Is that it? The Political declaration with the EU

As expected, the latest draft of the Political document about our possible future partnership with the EU is empty of any enforceable content of benefit to the UK. It is an invitation to trade and customs talks extending over an unspecified period, delaying our exit from the EU. Far from taking back control of our money, our laws, and our borders, this Agreement if signed alongside the Withdrawal Agreement which is legally binding means we stay in and have no unilateral right to leave if the talks prove fruitless.

Under this non binding proposal our fish are still in play for a future negotiation. The Irish backstop remains etched legally into the Withdrawal Agreement, with words about a future technological solution as a possibility. There is plenty about the need for future regulatory convergence and for the UK to keep adopting EU laws we have no say over. The proposed format of the Future Partnership would be an EU Association Agreement. These Agreements are designed to bring potential member states of the EU progressively into line and under legal obligation to the body they wish to join.

This disappointing document confirms that this negotiation does not deliver Brexit, and does not give us control of our laws, money and borders, any time soon, with the risk that it might never properly do so.

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240 Comments

  1. Mick
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    After watching the Eu negotiations statement in the HOC , can you tell us Mr Redwood if there is anybody in Westminster that doesn’t have a self interest in us staying in the Eu i.e most mps, if this deal/agreement is truly in the best interest of the UK because I’m sure I’m not the only one confused for it to be a good or bad deal

    • Mark B
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

      Good morning.

      This is truly a dark day. I think this is the first time our kind host has not put up an article for us to comment on in years ? I think he has been rather busy, and who could blame him.

    • Hope
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:27 am | Permalink

      Once more we see May in front of cameras and in Westminster lying. We were promised a comprehensive trade deal ready to sign in a nano second after we leave. Instead May has produced an aspiration which cannot be enforced and, in any event, leads back to the EU.

      May has lied, been underhand, devious, disregarded Ministerial code, breached collegiate cabinet, brokenall her red lines, broke manifesto, nothing left of twelve points from the Lancaster speech. Betrayed your party, betrayed the DUP and 17.4 million people making electoral democracy void. Yet you all support this dishonest PM.

      Per guido Heidi Allen calling to stop Brexit after she stood to be elected to leave the EU and CU and SM. This exemplifies your party is prepared to decieve and lie just to get elected.

      Time for you all to explain yourselves or act.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      Mick,

      Our remaining in the EU is pre-ordained. The establishment is geared towards it and will ride roughshod over the people’s wishes. In so doing, they will employ every underhanded trick in the book including scare tactics, lies, deceitful lauded speeches like May’s Lancaster House speech, and endless platitudes.

      We owe her kind nothing and must see to it that they are roundly trounced at the earliest opportunity. Personally, I will be absolutely elated to see the back of Theresa May for she has proven to be one of the worst, but we still need to keep those politicians who are honest as a matter of principle. They shouldn’t have their reputations tarnished by a duplicitous rattle snake.

      The solution is staring us in the face. May has now shown her hand, and it is one of dishonesty. She must be replaced post haste with a true Brexiteer with plenty of history and pedigree, not a latter-day born again leaver. But with the exception of men like Andrew Bridgen who make no bones about their antithesis towards this most unsuitable Prime Minister, there seems to be a lack of willingness on the part of Brexiteers to rock the boat.

      Let us therefore send the reluctant ones a message – unless you all want to be wiped out at the next election by association, remove this useless individual from our midst and do it quickly. Bravery tends to get supporters falling in behind. Weaklings see their support fall away. May really DOES represent an existential threat to the Conservative Party.

      Tad Davison

      • Hope
        Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:32 am | Permalink

        May has become a threat to national security and our way of life. Giving away parts of our nation when millions died to preserve is beyond disgraceful, it is treason.

    • Clive Sinclair
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

      Seven reasons why not to back the deal ………..

      One. Withdrawal….. On the specifics of the implementation period, we cannot withdraw when we want to. To withdraw we must go through an arbitration process… “That this implementation period (can be extended) without going back to the UK for consent.” In effect (An implementation period with no way of getting out.) WOW!

      Two. On fisheries in the implementation, the EU retains the resources in the fishery act and the UK fleet will continue to bid for quotas to fish from there own territorial waters. EU sets and controls all fisheries management. Fishing rights in the deal would be discussed as part of a future trading arrangement. Once again. As an independent coastal island state, we must be in complete control of the resources and management of UK fisheries and territorial waters.

      Three. The biggest problem is the backstop. The backstop is supposed to be a fallback position. If no solution is agreed for the Northern Ireland border in the future, we would be locked into it not being able to end it without going to the arbitration panel, and this would be indefinite if no solution found. If we find ourselves in an indefinite backstop, the EU would set our customs tariffs and control our trading arrangements with no say from the government.

      Four. The UK would have its VAT levels set by the EU for up to four years after the 29th March.

      Five. The European Court of Justice would have a say in cases in the UK up to eight years after the 29th March.

      Six. The wording around future financial contributions to the EU are also unclear and left wide open to interpretation. Seven. Proposals for a “backstop” arrangement – effectively keeping Northern Ireland in the single market and customs union to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, really is that the best you could do?

      Seven. Nothing mentioned about the future EU army contribution or the recent statement from Merkle that she says all the 27 must give up sovereignty of their countries…..

    • Hope
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

      JR, so you agree May is a liar and therefore dishonest? What does this say of your cabinet leave colleagues!

      Unbelievable that 100 years ago brace souls gave their life for a traitor like May to stand by their memorials and give it all away for nothing in return! Utterly disgraceful. Mr Howe QC is spot on the money.

  2. Chris
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    I think much of Corbyn’s key criticism of the deal was spot on, plus these statements about the incompetence, ambiguity and appalling waste of time:

    “…this empty document could have been written two years ago. It is peppered with phrases such as ‘the parties will look at, the parties will explore’.
    “What on earth has the government been doing for the last two years? They’ve managed less than one page a month since the referendum.”

    • bigneil
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:36 am | Permalink

      ” What has the govt been doing “? Paying the EU £50+m a day to take control of this country.

    • Hope
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:47 am | Permalink

      The declaration is not worth reading it is empty words and unenforceable.

      Why are the cabinet ministers still in post if they criticise the withdrawal agreement in derogatory terms? It shows me they are cowards and not representing their constituents, party or nation, in fact betraying them. I hope voters in their respective areas take note and vote for anything but them and also pay them a visit to call them what they are.

    • rose
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

      His best contribution in the House that I can think of.

  3. Alan Jutson
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Had a quick speed read through it this afternoon Courtesy of Guido Fawkes site.

    Agree absolutely John, a complete and utter meaningless 25 pages of some nice words, some not so nice, but absolutely no promises on anything, although it does refer on many occasions to the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement, so a sting in the tail on almost every page.

    They even say we can have an input into our own fishing waters, as long as it is shared out fairly.

    Quite honestly how anyone can say this gives us any chance of anything, over yet an even more extended period of time, is quite beyond me.

    Surely now it is time for absolute rejection of these farcical negotiations, not that negotiation is the right word, total capitulation is rather more accurate.

    The important thing is what Politicians and Conservative Mp’s in particular are going to do about it !.

  4. piglet
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Yes, John. But who agreed it? – The leader of your party. So what are you going to do about it?

    • Ron Olden
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 2:53 am | Permalink

      No one has agreed it.

      It has to be agreed by Parliament. So the answer as to what Mr Redwood intends to do about it is simple. Vote against it in Parliament.

    • Bernard Davey
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 6:10 am | Permalink

      Agreed by Mrs May, supported by Mr Gove, Ms Mordaunt, Leadsom etc. The Brexiters have been comprehensively outsmarted. Mr Redwood, have you heard the saying “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”? Well, it is shame on you Mr Redwood – did you trust Mr Baker’s dodgy maths too much? Every step of the way you have told us we should just leave, every step of the way the likes of May and Gove have played you for a fool and wrapped up leaving in huge concessions

      • Hope
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

        Not outsmarted the leave ministers are an utter disgrace without conviction or principles. It is difficult to see how anyone would want to ever elect them who are traitors to their own principles.

    • Nigl
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 6:38 am | Permalink

      Agree totally. We continue to read beautifully crafted summaries explaining yet again that we are being sold out yet not one word about stopping/changing it.

      I sense you are being totally outplayed.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

      They are going to remove her as soon as they are sure they can do it. Probably just after she loses the vote for her appalling let’s pay to become permanent prisoners of the EU “deal”.

      Martin Howe QC in the Spectator.

      May’s Brexit deal: the legal verdict
      The PM’s plan isn’t bad – it’s atrocious

      https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/mays-brexit-deal-the-legal-verdict/

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:00 am | Permalink

        Lifelogic

        Mrs May will threaten her Party with an election if they do not vote to pass her deal.

        Mp’s need to out her before she has the chance to bury them.

        Simples.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:39 am | Permalink

        LL

        In my view thats a dangerous game . May is a bit of a maverick operator . She is likely to do something crazy like call a general election as soon as she loses the vote in parliament

        Never prevaricate , its a major failing of politicians. She should have been ousted, the spineless Tory party has once again made an almighty cock up.

  5. Peter
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    What May can do with this is of more practical concern now than what it actually says.

