The collapse of Labour

Mr Corbyn must have been  forced into a corner over a second referendum. He had wisely held out against it and sort of kept his party together and his poll ratings up. He then gave in just after 8 MPs left mainly over de selection , unpleasant treatment from their party and anti Semitism. We read his advisers thought a second referendum would be the way to stop more dissenters. That is not necessarily the case, as MPs  leaving seems to have more to do with the style of the party , the threat of deselection and a wider range of issues than the EU. It does mean, however, he will lose a lot of Leave voters who stuck with the party in 2017 in the belief that Labour  now supported exit.

I have not met or heard from any Leave voters who think we need a second referendum. The campaign to hold one is of course a movement of Remain voters who cannot accept the verdict of the People’s vote. The Remain MPs  spend their time slanging off Leave voters by saying we were too stupid to vote properly or patronising us by saying we  were misled or not given the true facts. Allying himself to this group drives a new wedge into his party, alienating Leave voters and putting many MPs in a difficult position having promised their Leave voters Labour backed leaving. Given the way they treat us Leave voters it is difficult to see why any of us would want to change sides and join them. A second referendum looks like a hopeless mission. Even this Parliament should vote it down. Were one to be held why wouldn’t Leave win by a bigger margin, given all that Remain has said about us, and all the false forecasts they have come out with? The hardline Remain MPs are remorselessly negative, run down our country, think the UK can do nothing for itself, and take the EU’s side in any negotiation. These are not becoming characteristics for those who wish to represent most UK voters.

Labour has not defined the question for its  referendum, but have said it will include Remain, so it is a re run of what we have already v0ted on. The only question to be resolved is do they want a proper WTO exit as an option, or would they seek to deny Leave voters even  that? The last thing Leave voters could accept is a referendum between staying in as a full member and staying in some limbo land with a pretend Brexit under the cosh of a Withdrawal Agreement and in due course an Association Agreement.

The immediate polling is dire for Labour as a result of all this. It looks as if they have plunged well below 30%, with a worse result if the so called Independent group becomes a party that contests elections. That group could poll into double figures, damaging Labour and the Lib Dems but not polling enough to  hold the seats of those MPs who have decamped to it. Any party which ignores the wishes and views of 17.4 million voters will struggle for support.

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216 Comments

  1. Dame Rita Webb
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    JR I was more looking forward to reading your comments about Mrs May’s latest betrayal rather than about Comrade Corbyn

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:19 am | Permalink

      1. MPs should vote against May’s deal as it is so bad and it is not Brexit.

      2. MPs should vote against extending Article 50.

      3. MPs should vote against taking “no deal off the table”.

      If MPs vote for 2 & 3 they will be exposed as completely untrustworthy, preferring the unelected EU Commission to the British Electorate and completely undemocratic.

      Unfortunately large numbers do not care about being exposed as completely untrustworthy, preferring the unelected EU Commission to the British Electorate and completely undemocratic. The media is also completely untrustworthy, preferring the unelected EU Commission to the British Electorate and completely undemocratic. Travelling home last night all comments were from Remain MPs apart from one from Sir Bill Cash.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:26 am | Permalink

        Indeed. They are already exposed as untrustworthy and totally misguided.

        • Stephen Priest
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

          A letter to more untrustworthy and totally misguided people.

          Dear Shinzō Abe, Japan should become part of China

          Dear Mark Carney, Canada should become part of the United States

          Dear Gina Miller, Guyana should become part of Brazil

          Dear Hillary Rodham Clinton & Barack Obama,
          The United States should join the EU and the European Court of Justice should replace the Supreme Court of the United States

        • Hope
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

          MPs have acted as traitors to representative democracy. Listening to them today it is clear these EU fanatics are deluded and spout utter rot in parliament. It demonstrates it is not fit for purpose. Sensational language. They are applauding each other for stopping leaving the EU without a deal. Parroting cliff edge, and repeating other apocalyptic warnings. Complete idiots. Spelman being another EU loony tune fanatic.

          May yesterday preferred to take sides with her small number of EU fanatic cabinet ministers rather than 70 percent of Tory supporters who make the Tory party possible. Having betrayed the Tory party supporters and activists, some of whom already realising they were betrayed by their MP i.e. Letwin, Boles, Allen, Rudd, Gauke, Clarke, Wollaston etc, how do you think this will translate into future Tory votes?
          Compare and contrast with treatment of leave ministers at Chequers.

          • Stephen Priest
            Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

            Mr High Minded Lawyer Dominic Grieve says leaving the EU without a deal is illegal under international law.

            You couldn’t make it up – unless you are a high minded omnipotent international lawyer who doesn’t believe in democracy.

        • Merlin
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

          I have no idea what will happen with Brexit anymore.

          Clear as mud at this point. I keep thinking of scenarios and they all seem plausible.

          ‘Prediction is very difficult, especially if it’s about the future.’ Niels Bohr

      • Andy
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

        Mrs May’s deal takes us out of the EU. It take us out of the single market. It ultimately takes us out of the customs union – which none of you had even heard of before the referendum. It ends free movement of them here and, tragically, of us there. We have to pay your huge Brexit bill of course but then it ends ongoing payments to the EU.

        Of course – her deal is rubbish because it is significantly worse than the status quo. But to argue it is not Brexit is really rather dim. In what way does it not deliver what you voted for?

        • Dame Rita Webb
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

          You forgot to mention the right to remain in the UK (and bring in the rest of the family) for EU citizens. Another winner for the UK tax payer with an unending commitment to subsidise their low skill/low wage jobs, even if they bother to work in the first place and avoid a life of crime.

        • Stephen Priest
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

          Andy has Anna Soubry levels of condescension

          “It ultimately takes us out of the customs union – which none of you had even heard of before the referendum.”

          What Andy has admitted hear is the more people found out about the EU during the referendum the less they liked it.”

        • L Jones
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

          You are a patronising noodle, Andy. And you obviously have no respect for your elders AND BETTERS. Many of us are younger than you are and are appalled by your contempt for your seniors.

          By the way – what do you understand by ”status quo”? Define the ”EU status quo”. And how do you see things progressing with your EU in the near future? That is, in moving away from the ”status quo”.

          You are very silly if you really believe that no-one will go anywhere after Brexit. It may be that you’ll have to pay more to travel. That should be no problem for one as wealthy as you say you are, and you don’t care about the rest of us – so, what matter?

          By the way – have you looked up the word ”conscription” yet?

        • NickC
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

          Andy, Just because you didn’t know about the EU is no reason that others didn’t. I bought the British Management Data Foundation copies of both the EU Constitution and the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 principally to compare them. In that way I found that the both the EU and the UK government were lying – the treaties were almost the same.

          There is no “status quo” with the EU. It’s all about “ever closer union”. Or don’t you even know that? Theresa May’s draft Withdrawal Agreement is an interim arrangement, so it does not “deliver” Brexit at all. You have frequently been told its contents – have you not read it yourself yet?

          The dWA keeps us locked into nearly all the EU’s institutions and competences exactly as now, but without even an exit clause whilst forbidding us to use international law. The final insult is the dWA gives the EU no incentive for a better final (ie Brexit) deal. Like Chequers the dWA is a revolving door Remain – out of the existing treaties, back under EU control via new treaties. It’s more of a Remain than we have now.

        • Hope
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

          It shows me you have not read the servitude plan or articles by those experts who have and translate into easy reading. May’s servitude plan does not take back laws, borders or money. It treats N.Ireland completely different to the rest of the UK. It fails not to be in the customs union or single market or under the ECJ, they are under different names but mean the same.

          The £39 billion is an estimate and vast amounts continue thereafter for years to come. Kitkat policy to hide true costs and ties to EU. To believe the sum is for £39 billion full stop is for the fairies. ECJ will apply and the UK gives up its right under international law for this! The starting point for any trade talk starts on the promise of the servitude plan!

        • Pud
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

          You’re repeating your lie that Leavers have never heard of the Customs Union. In my experience, any Remainers I explained it to were surprised to hear that the EU set tariffs on items like processed coffee, so that Germany makes a lot of money from coffee despite not growing a bean.

        • Edward2
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

          Sadly you are mistaken Andy

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted February 28, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

          Andy old bean, calm down or you will become pink in the face.

          During the EU immigration crisis where Germany unilaterally invited one million transients of indeterminate status to come to Europe, there were negotiations with Turkey about compensation and about joining the customs union to encourage them to keep as many immigrants outside the EU as possible.

          Regular EU watchers (leave voters) can not fail to have become aware of the customs union at this point (two years before our choice to leave) even if there were not already aware of it.

          Change the record to one with more credibility please.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:27 am | Permalink

        Indeed May’s deal is worst than remain. Only an idiot would vote for it or suggest that MPs do. But then we have complete lefty anti democratic dopes like May, Hammond, Rudd, Clarke x2, Grieve …… all over the place in Cabinet (clearly all in in the wrong party).

        It seems we now have six left wing parties who want to overturn the referendum. Only UKIP, Farage’s new party and perhaps the Tories (only if they finally replace May and get a new sensible leader) are supporting leave.
        The country and the Tory party members are crying out for a real Brexit and property low tax Tory party. One that would render the other two parties superfluous would win an election easily against Corbyn and the (hugely split) lefty anti democratic remainers.

        May is clearly slightly better at playing pool than being PM, she should retire with her richely undeserved, gold plated PMs pension and go and play pool.

      • Mark B
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:54 am | Permalink

        “This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide..”

        https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

        Every MP, including those in the government, need to be reminded of this. This is NOT their decision.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

          I had forgotten what a complete pack of lies this absurd document was. Why on earth was there no leave leaflet in the same envelope, hardly a level pitch was it? Yet the remainers still complain! Leave won by a good margin, even with all the establishment against. The appalling BBC, the government, most lawyers, most civil servants, most of academia, some leaders large business (many pressure to do so by wanting to keep in with the EU gravey train …… in fact all the people who wanted the EURO and the ERM.

      • Timaction
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

        I think we’re at a tipping point and the legacies have been exposed for what they trully are. Time for change and a clean sweep of Westminster. Sir Nigel will give us another voting option.

