No deal is better than a bad deal

I returned after a busy day to see people deliberately misrepresenting my first sentence. I will repeat what I have always said and still believe:

No deal is better than a bad deal

Any deal we accept has to be better than No deal to make it worth accepting.

No deal means no payments of any money after March 2019
Freedom to undertake our own trade deals
Settling our own migration policy
Deciding our own laws

I think there are two main options open to the negotiating parties. One is the WTO so called No deal option. The other is a comprehensive free trade agreement for goods and services.

The latest UK government statement is going to be expanded in a White Paper to be published soon. I will comment on it when it is available. This will be the second such White Paper and will presumably make compromises and changes compared with the first.

It seems unlikely it will be accepted by the EU. It needs to avoid surrendering control of our money, borders and laws. I have also always said you do not have to pay to trade, so have never favoured offering the EU money by way of a withdrawal present. As nothing is agreed until all is agreed, the UK should make clear the money is not a firm promise.

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217 Comments

  1. Javelin
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:14 am | Permalink

    John,

    You probably remember Im an algo trader at a tier one bank and every month review the internet comment sections to look for trends to parameterise.

    If the internet is any gauge of public opinion then the conservative party will have 90% of their supporters actively campaigning against them on the internet. That is an impossible obstacle to overcome. The public are acutely away that May has dipped the cabinets hands in bloody wounds of democracy. The only way I can see them standing any chance of winning is if the 1922 committe throw the entire cabinet out of office and replace them with fresh ministers, anda Brexit PM.

    • Hope
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:57 am | Permalink

      Hear hear. Do not blame me I stopped voting Tory when Cameron came along. You could not beleive a word he said, the same for May. The expense scandal and lies of action turned out o be a con on the public. Cameron lied he reformed the EU.The Tory party have failed to gauge the damage on social media to date and it will perpetuate to a landslide victory for Labour.

      Today a cowardly Tory cabinet trying to convince us they have not sold out the country. Idiots.

      • Stephen Priest
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

        Unless she is removed now the Conservative party is over. There would be no point voting Conservative. In her 2 years as Prime Minister she has yet to announce a single conservative policy.

        This has been a 100% capitulation not negotiation.

        When Merkel and Macron write their memoirs the will say that the 100% humiliation of the United Kingdom was their crowning glory. They managed to achieve what no other French or German leader had ever managed to achieve .

        They will say our EU allies working in the UK planted Theresa May in number 10 Downing Street and everything went according to plan.

    • JoolsB
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

      Totally agree but it seems Tory MPs and Ministers have chosen to put party before country and therefore cave in to May’s betrayal.

      • libertarian
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

        JoolsB

        NO… they haven’t put party before country, they’ve destroyed their own party too . They have done this purely because they are so detached from real everyday people, business and the normal activities of life that they think they know better than us. They are so far down the road to playing to the media gallery with their virtue signalling that they can’t any longer conceptualise the benefits of small business, the local economy and the future of global digital trading. The politicians and their civil service “leadership” have proved beyond doubt that they are no longer fit for purpose. This feels very reminiscent of the 1970’s, when our politicians crashed the country, then blamed everyone else and thought the answer to the problem was more politicians and more state control. Luckily someone with real leadership skills appeared on the scene and undid the damage….. The thing is I haven’t seen anyone with the vision, courage and skill to do that this time yet…. we live in hope

      • Hope
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

        Chief whip bans them from speaking to media. If was a good deal there would be no problem! Get rid of her or be gone forever.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

          No Pm is better that a bad PM.

          • rose
            Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

            Good, very good!

          • Leslie Singleton
            Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

            Dear Lifelogic–Truly that Gove fellow is a nasty piece of work–Treacherous through and through–Bring in Boris before it’s too late I say.

    • Helen Smith
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

      Correct, I will remain a member of the Tories so I can vote against May, when the time comes, but I will campaign against them, not that I will need to judging by the reaction among Leavers to her proposL.

      I feel for people like our host who is an honest and upright man and 100% sound on Brexit but there you are.

    • hefner
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      I (unfortunately) do not see think it is true. As a lot of people before you you are a victim of the Internet syndrome taking comments from people on a few sites on the Internet as representative of the whole population. Even if you had been able to sample properly the full range and all such sites, you would still be missing all these people who have not access to the Internet or who do not care for political Internet sites (generally or because of the World Cup). As they say in France you are taking ‘des vessies pour des lanternes’.
      Sorry to disappoint you but a bit of statistics and sociology might help you here.

      • libertarian
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

        hefner

        Hold on we’ve been repeatedly told by all your “academic” “expert” friends and the media that Russia got Trump elected and Brexit voted for by placing a few adverts on social media. I think you ought to get away from statistics and sociology and engage with real people.

        All the people who dont have access to the internet?

        You’re not even very good with statistics either are you

        In 2017, 90% of households in Great Britain had internet access
        In terms of access, 73% of adults accessed the internet “on the go” using a mobile phone or smartphone
        In terms of purchases, 77% of adults bought goods or services online,

        In 2017, 93% of adults who had bought online in the last 12 months, had done so from online sellers in the UK, while 31% had bought from sellers in other EU countries and 31% had bought from the rest of the world.

        As I think I may have mentioned

        The EU, politicians in general and “academic experts” are way behind the curve in the new digital economy

        • Hope
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

          Hef, is a good contributor. Sadly, on occasion, he thinks he is too clever for the rest of us. Come on, Hef, even you are not perfect and the best informed. Dennis holds that prize for being the best informed with evidence and fact.

      • mancunius
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

        And you think an algorhythms and parametrics expert at a major bank needs your advice on ‘a bit of statistics and sociology’?

        Well, at least you’ve given us all a much-needed laugh.

      • hefner
        Posted July 9, 2018 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

        Libertarian, mancunius,

        Thanks for these numbers, I happen to be aware of those. Anyway this is not the point.
        Say we have 1000 political or assimilated websites, each with 1000 distinct contributors, that’s still only one million people potentially putting their comments.
        Knowing perfectly well that JR’s website might not be representative , there are a few hundred people commenting every day, but accounting daily for multiple postings by some given individuals and for usual daily contributors commenting every day of the week, the actual number of independent samples over a week is nothing like thousands.

        I thought it was obvious. Obviously not.

        • Hope
          Posted July 10, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

          Were they using JRs blog to represent their numbers?

          • Puffer Fish
            Posted July 11, 2018 at 7:59 am | Permalink

            I guess taking the example of MrRedwood’s blog was to show that 1000 websites with 1000 contributors does not really translate into one million independent informations due to the high level of repeats. Which I think is a fair point.
            For example take Mr Lifelogic who usually comments 3-4 times a day, with at least 1 or 2 of them including a climate-related put down. How many climate sceptics does it make at the end of the week? 7 to 14, or just 1?
            That would be a question for GCSE maths students.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

      Javelin

      If the internet is any gauge of public opinion then the conservative party will have 90% of their supporters actively campaigning against them on the internet

      So very sad but so very true.

      Push has got to go to shove and implement your last comment regarding a total complete new way of operating and thinking by the party.

    • rose
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

      Though not scientific or technical like you, I have gleaned the same impression from the internet. It is like the Tommy affair all over again – the furious public thinking one thing and the powers that be another.

  2. Mick
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Mrs May said: “What we’re proposing is a good deal for Britain and a good deal for our future. “We’re leaving the European Union. I think when people voted to leave the EU they wanted an end to free movement, free movement will end. They wanted us to end the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in the UK, that will end. They wanted us to stop sending the vast sums of money to the EU that we do today – so take control of our money, our laws and our borders – and that’s exactly what we will do.
    This I can live with only because I can understand it because it’s very nearly straight talking, so long as there isn’t some sort of hidden clause that future governments can sneak us back into the dreaded Eu by a secret back door, we know how crafty these legal eagles can be to pull the wool over our eyes

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:39 am | Permalink

      What she means is those things will end and be replaced by things with a different name which do exactly the same. For example “free movement” will be replaced by a “mobility framework” which has exactly the same results.

    • oldtimer
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:39 am | Permalink

      Not so fast! You need to read the analysis of the government statement made by Martin Howe QC before you relax and think all is well. It will, according to his analysis, enable all sorts of backdoor interference by the EU and its institutions that the Brexit vote was intended to stop, to the extent the
      UK becomes a vassal state. Despite May’s words this is not the Brexit I voted for.

      The next stage is the publication of the white paper when the full extent of the May betrayal will become much clearer.

    • Hope
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

      It is simply not true. Read it.