    There was talk that she is eliminating the WTO option, in cahoots with her new mouthpiece Amber Dudd. The only supposed alternative for Leavers is ‘Remain’. This will be used to try to get support from ‘soft’ Brexiteers – a couple of names were mentioned by a clown on the radio (who had not spoken the the individuals concerned).

    Simultaneously, she will tell Remainers that not passing the Withdrawal Agreement will result in WTO terms. It’s as if both sides will be ignorant of what she is telling the other.

    If the numbers are as expected and it fails there will either be :-

    A) an engineered run on sterling – a la George Soros – and stock market slump. This will put the frighteners on, before a second, successful attempt to get The Withdrawal Act agreed.

    B) Another referendum. Yes, she has said there will not be a further vote – but she can change her mind again.

    C) The threat of a general election to frighten nervous Tory bench warmers.

  6. Chris
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    I believe May/her draft should be subject to a legal challenge. As usual, the written document does not match her words. There is serious deception being effected here. Theresa May in my view is not worthy of the title Prime Minister. This is an almighty sell out and does not represent the true Brexit that was promised to the electorate. Are you going to be seen as complicit in this betrayal, Tory MPs? If you continue supporting May, you will be viewed as such..

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

      Mrs May is dual hatted. She is also the Governor of the EU provinces of EnScoWalNi.

  7. David Magauran
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    I cannot believe how naive Mrs May is. Of course the EU won’t negotiate in any honest way. Good by Brexit!

    • Paul H
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:25 am | Permalink

      She is not naïve. This is the plan …

  8. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    OMG, what a farce. Buff said.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 5:17 am | Permalink

      Should read Nuff said.

  9. Mark B
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Good evening.

    If this goes through the House, the Conservative Party is finished.

    That is all that needs to be said.

    • libertarian
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      Mark B

      The problem is , its not. The Tory party has been totally incompetent and useless for years. The problem is there is no alternative thats any better . We are stuck with this rabble until someone turns up and reinvents politics in this country

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

        Mark. But are we to understand that no future party will be able to get us out of the EU once this deal has been signed? If the EU becomes totally defunct it means we have to stay in with no choice. What the hell is going on when so many in parliament seem to love the deal?

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

      The Conservative Party is finished unless and until it replaces Mrs May. It’s only hope of existing as a serious political force is to ditch Mrs May. We all hope it will do so before Parliament has its meaningful vote. Parliament is very likely to accept Mrs May’s deal in order to avoid being blamed for any short term problems of No Deal, and they trust that the consequences of her deal will be sufficiently far into the future for them to avoid personal blame. It is as simple as that.

    • Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

      Unfortunately, Mark B, so is the UK as we know it. This is the way it ends, then.
      Not with a bang but a whimper.

  10. mancunius
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    And meanwhile, every day that May holds office is a day less spent preparing for our hoped-for clean brexit without a deal on 29 March 2019, preparing for WTO rules, trade deals (presumably Fox has now stopped actually working, as there will be none under the ghastly pseudo-deal May is pretending to have negotiated).

    It is rather as if Chamberlain had come home from Munich in 1938, and instead of agreeing to produce Hurricanes and Spitfires had pretended that the German government was in fact a peace-loving ally, and had made no preparations at all for the obviously approaching war.

    • Stred
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

      Yes, Chamberlain bought time to eventually win. May deliberately loses time to eventually lose our sovereignty.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:25 am | Permalink

      Oddly enough I posted here a YouTube link showing the event. Our kind host deleted it as I expected him to, but this time, I have no complaints. It doesn’t take away the hurt and sense of utter betrayal though. Not just to the people, however they voted, who took part in this sham of a referendum, but the poorer nations outside the EU that would benefit from it.

  11. javelin
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Plus it breaches our legally enforceable UN right to self determination that was entered by Winston Churchill after the war.

    • Peter D Gardner
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

      It was actually a right in the founding charter of the League of Nations in 1919 at US Pres Woodrow Wilson’s insistence and carried over into the UN. It is one of the oldest human right in international law and rather more abused than used in respect of the English.

  12. oldtimer
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    By the time I got to page

    22
    PART IV: INSTITUTIONAL AND OTHER HORIZONTAL ARRANGEMENTS

    it was more than clear who will on top. It is the EU. I noted on earlier pages plenty of references to the UK continuing to have to pay for the privilege of these “arrangements”.

    If this dog’s dinner of a so-called negotiation does not persuade Conservative MPs that they are being led astray by Mrs May, I do not know what will.

  13. Robert Cale
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Remoaner May illustrates her qualities as an intellectual lightweight by trying to knit together a fantasy deal of her own creation. This deal tries to be all things to all men and is naive in the extreme. Brexit means breaking ties, it means a massive realignment, with all the birth pangs that come with any socioeconomic volte face. Theresa May, who, let us not forget, blew away the majority on an egocentric whim, literally hasn’t a clue and is unfit for the office she holds. May must go, the ‘fake deal’ must go. No deal and WTO is the only viable, sensible option.

    • Andy
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

      Spoken like a pensioner with no job to lose.

    • rose
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

      The stupidest things she says are when she implies we have to negotiate our independence, negotiate our immigration policy, negotiate what happens to our fishing waters, negotiate to be allowed to trade with N Ireland. None of these things are negotiable. They are ours. But because she doesn’t understand what independence is, she wants to give them away, and is trying to. At the moment she seems to think because she has “negotiated” for us to be allowed to control our borders, we don’t need to be an independent country. Almost as if she thinks we are as stupid as she is.

      • Peter D Gardner
        Posted November 24, 2018 at 3:16 am | Permalink

        What she means is that the divorce is between the British and continental branches of the EU technocratic elite of supra-nationalists, and the joint assets which they are dividing up between them and arguing over are the UK and its assets.

  14. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    Mrs May keeps telling parliament that her deal does give us control of our laws, money and borders, never detailing when. If other things are insufficient, isn’t lying to the House of Commons worthy of dismissal from office?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:30 am | Permalink

      Indeed blatant lies, lies and more lies from T May, both in the house and in front of No. 10 directly to the people. She clearly thinks we are all complete idiots.

      • Martin
        Posted November 24, 2018 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

        It’s known as projection.

    • Al
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

      If her deal gives control of our laws, then she will have no trouble announcing today that the UK will not follow or enforce EU Article 11 or 13, or make strict and specific caveats to limit their use and enforcement and protect Creative Commons and Fair Dealing.

      Except, of course, that she will not, because she cannot. Her deal gives her no such control, no matter her claims.

    • rose
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

      Just keep asking her “When?”

  15. Freeborn John
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    So why are you propping May up by not writing a letter to Graham Brady?

  16. margaret howard
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    You wanted Brexit – what did you expect? People like you have ruined the future of our young people.

    • Martin
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:06 am | Permalink

      The country voted to leave the EU and the Tory government pledged to implement the decision immediately. That is what the people expected to happen. Not rank betrayal. Not the very opposite of what the people voted for.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:51 am | Permalink

        But what the people voted for was a fantasy of a riskless and painless Brexit which they were assured by Vote Leave was just round the corner.

    • Treacle
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 1:10 am | Permalink

      He expected Brexit, which will be good for all our people, not just the young. He did not expect the Prime Minister to say she would implement what the majority (but not you, evidently) voted for, and then do the opposite.

    • Ron Olden
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:08 am | Permalink

      It’s not John Redwood wanting Brexit that’s brought this about.

      It’s Parliament voting to call the Referendum, the majority of voters voting to Leave, a huge majority of MPs including all but one Tory MP and a majority of Labour MPs voting to invoke Article 50, then 85% of people voting for parties in 2017 who promised to Leave, who’ve brought about Brexit.

      Mr Redwood has always made it clear that he wanted to Leave without a Deal. It’s the self serving mugs who voted to hold the Referendum on the assumption that Remain would win it, then voted to invoke Article 50 on the assumption that they would get any deal of their choosing who are to blame.

      Parliament still has the choice. Remain, or Leave with No Deal. Which is exactly what the question on the Referendum ballot paper was. No Deal was ever specified on the ballot paper .

      • Andy
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

        When you have something to lose it concentrates minds. The Brexiteers feel they have nothing to lose. Let’s make sure they do.

        We should offer Mr Rees-Mogg, Mr Redwood and other a deal.

        They can have the hard WTO Brexit they desire. But only if they specify, in advance, precisely the economic gain which will come from it.

        We will make it a binding target. If they are right they have nothing to feat.

        If they are wrong we will seize their assets – all of them – and jail them for life. Let’s see how many of them are still so keen on WTO then.

        • Richard1
          Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

          What a silly post grow up.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 24, 2018 at 7:44 am | Permalink

          Presumably you are in favour of the same scenario applying to remainers like yourself if we were to remain in the EU.

      • Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

        No, they do not have the choice to remain. The country voted out. The choice is to leave without a deal with the EU or to devise another deal.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 5:20 am | Permalink

      Margaret, no, its people like you and those MP’s that are the problem.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:53 am | Permalink

        Not even the courage to face up the mess you created in the first place, Fedupsoutherner.

        You got exactly what you wanted: Brexit. It was never going to be any different.

