Leave voters are fed up with continuous Project Fear in Parliament and on much of the media

When a General election changes the governing party the media changes its mainstream agenda from the preoccupations of the outgoing government to the priorities of the incoming government. Media reflects the will of the people and the shift of power. Of course it allows the Opposition a say, and the Parliamentary Opposition battles to get some of its priorities onto the media as a challenge to the government. The Opposition gets more attention as the unpopularity of a government increases and or as another election approaches.

Most of the media have failed to reflect this sensible democratic approach to news over the Referendum. Most of them have carried on accepting as news and stories a series of tendentious or mendacious forecasts, predictions and non stories from the Project Fear stable as if the Referendum campaign were still underway or as if Remain had actually won. In this they reflect the Labour opposition. Elected on a Manifesto that said they accepted the result and would work towards the UK leaving the EU, Labour has instead spent the last seventeen months putting the case in the Commons for staying in the EU directly, and being remorselessly negative about leaving the EU at every available opportunity. Within the government the Chancellor and the Business Secretary have also delighted in highlighting gloomy and inaccurate forecasts of what might happen instead of seizing the many opportunities Brexit brings to lower taxes, cut tariffs, improve laws and promote more domestic business.

It is no wonder there is an ever growing gulf between most Leave voters and the Parliament and media which talks at them daily in discordant tones. We are constantly being told we were too stupid to understand what we voted on, that we never voted to leave the customs union and single market which were always an integral part of EU membership which we rejected, and that we should be asked again because we must by now have changed our minds. If an entirely false forecast of a mild recession after the vote would not make us vote Remain in the Referendum, maybe a even more false forecast (called a scenario) of a massive recession after we leave will force us to cry out for a second ballot.

It’s high time those of us who believe in Brexit and have many positive things to say about our regaining our freedom and lifting our growth rate once out were allowed some airtime. There is no indication that this will happen, leading to more people to turn off the BBC news and cancel their subscriptions to the Daily Mail. It as if all the opportunities from Brexit did not exist for most of the media and all too many MPs. The Leave voting public have more vision than the establishment.


  1. Mark B
    December 1, 2018

    Good morning.

    I notice that you have excluded the PM from criticism.

    The minority view have power. That is not to say that they themselves are in a minority in the Palace of Westminster and Whitehall. That minority view has made sure that they have, and will continue to have, all the benefits of their position plus, none of the responsibility that one assumes would go with it. This is because they have either subcontracted it out to either the EU or, various QUANGO’S.

    I have read recently about certain behaviour towards local newspaper journalists. It seems that they are deliberately being excluded from the PM’s carefully managed pre-2nd referendum tour in order so that she can avoid any difficult questions. See links below. I would have thought that as she thinks that this is such a good ‘deal’ (sic) she would have revelled at the opportunity to further put her message across ?

    The BBC is mandated to represent equally as many views on a topic it can. It has been said that people from the Remain side often get greater representation than those on the Leave side. Well why not I say ? After all the majority of MP’s, especially Tory MP’s, and despite claiming to stand on a manifesto committed to Leaving the EU, are prepared to allow this Withdrawal Agreement / EEA Association Agreement / EU-LITE to pass into law.

    Finally, and once again. Can I please ask people to view, Peter Shore’s Oxford Unions address of 1975, please on YouTube. What he says is as relevent today as it was then.



    Reply I am very critical of Mrs May’s deal and am opposing it! Yesterdays blog was all about my disagreement with how she has negotiated

    1. Mark B
      December 1, 2018

      Reply to reply.

      Many thanks and noted.

      1. Hope
        December 1, 2018

        Look at May’s track record, since 2010 the Tories claimed to reduce immigration to tens of thousands. They stood on this for THREE elections. This was to defeat UKIP. Osborne made it clear that no one in private was going to act on it. Highest record in history for immigration, highest record in history for illegal immigrants being lost, two hundred thousand under May, 56,000 under Rudd this year including 700 ex convicts. We had two terror attrocities before the last election, reduced police officer numbers by 20,000 and an inspectorate saying two weeks ago that in no stretch of the imagination are our borders secure! This is a direct result of May policy failings. People have died and been maimed. In contrast her withdrawal agreement offers to give tens and tens of billions of U.K. Taxpayers’ money to the EU for nothing and part of that is for EDF and immigration and trust fund! This on top of the £14 billion overseas aid! Let us not forget Windrush scandal of hers. If I were Corbyn I would relish the opportunity to work all of this into May to demonstrate she cannot be trusted on any level over immigration. Her record is horrendous.

    2. Cheshire Girl
      December 1, 2018

      Mark B:

      Thank you for putting up the link from the Camden New Journal, i am very familiar with that paper as my Son lives lives there. I always think it is one of the better local papers.

      I hate the way that Politicians visits are always so ‘stage managed’. They are either to workplaces, where the employees sit there obediently listening, or to schools, where little children dont ask awkward questions. It is obvious that they dont want us to know what is going on behind closed doors.

      It is noted that the Prime Minister came in a car with blacked out windows, and with a security entourage, while the rest of the public have to walk the streets of Camden and hope for the best . She never gets anywhere near the ‘real’ person in the street – just selected ones who are easily persuaded.

      1. margaret howard
        December 1, 2018

        Nobody has to walk the streets of Camden or anywhere else. They are out voluntarily to do their shopping or go about their business. Are you saying by not driving about with blacked out windows they are being denigrated or disadvantaged? Or are the blacked out windows just a common sense security precaution to protect Mrs May from a deranged attacker, especially after the murder of Jo Cox?

        1. Mark B
          December 1, 2018

          These people are our servants, not our masters.

        2. libertarian
          December 1, 2018

          margaret howard

          Fully blacked out windows are illegal. Tinted windows need to allow 70% light through minimum

      2. Mitchel
        December 1, 2018

        Perhaps we will have our very own Zil lanes soon for the Supreme Leader and her Nomemklatura!

    3. Lifelogic
      December 1, 2018

      Peter Shore was indeeed sound on this issue and together with Powell, Benn, Foot, Varley and Castle convinced me as a young teenager that we should have left even then. It had been an outrage that lefty dope Heath has taken us in without authority from the electorate. The 75 Government’s Referendum pamphlet said: “Our continued membership would depend on the continuing assent of Parliament”.’ May wants us in a vassal state with parliament having no such power of escape.

