Migration White Paper to appear at last

According to the press, the government will soon publish its long delayed Migration White Paper. Mrs Rudd in office never got around to doing this, though she was lobbied regularly to do so. Apparently government thinks Eurosceptic opponents of the Withdrawal Agreement will be won round by proposals for the future on migration. I have no idea why they think so.

Their first problem is we will not be allowed to have our own migration policy all the time we rest in the unsatisfactory limbo land of so called Transition. With no guaranteed way out that the UK can use on its own without EU permission, what is the point of talking about how we might use freedoms still to be won in negotiation?

Their second problem is the alleged policy itself. Apparently they want to make it easier for people to come to the UK to take well paid jobs, whilst coming up with some plan to restrict someone in a low paid job to an eleven month stay. That would create a revolving door of people coming to take low paid jobs, whilst increasing problems over housing and access to services to those who come to work for the least money and are most in need of help from the state. Why would Brexit voters find that attractive?

It shows a continuing misunderstanding of why many people voted Brexit. We voted to take back control of our laws, our borders and money, not for any particular answer on migration. Vote Leave did not campaign on migration, though answered on it as others did. Highlighting the fact that under Transition we have not taken back control is unhelpful to the government, whilst their particular scheme sounds mean without controlling numbers in the way voters concerned about this issue would like.

This is another badly thought through policy which is irrelevant were the government to secure its dreadful Withdrawal Agreement.

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49 Comments

  1. Lifelogic
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    You make exactly the right points. Badly thought through policies are a May/Hammond, speciality (Hammond thinks that the highest taxes for 40 years and absurd tax complexity is a great plan, both like HS2. T May even wants to build on EU workers rights and imprison us in the EU noose for ever).

    May’s letter to the nation today shows the woman has gone completely and utterly mad it will fool no one. Fortunately it will have the opposite effect to the one she seeks. She even claims, “It will honour the result of the referendum”. It will in fact fool no one.

    It is ten years since parliament voted through the mad economic and scientific lunacy of the Climate Change Act. Just five sensible and heroic MPs voted against it Christopher Chope, Philip Davies, Peter Lilley, Andrew Tyrie, and Ann Widdecombe, a few also (JR I think) abstained. Thus showing very clearly what idiotic, group think, unscientific, virtue signaling, economic vandals we generally have in parliament.

    Reply Yes. I tried to get the government to drop its Climate Act and declined to support it.

  2. Stred
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    This betrays the view of the europhile MPs, the government, the civil service and its nudge department. They believe that the referendum was lost because the less educated, xenophobic parts of the population were only interested in free movement. Therefore, if they create a Brino, with no escape but a promise of an end to mass immigration, the deal can be swung through.

    The proposal will probably not reduce inward migration anyway, as pointed out by Migration Watch. It will allow universities to employ vital researchers and the NHS to continue recruiting staff where we do not train our own. But it also allows big business to recruit lower paid technical staff when British engineers and IT workers are available.

    The Nudge Department should be told to stick the Nudge and go away. We are not as stupid as they think.

  3. Lifelogic
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:56 am | Permalink

    Danial Hannan today:- This is a calamitous, cowardly Brexit deal – and we’re now being shafted for it by the EU.

    Yet still just 91 Tory MPs say they will vote against it! How could anyone support it?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/24/calamitous-cowardly-brexit-deal-now-shafted-eu/

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:15 am | Permalink

      Also Charles Moore surely has it spot on yesterday:- The PM’s deal is terrifying: it achieves the exact opposite of what Leavers want.

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/23/mrs-may-goes-flat-sell-deal-backstop-price-high/

      • bigneil
        Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:20 am | Permalink

        It is the exact opposite because it is what TM’s buddies wanted. Anyone else is of NO consequence to her or them.

        • rose
          Posted November 26, 2018 at 10:39 am | Permalink

          As I understand it, it is foreign owned and foreign run business which wants it.

          She should instead have asked them whether they would want their countries being run by a foreign power.

