The EU is no bowl of cherries

Mr Tusk’s dismissive treatment of the Prime Minister was not the action of a peacemaker who wants to bring the two sides closer together. It reveals that the EU has little self knowledge, and no knowledge of how others see it. It is because the EU is no bowl of cherries that many of us wish to go. There are no cherries to pick.

As to cake, we have to pay for our own and pay for cake for other countries  too whilst an EU member. I look forward to us paying just for our own cake, and making more of it at home. That way we can have better cake and more prosperity. At least Mr Tusk has just made it a whole lot easier for us to leave without a Withdrawal Agreement.

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161 Comments

  1. ChrisS
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    Downing Street Statement

    At last we have seen the Prime Minister standing up for the Country and adding some grit and realism into the discussions with the EU. Her strident tone reminded me of one of her illustrious predecessors, all that was missing was the handbag.

    Mrs May has every right to be angry with the way she was treated yesterday, but that anger also needs to be directed at her own advisers who developed the Chequers Plan behind the back of David Davis and his department and continued to push it when Barnier had said repeatedly in public that it would not fly.

    Chequers is clearly dead. Politically she can’t come out and say so, but by demanding that the EU side come up with an alternative proposal that meets her Red Lines and is therefore acceptable to the UK, she has in effect ditched it. About time.

    • ChrisS
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

      PS – She might just have saved her Premiership, at least for the period until after the party conference.

      • ChrisS
        Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

        Could I politely enquire why my post is still awaiting moderation, even though it was submitted more than 2 hours before any of the ones you have published ?

        It is not the longest, that honour goes to Steve, and his contribution was sent in more than four hours later than mine.

        Do my posts automatically get pushed to the back of the queue?

      • stred
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 9:02 am | Permalink

        Saved by sounding like a whimpering child when daddy says she can’t have her favourite type of dolly, as suggested by her nanny.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

      Some Remain journalists such as Juliet Samuel are “shocked” by the behaviour of the EU.

      So after two years of sneering a Brexiteers they have only just found out what the EU is really like.

    • Peter
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

      Mrs. May is in a huff. Perhaps the EU strung her along in the same way as she strung David Davis and his team along earlier in the year?

      Perhaps there is a ‘Potemkin village’ in the EU bureaucracy tasked with reassuring the nation’s politicians and offering empty promises?

      Meanwhile, the Daily Express has a headline proclaiming that May’s latest broadcast is her ‘FINEST HOUR’ ( note the use of capitals). News turned into click bait. Readers will ponder if this is her finest hour it does not say much her career to date.

      • a-tracy
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 9:53 am | Permalink

        ‘Finest Hour’ I’m upset that a woman prime minister allowed herself to be bullied and ridiculed in such a way and didn’t stand up for the UK people instead of just slinking away and getting someone else to write her a speech to excuse her weakness on the day.
        If she couldn’t see that ‘cake photo opportunity’ coming then she is just the puppet I thought she was when the Conservative MPs elected her their leader and then she ran a stupid election campaign losing good Conservative MPs their seats. I’d have had a jar of cherries in my handbag ready to stick on the top. Wearing red when they all collectively wore blue and setting up isolated photo ops to trigger the ‘stay’ community in the UK was a good play. There is nothing most people hate more than being excluded in this way from a group and it is the worst form of bullying that goes unpunished at school, college, universities and the workplace and is a very useful tool for passive aggressive buillies who like to bring down strong people or nations in this case.
        Frankly John if we can’t get organised and stand up to this and tell the DUP it make your mind up time, then we’re just being backed into a corner.

        As for Labour they’re talking out of both sides of their mouth, Keir is all pro-Eu Labour want to remain. Second vote etc. Goodness knows what Corbyn wants to do, he can’t stay in the Single Market and Customs Union the leaflet that went to all our homes told everyone that and the EU have just confirmed it, yet McDonnell is saying they don’t want what Keir say they do, they are disingenuous too.
        Our politicians are a let down, JRM or yourself should have been given David Davis job, someone with lots of experience, maturity and frankly a deep seated will for this to succeed.

  2. Zorro
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    This is going the way many of us thought that it would……

    One word – Greece…… That tells you all you need to know about how the EU ‘negotiates’ with others. It doesn’t, it bullies and imposes its will through threats. Hopefully, even T May will have had enough of being used/abused/patronised…. Surely even she must recoil at being treated with contempt. What does she think that she will gain…? A job over there? Dream on, she should for once stand up and set the conditions. I really think that it is pointless talking with them anymore. We must ‘sue’ them for a sensible exit. Inform them that they are obliged to act in accordance with A8 TEU, and should not be threatening to wage economic war/blockades and work towards reducing barriers with all….

    And yes as I always say – TURN THE TAP OFF – no leaving present – no nothing

    Zorro

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

      Correct Zorro – The EU has form but its supporters in the UK will not see it.

      Doctrinal supplicants

  3. Richard1
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    I’m afraid Conservative MPs need to recognise that mrs May is not up to the job of PM & there will never be a satisfactory Brexit deal with her in post. Maybe the Gove strategy is right – just sign up for whatever can be agreed, limp out and then re-negotiate, but I can’t see it. Unfortunately Mrs May appears to have an obstinate streak as well – as we saw from her conduct before the election, over the absurd manifesto with its soc dem interventionism, over issues such as overseas students. So I fear she won’t have the sense to recognise that she has had terrible advice from the civil service, change tack and go for Canada+ (or WTO if that can’t be agreed). If the view is we won’t be able to extricate ourselves from a bad deal after Brexit, then its time for the men in grey suits to pay her a friendly visit.

    Remember, we can’t possibly fight another election with Mrs May as leader, so the change is going to have to be made at some point soon. labour are presumably pushing for a quick election in order to ensure that the Conservatives are still fielding the hapless mrs May.

  4. hardlyever
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    President Tusk has been saying that for two years now but government hasn’t been listening..remember his ‘salt and vinegar’..then when he tries a little English humour yesterday Boris style..a cake with the absent cherry.. we get all upset. His job is not to bring two sides together- it is to hold the line on the remaining 27 and keep them in check. So now we know- cherrypicking will not be allowed..so we might get a FTA or else it’s to WTO rules with or without a divorce agreement but bear in mind we will still have to return to Free Trade like Canada plus plus at some stage and then the departure conditions will first have to be completed..remember also that the Irish Border will have to be faced up to too..it’s not going to go away.

  5. Ian wragg
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Treacherous May doesn’t agree
    She’s still pushing the Chequers paper as if nothing has changed.
    There must be a medical name for it.

