Building border walls

The Democrats in the USA have two main aims for their majority in the House. They want to damage Mr Trump as much as possible, even hoping for an impeachment. They want to stop him carrying out one of his most advertised campaign pledges, to extend the border wall with Mexico.

I say extend to remind readers that a part of the US/Mexican border already has some wall, thanks to former President Clinton, himself a famous Democrat. Parties can change their views, but this is quite a change with a lot of passion behind it. The Democrats have plenty of supporters this side of the Atlantic from liberal minded people who also dislike the idea of Mr Trump keeping people out through physical barriers designed to prevent illegal migration.

The moral and historical basis of this is not a strong one for many advocating no wall. The Roman empire defended itself with walls, including a long and famous one across the England/Scotland border. China built the longest wall of all which remains a major tourist attraction. More recently a substantial number of countries have built border fences and walls to control illegal migration, keep out drugs and weapons and impede the spread of terrorism. Whilst the USA has been rowing about whether to build any more Mexican border wall, member states in the EU have constructed at least 1000 km of high fence and wall as border protection.Ukraine is currently embarked on the major task of fortifying its whole long frontier with Russia.

In the south Spain has aggressive fences at Ceuta and Melilla, to try to keep out illegal migrants from Africa. Greece has defences against Macedonia and Turkey. The French assisted by the UK use a high fence at Calais. Estonia and Latvia have some protection on parts of their Russian borders. I do not hear many protests about any of these. More contentious has been the long and high fences used by Hungary along her frontiers with Croatia, Serbia and Slovenia, presumably because the EU and many of its member states do not like the government of Mr Oban.

So I am asking readers today do you think walls and fences are necessary to control crime across frontiers, or are they damaging to legitimate migrants? How does Mr Trump’s Mexican proposal differ from many of the walls and fences the EU has already allowed to go up around it borders as member states have decided they need to take action?

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225 Comments

  1. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:17 am | Permalink

    The only reason Americans are moaning about the wall, is not the wall itself, but their desire to get rid of Trump. Just like with remainers here, they cannot abide the fact that they lost. So are they saying they would not have a wall at all? Of course not. It’s just another way to have a go. As for walls in general. Yes, they are necessary if you want to control numbers. We have one. It’s called the English Channel but government officials aren’t using it. Without some kind of barrier it’s an invite to all and sundry to walk right in. There are legal means by which people can enter countries and if you don’t use them then you’re not welcome. Numbers have to be controlled especially when social services are stretched and housing is scarce. Trump is only doing what he was elected to do. Governments must listen to the people. It’s what they are there for.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:59 am | Permalink

      Exactly.

      But MPs so rarely do listen to the people, most are just after a Career so loyalty to party is the best route to advancement. Or they just enrich themselves by acting as paid “consultants” to vested interests such as the green crap lobby. Then just a few Cast Iron, Low Tax at Heart lies delivered before elections, to be quietly dropped the day after the election.

      • Hope
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:29 am | Permalink

        JR, Clinton’s congress address was very powerful to build a wall and stop immigration as he thought it was a threat to their nation. You need to quote it. It was far more robust than Trump.

        We read in the papers and articles how CCHQ are threatening to suspend associations for publicly denouncing May’s deal! We read they are being threatened if they deselect remain MPs even in leave constituencies?

        Treason Moa might not like democracy and is prepared to lie on a daily basis to say her servitude plan keeps faith with the referendum. But despite insults from Ken pompous Clarke the people do not beleive or trust her and know they voted leave. They also know Treason Moa is aware of what they voted for because she said herself remaining in part or half in and half out is not leaving! This hardening stance against grassroots Tories was furthered by Cameron to change your party to New Labour and insults that they were the ‘turnip taliban’ and ‘swivel eyed’ loons! Good way to inspire support, not. Nevertheless, Ken pompous Clarke thinks it is a good strategy to insult e little people unable to think what is best for the country in their ‘opinion poll’. He forgets what was said and voted for in parliament.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

          Indeed she was dreadful again on Marr today (as was Marr – what would you like to say now PM?). Same repetitive drivel from her. Just telling blatant lies about what her agreement delivers (not challenged at all by Marr). No plan B she says and the vote will go ahead.

          Her necklaces seem to get larger and larger and more and more absurd too. Perhaps to distract from her insane “let’s destroy the Conservative Party” agenda. Does she spend more time choosing her outfits and accessories than she does thinking seriously about the reality of her “deal”, what the party members think and how to win the next election?

          • Hope
            Posted January 7, 2019 at 9:34 am | Permalink

            70 percent of Tory supporters do not want her servitude agreement and 80 percent want her gone! She said when the party no longer wants her she will leave. Go should be ringing in her ears. However she knows that if the UK remains in the EU it does not matter whether Labour or Tory is in government because they will wave through what the EUmtells them. So her servitude plan to bind the hands of future parliaments is in her mind nothing else. She is a traitor to our nation. No patriot could promote or agree to her servitude plan for our nation.

      • Ed Mahony
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

        @Lifelogic,

        To me, it’s largely down to death of traditional Christianity.

        Trad Christianity that gave us:

        1) Concept of Just Politics (politics of Vizier Joseph of Egypt as opposed to politics of the Pharaohs).
        2) Parliament, Monarchy, Judiciary, and so on
        3) Patriotism – established by St Thomas Aquinas and others
        4) Concept of Family: Mum + Dad and extended family
        5) Work Ethic – as opposed to greed. Look at work ethic of Quakers and Catholic Medieval Guilds.
        5) Education: Oxford, Cambridge, Eton, Grammar Schools
        6) Beauty, Arts, Architecture & Imagination: Mozart, Medieval Cathedrals, Shakespeare, Leonardo da Vinci, Bach, St Pauls Cathedral, Salzburg, Venice, Florence etc ..
        7) The focus on Love (tough and soft), Peace, Joy, Beauty, and healthy balance between the Physical and the Spiritual, Order and Mystery. On Modesty of character as opposed to arrogance. Sense of the Eternal as opposed to just the here and now.

        • Ed Mahony
          Posted January 6, 2019 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

          And trad. Christianity is as much about Romanticism (in good sense) as it is about Realism (in good sense).

          Today, the celebration of The Epiphany, when the Three Wise Men followed the star to Bethlehem captures this well.

        • Ed Mahony
          Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

          And I have no doubt, that these three wise men, carrying gold, frankincense and myrrh on camels probably heard choirs of angels sing something like Handel’s Messiah as they rounded the last hill for Bethlehem.

          Btw, The Three Wise Men and all their learning and exoticness represents perfectly the learning and sophistication and exoitness of trad Christianity – which we see reflected in the music of Handel’s Messiah (or Bach’s Oratorio) written in particular for this time of the year. Not forgetting how some of the greatest scientists and men of learning were all devout Christians. That Christianity is as much about order and logic and mathematical precision as it is about mystery and the poetic and beautiful.

          And how the Vizier Joseph of Egypt represents this exoticness as well. God wants us to be civilised. He wants to bless us like he blessed, through Joseph, ancient Egyptian civilisation.

          And just as the Three Wise Men represent the sophistication of trad Christian, the shepherds represent the simplicity of trad Christianity as captured by the beautiful Austrian carol Stille Nacht.

          • Ed Mahony
            Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

            ‘by the beautiful Austrian carol Stille Nacht’ – Austrian Christianity gave us the sound of Stille Nacht (and the priest who wrote the words to Stille Nacht was born in Mozart’s Salzburg).

            Where as modern, anti-Christian Nazism, gave us the sound of the terrifying Stuka bombers.

            This represents perfectly for me what happens when the world deviates from traditional Christianity.

        • Ed Mahony
          Posted January 7, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

          Apologies, one last rant about religion – this month represents the 80th anniversary of the first publication of Tintin.

          Tintin, written by a Catholic, was declared a hero for children (and for adults) by the Vatican few years ago.

          I wish our kids would read Tintin instead of playing so many dumb video games and spending so much time on social media (yes to vid games and social media but in moderation).

          Tintin doesn’t just represent strong moral values, but also sense of adventure, problem-solving, humour and great art work!

          This rant is all part of what I think is going seriously wrong with our society at moment (and the train incident in Surrey a few days ago really got me thinking again after I experienced a horrible knife crime in London last year).

        • Mary Dennis
          Posted January 8, 2019 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

          Couldn’t agree more!

    • Richard
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      Its not jusr Democrats who oppose – anyone who applies logical thought processes does. A physical wall with Mexico is the most expensive and least effective means of border security.
      Social services are stretched because of austerity. We control migrant and refugee numbers by letting everyone else take them which we can do much cheaper as we have a rather convenient sea channel.
      Oh and those who voted remain are not the only losers – everyone will lose (apart from rich elite anti tax avoidance dodgers of course)

      • NickC
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:32 am | Permalink

        Richard, Anyone who applies logical thought processes realises that a “wall” is essential in controlling migrant inflows from Mexico. As JR points out, that included the Democrats at one point.

        International law says that refugees should stay in the first safe country they come to. Clearly that is not the UK, unless the refugees are EU citizens attempting to escape from the EU.

        Most nations in the world value their independence for its own sake. That is why Britain’s ex-colonies were so eager to exit the British Empire. And I agree with them. Similarly, the UK has voted to exit the EU empire in an act of self-determination also protected by international law.

        • norman
          Posted January 7, 2019 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

          Short answer, good fences make good neighbours .

      • Hope
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:37 am | Permalink

        Clinton promised in public very clear unambiguous words secure border and failed to deliver!

        The US public and Democrats should be outraged Clintons failure not Trump acting on his election pledge to the people! Good lesson for May: deliver what you promise and what is written in your manifesto and stop lying. I accept it is too late for May because the trust is completely gone.

        • Hope
          Posted January 7, 2019 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

          Look and listen at Clinton’s state of the union address in 1995. It is readily available and compare to democrats in the US and left wingers here today over Trump and immigration. Totally disgraceful hypocrites. They all should be lambasting Clinton for his failure to deliver on what he said.

          • Kenneth Almquist
            Posted January 8, 2019 at 12:59 am | Permalink

            In his 1995 State of the Union Address, Clinton stated that, “our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of new border guards, by deporting twice as many criminal aliens as ever before, by cracking down on illegal hiring, by barring welfare benefits to illegal aliens.” Clinton did not call for any new policies (like a wall); he merely listed the policies he had already implemented. The suggestion that he failed to deliver on what he said is nonsense because he had already delivered.

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

        Richard. What tosh. How many immigrants do you propose to take. Take your pick from millions. How are you going house them when we already have a homeless problem. Who are these people? We don’t know half the time. We are storing up problems for our NHS and for our own people. It is the duty of government to protect their own citizens first and foremost and not be nanny to the rest of the world. Helping in their own countries is the best way forward and not making us all poorer when we have to pay for and keep millions more.

        • Max Taylor
          Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

          You’re right. As a country we don’t look after our own old and vulnerable, which is wrong. The government is generally useless at doing anything anyway and wastes and misspends our common wealth of tax money, but the one thing they must and can do is physical security and order, meaning borders, military, police and courts. Of these I don’t feel confident about any at the moment except maybe police, I tbink the UK still does have good police on balance, at least compared with other countries which use much more force and are less regulated, and less professional. We’re lucky we don’t have big border issues. Other countries do. A wall or fence might be cheap and effective, generally that’s how it’s done worldwide. The USA has specific problems with its border about drugs, criminal gangs, and mass uncontrolled immigration. Maybe we could use our foreign aid budget to help them, our greatest allies…

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

        @Richard, just because you write or think something does not make it so.

