sovereign nation – not be the fall-guys for EU protectionism.

  53. Qubus
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    I voted to leave the EU but, probably like many others, I am getting absolutely fed-up of reading and hearing about Brexit. I am ashamed of the behaviour of our goverment, they have shown absolutely no backbone and I find it humiliating how Barnier is running rings around us: we are still a great nation, certainly when compared with France and the minnows that comprise the other 25; only Germany can compare with us. Unfortunately, the remaining 27 seem to have forgotten how we rescued them and thereby impoverished ourselves 1939-45.

    I think that many people would be happy to leave the EU with a hard Brexit. What bothers us is not what the situation would look like in, say, five years’ time; the question is what would happen on day one, after we had left.

  54. Jacey
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    I am puzzled that many people see the European Union as the wave of the future. Vince Cable implied this in a recent speech when he characterised Leave voters as elderly, badly educated and befuddled and wanting to return to the past.. My view is that the E.U. is the past. This political construct appears to be failing badly, opposition to it in Britain, in Italy, in Hungary, in Austria and elsewhere is growing rapidly. The currency it has introduced ; the euro is highly suspect. As Mr. Barnier is fond of saying ; ” A clock is ticking “.

    • mike fowle
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

      Jacey, well quite. The structure of the EU was devised in the 1950s and hasn’t changed materially. It harks back to a time pre internet, pre containerisation, pre GATT (later WTO) and to the days of power blocs like the Soviet Union.

  55. Remington Norman
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Many of us are tired of reading the same old stuff from both Remainers and Leavers. The matter is clear beyond peradventure: we voted leave on the explicit understanding that this entailed leaving both the single market and the customs union. We need MPs with the guts to stand by this commitment and force the PM to deliver. What we do not need is more vacuous verbiage.

  56. RayK
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Why are we giving them generous proposals..we voted to leave and that’s all..we did not vote for another deal so what are you on about? Brexit means brexit..and nothing more

  57. The Russians Did It
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Sounds like we need a new Prime Minister then, one that believes in the UK outside of the EU.

  58. Roy Grainger
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Just off topic how amusing to see EU leaders whining about Trump’s steel tariffs when the EU themselves impose massive tariffs on some imports from USA and elsewhere. The EU imposes 10% tariff on car imports from USA but the USA only imposes 2.5% in reverse – no wonder Trump doesn’t like it.

  59. MPC
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Anyone such as myself who has had to work with the European Commission, or who has read Yanis Varoufakis, knew the EC would be completely intransigent.

    Not so long ago you were saying ‘once all the huffing and puffing’ is over then the EU would want a free trade deal. It’s hard to see that happening now especially as we appear not to have prepared for WTO.

    The arrangements the government is moving to satisfy no one outside Westminster, neither Leave or Remain people.

    It’s all coming back to me now. The choices on the referendum voting form were a) Remain or b) Leave (vassal statehood/Deep and Special Partnership). That’s why the turnout was so high and so many people were enthused into taking an active part in their first ever political campaign.

  60. Denis Cooper
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    I think we have to be realistic here.

    At present the UK trusts that all goods coming in from the EU will satisfy EU standards, and so we can just allow them to flow in through our ports like Dover, and also across the land border with the Irish Republic, without let or hindrance.

    But on the stroke of 11 pm GMT March 29th 2019 that will all suddenly change.

    At one second before that hour everything will be fine, just as now, but at one second after maybe those goods coming in from the EU will no longer comply with EU standards, even if they are still coming from the same EU suppliers in the same EU countries still subject to the same EU laws.

    So to avert the serious risk that EU suppliers will immediately start breaking EU laws and start exporting rubbish to their good customers in the UK our customs officers will have to start stopping and inspecting every incoming consignment – yes, each and every one – just to make sure that the goods being sent across are still as good, and still as approved under EU law, as before that dreadful hour of doom, 11 pm, sounded …

    And especially with the Irish border: we can just let everything across unchecked at the moment, but once we have left the EU the Irish authorities might start to break EU law and allow all kinds of illegal rubbish to be sent across and so we will have to intercept and inspect it all, of course we will …

    There is obviously only one way to avoid this and maintain frictionless trade, and that is to allow the EU to continue to rule us even after we have formally left; surely we can all agree with Olly Robbins that this is the only realistic solution?

  61. getahead
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Hammond works for the EU. We will not leave the EU while he and his puppet remain in the cabinet.

