Agreement fever – time to cool down

The UK government is trying to get worked up about a possible EU agreement.
Just remember this is not a possible future trading or partnership agreement. It is not anything the UK actually wants. They are talking about the EU’s Withdrawal Agreement, which contains many things including £39bn that Leave voters do not agree with.
I just hope the Cabinet realises in time that trying to sign such a deal will go down badly with many voters, and would place the UK in a very weak position. There are plenty of Conservative MPs who have said they would not vote for it, and it will need primary legislation. The government cannot commit the UK to this. Only Parliament can.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

49 Comments

  1. Peter
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    A timely reminder. I just wish we were at a stage where a Withdrawal Bill was out of the question – either because the Cabinet say so, or because parliament votes it down.

    • Hope
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 9:54 am | Permalink

      JR, you and colleagues have been proven to be weak, full of hot air wind since December last year when it became resoundingly obvious she changed direction completely. May’s behaviour alone irrespective of the issue should have seen her thrown out on her ear. May was afraid this year before summer recess as she proposed to close parliament early. She knew it was your last chance to oust her without delaying Brexit.

      It strikes me you have missed the goal and not even attempted to shoot. No point whinging when you lack the courage to act. Your party is finished whatever the outcome now. The public know a cheat when they see one. May is finished, she does not care as she would leave after this term in any event. Her goal achieved to keep the uk in the EU as vassal state.

    • Alan Joyce
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:43 am | Permalink

      Dear Mr. Redwood,

      Following reports that Dominic Raab is furious at being undermined by David Lidington I guess he is feeling rather like David Davis did when he too realised the extent of the Prime Minister’s duplicity.

      If the reports are true then it is rather his own fault. At the time I thought that his acceptance of the post of Brexit Secretary was bizarre to say the least.

      Alan Joyce

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

        Alan

        Anyone who is given a top job, as he was, and then has half of it taken away within week, and then does nothing about it, is Weak !

        Full Stop.

  2. Peter
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    Latest paper talk is that she will cobble together a deal with Cabinet agreement and then try to rush it through Parliament before MPs have a chance to review it at length and see what an absolute stinker it is.
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1042903/Brexit-news-update-Theresa-May-Brexit-deal-European-Union-UK-Parliament-vote

    If MPs don’t spot that promptly they are either a bit slow or a bit gullible.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

      I recalled that David Davis used to talk about the CRAG legislation and turned up his Written Statement from December 2017:

      https://www.parliament.uk/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2017-12-13/HCWS342

      “Procedures for the Approval and Implementation of EU Exit Agreements”

      “How will the Withdrawal Agreement be approved and brought into force?”

      “The Withdrawal Agreement will need to be signed by both parties and concluded by the EU and ratified by the UK before it can enter into force … ”

      “In the UK, the Government has committed to hold a vote on the final deal in Parliament as soon as possible after the negotiations have concluded. This vote will take the form of a resolution in both Houses of Parliament and will cover both the Withdrawal Agreement and the terms for our future relationship. The Government will not implement any parts of the Withdrawal Agreement – for example by using Clause 9 of the European Union (Withdrawal) bill – until after this vote has taken place.

      In addition to this vote, the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 (CRAG) normally requires the Government to place a copy of any treaty subject to ratification before both Houses of Parliament for a period of at least 21 sitting days, after which the treaty may be ratified unless there is a resolution against this. If the House of Commons resolves against ratification the Government can lay a statement explaining why it considers the treaty should still be ratified and there is then a further 21 sitting days during which the House of Commons may decide whether to resolve again against ratification. The Government is only able to ratify the agreement if the House of Commons does not resolve against the agreement.”

      After which,

      “If Parliament supports the resolution to proceed with the Withdrawal Agreement and the terms for our future relationship, the Government will bring forward a Withdrawal Agreement & Implementation Bill to give the Withdrawal Agreement domestic legal effect … ”

      But of course we know that Theresa May is a liar and a cheat who may find some way to wriggle out of this sequence if her party permits her to do so.