        How is having a wall less effective than not having a wall? More expensive maybe but it is a one off capital cost which will boost local economies in the manner of Keynes which your ilk are fond of when it suits you.

        The cost of social services per head and therefore overall has gone up due to immigration and births to immigrants not austerity.

        Everyone who values independence will win from leaving the EU. We will be able to vote out governments we don’t like who will then be charged with improving things without the EU as an excuse. Surely that must appeal.

        • Richard
          Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

          Narrow Shoulders
          Just because you too write something does not make it true. The current US Mexico wall is ineffective where it already exists and won’t be built for years where it doesn’t as the land owners are resisting.

          • Narrow Shoulders
            Posted January 7, 2019 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

            @Richard – your fuller explanation is not what was written on your reactionary first post.

            A completed wall would be better than no or an incomplete wall which remains the correct answer to your first post and indeed your second post.

            Does your house just have a ceiling? Or does it have walls?

    • Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

      Absolutely spot on, Fedup. I was in Canada in the run up to the US elections. Listening on the radio to Latino immigrants being interviewed in the US was interesting. Those who’d jumped through many years of hoops to become US citizens were very resentful of those who were entering illegally. The message seemed to be that he generally had the support of the US Latino vote in his pledge to ‘build a wall’.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:18 am | Permalink

      We don’t need migrants to actually step foot in the country for them to have an effect on our social services, especially with the judiciary ruling that we have to keep forking out benefits to a Romanian woman and children who have never lived in the country.

    • Bob
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:42 am | Permalink

      @Fedupsoutherner

      “an invite to all and sundry to walk right in.”

      There literally is an invitation on the govt website:
      https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support

      It is any wonder people are fleeing France?

      • Timaction
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

        What a disgraceful non left wing Government. As a taxpayer for over 45 years at mostly the higher rate can I have some of this free stuff? Of course not as I am a cash cow Englishman with no representation!

  2. Stephen Priest
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    Good question.

    Answer: in the eyes of the BBC

    European Union – Very Good
    Donald Trump – Very Bad

    • Lifelogic
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      Also in the eyes of the dangerous BBC:-

      Bikes, buses, trams, trains and walking always good, Planes, trucks, cars bad.
      Private landlords are always “unscrupulous landlords” and exploit tenants.
      Green crap and expensive “renewables” are good, but cheap on demand gas, coal and nuclear is bad.
      Higher taxes and every bigger government and more “government regulation” is always good.
      Enforced BBC licence fee to ensure unfair competition by the BBC very good.
      The dire NHS is the envy of the World despite all the evidence to the contrary.
      Climate Alarmism is proven fact and no alternative views from the rather more rational & sensible scientists is to be allowed on air.
      They even think “positive discrimination” is not just blatant “discrimination” against the best candidates.

      • Nigel
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:31 am | Permalink

        There is a good book out called “The Noble Liar”, on this subject.

      • Steve Pitts
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

        I think something should be done about the BBC. They are blatantly not doing what they are supposed to do.

      • Andy
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

        You should watch The Mash Report on the BBC.

        Not only does it ridicule people like you it also has a multicultural cast.

        It’s brilliant.

        • Edward2
          Posted January 6, 2019 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

          I’ve watched it.
          A bunch of lefty stand ups with a student audience.
          They shout Thatcher or Brexit or Boris as a punchline and they all laugh hysterically.

          • Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

            An audience, eh? Well, that’s novel! At least canned laughter that can be orchestrated is cheaper because you don’t have to vet your audience. And the BBC! Gosh – no bias there, then!

            Andy – do you ever consider you may be being manipulated because you’re easy meat?
            (”consider” = think about, contemplate, give thought to, reflect on, examine, appraise, review)

        • Steve
          Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          A bit personal wasn’t it ? Is that the best you can do ?

          Gone from bashing pensioners to suggesting brexit will harm people’s children, now attempting to stir up racism.

          Utterly pathetic !

        • libertarian
          Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          No one older than 17 watches the mash report . It’s student “comedy”

          Fatcha innit . Get a brain theres a good lad

          By the way this amusing schtick you have that people that voted Brexit are all racists is typical of the dumb, brainless and hard of thinking remain trolls that constantly post lies about job losses, drug shortages and inability to visit other countries etc.

          With each post you make, you reinforce the decision to leave as being the correct one

      • Hope
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:55 am | Permalink

        The security and safety of the population in the country is your govts first priority. It has failed as we saw with the last two terror atrocities. The Manchester bomber allowed to walk in and out from Paris at will.

        Detention centres must come back into use force for people being processed while their identity and status is confirmed. Javid announced more to be released in the community when the HO has an appalling record for losing hundreds of thousands of people!

        May failed and lost hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, last year Rudd lost 56,000, 700 of whom were convicts to be deported. The day after she told police chiefs any request for more money would fall on deaf ears! Gauke has made prisons holiday camps. It took Sadiq Khan to take legal action to prevent the release of Warbouys ! He now advocates for telephones in cells!

        Walls, fences, sea, moats cells work. Allowing criminals and terrorists into our communities result in deaths and injury. It is difficult to understand why your govt fails to understand basic safety and security measures. We also need a proper system to count and identify people in and out. Not estimates on what they say! FFS get a grip. Nothing in Javids immigration paper other further capitulation and risk to our society.

      • Richard
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

        Completely bizarre – my view on the BBC is the opposite. Whenever any scientist talks facts on the BBC about climate change, they have to have an opposite view, such as a flat earther or someone from ‘The Global Warming Policy Foundation’ or some other right wing think tank who refuse to say who funds them.
        The number of imes right wing brexiters spouting blatant untruths that go unchallenged by BBC presenters has reached epidemic proportions.

        • Edward2
          Posted January 8, 2019 at 7:34 am | Permalink

          That is wrong richard
          The BBC has a settled policy on climate change.
          It very rarely has anyone on with a different point of view to that policy.
          As for brexit just check the line up on Question Time
          Always a remainer biased panel usually 4 to 1
          There has never been a Question Time panel since the referendum which had a leave majority.

    • jerry
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:22 am | Permalink

      @Stephen Priest; You missed off Sky News, Ch4 News those parts of commercial radio that have political or current affairs coverage plus the majority of the print media and just to illustrate the above;

      I see TM, in today’s Daily Maul, wants us to believe that those PM’s who are critical of her WA are a risk to democracy, no Mrs May YOU and your WA are that risk, wishing to reduce this country to the status of a vessel state.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

        Exactly.

  3. CHRISTOPHER HOUSTON
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    I was brought up not long after WWII. Films depicting those white and red zebra-like border barriers on roads were commonplace and matter-of-fact in films (movies ) with James Bond characters smashing through them at speed with soldiers or policemen shooting automatic weapons at them for they did not stop to be checked.
    It seems bizarre, weird, incredible, fantasy that nowadays, that you call yourself a country and don’t have proper borders, checkpoints. It’s to stop unwanted guests piling in from the billions who wish to come here behind our backs and live on us.Like a lock or bolt on your front and back door. It is normal.
    A garden wall, or fence is pretty too. You can grow ivy and roses and clematis on it. Beautiful!It is a pity we have a sea really.

    • Mark B
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      I find it ironic that, those that do not wish to have effective barriers to illegal entry are quite happy to hide behind tall barriers, armed police, all there to protect them from what ? Us perhaps ?

      • Steve
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:49 am | Permalink

        Mark B

        Ironic indeed, but deliberate none the less. It’s the ‘security’ legacy created by Blair. A means for them to do anti-English things while hiding from any accountability.

        I don’t believe those running the country should have such protection, after all if they can’t walk amongst us without coming to harm, then that in itself tells you they’re not fit to govern.

        • Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

          That is an interesting point, Steve. If they have allowed a society to develop that is dangerous for THEM, then what hope for the rest of us? Just because they can defend themselves is no excuse for allowing such a menacing and perilous society to develop.
          We are the ones who pay – for their safety, security, inflated wages, happy holidays, and all this by our own vulnerability – literally.

    • Robert Valence
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:24 am | Permalink

      Absolutely. Also, “not long after WWII” people in England, Wales etc lived with doors unbolted and unlocked. One trusted one’s neighbours and there was mutual respect. I’m afraid those days are long since gone: this government and those of EU states foisted on us, without any agreement or discussion on our part, “neighbours” who are at the least “unneighbourly” and leaving one’s doors unlocked is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately, even if you have them locked it’s still no guarantee!

    • NickC
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

      Christopher, The sea does provide a barrier against illegal entry to the UK. But it is not foolproof. I heard a Welsh farmer (on the BBC – they were too late to stop him) give evidence that illegals are coming ashore at night on deserted parts of our coastline.

      So a wall (the sea for us) is necessary, but not sufficient. An important additional policy would be deport all foreign criminals (ie: in receipt of a custodial sentence) back to their country of origin. There is no excuse for that to be less than 100% for the obvious reason they are already in custody.

      • Rien Huizer
        Posted January 7, 2019 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

        If you cannot stop drugs being picked up by fishimng boats and landed in remore harbour, how can you stop other illegal trade?

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted January 7, 2019 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

      Any idea how many migrants come in legally (and then stay illegally) vs ones that come by boat etc? Any idea how many people are smuggled into Ireland and then free to cross the border? The UK problem with illegal migration (mind you, EU migration is legal until it stops being so) is that the country has no clue how many residents (legal and illegal) there are for lack of a proper registration system. The same with the US of course.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 7, 2019 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

        migration watch estimate one million illegals in the uk
        in usa estimates are 8 million

  4. Dominic
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    You’re missing the point John. You really need to wake up and see through the mist of old style politics. The rise of the liberal left is a threat to us all.

    This isn’t about the construction of a physical border between the US and Mexico – This is about the rise of liberal left fascism and at its heart is the politicisation of race and gender with both being used to tarnish, slander and neutralise the political enemy

    Look at the following and tell me how is it possible that these two hypocrites can still show themselves in public? Shameless, vacuous and viciously anti-democratic in their instinct. They will not accept the popular vote that delivered Trump to the White House. Sounds familiar? Brexit?

    Both Obama and Clinton voted for Bush’s US-Mexican wall policy back in November 2006. And now they oppose it. Why?

    This isn’t about the construction of a physical border between the US and Mexico. This is about removing Trump as the POTUS. The democrats are desperately searching for a pretext to slander and demonise Trump and then a reason to impeach him. The Democrats refuse to accept the will of the people as expressed two years ago when Clinton was defeated by a TV personality, Trump.

    The rise of liberal left fascism in the last 20 years represents the most potent threat to popular democracy since Adolf Hitler. At its heart is a hatred and intolerance of white, heterosexual male. For many liberal left zealots Trump is the apotheosis of the one thing they hate, WHM.