  62. ian
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    What happened to join the euro after 2020 if your in SM or CU also to include integrated armed forces and intelligence services, I do not hear a lot about these things from remain bankers, businesses and politicians, all I hear from them is we will have our own CU with the EU, I have not heard anything like that from the EU, all I hear is, no cherry picking, who going to negotiate this because DD won’t, have remain already made a deal with the EU behind closed doors. this was the reason remain, bankers, businesses and politician called for the ref in the first place.

    How can remain be so confident that they have all the answers and vote down things in parliament not knowing whether that the right thing to do or not, surely you have the negotiation first and then the bust-up in parliament, I have not heard of anyone cutting their throat before they start negotiations?

    I always said that you leave first and then you start negotiations from a neutral position, how, remain thing they will get the concession they want from the EU with their hands tied behind their back I do not know, remain should be made to come forward with their plans before this goes any further, the option of leaving now and carrying on negotiation is the best option for leave and remain.

  63. ian
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    I keep hearing things like, we will have a Norway deal or this deal, you have to remember that you are the fifth biggest economy in the world and these deal were set up by EU because they are small countries not the fifth biggest in the world, If I was the EU I would not expect any of these sorts of deals for the fifth biggest economy in the world and nor should they and they have given ant indication that they will.

  64. ian
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    As far as I know, the only deal the EU has alluded to is a Canada deal.

  65. nigel seymour
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    So, 12th and 13th are upon us – lets hope the Conservatives do indeed carry out their duty…..we fight remainers, remoaners, EU and those that wish we have no sovereign rule over MY country and MY grandfathers who fought the Great War and the Second…

    Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
    Or close the wall up with our English dead.
    In peace there’s nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
    Disguise fair nature with hard-favour’d rage;
    Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
    Let pry through the portage of the head
    Like the brass cannon; let the brow o’erwhelm it
    As fearfully as doth a galled rock
    O’erhang and jutty his confounded base,
    Swill’d with the wild and wasteful ocean.
    Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
    Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
    To his full height. On, on, you noblest English.
    Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
    Fathers that, like so many Alexanders,
    Have in these parts from morn till even fought
    And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:
    Dishonour not your mothers; now attest
    That those whom you call’d fathers did beget you.
    Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
    And teach them how to war. And you, good yeoman,
    Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
    The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
    That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
    For there is none of you so mean and base,
    That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
    I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
    Straining upon the start. The game’s afoot:
    Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
    Cry ‘God for Harry, England, and Saint George!’

  66. Helen Smith
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    Even Labour accepts that we voted to end free movement of people so yes, this will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

  67. Toffeeboy
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    What happened. I thought they were going to be desperate to continue selling us their Prosecco and BMWs? Seems like you’ve sold your followers a pup.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

      Toffee boy. I’ve found some great sparkling British wines online today. Indeed, I’ve sampled some too. The new BMW X2 that’s just come out isn’t a patch on the Land Rover or Range Rover. We can manage without German and French produce thank you.

    • graham1946
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      The boss opf Audi last week says he wants to sell his cars to the UK and needs a free trade deal. Others will follow once they accept the EU is leading them over a cliff.

  68. VotedOut
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    EU referendum = June 2016

    UK leaving EU ~ 2021 (possibly longer !)

    Fact: Leaving the EU then is 2.7 times longer than the pregnancy time for an elephant.

    It may be that the elephant would have had more fun…

  69. Andy
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Jaguar Land Rover – moving production from the UK, which is leaving the single market, to Slovakia, which is not.

    How many Tory Brexiteers will be going to Solihull to explain to (former) workers why their jobs are going?

    I bet none.

    #notBrexit
    #nothingtoseehere
    #honest

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

      NMW in Slovakia less than half what it is here. Housing costs less than a third.
      Forget Brexit, why would Tata want to continue manufacturing here when they can slash their costs in Slovakia?

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

      Andy, Range Rover is investing in Solihull and the new Range Rover Evoque is to be built at Halewood. Perhaps if Give and the climate alarmists hadn’t put doubt into the diesel car market then the said company wouldn’t have lost so much money. Up until government interference Land Rover was a very successful company employing thousands and making a lot of money for the UK

    • graham1946
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

      As usual you make no sense. Concentrate of how you are going to tell your 30 workers you are closing down and that it will not bother you because you are so rich.

    • libertarian
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      Either you are very very dim, disingenuous or manipulative.

      JLR is moving production of the Discovery to its existing factory in Slovakia to MAKE WAY for its NEW GENERATION MODELS production line in Solihull . The 9,000 full time workers at the Solihull plant are UNAFFECTED buy this move.

      JLR has also announced that its new electric vehicle will also be built at the Solihull plant

      JLR management said this decisions were strategic and in no way linked to Brexit as the models being produced are for the non EU market !!