  3. Newmania
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    No-one wished to give away £39 billion , your political mistake has cost us all that money

    • libertarian
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:10 am | Permalink

      Newmania

      Woah hold on just the other week you and the remain troll club on here were telling us that the £39 billion is what we OWED the EU for our ongoing commitments.

      Make your mind up

  4. Lorna Tay
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    It is necessary to conclude a Withdrawal Agreement to ensure no border in Ireland. The UK and the Irish government have committed to that. Your remarks above about the First World War ring hollow when you are obviously willing to put your fixation on a hard Brexit ahead of securing enduring peace on my island

    • Edward2
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:12 am | Permalink

      There is a border now, you can see it on any map you look at.
      There is a TV programme which follows the work of customs officers in the Republic of Ireland.
      It shows them stopping vehicles as they travel from North to South due to different tax and duty rates on things like motor cars.
      Why are you worried, all parties involved say they do not want any further border restrictions?

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      Lorna

      Just out of interest what if the UK were to leave the EU, and leave the operation of the border open and working as is now, would you still have an objection, do you think it would still be workable, or do you think the EU would want to erect one.

      Do you think the people on both sides would be honest, and and not smuggle goods or people either way.

      Would be interested to know your views.

      • Lorna Tay
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

        Alan, your question shows you are ignorant of WTO law. I can’t help you if you do not understand that states are not allowed to pick and choose which borders they will leave open and which they will control.

        • Alan Jutson
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

          Lorna fully aware of WTO rules, just asked you a simple hypothetical question, seems like you only want to complain, but offer no possible solutions.
          We could offer free trade deals to the whole World if we wanted to, or we could keep things as they are.
          The EU is also signed up to WTO terms, so your answer could be reversed. !

          How about trying to think positively for a solution !

        • Edward2
          Posted November 10, 2018 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

          That is wrong Lorna
          WTO rules allow differences based on risk assessments.

    • isp001
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:59 am | Permalink

      “It is necessary to conclude a Withdrawal Agreement to ensure no border in Ireland. The UK and the Irish government have committed to that.”

      1. it is a political commitment not a legal agreement, that means the way in which that problem is solved is not fixed
      2. the UK has unilaterally promised that there will be no border, whatever monitoring being needed taking place away from the border. Until the Irish state what they will implement it is not possible to make progress on the issue – thus if anyone would be in breach it would be Ireland not the UK.

    • Stred
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:20 am | Permalink

      The only people threatening an end to the peace in Ireland are the Irish Nationalists, over a non-existent physical border and when there is already an economic and administrative border. That May is trying to keep the whole UK tied to the EU because of this nonsense tells us that the backstop is a convenient invention cooked up between the Irish politicians, the Commission and Remainers serving big business. This will not help goodwill and commerce and hopefully the larger contingent of sensible Irish will see that this trickery will not help secure Irish exports.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

        Correct, it is all a red herring and a Tory pretext to keep us under EU rule.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:55 am | Permalink

      Lorna Tay

      Then I hope it’s appreciated that the UK have given up the right to home rule for peace in Ireland.

      No. The blind hatred of the English will go on as usual – despite the fact that our towns and cities cannot in any way be described as English.

      • Anonymous
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

        The real question here is who is threatening whom ?

        Tell me. Who would fire the first shot if a border were introduced ? There would be no army or Royal police. So would violence be acceptable in this day and age ?

        The irony of all this is that were it not for the IRA Ireland would have been united decades ago. Germany, South Africa, American civil rights… all those great problems surmounted without war.

        The English would have been only too glad to be free of this problem.

        For wanting home rule we are now under threat of pro EU terrorism.

    • Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

      Perhaps peace on your island is in your own hands.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

      When you say “ensure no border in Ireland” is that intentional mendacity or mere stupidity? It is certainly on a par with Irish Europe Minister Helen McEntee ruling out “anything that would imply a border on the island of Ireland”:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/07/the-big-issue-is-the-withdrawal-agreement-not-the-irish-backstop/#comment-971595

      “We have been very very clear from day one, there cannot be a physical border and that means ruling out cameras, that means ruling out technology, that means ruling out anything that would imply a border on the island of Ireland, it is not an option for us”.