      A vasssal state with non of the advantages of leaving. No one sensible could vote for it. Yet it seems that “leaver” Gove, who lumbered us with the appalling May by knifing Boris, will vote for it. May is clearly determined to be one of the worse Tory PMs ever.

      Labour’s policy is just to be all thing to all voters on the Brexit issue with ministers contradicting each other daily. Their only other policies are to incubate envy everywhere, waste tax payers money, steal private property, regulate to death and destroy the economy. May clearly seem to want to give them power to do this and already has a similar but softer damaging tax borrrow and waste agenda.

      “HS2 rail chief Terry Morgan faces sack over spiralling costs Morgan, who Chris Grayling described as ‘world class’, set to go after four months in job” is reported today. Just cancel the idiotic project and cut taxes. The people have far better ways to use and invest the money. The overspending is unlikely to be his fault anyway, after just 4 months in the job he is probably just finding out what a damaging mess he has on his hands.

    4. Peter
      December 1, 2018

      As May’s Withdrawal Agreement looks destined to be rejected it would be sensible to examine WTO arrangements in great depth. Instead the media tactic is to demonise it and dismiss it.

      The general public are not that easily fooled though.

      Remain will just try to force their choice upon us and not worry about undermining belief in the democratic process.

      1. Chris Maughan
        December 1, 2018

        “The general public are not that easily fooled though.”
        I wish that were true. Those who still read, investigate and post on Brexit are in the minority. The majority of the electorate are blindly led by sound-bites on main stream media, with little interest or respect for the detail.
        If Mrs May repeats her mantra enough, “This is a good deal for the UK, it delivers on the results of the referendum”, the majority of the electorate will simply come to believe it.
        Sadly, the media (and establishment) mass propaganda strategy may well turn enough shallow thinking Leavers, should there be another referendum.

    5. Helen Smith
      December 1, 2018

      Peter Shore’s ‘Fear, Fear, Fear, that’s all they have’, I run that through my mind everytime the Remoaners start bleating.

      Would that we had MPs of that calibre now, our fine host excepted of course.

      1. Mark B
        December 1, 2018


        I obviously assume you saw the video. If you have, many thanks for taking the time to do so. Now one last request. Ask others to look at it too, and them remind them, that this was back in 1975 – 43 years ago !!!

    6. Dennis
      December 1, 2018

      Many thanks for – Peter Shore’s Oxford Unions address of 1975 – so pertinent.

      1. Mark B
        December 1, 2018

        Many thanks for watching.

  2. oldtimer
    December 1, 2018

    The attacks on the integrity of the Leave campaign and the people involved in it are also evidence of establishment hostility to the referendum result. Some Remainers do not accept the result and it’s consequences. Their influence is pervasive throughout the media. That is why you and others do not get air time.

    They seem to think that all 17.4 million people who voted leave will roll over and accept their attempts to frustrate the result. In that they are profoundly mistaken.

    1. Lifelogic
      December 1, 2018

      The BBC line on Brexit is unbelievably biased, nearly always about 5 remainers to every pro Brexit person in any discussion. The use of their experts and “fact checkers” is highly biased and damaging too.

      The only subjects they are even more biased (and also total wrong on) are climate alarmist “science” (treating long-term weather projectionsas from the likes of the Met Office as proven fact) when they struggle to get it right even for a few days hence) plus Corbyn’s insane magic money tree and theft of private property economics.

      1. Bob
        December 1, 2018


        ” always about 5 remainers to every pro Brexit person in any discussion”

        Their alleged “comedy” panel shows, like the News Quiz and the Now Show have no leavers whatsoever, just 30 minutes of anti Brexit, pro EU, anti Trump anti populism ranting.
        @Mr Redwood

        “more people to turn off the BBC news and cancel their subscriptions to the Daily Mail”

        Well at least you can still read other newspapers after you cancel your Daily Mail subscription, but if you cancel your BBC Licence and then get caught watching the commercial channels you’ll be prosecuted.

        1. Mark B
          December 1, 2018

          You can watch the commercial channels via the internet and catch up. But do not use BBC iPlayer.

        2. Lifelogic
          December 1, 2018

          Indeed we are taxed (under threat of imprisonment) to pay for the BBC and the government only to see them spend a much of the money on lies and propaganda to tell these same taxpayers what to think. It starts in primary and secondary schools. The BBC is absurdly biased and wrong on almost everything (rather like May and the Libdims).

          Any Questions today had Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, MEP Dan Hannan, Lord Hennessy and Shadow Treasury Minister Clive Lewis MP and Jonathon Dimbleby. So one person talking sense on railways and the likes and four others endlessly interrupting him with idiotic left wing drivel. Has Yasmin ever said anything remotely sensible in her whole life?

          Listening to Clive Lewis, McDonnall, Diane Abbott and now Kate Osamor resigning (but not as an MP) one had to come to the conclusion that Corbyn is surrounding himself with people so bad that even he looks relatively sound and coherent.

    2. margaret howard
      December 1, 2018


      “Some Remainers do not accept the result and it’s consequences.”

      “In a 52-48 (Remain win) referendum, this would be unfinished business by a long way.” Nigel Farage

  3. Dame Rita Webb
    December 1, 2018

    Looking at the recent share price action of Daily Mail and General Trust, Lord Rothermere may be regretting his new choice of editor

    1. Maybot
      December 1, 2018

      I’ve boycotted it and that means no visiting its site.

      I could just about tolerate its nastiness but what market is there for a nasty version of The Guardian ?

      If you want to see a cliff edge look at a graph of their share price over the last month.

    2. margaret howard
      December 1, 2018

      No, they have decided they made a colossal mistake and are prepared to suffer the consequences.

      1. Maybot
        December 1, 2018

        The original editor Paul Dacre didn’t think he’d made a mistake.

        The rumour is that the Viscount of Rothermere got fed up with his wife complaining to him that she was socially outcast because of the DM Brexit stance.

  4. Len Grinds
    December 1, 2018

    It is now almost two and a half years since the referendum – well over half the lifetime of a normal Parliament and a longer period than gap between the 2015 and 2017 General Elections. Hundreds of thousands of people too young to vote in 2016 are now enfranchised, hundreds of thousands of people who voted in 2016 are now dead. Achieving Brexit has taken a long time – entirely the fault of the Leavers as they squabbled and continue to squabble over what Brexit actually means (Norway? Canada? no deal?) – and the mandate for Brexit, two and a half years old, long ago ran out. Democracy demands a new vote in 2019

    Reply The givernment and Parliament told us it was a once in a generation vote. A country cant keep chsnging its mind about these large strategic issues

    1. Renton
      December 1, 2018

      A country that can’t change its mind is no longer a democracy

      1. matthu
        December 1, 2018

        What do you call a country that fails to implement its democratic decisions?