      No wonder you voted remain

    • mancunius
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

      It affects only the Discovery’ model.
      “Jaguar Land Rover says this is merely clearing space at Solihull to produce a new range of hybrid and electric powered Range Rovers – cars of the future. In time more workers will be added as production ramps up.
      The company described the decision as part of their long-term strategic planning.
      Company insiders say Brexit was not a factor – and added that most of the new Range Rovers built in Solihull will be exported to non-EU countries anyway.”

      Jaguar stated it ‘remains committed to the UK” – the decision may affect “a small number of agency workers”, not the 10,000 strong p-ermanent factory workers.

      I really wonder about your literacy and IQ, Andy. I can only assume your vaunted wealth all came from mummy. Even daddy would have demanded a bit more effort from you in return.

    • Edward2
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

      That is a business decision because Eastern Europe is a fast increasing market for JLR.
      Bit like when Ford opened a plant in Turkey
      And VW opened in Mexico
      And BMW opened in America.
      All due to Brexit. ..obviously.

      • Edward2
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:11 am | Permalink

        Oh and this plant in Slovakia was planned in 2015 and it will make room at the main Solihull plant for several new models.
        JLR are investing hundreds of millions in the UK and have plans for big increases in sales.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

      Andy, as JR has noted previously, the Govt has attacked diesels and upped VED and this has impacted JLR significantly. Slightly or wrongly this is the result.

    • Sir Joes Soap
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

      The old models are going to Slovakia, and electric cars made in the same space.
      Agency workers only will be released, and new permanent employees taken on to build electric.

      Get your facts right.

    • Jagman84
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

      They are extra jobs created by the introduction of the E Pace. It is being built in Slovakia by a partner company. A similar arrangement is in place for China,Brazil, etc. It allows rapid expansion while the EU and UK governments attempt to destroy their home markets on the back of the VW group scandal. Only short contract temps have been laid off and are likely to be re-employed when sanity returns. It is how variation in demand is managed.
      As per usual, ‘Andy’, you haven’t got a clue!
      #

    • NickC
      Posted June 12, 2018 at 10:27 am | Permalink

      Andy, I thought you would be too embarrassed to comment here after your car-crash claim that the EU only costs income tax payers £1 per week?

      You make a similar uninformed and gullible mistake with your comment about JLR “moving production from the UK, which is leaving the single market, to Slovakia, which is not”.

      JLR is part of India based Tata. Multi-nationals, like Tata, make decisions to suit themselves, not the host nation. Just like the EU does to us. Which is why, contrary to you, I prefer an independent UK with its own businesses – a more nation-based approach.

      Then again if you actually bother to read properly (not your forte, admittedly) you will see that the job losses (of contractors) results from a downturn in sales (which JR has explained on here), not the move of Discovery to Slovakia. You see, that move is to provide space for production of JLR’s new electric versions of their SUVs.

      More clangers from Andy, then.

  70. Mike Wilson
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    When is YOUR government, Mr. Redwood, going to start sticking up for the UK in these negotiations. We are acting like a whipped dog. Why? Once every few months May seems to wake up and talks tough – then it is back to capitulation and subservience. It is completely clear the EU do not want a deal. They want us to suffer so others don’t think about leaving. Fair enough. Let’s just leave and get on with it.

  71. fedupsoutherner
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Off topic. On the news they are reporting that some care homes might have to send people home or not take in new residents because of a shortage of money paid by the local council for those who don’t have their own homes. Some of these old people have lived through and fought in world wars. What the hell are our government and indeed other parties thinking about when we send out billions in foreign aid? Are we losing the plot? I just cannot comprehend how we can neglect our elderly but send out money to tin pot and often corrupt governments for others first. For goodness sake get some morals.

    • Timaction
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

      Ask Cameron/May and the Tory party who still say there will be no change in Foreign Aid, 0.7% GDP policy. More money now goes to the Foreign Aid budget than the entire policing budget for England and Wales. Governments FIRST duty is to protect the public, unless it’s the legacies in charge! We will all remember when we see the next attack on English soil!

    • alan jutson
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

      Fedupsoutherner

      Agreed, madness.

  72. Woody
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    I am constantly astonished at the bigotry of the remain argument that goes along the line that free trade must mean free movement. I know of no other trade deal that links trade with access to public services and all citizen rights.

  73. mañana country
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Spain is taking in the 600 rejected by Italy and Malta. When Spain turns to Mrs May and asks we take our fair share tell her to shake her head and say ” mañana”. If that doesn’t work, just shout loud enough and they’ll understand.