      • Hope
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

        The civil service were caught agreeing to a KitKat leave with EU counts parts to hide costs and ties to the EU. This is dishonest. May is in charge and it turns out the KitKat policy is being delivered. Please show me I am wrong to conclude that May is a liar if you compare her Lancaster speech, following comments, red lines, strap lines and KitKat policy to her recent white paper. Better still compare to the paper she produce after the Lancaster speech.

        Do not blame me I did not vote for Tories they are far too dishonest and never keep their word. May is like Blaire in a dress you cannot beleive a word she says. Where are her red lines now? Where are the main points of her Lancaster speech and her comments thereafter claiming thatstaying in the single market is not actually leaving! She changed the single market to regulatory alignment and magically we are meant to be fooled! Labour mobility means freedom of movement, common rule book means rule taker, our courts following ECJ case law means ECJ has supremacy, EU citizens living here will have matters addressed by ECJ. This means ECJ has supremacy over our laws. If the U.K. Deviates huge financial consequences that means in reality parliament will not deviate from the EU it is a technical control for cosmetic purposes.

        Giving hundred billion plus and tens of billion yearly while in a punishment extension is giving away billions of our money to the EU. Gove’s white paper makes cosmetic changes to the CFP, it is basically the same. It gives EU the largest share of our fish! Please show me that I am wrong. It is utterly dishonest to say that this represents any form of leaving the EU by the democratic vote of this country. Parliament is there to serve the people and its wishes, not to ignore and do as it pleases. May’s proposal is an affront to democracy. She must be ousted. We do not live nor want to live in a dictatorship run by Treason May.

  3. Graham Wood
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    Mrs May was bequeathed a silk purse in the form of the 2016 referendum result, but she has only succeeded in stitching up a pigs ear out of it.

  4. Nig l
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    Martin Howe QC briefing memo sets out clearly how he thinks the EC will continue to keep us dangling, a gracious last minute concession etc plus the actual legal position of all the bland, we are doing what we promised, statements that show how enmeshed we will continue to be but no representation to go with it. Interesting that he asserts the proposed new arrangements will enable the EU to skew the rules even more in favour of continental producers with us helpless to do anything about it.

    No deal, no chance? The transition period will be (quietly?) somehow extended.

    Theresa May is relying on these generalised headline to hide the legal realities from what she thinks is a gullible public. Well Dr Redwood she is not succeeding with the vast (all?) majority of people who voted to leave, knowing we are being sold out and the latest op poll reflects that.

    • forthurst
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:43 am | Permalink

      Did Martin Howe consider the issue of the Ulster border and how it is vital that milk shall continue to flow over that border and that even more vital is it that the grass on either side of the border is equally wholesome for cows; many of us will recall with a shudder the nearly fate of Penka the Bulgarian cow which strayed over the border with Serbia; but what if that border were to be on the island of Ireland and the cows name, Saoirse? If the life of just one cow is saved, surely in the inimitable words of that great humanitarian, Madeleine Albright, “The price is worth it”.

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

      Nig1, The EU’s tactic now will be to accept this UK position.

      Politically it makes sense for them because not only does it so transparently give them most of what they want, but they will be able to salami slice many more concessions from the hapless Mrs May and our Quisling civil service.

    • Graham Wood
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

      NIG L
      Do you have a link for Martin Howe’s briefing Please?

  5. Peter Divey
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    John…Brexit has been suspended with this Chequers deal. It is unclear if the suspension will ever be lifted. The White Paper will only clarify the deceit. Weasel words and different terms that actually mean Customs Union or Single Market or Free Movement will offer no cover. It is cowardice and plainly dishonest. The Red Lines have been rolled up, those heralded speeches that the PM gave…now shown to be propaganda and disinformation. Told the people of the UK one thing whilst preparing something rather different behind our backs. She lied. Brexit no longer means Brexit, but the real tragedy is that it never did. Some bright spark has dubbed it “incremental divergence”…this is a very bad deal. The EU will not reject this wholesale, they will want further tweaks, concessions that will be granted. When that ridiculous Irish back stop was agreed…but i do not believe it was incompetence. A devious plan has been implemented, and is close to success. Brexit means Remain…

    • Timaction
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

      I totally agree and everyone out in the real world knows it. Tory’s are toast unless they remove May with a Brexiter toot suite. Lies, colluding with Merkle and the EU behind our backs. MSM aren’t reporting what people are thinking and saying out here!!

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      Peter Divey, It is a “Kit-Kat” Brexit: Remain hard tack on the inside, covered with a thin layer of soft gooey Leave platitudes on the outside.

  6. Lifelogic
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    Indeed. But we are clearly heading for a total disaster with May and Hammond. A total betrayal/fraud that is perhaps even worse than full membership. May is constructing an elaborate fraud againt the voters. They will not be fooled by this lefty, remainer, dope and her tax the economy to death, IHT ratting sidekick.

    • Hope
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:48 am | Permalink

      May has changed the name of single market to regulatory alignment, she has changed freedom of movement to Labour Mobility, may has changed ECY ruling to our courts must follow ECJ jurisprudence. Parliament are there for the people not to ignore the people and make the electoral democracy a sham.

      Michael Howe QC gives his verdict in Guido. The U.K. Will be a vassal state forever. Changing names has May has done does not change the reality of the position. May has sold the country out. May has not changed. May is untrustworthy underhand and you cannot beleive a word she says.

      Gove back stabbed Johnson to thwart the main figure in the Leave campaign. Today shows his backstabbing qualities once again. He tried to smear Farage. Gove should look in the mirror and understand he is untrustworthy and you cannot beleive a word he says. A remain Trojan horse. He should not be in any public office. He is not fit for purpose.

      • Iain Moore
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

        I agree, I was going to write something similar. May seeks to claim she is abiding by the referendum result by changing the name of EU obligations, but not the reality.

        This morning we were told by Gove that we would still be out of the CAP, but May has said we would be regulatory aligned with EU rules on agriculture. i.e in the CAP in all but name.

        It is even more sickening to be told that though we are to be aligned with EU rules, if there is something that Parliament doesn’t like they can diverge from the agreed treaty if they so wish. But we know from past experiences, that even when EU treaties are seriously damaging the interests of our people and industries, like the fishing industry, Parliament will never summon up the courage to tell the EU where to get off, for some multinational , like Airbus , will start making threats, and our MPs will kowtow to their lobbying and their interests.

        What we are being asked to swallow is a grotesque con, it seems that though the No10 spin operation has got all the media, newspapers, ‘opinion formers’ etc to swallow all this guff, the general public hasn’t and they know a rat when they smell one.

      • John C.
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

        All very well put and to my mind indisputable.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

        I agree fully. Gove was appalling on Marr today with his pathetic attempts to sell this total betrayal.

    • stred
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink

      Hammond’s project fear II in the form of warnings about economic decline after Brexit has been shown to be fraudulent by a qualified economist. The Kit kat boys and girls caught out again.
      https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/985158/brexit-news-treasury-model-no-deal-brexit-customs-union-single-market-comment

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

      This show just how dire the proposal is.

      http://lawyersforbritain.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Chequers-Briefing-Memo.pdf

      It is clearly totally unacceptable and by a very long way indeed. May must go and go now. She is a useless leader, cannot think in real time, never say a thing that is not toatally obvious or completely wrong, a PC dope, a socialist, a blatant liar & fraud, clearly she is still a remainer and a total electoral liability as well. If you change the name of something you have changed nothing but that name. We are not complete idiots like you seem to be.

      Mogg may still say he respects and trust Theresa May and that she is honourable. I certainly never did trust her. She was an appalling and rather nasty Home Secretary for many years too.

  7. Christine
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    John, Mrs May has lost all credibility. Nobody believes a word she says any more. She is trying to create a bureaucratic nightmare. Next she will be saying her plan will only take fifty years to implement we just have to be patient but Brexit Means Brexit and we will be leaving the Single Market, Customs Union and ECJ. She will destroy your party if you don’t get rid of her.

  8. Martin King
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    Sometimes I am amazed at your ability to stay focussed and positive. I look forward to reading your comments on the White Paper in due course. Thank you for sharing your thoughts everyday.

    • hefner
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

      Are you so sure it is staying ‘focussed and positive’ or are the top Brexiters afraid of their shadows and actually do not dare to take over as they would have to endorse the full responsibility of their acts. Right now, it is so comfortable to be a gross Boris or some pseudo-intellectual funny guy stringing sentences with not much meaning, let May face the mess and then be able to tell us ‘I told you so’. I really despise this whole bunch of scary-cats. Thinking we might, after 29/03/2019, exchange the May bunch for the JRM’s and acolytes’ bunch is nothing to be looking forward to.

