5 November

Today we remember the Gunpowder plot. This planned terrorist attack on the British establishment 413 years ago was fortunately thwarted, unlike the one in 1984 which I lived through. It is curious that we still commemorate the former.

What was it about 1605 that causes it still to resonate today? I suppose it is  because the outrage was planned on such a huge scale, aiming to blow up the King, his government, and all other people of whatever opinion in Lords and Commons. It left the establishment shaken, but also relieved that their intelligence networks picked up the mistakes of the terrorist group in time. The country had just got through the potentially difficult business of passing government from Queen Elizabeth to King   James, when there was no clear single heir with uncontestable title. Elizabeth died with  no son or daughter, brother or sister to take over. It was a reminder that there was a strong minority in the kingdom that could not accept a Protestant succession and would murder on a mass scale to overturn it.

The other reason is probably that the combination of a bonfire and fireworks makes a great evening out for many. It is seasonal, with colder dark evenings a suitable backdrop for a great warming fire and for a colourful display. Some now find the idea of burning a Guy in effigy distasteful, as we remember the best known criminal of the plot. Others worry about the noise of fireworks affecting animals, or fret about the safety risks of so much modern gunpowder. The trend to more large displays makes sense. You can pool the costs  to get better fireworks, and more care can be taken in setting up the show and letting it off. You can hold them away from homes, with strong emphasis on avoiding fire hazard.

I think it is a tradition that fulfils a need for a November event. We can all come together to be glad that different strands of Christianity now live in tolerance of each other, and to celebrate that on this occasion in 1605  terrorism was thwarted. It is a good reminder that settling political difference by arguments and votes is a much better approach.

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175 Comments

  1. Lifelogic
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Odd that the government are so concerned about carbon emmisions and air quality and yet seem perfectly happy for millions of tons of it to be emmited on bonfire night. Even thousands beacons burning round the Tower of London. This carbon religion does seem to be rather selective.

    Boris is spot on today on free speech, can we have it back please.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/04/need-new-campaign-free-speech-take-professionally-offended/

    • Duncan
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:55 am | Permalink

      The majority of the British people are under constant attack by a political class that’s fully embraced liberal left, social control politics.

      The hate crime narrative being pursued by this appalling PM is without question the most pernicious and blatant destruction of our freedoms that I ever seen in all of my 50 years. it is presented as a social positive with the aim of inculcating tolerance. When I hear the word tolerance I reach for my proverbial revolver . Tolerance is liberal left code for the destruction of freedom of speech

      I never hear the terms of ‘freedom of speech’, ‘liberty’ and ‘individual’ come from the lips of May

      It’s very sad to see both major parties embrace of a subtle form of totalitarianism and believe me what we are seeing is a new, improved version of totalitarianism. I even have reservations about posting comments onto this site

      Minority rights issues and the constant threat of terrorism as proven to be manna from heaven for politicians like May, Corbyn and McDonnell

      • Bob
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

        @Duncan

        “It’s very sad to see both major parties embrace of a subtle form of totalitarianism”

        That’s why I support UKIP.

        • Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

          And very likely there are many here who realise that UKIP are at least embracing the erstwhile ‘Conservative’ values. And with a manifesto that we recognise.
          They’ve got my vote if they get their leadership sorted out before the next election.
          Saving your presence, Dr Redwood, I don’t think I want to vote Conservative next time round.

      • Helen Smith
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

        Tolerance only works one way.

        • Oggy
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

          You’re right there – the majority has to tolerate everything whilst the minority tolerates nothing.

      • Stephen Priest
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

        It’s difficult to see any difference between May, Blair and Corbyn.

        After 9/11 Blair seemed to imply terrorism might be justified if there were “root causes”. He seemed to be saying if only Bin Laden was after some territory we could offer a bit to him in some kind of “peace deal”.

        A large amount of the New Labour project seemed to be about trapping people permanently on benefits. If Corbyn became Prime Minister he’d balloon the deficit to about 10% of GDP. Just like Tony Blair.

        Corbyn would renationalise energy and the railways. We’ll Blair already started that process with Netword Rail and interfering with the energy market.

        Theresa May seems to take up the policy of any Left Wing pressure group within about five minute of hearing it.

        She will soon have higher taxation than

        Gordon Brown
        Tony Blair
        James Callaghan
        Harold Wilson
        Clement Attlee
        Ramsay MacDonald

        In other word every single Labour Prime Minister.

      • Alison
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

        Duncan, I strongly agree with you.
        Our host is a skilled writer – above: “It was a reminder that there was a strong minority in the kingdom that could not accept …” … talking about 1605.
        But every day for some years I have to adjust my speech – never rude – and consider to whom I can speak freely. I read vile comments in the local press about people who dare to say they support Brexit.
        There is something very frightening about political correctness. Those who are “politically correct” – for example who say people like Arron Banks (guilty until proven innocent) should not be given a ‘platform’ etc etc .. – they do not seem to see that they themselves are curtailing free speech, let alone condemning somebody as guilty from the outset.
        More should read George Orwell, Solzhenitsyn.

        • Mitchel
          Posted November 6, 2018 at 11:06 am | Permalink

          Solzhenitsyn’s Harvard address “Warning to the West” from 8 June 1978 should be required reading for everyone-the text is online and you can hear the great man deliver it himself(in Russian with English subtitles) via Youtube.

          I’d say Huxley’s “Brave New World”( at the time of writing he apparently wasn’t sure whether it should be taken as a warning,a manifesto or a satire) has also been quite prophetic with it’s vision of soft,corporatist totalitarianism as opposed to Orwell’s hard,Soviet totalitarianism.You just need to adjust the year numbering system from AF(after Ford) to AZ (after Zuckerberg)!

    • Norman
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 9:06 am | Permalink

      Sadly, because of corrupt human nature, tolerance has become a stalking horse for liberalism, which tolerates no-one but itself. Freedom of speech is the first casualty. However, by the grace of God, truth will out, albeit not without tribulation.
      Regarding the Gunpowder Plot and Brexit, the same forces are writ large to an amazing degree, which confirms the solemnity of the issue.

      • Ed Mahony
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

        My experience is Catholics are the most pro Brexit. Why?

        For both patriotic and religious reasons (although from a theological POV, you cannot really split the two).

        I turned more pro Brexit after learning that Catholic theology says that power should be as sovereign as possible.

        However, I also follow the argument of Protestants, atheists and others (including Catholics) that the end doesn’t justify the means (not just for ethical reasons but also because such an approach undermines what you want to achieve in the long-term, if not before, leading to unintended consequences – history books are full of this).

        • Ed Mahony
          Posted November 6, 2018 at 12:23 am | Permalink

          (apologies for mixing religion with politics here … – theologically, Catholicism is pro Brexit – pro sovereignty – as i understand things – but Catholics, like others, are split about it politically i.e. the geopolitical / economic arguments for having it right now).

          (And the Pope intervening, politically, back in Tudor England, was an abuse of power – a type of abuse introduced by the Medici Popes and others – and something quite at odds with Catholic theology which is why Pope John Paul II apologised for so many of these types of abuses of power at this time and before).

          • Mitchel
            Posted November 6, 2018 at 11:19 am | Permalink

            I would have said the papacy was globalist (at least in aspiration)going all the way back to the friction between the Byzantine Emperors -and later Russian Tsars-(who both ruled over church and state) and the ambitions of the Popes in Italy as it fell away from the Empire and the ensuing split between the Latin church with it’s universal designs and the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches which are autocephalous ie national churches.

  2. BOF
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    And now we have a Government and establishment that wishes to make a bonfire of democracy by keeping us tied firmly to the EU.

    • Chris
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      This article on the Conservative Woman website is excellent in its analysis of Theresa May’s sell out and how she has duped and manipulated, successfully, the Brexiter MPs. A damning indictment of both May and her team but also the Brexiter MPs who failed to act.
      https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/anatomy-of-a-sellout-how-may-manipulated-us-all/

      I believe, Mr Redwood, this is how so many of us see the situation. I really cannot fathom how Brexiter MPs could be so weak and ineffective and let the globalists/deep state’s tool (May and Robbins) trample all over them. Do Tory MPs realise the extent of the contempt and anger there is in the country for them? I think not. Perhaps they don’t really care.

      Reply So far by co-operating with Mrs May the Brexiteer MPs have helped put through the EU Withdrawal Act and the Act of Parliament that gave authority for the Article 50 letter. These are central to leaving on March 29th which is what we will do unless some new law is passed stopping this. We have not given our support to any possible sell out deal and have made clear we would oppose the necessary legislation to repeal or amend what we have already achieved.

      • Peter
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

        “Reply So far by co-operating with Mrs May the Brexiteer MPs have helped put through the EU Withdrawal Act and the Act of Parliament that gave authority for the Article 50 letter. These are central to leaving on March 29th which is what we will do unless some new law is passed stopping this. We have not given our support to any possible sell out deal and have made clear we would oppose the necessary legislation to repeal or amend what we have already achieved.”