    • Ian wragg
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

      This once great country humiliated by a bunch of third rate commies and aided by the traitorous May.

      • maybyso
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

        Ian Wragg..it’s all in your mind- too many of us are still living in the 19th century with notions of empire- and that is what has us in this present trouble- am afraid that the world has moved on

        • libertarian
          Posted September 22, 2018 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

          maybyso

          The world has indeed moved on, the UK is at the forefront of that new paradigm too. Meanwhile the EU is busy trying to shut down the internet in Europe. Laughably out of date, backward looking, mercantilist 18th century European nonsense . The EU as presently run has no long term future. The UK leaving and trading on a global basis is the way forward .

    • stred
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 9:06 am | Permalink

      Chequeritis?

  6. Nigel
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    She should have taken the £39 bn off the table today.

  7. Harry
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    The UK has treated the EU with nothing but respect- not so- just look at the abuse and disrespect shown over the years in the EU parliament by Farage and Tory MEPs..not to mention the low side gutter tabloids..just for a start

    • libertarian
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

      Harry

      The fact that you and the EU do not understand the concept of democracy is your problem and the reason we are leaving. A parliament with no opposition isn’t a parliament its a prop to dictatorship .

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

      “The UK has treated the EU with nothing but respect.” That was not what was said.

  8. Roy Grainger
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Tusk and co wring their hands and express outrage at Donald Trump’s crude Twitter diplomacy and then do exactly the same themselves (albeit using Instagram). It is wholly improper for civil servants like them to do so and they should be disciplined.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

      Roy

      Indeed and when Trump implements a protectionist regime the EU and their “liberal” apologists all scream and cry. Then they go back to demanding a protectionist customs union for 27 countries. Hypocrisy of the highest order

  9. Anonymous
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Nor is the EU a known quantity. It has morphed and changed name many times without putting this to the people of Britain.

    It is not the status quo. Massive upheavels lay ahead.

  10. Dave Andrews
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    I really don’t see the problem about “cherry-picking”. When making a deal, there are things I want that you have, and there are things I have that you want. We negotiate to arrive at a mutually agreeable result, and both leave satisfied.
    After all, if I go into an electrical store to buy a TV, I don’t expect to be told that I have to buy a washing machine, oven, kettle and everything else the store has. No one is going to tell me that I’m cherry-picking because I only want a TV.

    • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

      @Dave Andrews: Fair comment, but due your own red lines which the EU27 want to respect the shop only sells the Canada option (if you insist on a transition, there is the Norway option which doesn’t yet fit all your red lines but will give you some respite)

    • StanleyW
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

      Well you won’t get to buy very much if you’re told you’re not welcome in the shop..when the shop keeper says you can keep your money and shop elsewhere

  11. Bob
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    “Tusk has just made it a whole lot easier for us to leave without a Withdrawal Agreement.”

    The British Establishment (you know, the ones that put Remainers in charge of Brexit) will not allow that to happen, BRINO is their solution to the matter, which will mean tying us in with non-regression clauses.

  12. hefner
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    R.E.S.P.E.C.T. from Aretha May?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 5:00 am | Permalink

      Respect has to be earned not merely demanded.

      • Helen Smith
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 11:01 am | Permalink

        Considering we are the EU’s second largest contributor, the provider of the bulk of its fishing waters, intelligence and defence capability I think that respect has been earned, don’t you?

  13. Norman
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    “The EU has little self knowledge, and no knowledge of how others see it”.
    Very perceptive, John, and I agree. However, I suspect they probably think the same about us! But the British sense of humour, with its self deprecation, is a good sign in our favour. It is also an attribute of true freedom, under grace.

  14. Peter
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    I do not pay much attention to Instagram, tweets etc. Mr. Trump is routinely rude via these modern channels. That is politics today.

    Whether such slights can be mobilised against the EU is questionable. Many people will dismiss that sort of thing as small potatoes.

    I was more interested in Mrs. May’s briefing today. She talks about ‘respect’ and ‘what is not acceptable’. If you believe the whole outcome is already decided it would be an opportunity for EU to climb down on the Irish border. May could then claim success, church bells would have ring throughout the land and we would all live happily ever after.

    I don’t believe it has all been plotted in advance though.

    So WTO might be her only face saving option. Remain then have the problem of how to prevent that.

    I do not know, of course. Pure speculation on my part.

  15. BretW
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    James O’Brien is correct when he says that TM is effectively saying to the EU – ‘yes this is our mess now you go clean it up’

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

      I’d love to hear JRM or John Redwood up against J O’B.

    • Peter
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

      I heard James O’Brien on the car radio the other day. He is(silly? ed) He promised he would destroy the Brexit arguments of Jacob Rees Mogg later in the programme and arbitrarily cut callers off. The most bizarre few minutes was his virtue signalling on behalf of abortion clinics. Apparently he wants an exclusion zone around them in case of protests. I switched over shortly after this.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 2:58 am | Permalink

      I do not think I have ever heard James O’Brien say anything sensible on any subject ever. He is always talks complete drivel on his LBC slot. He is a typical, daft as a brush, lefty, a public school boy (then politics and economics at the LSE). But clearly he has no grasp at all of either subject.

  16. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    Put Snow White in the boxing ring with Joe Frazier and what do you expect to happen?
    The very fact she’s now complaining of disrespect shows she still doesn’t get it.

  17. Chris
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood, I cannot believe that May is still stubbornly holding out for Chequers, according to James Brokenshire. Who does he genuinely believe that Chequers represents? It is certainly not those who voted to Leave the EU. Chequers is a clear betrayal, and he, by advocating it, is part of that betrayal.
    Excerpt below from “Lunchtime espresso from Coffeehouse/Spectator:

    “May ally: Chequers still on
    Theresa May’s Chequers plan is still ‘credible’ – despite the EU saying it will not work, a cabinet minister has insisted. James Brokenshire said the onus was on Brussels to ‘be specific’ about its concerns and that Chequers remains a viable option. Brokenshire told the Today programme: ‘The Chequers deal is a workable, credible deal to meet our ambitions.’….”

  18. VotedOut
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    Our PM is very angry – and rightly so.

    Now, hopefully every one sees what we are dealing with.

    We must leave on WTO terms. £38billion will help the UK through the bumps. If the EU wants an FTA talk about it then, not before.

    When they do, make sure they bring us some cake – with cherries!