      At no time since partition has the UK government ever committed to having no border in Ireland, that is unless and until the island is unified in accordance with criteria which have been agreed with the Irish government and politicians in the north and formalised in the Belfast Agreement.

      On the other hand the UK government has not only made a clear commitment that it will not create any new infrastructure at the border it has already had that pledge enshrined in domestic legislation:

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/section/10/enacted

      “Nothing in … this Act authorises regulations which …

      (b) create or facilitate border arrangements between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after exit day which feature physical infrastructure, including border posts, or checks and controls, that did not exist before exit day and are not in accordance with an agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU.”

      Has the Irish government done that? If not, why not? Can you explain to us why the Irish government, and also the EU, somehow need the UK to act further to prevent them doing something which they themselves insist would be totally wrong and which they don’t ever want to do, which would be anathema to them?

  5. Duncan
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    The Eurosceptic wing’s a busted flush and May knows it. She’ll crush you and you’ll capitulate. It’s the contemporary nature of the Tory party.

    It is my firm belief that this vile PM will betray British democracy and she’ll do it with a left wing smile on her face and with her boot on your throat

    The Tories depose one of the greatest PM’s this nation’s ever seen in MT and yet they tolerate this Labour socialist as our leader

    The Tory party and indeed the UK is dying

    • Kenneth
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:49 am | Permalink

      I have always believed that the toppling of Mrs Thatcher was the green light for the entryists.

      Mrs May is the worst example should be stripped of Conservative Party membership

    • Peter
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      We will soon see how May gets on. Slim majority. Eurosceptics and DUP to be overcome and Labour not now likely to do a Conservative Prime Minister any favours.

      I don’t know how it will all pan out. Fingers crossed, Withdrawal Bill fails to get through Parliament.

      • Old person
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

        What will be interesting is to see what Sinn Féin does. They have not engaged in a Northern Ireland Assembly for some time, and have temporarily lost their political voice.

        If the four Sinn Féin MPs shelve their principles for five months and make their parliamentary oaths (with fingers crossed) for voting rights in parliament, Mrs May’s position would be more tenuous.

        In addition, the legal question on the ability of revoking Article 50 has been referred back to the European Court away from our Supreme Court. You could not make this up.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:50 am | Permalink

      Sad but true.

      • Turboterrier.
        Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

        Anonymous

        Agreed

  6. complex
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    Look, this EU is a very complex and complicated thing, if we want to have a future with them we have to leave in an orderly way. If we want to have years of hostility and strife with the resultant consequences to trade and mobility then we can just crash out- that’s the choice

    Don’t forget we sat at the top table for nigh on forty years making this EU thing

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

      “Don’t forget we sat at the top table for nigh on forty years making this EU thing”

      Actually our lofty governor-clubs did that.

      Whichever way we voted we got more cronyism, leftism, political correctness, crime and immigration.

      BTW revolt is endemic throughout the EU.

      We are not allowed to discuss this, however.

  7. Mark B
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    The Withdrawal Agreement should be about settling our affairs, it should not be used as a means to Remain joined at the hip of the EU.

    As mentioned by others here, the Irish government is deeply concerned about what BREXIT means to them and their economy.It is therefore a real shame that our politicaians cannot see the longterm benefits to us of BREXIT and cannot fight for our rights. The agreement the government has negotiated would destroy any such advantages. Some feel it is down to incompetence. I feel it is down to menditious treachery.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

      Mark B

      Some feel it is down to incompetence. I feel it is down to menditious treachery.

      More than a bit of both, I would have added ignorance and arrogance to the mix.

      They sure are not going to admit they got this and the true feelings of the 17.4m wrong

  8. mickc
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    My previous contempt for May has now been replaced by respect. She is a totally useless Prime Minister, incapable of looking after the UK’s interests…but she is a brilliant politician. She obviously worked out long ago that her opponents in the Party are too weak and scared to get rid of her. She has theref6played it long, dragg5out the EU negotiations until there is no time left and the UK has to accept whatever it offered.
    Truly she ranks with Harold Wilson in political skill.