        • fedupsoutherner
          Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

          TAB. WE DO NOT HAVE BREXIT IN ANY FORM. SURELY THAT MUCH IS OBVIOUS EVEN TO A REMAINER!

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 7:21 am | Permalink

      Margaret

      Blame the Remainers they negotiated it !

      It actually is worse than what we had !

      Crass incompetence.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:56 am | Permalink

        … cause all the Brexiters went for the exit and made sure to be far away from government when the inevitable consequences of their hare-brained scheme would become apparent to all. Rats leaving a sinking ship.

        Where are David Davis ? Boris Johnson ? or Dominic Raab who managed to hand over his resignation on a deal that he himself negotiated (priceless) ?

        • Alan Jutson
          Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

          Tabulazero

          Given Davis and Raab were deliberately conspired against by Mrs May with her alternative Robbins Capitulation plan, and all other Cabinet Ministers were kept in the dark on the way Mrs May was working, I am surprised they thought about it for a couple of days, and more did not have the backbone to resign.

          They did not jump ship as you put it, but were put in a position where they were made to look like fools, because they thought they could trust her !

          Raab did not negotiate the deal as you put it, because that task was taken away from him after less than a week, and then given openly to Robbins.
          Thus it was Robbins and May’s plan that he could not stomach.

      • Stred
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:28 am | Permalink

        It’s deliberate, like a Yes Minister plot.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:38 am | Permalink

      And Margaret, what did you vote for?

      EU expands to 34 countries, how many of those will be net contributors?
      Loss of Mrs Thatcher’s rebate.
      Further dilution of voting power through Qualified Majority Voting.
      Join the Euro.
      EU Army .
      Direct taxation by the EU.

    • libertarian
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

      MH

      What is wrong with you people? 17.4 million people voted to be free and to move forward to a better future . Our Remain politicians have done everything to stop us leaving. Its them and you that are ruining our future

  17. Chris
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Serious disquiet and anger over at Conservative Home (Comments section) about May’s draft and her deception. Worth remembering many of these are not true grassroots Conservatives but representative of the left liberal wing of the Party (the grassroots having been banned from commenting), so if they are in opposition to May, then her position is indeed shaky.

    • Stred
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      The poll by Lord Ashcroft in CH today is disappointing. It seems that only a minority of voters have understood what is happening. A majority of Conservative voters, probably women, still think May is the best leader. I know my wife, who hardly has time to read newspapers and never listens to non-biased tv news or radio, has no idea that May has deceived ministers, handed negotiations to Europhile civil servants and continues to say one thing and do another. When I try to explain, female Remainers just me to stop being a grump and take up something interesting like photography or model making. They prefer to use emotional intelligence rather than facts, which are considered to be verging on autistic spectrum.

      Perhaps, as most politicians and voters are thick or don’t care, the UK may as well hand over to unelected bureaucrats. They do seem to be smarter, even managing to insert a clause for non prosecution for crime and not paying tax on income paid for screwing us.

  18. LukeM
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    It’s a good deal..looking at the bones of it..but we didn’t vote for it..We the public can do nothing about it..and Mrs May and the EU are both determined to drive it on..so only parliament can call a halt to it now.. but am afraid members are all only looking after their own careers..the usual..two years of whinge has brought us to this

    • Know-Dice
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

      Don’t forget Luke, that the EU has track record when it comes to NOT implementing these types of agreements.

      Any MP with half a brain should understand that NONE of the items on this “Wish List” will ever see the light of day, and their vote in Parliament should be on that understanding.

    • Stred
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:55 am | Permalink

      Remainer LM angling for a second referendum as People’s Vote, rigged and remain.

  19. Lifelogic
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Yet Theresa May stands in front of No. 10 and tells us (with a straight face) that it honours the Brexit we voted for and takes back control of our money, our borders and our laws!

    Is she:-
    A. A blatant liar and a complete fraud,
    B. Deluded and totally round the twist?
    C. A traitor to the UK

    Any agreement that we would be locked into against our will is totally unacceptable. Leaving a club and going into a prison is not Brexit. This agreement ensures the ECJ continues to rule and even prevents the UK becoming competitive. Please get rid of this appalling PM.

    I had fortunately forgotten all about Margaret Becket (on Politics Live today). Just how very unpleasant she can be. Today she was attacking James Dyson for manufacturing some products overseas (doubtless a very sensible thing for him to do so that he can compete as businesses have to). A man who has done so very much for the UK (including his new Engineering university) attacked by someone who (together with her party) has done little but incubate envy and actively destroy jobs and the economy, every single time Labour gained power.

  20. Bryan Harris
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Then one has to ask why May is so convinced that this will give us Brexit.
    Her responses to MP’s questions were bland and evasive, with no real content – She never at any time explained how this agreement would give us what we want, even though she stated that it would.
    I’m afraid that too many people are going to be convinced by her performance.
    There were plenty of challenges today, all glibly responded to.
    What can be done – we all seem to be powerless to avoid a disaster. It’s no use us saying she will reap what she ploughes – it will be too late then.

  21. Bitterend
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    The vassal state delivered on the Tory watch😨

    • Bob
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:45 am | Permalink

      “The vassal state delivered on the Tory watch”

      I’ve been warning Tory voters for years that they are naïve to think the Tories would ever allow us to leave the EU. People can be so gullible.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      Given the level of competence they have exhibited since the referendum, it might not be a bad thing if Brussels takes over.

      I’ll trade Sabine Weyand for Olly Robbins any time of the day.

  22. DUNCAN
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    We must destroy this mendacious, seditious, anti-democratic government and send this grotesque PM packing into deserved obscurity. The UK is lost if May remains and British democracy will be crushed forever

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

      Where’s UKIP when we need them????

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

        Jools UKIP are around but the media are choosing to ignore them. It is through them that the referendum came about in the first place and let’s not forget that Cameron was a liar too.

    • Chris
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      See Robert Tombs article on Spiked:

      “If Brexit is finished, so is democracy”

      “Theresa May’s Brexit deal has angered Leavers and Remainers alike. Far from repatriating powers to Britain, it would hand even more power over to the EU. spiked caught up with Robert Tombs, professor of French history at St John’s College, Cambridge, and author of The English and their History, to discuss the implications of the deal for sovereignty, democracy and the future of British politics……”

  23. ian wragg
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    So now we know, section 23 says the final agreement will be based on the Backstop.
    CU and SM rules with the ECJ as final arbiter.
    I predict Labour will abstain or vote for the WA thus splintering the Tories and forcing an election. Your defeat will be much worse than in 1997 and similar to what happened in Canada.
    You will forever be branded the party that betrayed Britain.

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

      Labour will either abstain of give a free vote. Given that 250 Conserative MPs are Remainers the bill will pass, unless of course the Leaver MPs force a May no confidence vote then the CP will know whether they have stuffed the country as in 1995, when Major received a pat on the back for Maastricht.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      Too true Ian 🙁

  24. Butties
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Have you sent in your letter yet?

    • Treacle
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 1:12 am | Permalink

      I imagine he will have done. But he is under no obligation to say so. The process is secret, for good reasons.

  25. Butties
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    If not why not?

  26. Stred
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    The document seems to be reasonable, with agreement to join Euratom, cooperate with Interpol and contribute to their armed forces if we agree the action. We would do this anyway if we were not already members. They will allow us to discuss trade with other countries but it will not be worth their while doing so, ad EU tariffs and standards will apply.

    The legally binding WA contradicts the waffle. There is no mention of the enormous s we will be paying gor them to sell us far more than we sell them. Korea, Japan, and Canada pay nothing. It is the usual deceitful cover up.

  27. Bob
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    “This disappointing document confirms that this negotiation does not deliver Brexit, and does not give us control of our laws, money and borders, any time soon, with the risk that it might never properly do so.”

    Indeed a Brexit Fudge just as I warned you many many times since this woman became PM.

  28. Hope
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    JR, we were promised a comprehensive deal reading to sign in “nano second” after we leave the EU. This is pathetic, it is a road to be a member of the EU. May brazenly lied again and again. It is absolutely nothing of the sort. Once again, May is a liar.

    It does not end free movement as she said in parliament. It is not legally enforceable. It is an intention at best. When does she get impeached?

    • Helena
      Posted November 24, 2018 at 7:14 am | Permalink

      Hope, you are blaming the wrong person. Mrs May never said there would be a trade deal a nanosecond after we leave, Liam Fox said that. Mrs May never said we would have frictionless trade, David Davis said that. Mrs May never said we hold most of the cards, John Redwood said that. Mrs May never promised 350 million for the NHS, Boris and Gove promised that. Don’t blame Mrs May for failing to deliver the impossible , blame the reckless Brexiters for promising the British people the impossible

  29. Gary C
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    OK enough already . . . . . . .

    We have had our Government humiliate us, they have lied, they have been duplicitous, treacherous and abused our trust, remainers in all parties have destroyed democracy and are allowing our country to be subservient to a foreign power.

    JR, as your present leader is determined to bury the Conservatives maybe you should think about starting another party. Think about it there are several million voters out there with no home and no reason to vote.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:23 am | Permalink

      We do not need a new party (in the first past the post system it would never fly anyway). The sound wing of the Tories just need to take back the party from the traitors led by the appalling liar May. They need to listen to their members and make it a party of low taxes, a real Brexit, freedom and sound economic management.