    • Richard1
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      It will be far fewer than 91 when the time comes, there will likely also be abstentions on both sides. It could sneak through. Next April we will move seamlessly into a new environment where the dominating political question will be ‘how do we get out of this terrible deal?’.

  4. darren
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    sorry but this is inaccurate,,vote leave campaigned on a australian points system and taking back control of borders ,,,everyone who voted brexit expected free movement to end

    • eeyore
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:37 am | Permalink

      Darren – I voted Leave and formed no expectations about any immigration system. Indeed, I care little about immigration and doubt I am alone in this. JR’s penultimate paragraph expresses my view.

      Today’s post, like several recently, seems aimed at his fellow MPs in the hope of disabusing them of damaging misconceptions. Would that Mrs May’s advisers read them. Her attempts to satisfy the nation’s Leavers without attempting to understand them are not just dangerous but really rather embarrassing.

      Reply I keep Mrs May’s advisers informed of my views on important topics

      • Dennis
        Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

        ‘Reply I keep Mrs May’s advisers informed of my views on important topics’

        Now you tell us!

    • libertarian
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

      darren

      Wrong I voted leave and immigration was no priority for me at all

    • Chris Maughan
      Posted November 26, 2018 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

      Darren,
      You’ve got it wrong for me.
      I voted leave and strongly believe in the benefits of immigration.

  5. darren
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    sorry but you re wrong ..vote leave campaigned on a australian points system and control of borders ..everyone who voted leave expected free movement to end ..every poll straight after the ref verified ending free movement key issue for leave voters

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

      Sorry Darren, wrong immigration was not the big issue for people I spoke to or me. We welcome migrants from all nations that can support themselves and pay their taxes not just work in the gig economy 16 hours per week claiming benefits, then cash in hand jobs and undeclared self employed income that the authorities can’t catch up with.
      Providing housing benefits, tax credit top ups, child tax credits going out of the UK for children not even living here, if it wasn’t a big issue the EU would have allowed DC to change the rules, yes people were cross about this when it was shown how our systems are being worked by tv programs like Benefits Britain, C4 news, other documentaries showing massive house sharing with no HMOs in order to save and take as high a proportion of the earnings back out of the UK to buy cheap homes outright.
      BUT people on here have told us the UK government were complicit in this, the UK government could have made benefits only available if you’ve lived in the UK sixteen years.

  6. darren
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    also leave voters are getting tired of brexit mps who only care about trade deals and would be quite happy to see the country concerns on immigration again ignored as it has been for decades..stop throwing out your toys and blaming theresa may delivery on ending free movement as the reason why she has ended up with loss of sovereignty deal how can you take control of borders without controlling borders ????

    • Maybot
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:24 am | Permalink

      Thankfully there are rubber boats crossing the channel and grown chaps turning up in classrooms to keep us motivated.

      You see, they had to let this thirty-year-old become a secondary school student to fit with EU doctrine. It wasn’t a case of corruption but one of denial and cognitive dissonance.

      This is what being in the EU brings you. Politicians and officials who will twist reality to make the EU alright.

  7. Mark B
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    We need to make a number of things clear.

    There is a difference between migration and immigration. Migration means to me, temporary worker. Someone who comes here to work but nit settle. An immigrant wishes to settle. I have no problem with either but would like them to be recognised as such.

    People wishing to enter the UK legally are always welcome but, those seeking to enter it illegal, especially if they have just come from another ‘safe country’ are just that – illegal and therefore criminals. These criminals either need to be sent back or, tried in a court of law for illegal entry and imprisoned.

    If big business want people to work here, then they can pay for it. You cannot have an open door immigration policy and free at the point of service public services. I think I need not explain why. Anyone or any company wishing to employ a non-UK national should be able to do so, but the employer must meet the full costs. Eg. Healthcare, pensions, benefits, schooling and so on. Once employers realise the full and true cost they may consider employing a UK national instead. And why should I subsidies big business and pay for my own unemployment and wage decrease ? I am happy to compete, but only on s level playing surface.