    Liberal left bigotry and their hatred of popular democracy is as disturbing as anything I have ever seen. The hate crime agenda pushed by May which as led to laws targeting white, heterosexual male specifically is the culmination of such a policy and you John voted for such laws.

    When will moral MPs wake up and see what is happening here? White hetero male is under attack from all sides and MPs like you John have voted through laws to demonise husbands, grandfathers, sons, brothers, uncles and friends simply because those people are white, heterosexual and male

    Brexit MPs have been described by this PM herself or indeed her allies have as ‘white, old men’. Is this acceptable. Would she make reference to non-white or female?

    • Mark B
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      The rise of liberal left fascism in the last 20 years represents the most potent threat to popular democracy since Adolf Hitler.

      At the end of the Second World War, the Fascists were not routed out of power. They just swapped their brown shirts, baggy trousers and jack boots for more mainstream offerings by Armani and Saville Row. They became respectable and, in time and along with their views, acceptable.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:32 am | Permalink

      Dominic,
      Yes!!! Brilliant post.

    • The PrangWizard
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      I’ll second that Dominic.

    • Hope
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:43 am | Permalink

      Interesting how the press made much of three women in the three top public sector jobs, CPS, Met police and PM. All three have made a pigs ear of their role and job with appalling failures but nothing said about the gender as it was when given the jobs. We need the meritocracy May spoke of not based on ethnicity or gender. Stop the quotas they do not work they reduce standards. As for the gender nonsense in the military at the moment, breathtaking stupidity.

    • Timaction
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

      The cancer of political correctness is now ingrained in our mainstream establishment and they cannot see the wood from the trees. Many of us are victims of this culture. We need radical change and reform of our voting system to reflect the wish,s of the people and bring the politicos to account!

      • Fuddy Duddy
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

        Timaction – I don’t know about today but in the 60s, 70s, 80s perhaps the wishes of the people would bring back hanging – would that have been OK?

        • Stred
          Posted January 7, 2019 at 10:08 am | Permalink

          In the csse of Philip Hammond and other MPs working to thwart Brexit, yes.

    • Steve
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

      Dominic

      “White hetero male is under attack from all sides and MPs like you John have voted through laws to demonise husbands, grandfathers, sons, brothers, uncles and friends simply because those people are white, heterosexual and male”

      That is not accurate, Dominic. Look up John Redwood’s voting record.

      • rose
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

        Yes, Steve, this is where I parted company with Dominic. Otherwise, sadly and alarmingly, spot on. My husband I am not worried about as I feel he is now out of the wood, but I am very worried about my son.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

      @Dominic – Re Liberal left zealots, it was the rise of socialism that precipitated the rise of national socialism. When a doctrine is foisted upon a populous so comprehensively as socialism was and now liberal left issues are there is an equal and opposite reaction to balance it out.

      Dangerous.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

      Dominic. Your post is so well written. Great stuff.

    • Nigel Seymour
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

      Too many words for me I’m afraid. Anyway, Trump is a lot less worse than Blair – then and now.

    • Anonymous
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

      What used to be called racism now extends from to-the-back-of-the-bus abusiveness to disliking rapid change and overcrowding in one’s community.

      I spoke to a young Remainer in my family today who disliked Brexit for its “casual racism” and yet applauded the violent protests in France.

      I said that I preferred to use the ballot box.

      Both Trump and Brexit were voted for. You wouldn’t think so going by the liberal left.

      (Turns out the London People’s Vote march was almost down to a third of numbers quoted by organisers)

  5. Excalibur
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    There is another kind of wall, Sir John. A stonewall. This apparently is what Theresa May is using to play for time and to obstruct the will of a majority of voters. She must not succeed.

    • NickC
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:41 am | Permalink

      Excalibur, Indeed. Theresa May said: “This deal delivers the Brexit the British people voted for”. It absolutely does not. Her deal is not leaving the EU at all. We may be exiting the existing treaties but we are signing up to new ones that tie us to the EU just as tightly. Mrs May is delusional or lying. She should be kept behind a wall.

    • Timaction
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

      The worst Prime Minister in history and enemy of the people. A lying, deceitful individual who is not fit for office.

    • Bob
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

      @NickC

      “Mrs May is delusional or lying.”

      Quoting her in the Mail on Sunday

      “So this is my appeal to my party, to Parliament and our country: in this New Year let’s discover a new spirit of common purpose.

      Blatant as that.

      • Mark B
        Posted January 8, 2019 at 5:30 am | Permalink

        Post of the day.

        Cheers mate.

  6. oldtimer
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    It is self evident, from the examples you quote, that states believe walls or fences are appropriate if they deem the circumstances justify the cost they incur and the deterrence they provide. You did not mention the wall built in Belfast to separate two warring communities during the Troubles. To answer your question, Mr Trump does have a case for a more effective barrier to counter illegal immigration and drug smuggling. No doubt there are arguments about specification, location and cost. But in the USA it seems to have extended to the issue of principle too. But that seems to be cover to attack Trump and one of his key election commitments.

    • Billy Marlene
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:21 am | Permalink

      Actually, there were few walls during the troubles. We (the Army) had to hastily erect wriggly tin walls at interfaces prior to the marching season.

      Since the Belfast agreement there exists a monstrous and permanent ‘peace wall’ between loyalist and republican communities. You should go there, it is another (unpleasant) world.

      • oldtimer
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

        Thanks for the first hand information. I was referring to the wall in Belfast.

  7. British Spy
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    I have cast a flirting glance at the text of Shakespeare stuff recently
    My respect for the Royal Shakespere Company is not quite what it was

  8. Lifelogic
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Sometimes walls can be needed to reduce crime, drugs, terrorism, warfare and similar. But if it is clear to people that even if they are able to enter without permission they will be rapidly returned, then most will be deterred from bothering. Technology and a clear & prompt send back policy can perhaps be rather more effective than a very expensive physical wall, which can often never be fully effective however much is spent on it.

    Meanwhile May continues her project fear as the excellent Lord Lilley points out. This is damaging confidence in the UK and using public funds to do it. Surely this is not a proper use of public money nor of her office? Doubtless she will come out with her usual robotic, repetitive, tedious drivel on Andrew Marr today and doubtless Marr will ask nothing sensible or remotely challenging as usual.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/05/theresa-may-stoking-apocalyptic-fears-no-deal-brexit-win-rebels/

    Also – Scrap ‘white elephant projects’, says Liz Truss – Yes please, no shortage of them from this wasteful government who have given us the highest taxes for 40 years and massive government debt too.

    Start with HS2, all the greencrap and electric car subsidies, Hinkley C, sort out the dire wasteful NHS, cull about 50% of Univerisity places by restricting soft loans to sensible degrees and worthy students. Also cull about 50% of the rest UK government activity, most of which is positively damaging, at best pointless.

    • Richard1
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:32 am | Permalink

      One of the benefits of a change of pm would have been saving £100bn from the hs2 white elephant. Hinckley point should clearly go as well. Hopefully we can still get rid of mrs may before it’s too late to do that.

      On walls I find the humbug of liberal leftists extraordinary, especially those who are loud in their support of the wall-building EU – although not surprising. I didn’t know Clinton had built some wall already- the truth is wonderful. what utter humbug by all those virtue signalling leftists criticising trump!

    • Robert Valence
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

      When your life depends on it and when there is a will do it rather than just posturing, walls can work very well. The wall/electronic fence Israel has built – both along the “West Bank wall” to keep out murderers and the “wall” in the south to keep out infiltrators work pretty much 100%; they have to. I agree though that, where there is a need to deter unwanted migrants then a clear policy to send them back and a determination to effect that policy can work. That’s what required with the latest arrivals across the Channel [unfortunately, Britain’s coast, ports & airports are so porous we have no idea how many are actually entering and how many illegals we’re harbouring]

    • Stred
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:50 am | Permalink

      Yesterday, a caller to LBC from Dublin told us that he manufactured drugs and had had large orders prior to leaving. But that the day after leaving he would have to relabel his products to comply with British regulations enforced by the health authority here. But the law has been enacted putting all UK law to initially copy EU law in order to avoid this kind of problem. So either this man is a liar, put up by the Fear campaign or the medical regulator is being deliberately difficult and trying to undermine WTO or their cliff edge. Which is it?

      • Nicholas Murphy
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

        One thing that is certain is that the quality of journalism in this country is truly appalling. A good journalist would have asked sufficient questions to leave the listener fully informed.

  9. Mark B
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    So I am asking readers today do you think walls and fences are necessary to control crime across frontiers, or are they damaging to legitimate migrants?

    To answer the last part of that question first – “No !”

    People moving from one country to another do so along known and sensibly controlled routes exit and entry points. There is no need for those who wish to enter another country legally to do otherwise.

    Once you answer the last part of that question first, the remainder of it becomes much simpler. Only those with criminal intent seek to gain entry into another country illegally. Therefore, to stop this clear act of criminality barriers to their entry must be erected.

    Presidents and Prime Ministers are elected to office and their first and sworn goal is to protect the nation state from enemies within and without. Borders are essential in this time as those seeking to do harm can appear and disappear at will. If we cannot defend our borders, how can we defend the people and the nation state ?

    The Democrats oppose, ‘The Wall’, not for ideological reasons, but because it is President Trump’s central campaign promise and, if the Democrats stand half a chance of getting back the White House, they need to defeat him on this. The Democrats are putting politics before the safety of the Nation and its people. Disgraceful !

    • Stred
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:23 am | Permalink

      They also reckon that every poor migrant is another Democrat vote, as Labour did when Blair allowed the increase and refused the EU opt out.

    • jerry
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:33 am | Permalink

      @Mark B; “People moving from one country to another do so along known and sensibly controlled routes exit and entry points. [..//..] Only those with criminal intent seek to gain entry into another country illegally.”

      Do they, are they, always, are you not taking a somewhat parochial view?

      What if those “known and sensibly controlled routes” are in the control of tyrants or indeed criminals. For example many an opponent of the Taliban, or the USSR forces before them, escaped via the unguarded borders trails into neighbouring countries.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

      Only those with criminal intent seek to gain entry into another country illegally. Therefore, to stop this clear act of criminality barriers to their entry must be erected.

      Once a law breaker, always a law breaker! Do we want these people here even if their claims for asylum are genuine.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

        If illegal immigrant thinks it is OK to break laws when they are desperate at what point does the poverty they will experience when settled in the UK make them desperate and therefore potential criminals?

  10. Mick
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Mr Trump is right to build a wall the higher the better, as for us we have a wall it’s called a moat around our great country
    Off topic
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6561061/Theresa-warns-rebel-MPs-Brexit-deal.html
    Surely this must have been at the back of her head when she was saying No Deal is better than a bad Deal, well Mrs May a lot of people think that you have a bad deal so go with your word of no deal or is it your intention all along to get to a point we’re you say you have no choice but to go back to the people with another vote so the 2016 referendum can be over turn with the help from remoaner mps/foreign interest Hungarian/ex pms/Eu

  11. Lifelogic
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Bill Cash is spot on as usual today:- When with the penny finally drop for T May just how daft is she?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/05/theresa-mays-monstrous-brexit-deal-would-leave-britain-mercy/

    • majorfrustration
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      See the blog of Prof Jonathan Story -“Writing about history politics and economics”
      a summation and implications of the WA – what a stick up by May. Its not just the Backstop – if anything that’s a minor point.

    • Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:09 am | Permalink

      Good article by Sir Bill. But is T May daft? If she is daft then stronger people than her deliberately voted her in so that she could be manipulated, and they’re doing it very effectively. If she’s not daft then she is wickedly mendacious and duplicitous.

      And if she is, underneath it all, a moral, upstanding and right-thinking person, then she is way, way out of her depth and has been for a long time. If so, is she too arrogant to acknowledge it?

      • rose
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

        Interesting report from Peston (whom one shouldn’t trust) that even Barwell and Sedwill don’t know what she is thinking or what she will do. They are in one silo and she is in another, said unnamed minister.

  12. Cheshire Girl
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Yes, the US does need that wall. I lived there for 15 years, and although they were proud of being ‘a nation of immigrants’, there is a limit.

    I found the Americans to be a very generous people, as we are in the UK, willing to help those in need, but their generosity is being abused. In my opinion, they have a perfect right to decide for themselves who to let into their country. It was widely known even then, that there were parts of Los Angeles, where crime was so bad, that even the Police didnt go there.

    I am no particular admirer of Donald Trump, but he was elected because he promised to do something about those who would come in illegally (among other things), and he is trying to keep that promise. The UK Government are much more reluctant.

  13. Peter D Gardner
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Just back from my first ever trip to Israel and Jordan. Israel has a lot to teach the rest of the West about how Christians, Jews, Muslims and others can live peacefully within one country. But of course the rest of the West thinks it knows better despite the obvious failures of its versions of multi-culturalism and would never take advice from Israel. I met many Arabs – Muslim and Christian – but none who would rather live in Gaza. Quite content in Israel.
    And in Muslim Arab Jordan, Christmas was widely celebrated. A pleasure to be there.
    A lesson for the No Borders activists is that both Israelis and Jordanians greatly appreciate the strong secure border between them because it enables them to go about their lives in peace. Sitting in the roof top bar of my hotel in Aqaba with a glass of more than tolerable Jordanian wine from St George (sense of humour there!), I could see Jordan, Israel and Egypt. Saudi was only 30 minutes away to the south by car. Ships, small boats, hang gliders and aircraft moving in this space freely. Thanks to secure borders.
    Finally on the Good Friday Agreement. There is a myth that this agreement states that there cannot be a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. It says nothing of the sort. What it requires is a return to normal borders. It is true that NI, UK and Ireland had membership of the EU in common and this simplified the negotiations. Normal borders means, in the case of external EU borders, the usual features of other EU external borders. That can include checks at the border, ie., a hard border. Unfortunately, UK committed in the EU Withdrawal Act to not having any checks at the border so there cannot be any.
    We are in this mess through lack of political leadership. The responsibility for this failure rests with the occupant of No 10 Downing Street.

    • Stred
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink

      The Irish are now talking about putting the electronic visa border, that the EU is installing by 2020, on their sea and airports. They are not in Shengen and need to check non EU passport holders, who can pass freely within the continent. The UK has no problem with Irish citizens passing freely since partition and vice versa. We need ID checks and the ability to return those with no right to settle or work. Once the EU starts central taxation and builds its armed forces while charging Ireland, they may decide to leave too.

      • Steve
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

        Stred

        “……while charging Ireland, they may decide to leave too.”

        Yes and they’ll get no support from us.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

      Supposing there were renewed checks at the Irish land border – which there will not be, on either side – what would the checkers actually be checking for?

      Would those grim-faced British customs officers featured in the Irish nationalists’ propaganda images which are freely circulated in the British mass media without any contradiction at all from our government, based in those customs posts which will not be built – as you say, that has been enshrined in an Act of Parliament – be checking that the goods being driven into Northern Ireland from the Republic still conformed to the EU standards which we have found acceptable for a quarter of a century, during which there have been no routine checks at the border?

      In other words, would the British checkers be checking that the government of the Irish Republic, still in the EU, was still enforcing EU law in its territory?

      And what about the Irish checkers; if they existed would they be checking that the UK government was properly enforcing UK law, which to start with will keep all the present EU standards, without any sudden change on March 29th?

      Even Leo Varadkar has finally come round to talking some sense about this:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/01/03/housing-policy/#comment-985684

      “Leo Varadkar explained that if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, it would still be aligned to EU customs and regulations as things currently stand.”

      “He said problems would only arise if the UK decided to make changes.

      “If the UK crashed out of the European Union at the end of March they would still be aligned on customs and regulations,” he said.

      “So the problem would only arise if they decided in some way to change their customs and regulations – and that’s where it could get difficult.

      “But that is something obviously we are going to have to talk to them about in a no-deal scenario.”

      Oddly enough that idea of talking about it is what I have been suggesting for a year now, including in letters copied to Theresa May as my constituency MP, such as this from February:

      https://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk/news/letters-to-the-editor/128146/easy-solution-to-eu-border-conundrum.html

      “Easy solution to EU border conundrum”

      I even drafted a short letter for her to send to Leo Varadkar, but to no avail …

    • NickC
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

      Peter D Gardner said: “The responsibility for this failure rests with the occupant of No 10 Downing Street”. That is so in more ways than one.

      Probably a wall is not necessary between the UK and Eire, but the border must be beefed up with number plate and general surveillance cameras on all road links. Not least to monitor those escaping from the EU.

      I think we have got to the stage where Mrs May’s continuing claims that her deal delivers Brexit, like her claims of “strong and stable” previously, simply increase the contempt in which she is held.

  14. Robert Valence
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    “Damaging to legal immigrants”? – No – Legal immigrants have legal ways to address their immigration requirements.
    Walls work; “good fences make good neighbours”. When you haven’t got such good neighbours, make the fences higher & stronger.
    As Anne Coulter is now advocating, the barrier on the USA’s southern border need not be a wall per se, rather a modern fence built as high as you like plus some technology to detect would-be infiltrators.

    • Nigel Seymour
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

      Agree – long gone are the days when most countries had a high degree of security on their borders. Since the EU opened up most of the borders affecting countries under Schengen then what did you expect to happen? Coupled with what has almost become free movement of immigrants worldwide, some without papers, then you just lose control. Germany were running short of workers and thought it a good idea to let as many as wanted too come. Farage was right all along. If the influx of illegals continues to the UK via the EU then all I ask is that the Gov return them to France or wherever. They wont ever do that though…next year when it all calms down again, Javid can go off on another jolly hoping he doesn’t get called back again.

  15. sm
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Odd coincidence you chose this topic today. Yesterday I talked to a (formerly illegal) migrant to S Africa from Mugabe’s hell-hole, Zimbabwe; along with so many others, he made the crossing at the Limpopo River boundary between the two countries. The river is patrolled on the SA side by armed forces, the water itself is patrolled by crocodiles, and fatalities are all too frequent.

    The situation in Zimbabwe is still so bad that hundreds more regularly take that risk of death by shooting or drowning. They leave behind their families, to whom they send money when they can, and hope to make enough to eventually pay for the lengthy and expensive SA residency permits.

    It is long past the time when the powerful in First World nations stopped fussing about MeToo, building fences and the use of public loos by Trans people etc etc, and started very publicly shaming those corrupt and grossly incompetent regimes, whether in the Middle East, Africa or S America, that inflict the greatest misery on their own people.

  16. Old Albion
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    Genuine migrants, use legal means to migrate. Chancers and cheats gather at borders waiting to make a clandestine entry to their chosen destination.
    Remove the attraction and you will remove the problem. All illegals should be repatriated to the last country they were in. No arguments, no delays, just taken straight back.
    It’s exactly how sensible countries deals with it.

  17. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    There are two belief systems going on here.

    In extremis, the first denies our history, national boundaries and effectively denies the right to one’s own property. It’s the mantra that the world should be open to all – basically a free for all. It’s a kind of Andy++ philosophy – what’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is mine. The old have taken the world from the young, and now they have to give it back. Any democratic vote can only be seen by them through this prism, and if it contradicts this belief system, it is ignored.

    The second belief system is backed by those too busy learning, working, building up their own asset base to worry too much about the system. They just want to get on with their lives within the rules – they respect national boundaries and property rights, defending them by whatever means necessary and come out at election time in favour of their belief system. They end up being the majority.

    In between, we have the T Mays of this world, pretending to be in the second belief camp but with a foot in the first and not really knowing themselves where they stand.

  18. Richard
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    To those claiming Trump is doing what we was elected to do, he is not. He was elected for Mexico to build the wall, not use 5 billion US to build it.

    • matthu
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

      He implied that Mexico would (ultimately) pay for the wall, not that they would build it.

      Not sure that I would trust the very people you are trying to keep out to build a solid wall.

  19. agrictola
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Providing conventional routes remain open for genuine asylum seekers and any other categories, a wall is no problem. It just makes it harder for the criminal gangs involved to take advantage of the vulnerable.
    For the Democratic Party the wall is a means to an end, getting rid of Trump. These so called Democrats cannot get their heads round the fact that they failed to appeal to the impoverished vote which they have always considered their own. This impoverished vote sussed that these Democrats were no different from the Republicans. They were all part of the Washington
    establishment cabal who for years have claimed the divine right to rule. They bitterly resent Trump’s arrival on the scene to shatter their illusion.
    There have been parallels in the UK and across the EU. Establishment thinkers beware.

    • Original Richard
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

      “It just makes it harder for the criminal gangs involved to take advantage of the vulnerable.”

      The “criminal gangs” are NOT taking advantage of the “vulnerable as they are being PAID large sums on money by these “migrants” to get them into the UK illegally.

      These “migrants” are as complicit as the criminal gangs in this illegal enterprise and should be treated accordingly by being sent back from whence they came.

  20. Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood! I have at last worked out the best solution for the Backstop!!!!
    A high wall! That would keep the two Irish sides apart, prevent the return of the troubles and fix Brexit once and for all!

    • Edward2
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

      But Mike, both our PM and the Irish PM have said they don’t want a border.

      • Original Richard
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

        And Mr. Juncker himself.

        • Original Richard
          Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

          And Mr. Varadkar and Mr. Juncker are on record for saying that they would not institute a hard border even in the event of “no deal”.

  21. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    This is all anti-Trump hysteria by the Democrats, aided and abetted by their friends in the media in the USA and the UK. Almost everything he says or does is opposed and attacked, not on merit but because they can’t stand the thought that he won the election. In this respect Trump and Brexit receive the same treatment by our media (particularly broadcasters who breach the statutory broadcasting code of impartiality regularly with impunity and agree from censure by their regulator Ofcom).

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

      Sorry, last sentence should read “free from censure…”.

  22. A.Sedgwick
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    President Trump is in the best maverick tradition of the USA, without it the country would not exist. Reality is a stranger to idealism, utopia is a fantasy. The world is vastly overpopulated and the internet has shown the vast differences in lifestyle. The answers lie within most countries’ borders, corruption and subjugation is endemic in many countries that have wealth but it is denied to the majority for the benefit of the tiny minority.

    Open borders for people will reduce us all to the lowest common denominator. The current Brexit debacle illustrates how the EU is a classic example of how not to help poorer nations by having trading borders.