  9. Peter
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    Acorn was scathing yesterday about the Conservative government and its “ spiv City sponsors “.

    I agreed with Acorn’s remarks, but said that I would prefer to deal exclusively with our own spivs rather than also having to deal with a rafte of overseas spivs. My post got deleted.

    So, on reflection, maybe I am putting too much trust in the government to deliver the Brexit we, as a nation, voted for.

    Maybe Duncan is right.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

      Peter

      maybe I am putting too much trust in the government to deliver the Brexit we, as a nation, voted for.

      Far too much

    • acorn
      Posted November 9, 2018 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

      Peter, the EU is not particular interested in UK casino style financial gambling. 90% of what is called “trading” in London, is simply punters “gambling” on financial instruments, in exactly the same manner as gambling on horses; dogs or camels. Betting on pairs of currencies; interest rate swaps and a train load of “derivatives” that have no socio-economic value whatsoever.

      All the the foreign exchange hedging needed for world trading for a year, is done in four days of currency trading, the rest of the year is just punters gambling, mostly on margin using Broker credit. Spiv City, is like all casinos, the house always has a net win.

      • Peter
        Posted November 10, 2018 at 7:59 am | Permalink

        I see. I just use a broader definition of the term spiv.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 10, 2018 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

        acorn

        Oh dear. Total ignorance

        The EU is a non elected , commission its not a financial institution

        If you mean EU based banks and trading houses then you are totally and completely wrong ( again)

  10. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    It is hard to comprehend just how and why so-called Brexiteer Conservative MPs have continued to say they support Mrs May. It has been obvious for many months that she is duplicitous and untrustworthy. If, as seems likely, MPs connive with her in this betrayal, the consequences for democracy and the future of the “main” political parties look dire.

  11. Richard1
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    I think Labour might abstain at the last minute to make sure it gets through and then hope for an election in the fall out. Beware

  12. Adam
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    £39bn costs 25m UK households over £1500 each!

    Theresa May should send a £1500 EU invoice for her ‘Agreement’ to each household & see if they approve of & pay for her nonsense. Many loyal UK citizens might regard it as a case of demanding money with menaces via a remote foreign power.

    As Remainers are so much in favour of Losers having a 2nd opinion, each of them could pay £3000 if they value the EU that much.

  13. Nig l
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Any one in any doubt about the anti competitive pro German nature of the EC should read about the Dyson court case which he has now won.

    After extensive lobbying by EC manufacturers they decided that it was legal for vacuum cleaners to be tested for efficiency not picking up any dust and that, because it was not explicitly against any law ‘different’ motors could be used for the tests than sold to the public. Dieselgate springs to mind.

    Instead of sitting at a computer and pumping out one eyed tosh, Andy and his friends should listen to someone who really knows about the Single Market.

  14. Shieldsman
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    I e-mailed my MP – Michael Gove a Cabinet member as follows: –
    Do you as a Cabinet member know what the PM and Ollie Robbins are up to in the Tunnel
    I do not think so!!!

    Are you being conned? The Conservative Party is in Government and it was David Cameron that under-took to respect the will of the people and to leave the EU.
    On this you are backsliding. The Irish Border is being used to tie the UK to the EU’s apron strings – Customs and EU aquis plus EUCJ.

    You are being fooled and it will be the death knell for the Conservative Party. Why would I want to vote for a cack-handed lot that has a PM who lies and fails to honour her words.

    Will I get a reply – NO.

    £39 billion for a withdrawal agreement (not a trade agreement) which splits the Union, someone must be out of their minds. You must vote it down.