    And one last thing. ALL non-UK national, irrespective of where they come from must be treated the same. Just because they are EU Citizens, or even from the Commonwealth should nit give them any extra special rights over others. It should be about the individual, and nothing else.

    • TRP
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      OK, but please explain how a youngish single EU or non-EU person legally in the UK and working there with a decent salary (£60k+) therefore paying each year a “reasonable” amount to HMRC and getting no benefit whatsoever should not be entitled, say, to the NHS, given that a sizeable number of UK natives earning much less than that person would pay much less tax and get a number of benefits?

      • Vicky
        Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

        Well quite. If they pay their taxes absolutely they should be able to benefit from nhs, schooling etc. We cannot expect businesses to fund this. Can you imagine how unsettling that would be for a working family if they came here, settled into jobs, schools etc for then one of them to be made redundant. Not a very well thought out solution.

      • Mark B
        Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

        This is post BINO. I have stated here many times that those already here deserve to have their status continued U changed. So you example does not stand. But if a similar person were to arrive after BINO then I do not want them to have the same rights.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 26, 2018 at 11:25 am | Permalink

        TRP & Vicky Mark B

        Currently Non EU citizens coming to the UK to live and work require a Tier 2 Visa sponsored by their prospective employer. This currently includes a Healthcare Surcharge

        Once settled then their taxes and NI cover their benefits like anyone else. Following a full Brexit this same system would then apply to any EU citizen NEWLY arriving to work ( existing EU citizens are already protected) Unless the government decide to change the system

        • a-tracy
          Posted November 27, 2018 at 9:22 am | Permalink

          libertarian, could the NHS charge the EU Countries for healthcare provided in the UK like the EU Countries charge back to the UK for healthcare they provide even if the person is working and paying UK national insurance?

          Is this reciprocal in all the EU Countries that UK emigrants live in such as Spain, France and Italy? I read that Spain recharges even for people who are working over there.

  8. Ron Olden
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    Public concern about migration has subsided significantly since the numbers coming from the EU dropped sharply.

    We don’t need all this complex bureaucracy and micro managed ‘policy’. The simplest and only migration policy necessary is a market led one.

    Just ensure that people who come here NEVER become entitled to any ‘in work’, or ‘out of work’ benefits, pensions, social housing etc, and have to pay an extra premium to cover the full costs of their NHS care from day one, unless and until they are approved to become British Citizens.

    Make them or their employers pay a deposit it on their arrival which they get back if and when they leave, or become British Citizens, and make it clear that they can only remain here if they are registered on an Electoral Register (albeit not necessarily entitled to vote) at what we regard, as a normal household dwelling.

    It should, (if thought necessary), also be relatively easy to introduce an identity card scheme for them which they get in the form of a card from the DVLA, similar to a Provisional Driving Licence. The DVLA is now well equipped to link up with the National Insurance Record system.

    By the very nature of my ‘policy’ we would then be left only with the migrants economically worth having.

    • Maybot
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:27 am | Permalink

      And there shouldn’t be free things for people who are already here and who have refused to do that work.

      Otherwise you are still getting state subsidised labour.

    • Steve
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:21 am | Permalink

      Ron Olden

      “It should, (if thought necessary), also be relatively easy to introduce an identity card scheme for them”

      As long as it’s for them. No Englishman, Welshman or Scot should be ordered to show their papers.

      A better solution, I feel, is simply to allow immigration based on the integrity of the nationalities concerned, how much we can reasonably accommodate without detrimental impact, and only with the approval of the British people.

      If they don’t want to integrate – they shouldn’t be here as far as I’m concerned.

      I also disagree with the thugs notion that Eastern Europeans should be thrown out. I know lots of Polish, Czech and Romanians. They are hard working and respectful people, who, unlike us have not lost their sense of ingenuity. They are the immigrants we should want to stay in this country. Not the ones who come here for the benefits alone while expecting to live by their laws and cultures.

    • margaret howard
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

      What are we going to do though if and when other countries retaliate?

      There are currently around five and a half million British people either living and working abroad or having retired there.

      How would we cope if they were forced to come back? What employment could we provide for them? Many obviously left because they couldn’t find a suitable job.