    • Mark B
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

      Open borders for people will reduce us all to the lowest common denominator.

      Which is the plan. When you have nothing, or something very next to nothing, you rely on the State to help you. And when you rely on the State they effectively own you.

  23. Arthur Wrightiss
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    What is this smoke and mirrors nonsense about Trump building a wall/ fence/ barrier ..call it what you will.
    The Secure Fence Act of 2006 was passed by George W Bush and by 2011 there was 649 miles of wall/ fence constructed. It ranges from 18 to 26 feet in height, and in places there is secondary or even tertiary fencing as well.
    Why are those making a big deal out of Trumps “ wall “ oblivious to the 649 miles already there ? Are they liars, are they devious, are they uninformed empty headed snowflakes, what are they ?
    We have the English Channel as a barrier, not that you would know it as it seems any illegal can come in by being “ rescued “ rather than being arrested and immediately deported.

    • agrictola
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

      To answer your question, they are politicians for whom the truth is a passing condition to be used with caution.

  24. Alan Jutson
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    There are Walls/Barriers/Fences around the White House, the Vatican, and Parliament, are any of those politicians who are against walls, wanting those removed ?

    A very old saying, good strong fences make for good neighbours.

    Why have a door to your house with a lock on it, if it is not to vet those who knock on it.?

    I thought there were proper legal channels for all genuine refugees to apply for asylum.

    Of course barriers are essential if you want to try to protect anything which is inside.

  25. Kenneth
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    For a while now there has been a conflict between the “borderless world” philosophy espoused by many on the Left and the more mainstream traditional view of the nation state with its borders.

    The problem with the borderless world brigade is that humans are tribal, sociable animals who naturally want to “belong”.

    Without “them” there can be no “us”.

    In any case, a “world government” – say, run by the UN – or at least a continental government – say, run by the eu – requires the virtual abolition of any meaningful democracy.

    By and large it seems that the borderless world is promoted by an elected minority or the unelected who have found refuge in various institutions, charities, quangos, the media, civil service, unions etc.

    The elected majority (or “populists” as they are sometimes referred to) tend to favour more traditional borders and the nation state. They won a famous victory with the eu referendum, but despite this, an alliance of the elected minority and the unelected is still attempting to thwart them.

  26. Adam
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    People are not united as a nation if others from any part of the world are allowed to enter their territory illegally.

    Prior to election, Trump made the case for building a wall, including a fence or other defensive barrier as appropriate to the topography of the border. It was a key pledge & voters elected him to the highest office to enable his power to act & protect them.

    • TRP
      Posted January 7, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

      He also said “and Mexico will pay for it”.
      How comes that for the first two years of his tenure when he was unencumbered by Democrats in any of the chambers, Trump did nothing related to the wall, and now that he’s got a Democrat House of Representatives he gets back to it. The “art of the deal” looks rather flimsy.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 7, 2019 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

        Early days.
        USA will pay and build the wall.
        Mexico will end up paying.

        • TRP
          Posted January 7, 2019 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

          Is that a prediction or a forecast?

          • Edward2
            Posted January 7, 2019 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

            Which ever you prefer.

          • hefner
            Posted January 8, 2019 at 11:02 am | Permalink

            In that case, I would say prediction because Edward2 does not have any tangible element (based for example on past events) to support his assertion.

          • Edward2
            Posted January 8, 2019 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

            Do you reckon Hefner?
            Wait and see.
            President Trump has done many things he promised to do already.
            Unlike Obama who disappeared onto the golf course in his last term as President.

  27. Denis Cooper
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    The walls that the Romans had built to secure occupied Britannia from the so-called barbarians in the north are more famous, at least for the British, but at 73 modern miles for Hadrian’s Wall and much less for the Antonine Wall they were short compared to the Roman’s Rhineland fortifications:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_Germanicus

    “The Limes Germanicus was divided into … The total length was 568 km (353 mi). It included at least 60 forts and 900 watchtowers … ”

    It is claimed in this fascinating book:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shortest-History-Germany-James-Hawes/dp/1910400416

    that the cultural, religious, political and economic effects of the first century Roman limes can still be clearly detected in modern Germany.

    • Mitchel
      Posted January 7, 2019 at 10:59 am | Permalink

      If you look up the “Pax Nicephori” of 803AD-a treaty signed between Charlemagne and the Byzantine Emperor,Nikephoros I,by which they delineated the boundary between their respective empires you can also see the origins of the Iron Curtain(“from Stettin to Trieste”-the 803 line was near Trieste) and the enduring division between East and West.

      People who say that the earlier division of the Roman Empire was the start are wrong because the division was purely administrative-the Empire remained one and as the West fell all legal authority was vested solely in the Emperor in the East as agreed by the Senate of Rome and the barbarian ruler of Italy who “retired” the last western emperor.

  28. Whaddyasay
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    You said it “they want to damage Mr Trump as much as possible”, but not so , Mr Trump is his own worst enemy, he doesn’t need enemies from outside, he’s doing it all by himself. And talking about borders aren’t we lucky we have the natural borders of the Meditterean Sea and then the English Channel preventing the whole country being swamped by sub-saharan and West African Africans. On the other hand the native peoples of Mexico Texas California were there for probably thoisands of years before the White Man came so we could argue they have a right to migrate up and down as they wish..it’s not all black and white..and in the end we know that all borders fail..it only takes time.

  29. Whaddyasay
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    All man made borders fail, it only takes time

    • NickC
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

      Whaddyasay, My car failed after 16 years. Do you suppose that stopped me getting another one?

    • Anonymous
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

      And governments go with them.

  30. Mr Ison
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    I liked the idea of the trans American monorail stretching from sea to shining sea and found it dissapointing that the USA couldn’t even muster a picket fence let alone a children of Irgun inspired impediment.

    We in GB are lucky enough geographically to have an ever widening moat and despite the uneconomic hiatus of the last 40 years it still informs us as to who we are.

  31. Original Richard
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    Mrs. Merkel said at the Konrad Adenauer Foundation in Berlin 21/11/2018 :

    “Sovereign nation states must not listen to the will of their citizens when it comes to questions of immigration, borders, or even sovereignty.”

    This is why we need a completely clean break from the EU, and certainly not Mrs May’s/the EU’s “deal”, particularly as Mrs. Merkel is highly likely to be taking up a senior position in the EU now that she is rapidly satisfying the necessary criteria of being a rejected politician in her own country.

    • NickC
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

      Original Richard, The impressionable Mrs Merkel was brought up in the era of the Berlin Wall. The difference was the Berlin Wall was to keep the East Germans (GDR citizens) from escaping their communist paradise to West Berlin. The equivalent would be Mexico building a wall to prevent Mexicans from escaping to the USA.

      We have to cope with migrants trying to escape the “paradise” EU. I wonder why? Indeed many more EU subjects escape to the UK than the other way round. Still, I’m hoping that Adonis, Grayling, Blair, Soubry, Hammond, May, etc, will even the numbers up a bit.

    • margaret howard
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

      Original Richard

      “Mrs. Merkel is highly likely to be taking up a senior position in the EU now that she is rapidly satisfying the necessary criteria of being a rejected politician in her own country”

      In October 2018, Merkel announced that she would not seek reelection as leader of CDU but intends to remain as chancellor until 2021, when the next German federal election, is to be held. As she has held office since 2005 it means that she is the longest serving head of state of any nation today. She stated that she does not plan to seek any political office after this

      She also topped Forbes magazine’s list of “The World’s 100 Most Powerful Women” in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018.

      To call her a ‘rejected politician in her own country’ is the usual hyperbole that lays most Brexiteer pronouncements open to so much ridicule.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 8, 2019 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

        Well she leads a minority government with way less than a 50% satisfaction rating by her voters.
        So I would say she is at the end of her reign.
        Off to the EU she will go.
        That’s where all the old pale stale politicians go when their national voters reject them.
        She will be one of the many Presidents or be Head of the Council or Commission
        Never needs to be elected again by the people of Europe

  32. Norman
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Walls are necessary in a world of conflict, to enable governments to protect their citizens. In this part of Britain, Offa, King of Mercia is famous for his 283 Km-long dyke (which originally included a wooden stockade) to keep out the marauding Welsh of those days. There were also many castles along the border, which local villagers could run to in the event of trouble, I guess much like the forts of American frontier days.
    During Foot and Mouth Disease, a 6 km fence was erected to protect a vulnerable sheep population on a large hill-common – it was expensive and controversial, but in the light of subsequent experience elsewhere, worked well. Strange to say, it’s always the same ‘liberal’ types who object to such projects, and become ‘the enemy within’ – wolves in sheep’s clothing! Trump is right about this in my view, and deserves support for the wall.

    • margaret howard
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

      Citing Offa’s dyke, a 1200 year old ditch and a sheep fence as examples of successful walls to keep people out smacks of desperation.

      Walled towns dotted the British Isles in the Middle Ages. Some dated back to Roman days. But by the 18th century they were regarded as unnecessary and outdated.

      Do we really want to turn the clock back?

      • Adam
        Posted January 7, 2019 at 8:52 am | Permalink

        Walls separate & protect defined boundaries. Most homes have them.

      • NickC
        Posted January 7, 2019 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

        Margaret Howard, What has turning clocks back got to do with it? It does not matter whether an idea is 3000 years old or born yesterday, if it’s economic, sensible and works, it should be considered.

  33. nothappy
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Something seriously wrong with Mr Trump’s mental state. The only thing we can do now is to try to hang on until he finishes out his time. In short- he’s a disaster, not only for the US but for the world

    • Anonymous
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

      Really ?

      Like – did he invade and destabilise the middle east as Bush, Blair, Cameron, Obama did ???

      You lot told us he would have taken us into nuclear war by the first Christmas.

      • Anonymous
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

        He’s not destabilised one regime, even.

  34. William Long
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    A proverb that I have always found to be very accurate goes: ‘Good fences make good neighbours’, and I think that applies equally to national frontiers as it does to private people.
    In voting for Mr Trump, Americans were voting for the fence, and Mr Trump should be respected for trying to impliment a campaign promise.

  35. Everhopeful
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    I suppose that walls and fences are a bit upsetting for rich globalists who want to destroy our nations. These people play shamelessly on our inherent Christian values to push the agenda of “No walls” etc but their only concern is more cold,hard cash ( theirs!).

    However, anyone can cherry pick from the scriptures should they wish so to do.
    Acts 17:26 “From one man He made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.”

    Wonder if those who support no borders would actually support the logical conclusion which would be full on communism. ( People must share all they possess, give up everything they own …except of course those in charge..no equality nonsense for thrm!)

    • Everhopeful
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:59 am | Permalink

      *them

  36. Christine
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    I’m sure the people of the USA can see that the actions of the Democrats are politically motivated just like project fear is here in the UK. If it’s just about money then a crowd funding page should be set up to give him the $5.6bn he’s asking for. Spread between the 327 million US population this is peanuts. It’s time for the little people who love their country to bypass these left wing liberals who through their misguided beliefs will destroy their own future.

  37. nhsgp
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    More interesting is the shut down. The previous ‘record’ was 21 days.

    Trump is going to sit there. Those who won’t be paid are democrat voters, and the public isn’t going to notice much of the shutdown anyway.