        Yes. I see the logic behind what you say and certainly hope it comes to pass.

        The problem is people are understandably unsettled when they read reports that it has ‘all gone quiet’ and that the Prime Minister is looking unusually pleased with herself.

        There is talk that she will pull some last minute stroke to push her modified Chequers plan through and it will mean Brexit in Name Only. We know she has form with previous devious schemes. She is still Prime Minister despite the wishes of the majority of the country. She knows how to gain and keep power. Then the whips will get to work and sensible MPs will be required to stand firm.

        Worrying times.

      • Peter Wood
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

        Reply to Reply,

        This is my reading also, you’ve cooperated with the ‘exit plan’ so long as it points in the right direction, but soon it will be necessary to make a stand; I feel sure that Dr. Redwood will, but how many will stand with him. It’s a bit like riding a runaway train with only one chance to switch the points to change track before a catastrophe!

        • Alison
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

          Re reply and reply to reply, It is crystal clear to me that Mrs May’s team – I assume Mr Robbins & co – have been mapping out all the different theatres of action, decision-making well in advance, and acting to convert, neutralize etc well in advance.
          Couldn’t sleep again last night, trying to map out the various regiments, battalions and terrain, remembering what happened to Richard III at Bosworth with Lord Stanley changing sides last minute. Which then led to Henry VII, crushing taxation and re-written ‘history’.

      • Nick Martinek
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

        Reply to reply: JR, The current political situation is more akin to King John reneging on the Magna Carta than Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder plot. And I don’t think Theresa May intends to “repeal or amend” what you have achieved, but rather to sign us back up to the EU via new bi-lateral treaties. There is a Remain majority in the HoC for that. Only the attempted removal of Mrs May and the possibility of another GE will focus Remain MPs’ minds.

        • Chris
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

          She has also achieved that other goal: to make people so fed up with waiting that they just want her to get her vassal state deal through (according to Express tonight). Another poll they quote states that 50% would now vote to Remain (and are the other 50% Leave?).

          Theresa May was allowed to achieve the goal mentioned above simply because of her weak, vacillating Brexiter MPs who lacked the courage to take action early on. They were apparently far more concerned about holding their Party together and retaining power than doing what was best for their country. Well, they will reap the “rewards” for their (what I consider to be) cowardice and their apparent determination to save themselves rather than uphold democracy. What a legacy. History will not be kind to them.

          Reply We backed her to get the Withdrawal Act through. We will not back watering down that Act which says we just leave next March

    • Richard
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      Remember, remember the 8th of December…

  3. Lifelogic
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    Reform stamp duty say Greg Hands. Indeed better still just abolish it. Tax real profits not turnover is a far better approach. Though 28% on capital gains for residential gains without any indexation is also far, far too high. Double taxation of landlord interest is moronic too. A tax on tenants and job mobility.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/03/reform-stamp-duty-get-country-moving/

    • oldtimer
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:22 am | Permalink

      I also read it is intended to halve the time home owners have to sell their own home before they become liable for CGT on the gain. I wrongly thought it was 2 years when currently it is 18 months. Hammond’s budget proposes to cut that time in half to only 9 months. This sounds wrong to me; it will cause many people many problems in the years ahead.

      • Lifelogic.
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

        Indeed another back door tax grab from ‘tax to death’ Hammond though I assume it only brings the small proportion into tax whatever it exceeds this period by over the total ownership period?

      • Chris Dark
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

        Is this for prime residences? I thought CGT only applied to second homes, not primary. But then, I havent sold a primary residence for over thirty years so I’m not up to date, perhaps.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

          Yes it is if you have an overlap on your principal residences when you move form one to another. You can of course divorce and have one each. But then you have to be careful not to die as IHT cut in at 40% which is worse still

      • A.Sedgwick
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

        All news to me, if correct will freeze the housing market even more. I thought homes were completely free of CGT.

        • oldtimer
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

          When you change your primary residence, say to downsize you have a set period to sell it before you are liable for CGT. Way back it was 2 years. At some point this was reduced to 18 months (of which I was not aware until I checked the HMRC website on this subject). The latest budget proposes to reduce this to 9 months. Of course this measure did not feature in Mr Hammond’s budget speech. You have to dig into the small print to discover such sneaky changes. It was a comment by Paul Goodman about CGT changes that prompted me to look up CGT on the HMRC website on the budget changes.

          • Stred
            Posted November 6, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

            The end of letting relief is another retrospective change, which will affect people who have made long term plans and now find that they are liable for a large CGT bill.
            The tax usually affects owners who buy a house which requires modernization and extension but cannot be lived in until the work is finished. They own two houses while the work is carried out and had two years to move and sell the original home. As it often takes 6 month’s to have plans passed and a year to finish the work, this could land owners liable for 28% CGT on a price rise on the new house or the old one. This gain could have been 30% on a small house in London or say £100k and the tax bill would cost as much as the extension. The Treasury’s money grubbing continues.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

        https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/03/budget-tax-on-landlords-could-cost-them-13000

        Just to be clear this only applies if the house has been let out during the ownership.

        Still poor behaviour from our tax and spend chancellor but not a tax on your home.

    • A different Simon
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

      Better still do what Adam Smith suggested and get HM Govt to implement an annual ground rent for all freeholders which captures 100% of the economic rental value of the location (i.e. location value tax (LVT)) .

      Reduce other taxes accordingly , especially payroll taxes and transaction taxes e.g. stamp duty .

      Instead of mortgage lenders/landlords/owner occupiers capturing the economic rental value of the location , society as a whole does .

      Expected result :-
      – at worse tax neutral for most people .
      – Economic rental value of land is paid to society which pays for the services which gives locations their relative rental value .
      – Public services can be properly funded and improved for all .
      – Mortgage lenders unable to shrink the real economy by capturing the economic rental value of a locations .
      – Land speculation reduced . Income stream derived from foreign absentee owners . People who benefit from property rights pay for the legal structures to maintain them .

      • Nick Martinek
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

        A different Simon, LVT makes us into serfs of the state. By removing property rights, the only beneficiary is the state not society.

      • Lifelogic.
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

        Yes sure, “public services” spend a fortune already (the NHS approaching 40% of government expenditure and deliver very little of much value or quality. Much of what they do does positive harm to the productive sector and individuals.

        People must take responsibility for own health, says Matt Hancock. Well if they had to pay for their own health care or insurance they might well do that Matt! The free at the point of rationing NHS is the problem here. Insurance would be cheaper for those that had a health lifestyle and weight.

        Encouraging more to cycle to work is more likely to get them killed or injured. Eating fruit (which is full of sugar) between meals at work will probably make them fatter too. Has this government not just introduced a sugar tax and yet now they want fruit bowls in the office? Make you mind up! More sugar in an orange than many fizzy drinks.

    • A different Simon
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

      Rents in desirable locations are dependent upon the maximum amount tenants can afford to pay , not on landlords costs .

      Double taxation as you call it of landlord interest does not get passed on to tenants . It gets born by landlords .

      The corollary , by your logic reducing business rates on commercial premises as Hammond is proposing would help shopkeepers . It doesn’t , it just leads to an increase in rent of the same magnitude .

      • Lifelogic.
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

        No it means many landlords sell up, the choice of properties to rent decreases and rents thus increase.

        • Lifelogic.
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

          Just simple supply and demand backed by an ability and desire to pay.

      • Lifelogic.
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

        On rate reductions it will in time lead to increases in rents (or perhaps more likely less decreases in rents) given the weak market currently for retail properties.

    • Bob
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

      “Reform stamp duty say Greg Hands. Indeed better still just abolish it.”

      UKIP would abolish Stamp Duty as well as:
      • Inheritance Tax
      • HS2
      • Foreign Aid
      • TV Licence
      • EU membership
      • Tuition Fees for STEM subjects

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

        All sensible stuff. But they do not have even one MP yet. Even the Greens have managed to get that pleasant enough but scientifically illiterate, climate alarmist MP for Brighton.

        • Bob
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

          @lifelogic

          Lot’s of things seemed impossible or improbable until they happened.
          But you know what Einstein said,

          ” insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”

          You of all people should understand that regardless of whether you vote red or blue you will get socialism. You have repeatedly lamented that fact here every day. Time to try something else.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

        Bob

        No they won’t as they dont stand an iceberg in hell’s chance of ever being elected . You’ve only ever had one MP and you all hated him

        • Bob
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

          @libertarian

          The rise of ukip in 2014/15 is what led to the Referendum.
          You would be shocked at the appalling level of skulduggery that took place by the establishment parties to prevent a ukip breakthrough. They were so worried that it might break their Parliamentary monopoly. I won’t go into the details because one of the cases is currently sub judice.

          Clearly things are skewed against newcomers in uk parliamentary elections and the MSM does a good job to keep it that way. Do you really want to assist them?