    • Peter
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink

      I was also expecting to read about May reneging on leaving the EU at the end of March. Meanwhile :-

      The Withdrawal Agreement needs to be voted down.

      Then – if No Deal’ is about to be taken off the table – the ERG need to bring a vote of no confidence in the government.

      This gives Labour the General Election they want. Meanwhile parliament is suspended and we go through to the end of March and automatically leave on WTO terms.

      Genuine Leave MPs are re-elected. MPs who conspired against the Referendum result lose their seats.

    • NickC
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:48 am | Permalink

      Dame Rita Webb, As was I. But it seems our entire establishment is dominated by Remains whether Tory, LibDem, or Labour together with the BoE, the BBC, and the civil service. We know that JR and all Leave MPs are in a minority.

      The sheer dishonesty of the Remain establishment is breathtaking. Yet despite the wall of propaganda they have not battered us down – Leave voters are not giving up. Indeed the reverse. UKIP had 2 candidates locally in 2018, there are 9 for the May elections.

    • oldtimer
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      JR’s comments apply equally to those Conservative MPs who seek to delay Brexit beyond 29 March and/or seek a second referendum with the unspoken aim of frustrating Brexit altogether. I read his post as a coded comment on their behaviour.

      I find it extraordinary that such MPs treat the electorate with such contempt. Sooner or later there will be an electoral reckoning, quite possibly linked with a realignment of political parties and interests.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

        Indeed they Tory remoaner traitors are doing huge damage.

    • agricola
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      Yes Rita, I fear what might replace this latest affront to democracy. Democracy is a fragile creature, it only requires a large section of our population to tire of it and chaos can ensue. The fire is being stoked by most members of the HoC and their duplicity.

    • BR
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

      Likewise.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

      Indeed but she could still pull a real Brexit off all she needs is a complete U turn after her deal is voted down. Voted down perhaps thanks to misguided people like Grieve and Rudd who have completely undercut the negotiating position. Her deal should never go through anyway even with changes suitable changes to the back stop.

      Just leave on 29th and ensure parliament can not intervene in some way, that is the only way to play it.

      T May was so deluded just now that she claimed her government had “cut income tax”! No dear you have not. You have increased personal allowances slightly for a few but have abolished child benefit for many, abolished personal allowances for others both increases in effect. For Landlords you even charge income tax on income they have not even made thus pushing up rents for tenants and restricting supply. Also you have increases NI which is another income tax and have the workplace pension effectively another tax on income. Why not check your facts before you mislead so dear? We are not all that stupid.

    • Captain Peacock
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

      I agree who in the Tory party can criticize the Labour party when the mess a few MPs like Rudd are causing . Both parties are listening and acting on the behest of a handful of MPs and ignoring the wishes of millions on Brexit supporters.

      • Dame Rita Webb
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

        Is anybody bothered if Amber Rudd threw her toys out of the pram and resigned? I couldn’t give a toss she will be out on her ears after the next election anyway.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

      Dame Rita Webb – absolutely correct!

      If Parliament sign-up to May’s “Traitors Withdrawal Agreement” it will go down in historical infamy as one of the worst betrayals of the British people!

      JR, are we about to see the final “ultimate” treachery by Theresa May.

      Should it come to pass, there will be such an outcry I fear the Conservatives will be confined to history as a future viable party, and the Brexit Party will clean up the disenchanted Leave voters plus those Remainers that are now starting to see the “real” truth behind the Parliament treachery (with its co-conspirators in Brussels); enacting their revenge against the British public for having the audacity to think outside the Westminster/EU box!

      John, this is your chance, perhaps the last, to write history!

  2. Sajid
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    I have met many many Leave voters who want a second referendum. They see now we do not hold all the cards, they see that the trade deals are not going to be rolled over, they see there will not be frictionless trade with the EU27. They see the Leave campaign’s claims are exposed as false. And they want to remain.

    • Dame Rita Webb
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:16 am | Permalink

      Eh we do not hold all the cards? What about the trade surplus the EU enjoys with the UK? What about the about 3 million EU citizens over here engaged in low skill/low pay welfare dependent work, against the 1 million high skill/high wage or property owning UK citizens in the EU? What about Germany hiding under our nuclear umbrella and refusing to meet its NATO commitments on defence spending? We hold the cards except they are held by an inadequate.

      • Newmania
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

        I am afraid that making BMWs more expensive will not make us richer , it will make us poorer . Its called comparative advantage and is O Level economics( or was when they had O Levels )
        The Eu citizens of this country contribute more per capita to the treasury are better qualified than work more and claim less than the average British worker, even the East Europeans taken alone are better qualified and less welfare dependent. In fact the Uk , for this reason and others is very lucky in European terms at not being overwhelmed by the old and dependent

        It is our right to unilaterally disarm our Nuclear capability at any time . I think it would be unwise personally but it is certainly not their for the benefit of Germany , and it is really quite cheap

        As we get further on with this process it is really about time you acquired some basic factual knowledge . There has been ample opportunity , again and again this complete nonsense is recycled

      • lastly
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:17 am | Permalink

        Looking at Liam Fox last evening on BBC Newsnight..he looks very shook, I fear that things are not working out as he planned. It could be a case of to find some way to get back into the EU now – but to save face -it looks like reality has finally hit home -the realization that the world has moved on..and unless we move with it in some way we’ll be left behind- far behind.-there are no new special el Dorado trade deals out there waiting for us- we were badly lied to.

        • NickC
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

          Lastly, We weren’t lied to by Leave, though Remain became a joke in its own lifetime. Leave was not predicated on a deal – it might be slightly better to have one but the impact is likely to be low. The reason is we can trade without RTAs within the WTO system. Many countries indicated that they want trade deals with us but have got tired waiting for the UK Remain establishment to actually Leave.

        • Len Grinds
          Posted February 28, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

          I fully agree. You can see in the faces of Fox and Gove – the Leavers who have been honest enough to stay in the Cabinet instead of walking away like a toddler refusing to clear up his mess (Johnson, Raab, Davis) – that they now understand that the case to leave the EU was based on a mountain of lies. They know a reckoning is coming. No wonder they look so nervous!

          • NickC
            Posted February 28, 2019 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

            Len Grinds, Clearly the UK’s ability to be independent is not “based on a mountain of lies” for the simple reason that the majority of the world’s nations are not in the EU. If they are out, we can be too.

      • A.Sedgwick
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:35 am | Permalink

        Spot on.

        Tobias Ellwood, another political nonentity, was spouting Project Fear falsehoods on LBC last night, unfortunately Iain Dale did not challenge but let him rant on.

        By Remaining, the WA is far worse, we loose economically by becoming even more mired in a protectionist,bloated, undemocratic, unstable bureaucracy, we loose internationally by just being one of 28 and in terms of being more secure the EU has become a troublemaker not the great post-war peace keeper in the dreams of Heath and his military generation.

      • Timaction
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

        Indeed a totally inadequate foolish quisling in a Vichy Party.

      • Mitchel
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:08 am | Permalink

        If a recent polling survey,”Trust during the crisis”(8/2/19), from Atlantik Brucke/Atlantic Bridge in Germany is correct and sustained,NATO will be toast:-

        84.6% view German-American relations as negative or very negative;only 10.4% find it positive or very positive.57.6% want greater distance between USA and Germany.

        42.3% consider China a better partner than the USA;only 23.1% believe the USA is more reliable than China.

        Only 1.9% are concerned by an expansion of the Russian zone of influence.Only 2.2% are concerned by the growing influence of China.

      • Den
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

        Well said Rita. The facts always win the arguments and the truth will always hurt someone. Remainers in particular. Greece, Poland and Estonia along with the UK and of course the USA are the only ones who actually pay their way in NATO. The rest of them are but parasites on the poorer Nations of Europe. France and Germany in particular. These founders of the EU are the worst of the culprits and they are supposed to be allies?

      • margaret howard
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

        Rita

        “hiding under our nuclear umbrella”

        What exactly does our nuclear umbrella consist of?

        • Dame Rita Webb
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

          Trident

          • margaret howard
            Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

            How would that protect, say Eastern Europe, from a Russian nuclear attack?

            It’s a myth (and a waste of money).

            People have enough of having their lives interfered with and being used as footballs in dangerous game playing

            Big toys – missiles atom bombs, submarines and Rambo weapons to keep the arms industries happy

            We poor taxpayers pay for it all. Let them bankrupt themselves so we ‘ordinary’ people can get on with our lives

        • agricola
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

          Four submarines I believe, each capable of eliminating life on a continent. It is called mutually assured destruction. Like it or not it has kept us major war free.

          • L Jones
            Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

            Amazingly, Margaret probably thinks that’s due to the EU.

          • Len Grinds
            Posted February 28, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

            You are aware that these are US-made weapons and that there is a US-failsafe so we cannot use them without US say-so? “Independent” nuclear weapons? Nonsense

          • NickC
            Posted February 28, 2019 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

            Len Grinds, They are not US-made. I know because I have helped towards making them.

    • DaveM
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:33 am | Permalink

      Likewise I’ve met many Remain voters who would vote to Leave. And the 18-25s are far more leave oriented than some people presume.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:43 am | Permalink

      Said – You actually haven’t met a single Leave voter who has changed their mind have you ?

    • jerry
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

      @Sajid; Whilst I have met many one time ‘Remain’ voter (including the ‘we had no voice in 2016’ youth vote) who, having witnessed the underhand & snide ways of the eurocrats during the A50 process, say that should there be a second referendum they would vote to leave and if given the option they would want nothing more to do with the EU via a WA either.

      Why do you think some Remoaners not only want a second referendum but now want to nobble the question, such as only having Remain or the WA on the ballot -in other words; “Head you loose, Tails I win”…

      • Fuddy Duddy
        Posted February 28, 2019 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

        How is it that many posters on this site spell lose as loose? Can’t be a odd typo.

    • L Jones
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      Perhaps it’s about time a remainer, such as yourself, Sajid, could tell us why we should admire the dystopia that is the EU, and turn our eyes back inwards to its narrow borders.
      We’re not all flat earthlings. There’s a big world out there, and we need to escape from this sinister ‘organisation’ to take advantage of it. But it would be instructive to understand why you people are so in thrall to your EU masters.