    A month without pay, rent due, mortgages due, its going to get harder and harder for the democrats to say no.

    • matthu
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

      I wonder to what extent liberal civil servants in this country would be those most affected if Remainers go ahead with their plan to paralyse Westminster?

  38. bigneil
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Regarding those 40 who “arrived” here on Christmas day. Could you please ask the immigration minister to provide some figures for what they have cost us ( not what they are handed to spend ) in the 2 weeks they have been here. Include the Police, Paramedics and Ambulance crews. Include the Immigration people dealing with them, their housing and their translator costs. And as the expensive flood of people continues, the mainly young men who have arrived will probably have a wife or three and many offspring back home, all waiting to come to the Land of Endless Money, under the Right to ( a FREE ) Family Life in the UK Act. As more arrive, knowing that once here they will do ANYTHING to ensure they stay and the rest of the family come too, our homeless sleep rough, while the, clearly prioritised non contributing illegals , know they’ll be treated better for having committed a crime. T’is the Season of Goodwill to all men, especially those who arrive in rubber dinghies.

  39. Iain Moore
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Yes borders are important, you can’t have a country if you don’t have borders. The State’s ability to raise taxes for the common good would quickly unravel if there were no restrictions as to who could wander in. But borders are not just the boundary of a country , it is also about managing the visitors who have entered the country, and made sure they have left at the appropriate time, something the British establishment couldn’t care less about, their complacency is criminal. If credit card companies can manage billions of transactions a day across hundreds of millions of terminals, you would have thought the British state could track 40 odd million people who visit the UK through a couple of dozen ports , but it seems beyond them.

  40. gregory martin
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    My understanding is that although they arrive from Mexico, the least desirable immigrants are from the more southerly Central America countries. A ‘diplomatic’ solution for the USA might be to secure the southern border of Mexico , in exchange for agreed exchanges of goods and population with bona-fide Mexican identity . This would represent a much shorter land frontier, therefore cheaper and affordable.

  41. formula57
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    It is difficult to understand how walls and fences hinder migrants whose arrival in host countries is sought by or welcomed by those countries.

  42. agrictola
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    May on Marr not convincing. The woman cannot see beyond her deal which by any judgement has many deficiencies. Her claim that the WA delivers on the referendum is an outright lie. I can only see turmoil ahead.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

      Agricola

      Yes, I noticed she was more hesitant when repeating her lies. When asked about no deal being better than a bad deal she said the deal on the table was good (does she really believe that?) and that nobody had come up with an alternative plan. Has she not read anything her Brexiteers have said? John, you have repeatedly said you and others have published an alternative. Why is she not considering it?

  43. Caterpillar
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Yes the USA should build a wall/fence, the cost-benefit of wall vs. fence probably varies along its construction. It was a Trump election policy. A future Democrat presidential candidate would be free to campaign under a policy of permanently opening parts of the wall to ease the flow of illegal immigrants. As well as adding to physical security it sends a clear message that the USA aims to be a safe, secure place for its population, workers and businesses. This is a good message, safety and securitynshould not be seen as bad.

  44. George Brooks
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    As stated time and time again legal immigrants have legal routes into another country that they wish to enter. When there is miles of open country along a border and a host of would-be illegal immigrants, criminals, terrorists and spongers then there has to be a physical barrier to prevent illegal entry. Whether it is made of steel, bricks or modern technology there has to be a barrier with defined entry points through which applicants are processed.

    The ‘wall’ is the first opportunity the Democrats have had to get rid of Trump since regaining control in the House. They won’t succeed and Trump knows it and the US government will remain partly shut for some while to come.

    We are being fed the wrong information by the UK media as Trump has become hugely popular. When he was elected the vast majority of staunch Republicans were dismayed and very critical. As he works his way through his manifesto pledges under the banner ”America First” opinion has swung 180 degrees especially in his party

    Both Trump and Brexit are under attack from the ‘swamps’ in Washington and Whitehall and democracy in both countries is under a very serious threat which has to be defeated

  45. BOF
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    Border walls are an unfortunate necessity to keep control of criminals and illegal migration, also the drug trade. There are perfectly good legal migration routes.

    We have the English channel, a natural barrier which needs to be monitored. Blair dismantled border control which led to mass immigration to the UK on a scale never seen before. May, as Home Secretary, stopped the border control planes which would have prevented many of the current crossings. This on top of many statements and manifestos promising to reduce migration to tens of thousands have come to nothing and mass migration has continued under the Conservative Government.

    Dems in the US are vehemently anti Trump but like the majority of our politicians pay only lip service to the desire of people not to be swamped with immigrants overwhelming their public services, causing ever increasing congestion, having their country built over in a vain attempt to keep up with housing and steadily eroding their culture.

    The EU (and the media) never mention the barrier erected by Turkey on the Kurdish border. I wonder how much of UK tax payers money went into funding that?

  46. Mark
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    With Luís Obrador having become President of Mexico, and his sympathies with President Maduro of Venezuela (whom he invited to his inauguration), the threat that Mexico becomes another Venezuela looms. That Obrador has already slashed the salaries of government employees (supposedly in a bid to reduce corruption, when the effect will be to make them dependent on bribes for an income) does not help. The threat that large numbers of Mexicans will seek to flee to the US will make the wall seem like a good idea soon enough. Unfortunately, Mexican presidential elections are only every 7 years, so the Mexicans are stuck with him.

  47. Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    The United States is already a melting pot of peoples, and whether a Mexican border will be in place for a while longer is neither here nor there. The Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain had a short enough lifespan and I don’t think many today are paying much attention to Hadrians wall. I often think about people who go around comparing borders are a bit like our domestic dogs going around looking for lamp posts to do their business against- a bit like the jargon coming from some quarters in this country, continually talking about taking back control. So looking out the window there are some who see borders everywhere- there are others looking out the same window and will never see borders, not even if they are ten feet high.

    • margaret howard
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

      Edward2

      “Have you really met a UKIP voter?
      I doubt it in your upper middle class bubble”

      No, thank goodness. We are lucky enough to live in a respectable neighbourhood that can keep the riff ruff out.

      • Anonymous
        Posted January 7, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

        Precisely the attitude that has switched me from being a life long cap-doffing working class Tory to a socialist.

        I want your wealth redistributed.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted January 7, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

        Margaret, I suppose you’re against ‘white van man’ too. Typical snob and I’m alright Jack attitude. Just like Andy.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 7, 2019 at 10:35 am | Permalink

        That’s where all you liberal green leftys live.
        Away from all the difficulties that ordinary citizens have to deal with.
        Thinking you know what is best for us all.
        Still shocked by the result of the referendum.

  48. Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    corr’n- not even if the border was ten feet high

  49. Andy
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    I should add – I know many migrants to this country.

    I can not think of one who does not contribute hugely.

    In contrast, I have never met a UKIP voter who adds anything positive to our country.

    • Edward2
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

      Have you really met a UKIP voter?
      I doubt it in your upper middle class bubble.

    • Steve
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      “I can not think of one [migrant] who does not contribute hugely.”

      Then you don’t get out much, obviously. Are you afraid of those nasty old pensioners ?

      As for migrants not contributing, there’s plenty, and they’re usually from non EU countries.

      Fortunately one positive aspect of immigration comes from eastern Europe, I know of lots of them who work damn hard and pay their dues.

      • Andy
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

        So you like migrants who come from the EU but not the ones from beyond the EU? How do you feel about the governments immigration policy which will see far fewer of the migrants you like, and more of the ones you don’t.

        Incidentally we had some Lithuanians do a building project on our house. The work ethic was brilliant. Completely the opposite of most English tradesmen I’ve dealt with.

        • Edward2
          Posted January 7, 2019 at 10:37 am | Permalink

          How did you know they were English?
          Did you see their passports?

        • Stred
          Posted January 7, 2019 at 10:59 am | Permalink

          This is a libel on English tradesmen. I have employed continental and British tradesmen on a number of projects. Both varied from excellent to appalling. It is impossible to find out which ones are competent from references on the internet.

    • Steve
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      “In contrast, I have never met a UKIP voter who adds anything positive to our country.”

      In contrast, I don’t know of any UKIP voter who has anything positive to say about UKIP.

      You don’t seem to be well informed.

      • Al
        Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

        This is a case where Andy and everyone replying can both be telling the truth as they know it. If Andy has never met a UKIP voter at all, then it is quite possible he has never met a UKIP voter who contributes positively. At least, he has not met one knowingly: with his views, if you were a UKIP voter who knew him, would you tell him you voted UKIP?

        Also while he may know many migrants to the country and those he knows contribute hugely, that simply means he is not in a role or living in a location where he has contact with those migrants who do not.

        • TRP
          Posted January 7, 2019 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

          Very sensible post.

          • Edward2
            Posted January 7, 2019 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

            Do you think TRP?
            I think it is a classic one originally from andy illustrating his simple prejudices.

    • Anonymous
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

      You moved your family from London to Beaconsfield… for a better garden.

      (I know why I moved my lads from London and I’m bloody glad I did !)

  50. Steve
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    Ah it’s the new tactic of the left, if they loose a democratic vote they resort to guerrilla style tactics, libel, whinge & moan, any kind of ‘ist’ ‘ism’ & ‘phobe’ false accusation you can think of.

    Anything but just shutting up and accepting they lost. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming like a spoilt child not getting it’s own way.

    It’s not fair, you see.

    We have the same here too, they’re called remoaners.

  51. Wessexboy
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Secure boundaries are necessary. When I moved house I made my new premises secure. I have no problem inviting in anybody I see fit to enter. Same should go for any sensible autonomous entity, person or country, whatever.

  52. Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    For those unlucky enough not to live on an island with a natural border, walls and fences are imperative. It is the first duty of everynGovernment to protect the safety and security of its own citizens. Their human rights come first. Trump is on course to be the best President ever – better than Abe. 5 million new jobs in 2 years – wait until the economy gets some impetus behind it.

  53. Denis Cooper
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Off-topic:

    This morning I watched Chuka Umunna being interviewed by Sophy Ridge on Sky, and virtually everything he said was a lie. Then I watched Theresa May being interviewed by Andrew Marr on the BBC and she was even worse. They and others of their kind have no respect either for the truth, or for the voters who put them into Parliament.

    • Andy
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

      I for one am okay with a no deal Brexit – providing we get guarantees from the Tory Brexiteers.

      We should give Mr Redwood and his friends the chance to prove themselves right.

      We pre-agree with them targets for what a successsful Brexit looks like and if they meet their targets within a pre determined time limit it is happy days for all of us.

      However, if they fail they have their assets removed and are sent to prison for a decade.

      I think when they actually have a significant personal stake at risk you may find them being a little less bullish.

      But if they genuinely believe we have nothing to fear from no deal as a country then they have nothing to fear from demonstrating their confidence.

      Incidentally one Tory leaver told the Huffington Post that because March is growing season we will be fine for food post Brexit. We will eat – he said. Before adding that we probably won’t get bananas or tomatoes for a while.