      2. Lifelogic
        December 1, 2018

        True but that is the main problem of May’s absolutely appalling deal it has no escape. It is the worst of all worlds and we even have to pay for it.

        Changing your mind is fine, changing it every other day can be hugely damaging. A once in a generation vote. The people got it right and it must be respected. May and Hammond must go or we will get Corbyn and a UKIP revival to split the vote.

        1. Steve
          December 1, 2018


          “May and Hammond must go or we will get Corbyn and a UKIP revival to split the vote.”

          Agreed, except that UKIP are an insignificance, they saw their purpose was to light the fuse, and run.

          Where are they? Where is Farage when he should be relentlessly at May’s jugular ?.

          When you actually look at it, the prospect of Corbyn can’t be any worse than what we have now, so may as well vote for him at the next election just to throw the tories out.

          1. Dennis
            December 1, 2018

            Farage is on LBC 5 days a week, total of 6 hours – you can phone him, for or against – he prefers against.

          2. John Hatfield
            December 1, 2018

            UKIP is still a party, a resurgent party. Tactical voting saw us backing the Tories to achieve the referendum. Tactical voting is no longer necessary.
            We are back.

          3. Fedupsoutherner
            December 2, 2018

            Steve, ukip are there. The media choose to ignore them. They don’t want the public to hear the truth. Its called brain washing.

      3. Jagman84
        December 1, 2018

        A Government that refuses to carry out a clear instruction from the electorate is undemocratic. Or is democracy only carrying out your view?

        1. Steve
          December 1, 2018


          You’d have thought at a time like this the conservatives would for once do as we say. But they won’t, because most of them have been bought off in one way or another.

      4. Sir Joe Soap
        December 1, 2018

        The country hasn’t changed its mind.

      5. libertarian
        December 1, 2018


        Yeh but before you can change your mind you have to have actually implemented the change

        You people really are deluded

        According to the latest poll 52% now favour leaving under WTO terms

      6. Maybot
        December 1, 2018

        May we change our mind on capital punishment then ?

    2. Mark B
      December 1, 2018


      I was agreeing with you up until your last sentence. The thing is, what about all the times we signed new treaties with the EU ? Should w not have had a vote each and every one ? By your logic we should have, but we did not. Those advocating a second referendum ignore the fact that we were never given the choice to join the then EEC. Edward Heath rammed us in. No peoples vote back in 1972.

      1. margaret howard
        December 1, 2018

        Mark B

        “Edward Heath rammed us in?”

        In the 1975 referendum 17 and a half million (67.23%) voted YES


        8 and a half million (32.77%) NOS

        It was a resounding victory and rescued this country from disaster.

        1. Edward2
          December 2, 2018

          That was about joining a common market not the United States of Europe.
          We were lied to at the time.

          1. margaret howard
            December 2, 2018

            “Extract from the official 1975 referendum leaflet:

            Aims of the Common Market are:

            Bring together the people of Europe

            Raise living standards/improve working conditions

            Promote growth/boost world trade

            Help poorest regions of Europe/rest of the world

            Help maintain peace/freedom”

            That’s what we’ve got.

          2. Edward2
            December 3, 2018

            If only.
            28 disparate nations with hugely different standards of living.
            High taxation High unemployment Dreadful levels of youth unemployment.
            Low growth Huge ECB debts Falling share of world trade.
            Dangerous expansionist foreign policy.

          3. libertarian
            December 5, 2018

            margaret howard

            There were just 6 ( six) members of the EEC when we agreed to stay in. No single market, no common currency and no freedom of movement

    3. eeyore
      December 1, 2018

      Len – Just accept that, having caught the most almighty cold with the last referendum, no government will ever call another without being certain of the result in advance. EVER.

    4. Original Richard
      December 1, 2018

      Mr. Grinds,

      It seems to have escaped your notice that a remainer PM and a remainer Parliament are in charge of the negotiations for “achieving Brexit”.

      If leavers had been in charge, as they should have been (in a GE does the leader of the opposition become PM ?), we wouldn’t have had the EU write the Withdrawal Agreement.

      The referendum took place 4 decades after the first referendum to join a “Common Market” during which we told the biggest lie ever told in this debate, namely that joining would not affect our sovereignty.

      1. Lifelogic
        December 1, 2018


      2. Mark B
        December 1, 2018

        Sorry to correct you, but we never ever had a referendum to join. The referendum we had, back in 1975, was to remain.

        1. John Hatfield
          December 1, 2018

          In the EEC.

        2. Lifelogic
          December 1, 2018

          Indeed the dreadful socialist Ted Heath outrageously took us in without authority. Then we finally had the referendum under Wilson when they falsely claimed it was just a “Common Market” and was just for free trade.

    5. Nigl
      December 1, 2018

      Nonsense to suggest it is the Leavers who have caused the delays, nothing to do with the Remainers led by Gina Miller and the undemocratic House of Lords fighting a constant war against the decision, the regular stream of Remainers to Brussels to elicit their support and the legion of ex senior politicians who thought they would add their views, oh and HMG doing almost nothing for 15 months?

      Do you work for the Daily Mail?

      1. Alan Jutson
        December 1, 2018


        Agreed, in particular the Mp’s and Ex Mp’s who have lobbied the EU to brief them against the UK.
        This really is treasonable behaviour when you help a foreign power to to gain power over your own elected Government.

        Not a nice word to use I agree, but no other word really fits that sort of behaviour other than traitors to the cause.

    6. Stred
      December 1, 2018

      LG is putting the case for s referendum as the final part of their plan. The media and most politicians are already doing the same. It is coordinated from their office in Millbank.
      When May is interviewed, as in the BBC 5 programme, their are no awkward questions about the clauses in the Withdrawal Document which bind us or block trade agreements. Only questions such as”will you resign if you lose the vote” or ‘are you tired’. Then in the interview after she signed, the same questions and no difficult. The Sky journalist actually asked the same question for a third time after someone already had. Then she is trained to say “It isn’t about me”. The questions must be vetted. The TV journalists cannot be that thick.