      • Andy
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

        1) The EU is not my master
        2) Being in the EU has made us all richer – you too
        3) The EU has spread peace, prosperity and democracy. The change has been immense. 30 years ago Germany wasn’t divided – Eastern Europe was communist. 20 years ago there was genocide in the Balkans. This is unthinkable. The EU has won the peace. And, no, NATO did not do it – as evidenced by its repeated failure to win the peace anywhere it has been involved.
        4) The EU has put people at the heart of what it does – it requires human rights to be respected, consumer rights too. No surprise the Tories want to scrap these
        5) The EU takes on unscrupulous big business. Microsoft, Google, Facebook etc. The Tory government cozies up to them.
        6) The EU cares about the environment. Our beaches were pits until the EU required them to cleaned up. We have only ever lost a few dozen cases in the ECJ – most of those concern the UKs failure to treat waste water. Yes, you have voted to take back control of sewage.
        7) Best of all because of the EU Mr Redwood’s generation is the first in a thousands years where the young men have not been expected to go an masse to fight and die in pointless wars against our neighbours. Pre-EU half the contributors to this blog would not have reached pension age. They’d be dead in a field somewhere. Many actual WW2 veterans came out strongly against Brexit because their friends and family actually fought and died to end nationalism in Europe. It is people who have never actually fought who back Brexit.

        The EU is very far from perfect. But on every count your Brexit is worse. As we see more and more everyday. Faced with evidence sensible people would change their minds. But I expect nothing less than anger from the zealots.

    • NickC
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink

      Sajid, I know of no Leave voter who now wants to Remain, or even have a second referendum. Not one. And I suspect I know a lot more Leave voters than you do. Why would anyone want to vote Remain to completely obliterate our nation (the EU would exact revenge), to join EMU, and impoverish ourselves like all of southern EU?

    • Noneoftheabove
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      What a coincidence. I have also met many leavers but they have believe that we have a strong hand which was played badly and that we should still leave on WTO terms.

    • Anonymous
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      Not my experience at all Sajid.

      I have met many Remain voters who accept the result and just want Brexit done.

      • L Jones
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

        I agree, Anonymous. And those who voted Remain but have been so appalled by the behaviour of the EU and its representatives that they are now eager to leave.
        Strangely, Andy and ilk, I count Leavers and Remainers among my friends. We’re not all narrow-minded!

    • Mark B
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

      Let us see ,after we have left the EU ?

    • bigneil
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

      Regarding your points Sajid, so you want us to roll over, give them all our money for evermore and give all border controls to Brussels with the inevitable flood of freeloaders. Something about your post says you’d be very happy with that.

    • mancunius
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

      This is a much-repeated untruth told by remainers.

      Your ‘I-voted-Leave-but-now-want-to-Remain’ unicorn has not ever been seen by the naked eye. Those who publish such ‘avowals’ are invariably caught out as remain propagandists who in fact voted remain.

      • L Jones
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

        I truly believe that it is a myth that is successfully propagated by remainers that many MANY people are now in favour of remaining shackled. This is because they are very clever at shouting more loudly than anyone else. They have been since the Referendum. (They got their act together – got to give them that.)
        But we all know empty vessels (vassals?) make the most noise – but shouting and abuse certainly have their place when a point is being made when the substance of that point is weak.
        Some people are deceived by this.

    • Lexi Dick
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

      I think you made that up, Sajid. I’m quite active in Leave circles, and I’ve never met anyone who voted Leave and now wants a second referendum.

      A few would tolerate a ref 2 where the alternative was WTO or May’s Withdrawal Agreement.

      • L Jones
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

        But we can’t overlook the fact that any further Referendum could be ”fixed”. I didn’t used to believe in conspiracy theories – but this is not the world it used to be!
        I fear for my children if we don’t escape this greedy, grasping, controlling, inward-looking and perfectly dreadful Dystopia.

    • Helen Smith
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

      Yeah, course you have!

  3. Peter Wood
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:28 am | Permalink

    Good morning,

    If I remember my Sunday school, there’s an appropriate parable to your post this morning, I believe it starts ‘.. first cast out the beam in thine own eye….’

    The Tory Party needs a root and branch renewal, and I can think of no better way to force it that for a General Election. We now know who to de-select, and they will be removed, for if they are not, UKIP will take the seat.
    To save the Conservative Party, you must force a failure of this pathetic, incompetent and deceitful May government, rebuild and accomplish a real Brexit.

    • Peter Wood
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:34 am | Permalink

      * for UKIP read Mr. Farage’s new ‘leave the EU Party’.

      • jerry
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

        But Peter, the 2017 GE made it very obvious (if people had doubted it before) that UKIP was not the naturally right-wing party some think it was. Much of UKIP’s support was from the eurosceptic left…

        Also any root and branch renewal of the Tory party risks affecting not just those you think should be “removed” (I assume, hard line europhiles) but disaffecting the centre ground, that of the traditional Conservative. Your idea risks giving steam to the new Independent Group, not any replacement for UKIP!

      • NickC
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

        Peter Wood, UKIP will do just fine. Nigel Farage is a great guy and just the politician that was needed to mobilise Leave. If there is no UKIP candidate then I would go for the new Brexit Party. But fragmentation is a problem which will weaken the Leave efforts.

        Elections are won not just by money, but by boots on the ground. In the Referendum campaign we had about 30 leafleters locally of which one was a Tory – the rest were all UKIP activists or supporters.

      • John Hatfield
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

        They need to combine Peter. Despite lack of, or adverse publicity, UKIP has not gone away.

      • Steve
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

        Peter Wood

        “for UKIP read Mr. Farage’s new ‘leave the EU Party’. ”

        And where is he ? No guts, waste of space.

        • L Jones
          Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

          Research, Steve? Not just Facebook.

    • Steve
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

      Peter Wood

      “The Tory Party needs a root and branch renewal”

      Agree with much of what you say Peter, but I think the tories are finished anyway.

      They can go one of two ways;

      Refuse to take no deal off the table and get us out on 29th.

      Or remove no deal, delay or stop brexit.

      With the former they might just stand a slim chance of winning an election.
      If they take the latter option, then it will go sectarian and they’ll be terrified to venture outside.

  4. Mark B
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    http://daystobrexit.co.uk/

    Not that it matters. After all, why would the Tory party, the ones that took us into what is now the EU, let us Leave.

    Labour maybe all but over but, I feel that the party of our kind host will not be far behind no matter who they choose after Teresa May MP resigns.

    In order for evil to succeed all it takes is for good men to do nothing

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

      And resign she will, job done having filibustered and obstructed the will of the people for 3 years.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

        Indeed what an appalling and disingenuous lefty she is.

        Brexit clearly meant sweet FA to the appalling socialist Theresa May.

    • NickC
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      Mark B, Right in every respect. I will be doing something despite recently having an operation – I hope to be out leafleting today. UKIP now has excellent social media campaigners. Let us hope Facebook etc do not censor us too badly.

    • Alan Joyce
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:54 am | Permalink

      Dear Mr. Redwood,

      I agree with the comments of Mark B. On previous occasions I have said that I think that those in positions of power and responsibility in the Conservative Party, including many MP’s, have not yet grasped how angry Leave voters are with the way that the Government and, in particular, the Prime Minister has conducted Brexit. Perhaps, they are too complacent that an imploding Labour Party will guarantee Conservative rule in perpetuity.

      Mr. Redwood, you conclude your today’s comments with the words ‘Any party which ignores the wishes and views of 17.4 million voters will struggle for support’.

      I agree but one might say the Conservative Party is going the right way about it.

      • Alan Joyce
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:03 am | Permalink

        Dear Mr. Redwood,

        Today in The Sun newspaper.

        We ought to be ashamed of slippery, spineless, arrogant, shifty MPs trying to derail Brexit despite the democratic vote. MPs are refusing to obey the clear instructions given from British voters: get us out of the EU.

        They lie. Deceive. Betray. Dissemble.

        There are notable exceptions, of course, including our host, but are there any out there who would disagree with these sentiments?

  5. Ian wragg
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:12 am | Permalink

    May will follow “Corbyn witb 2 remain options on the ballot paper.
    She’s a traitor.

    • Stred
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

      Remain and go back on worse terms or May/Robbins/EU WA and same but no votes. It was always their plot. They are all in it together. (except SJR)

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        Plus a few others.

  6. Brian Cowling
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    Dame Rita Webb: “JR I was more looking forward to reading your comments about Mrs May’s latest betrayal rather than about Comrade Corbyn”

    Peter Wood: ” If I remember my Sunday School … real Brexit.”

    Hear, Hear! Loudly.

  7. Newmania
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    The immediate polling is dire for Labour as a result of all this. It looks as if they have plunged well below 30%,

    U Gov 22/23 Feb had Labour on 30% and Conservative on 41% prior to the announcement that Labour would back a second referendum. This was published yesterday which is perhaps why Mr Redwood has made his “mistaken” assertion that Labour has lost support as a result of supporting the People`s vote.
    A clear majority has for some time not wished to have Brexit and support for a second referendum continues to be vastly higher than was ever the case for the first one .

    • Jagman84
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:29 am | Permalink

      I repeat, just because you state something false and wish it to be so, it doesn’t make it the ‘truth’. Most people learn that at an early age. You clearly didn’t.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:49 am | Permalink

      An overwhelming majority of constituencies wish to have Brexit. Gaining a few % support in London in existing Labour seats by promising a Loser’s Vote will not change that arithmetic. It is the make-up of the next Parliament that is important because the very holding of a Loser’s vote renders its outcome entirely irrelevant and able to be ignored by the Government.

    • eeyore
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:51 am | Permalink

      Please explain why Leavers have to win two referendums but Remainers only one.

      • agricola
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

        Because 550 of those in the HoC represent vested interests in many guises but not those they were elected to represent or the published manifesto they faught the last election on. They aptly fit that old yiddish phrase shysters.

    • Anonymous
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      I never saw anyone wearing a blue and yellow beret until after the referendum. I wasn’t aware of such passion for the EU and – except for one protest stall in our town on a single day last year – I have not seen one in real life.