      • libertarian
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

        hefner

        I agree with you on this. We dont need sub standard, ignorant politicians from any party to represent our wishes. We have technology to do that, we need iDemocracy and we need it now

  9. The Prangwizard
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    There’s a definition of insanity which is something like repeating an action and expecting a different outcome. Reading here about Mrs May and her actions on Brexit is similar. It’s been clear from the outset she wishes us to remain tied to the EU and yet it’s always ‘wait and see’. It’s mad to wait and see. She’s banking on weakness and mistaken loyalty. She is determined to sell us out. Anyone going along with her delays tricks lies and deceits helps her betrayal.

  10. Blue and Gold
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    The country did not vote for a Hard Brexit that you want.

    The British public made that absolutely clear in the Conservative government’s vanity general election last year.

    I will say, yet again , you as a wealthy member of the elite are not being affected by the increase in prices of everyday items, including petrol, due to the fall in sterling since the referendum result.

    The people who are being hit financially are normal citizens. Your No Deal will hit us even more.

    Your ideas were rejected by the Cabinet at Chequers, your boys got one hell of a beating, as you will know from my comment yesterday, which of course true to form, you dislike Free Speech so did not publish it.

    • Edward2
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:35 am | Permalink

      Read the leaflet.
      Listen to all the speeches by Cameron during the referendum.
      Over 80% of votes in the election went to parties with manifestos promising to leave.
      The Greens and Lib Dems failed to gain any ground.
      Stop your ridiculous nonsense.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:46 am | Permalink

      Petrol prices are driven by the value of oil which fluctuates considerably. The 10% extra we pay for cars imported from America and the 20% extra we pay for oranges from South Africa are due to EU protectionist tariffs which you want to keep apparently.

    • Remington Norman
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:30 am | Permalink

      Your comment is both unfair and unreasonable. Criticising John Redwood’s wealth and social position is not an argument; it is abuse. Whatever deprivation is suffered has nothing to do with Brexit. The UK economy is performing well – and indeed outperforming all eurozone economies apart from that of Germany. What has done significant damage to living standards is an uncontrolled influx of EU migrants which has depressed wages. Employers will understandably choose cheaper labour if it is available to them; close the migration door and wage rates are likely to rise.

      If you take issue with views you dislike, deal with the arguments rather than smearing the person.

    • forthurst
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:30 am | Permalink

      ‘Normal’ citizens have been paying above world prices for their food because they are forced to buy food produced by inefficient French farmers whilst our own potentially far more productive farmers are forced to leave their fertile land fallow. Meanwhile our fishermen are forced to join their farming compatriots in the pub because the Dutch have been allocated the fish that swim in their ancestral fishing grounds. ‘Normal’ citizens have to pay additional taxes so that the government can send their money to help the EU bankroll French farmers and those whose countrymen have taken their minimum wage jobs because their countries used to belong to the Bolshevik Empire and needs some new roads which we need as well because our existing roads are choked with the petrol vehicles of foreigners exercising their right to free movement.

    • Seat of Mars
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

      “Hard Brexit” is an invented term post the Referendum.

      We had the negotiations with Cameron, this deal was put to the public and the public voted NO DEAL. We were told what Leaving would mean, in all it’s gory detail, and we voted for it anyway.

      No Deal IS Brexit. And anything else is a betrayal of the Referendum.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

        Seat of Mars,

        Final sentence, absolutely correct.

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

      B&G, We were given the choice by Parliament to vote Remain or Leave. Only. There was no other choice on the ballot paper, no “Soft” Remain option. Leave means being independent of the EU.

      Both campaigns were completely clear that Leave meant leaving the single market (actually termed the “Internal Market”, the “customs union”, and the “Common Commercial Policy” in the EU treaties), no longer being subject to the CJEU within the UK, and controlling our own borders, laws, fish, etc, as any other independent nation can.

    • zorro
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

      Not at all – over 80% of voters voted fior parties that stated explicitly in their manifesto that they would leave the SM/CU… Hard Brexit/Soft Brexit are chimeras dreamed up by Remainers like you. We voted to leave the EU which involved the oft repeated measures which mean effectively leaving the EU. Again your Project Fear was proved wrong, and we will have lower prices when we are not tied to the protectionist tariffs enforced by the EU and can source our goods elsewhere and more cheaply when not a member of the CU. Powder was kept dry at Chequers because we know that the EU will refuse T May’s offer and demand further concessions….

      zorro

    • John C.
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

      When a team gets “a hell of a beating” it only applies when the teams are equal. When the overwhelming majority of the cabinet are Remainers, and May is a Remainer they simply outvote the Leavers. When the government are Remainers, they simply ignore 17 million voters. It’s not a “hell of a beating”, it’s just ignoring the democratic wish of the people.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

      Blue and Gold

      The country did not vote for a Hard Brexit

      We voted for Brexit and nobody cared about how it would happen.. In our book “Out means Out” and the House of Westminster would honour the decision of the people. When the impossible happened two things came together at the same time:

      Cameron jumped ship .

      The media came up with soft and hard and the remainers in the country fell for it hook, line, sinker, rod and the boat so desperate were they to sow doubt and overthrow the decision. All through the referendum there was never any mention of soft and hard it was either in or out. Now sad people like you want to rewrite the rules you have no real feelings of pride being in control of your destiny, rather be controlled by a faceless unelected cartel trying to over rule and control all its member states from the centre.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted July 9, 2018 at 1:16 am | Permalink

      Blue and Gold

      “Your No Deal will hit us even more.”

      Please do not use the word “us”. You are not one of us…you are something else that unfortunately cannot be written here due to our kind host’s fairness rules…

      ..but the rest of the balanced individual contributors here, know what I mean!

  11. Tabulazero
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    Yet again you bring back the comprehensive FTA that the EU has no interest in signing

    Can’t you understand that the EU will not destroy the single-market for the sake of your political career ?

    You are the one who sold the FTA idea to the public, not the EU.

    After yesterday’s capitulation, the next step is EFTA and the d’émotion of the UK to vassal status.

    Well done !

    Reply I did no such thing. I always said No deal was a feasible outcome which will work fine

    • hans christian ivers
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

      John,

      No deal will make us poorer and make trade with Eu that much more expensive, so stop pretending otherwise, you should know better

      • Edward2
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

        Prove what you say hans
        Or is it just more Project Fear propaganda?

      • libertarian
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

        hans

        Your failure to understand the WTO is astonishing. Your made up assertion with no evidence what so ever is sadly typical of your misguided pronouncements , to be honest even if you were correct ( your not) the EU is such a small part of our exports in goods that it wouldn’t really make a lot of difference anyway

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted July 9, 2018 at 1:20 am | Permalink

        hans christian ivers

        ….you should know better too; stop your anti-British drivel?

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

      Tabulazero, You appear to be saying the UK cannot be an independent nation. Can you justify your opinion?

      • Tabulazero
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

        The UK cannot be an independent nation on the terms given to the public by the Leave side: that Brexit would be riskless and painless exercise.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

          Who said leaving would be reckless?
          Why would remaining be painless?
          Do tell.

        • libertarian
          Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

          Tabulazero

          You really think that the UK can’t trade as an independent nation under WTO just like er 164 other countries do? Blimey mate , you need help

          • Tabulazero
            Posted July 9, 2018 at 8:10 am | Permalink

            Why don’t you ask this questions to Nissan, BMW, Airbus, Siemens UK… etc ?

            They set up shop there in order to have access to the Single-Market which they stand to lose.

            If you only want to trade under WTO terms, there are far better and cheaper places to do so than the UK.

          • libertarian
            Posted July 9, 2018 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

            Tabulazero

            That would be the Nissan thats just invested in a new Sunderland production line, BMW who are building electric vehicles in the UK , Siemans that invested £27 million in the UK’s largest 3D printing factory would it

            Airbus is a business in trouble, especially now Boeing has opened a factory in Sheffield. Airbus can bluster all they like but thy have a UK government loan ( Its an RPI too which means they are in default if they dont meet the terms) They aren’t going anywhere .