          • libertarian
            Posted November 6, 2018 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

            Bob

            UKIP are their own worst enemy . They fight like rats in a sack

            Yes the PROTEST vote of 2014/15 did indeed lead to a referendum which is exactly why we all voted UKIP, not because UKIP themselves had any thing to offer as witnessed by the subsequent complete collapse of the UKIP vote and membership

  4. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Oh dear John. Your last sentence leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. Settle differences by votes? You must be joking. We had a vote and Parliament has done everything in its power to overturn the result of that vote. Whilst I don’t favour violence under any circumstances it is easy to see why some don’t when democracy counts for nothing.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:04 am | Permalink

      Indeed. I was too young to vote in 1975, but would have voted to leave even then. The people were then denied any say at all inn the matter for 41 years until the referendum in 2016. This despite all the new treaties giving more and more powers away without any authority from voters. May is clearly now going to attempt to betray the referendum result, her election manifesto and her clear earlier promises. She must be stopped and removed. Her other tax and regulate to death policies are totally idiotic as well. Just get rid of her before she gives us Corbyn/SNP and a vassal state.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

      Fedupsoutherner.

      Agreed, Parliament and our Government by their recent actions are a poor example of democracy in action.

      From recent reports it looks like the Brexit sell out is almost complete.

      • Peter Parsons
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

        Parliament, with the unrepresentative FPTP system, safe seats, wasted votes etc. is a poor example full stop.

        • libertarian
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

          Peter Parsons

          Whilst I agree on the problem but differ on the solution I find your constant posting on this very hypocritical. You are against the most democratic vote we’ve ever had in the history of this country , so not really sure why you think you should be taken seriously

    • The PrangWizard
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      When they deliberately abuse our democracy and revel in it, what else is there? It cannot be said that violence is unacceptable under all circumstances. In some periods of our history it has proved absolutely necessary and right, and we should not be afraid of saying so and our right to say so should not be removed.

    • Mitchel
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink

      Interesting that the government is effectively proposing to recruit mercenaries to maintain numbers for even the diminished scale of the military.

      Historically,a telltale sign of a decaying state.

      • Bob
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

        @Mitchel

        ” government is effectively proposing to recruit mercenaries “

        Why would anyone want to serve in a military which seeks to prosecute soldiers for doing their job?

        The armed forces are undergoing the same politicization process that happened to the police “service”.

        A UKIP govt would put a stop to this nonsense.

    • Helen Smith
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

      Even Barry Gardiner recognised that if people’s votes are ignored they will find another way to make their voices heard.

  5. Duncan
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    ‘It is a good reminder that settling political difference by arguments and votes is a much better approach.’

    Yes, well, I know there are people based on these shores who would disagree with you. Indeed, some of them are even members of the HM’s Official Opposition.

    Do not underestimate the poison and hatred of the Marxist left that Labour’s now embraced. At its heart is a burning desire to overturn and overthrow everything we have and everything we own.

    I have learned one thing about the left, they lie.

    • Chris
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:00 am | Permalink

      The battle against the left in the USA has been the most significant eye opener for me while following US politics. The only thing that keeps me going is that eventually what happens in the USA filters over here. President Trump is, in my view, about to preside over a red tsunami in the mid terms tomorrow. The House will stay Republican and the Senate will gain more Republicans – my view is based on NOT reading/listening to the fake news, such as CNN et al, but alternative news sources and videoclips or P Trump’s rallies. 20,000 for one rally last week! Incredible.

      However, it is not difficult to comprehend when you realise that P Trump is fighting for ordinary individuals against the corrupt global political elite, known as the deep state/globalists (of which the EU is an essential part). In the next few months there are going to be hugely significant arrests of key personnel of the Obama administration. P Trump is very definitely draining the swamp in DC, but also tackling the deep state world wide, and he is succeeding.

      P Trump has shown the world how to do things, how to win and how to take action against evil – face it head on and be bold. Theresa May has shown everyone how not to get things done. As a willing tool of the globalists/deep state she has been an appeaser, she is weak and she has, in my view, perpretrated the greatest treachery against this country. Oh for a President Trump here.

      • Lifelogic.
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

        We have far better people than Trump (rather less vulgar and more intelligent) available in the Tory party but alas the largely daft, lefty, pro EU, climate alarmist MPs never seem to pick them.

        Let the members have rather more say in it.

        • Chris
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

          You underestimate President Trump. He is extremely shrewd and intelligent, and my own view is that no politician in the UK matches up to him at all. Nigel Farage was the best we had in the UK but the globalists were determined to destroy him, and I include MPs in the Conservative Party as globalists.

          We seem to have a bunch of mainly weak MPs who lack vision, courage and principles, probably because they have been “emasculated” by all these years of the EU taking decisions for them. They haven’t had to think for themselves for years, and they certainly haven’t had to fight for this country as they were in the position of being rule takers and accepting orders from the eurocrats in Brussels.

      • Nick Martinek
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

        Chris, Sadly I must agree. Much of our establishment has succumbed to the EU ideology.

      • Bob
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

        @Chris

        ” Theresa May has shown everyone how not to get things done. As a willing tool of the globalists/deep state she has been an appeaser, she is weak and she has, in my view, perpetrated the greatest treachery against this country.”

        Maybe people will finally wake up to the fact that the existing flop flop between Tory or Labour govts is just the means to trick the public into believing that they live in a democracy. If we want to restore democracy we will have to stop voting for them. Give them their P45s (our host and his like minded colleagues excepted of course, we know who the delinquents are).

      • Richard Evans
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

        I could not agree more, your last paragraph especially. Theresa May’s tenure as the Home Secretary revealed her total incompetence. To save the UK we need and hopefully we will achieve a sea-change, however it may possibly be TOO LATE.
        JR is an intelligent man but appears to be following the set narrative??

        Reply What set narrative and by whom? I write my own narratives

  6. Mick
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    I’ve never agreed with bonfire night that celebrates terror, what next celebration of the IRA cowardly assassination attack on Mrs Thatcher and her government in Brighton in the 80’s, just ban it and the sale of fireworks, but before you do ban all bonfires let’s make a bloody big one made up of the conservatives/labour manifestos

    • Bob
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

      “I’ve never agreed with bonfire night that celebrates terror,”

      It doesn’t celebrate terror but rather it commemorates the defeat of a terror plot. It we were able to thwart Treason May’s plot today we could have a double commemoration.

  7. Peter
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    When did you last see children asking for ‘a penny for the guy’?

    Traditions are changing. A Hollywood version of Halloween has eclipsed Guy Fawkes night.

    I am not overly keen on sanitised Local Authority sponsored fireworks displays myself.

    • Mitchel
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

      “A Hollywood version of Halloween has eclipsed Guy Fawkes night”

      “Fangs ain’t what they used to be!”(with thanks to Kenneth Williams in Carry on Screaming)

  8. Helena
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Foreign direct invesment in the UK has crashed because of Brexit.
    http://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/2018/11/01/brexit-vote-has-reduced-foreign-direct-investment-to-the-uk-by-19-per-cent/
    This is costing the country billions upon billions. Had Guy Fawkes succeeded, the damage he would have done to our country would have been small compared to the continuing catastrophe that is Brexit. One wonders how the Brexiteers will eventually be held to account

    Reply FDI continues to run at high levels compared to history, and is the result of many factors. IT is related to how large a balance of payments deficit we are running.

    • Stred
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

      Two European researchers in that slightly lefty institution Sussex Uni with a string of anti-Brexit papers. Note that she missed the fall in investment started before the referendum, shown on their chart, and that it’s still higher than 5 years ago. They mention that it is still high and that Greenfield sites figure highly. Don’t suppose the taxes to wreck the development of posh flats in London for buyers off plan in Hong Kong and Dubai had any effect? Or the trashing of the car industry which had followed EU advice and invested in diesels.

    • Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

      And, Helena, when all is eventually well (as it certainly will be, despite Project Fear and its gullible followers) can we expect you to comment here on how you were mistaken and how glad you are that your Remain vote came to nought?

      By the way, Brexit hasn’t happened yet. It’s the pig’s ear of the actual exit that is causing people like you to flap around like headless chickens. Project Fear certainly has you in its thrall! (Stop reading Facebook – you’ll feel better.)

    • libertarian
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

      Helena

      You’re not an academic by any chance are you?

      The link to the piece of total drivel and propaganda you have given us is indicative of the kind of nonsense we are trying to get away from. Naive gullible people such as yourself that read the headline , think it justifies your opinion and then repost it is the source of most fake news

      FDI into the UK is running at record levels. What the so called report says , is they BELIEVE without Brexit it could have been 19% higher . So no FDI hasn’t crashed, it hasn’t been reduced by 19% and its hasn’t gone down.