    • Andy
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

      Good for Spain. 600 people – many of them children – who were dying in the Med.

      I am sure, if roles were reversed, literally none of them would show you the lack of humanity that you show them.

      And don’t worry. Literally none of them want to come to whatever migrant free part of the country you live in.

      They’ve already shown they are better than that by risking their lives to try to create a better life for themselves. Good for them.

      • mañana country
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

        ” none of them want to come to whatever migrant free part of the country you live in.” I hope and pray not.

    • stred
      Posted June 12, 2018 at 3:23 am | Permalink

      They will just give them EU passports, just like all the rest which Spain exported. They are Spanish: what do you expect.

  74. Caterpillar
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    ‘showing’ will achieve nothing. It is abundantly clear that the UK is finding a way to ignore the referendum result. This is what EU countries do when votes go the other way, the UK is showing itself to be an EU member. Two years have passed since the country voted to leave, it is still in, still paying, intending to be in a CU, intending to accept freedom of movement, intending to leave fishing waters occupied. If MPs had listened to the vote, the Govt would have delivered by now and the opposition would be holding them to account.Whilst I admire JR’s continued efforts and logic, the reality is Brexit mean Bremain.

  75. Student
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    I also think that, in addition to the government planning for a no deal scenario, Brexit MPs such as yourself should be preparing for a scenario where the government keeps us in the single market, customs union etc but without EU membership (a deal clearly worse than what we currently have).

    If this happens, there needs to be some clever politics to oust remainers from government and for Brexit MPs like Dr. Redwood and JRM to scrap the awful deal and just leave. At this point, if the EU want to return to the table then fine, if not we must persevere with Brexit.

    • Andy
      Posted June 11, 2018 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

      The public rejected hard Brexit in the 2017 general election. The will of the people is an awkward thing. Sorry.

      • Paul H
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

        That is a lie. In truth the election stopped being about Brexit. But parties offering a soft Brexit garnered all of 15% of the votes.

      • Edward2
        Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

        I didn’t see that option on my ballot paper.
        I did notice both parties manifestos promising to honour the result of the referendum and leave the EU.

  76. Drachma
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    The EU only pretends to be negotiating..it is an old tactic taken from old british empire times that seems to be still working..just winding down the clock.

    There’s a big problem now at the Irish passport office with delays to the issuing of the documents but when we enquired further it seems the huge rush from british national residents to get their Irish and EU passports before brexit kicks in is causing a huge backlog to build up..😂😃😄

  77. DUNCAN
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    1922-Cttee – another spineless performance from our party’s MPs.

    Stop pandering to May and the DUP. Have some backbone, depose this unprincipled, dreadful politician and let’s have a leader who will commit to leading the UK out of the autocratic EU

    It defies belief that our nation’s future is being held to ransom by 10 NI MP and the vacuous May

    When will my party realise that we could dispense with May, install a Eurosceptic leader and appeal to all Leave voters..we’ll walk the next GE

  78. The Prangwizard
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    All these expressions of hope and simplistic comments that all we need to do is walk away are pointless and naive. May has already sold out to the EU and the demands of the remainers, after all such actions are in line with her wish and desire that we continue to be attached.

    She has deceived many and lied all along and anyone who has gone along with her deceits for the sake of the party should also pay the penalty. Brexit means Brexit, No Deal is better than is Bad Deal are just her lying to the people. She will not withdraw the concessions she has deliberately and wrecklessly made.

    She must be removed from office urgently. I now hate and despise the Tory party for its duplicity and whilst I will not vote for Labour I will not vote for the Conservatives at least until it has been purged of the weak, the anti-democrats and the self serving.

    I really hope for a new party to emerge.

  79. Monty
    Posted June 11, 2018 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    The demands for the retention of free movement are quite telling, especially when viewed in the context of Merkel’s machinations to offload her million man march of refugees. They were originally granted subsidiary refugee status, on the basis that they could return to Syria should the situation there be resolved and a safe regime established. But Assad is going nowhere. Those refugees already have restricted right of family re-unification, covering their spouses, children, and parents only. A survey of one locality (Cottbus I think) came up with a factor of nearly ten dependants per refugee, so let us say an average expectation across the entire refugee population of five new arrivals each. That million becomes six million. And they are still coming.
    Merkel is trying various ploys to offload these folk. One is her demand for burden sharing across the EU, which has been turned down. Another is her proposal for the EU to take over responsibility for all external EU borders, so the nation states would lose the right to keep people out. More importantly, she would have had some reasonable expectation that the ‘pull factor’ of more generous welfare states would solve her problems for her, as once established and documented, the families would deport themselves to Sweden, or the UK. The Swedes are beginning to react against any further immigration, and the British public have voted to leave and regain our sovereignty. So now there is talk of some other offshore territory that Mutti can fill up with unwanted refugee families. No volunteers so far.
    We need to get out of this ship of fools, now.