    7. Steve
      December 1, 2018


      “The givernment”

      Sometimes a typo does have a ring of truth about it.

    8. Denis Cooper
      December 1, 2018

      There never was any popular mandate for the Lisbon Treaty, a rejigged version of the EU Constitution, which introduced a withdrawal clause with a guideline period of two years for negotiation.

      Personally I do not think that is unreasonable as a guideline, the period could be shorter if negotiation sped along or it could be longer if necessary.

      On the other hand I do think it was unreasonable for the EU to insist on sequential rather than parallel negotiations when Article 50 states:

      “… the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union … ”

      And a Prime Minister who was genuinely committed to our interests would never have agreed to that without protest, and would not be repeating the EU’s mantra that it cannot negotiate a trade deal with the UK until after we have left.

      Which, it bears repeating once again, is why Theresa May is lying when she says that she has a trade deal, a good trade deal with this or that important concession by the EU as an accomplished fact when in reality nothing has been settled, it is all still up for negotiation:


      “The final design of the economic partnership will be the subject of negotiations that will begin immediately after our withdrawal.”

      “The Brexit deal will guide these talks, providing instructions to both negotiating teams to get the relationship ready by the end of 2020.”

    9. Jagman84
      December 1, 2018

      I wouldn’t be so sure about the young. They are becoming wise to the Marxist mafia in the education system. Add in the influence of Grandparents, who stop them wasting their life with socialism and your ‘plan’ is on shaky ground. As a top supermarket says, “every little helps!”

      1. jerry
        December 1, 2018

        @Jagman84; Nonsense, if anything grandparents are the ones influencing the young to vote Socialist, when they reminisce about how their (great) grandparents were not expected to re mortgage their homes or sell them to pay for NHS/DHSS care they had already paid to the State for in advance via both general taxation and NI.

        The young also tend to be far more web-wise, both as content consumers and as content creating activists. Corbyn won both the party leadership (twice) and also came far closer to being PM than all but the most devoted of ‘Corbynista’ ever thought possible due to the young mobilising via the internet, not because the establishment MSM backed him over others. You also forget that Corbyn’s general silence during the Brexit referendum was deafening, having been a long term europhobe -long before the so called Brexiteers have been, and many traditional Labour areas voted very firmly for Brexit…

    10. Oxiana321
      December 1, 2018

      Mr Grinds,
      There is a saying that my father’s generation used to come out with that has more than a ring of truth about it:

      “If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain”

      It also makes a fallacy of the notion that somehow because the older generation who voted leave are dying and are being replaced by a younger generation there is a natural and growing majority who would vote to remain. As they say, it evidently takes several decades of experiencing the world to realise that Utopian visions are seldom what they seem.

    11. Maybot
      December 1, 2018

      “entirely the fault of the Leavers as they squabbled and continue to squabble over what Brexit actually means ”

      Err no.

      That is entirely down to Remain muddying the waters.

      I wouldn’t even trust the vote counting in a second referendum – that’s how far banana I fear we’ve gone.

  5. Nigl
    December 1, 2018

    I can ignore the media or more accurately chose what I read. What I cannot ignore is the total lack of ambition or hope from this government and how this has exposed the mediocrity of its members and their lack of political courage and honesty.

    1. Mark B
      December 1, 2018

      . . . exposed the mediocrity of its members . . .

      Exactly ! The EU doing all their work for them has allowed mediocre ‘greece polers’ to climb the system. Now it looks like their nice little jobs are under threat they will do anything to protect it.

  6. Original Richard
    December 1, 2018

    As well as cancelling their subscriptions to the Daily Mail, leavers should be looking carefully from which organisations and from which countries they are making their purchases.

    1. Steve
      December 1, 2018

      Original Richard.

      Indeed !

      I’ve stopped buying anything that comes from France, Belgium, Germany, Spain, Holland, and Ireland.

      Cars, food, clothing – the lot. I can honestly say everything I buy these days is either British, American, occasionally Polish food stuffs.

      Living on the coast,I even have a very good chippy who sells cod sourced from British waters and by British vessels.

      Basically; ‘your country insults mine, I have the position and British resolve not to trade with you’. Shame we don’t have a government of similar determination.

      1. Timaction
        December 1, 2018

        Agreed. Totally agree with you. I will never buy another German car or appliance. Plenty of alternatives.

    2. Helen Smith
      December 1, 2018

      Am doing so, anything Irish or French is right out the window.

  7. Fedupsoutherner
    December 1, 2018

    This all should have been simple. The results of the referendum should have been implemented in full without delay. This is what we were offered at the time. We all knew coming out of the single market and customs Union was an option and we said fine. All the consequent wrangling has been for the benefit of those MPs that didn’t like the result and wanted it changed. Parliament voted to up hold the result and now they are going back on their word. What’s new? As with the scaremongering before the referendum, the media and MPs are now in danger of overload. The plot to scare people and get them to vote again with a different result is obvious. I just hope people can see through the bull and hold their nerve. I hope the Daily Mail goes under for the way they have behaved. I don’t buy it anymore, in fact I’ve stopped reading and listening to the garbage being reported now. Just as Trump says, its all fake. If there were to be a second referendum and the vote was still to leave I can see the launderettes around Westminster being busy with a lot of dirty underwear! I have not changed my mind.

    1. Steve
      December 1, 2018


      “I can see the launderettes around Westminster being busy with a lot of dirty underwear! ”

      Well Fedup, when the lid blows off in this country most of ’em won’t make it to the nearest Launderette.

  8. Gary C
    December 1, 2018

    We are a successful nation.

    We have succeeded in ignoring problems that a little foresight could avoid.

    We have succeeded in rearing snowflakes who are frightened of change.

    We have succeeded in indoctrinating our people to blindly follow and accept what the media decide is the latest hot topic.

    We have succeeded in continually voting in politicians who delight in telling us what we want (How many times do we hear “people want bla bla bla”?) when they are obviously so out of touch with the electorate.

    We have succeeded in giving away our country allowing us to be governed by a foreign power.

    It is time for change, time to succeed in taking back control, time to fight and put things right . . . . . . . . . . If only!

    1. Steve
      December 1, 2018

      Gary C

      Well said.

      But don’t dismiss the notion of there being a fight (which we will win) as you may have noticed the very discreet civil control measures which have recently been sneaked in place.