      May hardening her attitude to the EU would see Labour as toast and you know it.

      The Tories should have a thumping majority now but don’t.

      The vast majority of Remainers I know accept that they lost and just want Brexit done.

      What is causing our troubles is the uncertainty.

    • NickC
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      Newmania, The EU was always keen on democracy – “Keep voting until you get the right answer!” is the EU’s watchword. But there is no legitimacy for a second referendum if there’s no legitimacy for the first. The sheer dishonesty of your position beggars belief.

    • Richard1
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

      His point is that it is only those who wish to remain who support a 2nd referendum not those who support leave. Since c 5m labour voters voted to leave it is logical that labour will lose support having allied itself to the campaign to stop Brexit. Labour’s plan for the CU + ‘close alignment’ is shadow EU membership anyway.

    • a-tracy
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

      When they poll again Newmania listening to people I suspect Labour will poll even lower – Starmer knows and Corbyn knows (they have spoken to Barnier) they can not have their customs union and single market and leave.

      Corbyn’s proposal for a customs union with the European Union was rejected by May because we were told you can’t strike free trade agreements with other nations in the World this does not give us Global Britain striking out in new markets suitable for the products we manufacture in the UK and those manufacturers that can come back as they would no longer be divied up with the other EU27.

      You can’t have the Single Market without free movement of benefits. So people who get housing benefit, child tax credits, working tax credits taking low PAYE income and topping up with black market jobs will be able to continue. Cameron tried to get this simple adjust – NO the EU was completely against even a couple of years delay on these benefits to stop welfare immigration and if it was a massive problem why on earth would the EU have had a problem with that. Child benefit is meant to help you raise a child on low income in this expensive Country – not to provide benefits for Mum that are more than a NMW worker could earn in some EU countries.

  8. Mick
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Sir John Redwood out side of London you will be hard pushed to find any labour voter that’s wants a second referendum, because we all know it would have the full backing of big business, the rich ,Eu loving mps and of course the Eu to keep us in the dreaded Eu for good and you can bet your bottom dollar we would never have the chance again to vote to leave ever again,eventually when there is a GE labour are toast , the way they conned the gullible people to vote for them in 2017 with no tuition fees and to abide by the referendum result, if they had been straight with us in 2017 the Tory’s wouldn’t have lost the sitting mps and gained extra to boot , you only have to listen to the promises there coming out with now , that saying springs to mine Once bitten

  9. Oliver
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Off this topic, but on the main one, I just read this question on the Times “Comments” – I wonder if there is an answer from the more knowledgeable members of this forum?:

    “I wonder if I can ask a genuine question, without being subjected tot he relentless bickering from Remainers who fail to accept that they lost a vote in 9 of 12 UK Regions, accounting for 36m of the electorate (and won in only 3, accounting for 10m or so), a result which would have seen a parliament with an overwhelming majority for a “proper” Brexit, and indeed would have beeneasily sufficient, under EU QMV, to impose the result on the losers as would happen to us in the EU technocracy they claim to love so much?

    The question is – if it is an accepted principle that “parliament cannot bind it’s successors” – [a] how can Maastricht, and all that followed, be legal, as they clearly appear to be substantially irreversible, and [b] how can the withdrawal agreement be legal if it commits us [again] to something from which we cannot unilaterally withdraw, with some sort of appropriate notice period?

    (presumably something to do with the supremacy of Treaties?, but IANAL).”

    Any views, learned friends, esp. Sir JR?
    Reply That was why I and others opposed various EU Treaties, because a Treaty can bind a future Parliament.

    • Oliver
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

      Thanks, much appreciated. Good old John Major, eh!

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

      Indeed. If a parliament is bound in chains by the treaties of earlier parliaments then democracy is slowly extinguishes. Why vote for (and pay) politicians who cannot act to change things anyway they are just pointless chocolate tea pots? They are just an expensive veneer of democracy, as indeed is the EU parliament. Well paid and pensioned just to shut up and to pretend it is a democracy.

  10. Dominic
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    What we witnessed in Parliament yesterday was an event so staining on the character of our nation that I find it almost impossible to find the correct words to describe it without incurring the wrath of the law

    John. You do yourself no favours by trying to divert attention away from the seditious, authoritarian reaction of your chosen leader. We know full well that Corbyn and his(brand of Labour ed) represents an existential threat to the UK but you fail us all by refusing to focus on May’s lies, abuse and exploitation of the people’s lack of political leverage

    In effect, ‘the people’ are unable to impose themselves upon the political decision making process. This power is held by the PM and certain members of the political and administrative class and this power is being openly and flagrantly abused

    The ERG’s decision not to force a GE is enough evidence I need to confirm by suspicions that all Brexit Tory MPs are in the back-pocket of May and the EU

    You have all betrayed the nation’s trust and its heritage

    • L Jones
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

      Dominic
      It is so sad to have to say – you speak for most of us, I believe. I really never thought it would come to this, the betrayal of us all, and our precious, beleaguered country.

  11. jerry
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    Forget Labour’s troubles, they’re not the party in govt!

    More worrying is the collapse of the Conservatives, and what the Prime Minister has been forced to promise her own rabble of disaffected MPs, all but assuring that a WTO exit is now impossible.

    We had 30 years of Tory infighting that resulted in the UK standing in the doorway marked “The EU”, facing in, now it seems we will have likely have years of standing in a doorway marked “The EU”, facing out, Great Britain reduced to shouting into a vacuum…

    • Adam
      Posted March 1, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      Collapses are preceded by motions at key points, causing creaking & wobbling, leading to a sudden thud, then a rustling as the dust gradually settles.

      UK’s membership of the EU was as crazy as Sybil Fawlty’s appointment of O’Reilly to build the access door in Fawlty Towers. Mrs May cannot solve the problem with her agreement to rent a vacuum cleaner.

  12. Dave Andrews
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    Looking at the programme for parliament, requesting an extension to Article 50 now seems most likely.
    However, as I understand it, this requires the unanimous agreement of the 27 EU leaders. Can any of the commentators here shed light on whether this would be a given?

    • Mark B
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

      The rEU27 would have been sounded out on this long ago. They got all they want from the UK and will not let it slip through their fingers now.

  13. Nigl
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    Pots and kettles Sir J R. ‘Any party which ignores the wishes of million plus voters will struggle for support’ so that’s the Tories kippered as well.

    From where I am sitting the only difference is the Tories are in power so that’s 100 plus MPs ‘on the books’ so looking after themselves with the rest more interested in the facade of party unity than their party members or the referendum result.

    Corbyn can huff and puff all he likes but it is your government that is selling us out. Unwise to crow sir.

  14. Lifelogic
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Indeed. Thornbury, Starmer and Grieve clearly want a totally anti democratic referendum choice of remain or a limbo land Brexit in name only. But we already know the total contempt Thornbury has of white van man. It seems they have total contempt for voters and democracy and should just be ruled by EU bureaucrats. All lawyers I think rather typical of the profession. At least white van man does something rather more productive.

    The country and the Tory party members are crying out for a real Brexit on 29th March. Also for a party led by a real Conservatives who believes in smaller government, lower taxes, far less regulation, easy hire and fire and cheap reliable (non green crap) energy.

    The totally unscientific idiots who now even want to ban gas hobs need to be expunged.

    The only good news is a Corbyn/SNP Government now looks very unlikely, despite May’s gross incompetence, broken compass and dishonesty.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

      I am currently listening to the Dangerous Hero book on Corbyn. Who on earth would want him in power especially with the SNP? The only things he ever got right over his long life was his dislike of some idiotic and damaging wars and his distrust of the EU and he has now even been forced to move on that one.

  15. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    The only Leave voters who want a second referendum are the ones who assume we will have a ‘real Leave’ option and who don’t trust Parliament to deliver ‘Real Leave’.
    We need to deselect and sack the MPs who have caused this massive distrust between the British people and th0se who resent them in Parliament. It destroys democracy!

  16. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    You are correct to highlight how those wishing to remain and overturn the result of the 2016 referendum are winning the argument (through sheer numbers as much as anything else) in the parliamentary Labour party even if not with their voters.

    However a little introspection would be helpful now, your party, including your party leader, are too keen on remaining under the yoke of EU law and influence. They are using trade as the stick to beat withdrawing from this legislative block. But it is really just a means to maintain the status quo.

    Fear, subservience, lack of imagination, laziness?

  17. Javelin
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    Surely the collapse of the Conservatives is what you should be worried about.

    It’s going to be impossible to win an election with almost no boots on the ground and the entire social and media comments section calling not to vote for a party that breaks their major electoral promise.

    The Conservatives are head straight into the abyss.

    • Anonymous
      Posted February 28, 2019 at 1:00 am | Permalink

      Javelin – I don’t think they believe it but they’re in for a shock.

  18. ken from glos
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    I would worry about the conservatives if i were you. As a life time tory voter i have called it a day and joinned The Brexit Party,

    • Oxiana321
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

      Yes, the end-game is when staunch, life-long supporters leave and I sense that is now happening.

  19. The PrangWizard
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Diversionary tactics today after yesterday’s perversity from traitor May, not unexpected. And should we read the final sentence as a criticism of our host’s party and leadership? If he were to do that, he should come out more clearly, but then that is not the style we have become accustomed to, so I think Sir John has lost his sense of awareness. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

  20. agricola
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    The leave voters that may dessert the Labour party have no incentive whatever to vote Conservative after yesterday transposed from”We are leaving the EU on 29th March” repeated as a mantra for the past six months, to a woolly set of might be’s. All of which stems from the mind boggling duplicjty and dishonesty of all but about 100 of our MPs. 550 shysters by any other name remain.

    Do not for one moment believe that any of the current political parties in the UK will benefit from this string of betrayals. I hope that Nigel Farage will emerge from this cesspit of dishonesty and lead the country to what it voted for. It is the only vote left to me as I do not belong to the island of Wokingham.

  21. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Any party which ignores the wishes and views of 17.4 million voters will struggle for support.

    Enough said.

  22. Andy
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    We accept the 2016 referendum result. We are simply waiting for you and the other Leave bigwigs to deliver on the lies you told about what Brexit will look like. You’ve had 3 years and the best anyone has come up with is Mrs May’s deal – which is rubbish.