  80. Tabulazero
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 5:56 am | Permalink

    Dear Brexiters,

    The EU’s interest is to make Brexit appear as the complete mess that it is and it is working magnificently, thank you very much.

    Do not despair. You will get your Brexit in the end.

    It will however be one chosen and given to you by the EU and tailored to its needs.

    C’est la vie…

  81. hans christian ivers
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    John

    Interesting on BBC 4 this morning.

    (David Davis “No Deal ” is not an option, the EU would really like a deal as well”).

    Can we now please stop the talk of “No Deal”

    thank you

    • NickC
      Posted June 12, 2018 at 10:33 am | Permalink

      Hans, And that is not Remain self-serving in what way?

      The only deal on the table is the WTO deal. We use that currently for the bulk of our exports (to the rest of the world). If it good enough for us to use trading with the USA (our biggest national trade partner) it’s good enough to use with the EU.

      And the WTO deal has the overwhelming advantage that it means the EU cannot control us. Which you want the EU to continue to do. But we don’t.

    • Simon Coleman
      Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

      Mr Redwood is an economist but, somehow, the penny doesn’t drop.

  82. Ron Olden
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Open email to Mr Philip Lee MP who has resigned from the Government because it’s implementing Brexit.

    Dear Mr Lee

    This is disgusting and treacherous thing to do.

    You say that:-

    ‘Sometimes the government has to act to protect citizens from the decision of the majority’.

    That’s a pretty (authritarian ed)view to take in itself. But it does at least have some political coherence. Perhaps democracy isn’t a good idea after all.

    But coming from you it’s deplorable.

    You voted to hold the Referendum in the first place. Without the likes of you, there would have been no Referendum.

    You also voted to invoke Article 50, and then went on to stand and get elected on the 2017 Conservative Party manifesto promising to Leave. And you voted for all the provisions of the Brexit Bill, first time round and against all the proposed amendments.

    At no point in these proceedings did you tell us that Leaving was conditional upon getting a ‘deal’ that suited you. No sensible person would have voted Leave had you said so.

    You expose the UK to permanent impotence and ridicule when you invite us to vote Leave, then yourself vote to invoke Article 50, and then at this late stage that we won’t Leave after all unless the EU gives us a ‘deal’ that suits you.

    If you didn’t think this was a suitable thing to be decided in Referendum you shouldn’t have voted to hold it it in the first place, and vote to go this far in giving effect to the Leave decision.

    The reason we are Leaving the EU is because of the likes of you. One can have some respect for people like Ken Clarke who have voted against it all along and for the Leave camp who believe in Brexit.

    But you voted to hold the Referendum and lost it. Some of us didn’t want a Referendum in the first place.

    And you are now undermining our chances of getting any deal at all.

    If the EU think that they can rely on people like you to undermine the UK’s attempts to get what we can out of the decision you yourself enabled us to take, and have voted for in Parliament since, why would they offer us anything?

  83. Paul H
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Too late. Your lot have screwed the UK’s negotiating position and will (and should) never be forgiven.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted June 13, 2018 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      The UK had no negotiating position to start with. You really believed Gove’s line of “we hold all the cards”… how cute !

  84. Posted June 12, 2018 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    When the sorry history and account of the Brexit process comes to be written it is going to be abundantly clear who should carry the can:

    The extremist nutters who have attempted to hijack the process by adding all kinds of implications to what was a simple binary vote, and have then driven the process completely off the rails for their own, selfish, dishonest and commercially advantageous ends.

  85. Simon Coleman
    Posted June 12, 2018 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    ‘…persuades more UK voters that No Deal is the best option.’ Can we just have a reality check here. No UK voters have voted for No Deal because none of them have been asked – and nor will they be. But the House of Commons is now going to get a meaningful vote, which will be the final nail in the coffin of No Deal. The only offer of No Deal is from Noel Edmonds, but I think even that’s now finished.

    • Edward2
      Posted June 13, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      It was stated by the PM and Chancellor and in that leaflet what leaving meant.
      Clear and straightforward.
      The SM CU and ECJ are the beating heart of the EU
      If you stay in those institutions you stay in the EU
      But you know that Simon don’t you.
      It’s a ruse by Remainers to stay in the EU

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  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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