  15. Mick
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/08/eu-demands-fishing-rights-british-waters-price-all-uk-brexit/#comments
    Like all bullies just stand up to them give them a smack and a bloody nose and they will back off, just leave and if that means no deal so be it, at least our country will be better off to the sum of £39 billion which can be well spent here and not to some goat hearders in Spain

  16. Buried deep
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    We should be getting out of agreements with the EU. We need other sources of import,
    sustainable.
    The EU has often, of course, been cliched as a sinking ship. Should we use our telescopes once again?
    Italy is jubilant now with the first leader for….somm time showing he is awake.Austria too, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic. What a peel of church bells they are of times past.
    La-de-da-DONG! Somethig stirring in Europe, again.Yet again.
    We should trade elsewhere and build up our armed forces for Climate Change disasters, floods and such. They could help.

  17. mancunius
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    But Parliament is stuffed full of MPs and peers who are happy to sign away Britain’s freedoms.

    My own (Labour) MP believes that because a ‘majority’ of ‘her voters’ in ‘her constituency’ voted to remain, that means she is entitled to attempt to subvert the democratic process.

  18. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Many years ago there was a story that in the opening session of the EU Parliament members had been told that their task was to represent the EU to their constituents, not the other way as some of them may have thought … I recall that now because it is clear that Theresa May does not see her role in the Brexit negotiations as being exclusively on our side working for our national interests, but more to act as a more or less impartial intermediary seeking to strike acceptable compromises between the interests of the UK and those of the EU and its member states. And especially of course the interests of the Irish Republic, which by some assessments stands to lose proportionately more from a mismanaged Brexit than any other country including the UK, but which by its obduracy over the border may foolishly bring that fate down upon its own head. For sure we would have to be stupid to think that the Irish government would ever willingly allow us to free ourselves from the rules of the EU Customs Union and the EU Single Market once we had agreed to remain bound by them on a “temporary” basis.

  19. Ron Olden
    Posted November 9, 2018 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    Jo Johnson'[s contracted the fever th0ugh.

    Despite being a Remainer he voted to invoke Article 50, for the Brexit Act and stood on the 2017 Tory Manifesto, defeating the the Lib Dem candidate who wanted a second Referendum

    Jo now says Brexit is not going the way he ‘was promised’ and it’s the worst crisis since the Second World War (He’s obviously unaware of the Cuban Missile Crisis).

    But what was Jo ‘promised’ and when? Was he promised something the rest of us weren’t? And who promised him it? His brother?

    And given that Jo Johnson voted Remain anyway he clearly wasn’t satisfied that the ‘promise’ was better than Remaining. But he still voted to invoke Article 50, and for the Brexit Act!

    Now he wants another ‘advisory’ Referendum to ‘advise’ Parliament to vote to stay in.

    What am I paying Jo nearly 80 Grand year and giving him vast research facilities for?

    Can’t he advise himself?

    Given Jo’s political gyrations and the ‘crisis (which he says) it’s unleashed, some people might conclude that he either too stupid or dishonest to be a Member of Parliament.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 10, 2018 at 11:37 am | Permalink

      Ron

      The Johnson family have very close ties with the EU. More than any that I know. Yo can make a good start by searching what Mr. Johnson did whist he was in the EU. Their father that is 😉

  20. Nigel Seymour
    Posted November 10, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    J, Can art50 be extended lawfully by the UK gov and is there a procedure involved prior to 29 March? i.e. parliament could repeal the art50 act?

    Rgds

    Reply Rescinding A 50 requires the consent of all other member states of the EU, the repeal of the EU Withdrawal Notification Act and the repeal or amendment of the EU Withdrawal Act. To do such things would require the EU to allow the UK to reinstate membership with all the opt outs etc, the Mrs May government to draft and bring in the legislation, and Mr Corbyn to effectively enter a coalition with her to get it through, given the large number of Conservative MPs who would oppose such measures. Mrs May has so far always ruled out repeal or amendment of the 2 big bits of legislation she has achieved.

Post a Comment

Your email is never published nor shared. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

*
*

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

  • John’s Books

  • Email Alerts

    You can sign up to receive John's blog posts by e-mail by entering your e-mail address in the box below.

    Enter your email address:

    Delivered by FeedBurner

    The e-mail service is powered by Google's FeedBurner service. Your information is not shared.

  • Map of Visitors

    Locations of visitors to this page