            You remainers are so naive

        • NickC
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

          Tabulazero, Life is a risk, trading is a risk, exporting is a risk. There’s risk in being independent, but also risk in remaining a vassal state of the EU. Being independent at least means the UK has the power to manage our own risks, under the EU we have to trust the EU will look out for us – and the evidence is they don’t.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

        yes by the Eu, OECD, IoD , CBI and IMF, what I your justicfication now that you suddenly have to present real facts,

        thank you

        • Edward2
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 6:27 am | Permalink

          You can’t use the EU as a way of justifying your argument Hans.
          The IMF is run by ex EU technocrats and has repeatedly got its forecasts wrong.
          The IoD and CBI are groups who represent multi nationals and a few hundred big companies who love the EU and were in favour of the Snake the ERM and the UK having the Euro.
          The OECD is another pro EU organisation that has published over gloomy reports which have been wrong so why do you still believe their current guesses of the future.

        • libertarian
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

          hans

          Oh my word. Sorry mate but you look sillier by the day. I know Brexit drives some people mad but listen, for your own credibility think about what you are posting. You really are showing an astonishing lack of judgment

          The institutions that you cite are all massively Pro EU, and 4 of the 5 are failing institutions at that, with 2 of them in a severe leadership crisis

          Heres a real fact, 80% of the UK’s economic activity is in services. The EU does not have an internal market in services. So there is NO POINT in being part of it .

        • NickC
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

          Hans, Actually you have provided nothing to justify your belief that the UK cannot be an independent nation. Put it another way, why is the UK so unique in the world that we cannot be as independent of the EU as, say, Japan, Australia or Russia?

  12. Paul Robson
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    This is entirely sensible. People are screeching ‘betrayal’ and the remainers are crowing. But we do not have the actual paper yet. It makes sense to wait for it and see what the level heads amongst the conservatives say.

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

      Paul Robson, If that were true, why has HMG issued the 3 page Chequers statement? So we should ignore it? HMG’s Chequers statement is full of contradictions and capitulations as it stands.

      • Paul
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

        Probably because they are trying to muddy the waters and get the PR view out there first. I don’t think that will work, and it could make it worse.

        If people like Mr Redwood confirm what many people (including myself) suspect, then the Tories are stuffed. Corbyn will not get any of the blame (he would probably have made a worse job !) and half the Tory party will be very very fed up with Mrs May.

        I’m hoping it will be better than the initial view.

        • Sir Joe Soap
          Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

          No
          There is no way round certain elements of this paper. If anything the 3 page statement put a gloss on the thing. Look at one element only – collecting customs tariffs for the EU. For this to work the EU would have to reciprocate and collect higher customs tariffs on behalf of the UK for any product imported from outside where the UK tariff was higher than the EU’s, then refund the difference to the UK if it was consumed in the EU.

          It’s not going to happen. Dead duck.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

        Nick C

        just like you

        • libertarian
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 8:23 am | Permalink

          hans

          As usual, rude, unnecessary and the type of comment we’ve come to expect from you.

          You must do better than that

  13. alan jutson
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    A Big mistake was calling a WTO deal, a no deal, suggesting to the many uniformed that no arrangement of any kind would be in place when we leave.

    The second mistake was for our Government and Politicians negotiating and arguing with themselves instead of presenting a united front.

    The third mistake was to wait and waste two years before we were even ready to even ask for what we wanted.

    The fourth mistake was to agree to the EU’s schedule on talks.

    Another mistake was never make it absolutely clear that we would walk away and implement our own terms WTO should sensible negotiations fail to produce a sensible agreement.

    An absolutely clueless management of the Country’s wishes, requirements, desires and needs, from a Micro manager of a Prime Minister who clearly lacks vision, strategy, commercial skills, and who thinks the EU Politicians are our friends.

    • Bob
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:17 am | Permalink

      Wow!

      Spot on Alan.

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

      Alan Jutson, A very fair summary of the numerous, often amateurish, mistakes made by our government. In particular there is no excuse for failing to prepare for the WTO deal as our visible primary aim, not merely as a half-hearted back-stop in the background (which no one takes seriously anyway). The EU would then have had an incentive to talk to us. Maybe they would have had to come to London to negotiate?

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted July 9, 2018 at 1:37 am | Permalink

      alan jutson

      Excellent summary of T. May’s amateurish management, incomprehensible business tactics and the most childish of rudimentary mistakes!

      I would have been extremely happy to meet such incompetent negotiating adversaries in my line of business….I do shudder to think how this group of intellectually inadequate individuals can be running a country….with less than a corner shop’s commercial experience?

      If truth be told, if they all disappeared overnight, no one would notice!

      Time to step up to the Plate, John!

  14. The Prangwizard
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    I do not believe there is any prospect that May will withdraw all the proposals and concessions she has already made under the ‘nothing is agreed until all is agreed’ statement unless she is forced. It is utter folly to hope and imagine she will. Why are the Brexiteers in cabinet and elsewhere behaving with such supine stupidity?

  15. fedupsoutherner
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    Agreed John. We voted to LEAVE. Not to do deals with the EU and certainly not to pay more money to them. If the EU reject our offer then surely now is the time to say we are LEAVING and not negotiate anymore. Our only problem will be getting this through parliament and the HOL. There lies our stumbling block.

    If it weren’t for the football then my weekend would have been a complete wipeout.

  16. agricola
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    Agreed , but how do we impress this upon Mrs May and her remainer support in the Cabinet who seem all too ready to ignore the stated wish of the majority of voters. If she gets it wrong and is not prepared to fall back on WTO rules, assuming EU inevitable intransigence, then it could spell her political end and that of the Conservative party.

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

      Agricola, Mrs May has made the same blunder as she did for last year’s general election – a bureaucratic fudge untested on the electorate. When it sees the light of day it shrivels and dies.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        But this time she can’t survive the stupidity.

    • Timaction
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

      Indeed. Theresa May and her cohort’s have broken our democracy. The whole system has to change. She has betrayed 17.4 million people who voted to leave. Her negotiating position is just changing the names of the EU institutions. She is a lying, conniving traitor, who will be brought to account. Following the EU rulebook and it’s ECJ and the rest is NOT leaving.

  17. Dave Andrews
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    WTO means keeping our money. A FTA on mutual terms also means keeping our money.
    If we are giving the EU any money, I expect to see value in what we pay them.
    If ministers feel the EU should be given pocket money, they can put their hands in their own pockets.
    I don’t go along with the idea that we have financial obligations beyond our departure date, if those obligations are not clearly set out in the treaties. We can lend with interest if the EU has financial needs to fulfil, but otherwise they can appeal to our courts for any money they feel they are owed.

  18. Michael
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    The Chequers proposals are a weak basis upon which to found our negotiating position to leave the EU. All is downhill from here. We will end up as associate members of the EU not having taken back full control and subject to the Brussels rulebook.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

      Then why did you vote Leave if the U.K. end in a position worse than membership,

      • Edward2
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

        Leaving is good.
        Remaining half in is bad.

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted July 9, 2018 at 1:59 am | Permalink

        Tabulazero

        A simple reminder, in case this has been too subtle for you?

        The majority of the British people voted, through a democratic and legal process, to leave and expected the Government to execute the will of the people! Just like all General Elections (no one tried to turn these democratic results around unless you know better?)

        The problem: the people never expected traitorous Remainers to stab their own people in the back….are you a supporter of the treacherous Remain camp?

  19. Ian wragg
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    We must congratulate Russia and Sweden for qualifying for the semi finals.
    After all that is how things work in Britain. Tbe losers take it all to paraphrase ABBA.
    I see the 5% lead in the polls has turned negative. Why would that be.

  20. Peter D Gardner
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    ” … two main options open to the negotiating parties. One is the WTO so called No deal option. The other is a comprehensive free trade agreement for goods and services.”

    How could Mrs May be persuaded that a free trade is anything other than her deep and comprehensive partnership which we all now know means BRINO?

  21. Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Thank you for your reassurances, Dr Redwood.
    I don’t think your words were being deliberately misunderstood or misinterpreted by those who generally comment here, but many people are naturally most concerned that ‘red lines’ are going to be crossed and a deal agreed that will make us fearful for the future – and may snatch away the golden one that is almost in our grasp!

    So we are ‘twitchy’ about words that may be misrepresented by remainders! But thanks for reiterating what is important.

    • DaveK
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:08 am | Permalink

      Speaking for myself, I read the post twice before commenting and don’t understand how I misread the first sentence and only registered the first part of it. I must apologise to our host for that error.

  22. Glenn Vaughan
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    John

    Every day that passes, the Conservative Party is moving further away from you and closer to Corbyn and his Marxist mates.