    Labour is in a terrible place – but it is entirely down to its naff leader. Corbyn is almost 70. He probably has only one more general election in him anyway. Voters do not like hard left but – as Iain Duncan Smith and Michael Howard proved during their disastrous leaderships – voters do no like hard right either.

    If we were to end up with a contest between Rees Mogg and Corbyn at the next election it would be damning indictment of politics in our country that two such hapless individual could lead parties. I suspect the privileged posh boy would win – just – but only because he would be slightly less hated. At some point someone sensible will lead one of these parties at which point she or he can start rebuilding our country.

  23. L Jones
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    ”.. why wouldn’t Leave win?” Why? Because we all suspect that the result would be fixed. That is how much faith we have in the system now that it has been all but destroyed by self-serving civil servants and mendacious MPs.
    Of course Leave wouldn’t win. The EU wouldn’t allow them to.

  24. Anonymous
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    The Starmer referendum will be Remain or May’s Deal.

    • Anonymous
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      “Things have reached the stage, I am truly sorry to say, that I now find I hate the very sight of Big Ben and the Palace of Westminster.”

      Quentin Letts says this today over the Remain connivers. I think it pretty much sums up what I and many others feel too.

  25. NickC
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    JR, A valiant effort at deflection! However almost everything you say about Labour’s policy to trash the Referendum can be said about the Conservative party too. And will be.

  26. Freeborn John
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    You should be more concerned by the effect of Theresa May’s weak leadership and incompetent negotiating. Labour were 10 points behind the Tories two months before the last general election but when voters took a close look at May in 2017 we concluded she was not serious about delivering Brexit and her lead melted away. Everything since has confirmed that we were correct to deny her the majority she wanted to push through her terrible deal. Now that she has caved in and agreed to one delay she will cave in again and again and has taken the pressure off the EU to agree changes to the backstop.

  27. Richard
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    17.4 million didn’t vote for a no deal. The leave campaign was explicit about this. We will get a great deal they said. You are twisting the truth. Trade talks were supposed to take place in parallel with divorce talks. Leave voters were sold the unacheivable with lies and broken promises.

    • Freeborn John
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

      They Leave campaign did not say the UK “would” get a great deal. It was said we “should” be able to agree a deal with EU as we were starting from regulatory convergence. However the hostility of an EU intent in punishing the Uk and its intransigence in demanding the de facto annexation of Northern Ireland and £39bn that is totally unwarranted are responsible for the lack of any deal worth that enormous sum of money.

    • John C
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

      Unachievable? Leave has not even been tried. Stop pretending that May’s negotiations have been anything but discussions how to deceive the electorate.

  28. formula57
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    It is increasingly looking like what we need and deserve is a second Pride’s Purge.

  29. Kevin
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    “The Remain MPs spend their time slanging off Leave voters by saying we were too stupid to vote properly”

    Then it should be possible for a Conservative MP to use a similar argument in tabling a motion for Labour to be removed as an option from the general election ballot paper.

  30. Ian wragg
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    So we have a majority of kamikaze MPs who think that by betraying Britain they are fit for ‘re election.
    All 3 major parties are doomed.
    I have been a Tory voter all my life except when Cameron took over. I voted tory again last time as May said she would honour the referendum but never ever again.
    Such a lying treacherous person with absolutely no integrity.

  31. AndyC
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    This parliament has now surely lost its last shred of legitimacy. Both main parties now stand diametrically opposed to their manifesto committments, and it looks as if brexit will be abandoned in the next few weeks.

    At risk of appearing swivel-eyed, I’d march the entire lot (with a few honourable exceptions) to the Tower of London and incarcerate them there while elections were held for a new tranche of MP’s who do have the first clue as to their roles and responsibilities in a sovereign democracy.

  32. Cis
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    A vote to Remain in a second referendum would not mean the continuation of pre-2016 membership terms. The Commission would ensure that we had to crawl back with reduced rebates, etc.

    This would be in addition to the plain fact that ‘remain’ would not mean ‘keep the status quo’ in a second referendum, any more than it did in the first. ‘Remain’ means signing up to the Presidents’ vision of ‘ever closer union’ – essentially a United States of Europe (but nearer to an EUSSR) with an ever-increasing democratic deficit at its heart.

  33. Sakara Gold
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    Wellington was said to have observed during the Battle of Waterloo (18th June 1815) “A hard pounding this, gentlemen, lets see who can pound the longest”

    This quote, taken from Sir Walter Scott’s book “Paul’s Letters to His Kinfolk” reminds me of the current state of play, where even the PM is wavering, proposing to kick the can down the road and delay the Brexit promised to the country. Can she stand the pounding?

    I wonder what the Iron Duke would have made of Brexit, having fought the French for years during the Peninsular War…..possibly he would be rolling in his grave in St Pauls

  34. Bryan Harris
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Let’s face it, it is only because labour look so bad that the Tories have a good place in the polls, which is not a good way to determine who should govern…. Oh for a real right of centre governing party
    As for the next referendum – the remoaners want the questions limited to either May’s deal, or to stay in the EU… If we are forced into a second referendum then we must be certain that a third option is available: LEAVE ON WTO TERMS Otherwise it will be pointless, and the death bell for the UK.

    • Anonymous
      Posted February 28, 2019 at 1:08 am | Permalink

      Why should Remain even be in it ?

  35. Nicholas Murphy
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    Well, it looks like there will be a second referendum, of sorts. An extension of Article 50 might well lead to us having to participate in the next EP elections. And if that happens I would expect Nigel Farage getting north of 17 million votes. The Tiggers, Momentumites, Lib Dems and Conservatives can share the rest. PR: gotta love it.

  36. R Dawson
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Sir John,I must say that I am someone to surprised that you have chosen to write today about the Labour Party.

    I would have thought the main issue at present would be the chaos within the Conservative party. It appears that having told us many times that we will leave the EU on 29 March that this will not in fact be the case.

    I do despair at the quality of our politicians, not including your good self, and quite frankly wonder whether it is worth voting at all again in the future.

  37. MickN
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    You Sir have the ability to see what Mr Corbyn’s duplicity is doing to the Labour Party. It is a shame that Mrs May and her fifth column cabinet members cannot see what theirs is doing to your party.

  38. Richard1
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    With Parliament now being able to ‘take no deal off the table’ whatever that means, the. EU clearly has no reason to change anything in the WA. Therefore Brexit will be postponed until June 30. This is a clever wheeze – it’s the last date before which a postponement will mean new UK MEPs. But by 30 June the EP elections will have been and gone. So the next step will be a further postponement – with one of those rule changes which are easy enough when the EU wants them – until Dec 2020.

    I think we may as well be members until Dec 20 as the transition period has no advantages over membership. So for there to be any chance of Brexit, mrs may will have to be ditched by some means this summer and then we go back to the drawing board, with a new PM, and offer a choice to the EU of a comprehensive FTA, inc goods and services, or WTO Brexit from jan 21.

    • William
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

      How would Mrs May be got rid of by the Summer? Conservative MPs voted for her to stay in her post long beyond that.

  39. Alastair Harris
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Labour are certainly in a mess but this is just displacement. I can’t bring myself to support a party of government that reneges on a central manifesto commitment. That would be May’s government. Given that I live in Derby and probably embody “middle” England, as a professional and a family man, that should send shivers down the spine of conservative central office. If a Party properly committed to brexit fields a candidate in Derby I will vote for it.

  40. Original Richard
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    There is no doubt that Labour will be losing a lot of voters in the Midlands and the North because of its remain stance.

    A position which is strange given that it is now seen to be supporting the views of the banks, the corporates, the hedge funds, the elites and not those of the workers they say they represent.

    But Labour’s main problem is its support for organisations such as Hezbollah and as a result many people do not want Mr. Corbyn to be the PM.

    It needs to be remembered that Labour is the only major political party whose senior members are happy to attend gender segregated political meetings.

  41. Dominic
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    The collapse of Labour
    By johnredwood | Published: February 27, 2019

    Should read

    The Collapse of British democracy
    By johnredwood | Published: February 27, 2019

    This country is on the verge of quasi authoritarianism. We have the Tories that have embraced State control in all its forms. Dissent is slowly being crushed. And Labour’s now beholden to a religious creed.

    Very sinister and very disturbing. The people yearn for a true democrat to lead us into a new world in which individualism, democracy, freedom and decency take precedence over politicisation and state domination

  42. Everhopeful
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Really.
    The only problem with a second Referendum is that ….
    That is not how democracy works!!
    How could it?
    Take a reality check.
    It is the well used trick of the EU.
    We have seen it done to other countries so we are wiser.
    It just won’t wash!

    • Len Grinds
      Posted February 28, 2019 at 6:34 am | Permalink

      Really? So people voting for things is not how democracy works? How does it work, then?

      • NickC
        Posted February 28, 2019 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

        Len Grinds, I take it that you accept the 2016 Referendum decision to leave the EU treaties, then? So why have a repeat?

        What makes your repeat vote valid where the first (2016) vote wasn’t? If the question is to be your Theresa May’s dWA Remain vs leave on WTO terms, then bring it on. If it is to be a choice between May’s dWA Remain vs Remain, that is no choice, and is a cheat.

  43. Bob
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    “If I was an MP, I’d be quietly preparing for an election. Clear the caseworker. Get some leaflets out. Own the local agenda. Oh, and I’d make damn sure I’d worked out where I stood on an broken manifesto promises because trust is going to be the big factor…..”

    Douglas Carswell

  44. Brigham
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Labour is finished, and in my opinion all the MP’s who voted remain in the tory party are also finished. Nigel for the next PM?

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

      @Brigham. Farage for PM? I do hope so. I can’t wait for a general election when hopefully we will see the demise of all three anti Democratic parties and see their MP’s consigned to the gutter where they belong. Long live Nigel. Bring it on.

  45. Chris
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Jacob R-M is reported in D Tel online this morning as saying he could vote for May’s deal, even if no changes to the WA. You could not make this stuff up.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/27/brexit-latest-newstheresa-may-tells-parliament-do-duty-support/
    “In a significant boost for the Prime Minister, Mr Rees-Mogg said he “could live” with a “de facto” removal of the backstop in the form of an “appendix”, which would clarify that the UK cannot be trapped in the arrangement indefinitely….”