      Heres the REAL report from ONS

      Foreign direct investment (FDI) based on the quarterly survey show that net earnings of FDI improved in 2017 overall, while the net stock of FDI remained stable. Less than 1.1% of UK business receives FDI
      Provisional quarterly estimates suggest that the downward trend in net FDI earnings ended in 2017, recording the first annual increase since 2011
      The value of FDI income received (credits) increased notably in 2017, while the value of FDI payable income (debits) remained stable in 2017. Credits rose by £23.5 billion over the year, reversing the downward trend in the value of credits observed since 2011. The value of credits rose to £81.9 billion in 2017 .

      In contrast, FDI debits have been relatively more stable since 2011, varying between £51 billion and £60 billion. Debits decreased by £0.2 billion in 2017 to £59.8 billion. The increase in credits and stability of debits in 2017 implies that net FDI earnings increased to become positive in 2017, from negative £1.6 billion in 2016 to £22.1 billion.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

        Helena

        Oh look what just popped into my mail box

        The latest global FDI figures have blown apart the regular Remainer refrain that Brexit “uncertainty” is causing anxious businesses to hold back investment in the UK. According to the most recent UNCTAD figures, far from languishing near the bottom of the table, the UK is currently ranked second best in the world, with $65.5 billion of FDI coming into the UK in the first half of 2018 alone, just behind China on $70.2 billion.

        The Netherlands lags behind the UK in fourth place with $44.8 billion, while Spain is the only other EU country to make the top ten in eighth with $29.8 billion. Not one of the other 25 EU member states has even managed to secure one third as much FDI as the UK…

        I will await your full retraction and apology for posting totally fake news

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

      Helena, you, and the authors, should be ashamed to propagate such twaddle.

      “Our research has shown that there has been a considerable drop in FDI since the vote to leave the EU and if the trend is not reversed … ”

      Which trend started long before the vote to leave the EU, as the authors themselves then admit:

      “In early 2015, a quarter of all FDI projects into the EU28 were destined for the UK. By late 2017, this proportion had fallen to 18 per cent.”

      In early 2015 there was not even a Tory government with a majority to pass the legislation for a referendum, yet foreign investors already started to take fright because they feared we would vote to leave the EU eighteen months later …

      And look at their chart, do you see how their red line indicating the date of the EU referendum is already nearly halfway down the slope of that new trend which had started long before?

      And while you are looking at that chart cast your eye back to the large fluctuations over even earlier years, were they also caused by the EU referendum?

      In fact have a look at this chart in their full paper:

      http://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/files/2018/10/figure_1-jpeg.jpg

      and see how widely variable the FDI flows have been.

      This is on a par with the rubbish from the OBR:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/10/12/my-speech-during-the-debate-on-the-agriculture-bill-10-october-2018/#comment-966111

      ” … goes straight on to give that Chart 1.1 at the top of the next page, with GDP growth very obviously having slowed even more during the five quarters BEFORE the referendum than during the period AFTER the referendum.”

    • Lifelogic.
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

      Well perhaps other more important factors are the highest taxes for nearly 50 years, an incompetent lefty PM leading us over the cliff, a tax to death chancellor, endless green crap, bonkers political correctness and the very real prospect of a Corbyn/SNP trip to Venezuella.

    • Nick Martinek
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

      Helena, Total rubbish. For FDI, the UK is second in the world (behind China) and top in the EU (latest UNCTAD figures). FDI will plunge due to continuing Remain. Remain is costing the country £billions upon £billions. Had Guy Fawkes succeeded, the damage he would have done to our country would have been small compared to the continuing catastrophe that is Bremain. One wonders how the Remains like Theresa May will eventually be held to account?

    • Richard1
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

      Guy Fawkes was attempting to reverse the first Brexit & I guess wanted to move England back under the aegis of the Pope. Its good he failed.

      I didn’t read the whole report but the link you sent is very vague and doesn’t include a long series of actual numbers. the salient phrase seems to me to be: ‘The UK remains one of the largest recipients of FDI in the world, with almost 1,000 greenfield investment projects in 2017 totalling more than US$33 billion and creating approximately 60,000 new jobs’. That isn’t really consistent with what Remain were telling us as part of Project Fear during the referendum is it!?

      No doubt once we get the uncertainty of Brexit behind us, especially if we then pursue global free trade and other sensible tax and regulatory policies, there will be excellent scope for further improvement.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

      Helena

      Just reported on Guido Fawkes web site today. UK has the second highest inward investment in the World.

      Clearly someone has got it wrong.

      I do often wonder why some people only want to try to celebrate failure, or only report so called poor news, and rejoice in doing so.

    • Original Richard
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

      Helena, The UKTPO report actually says :

      “Our latest research finds that overseas investment to the UK may be some 19 per cent lower because of the vote to leave the EU.”

      It doesn’t say it is 19% lower, because how could they measure it ?

      More importantly, according to an article in Guido Fawkes today I read the following concerning the latest global FDI figures :

      “According to the most recent UNCTAD (UN Conference on Trade and Development) figures, far from languishing near the bottom of the table, the UK is currently ranked second best in the world, with $65.5 billion of FDI coming into the UK in the first half of 2018 alone, just behind China on $70.2 billion.

      The Netherlands lags behind the UK in fourth place with $44.8 billion, while Spain is the only other EU country to make the top ten in eighth with $29.8 billion. Not one of the other 25 EU member states has even managed to secure one third as much FDI as the UK…”

  9. Bryan Harris
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Wasn’t it desperation that drove the gunpowder plot, as much as anything else.

    When people see their government going off the rails, and their protests are ignored, people get desperate, especially when honest grievences mount against a bad government.

    Parliamentarians should remember the 5th as a warning that honest, decent folk can only be pushed so far.

  10. Original Richard
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    “It is a good reminder that settling political difference by arguments and votes is a much better approach.”

    Yes, provided both sides are given an equal chance to put their arguments to the voters and the voting system is not rigged or the result ignored or undermined by substituting the original electorate with a different and much smaller “representative” electorate for a second attempt.

  11. henryS
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    The problem is that one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. The word terrorist did not exist 413 years ago it is an invention of the 20th century by some governments who themselves have not had such a great record for dealing with local political and religious differences. Even the murderer of the Arch Duke Franz Josef the heir to the Austro/ Hungarian throne in 1914 is described in the history books as an assassin and not as a terrorist as he obviously was going by today’s criteria. Then we have only to look at the countries and governments throughout the world today who most often use this terminology, terrorism and terrorist, to know what they themselves mostly resemble.

    • Nick Martinek
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

      HenryS, Did you learn your history from the back of a cornflake pack? Terrorist goes back at least as far as the French revolutionary terror – the late C18th.

      • Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

        “I have been made victorious through terror.” Who said that? I can’t give you a clue.

        • Nick Martinek
          Posted November 6, 2018 at 10:59 am | Permalink

          Iago, Yes, having googled it I now know why.

  12. Nig l
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    I feel so let down regularly, especially at the moment, by being treated as no more than voting fodder, that metaphorically I yearn for ‘Guy Fawkes moments.

  13. Newmania
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    A lot of us a a great deal less impressed by “democracy” than we once were. The Nazis got 43.9 percent in 1933 Theresa May only got 36.9% by the “democratic ” measure we get thrown at us all day the Nazis are somewhat more right than Theresa May.
    The Chartists demanded universal male suffrage in 1838 , an ambition Victorian Conservatives opposed indefatigably.
    Presumably Mr Redwood feels the Chartists were right ( and again thats just him and Corbyn)
    The whole point of Conservatism is to regard the passing passions of a mob with scepticism , well it was .It was immediately clear to Athenian satirists that a good orator could convince the rolling referendum of any old rubbish.
    That incidentally is the problem with Mr Redwoods claim to “expertise ” in economics and policy .I`m happy to accept his credentials, the problem is he argues points he cannot possibly believe to be true , for his own political and personal reasons

    Reply The Nazis went on to overthrow elections and stamp out the usual checks and balances of a democratic constitution. Mrs May and the Conservatives got a 42% vote in 2017

    • Stred
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

      And then ignored what she had promised for her 42%. Kippers will not forget, even if they are swivel eyed loons, as no doubt the no 10 insurgents think.

    • libertarian
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

      Newmaina

      There we have it from the mouth of a Remainer

      They would rather live in an Oligarchy with no means of changing the government

      Of course the problem for dummies like Newmania, Helena and Andy is it never dawns on them that someone they really dont agree with could gain power and implement all kinds of nasty things and they would have no means of changing it

      • Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

        Or a hegemony, even. But only if it’s a German one, of course. The likes of those you mention, Libertarian, certainly admire their EU masters. I wonder if they’d like them quite so much if they knew they couldn’t get rid of them when they become tiresome?

        Perhaps they don’t consider that, just like the call for a second referendum, the Germans thought they’d have a second go just so that they could get it right. Thank God they didn’t win a second time. So let’s not go making it easy for them to have a third try.

      • Andy
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

        I would rather live in a country where the government speaks for the majority. Only 42% voted for these inept clowns who impose their will on the other 58% of voters.

        I have long advocated changing the voting system so it is fair to all – including UKIP. But the angry pensioners are selfish and won’t do anything that harms their own illegitimate hold on power.