    • AdamC
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

      Mrs May made a few mistakes yesterday, first of all she threatened them with chequers deal or nothing at all..then at another time she let slip that the withdrawal agreement statement about the irish border was kicked out into december or further..things took a down turn after that..not the fault of the EU they are only minding their own side. My guess is we will crash out and be left outside for a good few years now without FTA until we come to our senses..nothing to do with cake or cherries

  19. Adam
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Europe was a fine place. The EU crowd mixed & muddled it.
    Mr Tusk represents the unwanted elephant in the room.
    He should pack his trunk for the circus & go elsewhere.
    Even so, his careless words should not bother us.
    We can Leave, & leave them to their own mess.
    Someone better than Theresa May should control our Exit.
    Then exit will be the start of excitement, & happiness in freedom.

  20. mancunius
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    To make the very best of the opportunity to reset the UK economy, the government should declare that we shall engage in Unilateral Free Trade from the end of March. It would be a bold and adventurous move, that would need to be offset by direct grants for agri and other carefully selected sensitive areas.
    It would have the minor secondary advantage of annoying the EU, even more than not getting £39bn out of us, as it dawns on them how much more than £39bn our future trade course will cost them.

  21. ukretired123
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Well said Mr Redwood!
    Kindness is seen as a sign of weakness by the EU.
    Never has anyone ever challenged their arrogance from within and succeeded until now. Fool me once now applies…

  22. Lifelogic
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Indeed who would want to be a member of a club with people like Mr Tusk managing it? He is not even acting in the interest of the 27.

    Alas Theresa May does it seems still persisting with her Chequers, non Brexit. With none of the many advantages of leaving.

    We have plenty of nice cherries in Kent. We also have superior English apples currently, but loads of farms have been grubbed up since we joined the EU. Supermarkets generally still selling nasty six months or even 12 month old ones though.

  23. Andy
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    The EU has been perfectly consistent. It is not prepared to compromise Margaret Thatcher’s single market to appease angry and ill-informed Brits. And why should it?

    Brexiteers have not yet realised that they have a highly unpalatable choice to make. You either destroy our economy or you destroy our Union or you capitulate.

    That’s the choice for you all. Governing is choosing. Pick one.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      So why not a deal like the EU agreed with Canada?
      Easy trade, no fees paid by either side, no open borders, no legal supremacy by either nation.

      • Andy
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 7:15 am | Permalink

        Pick a Canada deal then. It means significant frictions to trade (remember is abolishes most tariffs not all non-tariff barriers or checks). It also means a hard border with Ireland or a border down the Irish Sea. Will you tell the DUP that’s what you’ve decided?

        • Edward2
          Posted September 22, 2018 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

          Depends what you mean by a hard border andy.
          There is a border there now.
          The UK sees no need for any more border controls.
          But if the EU wants to build a wall then get on with it.
          And why is paying a tariff a friction?
          Tariffs are paid electronically as part of the manifest documents that you use already when exporting to non EU nations every day all over the world right now.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      Absolutely right.

      The EU has been up front and consistent. Its our remain politicians and peoples vote crowd who have been trying to stay half in half out. We have one perfectly straightforward and acceptable to all sides options. Leave, trade WTO THEN negotiate a third country FTA . This is what Brexiteers voted for and its what we want

      • Andy
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 7:17 am | Permalink

        It might be what some of the dimmer Brexiteers voted for. But most are not nearly so stupid.

        • Edward2
          Posted September 22, 2018 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

          Both leave and remain campaigns agreed on one thing, that leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union and the single market.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 22, 2018 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          Lol, most of us run successful business though Andy despite being so dumb. You on the other hand had to sack 30 people because you couldn’t manage….. hmm makes you think doesn’t it.

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted September 23, 2018 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

            libertarian

            Andy has shown no intelligent thought process, via his comments, that demonstrates good business acumen?

            I rather believe he is telling little porkies, or simply does not understand business….assuming he even has a business? If he indeed does, he must be a “dream manager” to work for!

  24. Nigel E
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Until his recent statement, I had though that Tusk was one of the more measured and sensible of the EU presidents and negotiators. But he seems to have fallen in line with the rest who proclaim ‘not good enough’, ‘will not work’, ‘unicorns & magical thinking’. Perhaps they’ve been re-reading the Harry Potter books.

    Do not our Remain-focussed politicians and ‘leaders’ not ask themselves: “How can we possibly get a deal with these people?” The answer is of course, that unless we agree to the basic principles of the EU (single market, four freedoms, customs union, oversight by ECJ) we CANNOT get the deal TM is seeking.

    I agree it makes leaving without a Withdrawing Agreement more likely. Although I have reservations – why exactly can we not negotiate an FTA now? – this is probably the best way to go.

    I doubt whether Team TM have the courage to see this, let alone follow this path.

    Yours in gloom ….

  25. Edward2
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Tusk is a classic example of EU top management.
    Another failed national politician voted out by home nation voters grabbing power in the EU where the voters cannot get at them.
    I listened to our PM today and she spoke well and seemed very cross as if finally a penny had dropped.

    • mancunius
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

      The penny dropping is presumably her realizing that Robbins and Merkel led her up the garden path.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 3:06 am | Permalink

      Let us hope the penny has finally dropped over Brexit. She (and Robbins) have been very stupid indeed with their negotiation strategy so far. Even deceitfully going behind the backs of her pro real Brexit ministers.

      All we need now is for the pennies to drop on her many other totally misguided policies. Housing, economics, taxation levels, her anti-business agenda, anti-gig economy, her interventionism, her climate alarmism, HS2, the appalling NHS, the gender pay gap drivel, her socialist bloated government knows best agenda on everything.

  26. Know-Dice
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Simples… In the EU…

    19 countries eat their own cherries and some of other countries cherries.

    9 countries [including the UK] are not even allowed to eat their own cherries…

  27. Gary C
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Re: At least Mr Tusk has just made it a whole lot easier for us to leave without a Withdrawal Agreement.

    I do hope your right.

  28. DaveM
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Is it possible that the PM has finally realised that these people are not our friends?

    • Bob
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

      No, it’s all choreographed and will end with a Chequers +++ deal.

  29. Kenneth
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    The eu negotiating position has been greatly helped by the remarkable unity from its member states.

    The few leaks and off-piste briefings have been ignored or given a light touch by a largely sympathetic media.

    This is reminiscent of the Politburo. As there are few democratic pressures that get in the way, internal debate can be kept internal.

    By contrast, we are an open democracy where everyone gets their chance to put in their twopenneth-worth.

    The downside is that, as John points out, the Politburo becomes isolated and arrogant. This will be their undoing.

    Eventually, democratic pressures which still exist within member states will come to the fore….but it may be too late.

  30. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Well, I saw that particular episode in a humorous light. But Theresa May has left it a bit late to notice that the eurocrats are not reciprocating the respect she shows them.