  46. agricola
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    As previously stated the shyster politicians of the HoC still clutter our airwaves abetted by media outlets discussing the elephant in the room to no moral end. The second referendum peddlers continue to spout their rubbish. 2nd referendums are a standard EU tactic aimed at talking out democracy. When will MPs realise their responsibilities. Do we have to wait a few more years before nailing them at the ballot box.

  47. Gary C
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    You couldn’t make this up, both main party’s are destroying their selves due to their desire to destroy democracy.

    And to think it’s our fault for voting in such a pathetic shower, hopefully the next GE will see many of them gone.

  48. Wiliam Long
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    I agree with your comments about Labour, but sadly the Conservative Party seems in an equal mess, except that it is not tarred with the anti-semitic brush. Mrs May has now given up the struggle and has placed the process firmly in the Remain hands of Rudd, Gauke, Clark and Oliver Leftwing. Surely if May meant any of the things she has said in the oast she should now resign.

  49. Norman
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Spot on JR, and take heart! This latest turn of events in the Opposition ranks is most helpful to our cause, and we out here in the country should be grateful for it, rather than trying to trash the government. The PM surely now can breathe a little more easily if a ‘No Deal’ outcome should come into view. She has, after all, always refused to rule it out, and has rightly always been against a second referendum or a delay beyond the 29 March 2019. Good for her! Let us now hope that the best efforts of the ERG, and the general turn of events, will see off the fatally flawed WA, Only outwith the thraldom of the EU, may UK-healthy negotiations at last commence.

    • Mark B
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

      She has said a lot of things. Only to change her mind at the last minute. You clearly haven’t been following.

  50. agricola
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    How do the Mystic Megs account for the rise in Sterling during the last few days. How long before the CBI starts whinging.

  51. Chris
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    The full text of a letter from Gavin Barwell, Chief of Staff, to Theresa May (posted on ConsHome website) reveals the thinking/tactics related to getting the WA through Parliament. It refers to the split in the ERG and how they can be dealt with and how the victory over J R-M can apparently be used to annul the commitment to step down. Apparently the DUP are being regarded as key and deserving of greatest attention.
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/02/the-key-is-the-dup-a-letter-to-the-prime-minister-from-her-chief-of-staff.html

    • Chris
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:23 am | Permalink

      This comment by Alan Coby on the article about Gavin Barwell letter to PM (see my above comment and link) is interesting:
      https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/02/the-key-is-the-dup-a-letter-to-the-prime-minister-from-her-chief-of-staff.html

      Alan Coby comment:
      “The ERG are already folding as Rees Mogg confirms to day and will vote for May’s
      appalling Deal with some fudged non legally binding verbiage.
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-2

      “This will be positioned by No. 10 as a tremendous victory for the unchallengeable
      Mrs May and will allow her to renege on her commitment to stand down before the
      next GE and position her to lead the Tory Party into the 2022 GE.

      As Barwell writes above in the spirit of true sycophancy :”In these circumstances
      your commitment not to lead the Party into a 2022 election would become
      otiose.” Brilliant.”……….

  52. ChrisS
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    The only possible grounds for a second referendum is if Parliament will not vote to support any possible leave option.

    Then, and only then, would it prove necessary for the people to vote again.
    However, because the decision to Leave was already decided in Referendum 1, the only logical question that should be on the Referendum 2 Ballot Paper should be whether we should leave with the PM’s Deal or No Deal.

    Efforts to hold another Referendum with Remaining in the EU on the ballot Paper are nothing more than a naked attempt to reverse the decision to leave by Die Hard Remainers. Why haven’t Brexiteers been saying this at every possible opportunity ? If they had, the calls for a second referendum from the Remain camp would by now be totally discredited.

    Whatever words come out of their mouths, the Die Hards have never accepted the democratically expressed wish of the electorate who voted by a decisive margin to Leave the EU.

    Frankly, in respect of Brexit, the likes of Blair, Clegg, Wollaston and Soubry et al are no more Democrats than Juncker and Selmayr.

  53. ferdinand
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    ” Any party which ignores the wishes and views of 17.4 million voters will struggle for support.”

    If only that were true.

  54. Chris
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    I have just glanced at Theresa May’s twitter account, and the responses to her latest tweet. Sir John, do you and your fellow MPs actually understand the depth and extent of anger and contempt that is out there?

  55. Denis Cooper
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    JR, I saw you on TV this morning and I regret having to say that the extreme “no deal would not be a problem, we could still have sensible arrangements for the planes to fly … ” view you once again expressed is one powerful reason why Theresa May has been able to get away with betraying us. I said early on that I was not bothered about paying a little over the odds when we left; and I was not bothered if we had lengthy transition periods for various changes to be gradually made after we had left; and I said in November 2017 that as the Irish government had adopted an absurd extreme and intransigent position over the land border then we should just say that for our part we would make no changes at all at that border, so goods could still flow in from the Republic across that border just as freely as now, and if any customs duties were payable we would collect them away from the border; and we should offer to pass and enforce a new UK law to prevent carriage across the border of any goods which the EU had declared to be unacceptable within its Single Market, so that there would be no need or indeed point in the Irish intercepting and inspecting incoming goods at the border; and we should say that for the present we would not be seeking any new special trade treaty, which would have only marginal net benefits for us, but rather just default to the already existing WTO treaties and propose negotiations on the technical and practical aspects of implementing trade on that new basis. That was fifteen months ago, and the proposal was not that we would have no deal at all with the EU on anything, even on keeping planes flying, just that for the time being we would not seek any special or preferential trade deal with the EU. By taking that to the extreme of no deal on anything at all Tory Brexiteers opened the door for the government to (quite correctly) represent this as a recipe for legal and practical chaos.

    • acorn
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

      Denis, I award you the Oscar for Naivety. The “leave” campaign sold you, and 17.4 million others, a pig-in-a-poke. The “leave” rich kids and their shadowy financial backers, were simply playing the Brexit game to maximise their future profits, not for your wages, state pension or benefits.

      • Anonymous
        Posted February 28, 2019 at 1:18 am | Permalink

        I expected Brexit to hurt. What I did not expect was for pain and no Brexit.

      • Edward2
        Posted February 28, 2019 at 6:30 am | Permalink

        Make your mind up acorn.
        Usually you tell us how brexit will cause catastrophe now you are telling us brexit was a plot to make the rich richer.

        • acorn
          Posted February 28, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

          And the poor poorer. Remember that a ” no deal”, “WTO rules” Brexit, as heavily promoted by the ERG rich kids; will have little impact on them.

          Reply The WTO exit means the UK will be better off

          • Edward2
            Posted February 28, 2019 at 8:50 am | Permalink

            Oh I’ve got it now acorn Brexit will make us all poorer but remarkably at the same time it will make all the rich richer.

            Is this why all the rich elite establishment are remain supporters?

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted February 28, 2019 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

        Another reply fro acorn unconnected to the comment.

  56. Atlas
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    The Remainers in Labour have never explained what is so marvellous about being run by the EU (which in practice means Germany and, to a lesser extent these days, France). Neither, for that matter, have the Remainers in the Conservative Party either.

  57. graham1946
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    The collapse of Labour. Good.

    This the handiwork of Starmer – quite why they are in thrall to him I don’t know – he was useless at the CPS. Also, the only true EU party, the Lib Dems were slaughtered when they put up their Remain manifesto so quite why Starmer reckons he can do what they couldn’t is anyone’s guess. Probably a cockeyed idea that he could be leader. Perhaps he aspires to be like Sir Vince, a big fish in a very small pool.

  58. R.S.Goodley
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    “Any party which ignores the wishes and views of 17.4 million voters will struggle for support.”

    Including the current Conservative party.

  59. Bob
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    If and when the snap election is called, I presume Mrs May will not be using the “strong & stable” message, bearing in mind she couldn’t even deal with the Cabinet members who breached the collective responsibility convention.

  60. Mark Richmond
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    I voted leave, and my personal view is that a no deal kind of Brexit, such as that advocated here, is the best way forward for a successful independent UK. I also think a second referendum is essential.

    It is true leave won the referendum, and it is also true that parties pledging to honour the referendum result overwhelmingly dominate the current parliament.

    However, it is also clear that the two main parties have very different concepts of what leaving the EU should mean, with much of Labour apparently supporting a permanent customs union and the Conservatives something along the lines of May’s deal or no deal.

    These two concepts are very different and I think it is these two kinds of Brexit that should be put to us in a second referendum. The alternative, of letting the two parties fight this out every five years, is potentially that we yo yo in and out of the customs union as governments change, an outcome that would surely be too unstable to contemplate?

  61. nshgp
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Demand that a bill is laid before parliament to fund May’s extension.

    It needs special tax called an EU tax that is separate from income tax. It needs to be clear and transparent on people’s pay slips.

    It needs to be capped and that includes borrowing to pay for it.

    The cap means that as soon as that money is collected, no more money goes to the EU and in subsidies to EU migrants in the UK

    How can remain object when its then absolutely clear what their behaviour has caused?

    My bet is they won’t like it. They want to be opaque.

  62. Denis Cooper
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    I watched most of the two hours that MPs spent yesterday listening to and interrogating Theresa May on the subject of leaving the EU:

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-02-26/debates/B5B3B17F-E96D-4093-ADE4-E5A8F4F3C58B/LeavingTheEuropeanUnion

    and a number of points came up.

    She kept saying “Northern Ireland” instead of “Irish” or “on the island of Ireland”; so the backstop was “the Northern Ireland backstop”, and any “hard border” would be “a hard border in Northern Ireland.” Again, as in previous speeches, trying to convey the false impression that this largely fabricated problem with the border is attributable to the UK and in particular Northern ireland, and not to the EU and the Irish government.

    And it was “to develop alternative arrangements to ensure the absence of a hard border in Northern Ireland” that the EU had kindly agreed “to consider”, note only “consider”, “a joint work stream” for that purpose, along with “setting up domestic structures to support this work”, and it “will all be supported by civil service resource”.