        • Original Richard
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

          Andy,

          The EU referendum was the ultimate in proportional representation and it was won by those who wanted the UK to become a free country and be able to elect and remove those who decide upon our laws, taxes, social, immigration and foreign policies etc..

          In what way are pensioners holding illegitimately onto power ?

          Or do you believe, like Mr. Clegg, that younger voters should have two votes ?

        • Edward2
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

          You could say that for every government since 1900.
          Even more so under PR

        • libertarian
          Posted November 6, 2018 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          There is NOTHING fairer than one person one vote on a binary question and one result. Its the ultimate democratic and fair choice. It happened, you lost and you haven’t stop crying since .

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

      Newmania

      “Some of us are less impressed with democracy than we once were.”

      So you were quite alright with democracy (including the Nazi election results) until the EU referendum. Strange.

      What is even stranger is this. Neither you, nor anyone on the Remain side, will acknowledge some of the things that made people unhappy enough use the ballot box (not mob rule at all) much less remedy them.

      No. We’re all just scum to you. To be ignored.

      If you had a bit of give about you things might be different.

    • Richard1
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

      As wisely pointed out recently in the European parliament the nazis were leftist & collectivist, as well as racist. The franchise during the C19th was widened by Tory governments.

    • Newmania
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

      In August 1934, after the death of von Hindenburg the German people voted to merge the role of State President giving Hitler a new role with the title Führer, and as the de facto Head of State.

      The referendum was passed with 88% in favour, the turnout was over 95% !!!!!

      • Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

        And that was a good result, was it?
        Oh dear.

      • Richard1
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

        Are you making an argument for or against a political union with Germany and other EU countries?

      • libertarian
        Posted November 6, 2018 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

        Newmainia

        I agree with your sentiment here. I wouldn’t want to be governed by the Germans either

  14. agricola
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    In 1605 it was Catholicism against such democracy as we had at the time. Now there is every indication that it will be a democratically elected government against the will of the people as expressed in a democratic referendum involving the highest turnout of electorate for some time. How did the elected and unelected representatives we have in Parliament get so out of touch with the electorate. Getting it wrong in the next few days or trying to kick the can yet further down the road could trigger the greatest political upheaval the UK has ever experienced.

    • Timaction
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

      Indeed. No taxation without representation! No democracy, no tax!

    • Ed Mahony
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

      ‘In 1605 it was Catholicism against such democracy as we had at the time’

      – And right to point out.

      But don’t forget it was also the Protestant Reformation that introduced religious non-conformism that was directly linked to socialism and anarchy (just look at the English Civil War and the role of non-conformism on the proto-socialistic Levellers and the Diggers).

      The Catholic Church played a key role in suppressing socialistic and anarchical-like politics (often closely related to religious heresy) during the Middle Ages – that exploded during and after the Reformation.

      • agricola
        Posted November 6, 2018 at 7:46 am | Permalink

        The Catholic Church did not stop during the Middle Ages. They did exactly the same during the Spanish Civil War by siding with Franco.

  15. Richard1
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Guy Fawkes and his Co-conspirator extreme religious terrorists got their just deserts without the need for any law on ‘hate’ crime at the time. We now hear it’s more or less one child a day being stabbed to death on the streets of London – over 100 so far this year. The useless Labour Mayor Mr Khan campaigned against stop and search. Crime is up and the police seem to have lost control of the street. Yet still there is a fatuous debate about hate crimes with even the Conservative govt adding a ‘protected characteristic’. How about campaigning at the next election to get rid of all this rubbish – just say a crime is a crime – and push the police out of their offices and cars and back on the streets. We need to reassure the public and deter criminals. Stop pandering to the PC left and tackle the issue robustly – there could be votes in it.

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

      What is the case with London policing? Does London get to keep some of its Council Tax payments towards policing, has this rate gone up I wonder in line with the massive increase in half a million pound apartments being built, does the council tax pay for the community policing? Have community policing numbers gone up in line with the extra revenues received?

      Transport for London has it’s own policing doesn’t it, has this bill and transport police numbers gone up or been cut, lots of these crimes seem to be carried out at tube transport locations?

      How many of these knife crimes are carried out by (identufiable categories of people? ed) How many of the perpetrators under the age of 18? How many are over 18 but not working? We are never given any facts just police number cuts and funding cuts and youth centres being cut are the cause. With one government minister or another saying “no they’re not”.

      Well, can we have a proper investigation and reporting on just known facts, not speculation or counter denial.

    • Bob
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

      It’s amazing how many people support UKIP policies but refuse to vote for them due to some misplaced “tribal” loyalty to one of the legacy parties. Maybe the Brexit sell out will bring people to their senses. Every cloud has a silver lining.

      • Blazeaway
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

        Not so Bob..some clouds have a fudge

      • Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

        You may well have a lot of people on your side, Bob. They may not yet nail their colours to the mast, but if the Conservatives go on like this, stubbornly loyal to Mrs May, then the closet UKIPers could come out of the closet at the last minute (to mix metaphors).

      • libertarian
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        Bob

        Most of us refuse to support UKIP because they are a bunch of useless, ignorant , incompetent fruit loops.

        Ask Farage, he got so fed up with them that he walked away

        • Bob
          Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

          @libertarian

          “they are a bunch of useless, ignorant , incompetent fruit loops.”

          And how would you describe the bulk of the current incumbents at Westminster who are trying to reverse the Referendum decision?

      • Richard1
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

        Possibly through a desire not to see Corbyn & McDonnell in power?

    • Hope
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

      69,000 children between the age of 10-15 were beaten or stabbed in an assault so far this year.

      Brought to you by the very direct policies of May. Murders at epidemic levels, brought to you by the policies of May.

      Today we see and hear drug addicts and criminals on TV say how prison gives them respite from their addictions, support from fellow criminals acting as pseudo families and are provided three meals a day. Gaule is a disgrace. Suggesting giving I am,tea telephones is beyond stupid, it allows beatings to be glorified, drones to deliver drugs, prisoners shamed in making them walk naked in humiliating rituals.

      Liberalisation of the criminal justice system since 1960 has exploded the prison population. It is the cause of increased criminal behaviour. Sentencing has become a joke to criminals. Lord Howard, HS in 1992, would not listen to his liberal civil service who thought the intelligent person realised the police could not combat crime and just wanted a mouth piece to allay public concern. Against the civil service wishes he said prisons can work. Crime came down under him.

      Legalising drugs, condoning bad behaviour under the guise of rehabilitation is a fools game. Hard porridge works. Bring back deterrents that work. And for those that it does change keep them locked up- not for not paying the BBC tax.

    • agricola
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

      Richard 1., the present appalling street crime began with Roy Jenkins in the 60’s and has slowly evolved to the present state of affairs. Political Correctness (PC) is at the heart of it. It has gagged the media and the individual, the truth may no longer be elucidated for fear of censorship or criminalisation. PC has reduced the police force to what we see at present. A PC Home Office dictating a PC agenda at Bramshill among would be senior police officers. Accept the new PC religion or be denied promotion, put all those thief taking ideas to the back of the class. Consequently we have a senior police force of donkeys to lead their potential tigers.
      They plead lack of resources, which may be true. Giving them the means might lead to them doing the job in a none PC fashion and getting results. The home Office would not want that would they. The police are emasculated by PC and are therefore lacking in motivation to the point of becoming totally ineffective. How long before it permeates our military or how long before PC is seen for what it is and dealt with like Guido Fawkes.

      • Original Richard
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

        Unfortunately a majority of our politicians and media have decided that we must be a multi-cultural (not simply a multi-racial) society.

  16. Captain Peacock
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    If May betrays us on Brexit your party is finished John.

    • Nick Martinek
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

      Captain Peacock, It is not a case of “If”. It is a certainty. Chequers is the basis of the UK government’s position: Theresa May is backing Chequers and she says the deal is 95% complete. Everything else is just theatre.

      Reply The Withdrawal Agreement has been said to be 95% complete for sometime. The Future Partnership Agreement does not have a published text and is meant to run in parallel according to the Conservative Manifesto, but not according to the EU. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. If Mrs May wants to sign the Withdrawal Agreement without a proper and generous Partnership Agreement many Conservative MPs will refuse to vote for it. Why should we agree to pay the EU £39bn for another couple of years of uncertainty, and talks where we had lost our main bargaining levers?

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

        The point is that you are split as a party. The very fact that your leader and her cohorts are prepared to cave in speaks volumes and that’s why it’s already a certainty that your party is toast.

        Nobody votes for cowards, liars or split parties.

      • Blazeaway
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

        Reply to reply..that’s what we already have, a full partnership agreement with them at this time, maybe not so generous, but something we are trying to get away from, not join, and not get another arrangement, we never voted for that?

        Then all of the old slogans, ie like nothing is agreed until everything is agreed etc, none of the old slogans are going to get us out of this hole, and as for bargaining levers we never had any, none that I can see anyway.