      Basically a partly that is opposite of the appalling Theresa May/ Philip Hammond agenda.

      • Gary C
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:28 am | Permalink

        Sadly I think there are far too many traitors amongst them for a ‘sound wing’ to take over.

      • Bryan Harris
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

        Too late – The ‘UN-Sound’ make up the majority now…

        Best option would be for the sound MPs to break away, and merge with UKIP

    • Bob
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:57 am | Permalink

      You don’t need to start a new party, if you want UK independence there is already a party whose main policy is just that. Here are some examples of their policies:

      They would abolish:
      • Inheritance Tax
      • HS2
      • Stamp Duty
      • Foreign Aid
      • TV Licence
      • EU membership
      • Tuition Fees for STEM subjects

      It is everything the Tory Party should be.

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

        Bob. UKIP can’t be any worse than Labour.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 24, 2018 at 7:26 am | Permalink

        Indeed but it has no MPs and will never take off with first past the post.

  30. Everhopeful
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    Every MP had his/her say in June 2016. Those who voted Remain were on the losing side. Surely from that point on it was the duty of every MP to put aside personal preference and implement the democratic decision? Very simple I know, but obviously the last thing that is actually happening.

  31. formula57
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    It would be treason to enter these deals.

    Mrs. May’s innovative approach of neither following her party nor leading it has perhaps led her to suggest (stridently, alas) this ridiculous nonsense. Will she be introduced to what is proper soon do you think?

  32. Andy
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    On the contrary. This document is Brexit.

    It delivers you precisely the downgraded vassal state you voted for in June 2016.

    There is an irony in all this.

    During their epic 30 year anti-EU whinge the Eurosceptics never came up with a better plan.

    They criticised everything about the EU- but did not consider any alternatives.

    Now they have had more than 2 years to come up with them they have miserably failed.

    There is not one problem your Brexit poses where the solution is better than the status quo.

    There are now two options. Firstly we rely on the grown up politicians to stop this mess by cancelling Brexit.

    Second we plump for full on Oliver Cromwell style revolution. I increasingly lean toward the latter.

    • Ron Olden
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:13 am | Permalink

      We did not vote for a Vassal State in 2016. We voted to Leave the EU. Not a single voter specified that it had to be with this, or any ‘deal’ at all.

      • Andy
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:48 am | Permalink

        Yes – that’s what I’ve told you lot all along. But you have all insisted you knew what you were voting for.

        Now we know what Brexit actually is – rather than the undeliverable tosh you wet promised it would be – none of you like it.

        You are directing your anger at the wrong people. You need to look at the Vote Leave liars who sold you a dud.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

          But leaving has been hijacked by remainers with views like you.

    • Richard1
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 5:49 am | Permalink

      It is debatable whether this Brino is better or worse than remain, especially given the clear federalist direction of the EU. But you are quite wrong that there are no advantages. We will be out of the CAP and CGP, neither of which anyone from remain has ever made the slightest attempt to defend, we will no longer be subject to mandatory uncontrolled immigration from the EU, and our payments excluding the leaving present reportedly fall from £10bn pa to £1bn pa. Do Try to be balanced.

      • Richard1
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 5:50 am | Permalink

        CFP I meant – though that one does seem to be up in the air I agree.

        • Stred
          Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:33 am | Permalink

          The fishermen writing on facts4eu.org today seem to think that the agreement sells them out in return for access to the market. Presumably, not the fish market, as the EU buys from Iceland land, Norway, Turkey, Vietnam and Thailand and does nkt require them to sell out their waters and fleet.

      • JoolsB
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:28 am | Permalink

        But it is not Brexit and not what 17.4 million people voted for. We have been betrayed – no ifs, no buts.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 6:55 am | Permalink

      If you cancel Brexit then you’ll get your peasant’s revolt but I doubt it will be to your taste – lucky you voted to have a European conscript Army to put it down.

      • Anonymous
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:53 am | Permalink

        Peasant’s revolt. That’s tin hat territory.

        What will happen is that swathes of conservative (small c) people will stop voting and will stop paying voluntarily for things such as the BBC. The Marxists will get their way for a while then it will be *they* who revolt.

        There needs to be real poverty for a revolution. With Britain in the grip of a clearly visible obesity epidemic (especially in so called poor areas) it is clear that we haven’t experienced real poverty yet.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      Andy – There are several choices.

      One of them is to just Leave as we voted to do in 2016.

      This option is better than what Mrs May has negotiated.

      David Cameron made it very clear what he thought the choices were in 2016. He told us then that to vote Leave was the cliff edge option. Leave first, deal later. Your side have muddied the waters ever since you lost the vote.

    • libertarian
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      Andy

      Give over with your nonsense

      We have a plan , we’ve always had a plan . Its just been stopped by the Continuity Remainers . You know that too

    • Al
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:45 am | Permalink

      This isn’t Brexit since under it Britain isn’t exiting.

      We voted for exit, not downgraded vassal state. We voted for WTO trade, which this does not deliver.

      We still have to deal with the problems of VATMOSS, companies not trading with the EU having to follow EU trade regs, GDPR, the increasing restrictions on the digital economy, a young and growing sector, and laws that, like VATMOSS, can be shown to specifically harm groups that are predominantly lower income.

      Leaving the EU would give the government the option to resolve these issues.

  33. A.Sedgwick
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    This confirms my view it is a monumental tactical error for the genuine Leavers not to attempt ousting May and publicly. JRM seems undermined when he should be applauded. Had 48 letters been sent and advertised this mutual back slapping with Juncker probably would not have occurred. Now the disgraceful deceit and deception will progress to a vote.

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:31 am | Permalink

      But as far as we know John didn’t send in a letter to Graham Brady. Nor did apparently many other Brexit MPs, many of whom had said they would. So they only have themselves to blame that this appalling woman is still in place.

  34. Caterpillar
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    And so, will sufficient numbers of MPs vote consistently with the democratic referendum?

  35. Steve
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    My sentiments exactly Mr Redwood.

    For me the acid test was fisheries. The scots are furious about it, and rightly so. Any fool can see our territorial waters will be traded off.

    If may was serious about our sovereignty she would have had all EU fishing vessels ordered out of our waters immediately.

    Then there’s the £39bn which we were not legally obliged to pay, been handed on a plate, and so it goes. Any resource this country needs she has given away.

    I’m of the view this whole farce was choreographed from the moment the referendum was announced.

    You say the disappointing document does not deliver Brexit, well perhaps the conservatives should have got rid of her before she could do any damage, like we’ve been telling them. Now they say they will vote down the agreement. Do the conservatives not know the horse is supposed to go before the cart ?

    The conservatives are going to pay the ultimate price at the next election. Well done, you’ve all just endorsed your own party’s death warrant. I would say RIP conservatives, but frankly you should all burn in the hot place for what you’ve done to this country.

    Bring on Corbyn, at least he’s a confessed eurosceptic so making him Prime Minister as well can only be an improvement on the lilly-arsed liberal appeaser currently in number ten.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

      Steve. Do you trust them to vote down the agreement? I don’t.

      • a-tracy
        Posted November 26, 2018 at 8:39 am | Permalink

        They’ll just abstain and leave the Tories to their own mess.

  36. Simon
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    How is your quick easy “deal” lol going now Mr Redwood ?

    • Ron Olden
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:15 am | Permalink

      When did Mr Redwood say he wanted a ‘deal’ , as condition of Leaving? Quick, easy or otherwise.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:00 am | Permalink

      It is looking like the total capitulation from the UK’s part that it was always going to be.

    • Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

      Anyone who has to pad out a comment with an inane ”lol” is most definitely more at home on Facebook. Perhaps it’d be best for you to go back to reading that.

  37. John Hatfield
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    “and does not give us control of our laws, money and borders, any time soon, with the risk that it might never properly do so.”
    I think we can be certain. John that in two years’ time today’s maybes will become definitely nots.
    Our last hope of a proper Brexit is a wish-washy parliament which gives the impression of being ideological global in nature or simply having been threatened or bribed to oppose Brexit. How can these people pretend they are honouring the referendum result, even after being elected on a manifesto backing the leave vote. So much for our democratic political system.

  38. Norman
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Well, then John, in that case, I would hope that Parliament will vote it down! This risks a melt-down of the government, and a possible election in the Opposition’s favour.
    No doubt that explains the reticence to send in letters to the 1922 C’tte, which I fully understand. Some probably also feel they want to stand by the PM for her tremendous efforts to deliver a mutually workable Brexit, even though they can see its a virtual impossibility, and disagree with her in principle. I suspect that would be Mrs Leadsom’s position. But sadly, one can see the writing is on the wall. The moment of truth is coming.
    It remains to be seen if the government can pull off a relatively soft landing for a ‘No Deal’. If so, I suspect there’d be a lot of good will in the country at large, despite a hew and cry from many others – not unlike the current ideological division in America. With so many other problems in the country, and indeed the world, whoever wins will have a huge challenge before them. Interesting times!