  23. crazyTimes
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    Now you’re starting to sound like a cracked record with a faulty needle going round and round- all of this talk about taking back control is a load of bunkum- for instance just who exactly will have all of this control- not joe soap living up the road- not shelia shine living in decline

    Good deals, bad deals, no deals and comprehensive deals? – the best deal is the deal we have at the moment- if only we could get back to it? but we probably can’t and so because of window dressing and a pretense at democratic values we’re going to take a deal that will give us almost full access to the markets with almost full movement of people for limited access to european banking and limited access to negotiating new deals overseas..but where? with whom? and all of this with no place at the top table in Europe..crazytimes indeed

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

      CrazyTimes, Now you’re starting to sound like a cracked record with a faulty needle going round and round – the same tired old Remain propaganda that was rejected at the Referendum 2 years ago.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

        NIck C

        what have oyu changes in the past 12 months nothing

        • NickC
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

          Hans, That’s because Leave is right.

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted July 9, 2018 at 2:05 am | Permalink

        NickC

        Nick, I think you may have missed the subtle hint in the first part of his name?

  24. Peter Martin
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    JR wrote “Any deal has to be better than No Deal to be worth accepting.”

    It’s simply not on to supposedly quote someone by moving the full stop and missing out the last four words.

    It’s then not a quote at all and quotation marks should not be used.

    • acorn
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:29 am | Permalink

      I have a screen shot of the original post. Four words were not missed out. Twenty four words were added after the full stop? Naturally for a Brexit site, there was no comment to indicate that the original post had been edited. Conned again Peter.

      • Peter Martin
        Posted July 9, 2018 at 5:44 am | Permalink

        I take your point. Deliberately misquoting someone is one of my pet hates but if the original text had been altered, with no indication, then that does change the picture.

    • Annette
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

      The original blog quote ended after the word deal. Those misunderstanding it read it with emphasis on “Any” which appears to be May’s position. It did need clarification, particularly with the sheer betrayal by those who were finally seen for what they are – brexiteers in name only. I was one of those though I hoped that it was in error, and pointed it out, but several hours later changing the emphasis to “has” I realised that I’d mistaken the emphasis, but you can’t edit postings. On another day, when not so busy, John would have identified it as requiring clarification & it would’ve been addressed earlier.

  25. sm
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Thank you for the clarification of your position, John.

  26. Edward Everett
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Hi John. In the previous post I thought your first sentence, as originally written (as I recall, ‘any deal has to be better than no deal’), had to be ironic, but it shows the difficulty in maintaining clarity in this discussion, as it could be interpreted in two ways, as a statement of fact or conditionally. That said, this ‘deal’ is striking in that it’s with members of Mrs May’s own government, achieved at a set up and hyped up meeting at Chequers. Who exactly are the negotiation parties here? According to reports, Mrs May visited Mrs Merkel prior to this , to the casual observer for ‘clearance’. What happened to the role of Mr Davis?

    • stred
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:21 am | Permalink

      JR was stating the Chequers statement by May. She believes that a no-deal is unacceptable and will only contemplate a capitulation to her friends in the EU. This is why May/Hammond/civil service delayed or cancelled any work to put in the necessary systems for a WTO deal walkaway. They were doing the same as the Irish PM in order to make WTO difficult. They now say they are preparing, but as the Treasury has been proved underhand over the course of Brexit, can it be trusted?

  27. Freeborn John
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Johnson, Fox & Gove have to resign. Not doing so is damaging them more than their ministerial cars can ever be worth. We knew since the first reports in the German press of May’s first meeting with the EU after invoking Article 50 that she planned this cosmetic Brexit modelled on her JHA opt-out-and-back-in-again. What we learned Friday was that Johnson, Fox & Gove are pathetic spineless creatures. They are going to be completely toxic with voters from now on.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:49 am | Permalink

      Just seen Gove on TV saying what a splendid deal it is. Strange times.

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

      Freeborn John, I think Michael Gove has encored his backstabbing – the Leave voter this time, rather than Boris Johnson though.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

        boris Johnson has lost all creditibity

        • NickC
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

          Hans, No spell checker in Remain land?

    • rose
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

      Don’t brexiteers need some presence in the Cabinet, even if it’s only 26%?

  28. No deal
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    “World Cup BOYCOTT could be dropped if England make final hints May”

    The woman needs to understand what pride, self respect and keeping your word means!

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

      Thought she was supporting Belgium, there was a photo of her brandishing a Belgium shirt the other day.

      • alan jutson
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

        Roy

        The last thing we need if England do reach the final, are politicians attending.

        They would be advised to surrender the match before the kick off, as it may upset our friends if they didn’t !

        Just shows how good politicians principles are if the suggestion is anywhere near to being true.

        Have Russia improved anything since the last statement made by our Government ?

    • Peter Lavington
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

      If I were Putin I wouldn’t allow any of the British establishment to attend any England games. We, the people, know they don’t support their own country.

      • Timaction
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

        Especially England!!

      • APL
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

        Peter Lavington: “If I were Putin I wouldn’t allow any of the British establishment to attend any England games.”

        Way to make Putin more popular than Theresa May.

        • Sir Joe Soap
          Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

          Indeed, Putin should deny them visas, as they have to many of his countrymen! It will be worth us making it to the final just to see this happen!

  29. Richard1
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Sounds like a very soft and squishy Brexit to me. No Deal might be better than this – but let’s face it so might cancelling article 50 and remaining in the EU. The test will be whether the UK will be free eg to plug into the Australia-NZ FTA, to join TPP, maybe even to join NAFTA. If, when we see the detail of this, it turns out we are under such regulatory control by the EU as we cannot do such things, this proposal clearly falls into the category of a bad deal.

  30. Jason wells
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    The bottom line is that we will not be better off outside of the EU than we are at the moment..the EU haave already said so..and it seems now the white paper is all a fudge wrapped up in spin as I have just been listening to M Gove the great fibber this morning on Marr..so now we know.. we’ve been sold out..and negotiations with Barnier, which will require more compromise, have not even started yet..

    • Blue and Gold
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

      Well of course we wont be better off outside the EU. The penny drops.

      Nobody, not even all the people behind Project Lies, fully knew what leaving the EU meant or would be.

      Brexmoaners say ‘this is not what I voted for’ etc as if they knew all the ‘in and outs ‘ involved in leaving.

      The average voter did not really fully understand re the implications of leaving the Single Market or Customs union, and the main reason people voted for Brexit is because they don’t like foreigners, ” comin’ over ‘ere ” , to put it in the way most Brexiteers speak .

      • Edward2
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

        Usual twaddle from you Blue n Gold.
        Amazing you have asked 17 million voters.

      • Mr Ecks
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

        Deceitful remainiac trolling.

        This is the work of remain as May is your creature.

  31. Adam
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    39bn would be a good kick-start to our newly regained freedom if we use it for our own objectives rather than the EU’s.

  32. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    So Mr Redwood

    Given that the released details of “the plan” do not live up to your expectations, what is an MP to do

    • hefner
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

      To lie down and keep writing jolly nothings.

  33. stred
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Greencrap Gove seems to have done his usual Vicar of Bray act and is BS’ing his usual stuff. Lawyers for Britain have issued an accurate and truthful interpretation of the fudge. Once a fudge, always a fudge.

  34. Andy
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’. This is – and always has been – a load of rubbish. A hollow threat. Even some of the Cabinet’s sillier Brexiteers realise this.

    The EU is a rules based system. It is underpinned by laws. No deal means us willingly removing the legal basis for our trade, for our travel, for our people to live their lives. It would cause chaos. No sane government would countenance it.

    So no deal is not an option, however bad the deal. And we know that Theresa May’s plan is a bad deal. This is because there is no doable Brexit deal which is better than what we have.

    So there you have it. Our current deal is better than the Tory hard-right pensioner bad deal. And the Tory hard-right pensioner bad deal is better than no deal.

    Turns out EU membership is better than ALL of the alternatives the Brexiteers have come up with. Who’d have thought?

    • Edward2
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:39 am | Permalink

      So how do non EU companies currently trade very successfully with Europe?
      How do non EU citizens currently get into Europe for holidays, to study and to work?

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

      Andy, Yet again you maintain that it is impossible for the UK to be an independent nation (“no deal is not an option”). Yet again you ignore the fact that our ability to trade, travel, and live our lives is underpinned by UK and international law quite separate from the EU. Yet again you are blind to the fact that most Leave voters did so to regain our freedom and independence, not become richer. Yet again you ignore history which tells us that independence is valuable in its own right, and that independent nations tend to be better off. Yet again you equate 17.4 million Leave voters – many of them young/middle-aged/Labour – as “Tory hard-right pensioners”.