    She could have reacted back in August when Michel Barnier announced that even though we had been doing it for forty-five years he would not trust us to collect customs duties on behalf of the EU:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/07/27/spending-the-39-bn-cutting-taxes-on-transactions/#comment-950570

    “He could have just said that the scheme proposed by the UK was complex and may not be workable, and in any case he found it hard to see the point of it, but instead he chose to emphasise that as a non-member the UK

    “would not be subject to the EU’s governance structures”

    and so presumably could not be trusted to perform the agreed task properly.”

    And she could have reacted earlier this week to Michel Barnier’s arrogant presumption that the EU should continue to control what goods could be imported into Northern Ireland even after the UK had left the EU:

    https://news.sky.com/story/michel-barniers-hints-at-a-compromise-are-music-to-theresa-mays-ears-11501947

    “We are clarifying which goods arriving in Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK would need to be checked and where, when and by whom these checks could be performed.”

  31. Peter Divey
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Hard Brexit, No Deal…whatever it is called…is exactly what i voted for.

    • Brigham
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 5:20 am | Permalink

      Me too

  32. allinall
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Better cake and more prosperity- I’ll believe it when I see it- 350Million extra per week for the NHS would do me for the moment

    • mancunius
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      Oh? And what’s wrong with you that needs such expensive treatment?

    • Glenn Vaughan
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

      I sincerely hope this country won’t be wasting £350 million a week extra on the NHS.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted September 23, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

      allinall

      On the side of the Bus….

      “We sent the EU £350m a week, let’s find our NHS instead”

      …where does it say all of the £350m will be exclusively used for NHS?

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted September 23, 2018 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

        Correction “We send the EU £350m a week, let’s find our NHS instead”

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted September 23, 2018 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

          2nd Correction

          “We send the EU £350m a week, let’s fund our NHS instead”

          … it has been a long day!

  33. MickN
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    39 Billion pounds will buy a lot of cherries. As much as I detest rudeness perhaps Mrs May can ask Ollie Robbins what just happened. I am sure that was not in his script.

    • Peter Divey
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

      Too funny…

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

      Ollie Robbins used to work for Tony Blair.

  34. Philip
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    Any problems are all the UK’s fault. We Belgians did not vote to expel you, you did it to yourself. Off you go, enjoy your imperialist fantasy, youll soon find out Britannia no longer rules the waves. Goodbye.
    Ps how many trade deals agreed yet? Zero? Thought so

    • Elvis junior
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

      Prod us a bit more and you’ll have to provide your own intelligence and defence in future. We can’t sign any trade deals until we leave the EU but they are being lined up.

    • mancunius
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

      Have a Nice Day! 🙂

    • libertarian
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

      Philip

      Oh dear oh dear oh dear…. Ignorance is not a pretty sight. You are only about a year or so behind the curve All your remain mates here learnt long ago that while we are still IN the EU we can’t negotiate trade agreements. Why are EU fans all so ignorant of their own rules. Meanwhile make use of this forum while you can. Your beloved EU has just decided to remove the 27 EU countries from the internet

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

      With utmost respect, Phillip, it is Remainers in the UK which have tried to keep us in the EU which created the problems, not leaving itself. This is an important distinction.

      Euroscepticism is now mainstream in the EU and you have far greater problems with extremism than we do.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

        Anonymous

        “Euroscepticism is now mainstream in the EU”

        Name me ONE country that hasn’t voted in pro EU governments in their latest elections. Even Greece did.

        And unlike the UK PM none have had to pay a £1b bribe for ten votes of an unpleasant party to keep herself and her party in power

        • Edward2
          Posted September 23, 2018 at 8:18 am | Permalink

          You have an odd take on recent elections to not see the rise of anti EU parties throughout Europe.
          From Hungary to Germany to Sweden to Spain.
          Populist I think pro EU fanatics call them.
          All over Europe minor parties get extra funding to help bolster their support in order to create coalitions.

    • Glenn Vaughan
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

      Apart from chocolate and some paintings we should all be eternally grateful to Belgium for giving us Tintin and the Smurfs.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 10:48 am | Permalink

        Belgium. The buffer state which is clearly no longer needed so could be split between Germany and France for administrative simplicity.

  35. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Quite. Mr Tusk has confirmed why we voted to leave the anti-democratic EU protectionist club and were right to so do.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 3:16 am | Permalink

      Exactly.

  36. Student
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    If Theresa May is smart she will use this blatant disregard and humiliation to galvanise public opinion against the EU and toward WTO, thereby making a no deal scenario much more popular amongst the electorate and simultaneously strengthening her negotiating position by making no deal realistic.

    • Paul H
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

      TM is not smart, unfortunately. Not in the savviness needed to deal with the Brussels mafia.

    • Bob
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

      “If Theresa May is smart she will use this blatant disregard and humiliation to galvanise public opinion against the EU”

      You’re forgetting one crucial point, she’s a Remainer.
      Her loyalty lies with Brussels not Britain.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 3:14 am | Permalink

      “If Theresa May is smart” – I think we can safely say she is not remotely smart. She is a wrong headed lefty on almost everything she utters or does. She even appointed & retains Hammond as Chancellor.

      She even lied to the nation that we had control of our borders while within the EU through being out of Schengen.

  37. John of Enfield
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Do I detect a seething anger with these unelected bureaucrats?
    Blatant attempts to interfere with the internal politics of the U.K. a determination to impose the rule of the ECJ on an independent country are outrageous. And to treat a great country with such contempt deserves the strongest possible reaction.

    • margaret howard
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

      Since when do we elect our civil servants? Or our house of lords, head of state, establishment etc?

      • Edward2
        Posted September 23, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

        None you list actually make our laws.

  38. Cynic
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Indeed, the Eurocrats are out of touch with public opinion in mainland Europe, and totally misunderstanding of public opinion in Britain.
    Perhaps they think that if they take the negotiations to the wire the UK will be desperate enough to accept any deal that they offer.

  39. Caterpillar
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    … except Mrs May and many other MPs and Lords refuse to accept no deal and democracy. With the LDs wanting to remain and Labour wanting to be in the/a CU, the total disregard for democracy will continue.

    WRT to the NI border, the UK is free to do what it wants for openness, it is the Republic that cannot.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

      Also looking forward to Dr Fox publishing tariff schedule, presumably zero on components and higher on cars (dependent on spec’n). Also zero on some food types. Presumably Mr Hammond will be looking to match the Irish corporate tax rate.