      Seriously.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 8, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

        Presumably remainers also have to forecast the future in the EU and if they are wrong the same thing happens.
        One of your more ridiculous posts andy.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

      Oh look, it seems they also lied about how many people went on their march:

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/05/peoples-vote-march-attended-third-number-organisers-claimed/

      “People’s Vote march was attended by a third of number that organisers claimed, official estimate says”

      Out by a factor of three? Well, that’s quite a modest exaggeration compared to the eurofederalists’ habitual vast exaggerations about the economic impact of the EU and its Single Market; and at least we know that they have the sign right in this case, because we know that the number of people on the march was definitely a positive number, while on the other hand there are good reasons for believing that for the UK the net economic effect of EU membership has been negative.

  54. APL
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    “So I am asking readers today do you think walls and fences are necessary to control crime across frontiers, or are they damaging to legitimate migrants? ”

    I note you don’t talk about ‘asylum seekers’, something you in the political class have not afforded little girls in Rotherham, Oxford, Manchester or Bristol. God knows what’s going on the London!!

    ‘legitimate migrants’, will usually come with a job opportunity awaiting them. We won’t find them floating in a stolen rubber dinghy in the middle of the English Channel.

    Neither should the Royal Navy be assisting the ‘people smugglers’ by picking up their victims and bringing them to the UK. The British navy is supposedly there to protect the UK not assist with the invasion.

    And finally, why do Prominent Democrats, for example, Schumer, or Pelosi oppose a border wall with Mexico, but approve of the Israeli border wall – to the extent that a good proportion of the Israeli border wall was paid for with US subsidy.

    It’s not a coincidence that they expect the ‘migrants’ to vote Democrat. Talk about gerrymandering.

  55. TL
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    Walls must work because why else would the rich and famous have them, often living in gated communities with their very own border guards.

    The logical conclusion of open borders is that private and public security is immoral.

  56. davies
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    You forgot to mention the long EU funded wall between Turkey and Syria.

    In general I think that if there is a problem and the evidence shows that a wall is needed then you build a wall. The problem with President Trump is in his style of rheteoric on this issue, as you say: Bill Clinton’s administration put something in place without the fanfare but Trump has made it a central policy with has fuelled division on both sides of the argument.

    It’s also important not to forget that many of the issues in Europe with unwanted migration are due to actions taken in the Middle East and North Africa by Western Governments which culminated in the issues leading to migrant routes in the first place along with certain EU politicians saying stupid things in the media.

  57. Newmania
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Surely the illegal immigrants can be trusted turn themselves in at some convenient check point away form the border , or complete an electronic tagging system of some kind ?Snigger ..
    Borders have to be secure, no probs . Redders mentions Bill Clinton( a famous Democrat …!!! ) he was pretty tough on illegal migration generally but infrastructure is not the point of Trumps wall . It is a symbol in his campaign within the context of the intemperate anti immigrant language he used .It is to that and its ghastly UK sympathisers, I object.

    • zorro
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

      “Surely the illegal immigrants can be trusted turn themselves in at some convenient check point away form the border , or complete an electronic tagging system of some kind ?Snigger ..”

      Well, the EU seems to think so as that is what happens at the moment (with regards to trade) and if you look at what they have written down. Wow! You are contradicting your beloved EU, report to JCJ and GV for your punishment which I am sure you would enjoy!

      zorro

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

      No surprise there then Newmania. You object to anything sensible.

    • NickC
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

      Newmania, Your sniggering is based on ignorance and hostility, rather than sense and information. Here is an extract from the HMRC website about customs:

      Imports from outside the EU are treated differently. You:
      must make an import declaration to customs
      generally have to pay import duty and import VAT (plus VAT on import duty)

      Authorised Economic Operator (AEO)
      If you’re already involved in international trade and have an Economic Operator Registration and Identification Number (EORI), you can register with … HMRC as an Authorised Economic Operator (AEO)
      .”

      Legal goods from legal, reputable businesses can be dealt with remotely from the borders. Illegal migrants are by definition not legal, so must be dealt with at borders if at all possible.

    • Anonymous
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

      We rejected the BNP/NF – unlike Europeans and their political equivalents who have a very real shot at power.

      Commendable of us, nay ?

  58. Posted January 6, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Dear readers
    There are many types of walls. A trip to the National theatre to see Hadestown can get the juices flowing on this very subject. Walls are a metaphor for our time. Other topics like humanity, home, belonging and identity are also wrapped up within the debate. It’s a complex issue. Walls are not root causes they are proposed solutions to much deeper issues. I pray that those in power get themselves educated and stop pandering to those who might be lining their pocket or playing to their ego. Civilisation and humanity is at stake here, and that is a very serious matter. Enjoy Hadestown if you get to see it. Fabulous play, production and cast, C

    • NickC
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

      Cath, It looks dire: a modern globalist-left fantasy, leeching on a classical myth, with echoes of Soviet Socialist product-envy. Hilary would be cheering from the stalls.

  59. Kevin Lohse
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Walls are all very well, but to be effective need to be covered by observation with intercept teams at instant readiness to apprehend invaders. A few years ago, I went on holiday to a dude ranch on the Arizona/Mexican border. That part of the border runs though ground which is akin to a lunar landscape, with precipitous mountains and steep canyons covered in thick cactus and scrubby trees along the border. It is one of the last refuges for cougars in the US. Even with the latest technology, the area would swallow regiments of guards to be an effective barrier. The problem is further complicated by the fact that the border area is bound by Native American reservations. People smuggling is a major source of income in these reservations, which are semi-autonomous in US law. Building the Wall is a great sound bite, but the technical and political problems are somewhat greater than often stated.

  60. Helen Smith
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Hi Sir John, walls are not there to stop legitimate asylum seekers or migrants, they are to stop people who think they have the right to walk into any country they choose and receive benefits courtesy of that countries workers and tax payers.

    Furthermore I think the UK should patrol the channel, scoop up the migrants who have chosen not to claim asylum in any of the safe countries they have traveled through, finger print them, explain that they will never be allowed into the UK and return them to France.

    We should only accept asylum seekers who show us respect by going the legal route. By definition they are law abiding and are far more likely to be honest and an asset to us.

    • acorn
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

      “… walk into any country they choose and receive benefits courtesy of that countries workers and tax payers.”

      There are some dodgy stats that say about 65,000 Brits are claiming benefits in the other EU 27 countries, about the same as EU27 citizens claiming in the UK. Spain gets the largest hit with more than its fair share of geriactic Brit pensioners.

      Do you think they all might come back to the UK to continue claiming benefits? Post-Brexit, how much will a pension paid in Sterling buy in the Eurozone Spain?

  61. Treacle
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Left-wingers these days regard any attempt to control any border as racist. This is a new development: they didn’t think like that in President Clinton’s time. But now they do, and it explains the ferocity of their opposition to President Trump. That opposition has been voiced in this country by Sadiq Khan and John Bercow. It is monstrously unfair to President Trump, who is not a racist.

    • Alexis
      Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

      I think someone is paying them, or encouraging them to say that – don’t you? As indicated by the change in attitude you mention.

      To call a border ‘racist’ is sheer gibberish. But this is all it takes to engage the attention of some shallow minded people of the left, who can be whipped up to say almost anything.

      Racist is a favourite trigger word: so that has done the job.

      Who really wants open borders though? What are their motives?

  62. ian
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    What has been seen by the people over the last 3 years is that its the people that people vote for is what matters and not the party you vote for, whether the people are taking notice is another thing, after all, it is the people parliament and they have always chosen who sits in it by way of voting, voters have always been blinded by the smoke and mirrors of politician and what they are really about, did they really pledge Allegiance to the people parliament and it people or to other powers miles away to the south and to the west.

  63. Den
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    I do not have a problem with border defences. Be they razor wire or concrete walls or a Battalion of soldiers. Every Nation MUST have the right to defend itself from both the undesirables and the illegals. In fact anyone, who is not a citizen. It is down to the National Government and no one else to decide how they will deal with those wishing to enter their country. Why should that be a problem to some?
    Mr Trump proposed his Wall during his election campaign. Indeed it was a reason the people elected him because they were alarmed at the huge numbers of immigrants who were entering their country with no checks on their credibility nor their viability.
    The actions of the Democrats are despicable in that they are trying to bring down the “People’s President” just because he beat their favourite to the White house. They too do not respect democracy.
    The Americans are fortunate to have such a Leader of the people again, for the last was Ronnie Reagan. A pity then that a suitable replacement for his co-partner on the World Stage , our own Mrs Thatcher, has not been found since she was ejected by the wretched Europhiles in her own party.
    And they are still at it, trying to build a wall to block our democracy and our democratic decision to migrate from the borderless realms of Brussels cabal. I trust April 1st this year prove to be their particular day and not in name only.

  64. Mr Ison
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    The Apache, the peoples, did the job of keeping the Mexicans where they belong and did so without the trappings of the modern day state of engineering.

    Aye,bows and arrows!

  65. margaret
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Good fences make good neighbours so they say. It depends on who and what you are trying to keep out. I watched an interesting documentary on 4 last evening where Israel’s and Jerusalem’s religious boundaries were discussed.It was notable that a comment about heritage and who land belongs to was centred upon more fruitful areas. Th comment was that there were miles and miles of desert which all the Jewish people in the world could populate and the population would only be as dense as that of Belgium. So what do people want when they wander through to other Countries? A land where they don’t have to build and make their own .A land where they can escape torture and death? If this is so why do they make a bee line to some countries and not others?

  66. Iain Gill
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Yep you need walls, I agree with trump’s policy, indeed so do all my American friends.

    Liberal elite media are completely wrong.

  67. ferdinand
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think walls are the answer as determined people will find a way around eg. Hitler and the Maginot line.

  68. christopher carr
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    “Do you think walls and fences are necessary to control crime across frontiers, or are they damaging to legitimate migrants?”
    Yes, and yes.
    This will need to be addressed.

  69. Posted January 6, 2019 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Yes what ever it takes,
    I am sick to death with these bleeding heart. Liberal do Goders

    Just what is There problem with Democricy, Trumps Wall was voted for in his Manifesto, he Won , and what a breath of fresh air he is, look what he is doing , he is give the people the things he said he would do in his manifesto.

    Quite different to what this bunch of dissgracefull people running our Country

  70. Sakara Gold
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    I think there is a distinction between border walls built in antiquity, to keep marauding barbarians out (no longer effective thanks to the military’s ability to accurately hurl large amounts of ordnance over them) and fences built to keep two tribes – who hate each other – apart.

    Humans are highly territorial bipedal primates genetically predisposed to accept “alpha males” as leaders – Trump is a classic example. There are roughly 8.5 billion people on this little planet who are predisposed to warfare, inevitably there will be conflict over land, water and resources. No wonder walls are built!

    I saw numerous “peace fences” recently on a visit to Belfast – they are about 100 feet high and keep republican minorities apart from loyalist areas, and vice versa. Apparently there are similar walls on the West Bank of the Jordan to keep Palestinians away from Israeli settlements and in numerous other countries, as you describe.

    Personally I have no opinion on Trump’s wall; I recall during his election campaign his view was that the Mexican government would pay for it, they have refused. If the USA could control its insatiable demand for cocaine and other drugs maybe the wall would not be such an issue in the first place.