      • Blue and Gold
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

        over 16 million voted Remain. The result was 52 per cent to 48 per cent, not 90 per cent in favour.

        Our views have to be taken into account. We are the 5th biggest economy by being in the EU.

        Get used to it , you Brexmoaners have lost the argument.

        And your man, Boris Johnson is a crude person who has no right to speak to his boss like he did. In any normal profession he would have been fired.

        • NickC
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 8:57 am | Permalink

          B&G, You know full well that if the vote had gone the other way (52% Remain) there would be absolutely no concessions at all to the 48% Leave votes.

        • libertarian
          Posted July 10, 2018 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

          Blue and Gold

          Err the UK was the Worlds 3rd largest economy before we joined the EU….

          The UK is the worlds 3rd largest economy in the services sector now , the EU DOES NOT have an internal market in services as Germany has been vetoing it for the last 25 years

          Yeh we lost the argument by having a million more supporters than you….. sheesh the naivety is strong

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

        NIck C

        just grow up you are arguing like a teenager

        • libertarian
          Posted July 10, 2018 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

          hans

          For someone who spells like a teenager, talks with emotion and no facts and is constantly rude I think you need to look in a mirror first

    • Dennis
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

      Andy – EU membership better, for what? Seems just for the economy?

      I assume you would vote No in the 1939 referendum – ‘Should Britain Declare War on Germany?’

      Voting Yes could destroy our economy, we would be poorer, we might lose the war!, we could be invaded, perhaps thousands of out citizens would be killed, we would be bombed from the air destroying houses, buildings etc. and we could be in debt to the USA for decades. Who would vote Yes, very few. I guess Churchill wouldn’t.

      You see the Brexit parallel.

      • Dennis
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

        ‘Churchill wouldn’t.’ would ,of course.

    • Richard1
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

      The EU is happy enough to ignore its rules when it suits -as we see from the Eurozone bailouts, strictly against the treaties, also the past breaches of the Maastricht borrowing limits by France and Germany with impunity, the continuing failure to try to force Sweden to join the Eurozone – as it is clearly obliged to do under the Maastricht treaty, and most recently, the decision not to exterminate the Balkan cow which wandered in and out of the single market and customs union(why wasn’t there a hard border?🤔).

      Many countries around the world survive and prosper without being in the EU, they trade with the EU and their citizens even travel to and from EU countries without hindrance. Why not the U.K.?

    • libertarian
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

      Hi Andy

      You must be mortified at all those old age pensioners trashing ambulances, fighting and smashing up IKEA whilst wearing England shirts. If only the youth were allowed to run our country we’d be so much better off

  35. Ken Moore
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    Dr Richard North is the go to expert on EU matters.
    So far he has been proved largely right.
    He has devoted a huge amount of effort into understanding the complexities of EU law.
    He wants the Uk to leave the European Union but is pragmatic about how this can be achieved.
    When he speaks you should listen.
    He has been a long standing critic of the EU.
    It would be reckless and foolish to ignore him…

    His latest assessment of Mrs May’s white paper

    Brussels will say no. If this dog’s breakfast is all Mrs May has to offer when she writes her Chequers proposal into the White Paper and sends it to the European Council, the outcome will be a “no deal”.

    ‘My guess is that Mrs May, far from being the political “genius” that some will aver, has misjudged the situation on all fronts’

    ‘Meanwhile, the UK media has almost completely lost it’

    ‘Neither print nor broadcast media have made any serious attempt to bring home how extraordinarily damaging a “no deal” Brexit might be. Variously trivialising or understating the issues, and never pulling the strands together, they have allowed the widespread impression to prevail that “no deal” is a tenable option.

    .

    • Edward2
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:42 am | Permalink

      By no deal you actually mean the WTO option with the UK offering tariff free trade to nations it wants to trade with.
      It works for all the other big trading nations of the free world.

    • Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:49 am | Permalink

      No no. The Go To experts on Brexit are Mr Redwood and Mr Lilley both of whom think is is really simple and takes ten minutes.

      • Ken Moore
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        I presume you are not being serious!

        Mr Redwood doesn’t have the time to trawl through mountains of Treaties, bi lateral trade deals and the rest of the web of complex deals that have taken in some cases decades to implement. Fortunately Dr North has done the work and concluded that the EEA option is the best we can hope for. ‘No deal’ is totally unworkable.
        But because his face doesn’t fit or he wears the wrong sort of trousers or for whatever reason he is being ignored.

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

      Ken Moore, The WTO deal is perfectly tenable. 98% of the world uses it already, including us and the EU. Certainly we have no need to be in the EU, or in the EEA, to trade with them, or to trade with the rest of the world.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        Nick C

        what are the economic conesquences, please

        • libertarian
          Posted July 10, 2018 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

          hans

          The economic consequences of WTO , are a growing economy, cheaper imports of food and an ability to set our own regulations and standards that operate across the 92% of UK business that doesn’t trade with the EU, government is shielded from lobbying, more choice of products and services and reduces the cost of living

      • Ken Moore
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

        If you bothered to read Dr North’s blog you would know that very few countries trade solely on WTO rules. Outside of the EU the UK becomes a ‘third country’ . For example absence of a system to ensure things like the certification of aircraft parts, conformity of vehicle standards, air traffic control compliance , checks on meat products would all cause massive disruption.

        • NickC
          Posted July 9, 2018 at 9:17 am | Permalink

          Ken Moore, Why is that people like you cannot actually factually argue? “If you bothered . . .” blah, blah. How do you know I haven’t?

          WTO rules are comprehensive in their own right. The RTAs and MRAs are not necessary: they are merely minor modifiers. And in the EU’s case their deals are very minor, except for S.Korea and Canada which are a decade away from full implementation.

          Out of the EU we can strike our own deals – Australia, New Zealand and the USA are almost pleading with us to grasp our independence.

      • Ken Moore
        Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

        How do you know the UK can trade successfully on WTO rules without it causing massive disruption? . Have you read and understood the relevant EU treaties, laws, trade deals etc. The newspapers don’t report the news they can’t afford proper journalists anymore because of the internet so they are likely feeding you superficial personality politics.
        JR can’t tell it how it really is as he takes the Tory party whip. The only person talking sense is Richard North.

  36. JoolsB
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    John,
    I have lost all faith in your party and May in particular to deliver on Brexit. May has shown her true colours, a remainer to the core, and sadly with the exception maybe of Boris, your pro Brexit colleagues are more concerned about their positions and ministerial cars than getting rid of this traitor. We the people have been betrayed and we will not forget.

  37. Prigger
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    “…to be worth accepting. ” If my memory serves me right,it may not, this bit was missing from the first few hours of the blog JR.

    I recall re-reading the original a couple of times and concluded you had sarcastically written it as probably what was in the minds of the Cabinet as a whole. I didn’t comment on it as, an alternative fact,I felt it could optionally be a typo.

    • Bob
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:07 am | Permalink

      As Alan Jutson clarified very succinctly above, the term “no deal” should not be used to describe WTO rules. The correct terminology makes all the difference, and avoids misinterpretation.

    • hefner
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

      Indeed it was missing in the early hours …

  38. M.W.Browne
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    We need new poltical parties in England. Why do we never seem to get politicians of the calibre of, for example, AfD.
    I enjoyed recently, watching Beatrix von Storch put the Newsnight woman in her place.

    • Brit
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

      She is in her place. A star of Fake News

  39. May's track record
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    It is typical of Mrs May throughout, she comes out with stuff which riles. I recall her “People wish to have MORE control over borders. ” as opposed to “absolute control” or a simple “Control of our Borders”.
    Her present alleged ” Not ruling out preferential treatment for EU migrants” coming in, as opposed to “Equality of migration” is a case in point.
    Mrs May is too intelligent for her spoken words to be a gaffe without immediate corrective re-phrasing. She is working for our defeat and is on her own spoken record for such.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

      No, she really isn’t that clever.
      Trying to fool most of the people by use of these weasel words when many of us have sussed her out just isn’t clever at all, but mendacious.

  40. Michael
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    The forthcoming white paper is going to be essential to discover exactly what the proposal entails. As ever, the devil is in the detail, but I, like many, have little faith left in this government.

    I fear that the white paper may well turn out to be the second longest suicide note ever written.