  40. margaret howard
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    ” It reveals that the EU has little self knowledge, and no knowledge of how others see it.”
    ==

    That’s because the EU is not an entity but a trading bloc of 28 independent nations who came together to trade among themselves and set standards to be adhered to by all members.

    The UK is the one letting the EU down by kwitting. If I decided to give up my insurance policy I would expect the company to follow its procedures and not trying to make things easy for me.

    As for criticising the EU for its supposed treatment of the PM, that’s as nothing compared to how she has been treated by her own cabinet who have undermined her constantly, mostly behind her back. Not to mention the media.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

      margaret howard

      ” If I decided to give up my insurance policy I would expect the company to follow its procedures and not trying to make things easy for me.”

      I love lefties, reality never enters their heads.

      I just cancelled an insurance policy , they spent ages offering me discounts, special deals and alternative products in order to keep my business.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

        Why did you want to leave them in the first place? If they can now afford to offer all those goodies they must have overcharged you in the first place.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 23, 2018 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

          margaret howard

          By jove I think she’s got it. Exactly margaret, the EU “overcharged us” now they need to keep our business ( money) so they are trying to broker deals to get their hands on £39 billion…… But we’re fed up being ripped off, so we’re leaving and going to the nice folks at WTO , they dont charge a penny either…. brilliant hey

  41. Alan Jutson
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Was it really a surprise ?

    Has Mrs May at last just realised that the EU are not really our friends.

    The EU simply want our money, and wish to retain control over us so they can sell us their products, they would also like use of our intelligence organisations, our armed forces and our fishing grounds.

    Chequers is dead, or at least should be, it always was a huge mistake, now time to wake up, withdraw everything from the table, implement WTO terms, publish the tariffs then sit back.

    Business then knows where its going.

    If the EU then want to talk to us about something different, then do it under our terms.

    We are for goodness sake the 5th largest trading Nation in the World, we are the 9th Largest manufacturer in the World, time we acted like it !

  42. Dennis Zoff
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    What do they disrespect most….T. May or UK….most certainly both, probably!

  43. oldtimer
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Agreed.

  44. John Hatfield
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    The real problem is not the Prime Minister, it is those who control her, starting with Philip Hammond and the Treasury etc then moving on to the Tory corporate sponsors who all have a feather in the EU nest.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

      Perhaps Tony Blair controlling her via Ollie Robbins too.

  45. allinall
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Truth is the EU is not too concerned with the inner workings of the British referendum result- as a club they can only deal with the UK government and about what it wants. And up to now it hasn’t been very clear about what the government wants..kinda half in half out stuff
    but keeping all of the red lines in place while at the same time kicking the Irish border problem down the road into December and further if possible..well am afraid none of this is going to work..and what we see now is just reality catching up

    • mancunius
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

      Ah, yet another multi-ID. But the usual nonsense.

  46. Edwardm
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Well said.

    Negotiations are now simple:
    WTO terms
    We’ll arrange our side of NI border
    Our fishing waters are ours
    We support NATO
    You owe us Blair’s payments for CAP reform that wasn’t delivered.
    Good day.

  47. Jagman84
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    May still has the cart before the horse. We voted to leave the EU, not renegotiate our relationship with them. That was Cameron’s bright idea! Out of the EU please, then see what they have to say for themselves. We do not need a ‘deal’ or their permission to exit. We have followed Article 50, to the letter, out of courtesy. They saw this as a way of extracting even more money for an extended time. Offering £39bn for nothing of substance is typical of this weak and ineffectual PM.

  48. Open Minded
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    This is insanity. Make it at home, rather than trade? Did you never read Adam Smith? You do not even understand what it is to be a Conservative. How has the party of MacMillan, Heath and Thatcher fallen to crabbed ideologues and xenephobes like you and Rees Mogg?

    • Peter Divey
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      You seem anything but…open minded.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

      The Conservatives are actually a socialist movement now.

    • David Price
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      The EU clearly don’t want to trade, their first priority has been to extort money.

  49. George Dunnett
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Mr Tusk has inadvertently reinforced the Brexiteers’ desire to leave and leave ASAP.

    Moreover, it has given those tens of thousands of wavering remainers a sneak preview of life within an increasingly authoritarian EU superstate and has hopefully given them pause for thought.

    As for those hardliners who still dream for the U.K. to remain in this beaurocratic quagmire. My best advice to you all is to think about emmigrating! It will be a win-win for both the EU and U.K.!

  50. John Miller
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    I can’t be bothered to look it up, but I wonder if Merkel can say to BMW, Mercedes or Audi, “No more sales to Britain until I say so” and stop x million euros of profit to the big 3.

    The trouble with dealing with unelected dictators is that they confuse unelected with unaccountable. If you’re a human being, you’re always accountable to someone.

    • Juergen
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 6:22 am | Permalink

      She not only can, she has. And they have said – fine, the EU single market matters more to us than the Brits. Youre making a hell of a mistake if you think German carmakers are going to help you out of tbe hole youre digging yourself into

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

        Juergen

        You make an interesting comment….can you please direct me to where it is written that Merkel made such an official statement, as I can’t find any information with regards to your claim?

        …or are you telling little porkies?

      • libertarian
        Posted September 23, 2018 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

        Juergen

        Just making it up is silly.

        BMW, Mercedes & VW have NOT been told not to sell us cars . For a start The UK is is the biggest export market by unit sales and the second-biggest in cash value for German car markets, on top of the heavy fines for fraud of emissions and an impending trade war with the US, failure to sell us cars would be catastrophic for the German economy .

        We dont need German car makers, we can buy Jaguars, Aston Martins, Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans etc

        Quote from A Senior German car maker . The executive, who asked not to be identified because of the subject’s sensitivity, said Brexit looks increasingly likely to be “a disaster” for German auto manufacturers.

  51. DUNCAN
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry but I’m not taken in by today’s events. It all feels very orchestrated, pre-conceived and designed to lull Eurosceptics into a full sense of security

    The EU and this PM are in cahoots. They have their plan and anti-EU MPs must be keen to the propaganda being used by pro-EU players like May, Tusk and Merkel.

    My starting point is simple. This PM is not too be trusted. She’s shown herself to be deeply untrustworthy and today’s farce is an attempt to pacify anti-EU Tory backbenchers

    I wouldn’t trust this PM if she was the last person on earth.

    • Elvis junior
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

      Plus 1. Judge her by her actions. She is a pathological liar.

    • Iago
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

      Completely agree, Duncan, and the credulousness of some of the comments here today dismays me.