      How would our health service cope with such an influx without the many foreign workers doing much of the work British people don’t want to do? Here in the fens nearly all the hard harvesting work is done by foreigners as locals refuse to take their place.

      Beware, my Lord!
      Beware lest stern Heaven hate
      you enough to hear your prayers!

      Anatole France

  9. sm
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    “This is another badly thought through policy”….that phrase is surely the leitmotif of the Prime Minister’s reign.

  10. Steve
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    “Migration White Paper to appear last.”

    Of course ! That way they can get it through because they know those who might otherwise refuse will by then be worn down and just want to go home.

    “Highlighting the fact that under Transition we have not taken back control is unhelpful to the government”

    Unhelpful in the fact that the conservatives will rightly be voted out of existence, and finding themselves in fear of ever going out in public. I kid you not.

    They have a choice; betray UK sovereignty, or kick May out now and just leave the EU.

  11. Nig l
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Apart from the nonsense of the proposed policy, does anyone believe the Home Office has the resources to police it? A nightmare of administration with umpteen thousands potentially overstaying adding to the ‘millions’ of people already here illegally that the Home Office under Theresa May and continuing now, has failed to deport.

    This is another example of the inner out of touch cabal of government thinking that the electorate will be fooled by some headlines and impenetrable legalise to support them.

    We saw through Cameron on this very point and now May.

  12. Kenneth
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    Conservative MPs would be crazy to vote for the PM’s withdrawal agreement as many of them will be out of job at the next election if they do so.

    • Steve
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:00 am | Permalink

      Kenneth

      I doubt it will bother them, you can be sure they’ve got their own contingency plans, quite a number of them probably even profiting from the situation.

      But; if they do pass this withdrawal agreement – vote them into oblivion we must.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

      I suspect many will be standing down before then. This to ensure that the Tories do not get completely wiped out as most voters can look at the new candidates differently.

  13. Mick
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/25/brexit-latest-news-special-eu-summit-held-finalise-theresa-mays/
    Mrs May keeps stating that the public should support her Brexit deal, am I missing something here it’s not up to the public but in the hands of the mps , who won’t listen to the anger of the public anyway , there is this thought in the back of my head that the reason Mrs May keeps saying the public should support her deal is because she as a back up plan of another referendum/people’s vote knowing full well that it would have a much bigger influence of the Eu/big business/the brain washed new voter/other big finance parties/mps, to keep us in the dreaded Eu, but she would be making the biggest mistake in her career it would alienate the 17.4 million and kill off any credibility of democracy and risk unrest, just a thought

    • Mick
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:07 am | Permalink

      Forgot the other main reason not to go back to the people is because it would truly wedge open the stable door for the SNP to shout there heads off for a second independence vote and who could blame them what’s good for the goose

      • Mark B
        Posted November 25, 2018 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

        To me that would be the only positive.

  14. DUNCAN
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    May’s trying to pacify Eurosceptic opposition with this grimy morsel of legislation. Cynicism doesn’t even begin to describe the manipulative nature of such proposals.

    May’s revealed her true self. Her aim is to keep the UK tied into the EU at all costs. Therefore all proposals put forward by her lackeys can now be seen for what they are. They are not genuine proposals to solve a problem but part of the political game to deliver anti-Brexit

    You are being played with John, like a cat plays with a mouse. You’ve become mere play things.

  15. Christine
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    When she signs the UN Global Compact For Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration next month there will be no need for a migration policy. Not satisfied with giving away our sovereignty to the EU she now gives it to the unelected, unaccountable UN. What are we paying MPs for? Are they not aware of what she’s signing up to? All sensible countries have refused to sign it but I expect TM to be at the front of the queue with her pen in hand. Is there no end to her treachery?

  16. Frank
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Don’t worry John, there won’t be many who will want to come here when all of this is over

  17. JustGetOnWithBrexit
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    “We will regain control of our laws, borders and money says Theresa May

    …………………
    Mythomania

    NOUN

    an abnormal or pathological tendency to exaggerate or tell lies.