  39. a-tracy
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    No, sorry can’t resist.
    What the hell are you and the other Leave spokespeople going to do about it! No point carping from the sides like you were resigned to doing when the ERM got through thanks to Major and nearly sunk us. The whole Conservative team was blamed and you were out of action for a decade of Labour created debt slavery for our kids. It’s our kids paying an effective 41% tax from £17,000pa, and 51% if they work hard enough to get over the UEL; being told they’ll never get a State Pension even though they’re having the NI taken, the NEST scheme just another con trick. You all chose TM you might as well as put Ken Clarke in charge.

  40. Oliver
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    For a 7 page document to grow to 26 in just 7 days seems to be a CAGR of 20.6% per day… so the 585 Withdrawal agreement, over what seems to be about 510 days since A50, would have started at under a page…

    Sounds about right…. as much co-operation on everything as possible, mutual recognition of citizens rights etc, no travel aggro, no ECJ, and no money without a sensible trade deal that’s in everyones interests, or we’ll go to WTO and sort it out when you realise how much its harming your exports to us of unnecessarily expensive cars and food.

    Come to think of it, it doesn’t take anywhere near a page.

  41. eeyore
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    The Parliamentary party cannot be relied on. They are donkeys led by donkeys and we should not assume these horrific documents will be rejected. Over on ConHome Paul Goodman has crunched the numbers and the result is not comforting.

    So let’s try a thought experiment: those Conservative members who still respect the referendum resign the whip and their seats. They stand in the resulting by-elections as Brexit Conservatives – using the 2017 Conservative manifesto word for word.

    I know it won’t happen. But if it did …

    • Chris
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:57 am | Permalink

      It would create the upheaval that is needed to wake up the Conservatives to revamp their Party. MPs would actually have to fight for their principles and survival and would have to actually connect to the electorate. Nigel Farage did this and won a huge following thanks to his plain speaking and his courage. The establishment, by both fair means and foul, ensured that he did not get the representation in Parliament that he deserved.

    • David L
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:59 am | Permalink

      Hmm, Eeyore, that course of action might put our host’s own seat at risk!

  42. M Davis
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    For a while, everyone was giving Mrs May the benefit of the doubt, in thinking that she must be playing her hand close to her chest and that she would deliver the goods in good time.

    Now, we know differently and that she is proving to be a full blown Remainer after all.

    Where is the backbone of the rest of the Conservatives? I expect they are cosying up in order to keep their positions. The problem for them is that there will not be a Conservatve Party to speak of when the next General Election comes around.

    Many thanks to you, Dr Redwood and your Brexit colleagues (Labour MP’s included) who are doing your best for us!

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      Everyone ?

      I said from the day she was inaugurated …

    • Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:53 am | Permalink

      M Davis – yes, at least there are a few left with honour. Having always voted Conservative, unless something unexpectedly miraculous happens soon, I shall start looking seriously at what any other party has to offer, to deserve my vote. There don’t seem to be any at the moment. I may not vote at all, and I never thought I’d say that.

      I speak to many about this, some erstwhile staunch Conservative supporters. They’re all saying the same – the Cons seem to have lost them, probably for ever.
      And Mrs May has achieved this single-handedly (albeit with the support of Oily and his mates, and, of course, her EU masters).

  43. Turboterrier.
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    What did anyone expect?

    Classic case of over promise and under deliver.

    The time has come for inmates of Westminster to put country and sovereignty before any personal ambitions and just vote this out of the house and be deposited where it belongs.
    The country has waited two years for this? Where and when are we going to get real ministers and members who can actually see this for what it really is. A load of crap belittling the intelligence and commitment of the people. Why we put up with this especially in the light of what is being planned by the EU for the future god only knows.
    This will destroy democracy as we think we know it. We had some weak leaders over the years but this has got to take the biscuit. Totally out of step with everything.

  44. Mark
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Why is May seeking agreement from the EU Council for her so called withdrawal agreement? Surely she should be scraping on bended knee to Verhofstadt, begging him to pass it before it goes to the EU Council, as specified by Article 50 (2).

    The answer appears to be because this is NOT a withdrawal agreement, but an agreement to extend our membership of the EU on disadvantageous terms under Article 50 (3), which requires no say-so from Europarl, but does need an unanimous decision in Council..

  45. Steve P
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. May should be careful with ambiguous and wooly treaties, she may not get what she thought:

    The village blacksmith finally found an apprentice willing to work hard for long hours. The blacksmith immediately began his instructions to the lad, “When I take the shoe out of the fire, I’ll lay it on the anvil; and when I nod my head, you hit it with this hammer.”

    The apprentice did just as he told. Now he’s the village blacksmith.

  46. mickc
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    Then get rid of her!

  47. Richard1
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    Remain would be better than this it seems clear, as Boris Johnson says.

    It is a pity the Brexit side, Inc ministers, have not been better coordinated. Some want the deal rejected and say there is no cliff edge, others say the deal is OK, and some say there is a cliff but we need some tweaks to the deal. It’s clear Mrs May isn’t prepared to request the slightest alteration and will probably concede whatever she needs to to get a ‘deal’.

    It feels like it’s going to go through on the back of Labour / SNP votes and tactical abstentions.

    • acorn
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      “Remain would be better than this it seems clear…”

      That penny is about to drop with the rest of the voters. Mrs May likely can pull off the best Sting operation ever.

      How would you like to remain in the EU? Another referendum or a ageneral election based on remain, Mrs May or ERG candidates?

  48. Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    So who has the answer, Dr Redwood? If we are being betrayed, what are we to do? We are being taken for fools, as most of us have read what is in store for our country if T May has her wicked way. Did she think we wouldn’t notice, or has she got us so stitched up, she knows we can’t do a thing about it? What does that make her?
    And what does that make YOU, her colleagues, if you still tell us you think and behave as if she’s honourable?
    This just beyond … is there a word?

    • Chris
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      At the moment, they are all perceived as complicit in the treachery, L Jones. Mr Redwood is not likely to lose his seat, but there will be fierce battles in other, and the Cons will be consigned to the opposition. Considering that is what they are supposed to fear most, why on earth are the pursuing a policy (supporting May, not willing to challenge, nor resign the whip) that will guarantee their destruction? No ifs or buts. They will hit the dust.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

      L Jones. Basically, what is the point in voting at all?

  49. Edwardm
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    This declaration is another negative step.
    It goes to confirm that Mrs May is an insurgent striving to benefit the EU and against the UK and against the democratic decision of June 2016 – as evidenced by her deliberate moves over the last year or so. By not removing her, the Conservative Party has so far been complicit.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      Spot on.

  50. Tabulazero
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    With 2/3rd of the UK catch exported to the Single- Market, the UK’s fish stock was always in play since the first day.

    Mr a Redwood and his ERG friends just never bothered to tell it to the voters.

    • Ron Olden
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:17 am | Permalink

      Why is the fact that 2/3 of fish are exported to the Single Market mean that fishing rights were always in play?

      The same applies to Iceland but theirs aren’t.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:03 am | Permalink

        …cause fish have a very limited shelf life and if you cannot export them easily to your biggest market then they are unlikely to be worth a lot.

        Yes the UK has plenty of fish (for now) but its biggest customers are inside the European Union so some form of agreement is inevitable.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      It’s not the UK catch though is it – it’s the EU catch.

    • David Price
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:14 am | Permalink

      So there is a large established market for a UK fishing fleet to be re-established for. And if the EU refuses the catch then there are non-EU countries that will buy it.

  51. cosmic
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    I have that spooky feeling of deja vu, that I’ve been here before.

    British PM goes to Europe with a bad arrangement on hand and has tough discussions with the powers that be over there. Then comes back triumphantly with what they hope to sell us as a much better deal, which we should be both grateful for and eagerly supportive of. When you look at it, nothing of substance has changed and they are attempting to sell nothing as something.

    The names Cameron, Wilson and Chamberlain come to mind.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      Chamberlain was negotiating peace, not a surrender. Be fair to the man.

    • Chris
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:04 am | Permalink

      aka the globalist/deep state script, that May is apparently following, cosmic.

      • Chris
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

        Regarding above comment of mine starting “aka the globalist…” please ignore cosmic. No idea where that came from.

  52. Timaction
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Remind me who’s Government and party have negotiated this? No more trust left in any of the legacies. We need radical change in our voting system to reflect the peoples wishes, not the politicos! May is a proven liar yet she still hangs on.
    Madness, total madness!

  53. Mike Wilson
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    Your party will never be forgiven, by many millions of people, for this farce. The Remainer Tory MPs – determined, as they are, to ignore the votes of 17.4 million people – are in the process of killing the Conservative Party.

    They should have supported our Leaving – wholeheartedly – and supported getting the best FUTURE deal – in the FUTURE. As it is, we’re not leaving.

    17.4 million people ignored.
    Half of them Tory voters – 8.7 million Tory voters ignored.
    Half of them will never vote Tory again. 4.35 million votes lost forever.

    You need about 12 million votes to win a general election. You’ll be lucky to get 8 million votes next time. Bye.

    • Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:56 am | Permalink

      Eight million? As many as that?

  54. Jack Falstaff
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    This is all we shall get until you politicians pull a finger out and rid of this political harpie Mrs May.

    We cannot do anything more, the ball is in your collective court now, so there is very little point in braying to the masses, although we all know what you say is perfectly true.