    We really need a new leader, someone of vision, courage and principle. Whilst I understand that timing is everything, this needs to happen soon.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

      The detail will be glossed over, and the fact that much of it is contrary to GATT rules, ignored. Then, around October, if this shenanigans continues, it will all be declared too complicated with multiple legal challenges being issued, and May will apply to revoke or prolong the art 50 period. Nobody’s fault, of course.

  41. MickN
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    You can be sure that it is a sell out when you look through the papers and there is silence from Sourbry, Clarke, Heseltine, Grieve, Morgan, Blair, Mandelson, Clegg, Campbell etc etc etc
    They are never short of something to say when they feel the situation is NOT going their way.
    I feel that laws and constitution are changed through the ballot box. This was done to do away with civil wars and fighting in the past, but take away the ability to get change through the ballot box and what is left?

  42. DUNCAN
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    I know something. We will have our political and electoral revenge against this party.

    I could never vote Marxist Labour so I will either abstain or vote UKIP

    If Corbyn does get into No.10 as a result of May’s treachery then this country is finished.

    This vile PM will go down in British political history as the most contemptuous and disgusting leader we have ever had

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

      Duncan, I and I am sure many others, totally agree with you. Ukip it is for me. I could never vote Labour but Ukip has values very close to those of true Tories. I would rather take my chances with them than vote for one of the main parties simply because they cannot be trusted.

  43. Mark B
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    So WTO it is then. Because the EU have made it perfectly clear, they will not offer a FTA until after we have left.

    I fear people are being deliberately mislead. They are being told that compromises will have to be made in order to get a FTA. If the EU believed that a FTA was more to their advantage then why are they not asking for one ?

  44. Ian wragg
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Listening to Gove this morning shows him to be a bigger lier than May.
    The single market and customs union have been rebadged as well as free movement of EU workers.
    Leaving the CFP means getting a small increase in quotas decided by Brussels.
    The mans a disgrace

  45. mickc
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    A Rubicon moment….Caesar won, May will not…

  46. Alan Joyce
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Dear Mr. Redwood,

    I suggested in my response to yesterday’s blog that, following the revelations of the Chequers summit, Brexiteer ministers would not dare show their faces in the tv studios for fear of being asked to defend the indefensible.

    I was wrong!

    There on the Andrew Marr Show this morning was the Secretary of State for the Environment, Food, Rural Affairs and Turd Polishing, Mr. Michael Gove.

    I thought he gave a very polished performance and left the studio having put quite a sheen on the Chequers summit declaration.

  47. The Prangwizard
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Andrew Bridgen has had the courage and principle to oppose the deal and say he has no confidence in the PM. Where are you Mr Redwood? Are you prepared to say the same? Or are you being cowed by the Whips Office, to say nothing until you have been through the re-education process. It is now time to be counted.

  48. Duyfken
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    The Brexiteers in the Cabinet have some explaining to do, and hopefully they will do so in early course despite being partly muzzled by Cabinet rules. Failing a proper and persuasive rationale for their agreeing May’s plan, they may well be one of the main casualties in the Brexit war as the Conservative grass roots lose all faith in them.

    • Duyfken
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:50 am | Permalink

      I see Gove has now spoken out – with a mealy-mouthed defence. Not good enough at all.

  49. Newmania
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Services will now have third country status
    Maximum economic damage to the UK
    Pass porting is lost,
    People in these industries have been sacrificed
    Those jobs will pay for this dream …..
    We leave the EU the single market and customs union ECJ
    We pay nothing
    We stop FOM – and yet choose immigrants we like
    Well exit the CAP and Fisheries Policies- and retain full market access to the EU for such products
    We be part of any European institution we pick , or not , as may suit us especially any security or foreign Policy sensitive agreement son as to retain global relevance

    We will do this by setting up , with the EU, a Free Trade area that only applies to EU bound goods ( um….. point of origin checks ..?) ..It will be backed by Treaties and mutual oversight on EU Standards that contribute directly to pricing .
    Ours will be equivalent and this will evolve , within this new EU/ UK Institution on a purely voluntary basis .
    The EU would also assist in a frictionless border
    ( No idea how that is supposed to work)
    We will stick with it on a day by day basis anyway

    Is this a joke ? I wond1`t waste too much time thinkign about it anyway …. never never never goingto happen for obvious reasons

  50. Annette
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    John,
    she lied. She’s lied to you and all democracy supporting MPs. She’s lied to the electorate & the House by omission of facts (must have had some EUBBC training).
    She would rather destroy the Conservative party than loosen the EU chains. No leaver will trust a word from ANYONE in the Cabinet again. We wanted to see leadership emerge, but saw none. The deception continued this morning with Gove insisting that this pig’s ear is what we voted for. They really do think that the people are that stupid.
    Unless the 1922 committee get ‘outside cabinet’ & brexiteers as leader options, the party is doomed. I would strongly suggest that the ERG declare themselves a party of conservatives (because the current party isn’t) or all represent UKIP en masse.
    The time for words and party before country is over. It is time to be more pro-active. The mood is getting ugly as people see that democracy no longer exists in this country.

  51. ian
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    Leave voters have been left high and dry with no party to vote for and the remain voters will not be happy with two main parties LAB/CON and will consider voting for the LIB DEMS as the real remain party, mission accomplished.

  52. Denis Cooper
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    On the Andrew Marr show this morning one James Forsyth suggested that this deal could be just an interim state and it could be followed by a more perfect Brexit 2.0.

    Well, I doubt that, because Airbus and JLR and other large and vocal exporters to the EU will still raise the same kind of fallacious self-serving objections and a future europhile UK government will cave into them just as this europhile UK government has done.

    According to the Tory party chairman Brendan Lewis on another programme production of goods make up 20% of our economy and as far as I could make out from what he was saying they are all exported to the EU, while somebody else was complaining that the 80% of our economy that we export to the EU as services will not be covered by the proposed deal. I admit to being puzzled because I understood that exports to the EU accounted for about 12% of our GDP, goods and services combined, not 20% and not 100%.

    Meanwhile Barry Gardiner explained elsewhere that we will have to align our regulations with those of any country with which we want a trade deal. Not just as far as concerns our exports to that country, but for our entire economy. Once again it’s a puzzle how we could potentially align our regulations with those of 160 plus countries around the world unless they all had the same regulations, but there you go, that is the kind of stupid tosh we have had from our eurocentric politicians for half a century now.

  53. Jacey
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    I am greatly puzzled that devotees of the EU rarely spend time considering the viability of this political construct. At its heart is the currency of the Euro. In order for the Euro to be viable in the medium term or possibly even in the short term will require financial reforms which there is not the political will to carry through ( particularly in Germany). If matters continue as they are there will surely be a crisis. If this occurs the damage could and probably will be enormous. Amidst all the acrimonious debate that is currently prevalent this is a matter that is hardly ever mentioned ( our host being a notable exception ). It is perhaps the elephant in the room yet its implications are enormous.

  54. I give in
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Ok I give in, lets have a second referendum, the question “do you REALLY want Brexit to mean Brexit?”

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

      I give in, Hahaha. Then we can have a third referendum, the question being: “Do you REALLY, REALLY want Brexit to mean Brexit?

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

      Yes. Another referendum, though it is profoundly unfair. Other than that I’m never voting again.

  55. Mike Wilson
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Looks like we need Nigel back leading UKIP and 17.4 million of us to vote for them next time. Is there NO WAY to get politicians to take note?

  56. Iain Gill
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    May must go

    Being an open liar is a bad look

    Otherwise may as well not bother putting any conservative candidates forward at the next general election

  57. Mike Wilson
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    So, it’s goodbye to the Conservative Party! I have always wondered how and when our two party political system would change. Now, we have it. We have a referendum where 17.4 million vote for the something and the Conservative Party, in a minority government, ignore the referendum result.

    Almost glad I’m old, won’t be around forever to see how this turns out and do not care that the next stop is Labour in power for as many decades as it takes for an alternative politics to emerge.

    None of which is relevant. Our real government is in Brussels. Shame we can never vote them out.

    • Nigel Seymour
      Posted July 9, 2018 at 5:45 am | Permalink

      Well summed up…

  58. Caterpillar
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Representation of the People A t 1918
    Ignore what the people say 2018.

  59. James neill
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Let’s just abandon this whole brexit project fuor this generation..it’s obvious we are not in any way prepared..better to ask the EU if we can stop or pause A50 notice with the chance to restart it again in say forty to fifty years time when the the people then will have had a good chance to debate the whole thing..advantages..disadvantages etc..etc

  60. C777
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    David Cameron, by allowing the referendum followed by May’s now blatantly obvious false promises to return sovereignty over our laws and practices by leaving the EU effectively shot the UKIP Fox, well I have some bad news for the Conservative party, unless May is gone, and soon, they’re back, only this time the Conservative electorate will not be swayed by false promises again, “fool me once, fool me twice?
    I don’t think many are being fooled any more, eh?.