    One might ask why this was not done well over a year ago, when it must have became clear to the UK government that the new Irish government under Leo Varadkar was determined to be uncooperative and would push to keep us under the rules of the EU Customs Union and the EU Single Market even after we had left the EU. Well, of course we know that in May 2018 UK civil servants were looking very closely at how the land border between Liechtenstein and Switzerland could be kept completely open despite differing product standards on each side, but somehow we never heard any more about that.

    Consistent with Theresa May’s desire to wreck the Brexit process from the start was her persistently submissive attitude to the EU as a superior authority, despite the electorate having voted against treating the EU as a superior authority. So at least twice yesterday she not just accepted but asserted the EU’s position that it could not negotiate any future relationship with the UK while the UK was still a member state, and at least twice she said that an obstacle to progress, especially on the Irish land border, was the large number of changes to EU law which could be required:

    “One of the key issues raised by the European Union around the alternative arrangements actually relates to the significant number of derogations from European Union law that will be necessary to put the alternative arrangements in place.”

    Then, replying to a lengthy but excellent contribution from Marcus Fysh:

    “… he gives a long list of various issues in relation to the alternative arrangements at the border, some of which are precisely the issues that the European Union has raised a question over in relation to the derogations from EU law that would be required.”

    So we have the EU which belatedly insisted that there should be express provision in its treaties for a member state to make an orderly withdrawal, rather than have people claim that it was like a prison, but yet is not willing to amend its laws as a part of the process of securing an orderly withdrawal, and we have a Prime Minister whose instinct is to accept whatever the EU says without protest, and we have a majority of MPs who actually want to give the EU the power to hold us prisoner at its pleasure, until such time as it generously decided to offer a withdrawal deal which we could accept.

    • Mark B
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

      The only time your MP got cross with the EU, was when President Juncker described her as nebulous. Says it all really.

  63. bigneil
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    I demand we have a referendum on whether to have a referendum.

    • Mark B
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

      I’d settle for just a GE.

    • anon
      Posted February 28, 2019 at 1:34 am | Permalink

      All MPs infavour of a 2nd losers vote should face a by election to approve this stance.
      As should MPs seeking to avoid deselection motions.

  64. JPM
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    So much nonsense, people equating an opinion poll, or even a poll of polls, with a democratic exercise involving 35 million voters, which delivered a clear and decisive result, are both deluding themselves and attempting to delude others.

    Leave or remain, stay or go, it was a simple, binary question with no equivocation.

  65. Steve
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    JR

    Re your last paragraph.

    True enough – Labour have a bleak future, but then again the conservatives are also finished especially if there is any delay to brexit or removing ‘no deal’.

    It seems bizarre that some MP’s actually still think they’ll get votes in a general election. they’re in for a shock.

  66. BR
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    The same is true of the Conservative party, who are now reneging on their promises with May’s latest series of votes.

    These had better be non-binding, such that we can leave with WTO anyway and simply head off the remainer shenanigans in trying to take control of the executive.

    Isn’t it time the ERG marched in to her office to say ‘No more support for your tenure – we will vote against you / abstain on all non-Brexit business until you leave office’?

  67. ian wragg
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    The Conservative Party will be forever known as the party of Brussels, the party that couldn’t deliver Brexit.
    There are now 17.4 million floating voters, many of whom wish ill on both Labour and Conservative MPs.
    It will be a bloodbath if as I suspect May calls an early election.

    • Captain Peacock
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

      It was her plan all along she was prepared to destroy her own party to keep us slaves of the EU. She will then resign and move on to the ‘speaking circuit’ where her rewards will be collected.

    • Mark B
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

      And the party that took the UK, without a referendum or a manifesto promise, into the then EEC.

  68. Shieldsman
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Mayday Mayday the International Distress call.
    The Public are just about ready to make to it. With the H o C in chaos, our MP puppets have lost their Puppet-Masters. The would be leaders have their heads down in the bunker.

    Try reading: May is marching on but doesn’t have a map. The times February 25 2019

  69. Den
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    First of all, what would be the point of a second referendum? What would the wording be this time? Especially when the 2016 question asked was very clear. “Do you wish to Remain in or Leave the EU”. And here we are, two years and eight months further on and still we remain in the EU. And there is now talk of extension? why? What will change?
    John announces “The Collapse of Labour”.
    After the reports today that Mrs May has outrageously capitulated to her Remainer Cabinet over the No Deal option being cancelled, I confidently predict that the same will happen to the Conservative Party should the decision of the people in 2016 not be honoured.
    Especially as it was promised by the then Government and the whole of Parliament since.
    It is time the True Blue Conservative members made a firm stand against this self-serving Remainer Cabinet for they are seeking to betray British democracy and that would invite anarchy.

  70. Ian
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Well there you have it,
    Probably the best way to get the Remainers in Parliament,Out is a General Election.
    So how can that be started?
    Sir John, if you could answer that for us please, this would give the people of this Country, a Referendum, and at the same time be rid of a lot of the Remainers in The House ?

  71. The Prangwizard
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    For those Tory MP”s who would like to see an end to May’s leadership and Premiership but are frustrated by the constitution and claim thus that nothing can be done, I have a suggestion.

    Instead of turning up like lapdogs at PM’s questions cheering her on hypocritically and on other occasions when she is in the House, stay away. Do it as a group, make a point of it. Show some solidarity with us, the people and what we voted for.

    • Phil_Richmond
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

      Well said. At the end of the day though even the MPs we admire don’t really care that much. They are not going to risk anything for the people. The two main parties have to be destroyed one way or the other.

  72. Denis Cooper
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Look at this rubbish, being actively spread around by a Tory government led by a lair, cheat, hypocrite and traitor who has planned to wreck Brexit from the very start:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/102130/no-deal-brexit-would-lead-food-shortages-and-cost

    “No-deal Brexit would lead to food shortages and cost business billions, government reveals”

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

      Right from the very start, when she took up the vile suggestion from Sir Ivan Rogers that well-behaved EU citizens who were already legally settled in this country should be used as bargaining chips, an issue which is still taking up a hundred times more time and effort than it should have done:

      https://order-order.com/2019/02/27/sajids-amendment-confusion/

      “The Home Secretary appeared quite surprised when taking questions from the Home Affairs Select Committee, when he learned that the Prime Minister had signalled opposition to the Costa amendment, which would guarantee EU citizens rights under no-deal. Especially as the Prime Minister had already guaranteed them …

      Government sources tell Guido that Sajid is right on this one, and that they support the ambition of the amendment, although they haven’t yet revealed whether or not they will be backing Alberto Costa’s specific amendment. Backing it would be obvious decision. It is overwhelmingly likely to pass with or without Government support. Equivocating on this in the first place was a terrible call from the PM…”

      Or, just the first of many excellent calls from the point of view of somebody who was always determined to stab us in the back.

      • NickC
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

        Denis Cooper, My reading of the Vienna Convention is that both EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the rEU are already protected.

        Vienna Art 70 “1. Unless the treaty otherwise provides or the parties otherwise agree, the termination of a treaty under its provisions or in accordance with the present Convention:
        (a) Releases the parties from any obligation further to perform the treaty;
        (b) Does not affect any right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination.”

        So living in another country, prior to termination, is a right created by the EU treaties when in force, which cannot be removed after termination.

    • Captain Peacock
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

      They remained quite when the EU were giving grants for UK companies to move production to other EU countries.
      Just a small example Cadbury , Ford Transit , Jaguar Land Rover , Peugeot , Gillette even Dyson got an EU loan to move to Malaysia.
      Then look at billions spent by the UK train companies forced to buy rolling stock from Europe, Siemens alone got £14 billion not one British job created.
      The sooner we are rid of the EU shackles the better.

  73. oldwulf
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    If Mr Corbyn had promised a clean exit from the EU I would probably have supported him on the basis that 5 years of Mr Corbyn is better than an eternity of the EU. However, it now looks as though Mr Farage beckons.

    • hefner
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

      Dame Rita Webb,
      UK. EEA. RoW
      City of London 59%. 18%. 23%. of the workers there.
      London. 59%. 14%. 26%. of the London population.
      UK. 83%. 7%. 10%. of the total UK population.
      And you know what, the 18% EEA and 23% RoW workers in the City are all cleaners … not …

      • Mark B
        Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

        And whether they are cleaners or not, they will still be allowed to work in the UK. Leaving the EU was not about getting rid of people, it was about the people of this country reasserting control via their elected representatives.

  74. Duyfken
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Although the Labour Party may have contracted a fatal illness, there are those (such as Andrew Lillico in the DT today) who fear your Party is also on a one-way course to oblivion. Perhaps that is all overstated but despite the many good Tory MPs, yourself being an outstanding example, I have lost faith in the Conservatives, and with all of the political class as well.

    Being of Conservative outlook, I had voted over the years for your Party until attracted to Jimmy Goldsmith’s Referendum Party; then I subsequently supported UKIP and of course was cheered and relieved by the referendum result. With much doubt due to the series of vacillations by the Tory honchos and by the new leader/PM, I voted for the Conservatives in 2017, there then being no Brexit-leaning candidate. The local Tory candidate and sitting MP was and is a “remainer” but I was persuaded by the Tory manifesto. How stupid!

    Surely there are countless persons who could relate a similar story and who may never vote Tory again or indeed never vote again. Whether it is the putative Brexit Party, the re-launched SDP, or other Brexit-supporting group which gains from the tide of voters deserting the present major Parties, the decline of the Conservatives appears inevitable. Terminal?

  75. margaret howard
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    JR

    ” Any party which ignores the wishes and views of 17.4 million voters will struggle for support.”

    And so will any party which ignores the wishes of 16.1 million Remain voters and especially those of Scotland with 62% remain, NIreland with 56% and not forgetting London, the powerhouse of the British economy with the world’s biggest financial centre which voted 60% Remain. You will see the destruction of Britain with just a rump England remaining. Is that what you want?

    • NickC
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

      Margaret Howard, We had a legal national Referendum with a fair question. The rules were clear: the winner was 50% plus one vote. It is not a question of “ignoring” the Remain votes – they weren’t ignored, they were counted but failed to reach the winning threshold and there was no provision for a compromise. Though in fact a compromise is not possible – a state is either in the EU or out. You’ve had it your way for 46 years. Now it’s our turn.