  52. Christine
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    Yet again, she stands up defiant speaking strong words. She’s just waiting for the party conference to be over before giving more concessions. I don’t believe a word she says. How can anyone still think we should stay in this dreadful club?

  53. acorn
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    The bit that knocks me out in this leaving the EU thing is:

    (1) The UK is voluntarily leaving the EU Club.

    (2) The EU club is not throwing the UK out of the EU Club

    (3) Why would the EU Club hence be required to offer anything at all, as a leaving present to the UK? Article 50 offers nothing tangible, only a loose promise of a possible future relationship?

    (4) How many clubs have you resigned from, where you insisted, and got, that Club to change its rules, so you could continue to benefit as a member of that Club; without actually being a paying member of that Club?

    (5) The most ludicrous bit of the process for me is, why the EU Club, is actually bothering to negotiate anything for the leaving of the UK at all? The only thing the UK has to offer is a large current account deficit. That is preventing a sizeable portion of EU unemployment; but, will be dependent on the Pound Sterling exchange rate post Brexit.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

      It is a very odd club.
      28 members and all get a vote, yet only nine pay anything in.
      The rest just take money out.

    • Mark B
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

      (1) We know. Just ask 17.4 million others.

      (2) They cannot even if they wanted to.

      (3) Art.50 only states that the EU and the country leaving are required to negotiate a future relationship. No one promised or asked for a present. In fact I be live the EU asked the UK for £39bn.

      (4) The EU has always made and changed its rules. If enough members want it to do so. The problem is the UK tried to get the EU to go a certain direction. It failed. So we are leaving. Some clubs such as NATO require its members to spend 2 percent of their GDP on defence. Germany does and it took President Trump to call them out in it.

      (5) We signed treaties in good faith. Go the UK and the EU are obliged to hold discussions on a future relationship. To me that means the UK becoming an independent country once more and the EU a Third Country in my eyes.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

      acorn

      I know you struggle so let me help you here. The EU IS NOT A SPORTS CLUB or a Gentlemans club or a golf club. Its supposed to be a trading block. Let me explain to you what trade is.

      Its when a supplier of products or services make or provide something and sells it to a willing buyer. So Scotch whiskey , Coldplay Albums , Cancer scanners etc . Some people who live in Germany make cars which we in Britain quite like and we buy many of them, some people in UK make the technology inside Apple iPhones, some people in Germany like them and buy very many of them.

      The EEC was set up to make the trade in goods easier from a standards and regulations point of view. Er thats it. It worked quite well. Then some unscrupulous failed politicians decided to usurp power and impose a federalist structure onto the countries of Europe without holding elections. We’ve decided to leave that Federal photo state. Meanwhile back in the real world some Germans still like to buy iPhones, cancer scanners, coldplay albums, scotch whiskey etc and some Brits like to buy Mercedes cars, Italian wine & French cheese.

      Wait for it acorn, heres the essential bit. Even though we are no longer wishing to be in the Federal state and therefore also outside the single market in goods, we STILL want to buy and sell goods to the 27 JUST LIKE the 120 OTHER countries that aren’t in the Federal States of the EU

      You’re welcome, glad I could clear that up for you.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 11:38 am | Permalink

        libertarian

        “The EEC was set up to make the trade in goods easier from a standards and regulations point of view. Er thats it”
        ===

        No it isn’t and wasn’t.

        Extract from the official 1975 referendum leaflet:

        The aims of the Common Market are:

        Bring together the peoples of Europe

        Raise living standards and improve working conditions

        Promote growth and boost world trade

        Help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world

        Help maintain peace and freedom

        Over 67% voted for 32% against.

        That’s exactly what we got.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 23, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

          margaret howard

          No it wasn’t what we got . What we got was 2 parliament buildings stuffed full of impotent MEPs with no powers on vast amounts of salary and pensions, what we got was an unelected dictatorship running a regulation and directive factory interfering in every single facet of our lives from bananas to sanitary products, a currency that has crippled Southern Europe,very high youth unemployment, a massive immigration problem, huge crime waves in some EU countries, what we got was regulations which using the EU’s own statistics cost EU businesses 500 billion Euros, insane laws shutting down the internet, its share of world trade has plummeted , it has caused poverty in Africa and 35 wars, insurrections, terrorist uprisings, coups and revolutions so far in Europe since its formation. Oh and so far the EU has overturned at least 3 referenda that voted against them and imposed unwanted leaders on two countries.

          I voted for the EEC in 1975 it was the first vote I ever cast and I’ve regretted it every day since.

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

        libertarian

        Well said

        Trade clarified……succinct, simple, incisive, to the point and eruditely explained!

        ….but sadly, Acorn will still not get it!

        You will have to remind him time and time again…..no sprouting oak tree from this little acorn I am afraid!

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

      I’ve never been in a club that told me who should live in my house.

      I’ve never left a club that told me what laws I should obey and that I had to pay it money years after I’d gone.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

      You don’t take account of the changing nature of the EU over the years. If your local cricket club evolved to play badminton instead would you feel you had to remain a member?

    • mancunius
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

      To continue an existing free trade agreement is not a ‘present’. It is merely common sense, particularly for the EU, given its current trade surplus with the UK.

      • maybyso
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

        Politics will trump economics – nothing to do with common sense. If sense were common everyone would have it and we wouldn’t be in this mess.

    • Bob
      Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

      @acorn

      We joined a Common Market and it morphed into a political bloc, which was exactly what we were told would not happen (although we now know that it was always the intention).

      We’ve suggested that we could maintain some mutually beneficial arrangements to avoid too much disruption to our respective economies but we no longer wish to be subservient to Brussels and we now wish to regain self determination because we’re not happy with the direction of travel of the bloc.

      It’s up to them to take it or leave it. Business will continue whatever happens (as it always does, despite the best efforts of politicians to nause things up).

      It’s all perfectly legal and above board.

  54. Steve
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    JR

    “….Mr Tusk has just made it a whole lot easier for us to leave without a Withdrawal Agreement.”

    Indeed !

    Theresa May made an address to the nation today, I heard it on the radio. To be honest, I was quite moved by what she said.

    I find the actions and attitudes of the EU diplomats present at Salzburg to be downright insulting. Probably not many of whom would exist if it wasn’t for our country.

    In particular I cite Donald Tusk. I take his disrespectfulness toward our PM as a gross disrespect of me and my country.

    Credit must go to Theresa May for holding her own against their bullying. If Mr Tusk had behaved like that toward me I think I would have decked the ungrateful imbecile, right in front of the cameras.

    Hopefully now Theresa May will have learned you cannot negotiate with these jackals, as we’ve been saying all along.