        So here’s the thing we are now going to recruit from Commonwealth countries for the armed forces, with a population of 65 million makes me wonder what is wrong when we cannot get our own young people into the services, and then others are talking about getting the young’un’s into fishing boats when we take back the fisheries. Mindless bunkum

        • Captain Peacock
          Posted November 6, 2018 at 1:03 am | Permalink

          Just another excuse to bring more foreigners into our country the government are just telling lies.

      • Timaction
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

        You have more trust in your leader than us. Remember the Chequers ambush with the secret white paper written by Olly in conspiracy with Treason May. She has to go or there will be trouble!

      • Barton Hartshorn
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

        The problem is that Chequers could still be approved by Parliament if the Labour party, or significant numbers of their MPs, decide to back it.

  17. Peter
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    Meanwhile on November5 more current government plots.

    According to ‘Conservative Home’ timing of any EU agreement is crucial. Opposition timing is also crucial. Brexiteers are apparently keen to avoid full blame if May needs to be toppled. I am not sure who would allocate such blame – presumably fellow Conservative MPs.

    Talk of which cabinet ministers need to be kept onside and of possible favours for Raab.

    All speculation at the moment and I am in no position to assess its accuracy.

  18. Alan Jutson
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Many Public Firework Displays are run by real Charitable organisations, where the profits are spent locally, on a range of needy causes.
    Lions, Rotary, Roundtable,Unicorns, and many other volunteer Clubs, where service is given free and no member is paid.

  19. Mark B
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    It is curious that we still commemorate the former

    I do not find it curious to celebrate an important event in ones own nations history.

    Many people use now see this event, much like many other pagan and Christian events as an excuse to celebrate and enjoy. If you do not like it you are entitled not to join in but, please do not stop others from doing so.

    Guido Fawkes and his accomplices committed treason. The nursery rhyme of that event has that word in it. I can therefore understand why some people would be so uncomfortable at this time of year as it is a reminder to what happens to those who wish to sell their countrymen out. 😉

    The bangs and whistles are no more annoying on this day then they are on Dewarly. But no one is suggesting banning that, are they ?

    Happy Guy Fawkes Day everyone 🙂

  20. sm
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Re the Gunpowder Plot, I have read somewhere a theory that Robert Cecil (King James’ wily Secretary of State) faked the whole thing, either to genuinely try to re-establish Catholicism or to expose possible traitors – anyone out there know any more about this?

    Reply Untrue

  21. Edwardm
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    Apposite.

  22. Adam
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Burning Fawkes’ effigy is gentle compared with the harsh punishment justice delivered in his time.

    Nowadays, police focus attention on people claiming hurt feelings from mere words or gestures, at the expense of dealing effectively with those who intend & cause physical harm.

    • Captain Peacock
      Posted November 6, 2018 at 1:08 am | Permalink

      Be reminded of the hate crime rules and the same police can tell us we cant investigate burglary but can send a squad to some old lady’s house that sounded her car horn at someone.
      Hate Crime..
      A “hate incident” only needs to be “perceived” by the victim — or a someone else — to be logged by police, with “no evidence” needed. Some police forces even include “unfriendliness” as an indicator of “hate”.

  23. Pete Else
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    “This planned terrorist attack on the British establishment 413 years ago was fortunately thwarted”
    Ironic how the UK government, guilty of so many attacks on dozens of countries and millions of people, get so moralistic when others do the same to them.
    Logically it is the establishment that start wars or repressions so it is they that should be the number one target in that war not the ordinary people that usually suffer instead.

  24. libertarian
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Sadly we are heading towards a situation where a lot more of the UK population are very very angry with the Conservatives, the Government and the corrupt establishment . Unaccountable organisations such as the CPS, Electoral Commission , HMRC amongst many others

    Tories attacked the democratic vote of 17.4 million people and are trying to overturn it

    Tories claiming the jobs miracle whilst attacking the very people that created it

    Tories attacking the self employed with the moronic IR35

    Tories destroying livelihoods with retrospective tax legislation going back 20 years

    Tories destroying lives with Universal credit

    Tories with their pathetic tier 2 visa caps

    Tories with their insane plans to tax the internet and stop the future

    The people are getting very angry with the corrupt establishment

    • Stred
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

      Ian Dale’s article in the Spectator on the retrospective tax legislation and it’s effect is very good. The quotation of Hammond’s previous statement on tax law needing to do the exact opposite is particularly interesting. The man has completely gone native in the HMRC grabbing department.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

        Hammond is an appalling tax to death Chancellor, probably even worse than duplicitous Theresa May as PM. He is damaging the economy, confidence and UK investment hugely.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

      Taxed on wages, taxed on everything we buy and punishment taxes on things we like.

      For that we don’t even get our bins emptied on time, potholes filled nor our burglaries investigated.

      What government we do get wants to outsource responsibility and power to the EU.

    • Nick Martinek
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

      Libertarian, All very true. Gordon Brown’s IR35 is indeed unjust because it maintains that those who can be fired on the spot, and have none of the benefits of employment, should be treated the same as the employed.

  25. Kevin
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    JR writes: “[The Gunpowder Plot, 1605] was a reminder that there was a strong minority in the kingdom that could not accept a Protestant succession and would murder on a mass scale to overturn it.”

    JR has also written: “Only once since 1066 have we been successfully invaded. This was in 1688 by the Dutch when much of the British establishment welcomed the invading force and accepted William and Mary’s claim to the throne.”
    (Source: Post titled, “Strategic thinking for defence”, 11/9/2018).

    This invasion deposed James I’s grandson, James II, the last Catholic monarch of England. In its article on Charles Edward Stuart, Wikipedia writes (with my emphasis added):
    “Many Protestants, including a number of prominent parliamentarians, had been worried that King James aimed to return England to the Catholic fold.”

    JR has also written: “Today is the day of the battle of Culloden [1746]…. After the victory many more Jacobites were killed and other acts of violence committed against the rebel highlanders, leaving Cumberland, the victorious commander, with the name of ‘Butcher’ in parts of Scotland. Elsewhere he was heralded as Sweet William…. How do you see him today?”
    (Source: Post titled, “Sweet William or Butcher”, 16/4/2008).

    Culloden was the defeat of James II’s grandson, Bonnie Prince Charlie.

    JR concludes, today, as follows:
    “We can all come together to be glad that different strands of Christianity now live in tolerance of each other”.

    In its article on the Succession to the Crown Act 2013, Wikipedia writes:
    “The provision of the Act of Settlement requiring the monarch to be a Protestant continues.

    • Nick Martinek
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

      Kevin, Tolerance does not equal approval.

      • Kevin
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

        That is true of toleration of beliefs.

        JR commented that “[The Gunpowder Plot, 1605] was a reminder that there was a strong minority in the kingdom that could not accept a Protestant succession”.

        This is a matter of political toleration, which, the last quote above indicates, is not currently applied to a Catholic successsion.

        • Nick Martinek
          Posted November 6, 2018 at 11:12 am | Permalink

          Kevin, That is because the monarch is the head of the Church of England.

      • Adam
        Posted November 6, 2018 at 9:14 am | Permalink

        Nick Martinek & Kevin:

        Tolerance involves accepting something disliked without acting to resist it.

  26. Everhopeful
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Bonfire night is really the relics of the Celtic festival of Samhain. A law passed after the Gunpowder Plot made sure that thanks for “the joyful day of deliverance” ( ie the foiling of the plot) was bolted onto the celebrations. Don’t think that law was actually repealed until the 1950s. However, like most of the traditions we are allowed to keep, Bonfire night is great for getting us to spend. IMO it has got out of hand. The govt’s new laws on classes of firework and when they can be sold make no difference. The noise,pollution and random, all year round nature of the use of fireworks is just downright dangerous. Fireworks are too noisy,too frightening for animals and far,far too prolific.

  27. Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    The last sentence depends on the existence of free speech. We no longer have that.

    • Bob
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

      @Iago
      In order to have free speech you must allow people to be offended.
      The ostensibly benign act of protecting people from being offended is the way the Deep State has abolished free speech. Due to the dire state of education in this country most people are not sufficiently bright enough to understand this point.

      I hope that doesn’t offend anyone.

  28. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Off-topic, I read on the Telegraph website:

    “Dominic Raab has privately demanded the right to pull Britain out of the EU’s Irish backstop after just three months … ”

    “The hardline pitch by the Brexit Secretary to the Irish government early last week is understood to have “stunned” Irish officials … ”

    Well, when you have Irish officials who believe they are well on the way to achieving their government’s strategic aim of keeping at least Northern Ireland, and preferably the whole of the UK, PERMANENTLY under the rules of both the EU Customs Union and the EU Single Market, and you tell them you want the unilateral right to end that arrangement after just three months, then I suppose they might indeed be “stunned”.