      They know the degree of public anger, they know this could result in civil uprising, and they also know we’ll be after them when it all kicks off. That’s why they refuse to disclose plan B, because plan B is really a means to ensure their escape, probably across the Channel.

      Did you expect anything other than this from quislings ?

  9. formula57
    December 1, 2018

    Very well said!

    If and when Parliament over-turns the referendum result (with BRINO etc.) I am ready for a lifetime of defiance and non-cooperation.

  10. Javelin
    December 1, 2018

    A few words and their relationships need explaining.

    Goals, frustration, annoyance, anger and confrontation.

    When your goals are frustrated it leads to frustration.
    When somebody deliberately frustrates you it leads to annoyance.
    When you are deliberately annoyed against your rights it leads to anger.
    Without recourse leads to confrontation.

    So not fed up but angry, and recourse will be delivered out at the ballot box.

    If you are not aware of the anger the political punishment will come as a surprise.

    1. Mark B
      December 1, 2018


    2. Mark B
      December 1, 2018


  11. Steve
    December 1, 2018

    “The Leave voting public have more vision than the establishment.”

    You’ve got that one absolutely right Mr Redwood.

    I think what terrifies most remainers is the prospect of having to roll their sleeves up and get on with the hard graft of rebuilding the country.

    Indeed, look at the make up of remain demonstrators, it’s obvious.

  12. Bob Dixon
    December 1, 2018

    I voted leave. I believed that after we left, the UK , in time, would regain its confidence to be a better run country. I am very confident that at 11.00 am on the 29th of March 2019 we will regain our freedoms.

    1. DrakeM
      December 1, 2018

      Bob.. Am afraid you are deluded if you think that after march 2019 our lot will be improved in some way.. if it were going to improve we’d see signs of it well before now. Chances are we’ll go back to the 1960’s in some ways..in fact our freedom to holiday abroad will be greatly reduced..also as we won’t have the money to start with..so our young will have to settle for seaside in Blackpool and Butlins for those lucky enough..they were the ‘good old days’. But in airports seaports everywhere else we’ll see much more police, customs, immigration, veterinary inspections, clerks and rubber stampers – all a part of taking back control

      1. Al
        December 1, 2018

        If we sign Mrs May’s deal then yes, all the above will be true.

        If we opt out, there will be minor inconvenience to those holidaying abroad in Europe, while holidaying in the rest of the world will remin unchanged. Our ‘young’ as you put it will still have access to the webcontent they view daily, not blocked by EU-required content filters that cannot distinguish between parody and theft. More importantly, our tech firms will still have Creative Commons access, our small firms and home businesses can sell direct overseas once more due to the revocation of digital VAT, and industries like fishing and farming can recover. VAT can be adjusted as we need, so products from fuel, to ebooks, to women’s health products can be zero-rated, which will help the poorest a great deal.

        This does require competency in government, which I have little faith in, but leaving the EU does open a lot of options – all at the cost of a little extra paperwork for holidays to one part of the world.

  13. Mick
    December 1, 2018

    A lot of the current mps lied through there back teeth to get elected in 2017 just to keep there lucrative jobs and also to keep UKIP out of Westminster, 85% of mps were elected on manifestos that said they would honour the referendum result what a big con that was, if the turkeys do vote for Christmas and do go for a GE labour and the conservatives along with the lib/green /Welsh will be wiped out by the only true patriots of the British politics , UKIP will triumph this I predict with a landslide victory

  14. Andy
    December 1, 2018

    Good – I am glad you are fed up with it.

    We got fed up during the 30+ years the Tory Europhobes – aided by most of the press – spewed their anti-Europe bile.

    This is a war for the future of our country. You will ultimately lose. That is a demographic certainty. The only question mark is over how much damage you can inflict on the way.

    Oh – and virtually none of you had heard of the customs union until well after the referendum. It is disingenuous and, frankly untrue, to pretend otherwise.

    1. Edward2
      December 1, 2018

      The subject of the Single Market and Customs Union was discussed at length during the referendum campaign and featured in the Leaflet sent to every home in the country.
      You are wrong again.

    2. Al
      December 1, 2018

      Regarding the claim that no one knew about the customs union: to believe that, you must not work in export, media, or most large business in general. It has been a major topic for many years.

      As someone who exports worldwide (save the EU since 2015), yes, I had heard of it. As would anyone who reads the papers, watches news, or goes abroad, so I am hardly an exception. Presuming Leave voters are ignorant smacks of Project Fear.

    3. Chris Maughan
      December 1, 2018

      Your post is so much speculation and guess-work with little base in facts. Your anger is palpable, but anger is such a wasteful emotion.
      You need to research changes in demographic voting preferences to see that an ageing population will more than replace the views of those you believe have passed away. There’s some fascinating scientific evidence to prove so. Your case appears to rest on individuals continuing to hold the same view as they age, which has proven beyond doubt to be false.

      1. Andy
        December 1, 2018

        Of course people change views as they age. What hardly any do, however, is change identity. And Brexit seeks to rob us of our identities.

        My generation and those up to 25 years younger than me came of age as Europeans. Our political views may change – our identities will not.

        We can see this in the elderly today. You all grew up in post war Britain – war victory, British glory etc. Most of you have not got over this nationalism – it is a part of your identity. An increasingly irrelevant identity in a more globalised world.

        1. Edward2
          December 2, 2018

          You will still European Andy.

        2. libertarian
          December 2, 2018


          Two things

          1) Europe is a content of 54 countries , here in the UK we are all Europeans and always will be

          2) Most baby boomers actually grew up during the 60’s and 70’s a time of fantastic invention, innovation, opening up of global travel and the first generation en masse to travel to foreign lands for the joy of it rather than to fight

    4. libertarian
      December 1, 2018


      Seeing as you still have no idea about either the customs union, the single market, most of the appalling regulations passed by the EU or the WTO I think we can safely ignore you

      When your kids and others their age find out that you are still sending live animals for slaughter, stuffing food into geese to explode their livers, and supporting cow stabbing as a sport and then they HAVE to join the EU army to protect that, they will be thanking the 17.4 million enlightened people who voted to leave

      1. hans christian ivers
        December 1, 2018


        Condescending nonsense from you again

        1. Fedupsoutherner
          December 1, 2018

          Hans, Libertarian sums up the incredible cruelty shown to all animals on the continent. I’ve witnessed it first hand and its one of the reasons I returned to live in the UK. Some practices are disgusting.