    Please get on with it, before the press and the Remoaner masses persuade the political class to shy out with a second referendum.

  55. Monza 71
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    An unprecedented and humiliating self-inflicted defeat which will have profound consequences for the future of the Country.

    Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher must be turning in there graves.

    • Ron Olden
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:22 am | Permalink

      Would the be the same Margaret Thatcher who led the Remain campaign in 1975, forced the Single European Act through Parliament at the dead of night, pushed for the EU to be expanded to the East, and joined the ERM?

  56. am
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    Glad to hear IDS – and he’ll give courage to others – cannot support this withdrawal agreement.

  57. Nicholas Wilson
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    1) The EU that the remainers voted to stay in no longer exists. Federalisation continues, an EU Army is being formed, there is a schism between East and West European Members over migration and Italy is at odds with the EU over its budget, and consequent financial risks to EU Members have increased. There needs to be a much more open discussion of the magnitude and and direction of the EU’s evolution subsequent to the referendum.

    2) An abject surrender to a Federal Europe would be an insult to every member of the Armed Services who gave their lives to defend our Sovereignty in two World Wars. Abject surrender accurately describes the PM’s Brexit intentions.

    3) We are accustomed by means of General Elections to put Government Policies up for approval, and so far, we have accepted the outcomes of those elections. What those opposed to Brexit are doing is mounting a coup to overturn our Parliamentary Democracy.

  58. Peter Miller
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Theresa May ignored two important points in her negotiations with the EU:

    1. If you offer Danegeld, the Dane keeps coming back for more gold, and

    2. Waving a white flag throughout a negotiation seldom gives you a good deal.

    So now, her ego and pitiful negotiating skills have resulted in abject surrender, not quite the unconditional surrender demanded of the Nazis and Imperial Japanese, but pretty close.

    • Treacle
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 1:17 am | Permalink

      In any negotiation, you have to be prepared to walk away, but Mrs May always made it clear by her actions, if not always by her words, that she would not consider No Deal under any circumstances. So of course the EU conceded nothing. It was a mistake as bad as Gordon Brown’s announcing that he was going to sell all the gold reserves before he sold them.

      • JoolsB
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

        Exactly she talked tough but did the exact opposite. She spouted over and over again no deal is better than a bad deal but it now it seems any rotten deal is better than no deal. Her lies fooled us all.

  59. Peter Wood
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Good evening,

    This comes as no surprise, surely? We know the EU wants a Europe-wide super-state, with control of and common laws for all members, with, as recently stated, the effective elimination of nation states within. Mrs May doesn’t want to leave. BRINO as noted before.
    The question for Parliament is how will we stop this nonsense ‘deal’ from passing. I do hope you and your fellow Brexiteers have a game-plan?

  60. John Francis
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Here is the link to the document (Obtained from Reuters News site.)
    https://www.consilium.europa.eu//media/37059/20181121-cover-political-declaration.pdf
    I’ve read it and as I did so, I could see the tentacles of the EU octopus wrapping themselves around every aspect of the affairs of the UK and N. Ireland. The EU will even tell us what “fair and reasonable payments” we will have to make in order to continue to receive their cooperation in key areas.
    Two years negotiation to arrive at a total surrender of our sovereignty.

    • Chris
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:12 am | Permalink

      Merkel made that clear, JF, that surrender of sovereignty was what was expected. This was in a speech yesterday in Berlin at Conference on ‘Parliamentarianism Between Globalisation and National Sovereignty’. (Report in D Express yesterday).

      She stated that surrendering sovereignty to the EU was a better form of patriotism than nationalism. She also said: “In this day nation states must today – should today, I say – be ready to give up sovereignty…”

      This is what Tory MPs supporting the PM are voting for – there is no hiding from it now.

  61. rick hamilton
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Make Britain Great Again are words that would never pass Theresa May’s lips, nor I suspect those of any of the wets in the Cabinet, because they know they haven’t a clue how to do it.

    They appear to be scared to death of letting go of nanny EU’s apron strings, even if it leads to the destruction of their party at the next GE. These people have shown they have no confidence in the inherent character of the British people and they are literally incompetent to run an advanced country in the 21st century.

    It’s time we got some professionals into government who have actually run big businesses and are practical fact-based engineers and technologists instead of these opinion-based wafflers.

  62. Steven Dowds
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    So will you send a letter to the 1922 committee?

    • Steve
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 1:01 am | Permalink

      Doubtful.

  63. Martin
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    Hitler couldn’t take Britain down. In the end Blair, Cameron and May got the job done without breaking sweat, and signed the death warrant for the Tory Party in the process. The latter however would be a mere trifle compared with the enormity of the of the treachery that in a few decades reduced the once great power to a mere chattel wholly owned by the rotten to the core Continental empire. To be wholly owned in perpetuity. All that without a single shot even being fired. Why did we ever bother to spend billions on defence when a handful of traitors could so easily hollow out the country from within?

    • Martin
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

      Just like to say thanks for all the work you do in producing this excellent blog. A beacon of light in very dark times. And I know I rant on a bit. Just wish my editing was better.

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

        Martin. I thought your post was brilliant.

  64. miami.mode
    Posted November 22, 2018 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    It may have changed by now, but Jeremy Corbyn pointed out that in the Withdrawal Agreement a particular item had to be agreed by the year 20XX. This sums up the whole process which is obviously designed to allow the EU to keep control for many years to come.

  65. Andrew S
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    If May’s plan is passed by the commons, no matter who voted for what, rebel or not, I guarantee to switch and vote strategically to punish the conservative party locally and nationally thereafter, until remainer middle England tory values are in ruins at the hands of socialist attack dogs Corbyn and McDonnell.
    We voted leave, not surrender. Remainers Brexit betrayal will not go unpunished. Eventually, we will get our true Brexit. Meanwhile it will be amusing if we have to force the destruction from within of the Tory traitors party.
    Dump May, install a proper Brexit leader, and all is forgiven.

    • Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

      Andrew S – Yes, it’s that simple. Yet we’re constantly being told about all the mystical machinations of Parliament that have to be observed before this can happen.

      For goodness’ sake! Set a precedent!

    • Original Richard
      Posted November 24, 2018 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

      I would say to not vote for any elitist pro-remain candidate, whether they be Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem or Green.

      Search out and vote for alternatives.

      Also use your purchasing power to avoid EU made items wherever possible to reduce our £95bn/year trade deficit with the EU.

  66. Ron Olden
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 2:49 am | Permalink

    I’m mystified as to how Mrs May can think this document is remotely acceptable.

    Throughout this process I’ve always assumed that she knew something the rest of didn’t and that by the end something just about acceptable might emerge to convince us that however bad the deal looked, it was still better than no deal.

    This deal is terrible and is worse than Remaining.

    At least when you Remain there’s always the possibility of invoking Article 50. With this it’s pay £39 Billion to be a second rate member and be trapped there forever and a day.

    This is hopeless. We must either Leave with no deal or Remain.

  67. Renton
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    Classic Redwood! Carping from the sidelines about what we should NOT do, with not even a hint of any constructive ideas on what we should do. You have no solution to the Irish border, no solution to the need for frictionless just in time trade, no solution to the need for Border Inspection Posts the day we leave the EU, no solution to the loss of hundreds of trade deals with third countries the day we leave the EU. You have no solutions to anything!

    Reply We leave without signing the surrender document, and run the Irish border as we do today

    • Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:02 am | Permalink

      Classic Remainer! Never make a comment without throwing in a few insults!
      Tiresome.

    • sm
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      Renton, you should try reading Mr Redwood’s posts on this blog over the last two years, which you clearly haven’t done, before hurling insults.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

      Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has finally admitted in the Irish Parliament that although trapping the UK under the rules of the EU Customs Union and the EU Single Market in perpetuity would be his preferred route to keep the land border completely open there could be other ways, which would have to put into effect in a hurry in the event of the UK leaving the EU without a withdrawal agreement.

      He made several such references during exchanges here:

      https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2018-11-21/18/

      including this:

      “I think that in a no-deal scenario we would find ourselves having to come up with a deal. We would have to come to some kind of agreement on regulations and customs to avoid a hard border in order that the UK would honour its obligations as a member of the WTO and that we would continue to honour our obligations as an EU member. The point I was making is that if we had no deal, we would find ourselves having to find a deal very quickly.”

      So much for Theresa May’s claim that there could be no alternative.

  68. Mick
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1048913/brexit-news-angela-merkel-germany-eu-sovereignty-uk
    The final chapter in the Eu’s total full domination of Europe without a bullet being fired , the remoaners in the referendum slogg said that it was complete fantasy that the Eu wanted a forces or our sovereignty, the writing is on the wall people do you want to be British or German, so up yours eu dictators you can only prod the sleeping lion so many times before it awakens and bites back, be warned

    • Stred
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 11:09 am | Permalink

      The fishermen writing on facts4eu.org today seem to think that the agreement sells them out in return for access to the market. Presumably, not the fish market, as the EU buys from Iceland land, Norway, Turkey, Vietnam and Thailand and does not require them to sell out their waters and fleet.

    • Stred
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 11:14 am | Permalink

      The report about the Germans and French agreeing to buy each others arms is interesting. The French will be making the new eurofighter and the Germans will be making the eurotank. They have always been good at tanks.