    Or they might be amused at the naivety of the suggestion from an inferior member of the UK government, knowing that what the Irish government wants also suits the “Brexit In Name Only” purposes of the Prime Minister, and the de facto Deputy Prime Minister, as well as the Chancellor of the Exchequer, of the UK government.

    I ask again:

    “What sort of future trade or other “partnership” deal does Theresa May think could be acceptable to the Irish government so that the “backstop” became redundant?”

    Of course the answer is that if the new UK-EU deal did not include provisions with the same legal effect as the “backstop” then the Irish government would veto it.

    That could be in five years or twenty years or maybe even fifty years; surely it is obvious that for as long as the Irish government still had a national veto to exercise and so keep the UK under EU economic control then most likely that is what it would do.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:27 am | Permalink

      http://www.cityam.com/268251/ireland-would-block-uk-demand-quit-irish-backstop-agreement

      “Ireland ‘would block UK demand to quit Irish backstop agreement'”

      Of course it would; and the EU would back it up; and Theresa May could continue to have the fictitious problem of the Irish border as a pretext for doing what she has in any case always wanted to do, keep us as much under the thumb of the EU as she can manage and for as long as she can manage.

      • mancunius
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

        The EU is pretending that the chains of a customs union agreement would be lifted once the technical means to create an invisible border would be in place. We must absolutely 200%resist and refuse this, for it is a fraudulent and hostile piece of trickery. Regardless of how easily goods can or might pass between the two countries in the island of Ireland, the border between them will never be adjudged (by the RoI and the EU) to be ‘invisible’. Like Andersen’s princess and the pea, they will always find something to complain about, because they and the EU want to keep us chained up for all eternity.
        We must say No, and keep on saying it.

        • Stred
          Posted November 6, 2018 at 10:02 am | Permalink

          That’s why May was so keen to scuttle over to suck up to Junker last December. The non-refundable existent border problem, created by the EU and Darth in some deal, is just what she needed to reverse all her previous statements and the manifesto.

          • Stred
            Posted November 6, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

            Sorry.My smart has added the word refundable while the script was not visible.

  29. Ron Olden
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    NOVEMBER 5th and BREXIT

    Although this Guy Fawkes affair, was principally a religious and political plot, Guy Fawkes himself was also insanely anti Scottish.

    And, being an ex soldier, was an expert in explosives, so was just the man.

    Mr Fawkes was suicide bomber. There’s no question that he would have been killed in the explosion and all evidence of his corpse obliterated.

    But the context of this incident and its’ aftermath reveals things about England which nowadays we tend to gloss over.

    England, and the rest of the UK, has not always been the paragon of political stability we see it as now.

    From the Norman Conquest to the Reformation, England was routinely in a state of political Civil War.

    But following the Reformation, it was in a state of political AND religious Civil War, and there have always been dark undercurrents of tensions between Scotland and England with external forces at work, playing Scotland and Ireland against England.

    Wales was lucky in all this. Having been conquered completely at an early stage no one, (including Wales itself) bothered to invite Wales to into this ‘carnival of bigotry’.

    It was just as well that Elizabeth 1st was such a clever woman and canny political operator, or the whole thing could have come crashing down and tuned into a blood bath.

    It was only following the actual Civil War, when England and Wales learned to put religious tensions on the back burner, and the eventual complete defeat of the Jacobites that the political stability we now take for granted was secured.

    But until VERY recently, these religious, and associated political tensions have been the cause of violence and terrorism in Northern Ireland.

    They still haven’t gone away.

    There were outbreaks of (superficially at least) religious rioting at the time of the Scottish Independence Referendum, and it also manifests itself in the tensions between Celtic and Rangers Football supporters in Scotland.

    Liverpool and Everton Football Clubs, respectively, were also essentially Catholic and Protestant teams.

    Happily the religious ingredient in all this has now gone from England and Wales and almost entirely from Scotland , but deep underlying political tensions of a similar nature still remain, and manifest themselves is a variety of ways.

    Most recently notably in the EU and Scottish Referenda.

    The big risk of these Referenda was that they would be be overtly divisive. Which they were, and, are in the process of creating realignments in politics. People whom, in the past would never have dreamed of voting Tory have now been doing so.

    But now that the damage has been done, it would be catastrophic to disregard their outcomes.

    Elections are there to resolve differences peaceably, not set the ball rolling in a never ending political guerrilla war, so making them irresolvable.

    As for November 5th itself, it’s not always appreciated how massive this Guy Fawkes explosion would have been.

    It would have razed to the ground everything within a several hundred yard radius, including blast damage on the other side of the river. The fires might have burned down most of London.

    Commemorating the event was a politically motivated decision in itself. The idea being to inflate James 1st’s status and the Protestant ascendancy.

    The commemorations started in the same month Parliament passed the ‘Thanksgiving Act’, which establishing an annual church celebration with sermons and prayers on 5 November.

    Whilst the official ceremonies waned over time, the popular festivities marked by bell-ringing, bonfires and fireworks grew in popularity. By the late 18th Century the day was increasingly used to settle local scores, or as an excuse for disorder. The celebrations often got out of hand.

    In 1910, Firework Manufacturers started branding the occasion as ‘Fireworks Night’ to cash in on the act.

    Considering the things we regulate for Health and Safety reasons nowadays I’m surprised that it’s still so easy to buy Fireworks. They are after all explosives.

    Blue fireworks are the most unstable owing to the ingredients they contain to make them burn blue. Normal orange/yellow flame coloured ones are the safest.

  30. Chris
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    Remember, Remember….
    This article from Leave.eu sums up the whole charade of May’s Brexit:

    https://leave.eu/remember-remember/
    “….After more than two weeks of white noise, Brexiteers are bracing themselves for a gunpowder plot bang.

    “The Sunday Times revealed yesterday that May has extracted “concessions” from the EU to the effect we will remain in the Customs Union indefinitely meaning there will be no more talk of backstops…….Theresa May hopes interminable membership of both the Single Market and the Customs Union will be stomached….”

    I believe the situation we find ourselves in to be totally unacceptable. Does May (and her cabinet) actually realise what she has done? The blatant betrayal and treachery are quite extraordinary. To me she seems completely without moral compass and how she can fool herself that she has enacted the will of the people as expressed in the Referendum defeats me. My own view is that she knows full well what she has done, but is so arrogant and so contemptuous of the voters that it simply does not matter to her. I will never forgive her or the Tory Party.

    • Andy
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

      No. She is delivering what you voted for – an entirely predictable mess.

      • mancunius
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

        No, that’s what you and your fellow-Remainers have engineered.

      • Oggy
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

        You do talk some crap, May is a Remainder just like you.

      • NickC
        Posted November 6, 2018 at 11:19 am | Permalink

        Andy, Can you read the Chequers plan? It plainly states that we will sign treaties with the EU that put the UK under the control of the EU on various programs and competences of the EU from the single market in goods and “agri-food” (ie CAP), to a common customs union, to security and military subjugation, to “fishing opportunities” (ie CFP), and on and on. Being controlled by the EU means we are remaining in the EU.

  31. ian
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Do not know why you all blame parties, you the voters who do the voting, at every election, there is always independent people standing for election in nearly all areas in the country, most are lucky to receive 1000 votes, why, you are lead by the media, with mainly Tory and labour party people in the news with a few Lib Dems and now and again green and UKIP party members, you never have an independent in the news, so you do not bother to find out about them as someone to vote for, this suit the two main parties down to the ground with big media support for them and allows them to vote through all the thing you hate so much whichever of the two parties you vote for, they have same aims, to take away your freedoms,

    It only because of the referendum, that you are starting to wake up to the fact that you the voters have been living a lie and that democracy is just a word. In some country, the people are fighting back but not hear in the UK.

  32. JustGetOnWithBrexit
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    In these fraught times…all we are left with is writing to our MPs.

    I know they don’t listen, but I cannot lie down and let May and her Remainers trample all over us.
    ……………………………………………………………..

    Dear (Local Tory MP and Member of the Cabinet),

    I am writing to you, as a lifelong Conservative voter, living in a household, with 2 other Tory voters.

    Following Mrs May’s act of betrayal of the 2017 Tory Election Manifesto (to Leave the EU), her incompetent negotiations (deliberate or otherwise), I felt I must write to you, as I am now an absolutely appalled, Tory voter.

    I see Mrs May as someone who is content to destroy Democracy in the UK (by thwarting Brexit), and with it, the hopes of the Tory Party to even exist, after her betrayal.

    In a previous reply to me, you have attempted to explain how Chequers, is ”leaving the EU and respecting the Referendum”. We totally disagree about that.

    Events and public opinion against Chequers (only 4% voter support), now confirm that nobody believes that Chequers is really leaving the EU. Matters are now even worse with a possible, indefinite, lock-in to the CU.

    Chequers is also worse than being in the EU (we wouldn’t even have voting rights!). Mrs May and the Cabinet all know that.

    Perhaps Mr Geoffrey Cox’s presence in Cabinet Meetings, will bring the Party back to reality, and will clarify the enormous Brexit SNAFU, that Mrs May has single-handedly created.