        2. Edward2
          December 2, 2018

          What is nonsense about that post?
          It is factually correct.

        3. Stred
          December 2, 2018

          Last time I was driving near Barcelona, 5 Irish cattle trucks were heading South. The temperature was 37C. Spanish slaughtering is primitive. EU standards of animal care are abysmal.

      2. Andy
        December 1, 2018

        I don’t eat meat. There is only a trade in live animals because people like you do eat it.

        1. libertarian
          December 2, 2018


          1) How do you know if I eat meat or not and if you dont why do you support it?

          3) Who eats the victims of cow stabbing as a sport?

      3. matthu
        December 1, 2018

        Dangerous fantasy (as Clegg would say)

      4. margaret howard
        December 1, 2018


        ” are still sending live animals for slaughter”

        How do we butcher animals here? Sending ‘dead animals’ to the abattoirs?

        How many millions of pheasants are slaughtered for a bit of fun here each year?

        The fact is that Britain has driven more animal species to extinction than any other European country.

        Reply The UK breeds pheasants and has no intention of letting the species die out

        1. libertarian
          December 5, 2018


          Er I think you need to do some more research

          Transporting live animals in dreadful conditions just to kill them is disgusting, but I take it you are also in favour of stuffing Geese livers and cow stabbing as a sport two…. nice

          Do you have any evidence for your extinction claims?

          25% of all pheasants are killed by foxes according to the wildlife trust

    5. James
      December 1, 2018

      The 17.4 million were able to recognise the EU for what it continues to be. It is profoundly undemocratic to have unelected bureaucrats proposing laws,
      rather than elected representatives. It is rotten and corrupt when accounts of expenditure of tax payers money are not signed off. It is too silly for words that the whole sorry organisation moves lock stock and barrel between Brussels and Strasbourg, and back again on a regular basis. In the interests of keeping posts short I will not go on with a litany of other absurdities that are poured out to us.

      1. Andy
        December 1, 2018

        I agree that the regular move from Brussels to Strasbourg is absurd. But I have never argued that the EU is perfect – it isn’t. But the good bits clearly outweigh the bad.

        Brexit is the equivalent of you burning your own house down because you don’t like the decor of your living room. Sure, the fire removes your decor problem but it leaves you with a whole bunch of entirely avoidable new problems.

        Incidentally, there is plenty to loathe about the British government too but you don’t mention any of those.

  15. Bryan Harris
    December 1, 2018

    We are living in a different world now JR – The global establishment – those that poke governments to adopt certain tactics and have power over the media – have decided against Brexit. It messes up their plans for mass migration.

    Propaganda is a wonderful tool – it can control the masses and make them revolt in any way chosen, and that’s what we have working against us.
    We certainly do not have a free press, not when they can be made to publish whatever those with real power are demanding.

  16. A.Sedgwick
    December 1, 2018

    Your comments reflect the frustration of many. Equally though that number are also frustrated by May not being subject to a no confidence vote requiring the 48 + letters. Had this been achieved the agreement would not have been signed, no Bill and no grandstanding in Brussels and Argentina.

    History is very much on the shoulders of Conservative MPs. Do they want to be seen as giving away our sovereignty by not seeing May as a complete disaster in years to come.

  17. Christine
    December 1, 2018

    We are up against the wealthy and big business who’s interest is to keep us in the EU. Just look how the EU is treating Switzerland, one of the most successful, democratic countries in the world. Do we really want to be controlled by such a bullying organisation? We need to educate our young to the dangers that lie ahead if we don’t manage to leave.

    1. margaret howard
      December 1, 2018


      “Just look how the EU is treating Switzerland”

      What exactly is the EU doing to Switzerland?

      Knowing the country and its people intimately, I doubt whether anyone could get away with ill treating them. Very pugnacious lot.

      If there is any one country that doesn’t need anybody’s help in looking after itself, it’s the Swiss.

  18. Alison
    December 1, 2018

    Agree so much with all our host’s points.
    Strongly agree.
    Alongside Project Fear, there is Project Hide. Mrs May has been doing more of that than I thought. Not just the off-the-books £0.8 billion to the EU for Turkey and the European Defence Fund (hidden in DFID books, see Facts4EU). But Facts4EU and Veterans for Britain reveal what Mrs May has been signing us up to in the last two years (Facts4EU web site today, 1 Dec)

  19. Iain Moore
    December 1, 2018

    Leavers not only have more vision than the British establishment, they have more faith in our country than them. In fact the whole EU project was the loss of faith the British establishment had in us, as it was said at the time of our entry to the EEC, they were ‘managing our decline’.

  20. hans christian ivers
    December 1, 2018


    You keep talking about lower growth rate in the Eu and higher growth rate when we leave in spite of all statistics proving that , the growth rates in Europe and the industrialised world dropped after 1950s and 60s and have never reached the same level again.

    The higher growth rate by leaving has not been proven either

    1. libertarian
      December 1, 2018


      Yet another pointless, wrong and fact free post from you. What is the point?

    2. Mark B
      December 1, 2018

      The point made is that Remainers and Europhiles point to the EU and the Single Market and claim that it makes us richer.

      Leavers like myself do not care about the money. I just want to be a self governing country once more and have those I elect responsible for looking after our interests.

      That’s all.

  21. DUNCAN
    December 1, 2018

    I applaud your efforts John but you know as we all do that while May is PM the probability of the UK leaving the EU in the way we understand it to mean reduces by a considerable margin.

    May must be deposed and you have to invest all your considerable efforts in achieving this

    Millions of Leave voters (democrats) are looking to MPs like you to ensure the result of the referendum is adhere to. This adherence is vital in regaining the confidence in British democracy that’s been lost by the actions of an anti-Brexit political establishment and their determination to nobble the people’s will

    You have a huge responsibility at this most important juncture in British history. You have history on your side, consistency of thought and deed and a career in which you sought to always defend our nation and its democratic structures unlike the incumbent PM and others that’ve gone before her

    Don’t go to the grave with regrets

  22. Atlas
    December 1, 2018

    Quite so, John.

    Vote May’s (or should that be the EU’s?) deal down.

    P.S. Has she signed us up to an ever growing EU defence force behind our backs?

    December 1, 2018

    It’s high time those of us who believe in Brexit and have many positive things to say about our regaining our freedom and lifting our growth rate once out were allowed some airtime.