    Nice try Mrs May, but now’s the time to hold fast. It will be a hard Brexit but as the Island Race we will endure and prosper. Tell them we’re not interested and walk away. I guarantee ours will not be the only country to leave.

  55. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    T’ ime out o’Min(d)e

  56. Mark B
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Good evening.

    The UK government and establishment wanted their EU cake and eat it. The EU said no. You are either in or out. We the people voted out and I want to leave. But I and Mike Stallard are aware that we have allowed a foreign power to do all our work for us. Hence the mess we are now in. Time will soon tell is our kind host is right or not. Personally I am sticking to the melodrama of a last minute deal. The EU likes to put on a show.

    • Andy
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 7:23 am | Permalink

      Of course there will be a deal – that has always been inevitable.

      The question is whether the deal is:

      1) What Vote Leave promised.
      2) Better than what we have.

      Clearly it will not be either of these things – in which case the mandate for it is questionable and, more importantly, begs the question why we are ploughing on with making things worse.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

      Mark B

      “we have allowed a foreign power to do all our work for us”

      Can you please explain (educate me) what this “foreign power” (I assume you mean the EU) has done for the UK exactly…….I do believe you are sciolistically muddled, but trust you will put me right?

      • Mark B
        Posted September 22, 2018 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

        Make our laws and negotiate treaties. Sit on international committees.

        And that is just for starters. They also want to control all foreign and domestic policy, the economy and our armed services.

        They are foreign because that are, by a clear majority, not British Citizens.

        Hope that helps.

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted September 23, 2018 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

          Mark B

          Thank you, appreciated.

          “what this “foreign power” (I assume you mean the EU) has done for the UK exactly”

          Your answer was not quite what I was asking for or expecting from you, as most of what you say is tacit! I am well aware what has not been beneficial for the UK and certainly know the EU’s end game.

          I was rather looking for the beneficial things the EU have done for the UK in the past 40 years…. just can’t find one that has been a positive game changer?

          Cheers

  57. JustGetOnWithBrexit
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    The EU Leaders have their Mantra when it comes to dealing with the UK, for having dared to want to leave their Cabal:-

    Pour encourager les autres!

    “Dans ce pay-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres”.

  58. Anonymous
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Olly Robbins worked for Blair. Blair’s fingerprints are all over this.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

      Anonymous

      This Olly Robbins you mean…..

      a. He studied Philosophy, Politics & Economics (PPE) at Hertford College, Oxford.

      b. At Oxford, Robbins was president of the Oxford Reform Club, a group promoting a “FEDERAL EUROPEAN UNION ”

      c. Robbins joined HM Treasury in 1996 on graduation….Government Institutional careerist.

      d. A vigorous Federalist by inclination and arch-protagonist for remaining in the EU…..and now the joke: He is in charge of taking the UK out of the EU.

      Now then everybody, a huge belly laugh!

  59. Chris
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    This is all carefully choreographed in the lead up to the Conference, in my mind. Just give the Brexiter MPs a little false hope before Conference that there is a possibility that they can persuade her to drop Chequers and stand up to the EU. This ensures they all toe the line at Conference and are seen to support her Brexit stance. Then, after Conference revert to form, back to the pre Conference mode.

    It will then be full steam ahead with Chequers minus minus i.e with even more concessions and she will have had the support of the Tory Brexiters all the way. They will have been duped again, I believe.

    May and Robbins et al have already exhibited their extreme duplicity with covertly drawing up Chequers behind Davis’s back and utterly undermining and humiliating him. That treachery, while publicly denounced by some Brexiters, was not enough for them to resign en masse, and instead they are now all lining up publicly declaring their support for her. They are as much to blame as Theresa May is for the disastrous position that we are in. They seem not to mind greatly having a leader who has betrayed the electorate by her “complete capitulation” in December at Dublin, followed by Chequers, and who quite happily sidelined and undermined Davis, her key Brexit Minister.

  60. Iain Gill
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    Mrs May is wrong about the border in the Irish Sea. I am afraid the fly to Dublin, cross the land border, get the ferry to the mainland without needing a visa or passport, is already an abused method of open doors immigration. All the pressure is on England. This will only get worse, and without even the smallest attempt to stem this flow its an outrageous kick in the teeth to voters who were promised immigration control at the last election.

    Also the free right to stay to any EU citizen should have limits, people who have been here 5 years plus fair enough, the coaches arriving at Victoria coach station from Romania and Bulgaria in the last few months no way, those still coming dont be silly.

    These and other issues need sorting if the conservatives actually fancy winning the next election.

  61. Paul H
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    I am sorry, but pigs will fly before May and her cabal actually show some backbone. We have heard all the tough talk before. For example, do you remember the dinner when insulting comments were deliberately leaked to the press by the EU? May waxed indignant in a statement shortly afterwards, then went back to rubbing out her red lines.

    The EU apparatchiks are drunk with their power, arrogant and thuggish; our on-going membership and money will only help resource them to behave thus. The UK must be prepared to stand up to the EU and accept that there will be short-term cost to doing so(whilst ensuring that as much of that cost as possible is borne by the EU).

    And if the Tory party does not shift May it will go down in flames.

  62. Steve
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    A situation of multiple ironies, which now seems to change on a daily basis.

    But for all the mistrust and dislike of Theresa May, remember that whatever you think of our PM, her conduct at Salzburg was commendable while that of the ungrateful 27 was disgusting and smacked of extreme arrogance.

    I rather suspect Theresa May is no longer the remainer she was.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

      Steve

      Naive springs to mind…..hers or yours?

  63. Ron Olden
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    FAKE NEWS FROM THE BBC

    The BBC’s Lord Haw Haw style reporting of the Exchange Rate is disgusting and amounts to little more than Fake News.

    On August 26th 2017 the Pound was worth 1.08 Euros. Today it closed at 1.11 Euros, up near 3% in just over a year. Yet the BBC celebrates its’ ‘fall’.

    The Pound is a floating currency. Its’ value is bound to go up and down from day to day.

    What is noticeable however is that despite the political turbulance of the past 18 months it has remained so stable against the Euro.

    The fact that the Dollar had been rising’ largely as a consequence of Trump’s economic policies and higher interest rates in the USA is nothing to do with us.

    And the fact that Pound is no longer overvalued since the Brexit Vote is one principle reason for the UK present economic success.

    The fact that it’s denying rich Remainers their cheap foreign holidays, cheap imports and cheap foreign labour is their problem.

    One of the reasons why unskilled EU migration has fallen so much recently (helping the UK to achieve our rock bottom unemployment), but which is not often mentioned, is the fact that if migrants wages and state benefits here are worth less in Euros, they have less money to send home.