  61. Nigel
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    What a sorry state of affairs that the UK is reliant for a major issue in its future on the activities and opinion of an unelected French bureaucrat.

    How pathetic our leadership has become after some 40 years of outsourcing political management to Brussels.

  62. mickc
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Classical references not acceptable…no matter how apposite…
    Well, we will see…

  63. margaret howard
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    ” I have also always said you do not have to pay to trade, so have never favoured offering the EU money by way of a withdrawal present”

    Oh really? Note last sentence:

    “The ‘Sick man of Europe’ was on the verge of collapse before it joined the European community. Industry was collapsing, interest rates were spiralling and inflation was rampant. You obviously can’t remember the food, fuel and power shortages of the Heath government or the steadily growing balance of payments deficit. The common market had to pump in 25% of its regional development funds to stabilise the nation, the highest ever figure.”
    Comment Daily Mail 15/5/2016

    Reply The UK’s economic problems in the 1970s occurred when we were a member of the EEC, not before we joined!

  64. ian
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    BRINGING IT HOME FOR ENGLAND, ENGLAND IS HOME.

  65. Edwardm
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Dr Redwood, I always find you to write with clarity, to be evidence based and loyal to the British people. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for too many MPs.

    In mild terms, I find Mrs May and Jeremy Corbyn in different ways both display a disdain for the British people.
    We need better.

  66. Sybil
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    Ah, now I understand – Brexit means WreckBrit.

  67. Andrew Fairfoull
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    “No deal is better than a bad deal’”
    Meaningless nonsense!! There will be a deal
    in the future with the EU, however we leave

  68. Horatio McSherry
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    John,

    Part of me thinks this is a chess move; knowing the EU will not accept it, and therefore TM can genuinely say to Remain voters that she tried her hardest, was more than generous, but the EU is an unmovable object, and therefore No Deal is the only and best option.

    The rest of me thinks this is the woman who produced the worst manifesto in the history of the Conservative Party thinking it was a winner…

    …assuming of course that she wanted to win the election.

  69. Ron Olden
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    I was under the impression that paying this money WAS conditional upon a deal. Why would we pay anything if we don’t get a deal we can agree?

    This money is actually the strongest UK Card in these negotiations. The money goes direct to the EU. Not to the EU countries individually. Without this money the EU will become insolvent almost immediately.

    And I can’t see any of the others being willing to bail it out. They’re having enough problems with their post 2020 budget as it is.

    Also given that this money is not legally due, it must surely have to be voted by Parliament. The Government isn’t empowered to just give £37 Billion to whoever it likes.

  70. Iain Gill
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    No water in rugby again

    Are we supposed to think this is acceptable?

    What is our supposed government doing about it

  71. Trudi Polsher
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Is what happened a new chapter to be added to Vilfredo Pareto’s “The Rise and Fall of the Elite”?

  72. Edward2
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Let us hope the EU reject this offer just as it has rejected every previous offer.
    Then we can simply leave their superstate and carry on as an independent free nation.
    Just like 160 other nations.
    Free to make our laws.
    Free to decide the terms of trade we want to have with our trading partners in the world.
    The sixth most powerful nation in the world.

  73. Strider
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    I believe the May fudge/sellout White Paper will be accepted by the EU because I believe they have been instrumental in creating it either in part or in whole. Recall the item about we being allowed to diverge from some E.U. strictures but that “there will be consequences”? This is something like Obama’s “back of the queue”. While there might be consequences, I don’t believe any sane composer of the script would have given such an encouragement to the other side. It smacks of collusion.

  74. Simon Coleman
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    ‘Nothing is agreed until all is agreed’. I think you missed the Northern Ireland border backstop agreement about 6 months ago. But that’s quite understandable…as you couldn’t give the proverbial monkey’s about that issue.

  75. Iain Gill
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    I suppose with Mays immigration in the tens of thousands lie she has got used to treating the public like idiots

    Gone too far this time

    Nobody I know will put up with this

    The people are not as stupid as she thinks

    If the politicians don’t kick her out quickly we are in uncharted territory

  76. Chris
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    Politicians often fall when they try to cover up things, in this case pretend that the plan/deal reached by Mrs May is not really going against all her red lines/against what Brexit means. No amount of spin is going to convince me and so many others that her deal is anything but a formula for a vassal state of the EU. It is a betrayal of Brexit and cannot be spun otherwise. Those individuals trying to spin this look like fools. Noone believes a word they say.

  77. mancunius
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    “the UK should make clear the money is not a firm promise.”

    The money is in the gift of Hammond and the Treasury. They will hand it over to the EU whenever they want to. They will not inform Parliament until some MP thinks to ask a question about it. Then Hammond will say that the money became due to the EU on the date of ratification of the Withdrawal Bill, naturally.

    The Treasury has form in this – a payment OK’d by Labour sent days immediately after Labour had lost the 2010 General Election, and a later large controversial payment questioned in the HoC, whose exact date and details slip my mind just now.

  78. Brit
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    I suppose I’m not alone on here when I say that I am feeling very sad for our country.
    Those in power will not recognise the simple X they have meanly allowed us in the Referendum which they themselves authorised after hundreds of years of “democracy.”
    In days of yore, we were but pawns politely speaking, or more like cattle to be slaughtered or fed well enough, depending on their desire. Not even a simple X in Two Thousand and Sixteen AD are they willing to honour. They should try F if there is a next time as it is the only letter they do.

  79. ian
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    Trade bill coming up soon, big business still pushing to stay in the customs union and will be rallying all their members in the lords and commons to make sure they get it through parliament, I am expecting more tory rebels to come out of the woodwork because as far as they can see from the white paper, it gov policy or near as.

  80. Fred Flintstone
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Gove creeeping up from behind and backing Mrs May has surprised us all.

  81. Everyone RESIGN
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    David Davis resigns, now lets see everyone follow suit.

  82. Dennis Zoff
    Posted July 8, 2018 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    David Davis resigns as Brexit secretary…..

    “Now is the Time for All Good Brexit Men to Come to the Aid of their Country.”

  83. Pragmatist
    Posted July 9, 2018 at 12:02 am | Permalink

    With David Davis’ resignation the position of the next Brexit Secretary is hanging in the air.

  84. Dennis Zoff
    Posted July 9, 2018 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    John, is there no honour in your profession?

    Michael Gove on May’a latest Brexit proposal: Did we vote for this, he was asked.
    “Yes! Unequivocally.”

    Clearly, Gove is now doing the rounds trying to spin T. May’s delusive Brexit fudge to the populace, with his disingenuous backstabbing unflappable smoothness?

    A passage from Animal Farm springs to mind. page 57

    “Afterwards Squealer made a round of the farm to set the animals’ mind at rest. He assured them….It was pure imagination…A few animals still felt faintly doubtful, but Squealer asked them shrewdly, “Are you certain this is not something you have dreamed, comrades?”

    There are no words for this despicable treachery!

  85. mancunius
    Posted July 9, 2018 at 1:29 am | Permalink

    Good to see David Davis, Suella Braverman and Steve Baker have all resigned. It was the honourable thing to do. I noted that David Davis in his letter says it was TM – against DD’s advice – who agreed to the EU’s harmful ‘sequencing’ (which contradicts the clear intentions of Art. 50) and to the equally harmful wording of Art. 49 and 50 in the December Joint Agreement.
    One wonders – does one not? – why a PM would concede so readily in such vital matters that limit our sovereignty…
    It is too much to hope that the resignation of Oliver Robbins, Jeremy Heywood will swiftly follow?

    • Steve
      Posted July 9, 2018 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

      “One wonders – does one not? – why a PM would concede so readily in such vital matters that limit our sovereignty”

      The answer to that is simple;

      This particular PM is a liberal sissy and someone who actually despises the country, and is consequently a traitor and an enemy of the state.

      I’m just gobsmacked she wasn’t got rid of sooner. But I do hope she’s gone ASAP, within the next 24 hours hopefully.

      I’ll be voting UKIP in future.

  86. Alison
    Posted July 9, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Dear Dr Redwood, my deep apologies for misreading your first sentence. I am so sorry. It was not deliberate, it was stupid – but hurrying … Please do forgive me! Never did I doubt your integrity. I was puzzled though.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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