  69. DUNCAN
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    With a Eurosceptic leader and campaigning on a pro-UK, Leave-EU platform at the next GE the Tories would crush Labour in the North of England

  70. Caterpillar
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    If the back stop is in perpetuity this sets the benchmark for any future negotiations. The EU can hold the UK to the backstop and the UK cannot independently leave. If there is no independent route out of the backstop then any future agreement will be bad for n the UK or the UK will be held forever under EU control. When there is no political route for a suppressed people it is inevitable that other routes will be sort. This is a very dangerous step that the PM is recommending. The UK must have the freedom unilaterally step away from the backstop.

  71. BOF
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    We hand over huge chunks of control to the EU and pay vast sums of money to them for them to spend on the rest of the EU.

    Will there be any point in our Parliament when we are relegated to a region?

  72. Walt
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    I cannot understand how Mrs May and her supporters can square their 11th November respect of those who fell defending Britain against Germany in war, whilst scheming to give control of Britain to the German-dominated EU in peace.

    • Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:05 am | Permalink

      ”There is a name for appealing over the head of the Crown to an authority outside the realm, and that name is treason. ”

    • Chris
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:17 am | Permalink

      It is not that they are scared, rh, but simply that they are signed up to the globalists’ goal of an EU superstate. They are almost fanatical about it, and the end certainly seems to justify the means to them: just look at the unprecedented lying by the PM that has taken place, let alone all the propaganda and funding for anti EU groups. There really is no other word for it: lying.

      • Chris
        Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:34 am | Permalink

        My comment above, beginning “It is not that they are scared …..” was supposed to be a reply to rick Hamilton. Apologies, Walt.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 11:38 am | Permalink

      Those who fell in the two wars died because of “ The old lie”. And now we all know ..beyond a single shadow of a doubt that it was and is just that…a huge,hypocritical,disgusting,self-serving LIE.

    • Kevin
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

      What a short-sighted view. England also went to war with USA and lost. Most of narrow minded Brexiters I know of are quite happy to bend over and let Americans rule us.

      Reply Another Remain lie

  73. George Brooks
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Anna Soubry is not one of my favourite MPs but one could not fail but to agree with her summing up of the deal on the World at One programme yesterday (Thur’):-

    ”If you are a Leaver this deal does not deliver Brexit and if you are a Remainer it put us in a worse position than we have at present”.

    One has to ask how can anybody, in their right mind, vote for this deal?

  74. Turboterrier.
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    The forthcoming vote will be one of the biggest landmarks in this country’s history.

    If may wins it will start the exodus of normal people away from voting and will open up the way for all the little lunatic parties to start getting a foothold in Westminster.

    All those May supporters will regret what they wished for. Farage on LBC stated too many have their eyes on a possible future position in the other house

  75. Adam
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Dump the declaration document & the PM with it.

  76. oldwulf
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    If Mr Corbyn commits to getting us out of the EU then he has my vote. At lease we can get rid of him in 5 years time. Hopefully, in those 5 years, he and Mr McDonnell will cause less damage than staying in the EU.

  77. Franz
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    You voted to leave and the withdrawal agreement is in place- so then just leave

    No need to go with a future deal until you decide what you want- take ten years out-

    it would be a good chance to let tempers cool down

  78. DUNCAN
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    As a nation and as a democracy we are now entering very dangerous territory. If May and the EU succeeds in their plan to undermine British democracy then we will become a mere region of the German economic empire

    It is incumbent on all Tory MPs to bring down May to save British democracy

  79. hans christian ivers
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    JR,

    I am afraid I read it differently. Yes it is very aspirational and high level and lots of things can turn out differently during the final negotiations.

    It actually opens up for the fishing to come under our control from the end of 2010, it also gives us say over our immigration policies and it opens up for trade deals for services, which is our most important export and it also gives us control of our money.

    But it is vague and not enforceable but that also works for both sides and saying it will lock us in for ever is not what I read out of the text.

  80. MPC
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Mr Juncker gave the game away in the referendum campaign when he said David Cameron was confident of winning the referendum and would then ensure the UK would be ‘docked into the EU’. The biggest irony for me in this fiasco is Mrs May is on the verge of achieving this aim even though Leave won.

    If this Agreement is approved by MPs then all of us, both Leavers and Remainers, need to be very worried indeed. Those of us who have worked with the EC know how uncompromising they are. When they have unlimited power over us they will be ruthless in introducing new laws and regulations to our specific detriment from March 2019.

  81. Iain Gill
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    I see in the papers that HS2 is likely to have its speed significantly reduced to save costs.

    You really could not make this stuff up.

    This country is being run by idiots.

  82. Tabulazero
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    Raab: “staying in EU is better than May’s Brexit deal”

    …. there…. we have it… it is starting after a rare outbreak of common sense… Finally

  83. Shieldsman
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Pie in the sky.
    Who will vote for the withdrawal agreement? Will you Mr Redwood?
    Corbyn will not. There is just the possibility he would have to implement it.

    No deal and it will all be sorted out before the end of the proposed transition period.
    Continental Businesses are making their own agreements to carry on trading after the 1st April 2019. The Continental supplier has to supply the goods (fresh food on time) or he does not get paid.
    The 29 March 2019 Brexit deadline falls right in the middle of the tulip season in the Netherlands, when farmers send truckloads of this country’s signature flower all over the world. Britain is the second largest market for Dutch flowers and plants, worth some 825 million euros ($1 billion) a year.

  84. Alan Joyce
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    Dear Mr. Redwood,

    I think Priti Patel summed up the Prime Minister’s pathetic efforts up perfectly.

    ‘Everything the EU wanted from the negotiations has ended up in the Withdrawal Agreement – which is a legally enforceable international treaty’.

    ‘That’s why we’re going to stay in the EU customs union, remain subject to judgments of the European Court, imperil our Union and allow the EU to have a veto over when we can leave the backstop’.

    ‘Everything the UK wanted has been put in an unenforceable, meaningless declaration’.

    ‘And it’s cost us 39 billion pounds’.

  85. Anonymous
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    In 2016 David Cameron and the whole of the Remain campaign made it very clear that voting Leave was to walk away with No Deal.

    We were told in no uncertain terms that Leave was a cliff edge.

    The word ‘deal’ was not even mentioned. In fact Mr Cameron had tried to do a deal with the EU and failed.

    I would not have taken part in the referendum had I known that the Leave choice would be denied leaving us stuck in the cat flap.

    The biggest lie told in the referendum was that Leave was a real option when it wasn’t.

    I can no longer come back to this blog – least of all to have Andy and Newmania tell me “told you so” and call me an idiot, which I now know I am.

    Like many I no longer trust myself to vote nor do I trust my own judgment on anything.

    I was not wrong to vote Leave but I was entirely stupid to think it would be done and I have helped to put my country in this terrible bind. We were FAR better off as we were with the right of veto in an albeit imperfect and slowly failing EU. Now we have the worst of all worlds.

    What a bloody mess.

  86. Captain Peacock
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    The British Brexit voters will never forgive the Tory party for this betrayal. In fact under this unconditional surrender we are more in the EU than now but with no rights.
    Seeing that Rudd person lording over us just makes my blood boil.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

      Captain Peacock. What makes me think that Rudd would be the chosen candidate to replace May? Another remainer and another PM made of the same ilk as May. It doesn’t bear thinking about.

  87. Chris
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood, are you and all your Tory MP colleagues listening? This letter (yet another in this vein) form D Tel today from John Booth should move you all:
    ” I despair at the Government’s total disregard of the referendum. The losers look like winning, due to a betrayal by the political elite.
    There is, I’m afraid, only one thing left for me and countless members of the electorate to do: vote for Jeremy Corbyn and get rid of this disgraceful self-interested bunch of metropolitan liberals who treat me with disdain because they think they know best.
    The only alternative is for a new party to be created for the disfranchised”.

  88. John Hatfield
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    John, I hope that every member of parliament gets a copy of what you have written here today.

  89. Jacey
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Michael Portillo made an interesting comment yesterday. In comparing the Withdrawal Agreement with a Corbyn administration he suggested that the Corbyn administration would be such a disaster that it would be ejected at the end of its first term whereas the Withdrawal Agreement would keep this country in thrall in perpetuity.

  90. Peter D Gardner
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Surely Dr Redwood it is now as clear as daylight that Mrs May’s intention is to position UK to accede to the new EU treaties that complete economic and monetary union and are intended to be in effect by 2025, as either a full or associate member. I have been saying this for some months and only in the last few days has there been any recognition that this could be a possibility. in general commentators don’t look beyond March 2019.

    Mrs May must be challenged on her intentions. She cannot credibly claim her deal delivers Brexit. She’s ‘av’n a larff.

  91. Excalibur
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Only marginally off topic, JR. I see the Chinese are to introduce by 2020 a scheme to make it difficult to travel for those deemed ” untrustworthy”.

    Each of their 1.3 billion citizens is to be vetted and those blacklisted will be denied travel by air, and by their high speed trains. How long before a similar scheme is introduced in England ? Doubtless a blacklist would start with those known to have Brexit sympathies.