    So they go back or migrate somewhere else.

  64. Ron Olden
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    This Court Case going about Article 50 going to the ECJ is a prize example of non entity Scottish Politicians’ arrogance and megalomania, and is an insult to the EU.

    There is CLEARLY no provision in Article 50 for a National Parliament to keep voting to change its’ mind and come and go in the EU as it pleases. Article 50 clearly sets out what happens after it has been invoked.

    Once Article 50 is invoked it requires an application to the EU to extend the deadline for leaving, and it’s up to the EU if it agrees or not.

    If you want to stay permanently (or until you next change you mind) you have to make an application to rejoin sign a new Treaty etc etc etc.

  65. Chewy
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    I think yesterday’s shenanigans provide and excellent advert as to why Chequers is unacceptable. Look at the rudeness and arrogance of the varying EU leaders. They wouldn’t treat the leader of a hostile country like that. Rather than projecting strength with their actions they appear insecure.
    Can you imagine people like that having power over vast areas of our economy without us having a say?
    And there’s evidence there that as has been mentioned before, that EU leaders are forming their opinions of Britain based on pro EU press outlets. Notice President Macron in his little hissy fit accused Brexiteers of abdicating responsibility after the vote. That seems to stem from some of the more hysterical Remoaners who accused the likes of Boris Johnson of ducking the leadership because he knew Brexit would be a disaster. Don’t think too many of his allies or even saner opponents would try and deny Boris wants to be PM.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted September 22, 2018 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

      Chewy

      Ask yourself this simple question….though few really understand this question in depth?

      “Why did certain countries get rid of their failed politicians such as the likes of Juncker, Tusk, Verhofstadt, et al, and why they now all reside in the EU” …..with a very big axe to grind! (their mantra: eliminate Parliaments/Sovereign states)…..just ask Blair?

      If you eruditely research their backgrounds (historical background too) and fundamentally:

      – understand the European political landscape (past and present)
      – understand the current global commercial battleground (resources harvesting)
      – understand why there is such a fanatical march to European Federalism (Power)
      – understand the special British/USA relationship (look no further than the Banks?)
      – understand the real geopolitical gameplay? Just watch USA, Russia and China)
      – understand the international markets (global strategies)
      – understand who is really pulling the international strings (and their endgame?)
      – understand who wishes to be part of this political/commercial/power game?
      – understand large Corporate BODs (they talk political and commercial gameplay)
      – understand global resources challenges (Resources ownership)

      ….you may not be so surprised why they are all now in the EU’s “benefits trough” ….Oops, I mean Political infrastructure. Question: Where do T. May and her Remainer cohorts sit in this oleaginous political intrigue?

      If one wishes to negotiate with these types of individuals, one must get under their skin and know the full game! If one has successfully closed multi-billion contracts internationally, avoiding the commercial and political pitfalls, then one has understood one’s adversary – intimately?

      T. May has no real clue (unless she is extremely/cleverly Machiavellian) what she is dealing with, unlike Trump/Farage/John Redwood…one has to have played in the real world politically and commercially at the highest levels to understand what one is dealing with….sadly so few of our Politicians/Civil Servants have sufficient experience or backbone in either domain!

      There are those that can talk a good game (blowhards), but few that can deliver the game!

  66. Steve
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    Peter

    “So WTO might be her only face saving option. Remain then have the problem of how to prevent that.”

    WTO is the only option, the remainers might try to prevent it but in any event there is a showdown on the horizon, which they’ll loose.

  67. Augustyn
    Posted September 21, 2018 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    When I voted for Brexit I knew I was voting for WTO rules. I had though many other reasons To want to exit asap.
    WTO must now be the priority direction to take as it relieves uncertainty for everyone and it’s the only solution which today fixes the requirements for trade in March and it does not require the agreement of the EU.
    As JR has correctly said in previous posts the import/export logistical and customs systems already exist to conclude efficient business.
    Too many politicians just do not understand the single market and the aspects of just how the processes work. How could it be that in the EU I could import wines from the US, Chile, Australia and others without any interruption to my supply chains?

  68. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted September 22, 2018 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    And, it started with a cross. As if once wasn’t ….

  69. rick hamilton
    Posted September 22, 2018 at 12:31 am | Permalink

    Margaret Thatcher knew what she wanted and had an instinct for what the majority of British people wanted too. Not infallible, but near enough when it mattered. In the end we want our country to be respected and we do generally try to behave respectably in the world. I don’t think Theresa May has that instinct at all. She is far too much like the petty minded bureaucrats across the EU table and is just playing their game by their rules – and losing.

    That’s why I support Boris. He’s far from the ideal PM in normal circumstances but Brexit is a national emergency and he understands the mood of the electorate. How else could an Eton and Oxford Tory become Mayor of leftie London twice ? Cometh the hour, cometh the man. JR would be better but he”s not running.

  70. Mark
    Posted September 22, 2018 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Were I negotiating with the EU I would have had a bowl of fresh British cherries on the table at all negotiating sessions when in season, and ones imported from outside the EU or preserved British ones otherwise. Message: we grow our own cherries, and we can trade with the rest of the world.

    It was inevitable that May would end up huffed playing chequers.

  71. Julian
    Posted September 22, 2018 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    I look forward to the reinstatement of the Eccles Cake, Victoria Sponge and the Mr Kipling Almond slice on the local coffee shop menu and the removal of the inferior Apple Strudle, Croissant and Pastel De Nata.

  72. hans christian ivers
    Posted September 22, 2018 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    JR.

    As long as negotiations are still going on, I am not going to be sharing in your hypothesis about sharing a cake or not. Not till the final word and signature has been set in this process.

  73. Nigel Seymour
    Posted September 22, 2018 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Excellent summation by Henry Newman Brexit Central site yesterday. Draws out all that is wrong with chequers and how TM may possibly redeem herself and her credibility with just about everyone in the country. Cabinet is expected to put pressure on her when they meet on Monday? I’d wager that no such thing will occur and chequers will still be ‘their’ favoured option!!

  74. Simon Coleman
    Posted September 23, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    The Brexiteers obviously weren’t going to see the humorous side of the Tusk’s post. You need to have a sense of humour to start with. There obviously ARE cherries to pick, as businesses large and small have been pressurizing the government for 2 years to maintain access to key elements of the single market. Many businesses thrived in the single market over a period of 4 decades. It’s just absurd to say that there are no benefits to EU membership. 16 point something million people voted to stay in it – a fact you completely ignore…and to your peril.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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