  71. Dominic
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Democracy is under attack both here in the UK and in the USA by a liberal left clique determined to infect the state and its every nook and cranny with their own. The aim? To take ownership of all the levers of power and to insure against democratic intervention

    Democracy must prevail against those who yearn to undermine it and those who undermine it have already made huge gains by infecting our public institutions with their kind

    Most appreciate the nature of Gramsci entryism. We’ve seen it in the Labour party and now within the Tories and now it’s spread wide across the State. Power monopolised to dilute the leverage of democratic interference

    Popular democracy isn’t part of the political system but it stands apart from the political system and is external to it. It is the common man’s insurance policy against people like Blair, Clinton, Obama, Merkel, Mandelson, Ma, Corbyn etc and all their ilk

    Thank god we still have the likes of Sir John Redwood, Jacob RM, Phil Davies, the DUP and Kate Hoey to keep the flame of democracy alive. Of course they won’t always be here to offer democracy a lifeline and when their decency and morality depart then I can see an inflection moment in both this country and the US.

    Someone please stop these people from destroying both our nation and our democracy

  72. margaret howard
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    How ironic that this nation of immigrants should now want to build a wall to keep others out! They have forgotten that it’s immigrants that made the USA.

    • Edward2
      Posted January 7, 2019 at 11:01 am | Permalink

      Legal immigrants are welcome in America.
      1.18 million in 2016 alone.
      47 million illegal immigrants by 2015 nearly 15% of the total population.

      • Edward2
        Posted January 7, 2019 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

        should say 47 millon LEGAL emigrants

  73. ChrisS
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Any democratic country wishing to exclude economic migrants has to ensure that said migrants never actually land on their shore.

    Once they are able to get onto our soil a whole plethora of Liberal Luvvies will descend on the migrants determined to represent them legally in an attempt to get them residency rights.

    Stupidly, countries like ours even grant them legal aid which is an expensive scam all of its own which mainly benefits dodgy solicitors as we have seen in recent years.

    Australia came up with an excellent scheme that really worked. Every potential refugee was directed to Papua New Guinea for assessment. This stopped the flow almost overnight as more than 90% were in effect economic migrants and could get no further. They simply gave up trying.

    If France had the sense to agree to take back every illegal found on a boat, train or ferry on route to the UK, the flow would stop just as quickly and, even better for France, there would be no camps at Calais or anywhere else as economic migrants would simply not bother to enter France at all.

    Of course we would never hear the end of it from Corbyn and Clegg’s Islington champagne Socialists and Polly Toynbee and Sharmishta Chakrabarti would be in full flood.

    No matter. Economic migrants should have no rights of entry whatsoever and every one that gets into a Western Country deprives a genuine refugee of a place of safety. In addition, of course, their home country is deprived of their labour.

  74. Chris
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Open borders are essential to the Deep State for its funding as there are billions of dollars involved in the “trade” which open borders allow:
    drugs, human trafficking including of children, sex trafficking including of children, arms, illegal aliens, and terrorists e.g. MS13 gang members.

    The present stance of the Democrats including Clinton and Obama contradicts their earlier policies/statements which are well documented and on videoclips. Funding was even provided by Clinton when in office for the border wall. President Trump has just tweeted these statements by Obama and Clinton:
    “We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked…” Barrack Obama, 2005.

    “I voted, when I was a Senator, to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in…” Hillary Clinton, 2015.

    President Trump has done more than any other President to fight the war on drugs and human/sex trafficking, and he is having significant success, bringing many perpetrators to justice. Just because our media and the US media does not report these successes does not mean that they are not happening. An effective border wall and force are essential to help stop this trade

  75. nothappy
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    Mrs May’s job? If you were offered it? Would you accept? don’t think so..not in a million years

  76. rose
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    http://www.iamawake.co/the-eu-funded-wall-that-nobody-wants-to-talk-about-turkey-syria/

    I think you forgot the big beautiful wall built by the EU itself – with our money of course. When I remind the Trump-deranged of this and say they have paid for part of it, they are so angry they can’t reply.

    These people all have stout locking front doors, and in some cases walls and gates as well, with intercom. A country is like a great big family house, for the family and its guests, not for invaders. If it has no sea defences then it must have walls. A little town like Tenby has both.

  77. Nicholas Murphy
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Trump’s problem here is that he has committed himself to the means (the wall) rather than the worthy end. In WW2, we British would have used operations analysis (OA) to determine the best way of fixing a problem – and been open to adopting that. Walls have legitimacy, and I favour string defences against illegal immigration, and keeping the legal sort under very firm control too, but I can’t help but feel that the best counter-measure is to send all illegal immigrants either straight back to their countries of origin or, should that not be possible, into detention. And to make sure that such actions are brought to the attention of would-be migrants.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted January 7, 2019 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

      The Australian solution on its way to being adopted by the EU..

  78. Baz Lloyd
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    There’s no chance of a successful impeachment unless Trump is proven to have done something impeachable. And even then the chance is remote.

    Successful impeachment requires the votes of all the Democrat Senate Members plus well over a third of the Republican ones. It’s not even clear whether all the Democrat Senators would vote for it and no Republicans will.

    If, however, the House Democrats start the ball rolling towards their own inevitable final defeat, they will wreck what chance the Democrats have in 2020. Just as their appalling conduct in the Brett Kavanaugh Supreme Court appointment damaged them two months ago.

    On the other hand, this ‘wall’, ‘fence’, or whatever it’s supposed to be, is a joke. More fool Trump for promising it in the first place. It’s impossible and waste of money.

    But Trump isn’t alone in promising and blogging a wish list, and imagining that getting people to vote for it, will, on its own, bring it into existence.

  79. Bellboy
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    We’ll know all about walls when we leave without a WA in place..EU access will be squeesed off with only emergency supplies getting through, and don’t tell me about WTO, I remember well how things were in the 1950’s and 1960’s..slow slow slow, paper for everything and with customs not working on the weekends..ships would be in port for one two or three weeks discharging cargo to warehouses for sorting and storing and then distribution..yes it was like we had all the time in the world and we did, only thing is JIT was not known about in those days. Seems to me the EU is determined we go out to WTO rules not to punish us but to make the point otherwise as they see it there will never be peace in the camp until the error of our ways are clearly demonstrated to us..therefore out we go for one two three, five or ten years

  80. Hardlyever
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    The french never wanted us in the EU in the first place..it won’t take them to build whatever walls their pissed off officials want, government will have little say

  81. George Brooks
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    Looks like my last paragraph was not liked

  82. Ed Mahony
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    @Sir John,

    Apologies for my religious comment.

    Last year, four youths with knives brushed passed me in a middle class area of London having stabbed a boy their age (about 17). I went to the boy’s aid. After someone called the police and the other youths had gone, I went to a pub across the street to get water and a cloth for the boy. The police arrived within minutes and told me they would take over (the police were GREAT – they were prompt, efficient, reassuring and grateful). Luckily the boy was fine (although he said this was the second time he’d been stabbed in London).
    If things had gone a little differently, I could have ended up stabbed myself.

    And now this murder on the train in Surrey.

  83. Ian Pennell
    Posted January 6, 2019 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    Dear Mr Redwood

    You highlight the issues Donald Trump now faces in Washington with the House of Representatives (with a now Democrat Majority) willing and able to frustrate his domestic agenda; this includes said Democrats going as far as to try and get Donald Trump impeached.

    In the UK Theresa May has a worse situation in some respects: She has a minority Conservative administration, possibly up to 20 Conservative MPs are trying to thwart Brexit along with virtually all opposition parties and (of course) the House of Lords is dominated by the Left. The EU knows that Theresa May would not be able to get to a managed WTO “No Deal” Brexit- which is why they are offering her such appalling terms!

    More immediate is the Militant Remainers getting an Amendment to the Finance Bill which, if passed on 8th January, will effectively stop Britain leaving the EU without a Deal unless- in the very unlikely event- most MPs could be persuaded to back it.

    A Government that cannot get majority support for its business in the House of Commons cannot govern: Engineering for a General Election might risk a minority Labour Government (the most recent You Gov poll has the Conservatives 6% ahead of Labour)- but its the only way of getting rid of weak Theresa May and the current stalemate- and (in the longer term) saving both Brexit and the Conservative Party.

  84. Alexis
    Posted January 7, 2019 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    Yes, you need some kind of barrier to help control who enters. You cannot have ‘no borders’ – two minutes’ thought tells us that.

    If you don’t have some idea of who is in the country, who should be paying tax, and who should be receiving state funded resources, you will have a free for all and a recipe for chaos.

    You will also have no ability to plan or allocate resources. It will all be guesswork. You cannot run a modern economy on romanticism, hope, and guesswork.

    I believe this country is already suffering from this lack of control.

    I believe we now need some internal means of border control, as practised on the continent, where borders are simply agreements rather than coasts. We can no longer rely on the sea and our weakened, decimated border force.

  85. BR
    Posted January 7, 2019 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    The key to keeping immigrants out is to root them out and send them back.

    I know that they make it difficult, by lying about their country of origin, but if they say that they are from Syria then we hand them over to the Syrian embassy. Once word gets around that will soon stop – they will go to the next softest country.

    We need to do this or etc ed.

    I’m surprised and disappointed to constantly read here good analyses and good ideas by JR… none of which ever goes anywhere, certainly not the Commons let alone government policy.

    There is an underlying question here: how do we get some real Conservatives/conservatives into positions of power?

    And how do we start the process of getting the message across to society as a whole to stop the erosion of free speech and incessant ‘liberal’ attrition?

    I’d like to know if JR is going to stand in the next leadership election. It’s been a while since the last. Your country needs you!

    • tim bishop
      Posted January 8, 2019 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

      Immigration is a structural problem. You dont stop immigration by being nasty to immigrants. You stop immigration by helping to solve the problems in the countries they come from.

  86. Atlas
    Posted January 7, 2019 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    I think Trump is quite entitled to proceed with an election pledge that he made – whether it will do the job in the longer run is quite a different matter. The Western and eventually Eastern Roman Empires were overrun in the end by mass migration.

    • Mitchel
      Posted January 8, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

      The East lasted a lot longer because they slaughtered the Goths(and pushed the survivors westwards) rather than laying down before them!

  87. Rien Huizer
    Posted January 7, 2019 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Mr Redwood, you know that the Trump Wall is a propaganda item. There may be people who believe that a wall would do something good for the country (keep criminals out) and the wall is a symbol of their faith. You would not want to build a wall in Ireland to keep the hungry Irish out once Global Britain becomes very prosperous for the following reason.

    As the Iron curtain showed: walls do not do the trick. You need minefields and watchtowers manned by people willing to shoot those who try to pass. Find enough Americans who would like to be responsible for that.And then again, most illegals entereing the US by crossing the land border are on their way to jobs and valuable to influential criminals who will not be deterred by bricks and mortar. A wall if it would make crossing harder (a big if) would just raise the price, not reduce demand.
    I remember that when I lived in the US I used the services of a Mr Rodriguez (always paid in cash) who would bring a crew of lawnmowing Mexicans on a weekly basis), a cleaing lady from El Salvador and s a baby sitter from Cuba. Everyone I knew had good, affordable helpers without too many papers (and who usually had, mysteriously, driving licenses). Just imagine an American adult mowing someone else’s suburban lawn for a fee..

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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