    • graham1946
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

      Can you give us an idea, with a binary choice, exactly how 16.1 million who voted against Brexit can be accommodated? One side has to lose in such a situation. You would rather the 17.4 million were over ruled by the 16.2 million, we know that, but how do you do it?

      • hefner
        Posted February 28, 2019 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

        Well my mother was used to say something going like: only small minds unable to think for themselves and to see the various possibilities and their consequences ask for either this or that. Does not that cover your binary choice?
        And isn’t politics the art of compromise or as a “great thinker” recently puts it: The Art of the Deal?

    • Anonymous
      Posted February 28, 2019 at 1:41 am | Permalink

      72% of voters voted in the referendum.

      38% (potential) who didn’t see the point in voting then certainly won’t be impressed enough to see the point in voting now.

      35% voted Remain and many of those will be unimpressed with the way our Remain establishment has conducted themselves.

      37% Will DEFINITELY be unimpressed.

      —-

      60% approval rating of the EU in London. Even train companies get better ratings than that !

  76. a-tracy
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    I’ve seen it all now, Theresa May being shown up to be incompetent by Jeremy Corbyn I’d laugh if it wasn’t so serious. That she is allowing the EU and JC to decide behind her back what they will [stitch up] agree to in order to soft Brexit (exit whilst tying up in without a say) is just amazing. See the letter he is sending out to all MPs on Guido. The EU have said “Labour proposals are credible, workable and could be negotiable” – as always with JC he doesn’t say at what cost!! No Deal Is BETTER than a bad deal –

    One other point he says “Our manufacturing sector is in deep recession” this is whilst we are in the EU JC!

    Just pull the A50 plug. Our MPs are about to sink us with their deceit. Then immediately pull the plug on this rotten parliament and give us another election.

  77. Phil_Richmond
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Yes John but they are not in Government. Your Party is and they have completely betrayed us. I have never been so angry in my life.
    Do you not realise that us conservative members/activists / voters will now destroy this quisling excuse for a political party. My money / time is already with the Brexit Party!

  78. Richard
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Your views on Brexit are completely at odds with the Wokingham constituents. The Wokingham paper has reported the snap Brexitometer poll was out again in thw town centre a couple of weeks ago. Out of hundreds of respondents, only 1 voted for Mays deal, and a handful for your No Deal!
    All polls show the desire is now to remain. You are at odds with your constituency, the country, and your own party.

    Reply Not so. As you concede there is little support for Mrs May’s deal, and I reflected that by voting against it. I gained 57% support in the General Election on a Manifesto of taking the UK out of the EU, with or without a deal. The Lib Dem opposing Brexit and offering a second referendum came a poor thirds. There are no polls on Brexit within the Wokingham constituency, which includes parts of West Berkshire.

  79. The Prangwizard
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    One of those days. Many are incandescent with anger at the never ending betrayals of our political class and the Establishment.

    They don’t care, they think they are untouchable in our present system and they are probably right.

    I believe the people have only one answer. Some form of active resistance seeking their removal and replacement.

  80. Chris
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    I agree completely with the claim/title of an article just posted online D Tel by Andrew Lilico. See link and excerpt below. I believe that Tory Brexiter MPs including the ERG have been misguided in placing trust in Theresa May, always giving her the benefit of the doubt, and then refusing to remove her when she was shown to be utterly dishonest and intent on betraying Brexit.

    Presumably they did it to save the Cons Party. I believe it was crystal clear that their misplaced trust and resultant inaction was doomed to failure, and ultimately would result in the Cons Party facing meltdown. Quite simply the voters are not going to be “had” again, and will wreak their revenge at the ballot box. Neither will the voters pay heed to the Project Fear over Corbyn. The disgraceful behaviour of the PM and the Remainers, plus the ” all talk no trousers” Tory Brexiter MPs has ensured that. The voters are not just angry, I would suggest many are absolutely furious and determined to give the Cons government/MPs a …… nose.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/27/theresa-may-has-sparked-beginning-end-conservative-party/
    Theresa May has sparked the beginning of the end for the Conservative party

    “Yesterday, for Theresa May, the prevarication was over. The appointed time of choosing was here. Was the Conservative Party to be surrendered to the likes of Margot James, Richard Harrington and Claire Perry, the three fearsomely pro-Remain ministers who had threatened to resign if she didn’t take no-deal off the table?

    Or was it to be the party of its mainstream members, over 70 per cent of whom want to leave the EU either with no deal or with a straightforward Free Trade Agreement? People like me. People like the 117 MPs who voted against Theresa May in December’s no confidence vote.

    In the end she sided with the Remainer MPs, a group whose obsession with remaining in the EU at all costs …”

  81. Fay
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    John, the BBC must be stopped. Todays headline news is just slandering everyone they dont like, All they do is report someone said and they run it as top story. Trump is a racist, liar and cheat it top story followed by Labour are anti semetic. This has to stop John. Surely you can see what they are doing. This is PURE propaganda news TV.

  82. Fay
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Well now we know for sure May is a traitor. I was hoping she was only pretending to be to fool the EU, but no, its our worst nightmare. We have the EU is PM.

  83. Denis Cooper
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    That Tory twerp Nick Boles would do well to listen to Keir Starmer talking about the nature of the customs border between Norway (EFTA/EEA) and Sweden (EU/EEA), which the Irish government categorically rejected back in November 2017.

    But then as I understand what he went on to say it transpires that in the detail of the political declaration Theresa May has agreed to overcome that little problem by means of a permanent customs arrangement which would in effect be a permanent customs union by another name.

    And yet she claims that the UK would still be able to have an independent trade policy – which is more or less the same nonsense espoused by Labour.

    This woman, my MP, cannot be trusted a bloody inch, can she; and although it made no practical difference I curse the day when I decided to break my longstanding habit and trust her and vote for her in the 2017 general election – a mistake I will never make again for any Tory candidate in any election at any level.

    • Alan Joyce
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

      Dear Mr. Redwood,

      Denis Cooper,

      Hear, hear!

  84. Fay
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    BBC news top two stories today are Trump is a racist and Labour are racists. I am not joking, turn on the TV and see for yourself.

    This is news? Just calling everyone they dont like racists by finding someone they can quote?

  85. Phil
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Dear John,

    Long-term reader, first-time commenter here.

    Thank you for your tireless efforts to restore Britain’s sovereignty and democracy. I’m sorry there aren’t a couple of hundred more MP’s like you.

    I wanted to share a thought with you:

    It seems to me that the real danger to Brexit isn’t Mrs May and her fellow Parliamentary Remainers cancelling Article 50. Doesn’t mean they won’t, of course, but the cause of Brexit would likely survive such a betrayal. We’d simply fight another day.

    The real danger to Brexit is that sufficient numbers of Leave MP’s might be gaslit and bullied into voting for some version of the EU’s NeverExit plan, giving us all of the disadvantages of Remain and none of the benefits of Leave, but sold to the public as “Brexit”.

    Like the assassins of Julius Caesar, they daren’t plunge the knife by themselves – they want *your* fingerprints on it too.

    That would be a strategic disaster for the campaign for a sovereign Britain. It would forever destroy the moral and political authority which MP’s who respect the referendum result currently have. It would leave them in a very difficult position once this fake “Brexit” turns out to be a horrible disappointment.

    I hope the ERG is aware of this danger, and holds its nerve. This is a time for courage.

  86. John Dodds
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    Has any other politician been so blatantly lying and generally deceitful as the woman who was thrust upon as Prime Minister.As for her “Cabinet”,with the exception of those Ministers who were honest enough to resign,they are as much to blame for accepting her total dishonesty.Despite being shocked by the fact that a Remainer had been mysteriously appointed as Prime Minister,having listened to her pious declaration at the door to No.10,she was misguidedly given the benefit of the doubt that she would honour the result of the Referendum.Subsequent speeches in similar vain were trotted out to sustain the belief that she was acting honestly.The facade cracked when it was revealed that she had appointed a Civil Servant to totally undermine the efforts of the Minister and staff appointed to arrange for our departure from the EU.Since then it has been one deceitful act after another with the ultimate aim of Brexit in name only.

  87. Iain Gill
    Posted February 27, 2019 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    Funny I’ve been looking at what a wide variety of people have been saying, people like Dave Nellist, Tommy Robinson, so many. From completely different places in the political spectrum. They are all saying a lot of things that are blindingly obvious.

    Its not good that we are being sheltered from hearing these wide range of views by the likes of Facebook kicking off people they dont like, Amazon not selling some books, the BBC giving very narrow sets of views.

    I am coming to the conclusion part of what we need is a radical empowerment of free speech in the UK, and change the law to make free speech much more of a reality.

    We would all benefit from hearing a wider set of views, and the spoon feeding of the liberal elite ideology is wearing rather thin.

    The British people are brighter and more sensible than the elite that presume to dictate to us what we should think. It looks like the complete disregard for the Brexit vote by the political and journalistic bubble will cause great strain as its so obviously anti democratic.

    I just hope common sense prevails.

    • rose
      Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

      I couldn’t help noticing the timing of Tommy’s banishment from Facebook and Instagram: just before we are finally betrayed. They must be terrified.

      • Iain Gill
        Posted February 28, 2019 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

        Suzanne Evans has been deplatformed too.

        Its almost as if the liberal elite are determined to limit the views we are allowed to hear.

        I dont support Tommy Robinson, but when he says Amazon will sell Hitlers book but not mine, he has a rather good point

        • rose
          Posted March 1, 2019 at 1:43 am | Permalink

          I am sorry to say there is some poetic justice in Suzanne Evans’s appalling treatment as she was one of the first to stereotype Tommy in the manner of the intolerant left. Conservatives should stick together and not dissociate themselves from one another in the hope of appeasing the Left. It never works. They should instead take on the Left and challenge them every time they silence someone who isn’t breaking the law, no matter who that someone is. After all, free speech isn’t to protect one’s friends, it is for one’s enemies, as was well understood in the 18th century, but not now.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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