    As you know, Mrs May is now isolated and is clinging to power, only by her fingertips.

    I am letting you know that, as a previous supporter of the Conservative Party and of you, as my local MP… I have NO CONFIDENCE in Mrs May…and NO CONFIDENCE in her Cabinet.

    Please use your influence to persuade Mrs May to do the honourable thing, and resign, with some dignity, before she is removed.

    I truly hope that my Party has the will to survive, and will organise for a speedy removal of the Prime Minister, to be replaced by someone who believes in Brexit…who has the will and ability to deliver it…and most of all has the moral fibre to respect the democratic Vote of the People.

    If Brexit is not delivered at all, or a Chequers style sell-out is delivered, it will be the end of the Tory Party.

    If that happens, I hope that at the next Election, the voters in your Constituency residents are given an option to vote for an Independent candidate, because that is where my (our) vote(s) will go.

    Yours sincerely

    • Andy
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

      Your Brexit not going well? Shame.

      Forget angry old voters. The wrath of youth is coming.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

        Only 36% of you youngsters bothered to get out of bed and vote in the referendum.
        Some way to go,it appears, before you get to the higher emotion of “wrath”

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted November 6, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

        Andy

        How is the Students Union doing in Financial matters of late.

        With all of their intelligence to call on.you would think they would be in profit, not nearly Bankrupt.

        Students grow up eventually, just like we all did.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 6, 2018 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        Demographics aren’t on the side of youth I’m afraid . 54% of people are over 50 by 2030 64% will be over 50.

        This would be the same youth who run the NUS would it, you know the anti austerity mob, who have had to sack their workers have a pension black hole of £12 million and made a £3million loss last year. You weren’t one of their advisors by any chance Andy?

        Sadly the wrath of youth won’t happen because most can’t be bothered to get out of bed

  33. Miss MBJ
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    The people these days cannot apply information and use it else where. The level of general intelligence and ability to reason has fallen .We have Doctors and dentists and lawyers who are not bad at their job but they have been streamlined into a thought process which does not allow for analysis and possibilities. We have religions which have strange codes and beliefs, we have some who actually think they can blow themselves up and they will reappear in some after life,we have ridiculous rituals where many face the same way and all perform ridiculous movements. We have crowds of church goers singing songs about love and forgiveness where incense is swung about like some medieval cleansing ceremony ( then go outside the building and talk how they hate some and love those special people who are well healed).There are some who don’t believe in Darwinism and openly say that they they find it offensive to have ape ancestors. Sorry John … Thickos all around !

    • Miss MBJ
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      of course heeled. Freudian slip or ambiguity ?

  34. Nigel Seymour
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    J, Not as bad as the Brexit plot…413 years ago parliament would have suffered ‘minor damage’…

  35. Yossarion
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    The Bridgewater Carnival was started in celebration of the defeat of the plot that a local Jesuit Priest from Nether Stowey was one of the co conspirators. The battle of Sedgemoor during the 1685 Monmouth rebellion and from which the English Bill of Rights 1688/89 was put on Statute ( the Scotsman and closet catholic Tony Blair tried getting rid of)
    So we are living in religious harmony? England’s been wiped of the face of the earth into nine EU Regions against laws that were there to stop foreigners making laws over us and everything is OK??.
    https://www.bridgwatercarnival.org.uk/gallery/history/

  36. Hugh Rose
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    “We can all come together to be glad that different strands of Christianity now live in tolerance of each other, ………………….” Have you ever been to Glasgow or Northern Ireland?

    • rose
      Posted November 6, 2018 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

      That is tribal, not religious.

      A very good example of why we should not now be repeating the mistakes of the 17th century in transplanting other nations here. One nation per land is enough.

  37. Fairweather
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    I am confused…. please help
    I thought the Irish border question was a ruse to stop Brexit and the border issue could be resolved by not having a hard border at the border but could use electronic controls.also that there was nothing about borders in the Good Friday agreement
    Now I am informed that there is an International agreement not to have any border controls and Mrs May is in a predicament because the government cannot renege on an International agreement. Is this true?

    Reply No

  38. acorn
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    For those who still think the government has to borrow its own previously spent currency in order to have some to spend on public goods and services; this is what the Conservative government don’t want you to know.

    The Conservatives have borrowed more in the last 7 years than ALL Labour Governments did in 33 years! Conservatives: £670 Billion in the last 7 years (2010-17) Labour:£500 Billion in 33 years. The Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years.

    • libertarian
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

      acorn

      but but but YOU told us governments dont need to tax and borrow they use MMT and just print their own money

    • Richard1
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

      A meaningless statistic. the conservative coalition took office when Labour has taken the budget deficit to over 10% of GDP. Of course aggregate borrowing would be high during they years during which the Labour deficit was brought down.

  39. rose
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    It is horrifying thinking of the Brighton bombing you were all subjected to, including those who didn’t survive, or who were maimed for life. It is indeed strange that Mrs Burning Injustices hasn’t thought of putting the date into our calendar.

  40. Steve
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    Off topic –

    I see channel 4 has jumped firmly on the remain wagon.

    • Bob
      Posted November 6, 2018 at 12:05 am | Permalink

      “I see channel 4 has jumped firmly on the remain wagon.”

      Jumped on? they’ve were never off?

  41. Ed Mahony
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    As a Roman Catholic (half Catholic / half Protestant), I strongly condemn the actions of Guy Fawkes (it terrorism and treason), Catholic King Philip Spain and his Armada, and Queen Mary I executing Protestants, and more – terrible evils in themselves but also things that helped to fuel anti-Catholicism. In other words, Catholics played a key role in fuelling anti-Catholicism.

    Catholics have to admit and apologise for the terrible things done in the name of Catholicism here. And also be generous about the GREAT things achieved by Protestants in this country – both in a secular and religious sense.

    But I urge people, also, not to forget the great things achieved by Catholics here in a secular sense (as well as in a religious sense). Not forgetting how so much of our country was founded by Catholic England: Monarchy, Parliament, Judiciary, Oxford, Cambridge, Cathedrals, Medieval Churches, Guilds, Grammars Schools, Eton, Winchester, Magna Carta, The Barons and nobles, the Franciscans who looked after the poor, and so on. Shakespeare was Catholic. As was Elgar, Evelyn Waugh, Tolkien of Lord of the Rings, and many of our finest commanders and soldiers of WW2.

    It was the Catholic Church who developed the concept of British Patriotism back in the Middle Ages. And the Catholic Church today playing a key role in preserving the concept of the British Family – key to our well-being in so many senses.

    God Bless Her Majesty the Queen, The Christian Churches of this nation, Parliament, and the Armed Forces.

    • Ed Mahony
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

      And as a Catholic, I also strongly condemn the corruption and evils (but not the doctrine) of the Catholic Church before and during the Protestant Reformation, including the Pope claiming political power / influence over England that he didn’t actually morally possess (at least according to Catholic teaching) – an abuse of power.

      • Mitchel
        Posted November 6, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

        The history of Popes- illegitimately -wielding political power dates back to Pope Leo III claiming the right to crown Charlemagne “Emperor of the Romans” in 800AD using an outright forgery “the donation of Constantine”which supposedly gave the Roman Pontiff such rights in the western half of the Empire after the Emperor Constantine had moved the Imperial capital to Constantinople.Naturally the real Roman Emperor(then Eirene of Athens)refused to recognise this and so,ridiculously,Leo tried to invoke Frankish/Salic Law which prohibited female succession-as with Queen Victoria and Hanover later)to delegitimize Eirene whose rule was perfectly acceptable under Roman Law.

    • Edward2
      Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

      Very well said Ed.
      You have a fine way with words

    • Norman
      Posted November 6, 2018 at 3:31 am | Permalink

      Dear Ed – I don’t doubt your sincerity. But the basics have not changed. Reformation was needed, and liberated the people of England, and many others around the world, to get to the Bible in their own tongue, and to interpret it as it was meant to be interpreted, in the Spirit, by grace, through faith. I commend to you The Book of Martyrs, by John Foxe, and the description of the Church of Thyatira, in Revelation 2. Notice all the ‘pluses’ (just as you state above) – but also the devastating minuses, that connect to Revelation 17. Our distinctive freedoms (now largely abused) and underlying national character, are so intimately caught up in this. However, these things are a mystery, hidden from most, in these days of apostasy.

  42. Anonymous
    Posted November 5, 2018 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    5th November ?

    15th October to 15th November, more like. Fireworks going off randomly sold for “Every occaision !”

    I have found myself stranded with a petrified dog out in the open several times in the last few weeks as a DIY display of some sort kicks off. By the 5th I’m tired of fireworks in the same way as I’m tired of Christmas decorations (out last week in the shops.)

    It’s nearly midnight and people are setting them off still.

    Ban private sales of fireworks. The Brits are not grown up enough to have them.

    We’d be better off under German rule.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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