    This is why I now believe a change of leader is vital. I was prepared to give TM the benefit of the doubt. I know a few people who voted remain but without any real conviction so I didn’t consider that voting Remain would necessarily reduce her determination to deliver a successful, positive Brexit. Unfortunately, I was wrong about Theresa May.

  24. JustGetOnWithBrexit
    December 1, 2018

    It required a ‘big politician’ with honour and commitment to deliver the Leave decision and the Tory Manifesto.

    Instead, we have a very ‘small PM’…not persuasive…just manipulative…beyond parody…with all the attributes of a limpet.

  25. hardlymatters
    December 1, 2018

    I don’t think anyone ever said that leavers were stupid- maybe deluded

    If anyone still thinks there is a world out there with Free Trade deals with other nations waiting they have only to look at the agenda and the going-on’s at the G20. They can see where our minister for new Free Trade deals Dr Liam Fox is not even attending, preferring instead to use the time to put a spin on things at home and signal that he is going to side with the May camp in the upcoming vote- and why you might ask- well because he has seen the light- there are no new easy free trade deals out there waiting- none- he knows this, as does M Gove and so now is the time to row back a bit. Unfortunately the deluded Leave voters will be the last one’s to get the message and by then we’ll be safely anchored in the lee of the EU Bloc and it will be all over.

    1. libertarian
      December 1, 2018


      Um heres a tip. Do some research before posting your opinions. As when you are easily proved wrong it makes you look very silly

      For evidence of looking silly ask Acorn about French Defence shipyard ownership

  26. den
    December 1, 2018

    Is there any chance of the Treasury team of Europhiles establishing the true level of British tax payers cash we hand over to the EU, each year? There are our gross contributions, some of which is handed back as a ‘rebate’ although the destinations of OUR money coming back is set by Brussels who use OUR money to bribe our organisations like the CBI and a multitude of Universities, mostly disguised as ” EU Grants”. When in reality it is OUR money being manipulated by the Brussels boys to promote their cause not that of this country. In return for receiving OUR money via EU grants, they must always support the EU or lose that Grant. Isn’t that wonderful? Sounds so much like a racket, doesn’t it?
    In addition, how much do we pay into the CAP and the CFP? And to their own Overseas Aid Fund and every other extraneous donation they make to unknows across the EU and beyond?
    Something certainly is not legal else their Auditors would not have refused to sign off their annual accounts each year for the past 20 odd years.
    I do wonder why there has been no action by the EU members to call for an independent Fraud Squad enquiry into this very suspicious behavior from a so-called ‘democratic’ organisation. Had it been a British business, the Directors would be in the dock. But it appears the EU is immune from such prosecutions. And that is very worrying. Even more reason to Leave. So what are we waiting for?

  27. Kenneth
    December 1, 2018

    The problem is that there is no sanction on the BBC.

    Complaints direct to the BBC are futile – I’ve tried it.

    OFCOM itself appears to suffer from the same Remain bias and is no help.

    And, of course, those in public life who hate the BBC bias know that they risk never being invited on the BBC – and risk their careers – if they bite the hand that gives them a few seconds airtime (if they lucky to be granted a few seconds in the first place). For them, it’s a catch-22.

    The only people that can call out the BBC are those with a high public profile who the BBC cannot ignore. Trouble is, that public profile was largely gifted by the BBC and the BBC will take it away again as soon as they become critical.

    The unelected BBC has tremendous political power and this is immoral imho

  28. NickW
    December 1, 2018

    The media have been opposed to Brexit from the very beginning, attacking and denigrating any person or organisation who fought for it.

    After the Referendum the media criticised and opposed the result, giving legitimacy and empowering those who wished to overturn a Democratic vote.

    In the USA the media did and have done the same thing with the 2016 election result, giving encouragement and legitimacy to those who not only did not like Trump being elected, but who were determined to overthrow him and ditch the result of an election. The UK can expect the same fate.

    The engines of Democracy in Sovereign States are being deliberately destroyed by those who wish to abolish the Sovereign State and bring in Global Government. Forced Migration is being used to destroy the cohesion of society within the Sovereign State, allowing it to be destroyed by removing patriotism and the feeling of belonging.

    The media has its own agenda, and it is not one shared by the rest of us; Global Government is sought by those who wish to do the Governing; it is a power grab; the media is being used to manipulate humanity into accepting it.

    Seventeen million people understood and understand how the EU is developing and the Globalists ultimate ambition, and decided they want no part of it. If the Sovereign Parliament of this Country openly aligns itself with the forces of Globalism, those 17 million people are not going to accept it. There will be war between Parliament and the People; hopefully it would remain a Cold War but that cannot be guaranteed.

    When Parliament debates the end of England, for that is what they will be doing, they need to remember that they are sitting in a pool of petrol, playing with a box of matches; and if that thought makes MPs hair stand on end; it should.

  29. nhsgp
    December 1, 2018

    France and the Brexit debate is interesting. Look at what’s going on with the yellow jackets. No leaders, just a mass movement against the state, organised over social media. The root cause, that massive debt caused by socialism, running a pension ponzi.

    Brexit is tightly connected with that debt in the UK. People are being forced to hand over billions, 209 bn a year now, to pay the ponzi debts. Brexit is by and large a reaction to that. It won’t solve it for obvious reasons.

    So the failure to act in both cases, is going to result in the Tories being wiped out like Labour in Scotland, socialists in France. It doesn’t take much for things to tip to Le Pen or Melanchon. You could easily get the same in the UK. Governments can try and legislate against the rivals, use the police and the courts, but it won’t work. The alternatives will get power and use those mechanisms against the people who caused the mess. See Turkey for how that works.

    So what’s May’s big error? She thinks she can compromise and ignore the referendum. The deal is complete ****. Walk away.

    Offer the EU free trade in goods and services, people and capital.

    However tell the EU that.

    1. No criminals will be accepted [Residency is irrelevant, commit a crime and you are deported and bared from the UK]
    2. No discrimination will apply
    3. No recourse to public funds. [The bit they won’t accept] 12K a year in tax at a minimum.

  30. nhsgp
    December 1, 2018

    There is also a simple response to project fear. To use that in favour of leave.

    The current deal is a transfer of 60 bn to the EU.

    At 20,000 nurses per billion demand that remain state why we should sack nurses to bail Junker out of his pension mess.