    • Original Richard
      Posted November 24, 2018 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

      The Chinese already have a scheme to determine who is allowed to leave the country for business or holiday etc..

  92. Bitterend
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Is that it – you ask..but you’re in the House..you should know best about what is going on..no point in asking the troops..we’re up the cul-de-sac now alright and without a paddle

  93. Monza 71
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Signing up to this withdrawal agreement leaves the UK with no ammunition to take into the next round of trade negotiations. Whoever was to be tasked with the negotiations couldn’t possibly emerge with any kind of acceptable trade deal.

    That is the seriousness of the situation Mrs May is leading us into.

    The only hope now is for a change of leader and a complete change of direction, starting with leaving on WTO terms in March and then inviting Brussels to embark on continuous trade talks in London. I would appoint Nigel Farage as the lead negotiator.

  94. Helen Smith
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Cast iron certainty that we would never leave properly. I think every non EU country in world is looking on in amazement and horror.

  95. Rien Huizer
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,
    I guess the fish will be a EU red line. No fish, no deal. Denmark, Spain, France, Belgiuym and The Netherlands will not want to deal with thgeir angry fishermen. You do not mess around with these people. Besides, half the UK fishing fleet went out of business over the past 10 years, second, the fish foreigners catch in UK waters is not popular in the UK and the fishermen are not equipped for sole and plaice. Besides again, the cod sold in continental; shops tends to be from the North Atlantic and Barentz Sea. Far from the UK EZ. Who wants to risk a deal over a few nostagic Scotsmen?

  96. Chris
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    What are you and the other Tory Brexiter MPs going to do about this nonsense: another extension apparently inserted at the last minute, extending the time before we leave? I hope these reports are not true, but sadly this is what we have come to expect from our apparently deceitful and scheming PM.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1049291/brexit-withdrawal-agreement-transition-period-changed-theresa-may-brussels
    Withdrawal agreement CHANGED adding two more years to Brexit transition period

    THERESA May’s Withdrawal Agreement agreed “on principle” yesterday by Brussels has been sensationally changed at the last minute to provide a new promise on the Brexit transition period.

    The agreement has two additional pages of new text that states the transition period post March 2019 could be extended by “up to one or two years”. The amendment would see Britain stuck with the role of rule-taker rather than rule-maker up until the end of 2020, which will no doubt infuriate Brexiteers. It could also see the EU demand contributions from the UK for the additional time stated, Politico reports. The agreement reads: “For the period from 1 January 2021 to the end of the transition period, the United Kingdom shall make a contribution to the Union budget.”

  97. ian
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Every going great, the country and people expect MPs to do their duty and vote for England and theU

  98. ian
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    and the UK

  99. Atlas
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    May’s now spinning on the media. We had this ‘say one thing whilst signing up to something different’ with Ted Heath.

    May’s withdrawal agreement and future wish-lists are terrible.

    Unless May’s proposals are voted down and as a consequence, May replaced, the possibility of a revived UKIP, under Farage’s leadership again, grows day by day. Existing political parties in other European Countries have lost support heavily by not implementing the wishes of their peoples – so it could happen here in the UK as well.

  100. Maybot
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    The biggest lie by far was that Leave was ever an option and it was told by a Remain Prime Minister. It dwarfs the red bus.

    If I’d known the truth I would not have taken part in the referendum.

  101. Nigel Seymour
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    The PM is clearly threatening 17.4m voters that if she doesn’t have her way then there will be NO Brexit. Is this case? I cannot understand why she is cuddling up to the EU bureaucrats and repeatedly stating they will give us nothing else?? As BJ said, we have never stood up to the EU! Just as Gordon Brown did, she talks AT us and not TO us…

  102. nora mallon
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    You have to pay to get out of a contract,don’t forget everything has to be done legal.This country has to expand we can’t manufactor more goods because we have nowhere to sell them because we can’t sell them outside EU .When we outside we still have to trade their rules because we are not in the club anymore,so we will have our rules they will have theirs.Jobs for the means business expanding,If business people believe it will work they make jobs they pay wages if the bread winner has no job the family don’t eat.we have to pay are bills but we won’t give all that money weekly.we wanted border control if our people can’t or won’t fill our jobs we still need certain skills .

    Reply You do not have to pay to get out of a Treaty which gives you the right to leave without paying!

    • Lorand
      Posted November 23, 2018 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

      If you could point me to the bit of Art 50 which says we can leave without paying, I would be obliged. You are, as ever, winging it, and spouting pure fiction

      • Original Richard
        Posted November 24, 2018 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

        Lorand,

        Please point me to the bit of Article 50 which says we need to make a payment to the EU.

        The HoL, who are not known to be leavers, have said we owe the EU nothing.

    • Al
      Posted November 24, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

      Nora, we certainly can sell outside the EU. My company currently trades with the US Canada, Australia and many others – the current EU rules make it easier to trade outside the EU than inside. When outside we would only have to trade by their rules for that part of our trade that is with the EU.

      The EU market size as a share of world trade has been declining, and Britain’s trade with the EU as a percentage of GDP has also been declining.

  103. Peter Davies
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Keep us closely aligned so we can slip back in wiyhout a fuss ready for the 2024 mep elections.

    That’s the cunning plan baldrick.

    you need to get rid of her asap

  104. Posted November 23, 2018 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Sir
    Given your report dated 22/11/2018, if the requisite number of letters are submitted by Tory MP to trigger a successful vote to remove the Prime minister, will you in order to save the U.K. from a lingering political and economic death, will you then step forward announce your willingness to stand as a candidate to replace her?

  105. Dennis
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    I heard today that it took 17 months to produce the WA. So what was Davis and his group doing all that time? Has he asked her why she did this without telling them?

    Also on Radio 5 T. May was on hand to answer questions from callers. Pity that Mr Redwood and any others with really pertinent questions didn’t call up. Did the BBC cut you out Mr Redwood?

    Also she is still saying the UK owes money whatever the Brexit turns out to be but Mr Redwood says nothng if the WA is not signed – we still don’t know after 2 years! Also no one asks her what are the items which add up to the £39bn.

    Thank god we are not in a war as we would obviously lose through incompetence no matter how powerful we would appear to be.

  106. John P McDonald
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    I voted to Leave the EU but thought the Establishment would never let it happen.
    The Remainers think the EU is for the benefit of the country. It’s not, it’s for the benefit of a very small group of people in Europe with money who are faceless with a few exceptions.
    Thanks to Mrs May and her Cabinet we are in a situation where we would have more power and influence if we remained. If we had made a clean good bye we owe you nothing, we would have had even greater power to influence Europe than this Half-in, Half-out arrangement. Mrs May is only in it to keep her job along with a lot more politicians of what ever party.
    All been a waist of time and money. Really a big Con Trick – problem is we now have 100% of voters unhappy. To be fair Corbyn showed more interest than May in leaving the EU. I would have thought that most people, whatever their view, could not fail to see how the UK was treated in the Negations by the EU. That should have been enough to put people off the organisation and how weak May was a leader of the UK.
    Things can only get worse for ALL.

  107. Jacqui
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    This is the worst deal in history! Theresa May said we will be coming out of the fisheries policy. This morning the EU27 have dawn up another document insisting it’s the fisheries policy or no deal. Unbelievable every red line turned from red to pink to invisible. I never thought I would agree with Jeremy Corbyn on anything but he is right it’s full of ‘will look at, ,aspire too, etc. No guarantees. The EU promised Tony Blair a rebate (or something) after the Lisbon treaty it never materialised. I no longer trust the OM and I certainly do not trust EU, we will be stuck forever like Turkey. I agree with the headline in the Sun, The EU get 39bn and we get didly squat! Totally ashamed of and furious with this government and parliament. My son had never voted,I encouraged him to use his vote in the interests of family. He did for the first time and voted leave. Today he said to me “mum I said it’s a waste of time voting , they just ignore it and do what they want anyway “, sadly i’m beginning to agree with him.

  108. Norman
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Thanks Denis – that’s a gem!

    • Norman
      Posted November 24, 2018 at 12:22 am | Permalink

      I meant this as a comment on Denis’s quote (2.52pm) on the Irish PM’s admission of a deal having to emerge, if the UK do not agree one with the EU.

  109. Turbo terrier
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Two in moderation all day and like with in my opinion no worse than any of those printed
    real democracy is being wiped out in this country and millions will be talking with their feet on a polling day. NO point in voting anymore it is all a farce.

  110. rose
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    Michael Portillo said last night that the whole government would have to resign if they lose this vote, not just the PM.

  111. margaret
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    What is the point in having a democratic voice. Is that all there is? So I’ll keep on dancing etc..

  112. Original Richard
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    If our pro-remain Parliament votes for Mrs. May’s deal, which will lock the UK into the EU’s SM/CU/ECJ for ever, will England be able to exit this treaty by leaving the UK or does the Withdrawal Agreement also prevent this ?

  113. fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 23, 2018 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    W’hat is the point in voting Conservative/Labour. Conservative/Labour etc etc. Just one wrong after another. Why not give another party a chance? What have we got to lose? We’ve already lost it! We’re all whinging and whining about parliament but who sits in parliament? Conservative, Labour and a few Libdims. They are all to blame. Try something new.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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