  18. RayK
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Whatever barriers we put to free movement of people the EU side will do the same to restrict the movement of UK people in EU countries, if we make laws here that are not in agreement with EU laws then the EU will put barriers to our trade in goods and services. If we make banking laws or laws that matter to EU interests but are not in accordance with EU rules, then ditto

  19. Everhopeful
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    How are we ever going to control immigration if this govt signs up to the UN Migration Pact?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:03 am | Permalink

      Oh..just thought..is that why Brexit is such a ridiculous pantomime? To take our eyes off the UN Migration Pact?

  20. M.W.Browne
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    We do not need any more unskilled immigrants, of which there are far too may here already. I’m sick of hearing farmers say they need these people to pick fruit. Mechanise and automate, as the Dutch have done. If a business can’t exist without taxpayer subsidised workers, it should gp out of business.

    Whay are so called asylum seekers being sent to Manchester ?
    If London wants them, then London should keep them. Send some to Whitney or Windsor.

  21. ian
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    That right Everhopeful, the UK or what left of it will lay on ship and ferries for whoever wants to come to hear, we will have the biggest migrant camps in the world bar none.

  22. John Barleycorn
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Are we going to get a reciprocal right to work in the EU for up to a year? This seems essential for holiday reps, chalet hosts, foreign language students and the like. A deal where young people can work in the EU/EEA temporarily would do something to recognise the opposition to Brexit amongst younger people.

    Personally, I don’t think our immigration system should treat Danish, Dutch and French citizens exactly the same way as we treat Peruvian and Iranian citizens. Maybe I just have politically incorrect neocolonialst views.

  23. Adam
    Posted November 25, 2018 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    The amount a foreign worker is paid is a raw way of deciding whom we accept. We are likely to want those whose quality & capabilities add values to our nation, irrespective of what income they reach.

    More importantly, we should limit duration of stay to what best suits us instead of conferring UK citizenship on many who have merely arrived here & lingered, often illegally.

    Citizenship should be earned. Someone ‘British’ based solely on a place of birth is obtuse. Some told the Duke of Wellington was Irish because he happened to be born in Ireland. He replied that with such logic, if he had been born in a stable he could be a horse.

  24. Peter D Gardner
    Posted November 26, 2018 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Of course it is ill-thought through. It is nothing more than a sop to Leavers to help get Mrs May’s betrayal through parliament. We are now in the dirty tricks phase running up to the meaningful vote. We will see Mrs May and her Remainers at their worst, with no respect for constitutional propriety or integrity. The only thing that matters is that this deal, which would never pass on merit, will pass through by employing as dirty a bunch of tricks as it takes.
    the only thing that maters to Mrs May is shackling UK to the EU. And let’s face it considering the implications of this, not much else matters much.

  25. Chris Maughan
    Posted November 26, 2018 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    John
    Reading Mrs Mays letter, will someone post a reply in the press ?
    I think her propaganda needs to be exposed as widely as possible.

  26. Chris
    Posted November 29, 2018 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    The UK is set to sign the Global Compact for Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration in Morocco on December 10. Notice the word REGULAR. The UN wants to make migration a Human Right. There is no differentiation between legal and illegal migrants. This agreement is not about refugees fleeing persecution. Instead, migration, for any reason, is to be promoted, enabled and protected. The word CONTROL does not appear anywhere in the final version of the document.

    It is not binding. However, it is meant to act as the legal framework that participating countries commit to use when new legislation is built. It also supresses speech regarding the criticism of migration by expanding what is considered ‘Hate Speech’.

    A total of 12 countries have so far expressed strong opposition to the Compact, including Hungary, Austria, and the USA. Why is the UK set to sign this? The British people want our sovereignty back. We don’t want to give more of it away the global institutions like the EU and the UN. How can the Conservative Party be taken seriously regarding lowering immigration when this is going to be signed in December. The British people did not vote for this to be signed.

    The document is here.
    https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/sites/default/files/180713_agreed_outcome_global_compact_for_migration.pdf

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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