  31. Chris
    December 1, 2018

    This excellent videoclip of Sir Bernard Jenkin grilling Theresa May in Committee touches on Project Fear and supply of medicines (May herself referred to her diabetes medication on air some days ago and introduced further ambiguity about supply) but even more importantly demonstrates clearly May’s disingenuous, her incompetence to perform solo in answering questions i.e. without prompters, and exposes what many would consider a ministerial breach of the code of conduct, with regard to not keeping Dominic Raab DExEu in the loop.

    Retweet by Owen Paterson of Better Off Out tweet
    “WATCH Sir @bernardjenkin grill Theresa May at this morning’s Commons Liaison Committee meeting. It’s worth your time. Why did @DominicRaab not find out about part of the draft withdrawal agreement until it was too late? May couldn’t find an answer.

    Sir Bernard Jenkin grills Theresa May during the Commons Liaison Committee meeting on 29/11/18

  32. Andy
    December 1, 2018

    Sam Gyimah’s resignation is interesting – and poses a question for Brexiteers.

    He’s quit over Galileo. Now this is a project that I’d wager most of us knew little or nothing about before 2016. That includes most of you. I doubt anyone at all cast a Leave vote because they wanted to quit Galileo. Indeed prominent Leaver Andrew Bridgen is among those outraged that we are leaving it.

    Mrs May says we will build our own version. Obviously that costs us more because we pay the entire bill rather than sharing. It will also take several years – and a lack of available frequencies mean it may not get built anyway. So why are we leaving Galileo?

    The EU is not kicking us out – as Mr Bridgen cliams. Rather our participation would violate at least one of Leave’s red lines. Is Mr Bridgen alone among Brexiteers by being angry at the consequences of his own vote and his own red lines?

    1. Maybot
      December 1, 2018

      All space ventures now rely on the Russian Soyuz space programme.

      Russia is not in the EU.

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      December 1, 2018

      Well then perhaps we should get a rebate.

  33. NickW
    December 1, 2018

    There are more and more fake May supporters on the Internet, parrotting that “Her deal is the only way to achieve Brexit”

    Wh0 is paying for them, and who is organising them?

  34. NickW
    December 1, 2018

    Isn’t life strange?

    The Sovereign People said to the Sovereign Parliament ; “We want to be Governed by you; not the EU”. and the Sovereign Parliament said, “Leave us out of it; ,we want to take our orders from the EU”.

    With May’s Brexit deal, Parliament is actually debating a “No Confidence” Resolution on itself.

    Will Parliament decide it does not have any Confidence in its ability to Govern the Country? (and then abolish itself).

    1. DrakeM
      December 1, 2018

      NickW.. Ah yes we know what sovereign people said but what did big business people say.. and what have bank people being saying.. also what has the IMF being saying and the World Bank? So who’s telling it to T May at the G20 summit right at this time? Suffice to say thd sovereign people don’t count for very much in the line up.

  35. ian
    December 1, 2018

    There are a few more details on the UN mass migration policy in the daily express today, to which your government wish to sign up to in full.

  36. ian
    December 1, 2018

    The UN migration policy makes a mockery of Mrs May promise on the EU migration to the UK and reveals it as a lie’

  37. Martin
    December 1, 2018

    Champions of a second Referendum – Times columnists – Remainers all:
    David Aaronovitch
    Philip Collins – leader writer; was Tony Blair’s leading speech-writer; chairman of Demos
    Daniel Finkelstein – associate editor, chum of George Osborne
    Oliver Kamm – Blair supporter
    Matthew Parris – Ex Tory MP, who now describes himself as a ‘liberal’

  38. Lindsay McDougall
    December 1, 2018

    On TV – certainly on the BBC and often on Sky – leaving with No Deal on WTO terms is referred to as ‘crashing out’ or ‘catastrophically crashing out’. No other perception of leaving on WTO terms is admitted.

    So let me summarise what is needed before March 30th 2019:

    (1) We need the EC on behalf of the EU Member States to publish a schedule of the tariffs that they will apply to UK exports to the EU-27 under WTO rules. They need to understand that high tariffs will meet retaliation.

    (2) We need to tell the EC that if there are ANY non-tariff barriers – delays or other malicious nonsense – applied to UK exports – then we will pay NONE of the £39 billion bung.

    That’s ALL that we need to do. Even Mrs May should be able to handle that.

    After that, progress towards a Canada plus plus style agreement can proceed in easy, well prepared stages.

    May I punch above my pay grade and suggest some campaigning tactics for Brexiteers. One of Enoch Powell’s attributes was that he knew when to peak his campaign. In both 1970 and in February 1974 his major speeches were delivered in the final week before polling day. Brexiteers should be flooding the airwaves in the two days prior to the Commons vote on 11th December, with two themes:

    (1) How to ensure on orderly exit on March 29th.

    (2) Our own version of Project Fear, giving full chapter and verse of the European Commission’s fanatical pursuit of a European Federal State, including (a) the European Constitution masquerading as the Lisbon Treaty (b) The Five President’s Report and (c) the military purposes of the Galileo project and a European Army. Lay it on thick; make it a real horror story.

  39. Simon Coleman
    December 1, 2018

    On elections resulting in change….you’ll remember that we had a General Election half way through the Brexit negotiations. Both main parties campaigned on the basis of achieving a deal with the EU and they won over 80 per cent of the vote. And your response?….carry on arguing for a No deal Brexit!! Hypocrisy perhaps?

    1. Edward2
      December 2, 2018

      The manifestos spoke about honouring the referendum vote and leaving the EU.
      Doing a deal which meant actually leaving.
      May’s Withdrawal Agreement is not a deal and it is nothing like leaving the EU.

  40. Davek
    December 1, 2018

    Yes the people are fed up with the fake media- wonder where we heard that one before?

  41. Chris
    December 1, 2018

    It is reported in D Express that various MPs including Soubry and John Mann have observed that May is supremely confident, which is surprising as she must know the maths of the vote coming up. The conclusion is that she has already masterminded an alternative which she is confident will get through and which will fool the Brexiteers.

    Wouldn’t surprise me one bit. She has the whole “establishment” of globalists/deep state/NWO promoters behind her. I sincerely hope that the Brexiteers know what is happening (Nadine Dorries indicated as much) and have the power to do something about it. This really is a coup against the people that May is effecting. Quite beyond belief. To me it is treachery.

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